A Look at Tacking Into The Wind (Deep Space Nine)

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  • Опубліковано 26 гру 2024

КОМЕНТАРІ • 75

  • @marshallhuffer4713
    @marshallhuffer4713 12 днів тому +42

    A funny bit of trivia I found is that when Michael Dorn read the teleplay for this episode, he sought out Robert O'Reilly and apologized to him for killing his character.

  • @Deadxman616
    @Deadxman616 12 днів тому +36

    Gowron's reign began, was defended and ended by Worf's blade....

    • @noblehelium3794
      @noblehelium3794 11 днів тому +9

      They call him the Kingmaker. Or chancellor-maker, I guess.

  • @CaptainJZH
    @CaptainJZH 12 днів тому +20

    Kurn: So now Gowron no longer suits you? Perhaps you'd like to challenge him for leadership of the council!
    Worf: Of course not!
    Kurn: THEN DO NOT SPEAK OF THIS AGAIN!

  • @tylerachase
    @tylerachase 12 днів тому +29

    The exchange between Kira and Damar is one of my favorite scenes, so much is said just in the facial expressions and body language.

    • @jankostrhun8725
      @jankostrhun8725 12 днів тому +2

      I think this scene got me on Dumar train.

    • @scockery
      @scockery 12 днів тому

      Except we are talking about the deaths of unseen non-characters. Cardassian military men just never see their wives and kids.

    • @jankostrhun8725
      @jankostrhun8725 12 днів тому

      ​@@scockery Well that scene is not about them. It's about the event (the executions of innocent people who had no hand in them) and our character's reaction to those events.
      One may say that not seeing them is kinda the point. It's easy to see a bunch of random people as no great tragedy when you've never seen them, and not really care. People die all the time and sometimes their deaths may be sad, but necessary.
      But it hit's differently when those random people were actually someone you cared about. That's what opened Dumar's eyes here. That no matter how you try to twist and spin it, his people were no batter than those Dominion butchers he was just condemning.

    • @JosephDavies
      @JosephDavies 11 днів тому

      @@scockery Damar kinda sucked at being a proper Cardassian. For all we know, being close to his family was just another of his many faults.

  • @yadt
    @yadt 12 днів тому +28

    "Let's All Go To The Lobby" was a bit of a tonal shift in the "who gives those orders" clip...

    • @danij5055
      @danij5055 11 днів тому +2

      There is nothing unique or special about that. That's what Chuck uses every time to break up a longer clip so the bots don't claim it. 🤔

    • @yadt
      @yadt 11 днів тому +2

      @danij5055 yes, but the clip in was breaking up was uniquely dark....

    • @danij5055
      @danij5055 11 днів тому +1

      @@yadt I understand. It was a very interesting though unintentional juxtaposition. I was just mentioning how the clip break-up song and everything was the norm that he uses. But for the weightiness of the scene, he could perhaps have played a copyright-free tune that was more sobering. Or perhaps just the background sound of the Enterprise.

  • @marshallhuffer4713
    @marshallhuffer4713 12 днів тому +33

    It was actually Erzi speaking out about the Klingon Empire that got me to like her and was kind of a refreshing way to differentiate her from Curzon and Jadzia, who revere Klingon culture.

    • @scockery
      @scockery 12 днів тому +6

      Any psychologist would have a lot of issues with Klingon culture.

    • @JosephDavies
      @JosephDavies 11 днів тому +5

      I agree. It was a really great way to show she had the knowledge and respect for it that came from her previous hosts, but that this perspective was entirely her own.

  • @tbeller80
    @tbeller80 10 днів тому +3

    "You wouldn't kill one of your own would you?"
    "Dude, I was Obsidian Order. It was my job to kill other Cardassians!"

  • @sethmaki1333
    @sethmaki1333 12 днів тому +19

    I think we can all agree the last Chancellor the Klingons had before Martok that was actually worthy of respect was Gorkon.

    • @Cailus3542
      @Cailus3542 12 днів тому +2

      Hm? His daughter became chancellor, didn't she? I may be misremembering, as the title isn't hereditary. Regardless, yes, Gorkon was great.

    • @danij5055
      @danij5055 11 днів тому +1

      Her name was Azetbur. I believe she did become Chancellor.

    • @beav1962
      @beav1962 11 днів тому +2

      Gowron was pretty good in the beginning, then he started yo-yo ing with Worf's Honor, the Kitomer Accords, and then he seemed to become jealous of Martok. It was a strange downfall.

    • @JosephDavies
      @JosephDavies 11 днів тому +2

      @@beav1962 He seems like the kind of guy that was firmly the product of the bad political environment that put him in power. Perhaps he could have been a better person, but as broken as things were in the High Council no one in the running for Chancellor during the TNG era was going to be a great candidate. Better than Duras, easy, but great? That's much harder. The Romulan influences made everyone paranoid, and the Dominion didn't help that either.
      The Empire had to eventually go to Martok, someone from outside the system who had proven himself _actually_ honorable to get a better leader. We never get to see it, but I suspect this was very contentious for the ruling parties in the Council.

    • @Deadxman616
      @Deadxman616 10 днів тому

      Ture he did unite the klingon empire and the fed into killing him

  • @hariman7727
    @hariman7727 12 днів тому +12

    Everybody underestimates Garak.

    • @rachelnesser9223
      @rachelnesser9223 12 днів тому +5

      Yes, so true.

    • @Nyst2
      @Nyst2 8 днів тому +2

      You'd think people would underestimate him less after finding out he's a spy and assassin, but if anything it seems to make them underestimate him even more.

  • @IAmTheAce5
    @IAmTheAce5 12 днів тому +6

    13:26 This. Is. KLINGON!!!

  • @captianmorgan7627
    @captianmorgan7627 12 днів тому +12

    I see Neroon is doing well ...... no wait, he's dead again.

  • @danij5055
    @danij5055 11 днів тому +4

    Chuck: "I'd pick Martok over Gowron. At least he's not going to get us all killed tomorrow."
    Every Klingon: "Today is a good day to die."

  • @jonathancurran5366
    @jonathancurran5366 12 днів тому +12

    Anyone else think it was crazy that Sisko basically directed Worf to kill the Head of Government of an ally. Way darker than even Pale Moonlight.

    • @Deadxman616
      @Deadxman616 12 днів тому +1

      Picard: I don't care if he framed your father to absolve his family, or you prevented the fed Klingon relationship resting back to Kirk's day, nor murdered your side chick! you are a Starfleet officer!
      Sisko: Mr. Worf, Gowron is F*cking with the war, ergo he is F*cking with me.......Remind him why one dose not F*CK with the Sisko

    • @Cailus3542
      @Cailus3542 12 днів тому +9

      In an odd way, it isn't dark at all. This is classic Klingon politics, readily accepted by the High Council and the Empire. If it happened during peacetime, then I suspect that there would have been consequences, but war makes many sins forgivable.
      Besides, Gowron likely wouldn't have lasted much longer anyway. His wars against Cardassia and the Federation were very foolish in hindsight, for instance, and his reluctance to support the Federation fleet retaking DS9 nearly cost them the war. Gowron's decision to take personal command of the Klingon fleet smacks of desperation, a failing politician hoping that military glory will give him political support.
      Czar Nicholas II tried something similar in WW1, taking personal command of the Russian military despite not being even remotely qualified. You can guess how well that worked.

    • @ravenwilder4099
      @ravenwilder4099 12 днів тому +8

      Eh, challenging your government's leader to a fight to the death is just part of Klingon culture - it's the equivalent of encouraging Worf to go out and vote.

    • @MrGranten
      @MrGranten 12 днів тому +6

      Looking at the dialogue, Sisko didn't know what Worf was going to do, only that Worf had some plan that "[would] not be easy".

    • @CaptainJZH
      @CaptainJZH 12 днів тому +3

      @@MrGranten yeah, Sisko basically gave Worf a blank check to deal with the problem, and gosh it sure would be terrible if that resulted in Gowron's death, *wink*

  • @myriadmediamusings
    @myriadmediamusings 12 днів тому +12

    Worf may have been a good chancellor but I bet he wouldn’t have consented to being the frontman to Batleths & BicHnucHs.

  • @Sytheking
    @Sytheking 12 днів тому +5

    The title card reads "Tacking into the Wing."

  • @MrDj232
    @MrDj232 12 днів тому +5

    It certainly helps the Founders that the top races of the Dominion are ones they created. Kinda hard to be independent when you've literally met your maker and know they'll kill you if they're not happy.

  • @PNW_Marxist
    @PNW_Marxist 11 днів тому +1

    Douglas Adams' take on politics is sooooo on point.

  • @15oClock
    @15oClock 12 днів тому +6

    Fun fact: The Cardassian that recognized Damar and crew was played by J. Paul Boehmer, who has played a lot other (how should I put this?) authoritarian characters in Star Trek. Particularly, the Kapitan in The Killing Game, one of the members of the same regime in Enterprise's Zero Hour when they capture Archer, and an SS Agent in the following Storm Front. This guy’s casting is cursed.

    • @SchweitzerMan
      @SchweitzerMan 12 днів тому

      I bet he did nazi getting cast in those roles so many times...

  • @KnightRaymund
    @KnightRaymund 12 днів тому +3

    I'm with Ezri on this one.

  • @SciFi2285
    @SciFi2285 11 днів тому +3

    Gowron’s behavior towards Martok is unjustified. But his hatred for Worf is understandable. In his first appearance Gowron offered K'Ehleyr a seat on the high council even though she was both a woman and a Federation citizen. It was always about politics with him. And from his point of view he gave the House of Mogh enormous power in the empire expecting Worf to be a reliable political ally. Instead he got an unpredictable and naive do-gooder who places friendship, faith, and personal honor above pretty much anything else.

  • @imcarlabee
    @imcarlabee 12 днів тому

    Teching Into the Wind

  • @MrGranten
    @MrGranten 12 днів тому +2

    I can't agree on the politics part. True, politics is frequently divisive. But just in American politics, how many leaders can one name who would deliberately send generals on doomed operations, sacrifice the lives of untold soldiers, and risk the security of their civilization to head off a potential challenge? I can only think of a handful of presidents in the nation's entire history who might, and even fewer who ever did anything of the sort.
    Something's rotten in the state of the Klingon Empire, and I think it's the very officially military and imperial nature with really only a code of honor that we've seen is easy to abuse that helps push it to that way.

    • @Talisguy
      @Talisguy 12 днів тому +1

      I can't think of many who would do/did that. ...But I can think of plenty who engaged in what could generously be called "ruthless realpolitik." A case for impeachment could be made against a lot of Presidents from all parties - and it goes back far enough in US politics that I say "all" and not "both."

    • @EebstertheGreat
      @EebstertheGreat 9 днів тому

      @@Talisguy Realpolitik is designed to serve the state though. Gownron's decisions only served himself. I think Putin is a better example of a leader who engages in self-serving wars at the expense of his people.

  • @MorgenthauMusic
    @MorgenthauMusic 12 днів тому +9

    Small universe syndrome is one of my least favourite aspects of Star Trek. The High Council seems so small - no, the whole Klingon Empire seems so small! Almost everything has to do with Worf and other TNG- and/or DS9 main characters. I understand why this is a thing in a TV series (character recognition, everything we see is related to our protagonists etc.), but still ... it makes it more uninteresting.
    But Ezri was really right in her assessment of the Klingon Empire, it has become so ridiculously absurd that it makes no sense at all how it is "ruled", organised or acts as an entity. Nothing means anything there, but they act like they own the definition of meaning.

    • @Cailus3542
      @Cailus3542 12 днів тому +5

      Yeah, I have never liked the monocultural approach of Star Trek. TNG is where that starts. The Klingons are all alcoholic warriors, and...that's it. What about the farmers? The engineers? The sanitation workers? The industrialists? The average labourer? TV pundits? Sportsmen? Merchantmen? Even in the most militarised interstellar empires, warriors will still make up a small fraction of the population, yet we never see diversity. Discovery kept this going, annoyingly.
      The most frustrating example is the Romulans, though. They left Vulcan because they refused Surak's philosophy of emotional suppression, wanting to exult in their wild emotions. Instead, most Romulans are painfully dull and dreary, as Garak himself notes at one point. They repress their emotions better than most Vulcans. The Rihannsu book series by Diane Duane does a much better job with them, giving them diversity, among other things.
      Trust me, mate, you're not alone on this hill.

    • @MorgenthauMusic
      @MorgenthauMusic 12 днів тому

      @@Cailus3542 Star Trek is really strange for me. There are so many things I dislike, but also so many things I like and even LOVE ... in the end, I am a fan (whatever that means). I love to watch DS9, TNG and of course TOS (the other shows are not really my thing, although I have seen most of them), but I am constantly engaged in a very critical dialogue with those series that I love to watch!

    • @KnightRaymund
      @KnightRaymund 12 днів тому +1

      @@Cailus3542 I get the species of hats when it's a one off thing, but they do it too much with even their staple races that get seen enough to properly flesh out

    • @noblehelium3794
      @noblehelium3794 11 днів тому +1

      @@KnightRaymund The issue is that the original races were created by Roddenberry who simply wasn't a good enough writer to think deeply into things, as one of Chuck's somewhat recent videos pointed out (the one for an S1 TNG episode). The Cardassians and Bajorans are much more fleshed out in comparison because they were created later by much better writers. For the older races their caricatured flatness had become defining characteristics of those races, and it becomes very hard to deviate from that otherwise you get accused of betraying the essence of Trek (which is the most common criticism of DS9). Newer races introduced in Voyager reverted to prior form because most of the excellent writing talent accrued during DS9 was lost.

    • @EebstertheGreat
      @EebstertheGreat 9 днів тому

      @@noblehelium3794 Are you suggesting the Kazon weren't the most fleshed-out society in sci-fi?

  • @BakerVS
    @BakerVS 11 днів тому

    At the beginning or says tacking into the wing

  • @owlsayssouth
    @owlsayssouth 10 днів тому

    Fuck, that Russian hacking joke kills me.

  • @Evil0tto
    @Evil0tto 12 днів тому +1

    I think you're making a mistake regarding the Klingons. They're Klingons. They're not humans. Yes, politics exist even among them, but they also have a system that allows for honor duels to solve matters... or even change leadership. You can quite literally go up to the head of the Empire and say "You suck and I can do a better job," and if you can kill him then you can get it. Martok may not be a politician, but among Klingons respect is earned in battle... and he has that in spades.
    It may be that Martok gets challenged after the war if he shows weakness. But we see during the show that he's turning the war and giving the Klingon people what they want: victories.

  • @Renegade2786
    @Renegade2786 11 днів тому

    7:28 - 7:37 Three letters
    I
    D
    F

  • @DanteCorwyn
    @DanteCorwyn 12 днів тому +9

    To be fair, I'd take a lizard over all the past Tory PMs.

    • @Cailus3542
      @Cailus3542 12 днів тому +4

      I mean, yes, but it's not a high bar. After Boris Johnson and Liz Truss, that bar is a few kilometres deep. Rishi Sunak wasn't that bad, relatively speaking, but he was doomed from the start.
      Not that we're better off in France. Our last election amounted to "anyone but Le Pen", and as a nation, we teamed up to give her the finger. We succeeded. Then we got a legislature that is completely screwed up, making it flat out impossible to form a government. Now we're talking about forming a Sixth Republic. So, you know, yay.

    • @scockery
      @scockery 12 днів тому

      You are mixed, up, it's the Royal Family that are the reptilians.

    • @EebstertheGreat
      @EebstertheGreat 9 днів тому +1

      @@Cailus3542 You guys seem to form new governments at a rapid pace, that's for sure. Meanwhile, Belgium can't form a government at all. I feel like there is a happy medium somewhere between forming four governments in a single year and being unable to form a government for over a year.

  • @scockery
    @scockery 12 днів тому +1

    Stun settings, Jem Hadar don't have them. But what if...
    Damar stuns Rusot, and then scolds him later. Rusot then secretly defects back to the Dominion and betrays then group (instead of the non-character that the does)
    Likewise, Worf just puts Gowron in a sleeper hold and calls up Kahless Clone to take over, citing some ancient Klingon bullshat that allows for a handwaving transfer of powers that makes Martok Klingon War Marhsall something-something.
    All that on the next Wuss Trek Nine
    Then Gowron escapes, alters his features to look human and tries to seduce Kai Winn...only to discover she's being already being hit on by Dukat in "The Dating Game of Evil"

  • @indianastones6032
    @indianastones6032 12 днів тому +1

    When the fed destroy the dominions cloning factory, weyoun says hes the last weyoun.......wouldnt there be weyouns genes on file within the dominion cloning bases in the gamma quadrant? After all, the first time we see weyoun, he came from the gamma quadrant to destroy those portal towers with the jemhadar.....and that was before all out war!

    • @indianastones6032
      @indianastones6032 12 днів тому

      *destroyed

    • @jonathancurran5366
      @jonathancurran5366 12 днів тому +1

      It's not Canon but Weyoun does appear in ST novels set after his "death" in the series. And yes he's a clone made in the gamma quadrant.

    • @Maxdoll-v1q
      @Maxdoll-v1q 12 днів тому +2

      Damar destroyed the cloning factory.

    • @Cailus3542
      @Cailus3542 12 днів тому +1

      I suspect that they need more than genes. They need the body of the original Weyoun, the progenitor, which was transferred to the Alpha Quadrant in case the wormhole became unavailable. I like to think that the Vorta have a thriving civilization far from the wormhole, and they offer their greatest citizens (post-mortem) to the Founders to become the Vorta that we see in the show.

    • @EebstertheGreat
      @EebstertheGreat 9 днів тому

      He says he _could_ be the last Weyoun. It sounds like cloning facilities are pretty large and complex operations, so they likely wouldn't dedicate more than one to a particular genome at a time. The Dominion _could_ create another facility for Weyouns, but since the female changeling seems to increasingly despise him, that isn't terribly likely.

  • @jamesabernethy7896
    @jamesabernethy7896 11 днів тому +1

    These episodes are filler with some amazing performances from the Klingons and Cardassians. Several of them are key players for each race and add so much legitimacy to their roles. Even John Vickery, though he does not have anywhere near the screen time as the others as a Cardassian, he has an instant presence. Several Star Trek roles and Neroon on Babylon 5 make him so comfortable with the makeup.

  • @EebstertheGreat
    @EebstertheGreat 9 днів тому

    I think your argument about democracy is fairly irrelevant, because the Klingon Empire is not a democracy. In an an autarchy or oligarchy, a succession of bad leaders _is_ a strong criticism of the system, because the entire argument supporting it is that it ostensibly produces better leaders. The premise of their whole form of government is that certain noble houses naturally produce powerful leaders, and that only the most competent and bravest commanders can ever rise to the top, thus ensuring continual strong leadership. But if these strong leaders are actually weak idiots, then we should of course get rid of them.
    Democracy, on the other hand, is supported by the principle of choice. That's why most criticisms of flawed democracies focus not on the quality of their leaders but on the antidemocratic method of selecting them. People will talk about suppression of the vote, fraud and corruption in the voting process, campaign funding, graft, lobbying, etc. A true democracy that selects bad leaders might do badly on the world stage, but it's not "in deep denial about itself" if it really is what it purports to be.
    And historically, the most common reason for any regime to fail has been a succession of bad leaders. Ezri is insightful, but she doesn't have to be a genius to predict something has to give in the Klingon Empire when there is so much open contempt for the leadership at all levels. Similarly, you don't have to be a genius to predict that changes are coming to our government (indeed, already have come). That doesn't mean the Klingon Empire will completely restructure its government, or that we will, but there will be (and already have been) substantial changes in leadership and the political philosophy of people in power.