And beyond. Bashir has been a doctor during a brutal war for nearly two years, and another before that. He lost Jadzia. He's been through a lot, even before Section 31 tore out his Federation idealism.
@@SSJ3Mewtwo I agree with everything that's already been said. Not much more I could add to it. Bashir (and O'Brien) did what they had to do to save Odo's life, and since Odo is one of my all-time favorite Trek characters, I'm certainly glad they ultimately succeeded. 😊
I adore the "I just... like you more" conversation is so good. It shows just how deep their friendship has become over the seven seasons, starting with Bashir driving O'Brien to distraction, them slowly growing closer as they find common ground, Bashir showing sometimes that his ego hides a lot of self-doubt... They are the best friendship in all Star Trek.
With Bashir as an Augment, Sloan was lucky he got the Romulan memory scanner. Sloan could have gotten the Chekov treatment ("Allow me to introduce you to the only remaining indigenous life-form from Ceti Alpha V").
Now that I think about it Garak would have been the more logical companion to Bashir for "Extreme Measures," given his background. "A Romulan memory scanner? Really Doctor, where's the fun in that? Just give me fifteen minutes alone with him, and Odo will be cured before you know it." But, this is a bottle show, and I guess Andrew Robinson would've put the episode over budget.
@@MrSaywutnow O'Brien had been scripted for this role for a long time. He and Bashir had discussed the issue for several episodes since they first found out about Section 31's involvement, whereas I don't think Garak was even aware of it. This sort of cooperation was also set up in "Shadows and Symbols." Besides, I don't see why Garak would be willing to help Bashir.
@@EebstertheGreat It would have been easy to write Garak in - he could have been the one who obtained the memory scanner for Bashir, for example. And Garak would absolutely jump at the opportunity - a former Obsidian Order operative getting to test his mettle against Section 31, which is basically the Federation's equivalent. I also think he'd be keen just at the chance to engage in some cloak-and-dagger work like the "good old days." We all saw how he jumped at the opportunity to help (i.e. manipulate) Sisko in "In the Pale Moonlight." I also think Garak could have been there as a counterpoint to O'Brien. Miles is there in the episode acting as Bashir's conscience, to remind him of his idealism and optimism. Garak would have been a natural avatar for the darker impulses that have led Bashir down the path he has travelled.
@@MrSaywutnow Garak mostly wants to win the war. That's why he helped Sisko. I don't imagine he would assist in finding a cure for the plague that represents the quadrant's only chance. But of course, you could write him to agree if you want. I just think O'Brien is a way more natural choice for this episode given all the leadup.
I'm no advocate of cruel and unusual punishment or torture, but I can't help but feel that O'Brien and Bashir could've saved themselves from a whole lot of headache and Inception-plotting if only they'd just given Sloan a big, fat Melvin.
@@CaptainJZH Personality-wise they have some noticeable differences, as we see on the few occasions she got a chance to do much, and they really didn't do a lot showing the two together. Ezri really needed another season.
He probably doesn't love her, just intends to ask her out and still has deep, unreciprocated feelings for Jadzia. But the reason he brought it up was to tell Miles that he's in love with him, in the only way Rick Berman would allow. And that was very well established.
@@EebstertheGreat It really isn't. So far as I know, nothing by any of the actors or writers has ever said this. With Garak, yes, according to Siddig. With Miles, no.
"Where's Sloan?" "He died, after you disconnected from his mind." "WHERE'S SLOAN?" "You killed his clone. Do you really think he'd come here, alone, in what could be a trap?" "Well, then why did this clone's mind have the cure?" "He must've wanted you to have it." "We could've died." "He must've wanted you to earn it." Anyway, I somehow doubt Sloan is dead.
Like the Mirror Universe never getting better then the first episode it was introduced in Section 31 never got better then DS9 and the always awesome William Sadler. I loathed that Section 31 started appearing so much anytime they needed a spy agency in Trek, showed up in Enterprise (as pretty much 1 guy to their credit), Discovery with their own fleet and organization that seemed well known for a secret organization, and I think even in the Kelvin timeline with Admiral Marcus. Even have their own spin-off series now. None as good as episodes like this though.
I liked the Enterprise one. It made sense and was quite a surprise. It was still very much a secret. Even if Archer tried to make it public, it would have been hushed up immediately. Two hundred years later, of course the idea of it would be long gone. And while I agree that it wasn’t as good as DS9 as section 31, that’s because there was never a Section 31 episode. It’s an entrée here. On Enterprise it was a side dish. A great side dish in my opinion, but it was never going to or meant to complete with a great entrée. After that though? Making it so public? I agree. That made no sense. A show about them could work, but not in that way.
Like with Garek, S31 is most effective when both used sparingly and with good writers. Since "dark", "gritty", and "bleak" became go-to TV trends by the time STD was out. They went to the S31 well, emptied it, then drained the ground of all the moisture, since there was no writing talent on the team.
Even with the Kelvin timeline's version of Section 31, you could buy that they were just a low-key intelligence department that Admiral Marcus had commandeered and upgraded into his own private army after the destruction of Vulcan, as Kirk clearly had no idea who they were when Marcus first told him about them. Unlike in Discovery, where they pretty much act like the Federation's answer to the FBI.
The Weird Sci-Fi morality thing that this episode makes me think about, is if killing a Hive-Mind counts as Geno or Homocide? I think it's the later which is why I'm more or less OK with Section 31's approach, as I understood it, Changelings don't have individual personalities unless/until they separate from the Great Link, meaning that the Great Link is 100% culpable for all that transpired.
Taking the data pads represents taking the time to read Sloan's thoughts and understand what it represents, and they did not have time to do that much mind reading.
I thought there wasn’t an O'Brien suffers episode of season 7, but then O'Brien had to talk to Bashir about how he likes him more than he likes his wife as they both lay injured in the mind of a dying man. For most people, that would be the most unimaginably worse day of their lives, but that’s just the universe getting crafty.
I remember reading somewhere that Colm Meaney had flat out REFUSED read the lines and have O'Brien say he loved Bashir, even as a friend. His feeling was that O'Brien 100% unconditionally loved his wife and couldn't love any other person. Ever. Period. End of discussion. Why are we even talking about this?
This episode always annoyed me: why would Section 31 make a cure in the first place? I thought the point was to make it so it couldn't be cured, even if you had the resources of a galactic empire running full tilt to try to discover a cure.
The most likely made the cure as a bargaining chip, and it's likely that they had to make a cure to fully understand that the disease was effective. You can't know it's going to be effective unless you know that it can only be cured in one really obscure way.
They might need to interrogate or bargain with a Founder at some point before the genocide is complete. They might even hope to force a surrender with a rump of the species still not dead yet, then (working through the Federation's foreign policy apparatus) provide the cure as a condition of disarmament, thus sparing the Federation at least some moral obloquy.
@@hariman7727Spot on and even if the disease had worked that would still leave the Vorta and the Jem Hadar whom would most definitely be looking for revenge after their gods had been effectively slaughtered.
So here's one thing I find extremely weird about this episode: Why would the Romulans invent a device like this? It does nothing they can't functionally already do by being biologically Vulcan, and probably in a safer way too.
I always hated this one. They needed Sloan's capture and suicide to happen quickly, to make more room for the rest of the plot, but it ends up feeling like he went down like a chump.
Maybe he named himself after Lily? I could easily believe that Sloan isn't even his real name, just one he adopted when he joined Section 31 so he couldn't be connected to his old life and his family.
I do wish they took Sloan comment that Bashir isn’t just a naive idealist but something dangerous a bit further. The episode hints of Bashir doing what it takes to stop section 31 using romulan mind probes without the consent of the patient. However the episode didn’t really explore the moral implications of this. Sloan and section 31 does what he does as he believe in doing what it takes to preserve civilization or the utopian federation. If Bashir was willing to bend his morals and do what it takes to stop Section 31 due to them committing genocide against the founders as he believed this is abhorrent to Federation ideals. Is he just another Sloan. Doesn’t this prove Section 31 needs to exist that there are evils that are such a threat to civilisation that you have to break morality rules. It just that Bashir focus this to section 31 while Sloan focus on foreign powers. Sloan comments that Bashir was dangerous would have been correct. It would have been interesting episode of exploring this duality of Bashir being convinced Section 31 needs to be stopped. Bashir slowly “does what it takes” to stop them and O’Brien being the voice of reason to stop him going over the edge with the conclusion that if Section 31 is going to be stopped it has to be with Federation ideals ie. exposing the secrecy of the organisation to the public and using democratic means to get rid of or modify the program
Eh. It reduces to the question of whether violence is morally permissible specifically in response to violence, and the Federation has never had or sought much in the way of pacifist credentials. (Or really any sort of moral consistency, but that's more a fault on the part of the writers.)
@@OhShitSeriously The point is that the Dominion enacted violence on the Federation, and Section 31 countered that with violence of their own, believing it necessary even in violation of the law. Then Bashir saw Section 31 enacting violence and countered that with violence of his own, believing it necessary even in violation of the law. Next, will someone else continue the cycle? I'm not saying there's no difference at all between Section 31 and Bashir in this case, but it's a thin difference, and basically the same logic is at play.
One thing that doesn't hold up about Section 31 using Odo to infect the Great Link: the Founders showed signs of the disease looong before Odo did. And there's no reason why he as patient zero shouldn't have succumbed first.
I can only think of 2 explanations. The first one was he was only meant to be a carrier and wasn't supposed to show symptoms. The second real reason was that the writers haven't thought of having him be the carrier yet.
As previously mentioned, Odo getting sick was something that was decided later. The in-universe explanation is that Odo was originally made to be immune but a carrier by Section 31 but that immunity was lost when he was turned into a solid. Then he was actually infected later when linking with the Female Changeling.
It wouldn't surprise me if they somehow suppressed the disease from manifesting in Odo until long after the founders got infected and started to degrade. Since that would identify him as patient zero, and therefore would have altered both Bashir and the Dominion far sooner as to where it came from, and where their cure efforts would get focused on.
@@noblehelium3794 Actually yeah that timeline makes sense, plus the Changelings themselves poisoned Odo - presumably when that changeling at Starfleet tried to forcibly link with him in Homefront - which lines up with when Odo was examined at Starfleet Medical and infected with the Section 31 virus. And it's possible Section 31 noticed the Changeling-imposed virus in his test results and that's where they got the idea to make their own virus that would be significantly harder to cure (which would be a nice touch since it would mean the Founders were partly responsible for their own near-extinction). So the timeline would go: - Founders create their own temporary virus to punish Odo and force him to return to the Great Link for judgement - Odo goes to Starfleet HQ to help with the Changeling infiltration crisis - A Changeling impersonating a Starfleet officer forcibly links with Odo, infecting him with the Founder Virus - Odo is examined by Starfleet Medical - The early stages of the Founder Virus show up in his results, alerting Section 31, who make their own virus for him to infect the Founders with - Odo, an uninfected carrier for the Section 31 Virus, returns to the Great Link and infects the Founders - Odo is turned into a Solid, and later reverts back into a Changeling, removing the immunity as his genetic makeup would have been altered by the infant changeling bonding itself with him - Odo links with the Female Changeling, infecting him with the non-carrier version of the Section 31 Virus, putting his infection on a later timescale than the rest of the Founders (also note that his condition was exacerbated by having to change form so often)
It makes sense for Odo to be originally immune anyway. Section 31 had no way of knowing when Odo would actually make contact with the Founders and infect them, and him dying in the meantime would not be useful.
Remember watching this, Bashir IS bi, it's canon now thanks to Lower Decks...well a version of a Bashir Hologram based off his personality is in a relationship with a version of Garrick anyway...Lower Decks is having fun as it wraps up with some multiverse stuff.
It's not just that Bashir and Garak were cordial early in the series, or that Garak clearly had a thing for him. I've been told the slash fiction of the two goes to very, very weird places.
Yes, the lack of creativity makes it feel like "just another day at the office"! This is why I don't like this episode. It feels so mundane considering what Bashir and O'Brien are doing here. The whole thing should be much more interesting.
@@JosephDavies Exactly! I don't even expect too much spectacular imagery, just a little bit of creativity while visually depicting the infiltration of another human being's brain ...
13:51 I'm not the type of person to be shipping-crazed, but this isn't the first time the writers have suggested, within the means of the times, that Miles and Julian would have a little thing going, given the opportunity. Sometimes, the answer indeed is: "gay" or "bi".
I disagree. I think their intention was a purely platonic relationship between them. They wanted to emphasize that you can love some one in a non-romantic sense and that sometimes your friends can be just as important to your life as your partner is.
I think that's clearly what they were going for. "I love you a bit more. There, I said it." He's directly comparing his love for Ezri (or really Jadzia) to his greater love for Miles. When Miles repeatedly tries to deflect by saying "I love my wife," Julian doesn't say "I don't mean it like that," he just straight-up disagrees. Don't you love me more than your wife? Well, no, he doesn't. I think the conversation would have been a lot clearer if not for Rick Berman's involvement, but it's still pretty clear.
Bashir just zapping Sloan with a phaser as a "fuck you" was great.
But also a sign of Bashir's morals having been pushed to their limits.
And beyond. Bashir has been a doctor during a brutal war for nearly two years, and another before that. He lost Jadzia. He's been through a lot, even before Section 31 tore out his Federation idealism.
There is also the issue that Sloan might have something up his sleeve to incapacitate Dr. Bashir if he gets too close.
Yes -- I share all these sentiments.
@@rachelnesser9223 Any thoughts of your own?
@@SSJ3Mewtwo I agree with everything that's already been said. Not much more I could add to it. Bashir (and O'Brien) did what they had to do to save Odo's life, and since Odo is one of my all-time favorite Trek characters, I'm certainly glad they ultimately succeeded. 😊
This episode was inception, at least 12 years before inception came out.
Bashir and O'Brien are the goat.
Good ol’ Bash’rien (or O’Brieshir?) episodes are the best ones imo.
@@Blimbus-Blombo hell yes! :)
I liked that O'Brien did well here. Bashir might be a super-genius of some sort, but everyone has their blind spots.
Yes, my thoughts exactly.
I adore the "I just... like you more" conversation is so good. It shows just how deep their friendship has become over the seven seasons, starting with Bashir driving O'Brien to distraction, them slowly growing closer as they find common ground, Bashir showing sometimes that his ego hides a lot of self-doubt... They are the best friendship in all Star Trek.
With Bashir as an Augment, Sloan was lucky he got the Romulan memory scanner. Sloan could have gotten the Chekov treatment ("Allow me to introduce you to the only remaining indigenous life-form from Ceti Alpha V").
I'd like to think in a particular alternate universe, it was EMH Bashir and Dr Garak that went on this adventure.
Ah yes, I could see that.😊👍🏻
Now that I think about it Garak would have been the more logical companion to Bashir for "Extreme Measures," given his background.
"A Romulan memory scanner? Really Doctor, where's the fun in that? Just give me fifteen minutes alone with him, and Odo will be cured before you know it."
But, this is a bottle show, and I guess Andrew Robinson would've put the episode over budget.
@@MrSaywutnow O'Brien had been scripted for this role for a long time. He and Bashir had discussed the issue for several episodes since they first found out about Section 31's involvement, whereas I don't think Garak was even aware of it. This sort of cooperation was also set up in "Shadows and Symbols." Besides, I don't see why Garak would be willing to help Bashir.
@@EebstertheGreat It would have been easy to write Garak in - he could have been the one who obtained the memory scanner for Bashir, for example.
And Garak would absolutely jump at the opportunity - a former Obsidian Order operative getting to test his mettle against Section 31, which is basically the Federation's equivalent. I also think he'd be keen just at the chance to engage in some cloak-and-dagger work like the "good old days." We all saw how he jumped at the opportunity to help (i.e. manipulate) Sisko in "In the Pale Moonlight."
I also think Garak could have been there as a counterpoint to O'Brien. Miles is there in the episode acting as Bashir's conscience, to remind him of his idealism and optimism. Garak would have been a natural avatar for the darker impulses that have led Bashir down the path he has travelled.
@@MrSaywutnow Garak mostly wants to win the war. That's why he helped Sisko. I don't imagine he would assist in finding a cure for the plague that represents the quadrant's only chance. But of course, you could write him to agree if you want. I just think O'Brien is a way more natural choice for this episode given all the leadup.
There was never a better time for this video with the release of the new section 31 movie
The actors of sloan and obrien were in diehard two.
Yeah, Sloan killed O'Brien in that film. So this episode is like Miles' payback.
@@Renegade2786 Yippie Kay yay :D.
Probably Christopher Nolan’s favorite Star Trek episode “Stealing secrets from a dreamscape, eh?”
I'm no advocate of cruel and unusual punishment or torture, but I can't help but feel that O'Brien and Bashir could've saved themselves from a whole lot of headache and Inception-plotting if only they'd just given Sloan a big, fat Melvin.
Ah yes, the deep love Bashir feels for Ezri. Which has been so well established... mumble mumble.
*the love he felt for Jadzia, whose memories are now held by another person who is also attractive so hey why not
@@CaptainJZH Personality-wise they have some noticeable differences, as we see on the few occasions she got a chance to do much, and they really didn't do a lot showing the two together. Ezri really needed another season.
He probably doesn't love her, just intends to ask her out and still has deep, unreciprocated feelings for Jadzia. But the reason he brought it up was to tell Miles that he's in love with him, in the only way Rick Berman would allow. And that was very well established.
@@EebstertheGreat It really isn't. So far as I know, nothing by any of the actors or writers has ever said this. With Garak, yes, according to Siddig. With Miles, no.
@@MrGranten That can be their opinion, but the characters aren't the actors.
"Where's Sloan?"
"He died, after you disconnected from his mind."
"WHERE'S SLOAN?"
"You killed his clone. Do you really think he'd come here, alone, in what could be a trap?"
"Well, then why did this clone's mind have the cure?"
"He must've wanted you to have it."
"We could've died."
"He must've wanted you to earn it."
Anyway, I somehow doubt Sloan is dead.
Like the Mirror Universe never getting better then the first episode it was introduced in Section 31 never got better then DS9 and the always awesome William Sadler. I loathed that Section 31 started appearing so much anytime they needed a spy agency in Trek, showed up in Enterprise (as pretty much 1 guy to their credit), Discovery with their own fleet and organization that seemed well known for a secret organization, and I think even in the Kelvin timeline with Admiral Marcus. Even have their own spin-off series now. None as good as episodes like this though.
I liked the Enterprise one. It made sense and was quite a surprise. It was still very much a secret. Even if Archer tried to make it public, it would have been hushed up immediately. Two hundred years later, of course the idea of it would be long gone.
And while I agree that it wasn’t as good as DS9 as section 31, that’s because there was never a Section 31 episode. It’s an entrée here. On Enterprise it was a side dish. A great side dish in my opinion, but it was never going to or meant to complete with a great entrée.
After that though? Making it so public? I agree. That made no sense. A show about them could work, but not in that way.
Like with Garek, S31 is most effective when both used sparingly and with good writers. Since "dark", "gritty", and "bleak" became go-to TV trends by the time STD was out. They went to the S31 well, emptied it, then drained the ground of all the moisture, since there was no writing talent on the team.
Even with the Kelvin timeline's version of Section 31, you could buy that they were just a low-key intelligence department that Admiral Marcus had commandeered and upgraded into his own private army after the destruction of Vulcan, as Kirk clearly had no idea who they were when Marcus first told him about them. Unlike in Discovery, where they pretty much act like the Federation's answer to the FBI.
"Romulan memory scanner"? You mean a Klingon Mind-Sifter?
I love ya chuck
The "like your friend more than your mate" thing sounds confusing if you imagine it said in an English accent.
The Weird Sci-Fi morality thing that this episode makes me think about, is if killing a Hive-Mind counts as Geno or Homocide? I think it's the later which is why I'm more or less OK with Section 31's approach, as I understood it, Changelings don't have individual personalities unless/until they separate from the Great Link, meaning that the Great Link is 100% culpable for all that transpired.
One wacky episode!
I never understood ehy they didnt take more than one datapad. If one is easy to take, why not more???
Taking the data pads represents taking the time to read Sloan's thoughts and understand what it represents, and they did not have time to do that much mind reading.
6:31
Wasn't that a Junji Ito story? Without the Wonder Woman obviously given there is no way he'd get the rights.
I thought there wasn’t an O'Brien suffers episode of season 7, but then O'Brien had to talk to Bashir about how he likes him more than he likes his wife as they both lay injured in the mind of a dying man. For most people, that would be the most unimaginably worse day of their lives, but that’s just the universe getting crafty.
Thank you for saying the exact opposite of Ricky and Morty Trek.
I remember reading somewhere that Colm Meaney had flat out REFUSED read the lines and have O'Brien say he loved Bashir, even as a friend.
His feeling was that O'Brien 100% unconditionally loved his wife and couldn't love any other person. Ever. Period. End of discussion. Why are we even talking about this?
This episode always annoyed me: why would Section 31 make a cure in the first place?
I thought the point was to make it so it couldn't be cured, even if you had the resources of a galactic empire running full tilt to try to discover a cure.
The most likely made the cure as a bargaining chip, and it's likely that they had to make a cure to fully understand that the disease was effective.
You can't know it's going to be effective unless you know that it can only be cured in one really obscure way.
If you're deploying a BIOLOGICAL WEAPON then I'd certainly hope you have a cure on standby as pestilence knowns no boundaries.
They might need to interrogate or bargain with a Founder at some point before the genocide is complete.
They might even hope to force a surrender with a rump of the species still not dead yet, then (working through the Federation's foreign policy apparatus) provide the cure as a condition of disarmament, thus sparing the Federation at least some moral obloquy.
@@hariman7727Spot on and even if the disease had worked that would still leave the Vorta and the Jem Hadar whom would most definitely be looking for revenge after their gods had been effectively slaughtered.
The Cure was probably a "surrender and you get your Cure" deal.
So here's one thing I find extremely weird about this episode:
Why would the Romulans invent a device like this? It does nothing they can't functionally already do by being biologically Vulcan, and probably in a safer way too.
I always hated this one. They needed Sloan's capture and suicide to happen quickly, to make more room for the rest of the plot, but it ends up feeling like he went down like a chump.
Wait... Sloan? As in Lily Sloan from First Contact? She'd be ashamed of what her great-great grandson's become.
Maybe he named himself after Lily? I could easily believe that Sloan isn't even his real name, just one he adopted when he joined Section 31 so he couldn't be connected to his old life and his family.
I do wish they took Sloan comment that Bashir isn’t just a naive idealist but something dangerous a bit further. The episode hints of Bashir doing what it takes to stop section 31 using romulan mind probes without the consent of the patient. However the episode didn’t really explore the moral implications of this.
Sloan and section 31 does what he does as he believe in doing what it takes to preserve civilization or the utopian federation.
If Bashir was willing to bend his morals and do what it takes to stop Section 31 due to them committing genocide against the founders as he believed this is abhorrent to Federation ideals. Is he just another Sloan. Doesn’t this prove Section 31 needs to exist that there are evils that are such a threat to civilisation that you have to break morality rules. It just that Bashir focus this to section 31 while Sloan focus on foreign powers. Sloan comments that Bashir was dangerous would have been correct.
It would have been interesting episode of exploring this duality of Bashir being convinced Section 31 needs to be stopped. Bashir slowly “does what it takes” to stop them and O’Brien being the voice of reason to stop him going over the edge with the conclusion that if Section 31 is going to be stopped it has to be with Federation ideals ie. exposing the secrecy of the organisation to the public and using democratic means to get rid of or modify the program
Eh. It reduces to the question of whether violence is morally permissible specifically in response to violence, and the Federation has never had or sought much in the way of pacifist credentials. (Or really any sort of moral consistency, but that's more a fault on the part of the writers.)
@@OhShitSeriously The point is that the Dominion enacted violence on the Federation, and Section 31 countered that with violence of their own, believing it necessary even in violation of the law. Then Bashir saw Section 31 enacting violence and countered that with violence of his own, believing it necessary even in violation of the law. Next, will someone else continue the cycle? I'm not saying there's no difference at all between Section 31 and Bashir in this case, but it's a thin difference, and basically the same logic is at play.
One thing that doesn't hold up about Section 31 using Odo to infect the Great Link: the Founders showed signs of the disease looong before Odo did. And there's no reason why he as patient zero shouldn't have succumbed first.
I can only think of 2 explanations. The first one was he was only meant to be a carrier and wasn't supposed to show symptoms. The second real reason was that the writers haven't thought of having him be the carrier yet.
As previously mentioned, Odo getting sick was something that was decided later. The in-universe explanation is that Odo was originally made to be immune but a carrier by Section 31 but that immunity was lost when he was turned into a solid. Then he was actually infected later when linking with the Female Changeling.
It wouldn't surprise me if they somehow suppressed the disease from manifesting in Odo until long after the founders got infected and started to degrade. Since that would identify him as patient zero, and therefore would have altered both Bashir and the Dominion far sooner as to where it came from, and where their cure efforts would get focused on.
@@noblehelium3794 Actually yeah that timeline makes sense, plus the Changelings themselves poisoned Odo - presumably when that changeling at Starfleet tried to forcibly link with him in Homefront - which lines up with when Odo was examined at Starfleet Medical and infected with the Section 31 virus.
And it's possible Section 31 noticed the Changeling-imposed virus in his test results and that's where they got the idea to make their own virus that would be significantly harder to cure (which would be a nice touch since it would mean the Founders were partly responsible for their own near-extinction). So the timeline would go:
- Founders create their own temporary virus to punish Odo and force him to return to the Great Link for judgement
- Odo goes to Starfleet HQ to help with the Changeling infiltration crisis
- A Changeling impersonating a Starfleet officer forcibly links with Odo, infecting him with the Founder Virus
- Odo is examined by Starfleet Medical
- The early stages of the Founder Virus show up in his results, alerting Section 31, who make their own virus for him to infect the Founders with
- Odo, an uninfected carrier for the Section 31 Virus, returns to the Great Link and infects the Founders
- Odo is turned into a Solid, and later reverts back into a Changeling, removing the immunity as his genetic makeup would have been altered by the infant changeling bonding itself with him
- Odo links with the Female Changeling, infecting him with the non-carrier version of the Section 31 Virus, putting his infection on a later timescale than the rest of the Founders (also note that his condition was exacerbated by having to change form so often)
It makes sense for Odo to be originally immune anyway. Section 31 had no way of knowing when Odo would actually make contact with the Founders and infect them, and him dying in the meantime would not be useful.
Remember watching this, Bashir IS bi, it's canon now thanks to Lower Decks...well a version of a Bashir Hologram based off his personality is in a relationship with a version of Garrick anyway...Lower Decks is having fun as it wraps up with some multiverse stuff.
It's not just that Bashir and Garak were cordial early in the series, or that Garak clearly had a thing for him. I've been told the slash fiction of the two goes to very, very weird places.
@@EebstertheGreat Given what Trek canon says about Cardassian anatomy, it would have to.
Yes, the lack of creativity makes it feel like "just another day at the office"! This is why I don't like this episode. It feels so mundane considering what Bashir and O'Brien are doing here. The whole thing should be much more interesting.
It really would have been elevated by a unique and mysterious location.
@@JosephDavies Exactly! I don't even expect too much spectacular imagery, just a little bit of creativity while visually depicting the infiltration of another human being's brain ...
13:51 I'm not the type of person to be shipping-crazed, but this isn't the first time the writers have suggested, within the means of the times, that Miles and Julian would have a little thing going, given the opportunity. Sometimes, the answer indeed is: "gay" or "bi".
I disagree. I think their intention was a purely platonic relationship between them. They wanted to emphasize that you can love some one in a non-romantic sense and that sometimes your friends can be just as important to your life as your partner is.
@@takeru3159Yes, I agree with this.
@@takeru3159 straightwashing
I think that's clearly what they were going for. "I love you a bit more. There, I said it." He's directly comparing his love for Ezri (or really Jadzia) to his greater love for Miles. When Miles repeatedly tries to deflect by saying "I love my wife," Julian doesn't say "I don't mean it like that," he just straight-up disagrees. Don't you love me more than your wife? Well, no, he doesn't.
I think the conversation would have been a lot clearer if not for Rick Berman's involvement, but it's still pretty clear.