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@@GYGOtv can you please tell srs that there joystick input dont work more then 10 degrees on my yaw 2 pro.i bought the prescription just forn this and marcello dont answer emails so am about to give upp the prescrription because of this:/ i think it is codec inn only 20 degress of yaw axes freedom for dof.please help before i unsusubscripe it.
I think they will figure something out now that they are finally looking at the motors/gears etc. They did a great job of working the other problem when they added the magnetic brake to stop the rig from moving, so I have confidence they will figure something out for the cogging too. Thanks for watching.
Awesome video and very informative. My two cents on the cogging. I never noticed for years until after hearing so much about cogging I tried to feel it and once I did I can't un feel it. Here are the reasons I had a hard time feeling it and, in a way, could be a band aid fix for many. I'm a private pilot and want to feel all the bumps on the runway and in the air. I was so glad when msfs finally got the turbulence closer to real life. When landing, tree top level is when you feel the most turbulence on landing in real life, above 1500 feet it smooths out and higher the better in nice weather. Everyone should take one flight lesson just to know how it really feels in a plane. Flying is extremely smooth once in smooth air. I've also had to brace one hand on the roof of the plane so my head would not hit it from turbulence. Ok so here is what works for me and I did this for my personal preference and not to smooth out the cogging, that was added benefit. I have everything turned up, I mean everything, turbo, etc (no smoothing). I have yaw slightly down more because its harder to keep straight on a runway with it jigging back and forth also so the frame won't hit the actuator rods. Second thing and maybe most important is the placement of my Butt kicker. I removed an adjustment knob that reclines my seat and attached it directly to the metal plate on the side of my seat. I can feel the vibrations so much better than attaching to the frame (night and day difference) and it helps with overheating (you can turn it down). I have the h6 with the sfu upgrade and I don't use the struts. Hope this helps others until we get a real fix. I'm so grateful that dofreality produced a 6 dof that I could afford. I've had mine for four years. I only fly in mine and don't car race due to the large panel with instruments attached to it. I rarely fly the airliners and a person might feel the cogging a bit more in a airliner.
Thanks so much for giving your tips, I hope they help someone too. I laugh when you mention turning down the yaw so it doesn't hit the frame... I had to do that on the Sway or mine hits (I keep sway at 50% on everything). I'm with you on the 6 DOF at an affordable price, never thought I'd be able to afford a system like this so once again THANK YOU IGOR! Appreciate the comment and the view!
@@likes2flyWe cut away all the clearance issues we had with the yoke mount already (had to trim the bottoms of the legs off). My clearance issues are now between the cradle framework and the movement arm rods, and I don't think I can cut either of those away and still have a working platform :) Also it is important to note that we flipped those triangles around to add 2 degrees more movement than stock and that is the cause of our problems, it is self inflicted for sure. The stock installation of the triangles as it comes from DOF keeps the rig from having this problem. Thanks for the reply.
Hello likes2fly, I should be getting my h6 monday morning 2/12, been having issues with Fedex for weeks. Anyways when I am up and running, might we do multiplayer sometime, if your game ?
Thanks for watching Dave, one of these days when you can drag yourself away from your awesome DIY Rig... We'd love to include you on the interview roundtable. Let's keep in touch.
That was a risky question and I didn't know for sure what the answer would be . I was more than willing to admit my mistake but as it turns out I got this one right... Steve's gonna be mad :)
Great interview mate........re cogging, one of the ways I use to somewhat decrease the incidence of cogging (it does NOT completely remove it but in my subjective view it definitely helps) is to set up a %nn dead zone on the three axis of my joystick in MSFS2020 Control Options.
BTW mate....did I hear correct when Igor said they are shipping around a 1000 units per month,,,,,,have been rewatching interview but cannot relocate that mention @@GYGOtv
A fascinating insight by two legends in this genre, what more could you ask for? I really enjoyed this one, please do more! :) Oh and as for the correct way to say ''D.O.F'' Reality, I've made a mental note, although I can't promise I'll say it correctly in my future videos, blame it on old age or something😅
OLD AGE... you are probably the youngest of the bunch :) Thanks for watching and we plan to do one a month and see how it goes. It looks like people want to see this in a Livestream Format so that should be interesting as well. At some point I'd love to have you as a guest to talk about your "user experience" so let me know if you'd be open to that. Thanks as always for keeping an eye on my channel... From one "legend" to another, I really appreciate it!
Great video, thanks Mark! Just got a P6, and I‘m totally flashed after the first couple of flights. I‘d be interested in a monthly or bi-monthly feed from Igor with the latest DOF news. Live would be great, but not really necessary. Thanks again for making al this information available to the community!
Congrats on the P6, glad you are liking it. Looks like by the poll that people want a Livestream so we will look at doing that next month. Thanks for watching and you are welcome for the info, I love this community and am happy to help.
Great video as always Mark! I'm not a platform user myself, but this video has me hyped for those who use these rigs for VR. Heck, this may get me into more sims...
Anytime you want to start let me know... I think you would like Elite Dangerous and I know some of your viewers did from when I talked to them in your chat. Also I think you mis-wrote your comment... it should be "I'm not a platform user myself YET" :) Just give it time LOL Thanks for stopping by!
Thank you so much for doing these interviews with Igor. I've been a long time H6 user who was a very early SFU adopter. I've been on the fence with doing Robert's mod so I really appreciate you addressing the current cogging issue with Igor while also touching on the subject of the mod with Igor. I felt the biggest concern is noise but for a single guy with a house, that's not a concern for me. I am curious to the durability of the motors as my rig setup is quite heavy with a SimXperience G Seat attached but from all I can find the mod motors should be able to handle it without the dampening kit I need now with the DOF motors. Again this was very helpful. Think I'm gonna try the mod & see how it works. Hopefully DOF will have developed something in the future to resolve this issue that I can fall back to if the mod doesn't pan out.
Hi curtisjackson, glad you are enjoying the interviews. Unless the cogging is driving you insane to the point you can't stand another minute with it you might hold off a bit on Robert's Mod in my opinion. I think that $600+ you would spend for it might be better spent on another option that should be coming down the road. I'm going to do a video on our experience with Robert's mod soon and I also have something else we are going to try after that. That is all I can say for now but I do feel confident DOF will come up with an option that will be less noisy and last longer than Robert's will. Stay tuned for more on this down the road.
Glad to hear there is a solution in the future to some of the performance concerns! I will say though as a rally guy who did the mod... Pretty sure it throws me around really good, running it at 400kp right now
Wow you are BRAVE... I was originally scared to go past 300 as it was getting pretty violent at that setting. I didn't try rally but I did try road racing and it felt pretty similar to me as the old motors when I had it set at 315Kp. Good to know the Rally is good as well. Thanks for the feedback and the comment!
Hello Mark, It's Darryl, my H6 is a couple towns over and should be here monday the 12th. Anyways listening to your conversation with Igor, pertaining to the clogging issue, trying to slow down motors but still have torque. increase the number of threads on the worm gear, otherwise known as going from a course thread to a finer thread. A minor motor speed reduction would have same effect as slowing speed down alot without loosing torque. My opinion. Pass it on to Igor if you wish.
LOL, that is a GREAT idea... I don't think I need to pass it along to Igor if you catch my drift... That is all I can say right now but thanks for the suggestion.
Thanx again for the discount count, saved me a fortune on P&P. The VAT from Poland to UK was £290. Just humped the two boxes up the stairs, poor DHL driver. Just found out the other day that my 4090TI won't fit my case. Why do they make cases so small nowadays?
You are Very Welcome, thanks for using it to also help support the channel! Now the fun begins, please keep me updated how your build goes and also how you like it. As for your PC, some might also ask why are they making Video Cards SO BIG nowadays LOL. That is why I still buy Tower Cases for my PC builds, it looks weird with all these small boards in this giant case BUT it does keep from having issues with stuff fitting most of the time. Is it a problem with the length, the depth or both? I hope you can sort it out because the 4090 is an AWESOME card! Good Luck!
@@GYGOtv It's a problem with the Corsair iCUE Radiator, I couldn't top mount it, had to front mount it and the fans stop me installing the 4090. I had coolermaster stacker, and an Obsidian 650D, both cases were not suited for the Corsair rad. I was thinking about asking Corsair which case they could recommend. Thanx for the reply. All the best for now.
The question that wasn’t asked is “This new motor fix they are testing for the cogging mean there will there be a backwards compatible version to fit old models or will a whole new motion be required?” and “Will the new motors be offered to people like me who found out about the cogging after purchase at a discounted price?” Just to be clear it doesn’t make it unusable and as there was no fix that I was happy in doing, to continue using VR I had no real option but to live with it, this is because I suffer with VR motion sickness and without the DOF reality motion I can’t use VR for flight simulator for any length of time without feeling ill.
I think that is a great question johnboy, but I think they need to see what solution works before they worry about the details of backward compatibility, pricing etc. Kind of putting the cart before the horse at this point. It is certainly something we can ask on the livestream hypothetically but not sure Igor will have an answer yet. I'll try to keep this in mind for the next one. Thanks for the question.
Not yet... hoping to have a Livestream with Igor sometime soon. I'm excited to find out the news too so stay tuned and I'll let you all know when I do. :)
Very interesting. It would be very good to know in term of evolution if there is any plan from DOF Reality to propose an solution to be compatible with Forced Feedback base such as FFB Rhino. FFB base are becoming increasingly more popular, but they are very tall compared to standard joystick base, especially if used in conjunction with a stick extension. It would require either to raise significantly the seat or to change the shape of the backbone structure to allow lower attachment point for the base. As of today users are forced to decide either to go for a FFB base or to go for DOF motion platform, while it shall be possible to have both.
Hey youtch666, this topic has been raised by others as well. I plan to ask Igor about it today but if you have the time, feel free to join us on the Livestream in a few hours and you can ask him as well. To me, I think the controller manufacturer should have to adapt to the DOF instead of the other way around. There is a lot to getting the platform to work right (balance, clearance, etc.) and to me adding adapting to controllers seems unfair to DOF... but that is just my opinion. We will see what Igor says.
@@GYGOtv thanks for your answer, much appreciated. The issue here is that the FFB controller manufacturer cannot do anything. The base needs to be located centrally between the legs to function. The problem is how DOF reality designed the backbone structure of the platform where the seat and the controller base are at the exact same height, only the pedals are at a lower level. Hence the 15cm thickness of the seat cannot compensate for the 50 to 60cm height of the ffb base plus extension, and the grip will end up in a very high position compared to the body. There are only 2 solutions, find a way to lower the connection of the ffb base or make the seat higher.
Thanks for watching! This video was such a hit that we are now doing a monthly Livestream Series with Igor and also Jeff Weaver from SRS. You can check them out here if you are interested. ua-cam.com/play/PLQLoIjq0cB4fxDKwYHwzpS1KjKLT5hC1b.html&si=Y-DkVxvIr1zkOsm8
@@Wildavismedia Congrats on your imminent H2 purchase!!! I hope you get as much enjoyment out of it as I have on mine. Yes currently the code in this video will work so I really appreciate you using it! Let me know if you have any questions or if there is anything else I can help you with, and welcome to this awesome motion simulator world!
Thanks for the interview, it was very interesting to hear Igor's detailed thoughts on the Cogging issue. It's quite true that it's only a problem with flight sims with GA and other slow turning aircraft. All of my DOF rigs have performed excellently with driving sims and rollercoasters, even with the original worm gearboxes. So the jerkiness during slow flight sim movements has always been my only regret with DOF rigs. I bought my H3 several years ago with the original worm gearboxes and was unhappy with the jerks in GA flight sims, caused then mainly by the worm gear lash. Then the SFU upgrades became available were a vast improvement overall, but as Igor said, that made the slow rev DC motor cogging more apparent because of the increased precision. I was able to significantly reduce the effect by simply moving the vertical pushrods to the innermost holes of the SFU lever arms, effectively down gearing the movement by about 2:1, and I put a video on tube illustrating how smooth it then was with a C172 in xPlane. It did unfortunately also reduce the maximum angular range by the same amount, but for me that was a small downside, because the maximum angular movement of the H3/P3 was ample anyway with the new SFU gearboxes. Here's my UA-cam video showing that mod: ua-cam.com/video/JoyJZqJ69dk/v-deo.html ...but then the lure of the H6 was too great, with it's ability to heave and sway, so I upgraded to an H6 SFU. Unfortunately this brought the cogging back, and my simple solution of moving the pushrods on the SFU lever arms was no longer feasible, because of the triangular extension plates. When Robert published his planetary motor mod I was able to fit it quite easily because I have a lathe and was able to modify the old worm gearbox flanges myself. Here's my youtube video comparing the direct drive motors with the planetary motors while I was changing them over on my H6: ua-cam.com/video/2UgRFU_gGGw/v-deo.html I'm still very pleased with the result. All flight movements in xPlane and MsFs are now perfectly smooth, even during autopilot micro-movements. It does indeed reduce the rapidity of movements in driving sims and things like rollercoasters, but not to the extent of spoiling them IMHO. Here's a youtube video of Dirt Rally with the planetary motors, and without even changing the KP setting in SRS, showing ample rapid movement: ua-cam.com/video/mnoVqPd8pdg/v-deo.html (The motors sound loud in this video because the microphone was in the camera showing a closeup of the motots, only a few inches away from them). The aspect of the increase in noise level is very subjective though. My wife is mostly very tolerant of my toys, but I soon found that my Buttkicker was a No No, whereas she hasn't even noticed the planetary motor noise from outside the room. I agree the one thing that's an unknown for me is the longevity of the gears, which Igor seemed to be the most focussed on. I've only had about 30 hours so far, and that's mostly with gentle GA and Heli movements, though I have also had many AC and Dirt rally sessions. I'm an ex mechanical and electrical engineer, so I have some understanding of this subject and I readilly admit that the original DOF direct drive motors have no wearing parts other than the shaft bushes and carbon brushes, so would have an almost unlimited lifespan even with continuous use with possibly just rare brush replacements. It's true that planetary gearbox motors are available with a wide range of durability, some even only have nylon gears, but the Phidgets motors have all steel gears and rated torque of 10kg/cm, which is slightly higher than the original direct drive motors. Tha fact that you can hear them is not necessarily an indication of wear or imminent failure because all straight cut gears are audible anyway. I would have thought that a possible solution to cogging would be to use higher ratio SFU screw shafts, like conventional linear actuators. This would increase motor revs per degree of linear lift without introducing additional gear trains. ...anyhow, I'm still very impressed with all of my DOF reality purchases, and even with hindsight I'd have made the same choices again.
First and foremost THANK YOU so much for writing such a well worded and thought out comment, I'm honored to have people like you watching my channel and I really appreciate the time you took to write all this out, 1000 times thank you! BTW, your idea of higher ratio SFU screw shafts is a FANTASTIC idea... I can't really comment more than that but you are a very smart person (I'll leave it at that for now). If you don't mind me asking, what did you set your final Kp to with Robert's Mod? I'm at 315 and it is pretty close to what I felt with the stock DOF Motors just as reference. I have one final request if you are game... I want to do a video on cogging and since you have been here since the old wormgear days, I'd love to talk to you more one on one for that video and maybe get a better understanding myself of what is happening. If you don't mind, please email me at the contact info in the description if you wouldn't mind spending a few minutes on the phone to let me bend your ear a bit. Thank you again for the amazing comment and thanks for watching our channel!
Hi, Motion platforms is a new world for me. I fly in VR with MSFS2020. And movement is the next level of sim experience. I have seen all of Mark's videos and they are very educational. But ... as long as the 'Cogging' problem is not solved, I will not order anything from D.O.F. Reality ...
Thanks for watching! Just to give you my 2 cents... in the big scheme of things the "cogging" problem is a minor issue in the overall grand scheme of what the motion platform brings to the immersion. There are other rigs on the market can give you a "cog free" experience BUT you are looking at paying at least double the price of the DOF unit if not more. That being said, the cogging does bother some folks a lot more than it ever bothered me and I understand that. The good news is DOF Reality has this problem in their sights now and I think they will figure something out very soon. They came up with a great solution with the magnetic brakes to fix the movement issues when "stopping" the platform with the SFU gearboxes... and I'm confident they will sort this out too. So the good news for you is you are getting into this hobby at just about the right time. Just give it a little more time and I think you will have everything you want from DOF! Appreciate the comment.
@@GYGOtv Interesting answer! So I'm going to wait a little longer before ordering anything and I look forward to your next video (with Igor). Hmm.... is it DOF or D.O.F.?☺😉
@@clementstals1574Glad you enjoyed that! I don't think you will be waiting a really long time, stay tuned and we will keep track of the changes at D.O.F. :)
Just got into DCS and awaiting a shipment from Ukraine .....DOF Reality P3. My setup is for the F18 since it's the most training I have had in real life. The current attachments are the Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS with the F18 stick, Pimax Crystal. Challenges have been shipping (Alaska) and finding items like the chair and other items I plan to get like winging MIP (VR) panels and Buttkicker seem to be an issue. Motion Compensation is also something I am looking into. AMD doesn't play nice with Pimax but I am willing to sacrifice the time to reset the crystal a few times just to avoid Nvidia. Slava Ukraine 🇺🇦
Congrats on your purchase... I think you are really going to enjoy it (especially the Carrier stuff). If you are interested I have several videos on the channel with my F-18 outings. I highly recommend the DCS Super Carrier Module if you don't have it yet. Motion compensation is a topic I've been working on for awhile. With the P3 you should be fine with the Witmotion setup www.simracingstudio.com/forum/motion-profiles-1/sim-racing-studio-motion-compensation-guide (choose if you are doing OpenVR or OpenXR, they use slightly different software). That will save you the hassle of trying to isolate the vibration from the tracker. If you have any questions I can help you with, just let me know and thanks for watching.
My worst and expensive mistake until COG is fixed… no airplane flies like this. No UA-camr was serious about this obvious vibration, “so good , so smooth” are you serious…??? Are you being paid?? … what a mess of a RIG. A solution for it is urgent, or I truly want my money back…
Sorry you feel that way. Have you tried adding a transducer... I hardly feel the cogging with it and that is why I say it is not an issue for me. I believe the "smooth" comment was in regards to "Robert's Mod" and it was so smooth that I hardly noticed the movement. Check out my full review of it here if you haven't yet ua-cam.com/video/yfFrWXB1ln4/v-deo.html. And no DOF doesn't pay me to say these things... it is how I honestly feel. You can always buy an actuator rig for at least 2X the money or more if it really is that important to you. Sorry you regret your purchase.
@@GYGOtv Of courseI I regret my buy. No airplane flies like this, GA, glider, fighter or whatever… And yes I am a professional pilot. How can I send this thing back? Is not even an option, is it? Dismount the thing, boxed and put it in mail!!!???? This is no joke… what it is, is a very expensive mistake. Now is just an object, definably not a decent fly sim RG. Trash
@@GYGOtvAnd if you UA-camrs were serious in your reviews I would never buy this RIG. “SO SMOOTH SO WHATEVER” is definably not true… so guess what I think about you bloggers. Regards to you all…. 👎
@@ricardograde5134You'd have to talk to DOF Reality about returning it, I don't work for them. I'd recommend you'd probably be better off posting it for sale on the DOF Motion Builder's Facebook page. I bet you would sell it rather quickly there.
@@ricardograde5134You are welcome to your opinion, I would buy mine all over again in a heartbeat. One of the best purchases I ever made, and that is my opinion.
Through your older video and discount code I decided to give it a try. As soon as I bought it, they invalidate the codes and dropped the price by more than $500😮, What a joke
Well thanks for using the code, so in the end you did save some money with the old code but not as much as their discount? They do run specials from time to time, was that the case here?
@@GYGOtv Just like a outlet’s village, people who buy at full price are treated as fools. But at least the code can be of some benefit to the channel 😊
Hi Mark and Igor, Many thanks for this informative interview. Just starting out on building a flight simulator. Motion sim with VR is my ultimate goal. I have a question about the motion in your sim if I may. I just watched this ua-cam.com/video/hjtLhEAtilA/v-deo.htmlsi=wxAwCWld902gxoAH video and it occurred to me that when you are turning for your second attempt at landing, your body is tilted and you are attempting to keep your head level. This seems unnatural to me. I would have thought that in a coordinated turn the forces on your body would be more or less pushing you down into the seat. As such I would expect the motion rig to be horizontal with you tipped back a bit to simulate the downward force? Do you know if the SRS driver uses any of the techniques described in this video? ua-cam.com/video/pfTdJD2OakA/v-deo.htmlsi=NDo5Zj26mvdNEBPO Thanks again for your great channel. Kind regards, Chris Williams, UK
Hi Chris, thanks for the question. So the DOF Reality basically can be set to follow the principals from that video for the most part. Actually you can set the DOF to do pretty much whatever you want, you can invert axis and adjust how quick and fast things move all in the SRS Software. If you are interested in all this, Jeff Weaver and I have a 2 part series where we go into all this in detail. Here is are links if you want to watch them ua-cam.com/video/pzi8G7T9p7A/v-deo.html and ua-cam.com/video/LSStkqpIX_M/v-deo.html So in that video you sent, they follow the setting that would be the "Rate" mode in the SRS Software, which is when you turn it slowly levels out even when you are still turning. Lots of people prefer this setting the the "Angle" setting which keeps the rig at the same angle the aircraft is banked at until you level out. You would need to try them out for yourself to see which one feels right for you. I personally like the "angle" setting because I do a lot of dogfighting and feeling the angle of the aircraft really helps me when I'm looking all around to see the bandit and am not looking at the gauges. But the good thing is you can set it either way to your preference. We talked a little more about this in our last livestream if you want to know more (ua-cam.com/video/7zJdbN76ArE/v-deo.html) The only thing that the DOF doesn't really do compared to that video you sent is blend the pitch and the surge axis for acceleration/deceleration. In the video they show when they accelerate, they pitch back and then surge forward... in the DOF you would only surge without the pitch to feel like you were being pushed into the seat so to me it feels wrong that way. For me the chair needs to surge backward on acceleration and forward on deceleration, but again you can set it either way. As for what you see in my video, me tilting my body and keeping my head level is just a natural reaction to the movement and I'm doing it unconsciously so it is about as "natural" as it can be. One thing a lot of people do is add belts to the rig which keeps their torso from leaning like I do, and the belts actually increases the feeling of motion... I just haven't done that yet because honestly it doesn't bother me very much. So I hope that answers your question, I can tell you flying in a motion platform is one of the most amazing experiences I've had and I highly recommend it... I've said over and over that the DOF was one of the best purchase decisions I've ever made. If you do decide to buy one, remember I have a discount code at the end of the videos if you want to save a few bucks. Please let me know if you have any other questions and welcome to this wonderful world of motion!
Last interview, Igor said its software issues and now its hardware limitations as we all said. So you lost my trust and my business, I went with ERacing actuators and racing cockpit pro for 4.5k total cost and it’s far superior to my P3 for flights sim.
Glad you found a simulator that fits for your needs. Just to be clear, Igor said they "thought" it was software last time and they were looking into it (and spent a lot of time and money in the process to rule it out). I actually appreciate that he admits that wasn't it and they are looking at the hardware now... better late than never right? You also heard him say he trusts nobody, BUT you are right, the community has been saying this for a long time now. Thanks for watching and the comment.
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BE SURE TO VOTE IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO SEE FUTURE INTERVIEWS DONE AS PRODUCED/EDITED VIDEOS or LIVESTEAM? Poll is currently active under the Community Tab
We send it LIVE !! From the sim rigs !!!
@@MotionSimBuildersWhoa There big fella, lets get the livestream up and running first :)
@@GYGOtv can you please tell srs that there joystick input dont work more then 10 degrees on my yaw 2 pro.i bought the prescription just forn this and marcello dont answer emails so am about to give upp the prescrription because of this:/ i think it is codec inn only 20 degress of yaw axes freedom for dof.please help before i unsusubscripe it.
Glad they are looking into the cogging issue. Will look into the H2 / H3 when an official fix / mod is released.
I think they will figure something out now that they are finally looking at the motors/gears etc. They did a great job of working the other problem when they added the magnetic brake to stop the rig from moving, so I have confidence they will figure something out for the cogging too. Thanks for watching.
Awesome video and very informative. My two cents on the cogging. I never noticed for years until after hearing so much about cogging I tried to feel it and once I did I can't un feel it. Here are the reasons I had a hard time feeling it and, in a way, could be a band aid fix for many. I'm a private pilot and want to feel all the bumps on the runway and in the air. I was so glad when msfs finally got the turbulence closer to real life. When landing, tree top level is when you feel the most turbulence on landing in real life, above 1500 feet it smooths out and higher the better in nice weather. Everyone should take one flight lesson just to know how it really feels in a plane. Flying is extremely smooth once in smooth air. I've also had to brace one hand on the roof of the plane so my head would not hit it from turbulence. Ok so here is what works for me and I did this for my personal preference and not to smooth out the cogging, that was added benefit. I have everything turned up, I mean everything, turbo, etc (no smoothing). I have yaw slightly down more because its harder to keep straight on a runway with it jigging back and forth also so the frame won't hit the actuator rods. Second thing and maybe most important is the placement of my Butt kicker. I removed an adjustment knob that reclines my seat and attached it directly to the metal plate on the side of my seat. I can feel the vibrations so much better than attaching to the frame (night and day difference) and it helps with overheating (you can turn it down). I have the h6 with the sfu upgrade and I don't use the struts. Hope this helps others until we get a real fix. I'm so grateful that dofreality produced a 6 dof that I could afford. I've had mine for four years. I only fly in mine and don't car race due to the large panel with instruments attached to it. I rarely fly the airliners and a person might feel the cogging a bit more in a airliner.
Thanks so much for giving your tips, I hope they help someone too. I laugh when you mention turning down the yaw so it doesn't hit the frame... I had to do that on the Sway or mine hits (I keep sway at 50% on everything). I'm with you on the 6 DOF at an affordable price, never thought I'd be able to afford a system like this so once again THANK YOU IGOR! Appreciate the comment and the view!
@@GYGOtv make sure you order the new frame for the yoke mount, most if not all of your clearance issue will be gone.
@@likes2flyWe cut away all the clearance issues we had with the yoke mount already (had to trim the bottoms of the legs off). My clearance issues are now between the cradle framework and the movement arm rods, and I don't think I can cut either of those away and still have a working platform :) Also it is important to note that we flipped those triangles around to add 2 degrees more movement than stock and that is the cause of our problems, it is self inflicted for sure. The stock installation of the triangles as it comes from DOF keeps the rig from having this problem. Thanks for the reply.
Hello likes2fly, I should be getting my h6 monday morning 2/12, been having issues with Fedex for weeks. Anyways when I am up and running, might we do multiplayer sometime, if your game ?
@@darryl6677Sure, we have had viewers join us in the past, are you thinking MSFS or DCS or something else?
I will be attending CES as well !! Can’t wait to hang out with the DOF guys.
Thanks for watching Dave, one of these days when you can drag yourself away from your awesome DIY Rig... We'd love to include you on the interview roundtable. Let's keep in touch.
@@GYGOtv we totally have too YES !!!
Great interview. D.O.F. Reality - the proper pronunciation. Mark nailed it. LOL GYGO for the win!!!
That was a risky question and I didn't know for sure what the answer would be . I was more than willing to admit my mistake but as it turns out I got this one right... Steve's gonna be mad :)
Not that it matters... LOL ... I thought it was great question. @@GYGOtv
Great interview mate........re cogging, one of the ways I use to somewhat decrease the incidence of cogging (it does NOT completely remove it but in my subjective view it definitely helps) is to set up a %nn dead zone on the three axis of my joystick in MSFS2020 Control Options.
Interesting, I hadn't heard of that method before. Thanks for the tip and thanks for watching!
Your welcome mate....also tone down surge (both accel and deaccel) in SRS, this also tends to decrease the jitters a bit when flying
BTW mate....did I hear correct when Igor said they are shipping around a 1000 units per month,,,,,,have been rewatching interview but cannot relocate that mention
@@GYGOtv
A fascinating insight by two legends in this genre, what more could you ask for? I really enjoyed this one, please do more! :) Oh and as for the correct way to say ''D.O.F'' Reality, I've made a mental note, although I can't promise I'll say it correctly in my future videos, blame it on old age or something😅
OLD AGE... you are probably the youngest of the bunch :) Thanks for watching and we plan to do one a month and see how it goes. It looks like people want to see this in a Livestream Format so that should be interesting as well. At some point I'd love to have you as a guest to talk about your "user experience" so let me know if you'd be open to that. Thanks as always for keeping an eye on my channel... From one "legend" to another, I really appreciate it!
Great video, thanks Mark! Just got a P6, and I‘m totally flashed after the first couple of flights. I‘d be interested in a monthly or bi-monthly feed from Igor with the latest DOF news. Live would be great, but not really necessary. Thanks again for making al this information available to the community!
Congrats on the P6, glad you are liking it. Looks like by the poll that people want a Livestream so we will look at doing that next month. Thanks for watching and you are welcome for the info, I love this community and am happy to help.
Great video as always Mark! I'm not a platform user myself, but this video has me hyped for those who use these rigs for VR. Heck, this may get me into more sims...
Anytime you want to start let me know... I think you would like Elite Dangerous and I know some of your viewers did from when I talked to them in your chat. Also I think you mis-wrote your comment... it should be "I'm not a platform user myself YET" :) Just give it time LOL Thanks for stopping by!
Thank you so much for doing these interviews with Igor. I've been a long time H6 user who was a very early SFU adopter. I've been on the fence with doing Robert's mod so I really appreciate you addressing the current cogging issue with Igor while also touching on the subject of the mod with Igor.
I felt the biggest concern is noise but for a single guy with a house, that's not a concern for me. I am curious to the durability of the motors as my rig setup is quite heavy with a SimXperience G Seat attached but from all I can find the mod motors should be able to handle it without the dampening kit I need now with the DOF motors.
Again this was very helpful. Think I'm gonna try the mod & see how it works. Hopefully DOF will have developed something in the future to resolve this issue that I can fall back to if the mod doesn't pan out.
Hi curtisjackson, glad you are enjoying the interviews. Unless the cogging is driving you insane to the point you can't stand another minute with it you might hold off a bit on Robert's Mod in my opinion. I think that $600+ you would spend for it might be better spent on another option that should be coming down the road. I'm going to do a video on our experience with Robert's mod soon and I also have something else we are going to try after that. That is all I can say for now but I do feel confident DOF will come up with an option that will be less noisy and last longer than Robert's will. Stay tuned for more on this down the road.
Glad to hear there is a solution in the future to some of the performance concerns!
I will say though as a rally guy who did the mod... Pretty sure it throws me around really good, running it at 400kp right now
Wow you are BRAVE... I was originally scared to go past 300 as it was getting pretty violent at that setting. I didn't try rally but I did try road racing and it felt pretty similar to me as the old motors when I had it set at 315Kp. Good to know the Rally is good as well. Thanks for the feedback and the comment!
Good interview. I like hearing about future improvements coming
Thanks, appreciate you taking the time to watch and comment. Stay tuned for more of this monthly!
Hello Mark, It's Darryl, my H6 is a couple towns over and should be here monday the 12th. Anyways listening to your conversation with Igor, pertaining to the clogging issue, trying to slow down motors but still have torque. increase the number of threads on the worm gear, otherwise known as going from a course thread to a finer thread. A minor motor speed reduction would have same effect as slowing speed down alot without loosing torque. My opinion. Pass it on to Igor if you wish.
LOL, that is a GREAT idea... I don't think I need to pass it along to Igor if you catch my drift... That is all I can say right now but thanks for the suggestion.
Thanx again for the discount count, saved me a fortune on P&P. The VAT from Poland to UK was £290. Just humped the two boxes up the stairs, poor DHL driver. Just found out the other day that my 4090TI won't fit my case. Why do they make cases so small nowadays?
You are Very Welcome, thanks for using it to also help support the channel! Now the fun begins, please keep me updated how your build goes and also how you like it. As for your PC, some might also ask why are they making Video Cards SO BIG nowadays LOL. That is why I still buy Tower Cases for my PC builds, it looks weird with all these small boards in this giant case BUT it does keep from having issues with stuff fitting most of the time. Is it a problem with the length, the depth or both? I hope you can sort it out because the 4090 is an AWESOME card! Good Luck!
@@GYGOtv It's a problem with the Corsair iCUE Radiator, I couldn't top mount it, had to front mount it and the fans stop me installing the 4090. I had coolermaster stacker, and an Obsidian 650D, both cases were not suited for the Corsair rad. I was thinking about asking Corsair which case they could recommend. Thanx for the reply. All the best for now.
Great video Mark !
Thanks Danny, and thank you again for supporting us on Patreon! Hope you liked your name at the end :)
Great interview. Can you ask Igor about the range of motion restriction next time we talket about on the new h6.
Ya I can, are you talking about how the shafts look like they can go farther than they do or something else?
@@GYGOtv yeah they can go further up for sure
@@TommyVRI'll ask about it... or maybe you can if we do a livestream. Seems like that is the format most are wanting.
The question that wasn’t asked is “This new motor fix they are testing for the cogging mean there will there be a backwards compatible version to fit old models or will a whole new motion be required?” and “Will the new motors be offered to people like me who found out about the cogging after purchase at a discounted price?”
Just to be clear it doesn’t make it unusable and as there was no fix that I was happy in doing, to continue using VR I had no real option but to live with it, this is because I suffer with VR motion sickness and without the DOF reality motion I can’t use VR for flight simulator for any length of time without feeling ill.
I think that is a great question johnboy, but I think they need to see what solution works before they worry about the details of backward compatibility, pricing etc. Kind of putting the cart before the horse at this point. It is certainly something we can ask on the livestream hypothetically but not sure Igor will have an answer yet. I'll try to keep this in mind for the next one. Thanks for the question.
Is there a update to when the "Cogging" solution implementation?
Not yet... hoping to have a Livestream with Igor sometime soon. I'm excited to find out the news too so stay tuned and I'll let you all know when I do. :)
Very interesting. It would be very good to know in term of evolution if there is any plan from DOF Reality to propose an solution to be compatible with Forced Feedback base such as FFB Rhino. FFB base are becoming increasingly more popular, but they are very tall compared to standard joystick base, especially if used in conjunction with a stick extension. It would require either to raise significantly the seat or to change the shape of the backbone structure to allow lower attachment point for the base. As of today users are forced to decide either to go for a FFB base or to go for DOF motion platform, while it shall be possible to have both.
Hey youtch666, this topic has been raised by others as well. I plan to ask Igor about it today but if you have the time, feel free to join us on the Livestream in a few hours and you can ask him as well. To me, I think the controller manufacturer should have to adapt to the DOF instead of the other way around. There is a lot to getting the platform to work right (balance, clearance, etc.) and to me adding adapting to controllers seems unfair to DOF... but that is just my opinion. We will see what Igor says.
@@GYGOtv thanks for your answer, much appreciated. The issue here is that the FFB controller manufacturer cannot do anything. The base needs to be located centrally between the legs to function. The problem is how DOF reality designed the backbone structure of the platform where the seat and the controller base are at the exact same height, only the pedals are at a lower level. Hence the 15cm thickness of the seat cannot compensate for the 50 to 60cm height of the ffb base plus extension, and the grip will end up in a very high position compared to the body. There are only 2 solutions, find a way to lower the connection of the ffb base or make the seat higher.
some example of application, ua-cam.com/video/W_2AyvT1psM/v-deo.html
Good video!
Thanks for watching! This video was such a hit that we are now doing a monthly Livestream Series with Igor and also Jeff Weaver from SRS. You can check them out here if you are interested. ua-cam.com/play/PLQLoIjq0cB4fxDKwYHwzpS1KjKLT5hC1b.html&si=Y-DkVxvIr1zkOsm8
I’m gonna purchase my DOF H2 this week. Is the code in this video still good for the 5% discount?
@@Wildavismedia Congrats on your imminent H2 purchase!!! I hope you get as much enjoyment out of it as I have on mine. Yes currently the code in this video will work so I really appreciate you using it! Let me know if you have any questions or if there is anything else I can help you with, and welcome to this awesome motion simulator world!
Buying defs once the clogging fixed. H3 baby.
It is so worth it. Hopefully the cogging is fixed soon, honestly IMO the issue has been blown way out of proportion. Thanks for watching.
Thanks for the interview, it was very interesting to hear Igor's detailed thoughts on the Cogging issue.
It's quite true that it's only a problem with flight sims with GA and other slow turning aircraft. All of my DOF rigs have performed excellently with driving sims and rollercoasters, even with the original worm gearboxes.
So the jerkiness during slow flight sim movements has always been my only regret with DOF rigs. I bought my H3 several years ago with the original worm gearboxes and was unhappy with the jerks in GA flight sims, caused then mainly by the worm gear lash. Then the SFU upgrades became available were a vast improvement overall, but as Igor said, that made the slow rev DC motor cogging more apparent because of the increased precision.
I was able to significantly reduce the effect by simply moving the vertical pushrods to the innermost holes of the SFU lever arms, effectively down gearing the movement by about 2:1, and I put a video on tube illustrating how smooth it then was with a C172 in xPlane. It did unfortunately also reduce the maximum angular range by the same amount, but for me that was a small downside, because the maximum angular movement of the H3/P3 was ample anyway with the new SFU gearboxes.
Here's my UA-cam video showing that mod: ua-cam.com/video/JoyJZqJ69dk/v-deo.html
...but then the lure of the H6 was too great, with it's ability to heave and sway, so I upgraded to an H6 SFU. Unfortunately this brought the cogging back, and my simple solution of moving the pushrods on the SFU lever arms was no longer feasible, because of the triangular extension plates.
When Robert published his planetary motor mod I was able to fit it quite easily because I have a lathe and was able to modify the old worm gearbox flanges myself.
Here's my youtube video comparing the direct drive motors with the planetary motors while I was changing them over on my H6: ua-cam.com/video/2UgRFU_gGGw/v-deo.html
I'm still very pleased with the result. All flight movements in xPlane and MsFs are now perfectly smooth, even during autopilot micro-movements. It does indeed reduce the rapidity of movements in driving sims and things like rollercoasters, but not to the extent of spoiling them IMHO.
Here's a youtube video of Dirt Rally with the planetary motors, and without even changing the KP setting in SRS, showing ample rapid movement: ua-cam.com/video/mnoVqPd8pdg/v-deo.html
(The motors sound loud in this video because the microphone was in the camera showing a closeup of the motots, only a few inches away from them).
The aspect of the increase in noise level is very subjective though. My wife is mostly very tolerant of my toys, but I soon found that my Buttkicker was a No No, whereas she hasn't even noticed the planetary motor noise from outside the room.
I agree the one thing that's an unknown for me is the longevity of the gears, which Igor seemed to be the most focussed on. I've only had about 30 hours so far, and that's mostly with gentle GA and Heli movements, though I have also had many AC and Dirt rally sessions.
I'm an ex mechanical and electrical engineer, so I have some understanding of this subject and I readilly admit that the original DOF direct drive motors have no wearing parts other than the shaft bushes and carbon brushes, so would have an almost unlimited lifespan even with continuous use with possibly just rare brush replacements.
It's true that planetary gearbox motors are available with a wide range of durability, some even only have nylon gears, but the Phidgets motors have all steel gears and rated torque of 10kg/cm, which is slightly higher than the original direct drive motors. Tha fact that you can hear them is not necessarily an indication of wear or imminent failure because all straight cut gears are audible anyway.
I would have thought that a possible solution to cogging would be to use higher ratio SFU screw shafts, like conventional linear actuators. This would increase motor revs per degree of linear lift without introducing additional gear trains.
...anyhow, I'm still very impressed with all of my DOF reality purchases, and even with hindsight I'd have made the same choices again.
First and foremost THANK YOU so much for writing such a well worded and thought out comment, I'm honored to have people like you watching my channel and I really appreciate the time you took to write all this out, 1000 times thank you! BTW, your idea of higher ratio SFU screw shafts is a FANTASTIC idea... I can't really comment more than that but you are a very smart person (I'll leave it at that for now). If you don't mind me asking, what did you set your final Kp to with Robert's Mod? I'm at 315 and it is pretty close to what I felt with the stock DOF Motors just as reference. I have one final request if you are game... I want to do a video on cogging and since you have been here since the old wormgear days, I'd love to talk to you more one on one for that video and maybe get a better understanding myself of what is happening. If you don't mind, please email me at the contact info in the description if you wouldn't mind spending a few minutes on the phone to let me bend your ear a bit. Thank you again for the amazing comment and thanks for watching our channel!
Hi, Motion platforms is a new world for me. I fly in VR with MSFS2020. And movement is the next level of sim experience.
I have seen all of Mark's videos and they are very educational.
But ... as long as the 'Cogging' problem is not solved, I will not order anything from D.O.F. Reality ...
Thanks for watching! Just to give you my 2 cents... in the big scheme of things the "cogging" problem is a minor issue in the overall grand scheme of what the motion platform brings to the immersion. There are other rigs on the market can give you a "cog free" experience BUT you are looking at paying at least double the price of the DOF unit if not more. That being said, the cogging does bother some folks a lot more than it ever bothered me and I understand that. The good news is DOF Reality has this problem in their sights now and I think they will figure something out very soon. They came up with a great solution with the magnetic brakes to fix the movement issues when "stopping" the platform with the SFU gearboxes... and I'm confident they will sort this out too. So the good news for you is you are getting into this hobby at just about the right time. Just give it a little more time and I think you will have everything you want from DOF! Appreciate the comment.
@@GYGOtv Interesting answer! So I'm going to wait a little longer before ordering anything and I look forward to your next video (with Igor).
Hmm.... is it DOF or D.O.F.?☺😉
@@clementstals1574Glad you enjoyed that! I don't think you will be waiting a really long time, stay tuned and we will keep track of the changes at D.O.F. :)
Just got into DCS and awaiting a shipment from Ukraine .....DOF Reality P3. My setup is for the F18 since it's the most training I have had in real life. The current attachments are the Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS with the F18 stick, Pimax Crystal. Challenges have been shipping (Alaska) and finding items like the chair and other items I plan to get like winging MIP (VR) panels and Buttkicker seem to be an issue. Motion Compensation is also something I am looking into. AMD doesn't play nice with Pimax but I am willing to sacrifice the time to reset the crystal a few times just to avoid Nvidia. Slava Ukraine 🇺🇦
Congrats on your purchase... I think you are really going to enjoy it (especially the Carrier stuff). If you are interested I have several videos on the channel with my F-18 outings. I highly recommend the DCS Super Carrier Module if you don't have it yet. Motion compensation is a topic I've been working on for awhile. With the P3 you should be fine with the Witmotion setup www.simracingstudio.com/forum/motion-profiles-1/sim-racing-studio-motion-compensation-guide (choose if you are doing OpenVR or OpenXR, they use slightly different software). That will save you the hassle of trying to isolate the vibration from the tracker. If you have any questions I can help you with, just let me know and thanks for watching.
My worst and expensive mistake until COG is fixed… no airplane flies like this.
No UA-camr was serious about this obvious vibration, “so good , so smooth” are you serious…??? Are you being paid?? … what a mess of a RIG.
A solution for it is urgent, or I truly want my money back…
Sorry you feel that way. Have you tried adding a transducer... I hardly feel the cogging with it and that is why I say it is not an issue for me. I believe the "smooth" comment was in regards to "Robert's Mod" and it was so smooth that I hardly noticed the movement. Check out my full review of it here if you haven't yet ua-cam.com/video/yfFrWXB1ln4/v-deo.html. And no DOF doesn't pay me to say these things... it is how I honestly feel. You can always buy an actuator rig for at least 2X the money or more if it really is that important to you. Sorry you regret your purchase.
@@GYGOtv Of courseI I regret my buy. No airplane flies like this, GA, glider, fighter or whatever… And yes I am a professional pilot.
How can I send this thing back?
Is not even an option, is it? Dismount the thing, boxed and put it in mail!!!????
This is no joke… what it is, is a very expensive mistake. Now is just an object, definably not a decent fly sim RG.
Trash
@@GYGOtvAnd if you UA-camrs were serious in your reviews I would never buy this RIG. “SO SMOOTH SO WHATEVER” is definably not true… so guess what I think about you bloggers. Regards to you all…. 👎
@@ricardograde5134You'd have to talk to DOF Reality about returning it, I don't work for them. I'd recommend you'd probably be better off posting it for sale on the DOF Motion Builder's Facebook page. I bet you would sell it rather quickly there.
@@ricardograde5134You are welcome to your opinion, I would buy mine all over again in a heartbeat. One of the best purchases I ever made, and that is my opinion.
Through your older video and discount code I decided to give it a try. As soon as I bought it, they invalidate the codes and dropped the price by more than $500😮, What a joke
Well thanks for using the code, so in the end you did save some money with the old code but not as much as their discount? They do run specials from time to time, was that the case here?
@@GYGOtv Just like a outlet’s village, people who buy at full price are treated as fools. But at least the code can be of some benefit to the channel 😊
Hi Mark and Igor,
Many thanks for this informative interview. Just starting out on building a flight simulator. Motion sim with VR is my ultimate goal.
I have a question about the motion in your sim if I may. I just watched this ua-cam.com/video/hjtLhEAtilA/v-deo.htmlsi=wxAwCWld902gxoAH video and it occurred to me that when you are turning for your second attempt at landing, your body is tilted and you are attempting to keep your head level. This seems unnatural to me. I would have thought that in a coordinated turn the forces on your body would be more or less pushing you down into the seat. As such I would expect the motion rig to be horizontal with you tipped back a bit to simulate the downward force? Do you know if the SRS driver uses any of the techniques described in this video? ua-cam.com/video/pfTdJD2OakA/v-deo.htmlsi=NDo5Zj26mvdNEBPO
Thanks again for your great channel. Kind regards, Chris Williams, UK
Hi Chris, thanks for the question. So the DOF Reality basically can be set to follow the principals from that video for the most part. Actually you can set the DOF to do pretty much whatever you want, you can invert axis and adjust how quick and fast things move all in the SRS Software. If you are interested in all this, Jeff Weaver and I have a 2 part series where we go into all this in detail. Here is are links if you want to watch them ua-cam.com/video/pzi8G7T9p7A/v-deo.html and ua-cam.com/video/LSStkqpIX_M/v-deo.html So in that video you sent, they follow the setting that would be the "Rate" mode in the SRS Software, which is when you turn it slowly levels out even when you are still turning. Lots of people prefer this setting the the "Angle" setting which keeps the rig at the same angle the aircraft is banked at until you level out. You would need to try them out for yourself to see which one feels right for you. I personally like the "angle" setting because I do a lot of dogfighting and feeling the angle of the aircraft really helps me when I'm looking all around to see the bandit and am not looking at the gauges. But the good thing is you can set it either way to your preference. We talked a little more about this in our last livestream if you want to know more (ua-cam.com/video/7zJdbN76ArE/v-deo.html) The only thing that the DOF doesn't really do compared to that video you sent is blend the pitch and the surge axis for acceleration/deceleration. In the video they show when they accelerate, they pitch back and then surge forward... in the DOF you would only surge without the pitch to feel like you were being pushed into the seat so to me it feels wrong that way. For me the chair needs to surge backward on acceleration and forward on deceleration, but again you can set it either way. As for what you see in my video, me tilting my body and keeping my head level is just a natural reaction to the movement and I'm doing it unconsciously so it is about as "natural" as it can be. One thing a lot of people do is add belts to the rig which keeps their torso from leaning like I do, and the belts actually increases the feeling of motion... I just haven't done that yet because honestly it doesn't bother me very much. So I hope that answers your question, I can tell you flying in a motion platform is one of the most amazing experiences I've had and I highly recommend it... I've said over and over that the DOF was one of the best purchase decisions I've ever made. If you do decide to buy one, remember I have a discount code at the end of the videos if you want to save a few bucks. Please let me know if you have any other questions and welcome to this wonderful world of motion!
@@GYGOtv Thanks for the detailed reply. Really looking forward to experiencing this myself.
@@Treworgey1 You are welcome, if any other questions come up, just let me know.
Last interview, Igor said its software issues and now its hardware limitations as we all said. So you lost my trust and my business, I went with ERacing actuators and racing cockpit pro for 4.5k total cost and it’s far superior to my P3 for flights sim.
Glad you found a simulator that fits for your needs. Just to be clear, Igor said they "thought" it was software last time and they were looking into it (and spent a lot of time and money in the process to rule it out). I actually appreciate that he admits that wasn't it and they are looking at the hardware now... better late than never right? You also heard him say he trusts nobody, BUT you are right, the community has been saying this for a long time now. Thanks for watching and the comment.