"Must be willing to travel!" What a WILD book!! It's one of my very favorite Robert Heinlein novels. Yes, Heinlein can be problematic but he's always really interesting. This book was a rollicking ride! It was fun to see him try his hand at pure fantasy.
I agree that from a technical perspective "Glory Road" has its flaws, but to a boy trying to understand how to be an adult in the late sixties reading the book was like being struck by a bolt of lightening - a main character, damaged and unsure of himself who is abruptly transported from his mostly mundane life into a universe with different rules, among people with rough edges that scrape painfully against his suddenly revealed parochialism. His personal prejudices and basic assumptions about good, bad, right and wrong get stripped away in this new universe and he is reduced to - literally - a blind, unbending will to crawl forward through any resistance. To the bemused gratification of his companions, he succeeds in their quest but, as you note, discovers that the personal quest has just started. Heinlein doesn't tell us what it was allowed Oscar to succeed and survive but that is actually a great strength of the story since it leaves the possibility of further consideration unencumbered by his preconceptions. The book is an extension of themes I first encountered in Heinlein's "Have Spacesuit, Will Travel". It is an example of SciFi at its very best. Thank you for your excellent review!
I encountered this book in a city library when I was in college. Sat down in a comfortable chair and began reading it. Eventually the library closed and not having a library card I had to leave for the evening. Returned the next morning when the library opened and finished reading the book. My favorite Heinlein book, one that I reread about every 5 years so I can approach it somewhat fresh. About time for a reread, and it will be interesting because I've had a major trauma in my life since the last reading.
First and foremost, I hope you are recovering from your trauma John. And I suspect your are right, this is a book that will benefit from multiple readings.
One of the reasons why this novel works as a whole is that the cheesyness is quite deliberate. It's about being a hero, and all heroisms are the same and equally hackneyed. The young men who go off to do or die are necessarily callow. They would accept the pulp-magazine dialogue at face value. To them, the Horned Ghosts are as good as any other goons, the Egg is as good as any other McGuffin. Depth is something that comes to them much later as a result of their experiences, which in fact is what happens to Oscar Gordon in the second part of the novel. This, you may have guessed, is one of my favourite books (not just one of my favourite Heinlein books!), and I am very glad indeed to come across someone who groks it. (Incidentally, why "fantasy"? Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic - I think someone said that once...)
Excellent comments and observations Alan! And you're 100% on the money. The setting is there to establish a canvas for RAH to expound on life. Which he does very well!
I read this several years ago. What I most remember about it is a sequence that is one of the best examples of Heinlein's technical chops as a writer. It involves Oscar taking on a dangerous opponent in one on one sword combat. Although this is a well worn boys adventure trope, Heinlein through his powers of description and inventiveness, manages to make this an especially memorable and engaging encounter -- a literal how-to for successfully describing action.
Good comments and observations Jhonas! A large part of RAH's ability to describe the sword combat may have been due to his experience as a champion fencer.
I loved Glory Road when I was 13 and upon further reading I always end up appreciating Heinlein on various levels in all of his work. "Tendentious" was a word I never heard until graduate school, but if anyone ever embodied that word it is certainly Mr. Heinlein. Right now I am re-reading A Stranger in a Strange Land and thanks to your very nice review I will reread Glory Road next. I imagine the hero from Glory Road is a younger version of Jubal Harshaw.
I do think Oscar is a bit of a young self insert by Heinlein. And "Tendentious" is now the word of the day! Thank you for brining that one to my attention!
I read this many times between 13 to 18. Heinlein was one of very few writers who consistently wrote about how your ideas of life influence how you live your life ie a philosophy of life. Adventure with a purpose. It was thought provoking.
My Dad found Glory Road in the kids section of a bookstore, shortly after it was published. The manager thought all F&SF was kids’ stuff. Dad, a big Heinlein fan, showed him some passages in the book. It was re-shelved!
Sad! The great diservice to the young is to narrow their reading experience with "age appropriate" literary babyfood. Let those that can chew steak have it as soon as they can chew, let those who are not ready discover this for themselves. Predigesting the classics is just as counter productive as uninspired smutt. Kids need good reading, even if it's a little beyond them, that's how they grow, that's better than low level flesh kincade, small words and small ideas. And make no mistake, school is offering kids grade level smutt to read these days.
@@ingramjd The store kept the rest of Heinlein in the kids section, and kept Glory Road on the shelves but in the adult section. This was the mid 1960s, before anyone had the world wide weird in their pockets.
@@ingramjd - very true! I remember my 2nd grade teacher so very fondly, as she took me to our town library and got me a regular (as opposed to a children’s) library card. My mother nearly lost her mind when she found me reading the Grapes of Wrath at the age of ten. (She hadn’t read it; only seen the movie. ) Who knew?
I agree with your summation. I've read many Heinlein novels in my day, and Glory Road spoke to my (then) adolescent pith in a way I found entertaining and inspiring, weirdly. Nice take, GB. Like your style, I subscribed. Cheers.
@@GrammaticusBooks I love your videos, and I've read some Heinlein (the YA books your recommended) and probably some other sci-fi writers that you've featured. I'm becoming educated in a genre that I've totally neglected!
Glory Road has a special place in my heart. I read it when I was about 13 back in the early 70's. I took up fencing because of this book. I've re-read it every 5 years or so since. A great book.
One could argue that "Job: a Comedy of Justice is also a fantasy book. The painting on the front of Glory Road references the Egg of the Phoenix. You made some really good points. Nice review.
Thanks Randall. I considered that the large black ovoid could be the sphere from the novel but it's far too large. However....if the artist was throwing in some elements with an abstract bent to them...You could be correct!
Very nice analysis. I think the conundrum you are encountering with Heinlein is that he's not actually a very good writer but he is a superb storyteller. This was one of my first SF/fantasy books and I've always loved it, glad you agree.
Great synopsis. The Moon is a Harsh Mistress is my favorite book of all time. I haven’t read all of Heinlein, but Glory Road is next. I will post my impressions after.
I first read this book in 1967 ( roughly, it was a while ago ) and I was about 18 so I loved it. Have re-read it 4 or 5 times since and never changed my opinion. Probably in part because I agree with many of the political and social opinions RAH espoused in his writing. And I have never bothered picking books apart to look at their details. For me it always comes down to "did I like it?". And in this case it's a big thumbs up. But thanks for your review.
Glorious. One of my favourite books. In fact, if I was ever shipwrecked on a desert island and had only one book to read, I would want it to be this one. Thank you for the video, it was interesting to hear your fair and balanced comments.
Still one of the finest writers we have ever been blessed with. I have the same edition. Which may show how long I've been reading Heinlein. My first? Rocket Ship Galileo in 1972 when Sister Theresa my school librarian asked me what I liked reading about. Space travel and World War Two I said. Okay she replied how about American boys building a rocket, going to the Moon and fighting Space Nazis? Two days later when I returned the book and said you have any other books by this guy? Her 70+ face burst into a grin as she opened a drawer in her desk and gave me a copy of Have Spacesuit Will Travel. She said "I figured you would his writing so I pulled this off the shelf for you."
I just like Heinlein, period. Been in the process of reading all of his books I can lay my hands on at used book stores. The Moon is a Harsh Mistress is one of my favorites, so Glory Road sounds interesting.
The wonderful thing about Heinlein is because most of his books were so widely published you could probably pick up used copies of all of them for maybe a total of $100.00/ Probably less.
Grammaticus I must admit admiration for your library. We have many of the same editions of Heinlein's juveniles, Saberhagan's Berzerker stories and Drake"s Hammer's Slammers
Farnham's Freehold is another novel to go along with this one and The Moon is a Harsh Mistress. A lot of people say The Moon is a Harsh Mistress is about the battle for Lunar independence and the establishment of a Libertarian government. But that's not what happens. Yes, a new government is formed all the while our little gaggle of friends are complaining that it's not nearly Libertarian enough. ALL of Heinlein's books are political philosophy books, particularly Stranger in a Strange Land.
I agree. He did use his novels in order to inject his ideals and beliefs. But I think that's why his novels have stayed relevant decades later. While many of his contemporaries have not. Good stuff Loren!
I borrowed this from the local library in about 1975 when I was eleven or so. Bits of the description of when the protagonist first sees Star have been etched into my brain for almost 50 years. The description of her height, line free tan, muscles and prefect breasts "that would be too large on a smaller woman" were most of what I remembered and possibly an influence on my sexuality. I'd tried a few times before to work out what the title was but failed. Recently I tried again, typing exactly what I remembered into Google and found it! I'm now half way through the audio book and pausing half way through your video through fear of spoilers.
It has been almost 60 years since I read "Glory Road" so I only remember one part: Oscar is at a party and being an American, he is asked "if the experiment was still working". Thinking of Prohibition, he responds "No", to which a comment is made the didn't expect democracy to last.
As long as we're talking about Heinlein, has anybody read "The Past Through Tomorrow?" It is a compendium of his "future history" stories--21 stories all set in a single universe and progressively visiting it at various times. I believe Heinlein was one of the first sci fi authors to specifically write many of his stories to fit into a single universe. I read this around the same time that I original read "Glory Road" and it has some of his most enjoyable short stories.
The Past Through Tomorrow has not a single YAFiction story in it, amazing given that was much of his output over the period of the stories. And yes, I read and reread it several times, trying to tie the stories and the timeline together in my head.
Wow! Another great, thought-provoking book review! I really have to restrain myself in my comments here, as I have so much to say after I've watched one of your videos. In this case, I will repeat what another writer said about the book, which is it's not really fantasy. I think we can agree that a lot of modern works get into a very gray area where an argument can be made that they are science fiction or fantasy, depending on what arguments you want to make. In this case, I would simply say that all of the "magic" can be explained as high technology or physical principles that either don't function in every dimension, or humanity simply hasn't discovered them yet (like the wards/force field barrier that Star places at camping spots). I think the story is very much about a man who wants something more from life than the simple 9-5 tedium, or living within a socio-political system that often makes no sense to those living within it. Hence, the Glory Road, the path to adventure and living life to the fullest. There is so much to parse in this book, but I honestly believe the that message, "dum vivimus vivamus," is as you suggested, the core principle and focus of Heinlein in this book. It could have been expressed more succinctly, but then we wouldn't have Glory Road. As an aside, I toasted my sister and her new husband with this phrase at their wedding. It's a good one!
After your thought- provoking reviews, I always want to read or reread the book at hand. It amazes me how the mind compartmentalizes memories. I'm left with vague impression on so many books. My TBR AGAIN list is overtaking my TBR shelf. You're giving me a complex G. 😜🤣
Not Heinlein's only fantasy. Try The Man Who Traveled In Elephants, Our Fair City, Magic Inc, Unpleasant Profession Of Jonathan Hoag, and all the Oz visits in his later work.
@@GrammaticusBooks Magic Inc. and Unpleasant Profession are novellas. The others are shorts. And really, Glory Road is technically Science Fiction...😛. Just a civilization so advanced their science looks like magic. 🐶
@@GrammaticusBooks those are shorts. But I should have added "Job: A Comedy Of Justice" to the list - that's a fantasy novel, though not a swords and sandals one. The Oz cross-overs mainly happen in Number/Pankera, but it's fair to think that the entire World As Myth mythos RAH created in his later books supersedes or infects his Future History mythos, and thereby transforms all his books into fantasy. Or ... transforms Glory Road into Science Fiction. Or breaks the distinction between the two.
Thanks for this. I was a teenager when Glory Road swam into my ken and I loved it as well as all the other Heinleins I could catch. It can't be reminiscent of Stephen King, but perhaps King is reminiscent of Heinlein as well as the more obvious Tolkien! RAH always loved mind-stretching voting, skin-colour, gender, personal armament and so on, and always referred to other writers, ERB being a major one, overtly in The Number of the Beast. Something reminiscent of his 'retired hero' bit appeared in the Disney animation Hercules. Overall, I felt that RAH was attempting to write a fantasy using all the clichés he could pack in, but to make 'em believable within the story. I know I'd love to have seen a longer version, perhaps adding the bits he'd edited it down to sell it rather than competition for Lord of the Rings.
I find your analysis of Robert Heinlein fascinating, having started reading Heinlein in the mid 60's and having read most of what he published before his death multiple times (I don't know what to think of what Virginia published); I do have a quibble with your commentary. You stated that Glory Road is Heinlein's only fantasy novel; I would propose that everything after The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress is more fantasy than science fiction, with the possible exception of I Will Fear No Evil, where a brain transplant gets to share the personality of the donor body, kinda sciency I suppose. I have always thought Heinlein's books after Moon became more and more superstitious in nature; but, that could just be me. :)
You probably have more depth of experience with those post Moon novels Darryl. But could those later fantasy stories be short form? Rather than full length novels?
@@GrammaticusBooks Real sure that the books I am talking about are not in any way 'short form'. Time Enough For Love, The Number Of The Beast, The Cat Who Walks Through Walls, To Sail Through The Sunset all very dependent on the super natural and the concept of an after life. Then there is always 1984's Job, straight retelling of the like named biblical story; a whole lot of super natural and not much science.
Glory Road is a comedy adventure in form. That’s why the adventures seem silly. I loved it actually. Heinlein throws in some philosophy but it’s really just a pastiche with references from all over the place. Now if you really want ridiculous read “the Flying Sorcerers” and see how many name puns you recognize.
I read this book when I was in Hight School over 50 years ago and a couple of times later. I found it fun glorious and very enjoying. I consider it one of his best.
About a war-weary Korean war veteran... It was written a few years too early for American soldiers to have been in Vietnam. (Unless they served in the French Foreign Legion.)
I L-O-V-E-D this book when I first read it!! And we all stay for the discourse - its why we love his books so much Its in his earliest works 'have space suit, will travel' and all
Once You read the advert, I remembered the tale, It was an adventure to be sure... I read it twice in the late seventies/early eighties... can't believe I still remember the story line.
@@GrammaticusBooks maybe, but it wasn't my favorite Heinlein, "Job", Number of the Beast", "Friday", but I had also moved on to: Burrough's John Carter of Mars series, E.E. "Doc" Smith, Anderson and Niven, Arthur C Clarke, et el... I do reread quite a few of the books I retained... It's good to allow the mind to build the imagery that the writer has placed on paper...
I just finished re-reading this. One very minor thing stood out for me. In the Center vernacular a woman asked "Is was sword?". I have been using "Is was" in my vocabulary for who knows how long. This must be where I picked it up when I read this in the 70s. The meaning is somewhat "Is this the sword that was actually used?"
I always interpreted the cover art to be the “egg” that they are searching for. The yellow/gold lines parallel are pertinent of the “road” unknown and unseen that eventually leads to the egg.
I think this was the fist Heinlein book I ever read, probably around 1967 or 8. Is it fantasy? No; not really. It has elements of fantasy and fantastical inclusions, but for anyone who reads the whole book, it is clearly set in a science fiction context. It is neither full on Sci Fi nor proper fantasy. It is, however, a great read. It is not one of Heinlein's best books and it is far from his worst. I thoroughly enjoyed it. I would, though, suggest for anyone reading this for the first time, to expect the fantasy parts to be Heinlein does fantasy. Heinlein has a very definite style and this is definitely a Heinlein tale.
I don’t have this one and I guess that’s okay. There are plenty of Heinlein books I want to read first. I’ll get to it someday. Great review, as always.
I read this book a few months after reading "Time enough for love", which I enjoyed very much. I remember the term "Fool Killing" coming from this book.
I have a confession to make. When I was seventeen, on vacation without my parents for the first time (1971), I actually went to that address on the Rue Dante in Nice. I didn't ring the doorbell though. I like to wonder, in my imagination, what would have happened if I did.....
Sounds like Heinlein’s philosophical, sociological and political examination in ‘Starship Troopers’, ‘Glory Road’ and ‘The Moon is a Harsh Mistress’ makes a thematic trilogy of sorts. Would you include ‘Stranger in a Strange Land’ or is it outside this threelogical trilogy?
I'd definitely put it into his thematic / philosophical book bucket. But honestly I think, to one degree or another, you could say that about almost everything he wrote!
Yes, but which version? The original uncut version of Stranger in a Strange Land or the published version? I'm thinking of reading the uncut SiaSL after I'm finished rereading the original first Amber series. Unfortunately, I'm going to have to reread the publication version as well, since it has been so long. 😳🙄😵💫 (well over half a million words...🤯)
My copy of Glory Road has the cover art that appears at 5m35 approx. I have yet to read it, or any Heinlein, in fact, and I have everything that he published (I think).
@@GrammaticusBooks Thanks for the reply and the recommendation. I tend to push Heinlein to the bottom of the pile because his libertarian ideology is too much tripe for me. My best wishes to you and Mrs Grammaticus.
I read this story as a youth but really can't remember much about it. I may try it again as you've certainly roused my curiosity. In a previous video I mentioned that I thought I had read one of Bernard Cornwell's books. I went and checked and indeed I did. I started the series with Sharp's Tiger. I recall enjoying it. I now plan on listening to Sharp's Rifle as soon as I finish what I'm listening to now, which is The Improbable Adventures of Sherlock Holmes.
The Sharpe's series is EXCELLENT Steven! I can't recommend it highly enough. The TV series is very good as well. Despite its low budget. But I would advise reading the books before watching the series.
@@GrammaticusBooks I will occasionally read/listen to more of the Sharpe series as long as it interests me, but I haven't watched TV since the early 2000s. Instead, I've devoted all my spare time to books.
The main character (Oscar) is almost killed at the start of the book when he's cut across the face with a bolo knife in Vietnam. However....I think there is another character in the book with a fencing scar.
Fort Mudge is a location in Georgia mentioned often in a comic strip at the time, Pogo. The only other locations mentioning Owlswick and Terminus are in Georgia as well. I found this article about George H. Scithers and Owlswick press. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_H._Scithers. Of course for Terminus I thought of Asimov as well.
Thanks Kingfisher! I was able to find an actual transcript of an interview with Scithers where he was asked about the locations. Check out this link ~ migdalin.wordpress.com/george-scithers/
I think that I've read most of Heinlein's stories over the years. Liked them all. The book is a story in the quest genre'. Sort of like the 'Voyager,' TV, Star Trek show. It is amazing the very long shadow that Heinlein is still casting.
I love classical history! But unfortunately, unlike yourself, I did not study Latin. I'm jealous that you can read these classics in their original language!
@@GrammaticusBooks I commented on this but my post disappeared. I have 2 recommendations for you, both of which I read in HS (circa '67). 1) Macroscope, by Piers Anthony. Written maybe '66. A brilliant novel set on Earth and throughout and beyond the galaxy. Several highly intelligent people, and 1 with average IQ, make this fantastic journey. Oh, and this novel predicts the internet, albeit on a galactic scale. 2) The Magus, by John Fowles, also written in mid-60's as I recall. This novel had an enormous effect on my life. It involves a young Englishman with a newly minted degree in English who takes a teaching job in Greece and the astonishing mystery he encounters. At once a novel concerning history, psychology, and philosophy, it really defies categorization. I can't recommend this, or Macroscope, enough.
@@classicsciencefictionhorro1665 Every now and then I have trouble with UA-cam deleting my comments. I'm not sure why this happens. A guess is that there are certain words that UA-cam flags (regardless of the content they're in). But that's just a guess. And I do like Piers Anthony. I'll keep an eye out for those CSFH!
I wonder if you've given "Citizen of the Galaxy" a try? It is on my top tier of Heinlein books. It has a somewhat toned down plot device from one of his Kettle Belly character's stories (not "Gentlemen Be Seated", the one with the secret agents). Citizen is like three or four books in one, even has a bit of the flavor of Vernor Vinge's Traders from "A Deepness in the Sky" (Oh Dear Lord, Deepness is an excellent book, though a prequel for "A Fire Upon the Deep", it can be read alone).
I really enjoy your thoughtful approach to Heinlein, one of the most misunderstood American authors of the 20th century. I agree with all of your points-- particularly the most controversial one, that this is a novel of female empowerment. Heinlein was one of the most ardent and honest feminists in history. His view of feminism was that women are so much the equal of men in most every way imaginable, that they sacrifice nothing of their individual value and stature by indulging those traits that are inherently and uniquely feminine. It is no weakness for a woman to enjoy being cherished and protected by a man. It's hardwired into human nature. It is satisfying in itself, and denigrating it for a cheap and bitter imitation of empowerment is contrary to achieving fulfillment as an individual. But the most valuable lesson I took from this book as a kid was the message that is most resonant and relevant today-- that the social customs and values you learned as a child may not be those you experience when you travel to distant lands. The book begins with a quote from Shaw's Caesar and Cleopatra: CAESAR (recovering his self-possession): Pardon him, Theodotus: he is a barbarian, and thinks that the customs of his tribe and island are the laws of nature. Heinlein always preached the necessity of developing a personal moral code and allowing your life to be guided by it, but he equally believed that the customs of others should be respected and deferred to when travelling within their borders. American foreign policy would be far more effective if Glory Road was required reading for our diplomatic corps and policymakers. Much of the strife in the world can be attributed to the fact that we approach every foreign relation with the conviction that no country is truly free if they don't have a contentious popular election every four years, eat McDonald's once a week, and share all our conventional attitudes with regard to civil rights, marriage, homosexuality, freedom of speech, etc. It's the same cultural provincialism that has led us to believe that diversity occurs when everyone is made to believe and say the exact same thing all the time. Heinlein's ideal was an individual who abided by a personal code of honor, but respected the rights of others to make other choices. Glory Road may promote this ideal more powerfully than any of this other novels.
Good points all David. And there's a lot going on just under the surface of Glory Road. I think that's why it is able to overcome its shortcomings and succeed as a novel.
You made this sound good... I read that years ago. Here's an oddity, though - you say a 7th printing, Berkley Medallion - I have one listed 7th printing - but it's Avon, 1969. Different cover - yellow, what I take as Gordon, Rufo, and Star, some sort of giant rat, a dragon, some caveman type with a blurred midsection. My Troopers is Berkley, 2nd, Dec 1968, looks like yours. I think Moon was too, but my brother lost it on the subway years ago. I should put this in the reread pile...
If you're a Heinlein fan, you won't be disappointed with a reread. And fortunately, it's not too difficult to pick up Heinlein paperbacks Fionam. You should be able to replace Moon fairly inexpensively.
His name isn’t Oscar, it’s Evelyn Cyril, or EC. He is called Oscar because he responds “oh scar “when Her Wisdom asks his name. Oscar becomes his name. I started reading Glory Road as a teenager, my father introduced me to science fiction and Cyrano de Bergerac about the same time.
Is the main character's name actually Oscar? I seem to remember that was Star's misinterpretation of his nickname ("Oh, Scar"). I may well be wrong, I read it years ago.
You have a good memory Para! Initially she dubs him Scar and he then alters it to Oscar. But his actual first name is Evelyn. However he went by E. C. Gordon (Evelyn Cyril).
I've always considered the ending to be tragically ironic: the same life experiences Star arranged for Oscar, in order to prepare him to recover the Egg Of The Phoenix, rendered him incapable of existing in any type of modern society. whether 1960's America or the hyper-advanced culture of Center. He is only comfortable in a medieval or wilderness society.
He does have a problem adapting to the high society Howard! I'd say part of that is was the glory-road itself was the adventure and the payoff. Instead of the life of luxury.
Dark towers as the destinations of quests go back at least to Byron's Childe Harold's Pilgrimage in 1812 or so. Stephen King might as well have been inspired by that as by _Glory Road_
Good observation. It is a common theme without doubt. But I'd say Glory Road is much closer in tone, tenor and plot than the early versions of this tale.
We all know George R.R. Martin as a fantasy writer ( Game of Thrones ) But back in 1986 he wrote a pure Si-Fi novel which has become one of my favorites. " Tuf Voyaging" I have always been a R. Heinlein fan which sets a very high bar when I recommend " Tuf Voyaging ". Enjoy.....
I read this book in my late teens, as a sci-fi nut. I thought some of the story & philosophy rather strange, but enjoyed the book overall. And the moto stuck with me. Dum vivimus vivamus!
I don't think this is a fantasy novel. I think it actually qualifies as science fiction. Granted, it's kind of weird science, but the "magic" operates according to the laws of nature which are well-understood by the advanced civilization. It looks like magic, but it's not supernatural.
Although not displayed as we see it artistically represented, the black egg figured largely in the story line. I am not sure the artist understood that or if he has another reason for displaying it in that way.
Well said. I first read this in the late seventies. While I don't completely agree with Mr. Heinlein, it's wonderful reading. And I loved the story. As well as The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress.
I read this in college, back in 1989. I remember enjoying it much but I can't remember much of the plot. I will have to reread it. Back when the movie "Glory Road" came out, I thought they were going to adapt the book into a movie, but alas, the movie had nothing to do with the book.
Another good review.. I get now 'The Whole is great5er than the Parts''. I am not the most discerning critic, but I like Heinlein. It helps also when in y6our life that you read it.
As for your comments about dialogue..Heinlein was in his minimalist period, just like all great artists of the 60s..it wasnt lack of verbal talent, it was art
I first read this book when it came out, the year I graduated high school, and thought it was fantastic. I recently reread it in my 70s and though I saw some problems with it I still think it is a great book. Say what you will about Heinlein's politics and other foibles he actually helped shape the course of my life.
I would guess Heinlein, more than almost any other SF author, had a major impact on large number of people growing up in the 60s and 70s. Good stuff Xrysoryba!
I'm sure it was you intended in your post but I have to comment that maybe you are so close to being like Jubal is why your wife became your ex-wife. 😜
The line "little brown brother forgot to disinfect his bolo" in the introductory Viet Nam section is a bit offensive. Also, it's as though Heinlein was confusing the Philippine Insurrection with the Viet Nam war. That said, I love the book. Your review is insightful! 😁
Thanks Bob...I took all his Vietnam comments with a grain of salt. They came across, to me anyway, as an author trying to sound authentic about a conflict of which he didn't have a knowledge base.
I've always been fond of this book because it's a bit of an oddity outside of Heinlein's usual path. I compare it to western author Louis L'Amour's "The Haunted Mesa", again a master's one venture into the realms of Fantasy. I'd love to hear your analysis of that book, by the way.
I don't think you mentioned that Star's source of power is that she is a multi-dimensional empress, and it is made very clear that Oscar is not enough to have her leave that power behind in any way. That all the adventures leading up to the dark tower were run ups to the final to get Oscar ready to take on the defenders of the tower to win.
I remember at first NOT enjoying G.R. but that I did finish it on a second attempt. I have a vague notion it was better on the second try, but I never went back to give it another full read, and remember almost nothing about it. I will admit that I had read very little fantasy at that point, but have since read the original Amber Series, A Wizard of Earthsea, various techno-fantasy by Piers Anthony, and others and watched enough soft-sci-fi movies to have dulled my critical eye, so maybe it is getting to be time to retry Glory Road. As for Heinleinian fantasy, don't discount Magic, Inc.
A book doesn't have to be a great piece of literature to be worth reading. It can be just entertaining. Of course that was Heinlein's secret weapon. To write entertaining novels so he could tell you about his philosophy.
Someone asks Robert A Heinlein if he could write an Edgar Rice Burroughs fantasy. He replies, Don't say that like it's a bad thing, and expands upon the thought with Glory Road. That didn't happen, but it could have. He creates my favorite Heinlein novel behind Door Into Summer.
@grammaticusbooks, Perhaps! It's the first in my memory with multiple universes. Doc Smith might have been earlier, but I'm thinking he was just multiple galaxies.
@@GrammaticusBooks I'd say it's more like Andre Norton's (and others') parallel worlds, accessible via portal (e.g., The Witch World), while "The Number of the Beast" takes the later concepts of multiple possible, more or less related, timelines out for a spin.
I suspect that Rufo was perhaps a couple of inches shorter than our hero, but probably outweighed him along with as much muscle-mass as Oscar. He was no dwarf.
@@GrammaticusBooks Perhaps, but, later in the book, Heinlein's consequent description of Rufo's physical prowess is not dwarfish. When producing a review, what facts of the story should you highlight?
Just came across your channel, watched one video, and immediately subscribed. Can I ask you, as a reviewer, a question about the process of reviewing? I thought this review of Glory Road was very fair but a lot of the reviews I have seen about anything by Heinlein just trash the book/author because of his political or social views. When I read reviews I'm hoping to see more about the quality of the writing, not reactions to a political or sociological point of view. I may not agree with Karl Marx of Friedrich Engels but I'm not going to say that Das Kapital is trash because I disagree with the ideology. When you review is the quality of the book (or the quality of the plotting, writing, etc.) as important to you as the ideology covered? Thanks, and keep up the good work!!
I operate from the motto "Politics ruins everything". I avoid politics or applying/considering political views when reviewing a book. I try to strictly review the book based on its merits as an entertaining tale. IE - How well written is it, how engaging are the plot and the characters. Along these lines, you might enjoy my review of Starship Troopers. Which is probably Heinlein's most overtly political book. Thanks for checking out the video Jhreed!
"the plot is a vehicle for Heinlein to expound on his political ideas" 😂 describes a lot of his later books especially. I read this when I was a teenager and still remember it well. It did succeed despite its great flaws.
How about reviewing Magic, Inc.? Though it is only a novella, it is much closer to the classical idea of fantasy, and possibly the earliest example of a modern society making use of magic.
That looks like one of his early novellas. It' certainly sounds interesting. I may have a copy of it laying around here. I'll see if I can locate it Thomas.
@@GrammaticusBooks I believe that it was originally titled The Devil Makes the Law. In the copy I own it is with another novella called Waldo, and the volume is titled (oddly enough) Waldo and Magic, Inc.
He wrote this to make a point- writing fantasy is easy, and a good writer could ace it- and he did. Full of 'only in fantasy' items- such as the opponent he fed to itself. He was having a laugh.
Glorious. I discovered this book in my school library about 1967 or 68 and it was one of my favorites. I'd like to thank all the teachers who sent students to the library for detention. 😂
I was in High school, I think my junior year, when I read this book and I enjoyed it, but mostly what I remember was the ideas about sex and the French nude beach. I'll have to get a copy and reread it.
_Glory Road_ was essentially _'Stranger In A Strange Land' for Dummies_ . It was (as far as I know, consciously so) aimed at a less sophisticated (perhaps even anti-intellectual), conventionally-minded audience who wouldn't bother with _Stranger In A Strange Land_ , or any "hippie" philosophizing, or be interested in reading such a boring, non action-adventure novel all the way through -- so it disguised the philosophical-sociological rambling of _Stranger In A Strange Land_ in the dress of a less objectionable, faster-paced and more exciting "swords-and-sorcery" style tale.
"Must be willing to travel!"
What a WILD book!! It's one of my very favorite Robert Heinlein novels. Yes, Heinlein can be problematic but he's always really interesting. This book was a rollicking ride! It was fun to see him try his hand at pure fantasy.
It was a very fun and surprising book Loren!
I agree that from a technical perspective "Glory Road" has its flaws, but to a boy trying to understand how to be an adult in the late sixties reading the book was like being struck by a bolt of lightening - a main character, damaged and unsure of himself who is abruptly transported from his mostly mundane life into a universe with different rules, among people with rough edges that scrape painfully against his suddenly revealed parochialism. His personal prejudices and basic assumptions about good, bad, right and wrong get stripped away in this new universe and he is reduced to - literally - a blind, unbending will to crawl forward through any resistance. To the bemused gratification of his companions, he succeeds in their quest but, as you note, discovers that the personal quest has just started. Heinlein doesn't tell us what it was allowed Oscar to succeed and survive but that is actually a great strength of the story since it leaves the possibility of further consideration unencumbered by his preconceptions. The book is an extension of themes I first encountered in Heinlein's "Have Spacesuit, Will Travel". It is an example of SciFi at its very best. Thank you for your excellent review!
Thanks for checking out the video John! It's a complex novel that succeeds despite its flaws. Good comments sir!
I encountered this book in a city library when I was in college. Sat down in a comfortable chair and began reading it. Eventually the library closed and not having a library card I had to leave for the evening. Returned the next morning when the library opened and finished reading the book. My favorite Heinlein book, one that I reread about every 5 years so I can approach it somewhat fresh. About time for a reread, and it will be interesting because I've had a major trauma in my life since the last reading.
First and foremost, I hope you are recovering from your trauma John. And I suspect your are right, this is a book that will benefit from multiple readings.
One of the reasons why this novel works as a whole is that the cheesyness is quite deliberate. It's about being a hero, and all heroisms are the same and equally hackneyed. The young men who go off to do or die are necessarily callow. They would accept the pulp-magazine dialogue at face value. To them, the Horned Ghosts are as good as any other goons, the Egg is as good as any other McGuffin. Depth is something that comes to them much later as a result of their experiences, which in fact is what happens to Oscar Gordon in the second part of the novel.
This, you may have guessed, is one of my favourite books (not just one of my favourite Heinlein books!), and I am very glad indeed to come across someone who groks it.
(Incidentally, why "fantasy"? Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic - I think someone said that once...)
Excellent comments and observations Alan! And you're 100% on the money. The setting is there to establish a canvas for RAH to expound on life. Which he does very well!
I read this several years ago. What I most remember about it is a sequence that is one of the best examples of Heinlein's technical chops as a writer. It involves Oscar taking on a dangerous opponent in one on one sword combat. Although this is a well worn boys adventure trope, Heinlein through his powers of description and inventiveness, manages to make this an especially memorable and engaging encounter -- a literal how-to for successfully describing action.
Good comments and observations Jhonas! A large part of RAH's ability to describe the sword combat may have been due to his experience as a champion fencer.
If you're talking about the last(?) battle, I remember that he had a sword in one hand and a laser(!) gun on the other. Time to reread it...🙂
I loved Glory Road when I was 13 and upon further reading I always end up appreciating Heinlein on various levels in all of his work. "Tendentious" was a word I never heard until graduate school, but if anyone ever embodied that word it is certainly Mr. Heinlein. Right now I am re-reading A Stranger in a Strange Land and thanks to your very nice review I will reread Glory Road next. I imagine the hero from Glory Road is a younger version of Jubal Harshaw.
I do think Oscar is a bit of a young self insert by Heinlein. And "Tendentious" is now the word of the day! Thank you for brining that one to my attention!
I read this many times between 13 to 18. Heinlein was one of very few writers who consistently wrote about how your ideas of life influence how you live your life ie a philosophy of life. Adventure with a purpose. It was thought provoking.
A theme that occurs, to one degree on another, in virtually all his novels. Which is what makes him interesting.
My Dad found Glory Road in the kids section of a bookstore, shortly after it was published. The manager thought all F&SF was kids’ stuff. Dad, a big Heinlein fan, showed him some passages in the book. It was re-shelved!
"It was re-shelved" Lol.
Sad! The great diservice to the young is to narrow their reading experience with "age appropriate" literary babyfood. Let those that can chew steak have it as soon as they can chew, let those who are not ready discover this for themselves. Predigesting the classics is just as counter productive as uninspired smutt. Kids need good reading, even if it's a little beyond them, that's how they grow, that's better than low level flesh kincade, small words and small ideas. And make no mistake, school is offering kids grade level smutt to read these days.
@@ingramjd The store kept the rest of Heinlein in the kids section, and kept Glory Road on the shelves but in the adult section. This was the mid 1960s, before anyone had the world wide weird in their pockets.
@@ingramjd - very true! I remember my 2nd grade teacher so very fondly, as she took me to our town library and got me a regular (as opposed to a children’s) library card. My mother nearly lost her mind when she found me reading the Grapes of Wrath at the age of ten. (She hadn’t read it; only seen the movie. ) Who knew?
Wonder what they did with the last few books he wrote? They were rather - hmmmm - odd.
I agree with your summation. I've read many Heinlein novels in my day, and Glory Road spoke to my (then) adolescent pith in a way I found entertaining and inspiring, weirdly. Nice take, GB. Like your style, I subscribed. Cheers.
Thank you for checking out the video Rick and the subscription!
Hi Grammaticus. This was a really thoughtful critical assessment of the book--as always. Excellent video!
Thanks Pat! I always appreciate you checking out the videos even though their not your usual fair!
@@GrammaticusBooks I love your videos, and I've read some Heinlein (the YA books your recommended) and probably some other sci-fi writers that you've featured. I'm becoming educated in a genre that I've totally neglected!
Glory Road has a special place in my heart. I read it when I was about 13 back in the early 70's. I took up fencing because of this book. I've re-read it every 5 years or so since. A great book.
You know it's a great book when it persuades you to take up a real world activity!
One could argue that "Job: a Comedy of Justice is also a fantasy book. The painting on the front of Glory Road references the Egg of the Phoenix. You made some really good points. Nice review.
Thanks Randall. I considered that the large black ovoid could be the sphere from the novel but it's far too large. However....if the artist was throwing in some elements with an abstract bent to them...You could be correct!
Very nice analysis. I think the conundrum you are encountering with Heinlein is that he's not actually a very good writer but he is a superb storyteller. This was one of my first SF/fantasy books and I've always loved it, glad you agree.
It is a good quick, fun read Craig!
Great synopsis. The Moon is a Harsh Mistress is my favorite book of all time. I haven’t read all of Heinlein, but Glory Road is next. I will post my impressions after.
I'd love to hear your thoughts on Glory Road Native!
I first read this book in 1967 ( roughly, it was a while ago ) and I was about 18 so I loved it. Have re-read it 4 or 5 times since and never changed my opinion.
Probably in part because I agree with many of the political and social opinions RAH espoused in his writing. And I have never bothered picking books apart to look at their details. For me it always comes down to "did I like it?". And in this case it's a big thumbs up. But thanks for your review.
I hear you Randy. Good comments sir. And thank you for checking out the video!
Great review! Found my father’s 1963 first edition. Started it today. In the meantime keep keeping on G!
Thanks Crazy. Is your first edition a hardback or a paperback? Curious if they put the novel out as a HB first or not.
Hardback
Glorious. One of my favourite books. In fact, if I was ever shipwrecked on a desert island and had only one book to read, I would want it to be this one. Thank you for the video, it was interesting to hear your fair and balanced comments.
I'm glad you enjoyed the video Mark! It's an interesting and engaging book!
Still one of the finest writers we have ever been blessed with. I have the same edition. Which may show how long I've been reading Heinlein. My first? Rocket Ship Galileo in 1972 when Sister Theresa my school librarian asked me what I liked reading about. Space travel and World War Two I said. Okay she replied how about American boys building a rocket, going to the Moon and fighting Space Nazis? Two days later when I returned the book and said you have any other books by this guy? Her 70+ face burst into a grin as she opened a drawer in her desk and gave me a copy of Have Spacesuit Will Travel. She said "I figured you would his writing so I pulled this off the shelf for you."
Great stuff John! I love Have Spacesuit. And I plan on reading Rocket Ship Galileo very soon!
I read this when it came out in 1963. I was 13. It had a powerful impact on my life. Thanx for your review.
I think more than any other author, RAH influenced many kids (myself included) growing up at that time.
I just like Heinlein, period. Been in the process of reading all of his books I can lay my hands on at used book stores. The Moon is a Harsh Mistress is one of my favorites, so Glory Road sounds interesting.
If you like Heinlein, you will like this book Darren!
The wonderful thing about Heinlein is because most of his books were so widely published you could probably pick up used copies of all of them for maybe a total of $100.00/ Probably less.
It was Glorious. A sword and sorcery story that was so much fun. I always want to visit these worlds in this novel every time I read it.
It came together nicely as story Mass! I'll probably need to reread it again here in the near future.
Grammaticus I must admit admiration for your library. We have many of the same editions of Heinlein's juveniles, Saberhagan's Berzerker stories and Drake"s Hammer's Slammers
I just picked up the copy of Hammer's Slammers John. I need to read that one soon!
I spent a second watch of the video zooming in on your book shelf titles. We can be friends.
I'm glad you approve of the selection Micro! It's quite heavy on vintage SF and Fantasy!
Farnham's Freehold is another novel to go along with this one and The Moon is a Harsh Mistress.
A lot of people say The Moon is a Harsh Mistress is about the battle for Lunar independence and the establishment of a Libertarian government. But that's not what happens.
Yes, a new government is formed all the while our little gaggle of friends are complaining that it's not nearly Libertarian enough.
ALL of Heinlein's books are political philosophy books, particularly Stranger in a Strange Land.
I agree. He did use his novels in order to inject his ideals and beliefs. But I think that's why his novels have stayed relevant decades later. While many of his contemporaries have not. Good stuff Loren!
I have a couple of Heinlein books that live rent-free in my head; this and Harsh Mistress have been the longest tenants.
I can see why!
I borrowed this from the local library in about 1975 when I was eleven or so. Bits of the description of when the protagonist first sees Star have been etched into my brain for almost 50 years. The description of her height, line free tan, muscles and prefect breasts "that would be too large on a smaller woman" were most of what I remembered and possibly an influence on my sexuality. I'd tried a few times before to work out what the title was but failed. Recently I tried again, typing exactly what I remembered into Google and found it! I'm now half way through the audio book and pausing half way through your video through fear of spoilers.
I'd love to hear your take on it G7 after your reread!
It has been almost 60 years since I read "Glory Road" so I only remember one part: Oscar is at a party and being an American, he is asked "if the experiment was still working". Thinking of Prohibition, he responds "No", to which a comment is made the didn't expect democracy to last.
You have an excellent memory Romad!
As long as we're talking about Heinlein, has anybody read "The Past Through Tomorrow?" It is a compendium of his "future history" stories--21 stories all set in a single universe and progressively visiting it at various times. I believe Heinlein was one of the first sci fi authors to specifically write many of his stories to fit into a single universe. I read this around the same time that I original read "Glory Road" and it has some of his most enjoyable short stories.
I agree Deron, I think Heinlein was one of the first to create an unified "multiverse". Ahead of his time.
The Past Through Tomorrow has not a single YAFiction story in it, amazing given that was much of his output over the period of the stories. And yes, I read and reread it several times, trying to tie the stories and the timeline together in my head.
Wow! Another great, thought-provoking book review! I really have to restrain myself in my comments here, as I have so much to say after I've watched one of your videos. In this case, I will repeat what another writer said about the book, which is it's not really fantasy. I think we can agree that a lot of modern works get into a very gray area where an argument can be made that they are science fiction or fantasy, depending on what arguments you want to make. In this case, I would simply say that all of the "magic" can be explained as high technology or physical principles that either don't function in every dimension, or humanity simply hasn't discovered them yet (like the wards/force field barrier that Star places at camping spots).
I think the story is very much about a man who wants something more from life than the simple 9-5 tedium, or living within a socio-political system that often makes no sense to those living within it. Hence, the Glory Road, the path to adventure and living life to the fullest. There is so much to parse in this book, but I honestly believe the that message, "dum vivimus vivamus," is as you suggested, the core principle and focus of Heinlein in this book. It could have been expressed more succinctly, but then we wouldn't have Glory Road. As an aside, I toasted my sister and her new husband with this phrase at their wedding. It's a good one!
When the phrase is good enough for a wedding toast, you know it's a great motto! Thanks for checking out the video and the comments Cats!
Heinlein can be hit or miss for me. This one seems to be right up my alley. Thanks for the review. I plan on checking this one out soon!
I'd love to hear your thoughts on it KDJ.
After your thought- provoking reviews, I always want to read or reread the book at hand. It amazes me how the mind compartmentalizes memories. I'm left with vague impression on so many books. My TBR AGAIN list is overtaking my TBR shelf. You're giving me a complex G. 😜🤣
I aim to please Buck! And thanks again for checking out the video and the comments!
Not Heinlein's only fantasy. Try The Man Who Traveled In Elephants, Our Fair City, Magic Inc, Unpleasant Profession Of Jonathan Hoag, and all the Oz visits in his later work.
I will definitely look at those Xscale. Are those short stories perhaps? I probably should have said "only Fantasy novel".
@@GrammaticusBooks Magic Inc. and Unpleasant Profession are novellas. The others are shorts. And really, Glory Road is technically Science Fiction...😛. Just a civilization so advanced their science looks like magic. 🐶
@@GrammaticusBooks those are shorts. But I should have added "Job: A Comedy Of Justice" to the list - that's a fantasy novel, though not a swords and sandals one. The Oz cross-overs mainly happen in Number/Pankera, but it's fair to think that the entire World As Myth mythos RAH created in his later books supersedes or infects his Future History mythos, and thereby transforms all his books into fantasy. Or ... transforms Glory Road into Science Fiction. Or breaks the distinction between the two.
Thanks for this. I was a teenager when Glory Road swam into my ken and I loved it as well as all the other Heinleins I could catch. It can't be reminiscent of Stephen King, but perhaps King is reminiscent of Heinlein as well as the more obvious Tolkien! RAH always loved mind-stretching voting, skin-colour, gender, personal armament and so on, and always referred to other writers, ERB being a major one, overtly in The Number of the Beast. Something reminiscent of his 'retired hero' bit appeared in the Disney animation Hercules.
Overall, I felt that RAH was attempting to write a fantasy using all the clichés he could pack in, but to make 'em believable within the story. I know I'd love to have seen a longer version, perhaps adding the bits he'd edited it down to sell it rather than competition for Lord of the Rings.
I agree, a longer version would have been quite good! And "mind-stretching" is a great description of RAH's writing!
I find your analysis of Robert Heinlein fascinating, having started reading Heinlein in the mid 60's and having read most of what he published before his death multiple times (I don't know what to think of what Virginia published); I do have a quibble with your commentary. You stated that Glory Road is Heinlein's only fantasy novel; I would propose that everything after The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress is more fantasy than science fiction, with the possible exception of I Will Fear No Evil, where a brain transplant gets to share the personality of the donor body, kinda sciency I suppose. I have always thought Heinlein's books after Moon became more and more superstitious in nature; but, that could just be me. :)
You probably have more depth of experience with those post Moon novels Darryl. But could those later fantasy stories be short form? Rather than full length novels?
@@GrammaticusBooks Real sure that the books I am talking about are not in any way 'short form'. Time Enough For Love, The Number Of The Beast, The Cat Who Walks Through Walls, To Sail Through The Sunset all very dependent on the super natural and the concept of an after life. Then there is always 1984's Job, straight retelling of the like named biblical story; a whole lot of super natural and not much science.
Good review. I read this book a long time ago. I do think about some of what it had to say from time to time.
There's certainly a lot there to process David! It's much more than just a simple fantasy tale.
Glory Road is a comedy adventure in form. That’s why the adventures seem silly. I loved it actually. Heinlein throws in some philosophy but it’s really just a pastiche with references from all over the place. Now if you really want ridiculous read “the Flying Sorcerers” and see how many name puns you recognize.
I'll have to find the Flying Sorcerers Bwise!
I read this book when I was in Hight School over 50 years ago and a couple of times later. I found it fun glorious and very enjoying. I consider it one of his best.
It does have a certain quirky hard to define appeal to it Joseph!
Thank you for your in-depth and thoughtful review! I am not very intrigued by the book, and I will go out to get a copy and read it! Thanks, again!
I'd love to hear your thoughts on it David!
About a war-weary Korean war veteran... It was written a few years too early for American soldiers to have been in Vietnam. (Unless they served in the French Foreign Legion.)
I can see how people might think it's Korea (the timing does work) but it's actually Vietnam.
Just checked my copy published in1963 so definitely Vietnam era. Hell Special Forces were there in the late 1950s
Eisenhower sent military observers to South Vietnam. Kennedy sent military advisers.
Among the finest novels ever written, with great depth and style and yet fun.❤
Very fun to read Richard!
I L-O-V-E-D this book when I first read it!!
And we all stay for the discourse - its why we love his books so much
Its in his earliest works 'have space suit, will travel' and all
It does have a certain charm!
Once You read the advert, I remembered the tale, It was an adventure to be sure... I read it twice in the late seventies/early eighties... can't believe I still remember the story line.
Sounds like you may be due for a third reading!?!
@@GrammaticusBooks maybe, but it wasn't my favorite Heinlein, "Job", Number of the Beast", "Friday", but I had also moved on to: Burrough's John Carter of Mars series, E.E. "Doc" Smith, Anderson and Niven, Arthur C Clarke, et el... I do reread quite a few of the books I retained... It's good to allow the mind to build the imagery that the writer has placed on paper...
I just finished re-reading this. One very minor thing stood out for me. In the Center vernacular a woman asked "Is was sword?". I have been using "Is was" in my vocabulary for who knows how long. This must be where I picked it up when I read this in the 70s. The meaning is somewhat "Is this the sword that was actually used?"
I missed that Ken. But I do like that turn of phrase!
I always interpreted the cover art to be the “egg” that they are searching for. The yellow/gold lines parallel are pertinent of the “road” unknown and unseen that eventually leads to the egg.
That could very well be Nathan taken from an abstract perspective.
I think this was the fist Heinlein book I ever read, probably around 1967 or 8. Is it fantasy? No; not really. It has elements of fantasy and fantastical inclusions, but for anyone who reads the whole book, it is clearly set in a science fiction context. It is neither full on Sci Fi nor proper fantasy. It is, however, a great read. It is not one of Heinlein's best books and it is far from his worst. I thoroughly enjoyed it. I would, though, suggest for anyone reading this for the first time, to expect the fantasy parts to be Heinlein does fantasy. Heinlein has a very definite style and this is definitely a Heinlein tale.
I agree Jfomega, it's quintessential Heinlein but in a fantasy like setting.
I don’t have this one and I guess that’s okay. There are plenty of Heinlein books I want to read first. I’ll get to it someday. Great review, as always.
That's what I was thinking, too.
Thanks Michael. Now I'm curious. What's at the top of your Heinlein TBR list? Enquiring minds want to know!
I read this book a few months after reading "Time enough for love", which I enjoyed very much.
I remember the term "Fool Killing" coming from this book.
It's a good book Tim, and many people commenting on Time Enough.
I have a confession to make. When I was seventeen, on vacation without my parents for the first time (1971), I actually went to that address on the Rue Dante in Nice. I didn't ring the doorbell though. I like to wonder, in my imagination, what would have happened if I did.....
You so should have rung that doorbell!
Sounds like Heinlein’s philosophical, sociological and political examination in ‘Starship Troopers’, ‘Glory Road’ and ‘The Moon is a Harsh Mistress’ makes a thematic trilogy of sorts. Would you include ‘Stranger in a Strange Land’ or is it outside this threelogical trilogy?
I'd definitely put it into his thematic / philosophical book bucket. But honestly I think, to one degree or another, you could say that about almost everything he wrote!
Yes, but which version? The original uncut version of Stranger in a Strange Land or the published version? I'm thinking of reading the uncut SiaSL after I'm finished rereading the original first Amber series. Unfortunately, I'm going to have to reread the publication version as well, since it has been so long. 😳🙄😵💫 (well over half a million words...🤯)
My copy of Glory Road has the cover art that appears at 5m35 approx. I have yet to read it, or any Heinlein, in fact, and I have everything that he published (I think).
I actually prefer his juveniles over his adult works. You may want to take a stab at Have Space Suit Will Travel.
@@GrammaticusBooks Thanks for the reply and the recommendation. I tend to push Heinlein to the bottom of the pile because his libertarian ideology is too much tripe for me.
My best wishes to you and Mrs Grammaticus.
I read this story as a youth but really can't remember much about it. I may try it again as you've certainly roused my curiosity.
In a previous video I mentioned that I thought I had read one of Bernard Cornwell's books. I went and checked and indeed I did. I started the series with Sharp's Tiger. I recall enjoying it. I now plan on listening to Sharp's Rifle as soon as I finish what I'm listening to now, which is The Improbable Adventures of Sherlock Holmes.
The Sharpe's series is EXCELLENT Steven! I can't recommend it highly enough. The TV series is very good as well. Despite its low budget. But I would advise reading the books before watching the series.
@@GrammaticusBooks I will occasionally read/listen to more of the Sharpe series as long as it interests me, but I haven't watched TV since the early 2000s. Instead, I've devoted all my spare time to books.
Am I remembering wrong? It has been decades since I read this, but wasn't the scar on his face from a fencing duel in university?
The main character (Oscar) is almost killed at the start of the book when he's cut across the face with a bolo knife in Vietnam. However....I think there is another character in the book with a fencing scar.
Fort Mudge is a location in Georgia mentioned often in a comic strip at the time, Pogo. The only other locations mentioning Owlswick and Terminus are in Georgia as well. I found this article about George H. Scithers and Owlswick press. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_H._Scithers. Of course for Terminus I thought of Asimov as well.
Thanks Kingfisher! I was able to find an actual transcript of an interview with Scithers where he was asked about the locations. Check out this link ~ migdalin.wordpress.com/george-scithers/
I think that I've read most of Heinlein's stories over the years. Liked them all. The book is a story in the quest genre'. Sort of like the 'Voyager,' TV, Star Trek show. It is amazing the very long shadow that Heinlein is still casting.
I agree completely Jim that it's a quest genre story. With quite a bit going on under the surface.
I see a copy of The Aeneid on your shelf. I read Latin in HS (Caesar through Virgil), and college (Catullus and Horace).
I love classical history! But unfortunately, unlike yourself, I did not study Latin. I'm jealous that you can read these classics in their original language!
@@GrammaticusBooks I commented on this but my post disappeared. I have 2 recommendations for you, both of which I read in HS (circa '67). 1) Macroscope, by Piers Anthony. Written maybe '66. A brilliant novel set on Earth and throughout and beyond the galaxy. Several highly intelligent people, and 1 with average IQ, make this fantastic journey. Oh, and this novel predicts the internet, albeit on a galactic scale.
2) The Magus, by John Fowles, also written in mid-60's as I recall. This novel had an enormous effect on my life. It involves a young Englishman with a newly minted degree in English who takes a teaching job in Greece and the astonishing mystery he encounters. At once a novel concerning history, psychology, and philosophy, it really defies categorization. I can't recommend this, or Macroscope, enough.
@@classicsciencefictionhorro1665 Every now and then I have trouble with UA-cam deleting my comments. I'm not sure why this happens. A guess is that there are certain words that UA-cam flags (regardless of the content they're in). But that's just a guess. And I do like Piers Anthony. I'll keep an eye out for those CSFH!
I wonder if you've given "Citizen of the Galaxy" a try? It is on my top tier of Heinlein books. It has a somewhat toned down plot device from one of his Kettle Belly character's stories (not "Gentlemen Be Seated", the one with the secret agents). Citizen is like three or four books in one, even has a bit of the flavor of Vernor Vinge's Traders from "A Deepness in the Sky" (Oh Dear Lord, Deepness is an excellent book, though a prequel for "A Fire Upon the Deep", it can be read alone).
I have read Citizen...but it's been a Loooong time.
I really enjoy your thoughtful approach to Heinlein, one of the most misunderstood American authors of the 20th century. I agree with all of your points-- particularly the most controversial one, that this is a novel of female empowerment. Heinlein was one of the most ardent and honest feminists in history. His view of feminism was that women are so much the equal of men in most every way imaginable, that they sacrifice nothing of their individual value and stature by indulging those traits that are inherently and uniquely feminine. It is no weakness for a woman to enjoy being cherished and protected by a man. It's hardwired into human nature. It is satisfying in itself, and denigrating it for a cheap and bitter imitation of empowerment is contrary to achieving fulfillment as an individual.
But the most valuable lesson I took from this book as a kid was the message that is most resonant and relevant today-- that the social customs and values you learned as a child may not be those you experience when you travel to distant lands. The book begins with a quote from Shaw's Caesar and Cleopatra:
CAESAR (recovering his self-possession):
Pardon him, Theodotus: he is a barbarian, and thinks that the customs of his tribe and island are the laws of nature.
Heinlein always preached the necessity of developing a personal moral code and allowing your life to be guided by it, but he equally believed that the customs of others should be respected and deferred to when travelling within their borders. American foreign policy would be far more effective if Glory Road was required reading for our diplomatic corps and policymakers. Much of the strife in the world can be attributed to the fact that we approach every foreign relation with the conviction that no country is truly free if they don't have a contentious popular election every four years, eat McDonald's once a week, and share all our conventional attitudes with regard to civil rights, marriage, homosexuality, freedom of speech, etc. It's the same cultural provincialism that has led us to believe that diversity occurs when everyone is made to believe and say the exact same thing all the time. Heinlein's ideal was an individual who abided by a personal code of honor, but respected the rights of others to make other choices. Glory Road may promote this ideal more powerfully than any of this other novels.
Good points all David. And there's a lot going on just under the surface of Glory Road. I think that's why it is able to overcome its shortcomings and succeed as a novel.
You made this sound good... I read that years ago. Here's an oddity, though - you say a 7th printing, Berkley Medallion - I have one listed 7th printing - but it's Avon, 1969. Different cover - yellow, what I take as Gordon, Rufo, and Star, some sort of giant rat, a dragon, some caveman type with a blurred midsection. My Troopers is Berkley, 2nd, Dec 1968, looks like yours. I think Moon was too, but my brother lost it on the subway years ago. I should put this in the reread pile...
If you're a Heinlein fan, you won't be disappointed with a reread. And fortunately, it's not too difficult to pick up Heinlein paperbacks Fionam. You should be able to replace Moon fairly inexpensively.
@@GrammaticusBooks Darn few UBSes any more.... I am sure they were all used... I mean, 60s...
His name isn’t Oscar, it’s Evelyn Cyril, or EC. He is called Oscar because he responds “oh scar “when Her Wisdom asks his name. Oscar becomes his name. I started reading Glory Road as a teenager, my father introduced me to science fiction and Cyrano de Bergerac about the same time.
I reread both every so often. Glory Road is a fabulous adventure, Her Wisdom is a masterpiece.
I had that edition of Glory Road, and also the Starship Troopers and Moon Is a Harsh Mistress on the shelf behind you.
I think those were probably the most widely published versions of those books.
Is the main character's name actually Oscar? I seem to remember that was Star's misinterpretation of his nickname ("Oh, Scar"). I may well be wrong, I read it years ago.
You have a good memory Para! Initially she dubs him Scar and he then alters it to Oscar. But his actual first name is Evelyn. However he went by E. C. Gordon (Evelyn Cyril).
@@GrammaticusBooks Thanks for letting me know.
@@GrammaticusBooks Obviously he was hoping the reader would draw parallels to Marion Morrison. (John Wayne)🐶
I've always considered the ending to be tragically ironic: the same life experiences Star arranged for Oscar, in order to prepare him to recover the Egg Of The Phoenix, rendered him incapable of existing in any type of modern society. whether 1960's America or the hyper-advanced culture of Center. He is only comfortable in a medieval or wilderness society.
He does have a problem adapting to the high society Howard! I'd say part of that is was the glory-road itself was the adventure and the payoff. Instead of the life of luxury.
Dark towers as the destinations of quests go back at least to Byron's Childe Harold's Pilgrimage in 1812 or so. Stephen King might as well have been inspired by that as by _Glory Road_
Good observation. It is a common theme without doubt. But I'd say Glory Road is much closer in tone, tenor and plot than the early versions of this tale.
We all know George R.R. Martin as a fantasy writer ( Game of Thrones ) But back in 1986 he wrote a pure Si-Fi novel which has become one of my favorites.
" Tuf Voyaging" I have always been a R. Heinlein fan which sets a very high bar when I recommend " Tuf Voyaging ".
Enjoy.....
I did not know RR wrote scifi! Now I have to find it!
I read this book in my late teens, as a sci-fi nut. I thought some of the story & philosophy rather strange, but enjoyed the book overall. And the moto stuck with me. Dum vivimus vivamus!
Exactly! It worked on the macro level. But not necessarily a well written book otherwise.
I don't think this is a fantasy novel. I think it actually qualifies as science fiction. Granted, it's kind of weird science, but the "magic" operates according to the laws of nature which are well-understood by the advanced civilization. It looks like magic, but it's not supernatural.
A fair point Pete.
Although not displayed as we see it artistically represented, the black egg figured largely in the story line. I am not sure the artist understood that or if he has another reason for displaying it in that way.
I believe it was the Egg of the Phoenix but it was of a size that a person could hold it. Unless the artist was being abstract?
Terminus was the original name for the southern meeting of railroads in Georgia. It was eventually renamed Atlanta.
Roger that.
Do you think Double Star influenced the writers of the movie Dave?
Unfortunately, I've neither seen the movie Dave nor read Double Start. I need to fix the later!
Well said. I first read this in the late seventies. While I don't completely agree with Mr. Heinlein, it's wonderful reading. And I loved the story. As well as The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress.
It's an intriguing read David with a lot more going on than one would assume. Particularly in light of its reputation as a juvenile fantasy novel.
I agree with your comments both good and bad, it was a fun read. It is the only Heinlein novel I remember well (I read Heinlein in the 70's)
That it is the RAH novel you still remember speaks volumes to its effectiveness! Good stuff Bruce!
I read this in college, back in 1989. I remember enjoying it much but I can't remember much of the plot. I will have to reread it. Back when the movie "Glory Road" came out, I thought they were going to adapt the book into a movie, but alas, the movie had nothing to do with the book.
You are correct. The movie had nothing to do with the book! And more's the shame, it would make a great movie!
Another good review.. I get now 'The Whole is great5er than the Parts''. I am not the most discerning critic, but I like Heinlein. It helps also when in y6our life that you read it.
He's a great author Maurice! And one that many people grew up with.
I really liked this book, back in the day. Very fond memories.
It was a fun read!
As for your comments about dialogue..Heinlein was in his minimalist period, just like all great artists of the 60s..it wasnt lack of verbal talent, it was art
Roger that.
I first read this book when it came out, the year I graduated high school, and thought it was fantastic. I recently reread it in my 70s and though I saw some problems with it I still think it is a great book. Say what you will about Heinlein's politics and other foibles he actually helped shape the course of my life.
I would guess Heinlein, more than almost any other SF author, had a major impact on large number of people growing up in the 60s and 70s. Good stuff Xrysoryba!
An engaging, sometimes ribald, fantasy with some memorable characters. Maybe not his high mark, but an easy reading adventure. So, I'd say "glorious"!
In a bizarre way...yes, Glorious!
Greatest compliment I ever got:
an ex told me I *WAS* Jubal Harshaw.
Still, I'd rather have been EC Gordon.
I don't know. I think I'd take Jubal! ....actually either would be a blast!
I'm sure it was you intended in your post but I have to comment that maybe you are so close to being like Jubal is why your wife became your ex-wife. 😜
The line "little brown brother forgot to disinfect his bolo" in the introductory Viet Nam section is a bit offensive. Also, it's as though Heinlein was confusing the Philippine Insurrection with the Viet Nam war.
That said, I love the book.
Your review is insightful! 😁
But it was one of the early novels to mention that war, wasn't it?
Thanks Bob...I took all his Vietnam comments with a grain of salt. They came across, to me anyway, as an author trying to sound authentic about a conflict of which he didn't have a knowledge base.
@@GrammaticusBooks At the time, not many in the US did.
I've always been fond of this book because it's a bit of an oddity outside of Heinlein's usual path. I compare it to western author Louis L'Amour's "The Haunted Mesa", again a master's one venture into the realms of Fantasy. I'd love to hear your analysis of that book, by the way.
Haunted Mesa sounds like possibly a good candidate for a read during June on the Range Henry!
Fantasy? Straight up science fiction. Akin to present day work as opposed to pre 90s stuff, lots of history, good action, real character.
I am a Heinlein fan but never read this on because of how it has been described as fantasy. Going to Amazon to buy it now.
I would love to hear what you think about it Watsonda!
I envy your ability to read it for the first time!
You are gonna have SUCH a blast...
I don't think you mentioned that Star's source of power is that she is a multi-dimensional empress, and it is made very clear that Oscar is not enough to have her leave that power behind in any way. That all the adventures leading up to the dark tower were run ups to the final to get Oscar ready to take on the defenders of the tower to win.
I did leave that off to try and limit the number of spoilers while still relating the bones of the story.
I remember at first NOT enjoying G.R. but that I did finish it on a second attempt. I have a vague notion it was better on the second try, but I never went back to give it another full read, and remember almost nothing about it. I will admit that I had read very little fantasy at that point, but have since read the original Amber Series, A Wizard of Earthsea, various techno-fantasy by Piers Anthony, and others and watched enough soft-sci-fi movies to have dulled my critical eye, so maybe it is getting to be time to retry Glory Road.
As for Heinleinian fantasy, don't discount Magic, Inc.
Glory Road has issues. Without doubt. But a certain charm on the macro level. And I LOVED Amber!
Glory Road was a favorite of mine, many years ago.
Thanks for checking out the video Henrik! It's a quality novel by RAH!
A book doesn't have to be a great piece of literature to be worth reading. It can be just entertaining. Of course that was Heinlein's secret weapon. To write entertaining novels so he could tell you about his philosophy.
I agree completely Alan!
Someone asks Robert A Heinlein if he could write an Edgar Rice Burroughs fantasy. He replies, Don't say that like it's a bad thing, and expands upon the thought with Glory Road.
That didn't happen, but it could have. He creates my favorite Heinlein novel behind Door Into Summer.
That would be a great story Grant!
From all the way back to my youth in the 1990's, I never met a Heinlein novel I didn't enjoy to some degree or another.
There's usually an aspect or two in his stories that resonates with people. A testimony to his qualities as a writer.
Glorious book, made a huge impact on me back in the day!
Heinlein impacted a lot of people growing up in the 60s and 70s. Myself included!
I think this is the first story I've read which ventured into the multiverse.
The origin story of the multiverse perhaps?
@grammaticusbooks, Perhaps! It's the first in my memory with multiple universes. Doc Smith might have been earlier, but I'm thinking he was just multiple galaxies.
@@GrammaticusBooks I'd say it's more like Andre Norton's (and others') parallel worlds, accessible via portal (e.g., The Witch World), while "The Number of the Beast" takes the later concepts of multiple possible, more or less related, timelines out for a spin.
I suspect that Rufo was perhaps a couple of inches shorter than our hero, but probably outweighed him along with as much muscle-mass as Oscar. He was no dwarf.
I have trouble remembering what I ate for breakfast these days, but I'm pretty sure Rufo is referred to in the novel as a dwarf?
@@GrammaticusBooks Perhaps, but, later in the book, Heinlein's consequent description of Rufo's physical prowess is not dwarfish. When producing a review, what facts of the story should you highlight?
Just came across your channel, watched one video, and immediately subscribed.
Can I ask you, as a reviewer, a question about the process of reviewing?
I thought this review of Glory Road was very fair but a lot of the reviews I have seen about anything by Heinlein just trash the book/author because of his political or social views. When I read reviews I'm hoping to see more about the quality of the writing, not reactions to a political or sociological point of view. I may not agree with Karl Marx of Friedrich Engels but I'm not going to say that Das Kapital is trash because I disagree with the ideology.
When you review is the quality of the book (or the quality of the plotting, writing, etc.) as important to you as the ideology covered?
Thanks, and keep up the good work!!
I operate from the motto "Politics ruins everything". I avoid politics or applying/considering political views when reviewing a book. I try to strictly review the book based on its merits as an entertaining tale. IE - How well written is it, how engaging are the plot and the characters. Along these lines, you might enjoy my review of Starship Troopers. Which is probably Heinlein's most overtly political book. Thanks for checking out the video Jhreed!
"the plot is a vehicle for Heinlein to expound on his political ideas" 😂 describes a lot of his later books especially.
I read this when I was a teenager and still remember it well. It did succeed despite its great flaws.
Agreed, a great many of his books are infused, to one degree or another, with his personal beliefs.
How about reviewing Magic, Inc.? Though it is only a novella, it is much closer to the classical idea of fantasy, and possibly the earliest example of a modern society making use of magic.
That looks like one of his early novellas. It' certainly sounds interesting. I may have a copy of it laying around here. I'll see if I can locate it Thomas.
@@GrammaticusBooks I believe that it was originally titled The Devil Makes the Law. In the copy I own it is with another novella called Waldo, and the volume is titled (oddly enough) Waldo and Magic, Inc.
It's actually one my favorites. Inspired to me to take fencing lessons.
I can see that. Heinlein was a champion fencer as well! Or at least that's what it says on the back cover!
He wrote this to make a point- writing fantasy is easy, and a good writer could ace it- and he did. Full of 'only in fantasy' items- such as the opponent he fed to itself. He was having a laugh.
Heinlein definitely did like to drop into satire and comedy at points in his books!
Glorious. I discovered this book in my school library about 1967 or 68 and it was one of my favorites. I'd like to thank all the teachers who sent students to the library for detention. 😂
Hah! ... perhaps that's what the teachers had in mind the whole time Robert??? Good stuff!
Wasn’t Job a fantasy? Been a few decades since I read it
A bit of one. I'm afraid I have not yet read it!
Loved the book.
It does have an inexplicable charm!
I was in High school, I think my junior year, when I read this book and I enjoyed it, but mostly what I remember was the ideas about sex and the French nude beach. I'll have to get a copy and reread it.
I'd be interested in hearing your take on it after a second reading Emmit!
Glory Road was a fun read.
I agree User. It is a quick fun read!
_Glory Road_ was essentially _'Stranger In A Strange Land' for Dummies_ .
It was (as far as I know, consciously so) aimed at a less sophisticated (perhaps even anti-intellectual), conventionally-minded audience who wouldn't bother with _Stranger In A Strange Land_ , or any "hippie" philosophizing, or be interested in reading such a boring, non action-adventure novel all the way through -- so it disguised the philosophical-sociological rambling of _Stranger In A Strange Land_ in the dress of a less objectionable, faster-paced and more exciting "swords-and-sorcery" style tale.
An interesting theory Bernard..I'll need to ponder that one for a bit!