Steve House shows you how to make a naked A-thread rappel anchor for descending from an ice route.
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- Опубліковано 22 лип 2024
- ATTENTION:
This video is intended as informational only and NOT as a substitute for proper instruction and guidance on the techniques, tools, and methods featured. Use of this information is solely at the risk of the user. Always seek professional instruction prior to implementing any of the material in this video or engaging in any of the activities it describes.
How to make this variation to the V-thread ice anchor for rappelling without leaving any sling material behind. For more information on these types of anchors we recommend the public how-to videos produced by the American Mountain Guides Association. Here is their video on V-threads with and without cord:
vimeo.com/197935910
For information about the relative strength of different ice anchors see "Ice Climbing Anchor Strength: An In-Depth Analysis" by Marc Beverly and Stephen Attaway, PHD. itrsonline.org/wordpress/wp-co... - Спорт
Me: *watching it at 3AM even though I dont even do ice climbing*
do it!
It’s actually 3:45
Try it...its fantastic
Yeah, you should try it! No experience needed, you only need to purchase a course!
3.34
Excellent video. Just got my first set of tools, have a bucket of water freezing in the fridge, excited to both practice this and implement it.
My ice fishing tent is never going to blow away again. Thanks for the tips and tricks. Love the video.
It's funny you mention this; I've used ice climbing skills while ice fishing on a number of occasions! Ice screws alone or V/A-treads beautifully hold sleds and tents on glass ice, and a 22 cm screw is perfect for checking ice thickness in under 10 seconds!
I use my ice climbing screws for my ice tent also. The ones they sell for ice fishing suck. I use the BD stubbies. No need for the long ones
Great technique and video! Plus, your transitions and backups are super bomber. Excellent examples. Thanks!
Most excellent, Steve! One take, unscripted? Wow - that shows how many times you've taught this! Agreed- excellent camera (phone) work, too! Glad "DTH" brought out some more good discussion points. My brain has some questions, but they are best answered outside on the ice while practicing this a few dozen times on flat to vertical ice, and in some snowy weather. I thank you for this great video lesson!
Top class ! Excellent work.... Thank you very much...
CONGRATS MASTER!!!!!! Thank you very much!!
Best wishes.
I always use 7mm/8mm...i like your technique, good for environment and my money!
Great tutorial, thanx for posting 👍🏼
Great video, thanks Steve!
Thank you, Steve!
Well done and very interesting...
Great video!
great video!! Thanks for sharing
Great video.
Great video, thanks!
Well done
Wow, that was spot on! at 3:40!
Absolute stud.
A pro! Thanks!
For questions about this video please visit our forum found here: uphillathlete.com/forums/
Plus I've found that so many people are showing ice climbing techniques and they seem to me (just as a humble climber) to not know what they are doing or saying, not so with your vids.
If you use overhand knot to connect 2 ropes for rappelling, it seems to me that load on the rope is basically trying to undo the knot instead of cinching it, is it not? I was taught to use double fisherman's knot for the ropes of the same thickness. Thanks for an answer.
The flat overhand it probably the most common rappel knot these days. I also initially (1984) learned to use the double fisherman's knot for rappeling but I haven't used that knot since about 1992. The knot is very safe and pulls much better than a double fishermans. Frimly cinch each and every of the 4 strands of rope independently and leave at least 12 inches (20cm) of tail. I've been using it for almost 30 years and it's been working great. I recommend always seeking qualified instruction from an IFMGA-mountain guide. A great book that cover's this subject in detail is "The Mountain Guide's Manual" by Marc Chauvin. Thanks for the question.
what a legend
Hello Steve. What trousers from Patagonia are you wearing in this clip. Thanks
Those are the Super Alpine Bibs with Gore-tex fabric. They are not currently available. They were in the line from 2015-2018
Hello Steve, Thanks for your wonderful technical knowledge. But what I need know about and what I observed in this video are your gloves. Hi, I am Rohan from India. I go to Himalaya every year and each time I struggle with my gloves which never help with the technical work what we do like holding and using an ice axe, some kind of rope work, clipping n unclipping carabiners, zoomar handling and also to deal with the cold temperature with goes from sub 0 to -10 around at 6800 mtrs. the reason is I have very thick and fatty gloves. some times it is very difficult to reattach the crampons when they come off with the thick gloves. please can you help with the model names you are using for mountaineering and ice climbing? Or you can send the link where I can get it online. I'll be very grateful if you recommend a pair of gloves. Thank you.
It is not necessary to carry two 21 or 22cms screws as shown; simply do this:
After drilling the first hole take your (in this case) Grivel ice tool, open the catch wire on hte end and insert it into the hole. Use this as your visual guide to make your 2nd hole. As the 2nd hole nears the first hole slow down the turns and watch for the first movement of the Grivel tool. As the screw reaches the tool you will see a small wiggle of the ice tool, telling you that you have met the other hole. Now remove the ice tool and finish the hole intersection.Carrying 2 long screws is never necessary if you do this, and you do not run the risk of screwing one screw into the other and damaging threads.
Cheers
RJF - guide
Dan- Actually this brings up several good points that I could have made more clear.
The point and value of the A-thread is that it works really well in bad weather, when you're getting spindrift coming down and filling the holes in the v-thread making it virtually impossible to thread. In that scenario the A-thread (you can drill the bottom hole first, then the top) does not fill with snow, it's self-cleaning.
If you do as you suggest, use the threader as the guide in the first hole then, a) that hole will fill with snow if it's the upper hole and the threader will fall out if it's left unattended in the lower hole and b) the threader is not nearly accurate enough as a guide in my experience. I am very very precise when I 'sight' the sides of the two screws and this allows me to get the two holes to intersect 100% perfectly, a necessity for a functioning naked (A or V) thread. If you're leaving tat to rap on then it's not a big deal if the holes don't align perfectly. As I view leaving tat as littering I try to avoid that. I leave tat if the ice is too wet to allow a naked thread.
I know your suggestion works some of the time, but in bad weather it doesn't work at all and the threader isn't a perfect sight-guide.
Also my method does not allow the screws to touch each other (the first is backed out) so there is no thread damage. Lastly if you don't want to carry 2 long screws, no problem. I've made and rapped off of many (100s?) of A-threads made with short 10cm screws, of course these were in very hard alpine ice, not water ice.
If I am only carrying 1 22cm screw then I drill the bottom hole first. Remove the 22cm screw and replace it with another 17cm screw to serve as my sight-guide. Then I can do the measuring and drilling with the first (and only) 22cm screw.
Thanks for the comment as it brought up a few good points. Cheers, Steve House
STFU, dude. Upload your own video if you have something to say.
@@profd65 :::: Relax, open for other suggestions is how you lean new tricks.
If you don't listen sometimes you miss out on something that could be critical knowledge when the moment arises..
@@bigstick5278
You shut the fuck up, as well. We don't need every dipshit with an ego that watches this video to contradict Steve House (of all people) and baffle younger climbers. You don't learn if you have ten people blabbing at you at once saying ten different things. Is that tough for you to understand? This is a climbing video, dummy, climbing is perilous. The comment section of a climbing video isn't the place to show off your so-called knowledge and try to impress others.
WOW!
No sure if @Uphill Athlete is still replying here, but I have a question. I regularly use Abalakovs (commonly the V-variant, so thx for the tip on the self cleaning A-variant!), but I still feel like I'm going on gut-feeling more than any thing else when it comes to evaluating the quality of the ice where I put it. Do you have any rules of tumb you use for making calls on what loads the ice will hold? It's not complicated when the ice is butter, but often here in Norway, you get dry ice that tend to plate a lot. Often ended up making 2 Abalakovs and equalizing with slings because the ice seem to fracture. But not sure if this is really necessary. Any reflections on the issue?
Andreas- As you state, ice is a highly variable medium, so it's impossible for me to give you a good answer to your question regarding fracturing indicating failure.. My recommendation would be to ask the same question of a few experienced ice climbers and ice-climbing mountain guides who have experience with your local ice conditions. This is also why I keep the ice screw anchor in as a back-up for the first climber and I look/listen/feel the ice and A or V-thread. If everything feels good then I'm comfortable rapping on the one thread as it's been tested. But you have to make a decision for yourself when you're there; every situation is different. Thanks for the thoughtful question. I wish I had an easy answer for you, but the answer is a nebulous combination of experience plus judgment plus erring on the side of caution if you're in doubt of the strength of your anchor.
@@UphillAthlete Thank you for the thoughtful answer. Yes, i guess it is very hard to quantify in-situ judgement based on years of experience. And, as you say, redundancy is key. I shall continue milking lokals for good intel on conditions, and doble-up anchors in dubious conditions. #walkoffsarethebest ;-) .
@@nordstrand82 I also love walk-offs! - BTW this is Steve H replying to all comments here. Thanks for the conversation.
Wouldn't be better to drill the 2 holes horizontally instead of vertically because if there is a weak in the ice, there is more probability the weak is the direction of the water flow (vertically)?
They test the same.
What’s the reason for using an A thread vs a V thread?
The snow falls out of the A-thread as you drill it.
What is tha advantage of A=thread compared to V-thread ?? In which case should we use A-thread ??
I thought I explained this in the video: A-thread is better when it is snowing so the holes do not fill with snow.
thanks for the vid, lots of good info, but those angles of the slings on the anchor, way too wide!
New version of grivel g20s.
Andrej Skafar I’m still using Lowe ice fangs 🤣😂 probably 25 years old yet still work fine .
Question about the strenght differences/Holding force between a V-thread in the classical horizontal form and a A-thread (abalacow in the vertical form). Is there a difference? Because last week I was rappeling on an icefall in tyrol. A ropeteam of mountain guides passed by and where confused that I did an A-thread instead a V-thread and told me that an A-thread is not as stron/safe than an classic V-thread. Now I am confused because I thought that in the same ice it doesn´t matter in which direction you set of the thread… (I always struggle to put in the screwholes in the same angle and for me it is easier and more successful to put in the screwholes in the vertical direction...
Great question. Rather than repeat what's already been extensively discussed, here is a link: www.mountainproject.com/forum/topic/107944148/abalakov-horizontal-v-versus-anderson-vertical-v-threads
@@UphillAthlete Thanks for the Link. Fun fact the A-thread's full name is Anderson Thread. It doesn´t get more fitting for your rappeling method which got you safely down Nanga :)
Hi there, I'm a climber of many years but never ice climbing so please excuse the dumb question. The backup for the first down on the V thread, is this because you want to check for any melting due to pressure on the rope (and obviously it holding properly) before everyone raps off it alone. I guess it must be cold enough as u said it won't work if the ice is wet because the rope is def going to get melted into the holes and stuck. So maybe it so cold there, that there will no meting from rope pressure, yes? it's just really to be sure of the solidity of the ice? Have i understood this correctly? Sorry for the dum question. BTW I have to say this was very well filmed whoever your camera op was and easy to see what was going on with out getting a head spin from some crazy camera movements which appear to be common with people showing ice climbing techniques. I've also subbed BTW, great channel.
There shouldn't be pressure-melting. If it's warm enough for that to be of concern, then you shouldn't be ice climbing that day. It's standard practice when you build your own rappel anchors to have an unweighted backup that gets removed by the last one to rap. My wife filmed this with an iphone; this entire thing was 100% impromptu. -SH
@@UphillAthlete Hi there thanks for that info! Well ur wife is a damn good camera operator iPhone or not. My day time job is an editor and I've seen pros make a big mess of it, that editors can not fix even with After Effects LOL! Plus I forgot to say, filmed with one cut very well executed via cuts just with camera positions. Well done!
@@UphillAthlete LOL, ok so I guess you now realise from my comments I had no idea who you were LOL ( I just googled you because i figured some guy who obviously knows what he's talking about and dropping names from Nepal region has to be someone LOL).You've clearly done some amazing stuff. Glad I found the channel.
So one thing I would have done differently would be to feed the green rope through the A thread. That way at the bottom we will be Pulling Purple. Its a easy way for your self and partner to remember which end is which. Esp after a long tiring day.
I don't know if this is approved technique. Purple is questionable in its dynamic loading properties. Rather than Pulling Purple, it's advisable to Go Green.
This is not a naked A-thread, as he keeps his clothes on throughout! LOL
Simon Brooks true! Clickbait! Lol
That would be Steve Fucking House to all of you! (I got to climb with him once)
i guess you should back that up with another overhand stoper knot, so there is 2 overhand on the tail
I do not add an additional overhand knot to the flat overhand, and here is why. First it is important to leave enough tail, 12"/30cm minimum. Then it is also critical to cinch each strand (all 4) individually. The reason I do not want to add a second overhand is that the whole point of and advantage of the flat overhand is that it is low-profile and does not snag. So why would I want to increase the size of the knot and increase the likelihood of getting it jammed. If my knot is tied correctly, then it will not fail under normal circumstances. And the danger / exposure of having to re-climb a pitch to get a stuck rope is much bigger than the almost non-existent risk of a properly tied flat overhand know untying under body-weight during a rappel. -Steve House
Just curious to touch on this, Isn't it ACMG standard to tie a double over hand? or double fishermans? I understand your point of a flat overhand, but I am hoping you would touch on the safety standard.
Joe-There is no safety standard. This is what I do the vast majority of the time because the vast majority of the time I judge this to be the best solution. You have to make your own judgement based on the information you have in any given set of circumstances. There is NO recipe that works for every situation. My question to myself is: Is the greater risk getting a rope stuck and the resulting epic, or is the greater risk a correctly-tied knot failing? Every situation is different and the responsibility for the decision lies 100% with you and only you know your skills. I know mine. My correctly tied and cinched flat overhand rappel knot hasn't failed and I've used that knot exclusively for 27 years of my 30+ years of climbing so I'm confident in it. But I am not going to tell you what to do. I can only tell you what I do. It's always your decision and your responsibility. Please don't look for a standard in a sport that is as dynamic as climbing. Steve House
@@JoeNelo
Another comment section expert.
I guess you should upload your own fucking video if you know what you're talking about.
Always back up flat overhands!!!!!
Abalakof
Yes, this is the original name we all used, but north americans are too lazy to remember how to say this complicated word. ;) Hope you pick up some tips. Steve H.
- ov, but yea, phonetically it sounds like -off, that's why a lot of Russian emigres spelled their surnames that way (Smirnoff etc)
This is nothing new. This is simply a vertical v thread anchor. Steve did not invent it lmfao. There’s another vid where a guy claims he invented the scratch technique for unstable thin pillars and curtains. These are things that most people just figure out as they become better smfh 😆