Thank you for the new vid. I just ordered and recieved a CA3 and Phaserunner this week! How timely. The feel of your components are very nice. I have played with inexpensise ebike components for several years. I also recieved a GMAC motor and 20 inch rim. Will try my first wheel build in the next few days. Again thank you for the new video and taking the time and effort make it. I like your mockup! Bill
It definitely works. I set mine to turn on cruise control if I hold the throttle in the same position for 5 seconds. I forget how I did it, but it is there. Look at the manual PDF and it will tell you everything you need to know.
Beacuse lithium battery voltages are discretely set in cell increments, this is the most precise way to define the battery. The actual SOC vs Voltage curve is not at all linear, it varies form cell type to cell type and just a voltage max/min doesn't capture that.
@@GrinTechnologies I understand. But the CA does not have access to the individual cell voltages via the balance cable. So how does it work for non NMC cells, that have a different voltage and discharge curve? For example LiFePO4? You could use coloumb counting, but you still need to define the max and min voltages and AH, since the battery is not always fully charged and discharged.
It depends of the controller has a 6 pin CA plug on it already. If so, then it's fairly easy. If not, then it's best to use the Stand Alone CA shunt that wires between the controller and battery and plug the controller into that.
What about voltage restrictions? I am set to a maximum power of 700 Watts but never get above 650 Watts because one of the voltage values is too low. Which setting do I need to change to be able to ride at 700 Watts?
@@MrDeceptacon88 right ok I can see the time argument, but temp? Surely you know what the temp is outside anyway, its not like you are going to travel a 1000km on this or gain some serious altitude to need to know extreme temp changes in short periods of time that could affect you. Do you have phone? Are you using gps? Time is on it, temp too.
Any reason why my bike ignores the set speed limit on the CA? Also the throttle limit settings don't effect anything is that because I'm plugged into the controller throttle and not the CA throttle plug?
Yes exactly. The CA can only control the power of the bike if the CA is the item supplying the throttle signal to your motor controller. If your throttle is plugged into the controller directly, then there's nothing the CA can do to change anything about the throttle voltage you are sending it. Remember that the controller has no awareness or communication with the CA.
Thanks! A question: numerous times you mention "if I had a torque sensor", eg: to get human power readings. Are you talking about power meters (crank, hub or pedal) or something built into the motor, or...? I'm asking because a torque sensor seems like a useful thing to have, not least so your controller can use it to modulate motor power... @grin
Most of the time the the torque sensor is in the bottom bracket since that's the most common and obvious implementation. But in principle it can also be on the cranks, the pedals, the chain, the rear dropout, the motor axle, or the motor cassette, and there are various systems out using each of those methods. The important thing for the Cycle Analyst is just that the output is provided in an analog voltage signal, and not some digital communication bus.
Hi, Can this display be used to reprogram individual PAS settings on a cheap chinese 1500w hub motor kit ? The controller settings are truly horrible and feels like it meant to be only used with throttle , the PAS settings will only affect top speed but for EX: if you are in #4 PAS and you pedal it will go up to 30 kph at 1500w, so it's pretty unusable I would like to have every PAS settings ONLY controlling power and not speed, with unlimited speed in each mode Thanks for your help
Hi Mathieu, no the Cycle Analyst does not communicate with any controllers at all. What you can do is have the throttle output of the Cycle Analyst go to the throttle input of the controller, and then have your PAS, throttle, ebrake etc. all go to the CA instead of directly to your motor controller. As long as the controller will operate fine from just a throttle signal, then this way you get full control of PAS behavior via the CA. It's a non-trivial job, but is doable in principle. You'd want to study this in detail: ebikes.ca/product-info/grin-products/cycle-analyst-3.html
To bad my defective eRider torque sensor (brand new from china) killed my new CA3.. I guess because it drew exessive current. The shop i bought it from (not Grin) will not help me. So i will have to open it and look what burnt. It is my second system - CA3+eRider are quite nice when working correctly. Cheers from Germany
Assuming you were running at more than 52V nominal? In most cases a bad PAS/Torque sensor that draws excessive current will cause Diode D3 to get blown which is an easy repair described here: endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=37964&start=2600#p992104
@@GrinTechnologies Hey thank you for the reply! I found that thread today, before checking YT, while searching for the D3 diode. 😁 It is indeed blown! My battery was a 13s Li-ion -so nominal 48V. Could you tell me if there is a way to check if the is DN2470 working as intended with a multimeter? It looks a bit rough on the outside. Also thank you for the latest firmware release, finally 36 PAS poles for the T9/T13 torque sensor 👍
Great video, Robbie. I learned several things. My question, tho, is this: Every time I ride with my wife she wants to know what number PAS level she is in before starting to peddle. The previous Bafang style controller must have permanently programmed her to look for this number. It really is the only number she wants to see, and I am at a loss as to how to give her this bit of info. Any ideas? (Married 38 years so divorce is out)
Hey Bill, just tap the MFSwitch up/down button and you'll see where it is at. Otherwise, you can also set it up to always power on with PAS level at zero, this is an option you can select in the AuxD setup menu.
Yes, but the one with the on/off button needs custom wiring to hook up the on/off control to the CA's power, you can't just plug it in to a CA that doesn't have the mating 5pin waterproof connector on it.
It's too bad the manual isn't more complete, so you don't have to search all over creation for videos explaining various ins and outs of particular settings. Complex devices require comprehensive manuals.
We figured at 36 pages long it was at a good tradeoff of length vs digestibility: ebikes.ca/documents/CycleAnalyst_V31_Web.pdf For more details on ALL the settings, there is a tooltip explaining the purpose and function in the CA setup utility software. Either hover your mouse over the setting of interest, or go to help->help and you will see a help file with each and every setting fully described.
@@GrinTechnologies haha gotcha! But my criticism would also work for tech-minded people that just want an update on technology that is proven to work well :)
@@GrinTechnologies TBH, I could see a big improvement in readability of the information presented with a good reflective or transflective monochrome (I'd avoid color!) graphic display, something like the 2-3" Sharp Memory LCDs (but this isn't as power-sensitive of a use case, so it could be a conventional reflective or transflective active matrix LCD), instead of a character display. Things like graphs can be more detailed, more information can be presented in graph form, text can be easier to read and things more spelled out, and additional text to give a better idea of what's going on can be used. (Admittedly, I've not actually used a Cycle Analyst, though, but I do use a device with a similar character LCD (a ScanGauge II) for additional OBD-based instrumentation in my car.)
@@henrievery-3eye relax. My criticism is justified. If the diy route keeps stuck on ancient interfaces with 12 menu screens then diy is no longer interesting
Thank you for the new vid. I just ordered and recieved a CA3 and Phaserunner this week! How timely. The feel of your components are very nice. I have played with inexpensise ebike components for several years. I also recieved a GMAC motor and 20 inch rim. Will try my first wheel build in the next few days.
Again thank you for the new video and taking the time and effort make it. I like your mockup!
Bill
Thanks Bill and good luck with that wheel build. First one usually takes 3 hours, but it gets faster after that.
I loved my Cycle Analyst, it was one of my favorite parts of my ELF and I really miss it.
I would really appreciate it if you guys at Grin did a tutorial showing how to use cruise control.
I've turned mine on but it doesn't work
It definitely works. I set mine to turn on cruise control if I hold the throttle in the same position for 5 seconds. I forget how I did it, but it is there.
Look at the manual PDF and it will tell you everything you need to know.
Why are you setting the number of cells?
Wouldn't it be much more flexible to set the battery low and high voltages?
Maybe also a discharge curve?
Beacuse lithium battery voltages are discretely set in cell increments, this is the most precise way to define the battery. The actual SOC vs Voltage curve is not at all linear, it varies form cell type to cell type and just a voltage max/min doesn't capture that.
@@GrinTechnologies I understand. But the CA does not have access to the individual cell voltages via the balance cable.
So how does it work for non NMC cells, that have a different voltage and discharge curve? For example LiFePO4?
You could use coloumb counting, but you still need to define the max and min voltages and AH, since the battery is not always fully charged and discharged.
Does this unit work with bikes that have a push button power control not a throttle?
I have a Crystalite CT4840 controller. Will this work with my system?
It depends of the controller has a 6 pin CA plug on it already. If so, then it's fairly easy. If not, then it's best to use the Stand Alone CA shunt that wires between the controller and battery and plug the controller into that.
Can I use the Potentiometer CA3_Aux_AI with this setup to scroll faster?
What about voltage restrictions? I am set to a maximum power of 700 Watts but never get above 650 Watts because one of the voltage values is too low. Which setting do I need to change to be able to ride at 700 Watts?
What does your watts limit have to do with voltage restrictions?
Most likely you have a battery current limit in play
My controller does not save after I change programming what should I do
In version 4 Iwould like it to have ambient temeprature sensor and Real time clock powered from button cell battery
Yes
Why?
@@bluewanderer9903 ummm to know what time it is and temp
@@MrDeceptacon88 right ok I can see the time argument, but temp? Surely you know what the temp is outside anyway, its not like you are going to travel a 1000km on this or gain some serious altitude to need to know extreme temp changes in short periods of time that could affect you.
Do you have phone? Are you using gps? Time is on it, temp too.
@@bluewanderer9903 yeah time is the main one.
Just wanna have to pull out my phone from my backpack just to see the time.
Does this have a backlight for night riding?
Yup, but some soldering is needed to activate it ua-cam.com/video/eJYotEpT_1A/v-deo.html
This is Awesome, Soo much information.
Any reason why my bike ignores the set speed limit on the CA? Also the throttle limit settings don't effect anything is that because I'm plugged into the controller throttle and not the CA throttle plug?
Yes exactly. The CA can only control the power of the bike if the CA is the item supplying the throttle signal to your motor controller. If your throttle is plugged into the controller directly, then there's nothing the CA can do to change anything about the throttle voltage you are sending it. Remember that the controller has no awareness or communication with the CA.
@@GrinTechnologies yeah that makes sense I switched it around and everything's all good.
Thanks! A question: numerous times you mention "if I had a torque sensor", eg: to get human power readings. Are you talking about power meters (crank, hub or pedal) or something built into the motor, or...? I'm asking because a torque sensor seems like a useful thing to have, not least so your controller can use it to modulate motor power... @grin
Most of the time the the torque sensor is in the bottom bracket since that's the most common and obvious implementation. But in principle it can also be on the cranks, the pedals, the chain, the rear dropout, the motor axle, or the motor cassette, and there are various systems out using each of those methods. The important thing for the Cycle Analyst is just that the output is provided in an analog voltage signal, and not some digital communication bus.
Have a read here where we go into some detail on how different torque sensors work: ebikes.ca/learn/pedal-assist.html
@@GrinTechnologies In your opinion, what is the best bottom bracket torque sensor and do you have it?
Hi, Can this display be used to reprogram individual PAS settings on a cheap chinese 1500w hub motor kit ?
The controller settings are truly horrible and feels like it meant to be only used with throttle , the PAS settings will only affect top speed but for EX: if you are in #4 PAS and you pedal it will go up to 30 kph at 1500w, so it's pretty unusable
I would like to have every PAS settings ONLY controlling power and not speed, with unlimited speed in each mode
Thanks for your help
Hi Mathieu, no the Cycle Analyst does not communicate with any controllers at all. What you can do is have the throttle output of the Cycle Analyst go to the throttle input of the controller, and then have your PAS, throttle, ebrake etc. all go to the CA instead of directly to your motor controller. As long as the controller will operate fine from just a throttle signal, then this way you get full control of PAS behavior via the CA.
It's a non-trivial job, but is doable in principle. You'd want to study this in detail:
ebikes.ca/product-info/grin-products/cycle-analyst-3.html
@@GrinTechnologies Thank you for the answer, will check that out !
To bad my defective eRider torque sensor (brand new from china) killed my new CA3.. I guess because it drew exessive current. The shop i bought it from (not Grin) will not help me. So i will have to open it and look what burnt. It is my second system - CA3+eRider are quite nice when working correctly. Cheers from Germany
Assuming you were running at more than 52V nominal? In most cases a bad PAS/Torque sensor that draws excessive current will cause Diode D3 to get blown which is an easy repair described here: endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=37964&start=2600#p992104
@@GrinTechnologies Hey thank you for the reply! I found that thread today, before checking YT, while searching for the D3 diode. 😁 It is indeed blown! My battery was a 13s Li-ion -so nominal 48V. Could you tell me if there is a way to check if the is DN2470 working as intended with a multimeter? It looks a bit rough on the outside.
Also thank you for the latest firmware release, finally 36 PAS poles for the T9/T13 torque sensor 👍
And finally, after many years the CA3 existed, a video is made about its intricacies. Has development come to a halt? Peak CA3?
Still not peaked, there is a 3.2 FW release on the horizon!
Great video, Robbie. I learned several things. My question, tho, is this: Every time I ride with my wife she wants to know what number PAS level she is in before starting to peddle. The previous Bafang style controller must have permanently programmed her to look for this number. It really is the only number she wants to see, and I am at a loss as to how to give her this bit of info. Any ideas? (Married 38 years so divorce is out)
Hey Bill, just tap the MFSwitch up/down button and you'll see where it is at. Otherwise, you can also set it up to always power on with PAS level at zero, this is an option you can select in the AuxD setup menu.
The audio quality is great in this video.
Is it Bluetooth?
You guys are soo awesome
It's about time.
Can that MF switch be purchased separately from the CA ?
Yes, but the one with the on/off button needs custom wiring to hook up the on/off control to the CA's power, you can't just plug it in to a CA that doesn't have the mating 5pin waterproof connector on it.
@@GrinTechnologies ok thanks for clarifying. Might need to get another CA that comes with that switch pre hooked up
You should ho through each menu in the setup screen..more detailed tuning. Its the most confusing part
That is the next video planned for the CA.
Just be prepared for a long one with almost 90 settings in total to explain.
@@GrinTechnologies thank you! The longer the better haha lots of details please. I have 3 CAs
It's too bad the manual isn't more complete, so you don't have to search all over creation for videos explaining various ins and outs of particular settings.
Complex devices require comprehensive manuals.
We figured at 36 pages long it was at a good tradeoff of length vs digestibility: ebikes.ca/documents/CycleAnalyst_V31_Web.pdf
For more details on ALL the settings, there is a tooltip explaining the purpose and function in the CA setup utility software. Either hover your mouse over the setting of interest, or go to help->help and you will see a help file with each and every setting fully described.
You really should make a Bluetooth version, and an Android app. Much more flexible.
Great video, thank you!
My grammar nazi stiffens to the spelling of *_diagnostics_* as *_diagonistics._* I'm agonized. :)
You should make a thinner and sleeker version of the cycle analyst. As it looks now, it makes any ebike look "illegal".
The screen looks so dated.
Ha ha, somebody didn't click the "show more" link in the youtube video description and read to the end ;-)
@@GrinTechnologies haha gotcha! But my criticism would also work for tech-minded people that just want an update on technology that is proven to work well :)
Nope.
@@GrinTechnologies TBH, I could see a big improvement in readability of the information presented with a good reflective or transflective monochrome (I'd avoid color!) graphic display, something like the 2-3" Sharp Memory LCDs (but this isn't as power-sensitive of a use case, so it could be a conventional reflective or transflective active matrix LCD), instead of a character display.
Things like graphs can be more detailed, more information can be presented in graph form, text can be easier to read and things more spelled out, and additional text to give a better idea of what's going on can be used.
(Admittedly, I've not actually used a Cycle Analyst, though, but I do use a device with a similar character LCD (a ScanGauge II) for additional OBD-based instrumentation in my car.)
@@henrievery-3eye relax. My criticism is justified. If the diy route keeps stuck on ancient interfaces with 12 menu screens then diy is no longer interesting