This is a very sharp, informative discussion with Das, except when we near the end, and he justifies remaining in a remarriage. You've just sunk your entire position once you sanctify that. While his arguments are generally strong throughout, he's basically relying on an argument by silence to make that case, which is very weak. If you can remain in adultery, you can remain in other sins as well, and one can divorce and remarry for any reason one wants, and eventually the churches will just accept it. This is an otherwise great ship crashed on the rocks. I believe your position, of remaining celibate and sleeping separately, is more consistent with Scripture. We also have at least one early Church father who teaches that the remarried should remain celibate.
@@newkingdommedia9434 I really can't remember offhand. There were also several who taught to withhold Communion, or other sacraments, from those living in adulterous remarriages.
The end of this teaching is wicked! They essentially say remarriage is adultery. But then at the end the guy who wrote the book goes on to say you just stay where you are, so you don’t ever have to repent of your adultery. So effectively it undoes everything he just taught. If you can stay in the marriage you are in, then it makes Jesus’ words make no sense - “whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and married another commit adultery”!
I’m curious, my mother got divorced from my father (abusive and serial adulturer), and proceeded to get remarried, before she was a Christian. By the time she knew better and repented to God for her actions, she had already had a child with her second husband. Thus I ask, what is she to do? Is she condemned to hell for actively living in sin? Should she divorce/separate from her second husband and leave her daughter to cleanse her soul? I do not mean this as sarcastic, but I genuinely am curious what you should suggest. Ever since you started this series on remarriage I have frankly been rather worried for her eternal fate, and have even lost sleep over it.
I assume she wasn't married in a church the first time, so her 2nd marriage would be her 1st marriage in a church. I encourage you all to join the sacramental life of Eastern Orthodox church, so your mother may have blessed marriage within the church.
In my opinion God is gracious here speaking pastoraly also concerning my Theological understanding I believe 1st that the life she lived before the grace of the Gospel saved her is the old life left behind and the new life lived is now in Christ for Christ. Repentance is the life lived now... Can she "fix" her past life. If she can fix broken relationships then good but there is no judgement over her because now she is in Christ. So now what is the best way forward in Christ? Well is her x husband a believer? Paul says to the Corinthians that if your husband/wife is an unbeliever then don't leave but if they want to leave you then let them. "You are not bound in this circumstance but are called to peace." Another clause. So in my opinion now that they are apart already she would be better remaining apart especially now that she is joined to another man in a Christian God honouring marriage raising a child in the Lord. (I believe it's God's Will for her to abandon her child!) The Corinthians text I believe is the clearest clause "you as a believer are better off and your family if they abandon you, if they don't then stay. If a husband is having affairs he has effectively abandoned his vows of faithfulness and if he is abusive he is not living a Christian life in both causes so would be subject to this Corinthians text. The Clause Jesus gives of unfaithfulness I take as "you could" leave not that "you should" leave. Hopefully forgiveness will cover the others sins in the relationship. Both of these clauses are clear clauses. I also however believe a third clause can be deduced from Scripture as a whole. If the wife or husband is being abused she or he can leave. (For the sake of the children too.) The abused partner is not married to a practicing Christian in this circumstance. I think the Spirit of the whole text allows separation in this Circumstance just as the Spirit of the whole text allows Slaves to go free. The oppressed are freed. Interesting that the text in Peter that addresses wives being abused could be sighted to contradict me but in the cultural context she "couldn't leave" women couldn't divorce men. Just as there are certain texts that would contradict abolishing slavery but again these texts in isolation are addressing a time and place where slavery was the way the whole world operated. Doesn't make it right or what God wants. God wants better his children.
@@richardmcgarvey6919 thank you for the in depth answer. Just for contextual purposes, the first husband was not and still remains an unbeliever, firmly rejecting the gospel.
According to Matthew 19:9 Jesus said if the spouse commit adultery, then she can divorce and Marry another, while the husband who commit adultery cannot marry again
She is bound to her original husband as long as he lives, she needs to repent and leave that second "husband". Don't listen to these people on here who just want to say sweet nothings but know nothing. There's a reason you are losing sleep over it, that is God speaking to you through your conscience. How many times are we to forgive our brother? 70×7 in a day(infinite amount) right? Would this not apply to our spouse also and even more so? We have all sinned against the Lord far greater than any person has sinned against us, so therefore if we expect forgiveness from God then we must forgive one another. Forgiveness of a spouse has to come with reconciliation otherwise it isn't true forgiveness. If one of your children sins against you do they stop being your child? Of course not! Same and even more so for a spouse. Let's say your child said they hated you and didn't want anything to do with you, then left home, if they returned some time later and wanted to repent would you not welcome them back with open arms? Or would you say 'I forgive you but I don't want you in my life anymore'? I would hope not! We need to love God so we can truly love one another and therefore view others in light of eternity, meaning; that a person's right standing with Christ is paramount over what they do for or against us. Marriage is a simple issue but Satan has done a great job at deceiving the masses so much so that even people like the men in this video can't get it 100% correct. Satan knows that 'marriage' is THE issue above all others that if he can get people to turn from Christ's teaching on that then he can get people to turn away from Christ all together. Your mom should leave that second "marriage", which is what the exception clause in Matthew 5 and also Matthew 19 is speaking of, meaning; an 'adulteresses marriage'. She should try to reconcile to her actual husband, but if he is unwilling then she should remain single and devoted to God in hopes that she may reconcile to her husband one day. Marriages outside the "church" are just as valid as those inside. The Holy Spirit is making you one flesh not a "church". "All those who call upon the name of he Lord shall be saved", that is the body of Christ. John the Baptist lost his head because he told Herod that it wasn't lawful to have his brother Phillip's wife and neither Phillip nor Herod were Christians. As far as the parenting goes, the child should live with the father and your mom can see the child with whatever is agreed upon. When children live with the mothers and a new man is introduced it creates all kinds of other issues when the opposite isn't as common. But also a father is a protector physically and spiritually, not a mother. Men and women are equal in value but not responsibility. I hope you seek the Lord for wisdom and discernment because He will give it to you if you are genuine. I will pray for you and your parents. God bless.
What?!? So unmarried people should live together? What kind of testimony is that to unbelievers who see them staying in the same house? Awful theology.
I was wondering if fornication is marriage, since in 1 Corinthians 6 15-18 Paul says that if you have sex with a prostitute you are one in flesh with her. If that is the case, then is everyone married to the first person they had sex with?
So, the truth hurts that much!!!! I'll bet you're one of those Christians who rushes to condemn homosexuals--whom Jesus said absolutely NOTHING about--and turn a blind eye to divorce and remarriage which Jesus clearly condemned as ADULTERY!!!!!!!! HYPOCRITE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
@goforthpatrick because it selectively turns down the volume on certain biblical passages as if it's good hermeneutics to play Christ against Moses. Jesus confirms that the divine intention for marriage is that it is to be monogamous and perpetual, but that because of the hardness of people's hearts Moses permitted divorce. Note: Moses permitted divorce. Moses did not act against God in this. This means that the Law of Moses, which is not contrary to God's will but actually reflective of it, permits divorce and remarriage in certain kinds of circumstances because of the hardness of fallen human hearts. This is not the original intention of God for marriage, but is reflective of how God responds to the situations created by sin. We still have sin, and although divorce is heinous and contrary to God's original intention, to claim it is absolutely forbidden such that one who is abused, abandoned, or adulterated is a sinner if they remarry is a false and crushing burden to place upon people. The video draws too hard of an inference and so produces unwarranted conclusions.
This is a very sharp, informative discussion with Das, except when we near the end, and he justifies remaining in a remarriage. You've just sunk your entire position once you sanctify that. While his arguments are generally strong throughout, he's basically relying on an argument by silence to make that case, which is very weak. If you can remain in adultery, you can remain in other sins as well, and one can divorce and remarry for any reason one wants, and eventually the churches will just accept it. This is an otherwise great ship crashed on the rocks. I believe your position, of remaining celibate and sleeping separately, is more consistent with Scripture. We also have at least one early Church father who teaches that the remarried should remain celibate.
@@holinessofthebride1935 which father was that?
@@newkingdommedia9434 I really can't remember offhand. There were also several who taught to withhold Communion, or other sacraments, from those living in adulterous remarriages.
The end of this teaching is wicked! They essentially say remarriage is adultery. But then at the end the guy who wrote the book goes on to say you just stay where you are, so you don’t ever have to repent of your adultery. So effectively it undoes everything he just taught. If you can stay in the marriage you are in, then it makes Jesus’ words make no sense - “whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and married another commit adultery”!
I’m curious, my mother got divorced from my father (abusive and serial adulturer), and proceeded to get remarried, before she was a Christian. By the time she knew better and repented to God for her actions, she had already had a child with her second husband. Thus I ask, what is she to do? Is she condemned to hell for actively living in sin? Should she divorce/separate from her second husband and leave her daughter to cleanse her soul? I do not mean this as sarcastic, but I genuinely am curious what you should suggest. Ever since you started this series on remarriage I have frankly been rather worried for her eternal fate, and have even lost sleep over it.
I assume she wasn't married in a church the first time, so her 2nd marriage would be her 1st marriage in a church. I encourage you all to join the sacramental life of Eastern Orthodox church, so your mother may have blessed marriage within the church.
In my opinion God is gracious here speaking pastoraly also concerning my Theological understanding I believe 1st that the life she lived before the grace of the Gospel saved her is the old life left behind and the new life lived is now in Christ for Christ. Repentance is the life lived now... Can she "fix" her past life. If she can fix broken relationships then good but there is no judgement over her because now she is in Christ. So now what is the best way forward in Christ? Well is her x husband a believer? Paul says to the Corinthians that if your husband/wife is an unbeliever then don't leave but if they want to leave you then let them. "You are not bound in this circumstance but are called to peace." Another clause. So in my opinion now that they are apart already she would be better remaining apart especially now that she is joined to another man in a Christian God honouring marriage raising a child in the Lord. (I believe it's God's Will for her to abandon her child!) The Corinthians text I believe is the clearest clause "you as a believer are better off and your family if they abandon you, if they don't then stay. If a husband is having affairs he has effectively abandoned his vows of faithfulness and if he is abusive he is not living a Christian life in both causes so would be subject to this Corinthians text. The Clause Jesus gives of unfaithfulness I take as "you could" leave not that "you should" leave. Hopefully forgiveness will cover the others sins in the relationship. Both of these clauses are clear clauses. I also however believe a third clause can be deduced from Scripture as a whole. If the wife or husband is being abused she or he can leave. (For the sake of the children too.) The abused partner is not married to a practicing Christian in this circumstance. I think the Spirit of the whole text allows separation in this Circumstance just as the Spirit of the whole text allows Slaves to go free. The oppressed are freed. Interesting that the text in Peter that addresses wives being abused could be sighted to contradict me but in the cultural context she "couldn't leave" women couldn't divorce men. Just as there are certain texts that would contradict abolishing slavery but again these texts in isolation are addressing a time and place where slavery was the way the whole world operated. Doesn't make it right or what God wants. God wants better his children.
@@richardmcgarvey6919 thank you for the in depth answer. Just for contextual purposes, the first husband was not and still remains an unbeliever, firmly rejecting the gospel.
According to Matthew 19:9 Jesus said if the spouse commit adultery, then she can divorce and Marry another, while the husband who commit adultery cannot marry again
She is bound to her original husband as long as he lives, she needs to repent and leave that second "husband". Don't listen to these people on here who just want to say sweet nothings but know nothing. There's a reason you are losing sleep over it, that is God speaking to you through your conscience. How many times are we to forgive our brother? 70×7 in a day(infinite amount) right? Would this not apply to our spouse also and even more so? We have all sinned against the Lord far greater than any person has sinned against us, so therefore if we expect forgiveness from God then we must forgive one another. Forgiveness of a spouse has to come with reconciliation otherwise it isn't true forgiveness. If one of your children sins against you do they stop being your child? Of course not! Same and even more so for a spouse. Let's say your child said they hated you and didn't want anything to do with you, then left home, if they returned some time later and wanted to repent would you not welcome them back with open arms? Or would you say 'I forgive you but I don't want you in my life anymore'? I would hope not! We need to love God so we can truly love one another and therefore view others in light of eternity, meaning; that a person's right standing with Christ is paramount over what they do for or against us. Marriage is a simple issue but Satan has done a great job at deceiving the masses so much so that even people like the men in this video can't get it 100% correct. Satan knows that 'marriage' is THE issue above all others that if he can get people to turn from Christ's teaching on that then he can get people to turn away from Christ all together. Your mom should leave that second "marriage", which is what the exception clause in Matthew 5 and also Matthew 19 is speaking of, meaning; an 'adulteresses marriage'. She should try to reconcile to her actual husband, but if he is unwilling then she should remain single and devoted to God in hopes that she may reconcile to her husband one day. Marriages outside the "church" are just as valid as those inside. The Holy Spirit is making you one flesh not a "church". "All those who call upon the name of he Lord shall be saved", that is the body of Christ. John the Baptist lost his head because he told Herod that it wasn't lawful to have his brother Phillip's wife and neither Phillip nor Herod were Christians. As far as the parenting goes, the child should live with the father and your mom can see the child with whatever is agreed upon. When children live with the mothers and a new man is introduced it creates all kinds of other issues when the opposite isn't as common. But also a father is a protector physically and spiritually, not a mother. Men and women are equal in value but not responsibility. I hope you seek the Lord for wisdom and discernment because He will give it to you if you are genuine. I will pray for you and your parents. God bless.
What?!? So unmarried people should live together? What kind of testimony is that to unbelievers who see them staying in the same house? Awful theology.
His book is kind of pricey at 45USD on Amazon.
the stakes, indeed, are high, and as such, it is strange on how casual this is handled....and taught...
who has looked at the issue between Joseph and Mary....would Joseph have been able to remarry if his claims of sex, while engaged to Joseph...
I was wondering if fornication is marriage, since in 1 Corinthians 6 15-18 Paul says that if you have sex with a prostitute you are one in flesh with her. If that is the case, then is everyone married to the first person they had sex with?
Wouldn't that mean essentially all but virgins may be damned then
No, there needs to be the making of vows (Ezek 16:8).
@@newkingdommedia9434 better answer than me answering the hypothetical
try except for fornication, as sex, out of the marital covenant has its own term....adultery....
one should look at what μοιχεία mean....
God divorced Israel. Jer 3.
3 verses later He says He takes her back.
blah, blah, blah, and never hitting the main point of the passage...
This teaching is false and incredibly harmful.
So, the truth hurts that much!!!! I'll bet you're one of those Christians who rushes to condemn homosexuals--whom Jesus said absolutely NOTHING about--and turn a blind eye to divorce and remarriage which Jesus clearly condemned as ADULTERY!!!!!!!! HYPOCRITE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Please, explain why. Seriously.
@goforthpatrick because it selectively turns down the volume on certain biblical passages as if it's good hermeneutics to play Christ against Moses. Jesus confirms that the divine intention for marriage is that it is to be monogamous and perpetual, but that because of the hardness of people's hearts Moses permitted divorce. Note: Moses permitted divorce. Moses did not act against God in this. This means that the Law of Moses, which is not contrary to God's will but actually reflective of it, permits divorce and remarriage in certain kinds of circumstances because of the hardness of fallen human hearts. This is not the original intention of God for marriage, but is reflective of how God responds to the situations created by sin. We still have sin, and although divorce is heinous and contrary to God's original intention, to claim it is absolutely forbidden such that one who is abused, abandoned, or adulterated is a sinner if they remarry is a false and crushing burden to place upon people. The video draws too hard of an inference and so produces unwarranted conclusions.