When Lou said he didn’t like something about Kalkwasser @56:00 , he talked about the growth of a branch grown in 8.2 pH with 440 Ca and Alk of 7 not being as brittle as a branch from the same species growing in 8.4-8.6 pH with 600 Ca and Alk of 11. The problem is that most tanks that are doing nothing to correct pH, have a suppressed pH of 7.8-8.0, and without Kalk or something to correct their pH closer to seawater, they are never getting to 8.2. Most who use Kalk are just trying to get to 8.2 or 8.3 pH. If you are going beyond that, you are in the fastlane/trailblazer category and that is a very small % of the people using Kalk. Chris Meckley, for example, talks about achieving a flat line of 8.29 pH, which is closer to Lou’s 8.2 strong branch than the 8.4-8.6 brittle branch Lou is talking about. He also sneaks in wild amounts of Ca and Alk for the branch grown with Kalk, but Ca and Alk need not be that high to achieve corrected pH (8.2-8.3) with Kalk. It’s also strange that he dings Kalk saying that in a healthy tank, Kalk can’t keep up with Calcium and then dings Kalk in a scenario where the Calcium is wildly high. Btw - Meckley recommends monitoring calcium and keeping it below 500. Lou seems like a great guy. But his argument here against Kalk seems illogical to me. Possibly it’s a biased argument because Kalk is nearly free compared to the cost of replacement products, which his company sells. Possibly I’m not understanding something. Either way, Lou seems genuine, and I’m not trying to target him here. I just want fair arguments to be brought against Kalkwasser, so we can all learn what is best. Kalk is just a tool, like any product Tropic Marin sells. Kalk doesn’t require you to dose to 8.4-8.6 pH with Ca of 600 and Alk of 11; similarly one isn’t required to overdose any of the products Tropic Marin sells.
I came here to say this. He skips right over natural seawater pH of 8.3. He also says that saltwater tanks want to naturally balance out at 8.3. This might be true outside, but not in a house full of people exhaling CO2. Running a skimmer line outside can give a pH bump, but it isn't an "easy solution," like he says. Some people have high CO2 environments and need to run alkalinity higher to keep a natural seawater pH. He gives some good info, and Tropic Marin is legendary. There is no reason to give questionable examples to push their products.
I’d like to add from 10:38 Corals don’t care as much about nitrate because it is not a limiting reactant in marine ecosystems. In the ocean the limiting nutrient reactant is often times phosphate
An incredibly information dense video. I'm really digging Tropic Marin's approach, and just learning which and how to use their products pushes my reef keeping knowledge further even before I buy a single product. It's a lot more nuanced than other brands.
Adam gonna go down as a goat in this for sure. All the knowledge he has, and has gained from this podcast alone and being able to provide this info for coral junkies like myself. Keep it up!
Lou is a great guy! Phos start and phos feed is incredible! No joke my sps and LPS corals are doing phenomenal even since I began using phos start and now I’m transitioned into phos feed . Lou gave me some at rap to try out and not long after testing it out I stocked up on more because the results were amazing. Great episode 🤙
Question for Lou regarding the simple or long carbon forms to reduce nutrients in his product line. Im considering starting the Reef Actif, but also currently have higher nitrates and phosphates. So then looked at the Elim NP which contains 'polyalcohols" as the ingredient. Is this the same as using, say, vodka, that its going to be feeding the bad and good bacteria, if its an alcohol? Or do polyalcohols have the longer chain type we do want?
At around 32:00 on the topic of carbon dosing, Lou is talking about longer carbon chains and avoiding short chains, selling their "bio actif" BUT, all for reef and carbo calcium dose calcium formate -- the shortest carbon chain of 1 👀
This should be talked about more especially in relation to carbon dosing bioavailability to such bad guys. Ie…vibrio outbreak survives and thrives inside acro causing stn all because of using afr vs balling.
Also their liquid carbon dosing line is monomer based that has bioavailability for good and bad guys that may cause an abundance of rtn/stn causing bacteria.
This ties into your antibiotic question and I don’t believe the research has been conducted. I’m switching to balling from afr due to risk factor. Negating short chain carbon import.
Great show! FYI Fedex dropped off another coral package and asked where the snarky note was :) I told them they are at 2 out of 3 and at 3 out of 4 successful deliveries they get a prize... Cheers Bud. Thanks for all the help
Hey Adam - I always skip the intro until this one and then I heard people are not subscribing - probably most skip the intro so ask them to subscribe early on when chatting with the guest ;)
I have a question for Lou. You recommend having between 0.1 and 0.15 ppm phosphate, but also dosing particulate phosphate. Won't we be creating excess phosphate if we do both? Which is better? I would say that the ideal is the phosphate that enters with the fish or coral food in particles, or the one processed by the fish, it is the closest to natural, although having a phosphate above 0'15 is the easiest and most economical.
I think the phosfeed will get used pretty fast and not really accumulate in a well stocked system with a lot of corals, but I would definitely be careful with it if PO4 is already 'elevated'
He seems to preface things with “I’m not a scientist , biologist , microbiologist or chemist” and then goes on to make pretty significant chemistry and microbiology claims. Not super impressed with his explanations, I like the postulations and questions but he contradicted some functional things all reefers do or add in their tanks …
I think I know a few of the moments, but I do think Lou is really good at explaining and bridging the science side of things to the hobbyist in an understandable way. He is a hobbyist after all, but also representing a business (which of course will have some biases). These podcasts are for people to consider things and to take or leave what they want from them. I do intend to ask other guests some of the same questions, to bring some clarity. I couple of my big questions never really got addressed!
@@fraggarage5922 I probably was a bit harsh and cynical upon second review. He seems like a good guy , interested in hearing an RandD scientists take on things
There is only one reason they don't use and create products for calcium reactor and kalkwasser ,it's profit. All companies promote balling to make money, instead create trace elements for calcium reactor that give them tiny profit compared to balling, that is why calcium reactors are so expensive as well, to get as much as they can from you at beginning and prevent from smaller tanks to use it. They do all for reef expensive so why not create special balance trace reception for reactor? 🤑🤑🤑🤑
Great show. I got to say you have to be careful what you take away from what Lou is saying. I would not want my po4 swinging all the time. I don't think it works the same way as particulate phosphates falling on coral and getting consumed and washed away. So newbies beware.
@@rowgegaming5048 That is what he said. I am saying more emphasis should be put on that he is not talking about the same phosphates you check wiith Hannah checkers lol. You know, for the new guys.
Good point. I think it's important to have the base level of phosphate quite stable and the fluctuation of nutrients that happens on a reef might be comparative to the addition of a product like Phosfeed, Reef Roids, etc. That should be absorbed pretty fast in a medium to heavily stocked system, then drop down to that base level again.
Be much more successful Dawson to see Lou enjoy this episode, my opinion has either Moray is the best way to add nutrients to the aquarium. He’s a perfect core reef companion, that just shits everywhere. Adults bring on the phosphates!!!
I like Lou but I’m starting to question his advice. He’s coming off more as a salesman these days and less of an educator. There is a lot of new published research on the bacteria affecting corals and Lou’s info is a little dated and really seems to support his products more than the science.
Man, thank you for doing this podcast Adam, helps fill the void left by Jake.
When Lou said he didn’t like something about Kalkwasser @56:00 , he talked about the growth of a branch grown in 8.2 pH with 440 Ca and Alk of 7 not being as brittle as a branch from the same species growing in 8.4-8.6 pH with 600 Ca and Alk of 11. The problem is that most tanks that are doing nothing to correct pH, have a suppressed pH of 7.8-8.0, and without Kalk or something to correct their pH closer to seawater, they are never getting to 8.2. Most who use Kalk are just trying to get to 8.2 or 8.3 pH. If you are going beyond that, you are in the fastlane/trailblazer category and that is a very small % of the people using Kalk. Chris Meckley, for example, talks about achieving a flat line of 8.29 pH, which is closer to Lou’s 8.2 strong branch than the 8.4-8.6 brittle branch Lou is talking about.
He also sneaks in wild amounts of Ca and Alk for the branch grown with Kalk, but Ca and Alk need not be that high to achieve corrected pH (8.2-8.3) with Kalk. It’s also strange that he dings Kalk saying that in a healthy tank, Kalk can’t keep up with Calcium and then dings Kalk in a scenario where the Calcium is wildly high. Btw - Meckley recommends monitoring calcium and keeping it below 500.
Lou seems like a great guy. But his argument here against Kalk seems illogical to me. Possibly it’s a biased argument because Kalk is nearly free compared to the cost of replacement products, which his company sells. Possibly I’m not understanding something. Either way, Lou seems genuine, and I’m not trying to target him here. I just want fair arguments to be brought against Kalkwasser, so we can all learn what is best. Kalk is just a tool, like any product Tropic Marin sells. Kalk doesn’t require you to dose to 8.4-8.6 pH with Ca of 600 and Alk of 11; similarly one isn’t required to overdose any of the products Tropic Marin sells.
He similarly dissuaded on dosing ethanol and acetic acid as carbon sources -- cheap and available.
I came here to say this. He skips right over natural seawater pH of 8.3. He also says that saltwater tanks want to naturally balance out at 8.3. This might be true outside, but not in a house full of people exhaling CO2. Running a skimmer line outside can give a pH bump, but it isn't an "easy solution," like he says. Some people have high CO2 environments and need to run alkalinity higher to keep a natural seawater pH. He gives some good info, and Tropic Marin is legendary. There is no reason to give questionable examples to push their products.
Agreed Kalkwasser is amazing and so is Vodka😊
Such a great pod cast!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I’d like to add from 10:38 Corals don’t care as much about nitrate because it is not a limiting reactant in marine ecosystems. In the ocean the limiting nutrient reactant is often times phosphate
Is there an Instagram or a forum build thread or something for the guy whose corals are being shown here? They're fire!
They sure are! Photos are all provided by Leonardo's Reef: instagram.com/leonardos_reef/
An incredibly information dense video. I'm really digging Tropic Marin's approach, and just learning which and how to use their products pushes my reef keeping knowledge further even before I buy a single product. It's a lot more nuanced than other brands.
Adam this podcast has really became my go to podcast. Keep up the good work. Great convo with Lou
What were some of the first products made by Tropic 60 70 years ago?
Adam gonna go down as a goat in this for sure. All the knowledge he has, and has gained from this podcast alone and being able to provide this info for coral junkies like myself. Keep it up!
Lou is a great guy! Phos start and phos feed is incredible! No joke my sps and LPS corals are doing phenomenal even since I began using phos start and now I’m transitioned into phos feed . Lou gave me some at rap to try out and not long after testing it out I stocked up on more because the results were amazing. Great episode 🤙
Question for Lou regarding the simple or long carbon forms to reduce nutrients in his product line. Im considering starting the Reef Actif, but also currently have higher nitrates and phosphates. So then looked at the Elim NP which contains 'polyalcohols" as the ingredient. Is this the same as using, say, vodka, that its going to be feeding the bad and good bacteria, if its an alcohol? Or do polyalcohols have the longer chain type we do want?
At around 32:00 on the topic of carbon dosing, Lou is talking about longer carbon chains and avoiding short chains, selling their "bio actif" BUT, all for reef and carbo calcium dose calcium formate -- the shortest carbon chain of 1 👀
This should be talked about more especially in relation to carbon dosing bioavailability to such bad guys. Ie…vibrio outbreak survives and thrives inside acro causing stn all because of using afr vs balling.
Also their liquid carbon dosing line is monomer based that has bioavailability for good and bad guys that may cause an abundance of rtn/stn causing bacteria.
Interesting.. I wonder if people using AFR are having more issues with RTN and BJD?. I'll try to get an answer from Lou on this..
This ties into your antibiotic question and I don’t believe the research has been conducted. I’m switching to balling from afr due to risk factor. Negating short chain carbon import.
Is NP Bacto balance the short or long chain type of carbon. Anyone know?
Great episode Adam 👍
Great show! FYI Fedex dropped off another coral package and asked where the snarky note was :) I told them they are at 2 out of 3 and at 3 out of 4 successful deliveries they get a prize... Cheers Bud. Thanks for all the help
Hey Adam - I always skip the intro until this one and then I heard people are not subscribing - probably most skip the intro so ask them to subscribe early on when chatting with the guest ;)
hmm, good point. Maybe I'll put a little quick blurb in the middle of the podcasts for like 10 seconds.. thanks!
Anyone know if NP Bacto Balance is the short or long chain carbon ?
Short, but claimed to feed the least bad guys in a liquid solution based on testing / observation.
What’s the difference between PhosFeed and Reef Actif?
I have a question for Lou. You recommend having between 0.1 and 0.15 ppm phosphate, but also dosing particulate phosphate. Won't we be creating excess phosphate if we do both? Which is better? I would say that the ideal is the phosphate that enters with the fish or coral food in particles, or the one processed by the fish, it is the closest to natural, although having a phosphate above 0'15 is the easiest and most economical.
I think the phosfeed will get used pretty fast and not really accumulate in a well stocked system with a lot of corals, but I would definitely be careful with it if PO4 is already 'elevated'
Love this if you want a UK Reefer as a guest I'm down!
All ways enjoy your show
He seems to preface things with “I’m not a scientist , biologist , microbiologist or chemist” and then goes on to make pretty significant chemistry and microbiology claims. Not super impressed with his explanations, I like the postulations and questions but he contradicted some functional things all reefers do or add in their tanks …
I think I know a few of the moments, but I do think Lou is really good at explaining and bridging the science side of things to the hobbyist in an understandable way. He is a hobbyist after all, but also representing a business (which of course will have some biases). These podcasts are for people to consider things and to take or leave what they want from them. I do intend to ask other guests some of the same questions, to bring some clarity. I couple of my big questions never really got addressed!
@@fraggarage5922 I probably was a bit harsh and cynical upon second review. He seems like a good guy , interested in hearing an RandD scientists take on things
Mixing more reef roids after watching this 😂
There is only one reason they don't use and create products for calcium reactor and kalkwasser ,it's profit. All companies promote balling to make money, instead create trace elements for calcium reactor that give them tiny profit compared to balling, that is why calcium reactors are so expensive as well, to get as much as they can from you at beginning and prevent from smaller tanks to use it. They do all for reef expensive so why not create special balance trace reception for reactor? 🤑🤑🤑🤑
Great show. I got to say you have to be careful what you take away from what Lou is saying. I would not want my po4 swinging all the time. I don't think it works the same way as particulate phosphates falling on coral and getting consumed and washed away. So newbies beware.
what I heard Lou say was that particulate phosphate pulses on the reef 24/7
@@rowgegaming5048 That is what he said. I am saying more emphasis should be put on that he is not talking about the same phosphates you check wiith Hannah checkers lol. You know, for the new guys.
Good point. I think it's important to have the base level of phosphate quite stable and the fluctuation of nutrients that happens on a reef might be comparative to the addition of a product like Phosfeed, Reef Roids, etc. That should be absorbed pretty fast in a medium to heavily stocked system, then drop down to that base level again.
👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
Be much more successful Dawson to see Lou enjoy this episode, my opinion has either Moray is the best way to add nutrients to the aquarium. He’s a perfect core reef companion, that just shits everywhere. Adults bring on the phosphates!!!
Thank you for the Spanish subtitles
Oh do they work? good to know! cheers
BIOTOPE ! 😁
Hahah yes!! Thank you
I like Lou but I’m starting to question his advice. He’s coming off more as a salesman these days and less of an educator. There is a lot of new published research on the bacteria affecting corals and Lou’s info is a little dated and really seems to support his products more than the science.
I dose my makeup in kalk and supplement with ALL FOR REEF works excellent
Great conversation wouldn’t reef roids do what he is saying for particulate po4 uptake??
I think the Phosfeed in more directly bio available