Also, what about isolating/disconnecting the load and then testing RCD with 30mA /300 mA as there already leakage in the cct.. Also in AS/ NZ standards, there would be no way the cables would be laying on the roof like that without segregation..it not a UV thing it's a wear through the insulation in the wind thing! just sayn 😮
Jordon, equipotential bonding of PV modules over 120V dc has been a requirement in Australia & New Zealand since 2012 edition of our PV standard. There are several reasons but it was "triggered" by a child receiving an electric shock touching a metal ladder leaning agains the roof guttering. The cause was the normal capacitive coupling of the module's cells to the frame and the a.c. leakage through non-separated (transformerless) inverters. Up to approximately half grid voltage (a.c.) can be present on the frames of PV modules under normal operating conditions. The bonding provides a path for this small (typically < 1mA) leakage current to earth. The other reason for bonding is that a failure of the double insulation of the PV array can only be detected by the inverter if there is an earth reference for the inverter to measure against, typically done on startup. This can cause intermittent problems during wet or humid weather due to low resistance to frame of the modules (which is a breakdown of their double insulation).
Most of the increasingly popular all-in-one 'high frequency' PV/battery charger/inverter units aren't isolated PV either. It's stated in the manual either directly or implied, but so many people using them don't read it or understand the implications. It's a bit scary thinking about how many of these things are out there not installed properly, particularly in countries where electrical work is often undertaken by untrained people.
Same in Belgium, its just a equipotential bonding. Started placing solar in 2008 and came into effect around the same year. (2012) lots of houses have velux windows from which you could potentially tough the Solar installation.
The sheet under neath is a fibre cement roof sheet (my sister lives in Bergerac and they have exactly the same system) they then lay the clay tile over the crown of the profile Top tip - don't ever attempt walking on a fibre cement roof in UK, the purlin centres are larger and more often than not the roof sheet will fail (with no warning either), its also illegal to access a fibre cement roof in UK without some form of safety, usually netting under the roof or a harness system on the roof that you can connect onto at the eaves with walkboards to access the working area
Bonding PV panels to the AC-linked Earth is not a good idea with RCDs in the circuit. Bonding PV panels to a dedicated DC-only Earth spike is a good solution and helps reduce EMF issues affecting all sorts of RF signals from Amateur Radio and Wi-Fi (I had both of these issues).
I'd guess on a TN-C-S system, placing one probe on the neutral before the RCD and one on the live after the RCD would have the same effect as neutral and earth are bonded at the DNO transformer? Still a pretty silly mistake given he knew it was TT.
Interesting that you mentioned amateur radio.... I'm a radio ham, and moved from France to Northumberland into a fairly recently built estate. There are five houses in the immediate vicinity, and 3.5 MHz 80 metres is completely unusable due to a high level of RF noise.....
Loved the Video! Francois was an awesome guy. The reason we now have to earth the rails is to carry out insulation resistance testing periodically. It is becoming a big problem as pv panels get older the silicons are breaking down, creating positive or negative to earth or gradually shorting the panel. If you have to climb up on the roof to test this you will need to cover the panels first.
Cleaning panels is what got me to put them on the ground so they are accessible. Dust is easy, but pollen glues itself. I spent a month designing a tilt tracking system for the roof that would fit in the tight space down near the eaves for the lower panels I never got to build more than the test prototype.
@@robertsmith2956 How about a gardena micro-drip system equipped with sprayers and a detergent addon to lift the pollen. Essentially the ability to wash the panels down without having to get out a garden hose (and can be done on an irrigation timer)
@@miscbits6399 I thought about it, even a wash roller on tracks to run down the panels. But drip systems clog when dealing with pollen. It was much easier to put the panels on the ground, and build a shed behind them to hold the electronics.
Really informative, even for the relative layman that I am. PS: Regarding taxes: I think income tax rates are actually lower than in the UK. It's the social contributions paid by employers and employees that are much higher (and maybe company tax, I don't know). But on the up side, we don't have people dying in ambulance queues because there aren't any hospital beds and you can get from Marseille to Paris in just over 3 hours by train. So, I'm happy to pay my social contributions and taxes here, even though they do take a big chunk out of my salary. Keep the videos coming!
Both "loft" and "attic" are used in British English to describe a large space under a roof that's above the main occupied areas of a building. However, the terms have different meanings in some definitions: Attic Usually refers to an entire floor of a building, or a room immediately under the roof that's accessed by a staircase. Attics can be used for storage, HVAC equipment, or insulation, or they can be converted into private rooms. Loft Usually refers to one or more rooms or spaces under the roof that are accessed by a hatch and loft ladder. Lofts can be used for a specific purpose, like an organ loft in a church, or they can be converted into a living space. Lofts often have an open-plan design that combines contemporary design with historical architecture
I have just done a UK Level 3 electricians course and am also have a BE(Electrical). I now live in the French Alpes - I am looking for work as an apprentice or mate in any sort of electrical area (install, repairs, solar, ..). If anyone has tips finding work in France with UK qualifications I would love to know :).
You can see with ENIC-NARIC office. It's a government office who can recognize and give you an equivalent of your diplomas in France. It has a ~70-80€ fees and can take several months to receive the French diploma but you'll be good to find a job here without starting from the beginning. Hope that will help you.
@@UKsystems yes I have been looking at the schneider set - which I think is more iec standard . Have you seen an official set of French regs online by chance ?
In the netherlands we also have this issue sometimes this is because the newer inverters dont have a transformer in themand thats why there is no galvanic isolation between the pv panels and de AC-grid, so mostly some leakege current will flow over the dc connection trough earth and this wil trip the RCD, P.S. Jordan i am a dutch electrician, so if you ever in the netherlands i would love to show how the dutch are doing electrical.
I think a good example of such inverters are the IQ micro-inverters from Enphase? And that's one of the reasons why here, we also need the Q-relays from Enphase between the micro-inverters and the breakers, so there is a real mechanical disconnection when power is cut?
Transformless inverters always will have ac leak to pv and all hybrid inverters is transfromless, so if you have hybrid inverter always turn in off before connecting pv, because even when pv is off you can get shocked by touching pv input contacts on inverter because there is AC leak from inverter and that’s normal on hybrid inverters
You mean of course you want to earth the frames of the solar panels and not the solar panels themselves. Right? And yes of course they must be grounded.
@@HEelektra When lightning strikes directly it does not matter. Grounding the frames helps dissipating the energy into the earth. If it enters the house you are in a world of hurt. That may or may not happen. I, and most of my neighbors do not even have lightning rods on our buildings. That is not necessary here in middle Europe.
@@HEelektra if it directly strikes your property , at least the earthing might reduce the amount of the rest of your electrical system that explodes out of the walls.
@@wolfgangpreier9160 I had a strike on tree out front. Blew all the bark off killing it. It also traveled up the phone line that ran through it's branches, into the house where it blew the back off the DSL modem. Went up the network line to the firewall box, and melted the jack on it stopping it from getting to rest of network. But it also went up L2 knocking out some other equipment, and popping the fuse on that leg. Had a buick coil do the same thing when it cracked open and fired into the ECU instead of the spark plug wires. Surge protector doesn't stop the power spike when it come from the house. At least not a useful stop. Maybe that i what held it to that one line segment. I was shocked the network cable handled the load that melted the connectors on both ends.
Love it! At my House in Spain the Earth cable is a sort of combo of 20 earth cables. And we installed the Solars on Day one, and on Day 2 we installed airco's and suddenly my Outlet for my EV wasn't working anymore.... We found out that the earth was disconnected..... Oeps
Did my solar install myself, I'm living at Reunion Island, loads of sun, but lot of wind, so had to secure... . Everything's ok, grounded, never a probleù, but man, the costs are insane... Went from 5-6 euros a day of elecrticity to 1.4-1.5 euros, huge change. I won't go full autonomy at the moment, but it has been a huge help, I can charge my EV during 2.5-3 hours a day usually, huge help! And my everything is grounded, even solar pannels. No problem at the moment, even when there is a power outage.
@@artisanelectrics Thanks. But people should be sure of what they're doing, I'm no pro', just had a lot of documentation, did a lot of research and asked questions to professionnals (and a lot of them weren't that professionnal). I run on solar from 8.00 to usually 20.00 on a good sunny day, I don't have a lot of batteries (only 48V at the moment, looking to buy 4 mores 12V), since it is really expansive. Not re-selling to EDF (french provide), since it is a huge pain in the *ahem*, that is why I will probably expand storage. And thanks for you videos, always interesting to watch themn keep it up !
Interesting video but no need to insult 'radio nerds'. The interference (surprised you didn't know) is usually caused by the switching regulator converting the DC to AC or just changing the DC voltage to provide the MPPT function. There is often limited filtering back to the source DC, the panels of course, and so the panels or just the wiring radiates. This can fail EMC requirements and OFCOM can and do visit to investigate some cases. There are some fixes involving choking the RFI at the inverter.
The panel earth bond thing (~21:00) was mentioned on the recent e5 video about becoming 'live' in certain situations, which I suspected would be RFI filters that need an earth connection, that if left open gains half supply volts through the Y capacitors in the RFI cct.
Just talked to my installer who added some extra details. Apparently, originally, rails were earthed (CPC) but then became a part of the lightening hazard system so would need surge protection, plus the potential DC leakage would/could affect the circuit breakers if not rated for additional DC. Hence the earthing requirement got removed. And now it's possible other systems assume the presence of an earth. So it's building to a bag of worms..
When the sun is out and my Victron MPPT controller is charging my batteries, my Amateur Radio (Ham) equipment is useless! I think this is a common problem with MPPT controllers as they emitting lots of radio frequency noise when active!
In the US on metal surfaces have to be bonded so solar panels do you have to be grounded it's interesting I didn't know that the UK doesn't CPC solar panels. Basically it comes down to having all metal surfaces at equal potential bonding. And recently I saw a couple videos that are indicating cheaper inverters are causing the solar panels to float with touch voltages that are bad. Noise would be another thing there's enough noise in the world it would be nice if it stayed out of the radio frequency causing Wi-Fi issues and ham radio issues although that's the first I've heard of that with Solar.
19:52 regarding "i'm telling you what to do now": Nothing wrong about that, actually it is good practice in software engineering called pair programming. One person does the coding and another one tells you what to do in general (but not dictating the code letter by letter). I assume this would work well in other crafts like electical as well.
Jordan I always bring an earth wire from the rails and pannels. If they are close to a velux window then you must anyway. But my seaward tester requires connection to rail for testing so rather than get a ladder off the van it's done.
should do the "Shocking truth about solar in Northern Ireland". shockingly, we occasionally see the sun! currently producing 7.2 kW from my 7.8kWp system!
Would love to see more content like this. I'm in the UK but used to live in Italy where they use conduit for all homes, it is so much each to add new wires, why do you think we don't do this in the UK?
The flexible conduit is called "gaine" and provides the double insulation requirement to the single core conductors inside, it is used pretty much everywhere as it allows (in theory) a damaged wire to be replaced. He is correct to say that for surface mounted wiring gaine must be used or a double insulated cable but the ones he pointed out which were not in gaine were red and black IIRC single insulated 16 or 25mm2 supply cables so should have been in gaine or trunking, also the red and black unless they were both live conductors should have been blue for the neutral. A real cowboy job and typical of a solar or swimming pool installation in my country. I was shouting out loud when he tried to test the RCD between phase and neutral and the other guy did not even know it was wrong.
Roofs in Scotland are solid sheeted flat and waterproof before counter battens and tiling battens. That has been building regulations for at least 40 years. Usually OSB or Ply first. No fixing point issues.
Another thought about earth bonding - although the PV panels are on the roof out of the householder's reach - other trades may need to be on the roof (e.g. attending the aircon or heatpump) and they may find themselves in contact with both their equipment and the PV metalwork..
Lots of cowboy installers in Francetaking advantage of the French government’s “solar panels for €1 scheme”. If your solar installation is set up to deliver and sell power to the grid, EdF will inspect before they let you connect.
Solax non hybrid inverters have a built in ground test; upon powering up they inject to small current into the ground to see if it is there. In earlier software revisions this ground current tripped the RCD. So every morning at sunrise the RCD tripped. I ended up living without it. There can be considerable capacitive ground current when using thin film type PV panels and single phase inverters. SMA has an app note how to trick and compensate for this. Three phase inverters have the avg panel voltage at ground level, and do not suffer from capacitive leakage
Over Voltage Protection NEEDS earth bonding of the Solar panels. Also: In counties with a lot of snow like here in Austria homeowners may also go onto the roof to clear the snow. In that case live voltage on a panel could be deadly.
You must test RCD on top contacts not on input (bottom contacts) and im car mechanic 🤔 and load input should be from the bottom if im right and top contacts output to loads
Don't write off the idea of running a business in France. I think corp tax in the UK and France is now the same (25%), and although the social contributions are high the pension you get at the end is much more than the state pension in the UK. Plus the health cover is (currently) better in France, saying that, the health system is creaking under the pressure, but not as bad as in the UK.
Interesting...I have a 2 year old installation with a Fronius Symo transformerless inverter on a 30 mA RCD and it never tripped. The leakage on the AC side is about 5 mA (I used a KPS DCM300LEAK to measure). I regularly test the RCD with a Metrel MI 3125.
RCD or "Interrupteur différentiel 2P 230V~ 40A type AC 300mA - 2 modules" Legrand brand - Found it at 60€. They could find a solution to run cleanly the cables from the roof to the DC box.......maybe they could but was pricier.
Earth bonding of solar panels. Interesting and I have never got a straight answer on my installation in the UK. I have a metal roof (Kingspan ks1000). Inner and outer skin metal with PV mounting across trapezoidal. Metal fixings traversing through roof so path to inside of building. Should metal roof earth bonded on inner or outer skin to protect PV fault or lightening?
RF "earth bonding" can be done with suitable capacitors. It gets complicated because long earth cables are inductors but I can see why the French would want the panels bonded FWIW British installations are extremely lax on RFI issues, due to decades of non-enforcement by OFCOM
You also might want to check your mc 4 connectors for installationfaults. When moisture from the damp environment in the morning reaches your live circuits. your rcd will trip
There are a lot of rich people in the south of France, all the rich Europeans are concentrated there, so if you want to target the big villas and high-quality services for your business, I think it's the right place. Taxes are a secondary issue when you can double the amount of benefits.
@@Felix-st2ue As François says, everything is lumped together, but it all adds up to a lot of money all at once, and you realize how many taxes and services you're paying, which can be very scary, unlike in the U.S for example, where everything is separate, but in the end the total amounts aren't very far apart. The big difference is in salary levels, so you have to charge more to have the same standard of living.
The video mentioned that unearthed panels give off radio signals.Would the panels also interfer with getting television signals if the antenna is located in the attic? Had perfect signal before the panels were installed, now its patchy enough.
In short, yes. Switched mode power supply circuits that you'll find in inverters are infamous for generating electrical noise unless they've been really well designed. Signals can radiate from the cables as well. Mounting the aerial outside will likely be the fix.
Still in full swing in the UK but I run my business from abroad and come back to the UK once a month for a week to work with the team. We have grown a lot and I am able to run things remotely most of the time thanks to the amazing team we have. Video update coming soon.
25:09 About the same in Belgium . above 45.000 euro you pay 50% tax in Belgium ( lower income = lower taxes ) .. one of the highest in Europe i think .. Especially as an independant sole trader no BV ( LTD in uk ) . If you have a BV ( ltd ) you can indeed do dividents and pay less taxes ( but more complicated ) So if the taxes are so low in UK why is Artisan then 3x times so expensive as an electrican in Belgium lol ...🤣😂
Really interesting to see and hear about the differences between French and UK electical requirements... and clearly British Electricians are much better!!! ;-)
Panels dont need earth. All metal parts of the pv installation need earth bonding. Didnt used to be that way but after an inspection on a older installation we had to fix that for 2000 panels on a flat roof.. not the best job in the world.
Get a quote from us: app.openquote.net/company/artisanelectrics
17:30 a 2-wire RCD tester like that isn't going to trip anything connected just between live & neutral
One contact before the RCD to N and the other contact after the RCD to L.
Then it works.
yah I saw the same thing and ask why is he trying like that? :D
Also, what about isolating/disconnecting the load and then testing RCD with 30mA /300 mA as there already leakage in the cct.. Also in AS/ NZ standards, there would be no way the cables would be laying on the roof like that without segregation..it not a UV thing it's a wear through the insulation in the wind thing! just sayn 😮
if it is between L and N it is actually a normal load.
Jordon, equipotential bonding of PV modules over 120V dc has been a requirement in Australia & New Zealand since 2012 edition of our PV standard. There are several reasons but it was "triggered" by a child receiving an electric shock touching a metal ladder leaning agains the roof guttering. The cause was the normal capacitive coupling of the module's cells to the frame and the a.c. leakage through non-separated (transformerless) inverters. Up to approximately half grid voltage (a.c.) can be present on the frames of PV modules under normal operating conditions. The bonding provides a path for this small (typically < 1mA) leakage current to earth. The other reason for bonding is that a failure of the double insulation of the PV array can only be detected by the inverter if there is an earth reference for the inverter to measure against, typically done on startup. This can cause intermittent problems during wet or humid weather due to low resistance to frame of the modules (which is a breakdown of their double insulation).
Most of the increasingly popular all-in-one 'high frequency' PV/battery charger/inverter units aren't isolated PV either. It's stated in the manual either directly or implied, but so many people using them don't read it or understand the implications. It's a bit scary thinking about how many of these things are out there not installed properly, particularly in countries where electrical work is often undertaken by untrained people.
Thanks! Interesting to see if it comes to the UK eventually...
Exactly this. The majority of solar panels that i installed needs to be functional earthed, very rarely earthed for lightning.
Same in Belgium, its just a equipotential bonding. Started placing solar in 2008 and came into effect around the same year. (2012) lots of houses have velux windows from which you could potentially tough the Solar installation.
@@sanders3219that’s a very interesting point!
Brilliant vlog. It would be great to see more of this content.💯%
Thanks! Glad you enjoyed it 👍
The sheet under neath is a fibre cement roof sheet (my sister lives in Bergerac and they have exactly the same system) they then lay the clay tile over the crown of the profile
Top tip - don't ever attempt walking on a fibre cement roof in UK, the purlin centres are larger and more often than not the roof sheet will fail (with no warning either), its also illegal to access a fibre cement roof in UK without some form of safety, usually netting under the roof or a harness system on the roof that you can connect onto at the eaves with walkboards to access the working area
So your roof is made of the same stuff you line your bathroom walls with? Well at least it will handle water. LOL
Bonding PV panels to the AC-linked Earth is not a good idea with RCDs in the circuit.
Bonding PV panels to a dedicated DC-only Earth spike is a good solution and helps reduce EMF issues affecting all sorts of RF signals from Amateur Radio and Wi-Fi (I had both of these issues).
Connected RCD tester like a load between L and N, and is surprised that it's not tripping. Are you really qualified electrician? 🤣
My thoughts exactly!!!!
Proof of a real P.V Cowboy...
I'd guess on a TN-C-S system, placing one probe on the neutral before the RCD and one on the live after the RCD would have the same effect as neutral and earth are bonded at the DNO transformer? Still a pretty silly mistake given he knew it was TT.
Interesting that you mentioned amateur radio.... I'm a radio ham, and moved from France to Northumberland into a fairly recently built estate. There are five houses in the immediate vicinity, and 3.5 MHz 80 metres is completely unusable due to a high level of RF noise.....
Interesting thanks for sharing!
Loved the Video! Francois was an awesome guy. The reason we now have to earth the rails is to carry out insulation resistance testing periodically. It is becoming a big problem as pv panels get older the silicons are breaking down, creating positive or negative to earth or gradually shorting the panel. If you have to climb up on the roof to test this you will need to cover the panels first.
Great thanks for sharing that info!
Cleaning panels is what got me to put them on the ground so they are accessible. Dust is easy, but pollen glues itself. I spent a month designing a tilt tracking system for the roof that would fit in the tight space down near the eaves for the lower panels I never got to build more than the test prototype.
@@robertsmith2956 How about a gardena micro-drip system equipped with sprayers and a detergent addon to lift the pollen. Essentially the ability to wash the panels down without having to get out a garden hose (and can be done on an irrigation timer)
@@miscbits6399 I thought about it, even a wash roller on tracks to run down the panels. But drip systems clog when dealing with pollen. It was much easier to put the panels on the ground, and build a shed behind them to hold the electronics.
Really informative, even for the relative layman that I am.
PS: Regarding taxes: I think income tax rates are actually lower than in the UK. It's the social contributions paid by employers and employees that are much higher (and maybe company tax, I don't know). But on the up side, we don't have people dying in ambulance queues because there aren't any hospital beds and you can get from Marseille to Paris in just over 3 hours by train. So, I'm happy to pay my social contributions and taxes here, even though they do take a big chunk out of my salary.
Keep the videos coming!
Both "loft" and "attic" are used in British English to describe a large space under a roof that's above the main occupied areas of a building. However, the terms have different meanings in some definitions:
Attic
Usually refers to an entire floor of a building, or a room immediately under the roof that's accessed by a staircase. Attics can be used for storage, HVAC equipment, or insulation, or they can be converted into private rooms.
Loft
Usually refers to one or more rooms or spaces under the roof that are accessed by a hatch and loft ladder. Lofts can be used for a specific purpose, like an organ loft in a church, or they can be converted into a living space. Lofts often have an open-plan design that combines contemporary design with historical architecture
Attic: permanently accessible, liveable space. Loft, accessed by temporary means (ie ladder) not liveable.
I have just done a UK Level 3 electricians course and am also have a BE(Electrical). I now live in the French Alpes - I am looking for work as an apprentice or mate in any sort of electrical area (install, repairs, solar, ..). If anyone has tips finding work in France with UK qualifications I would love to know :).
You can see with ENIC-NARIC office. It's a government office who can recognize and give you an equivalent of your diplomas in France. It has a ~70-80€ fees and can take several months to receive the French diploma but you'll be good to find a job here without starting from the beginning.
Hope that will help you.
@@sennkei6091 that sounds amazing! Thanks heaps for the info..
@@RobertMunro I would recommend also learning the French system of electrical things as a lot of the regulations do not directly transfer
@@UKsystems yes I have been looking at the schneider set - which I think is more iec standard . Have you seen an official set of French regs online by chance ?
More Francois please. Great video and facinating to see how other countries do it
In the netherlands we also have this issue sometimes this is because the newer inverters dont have a transformer in themand thats why there is no galvanic isolation between the pv panels and de AC-grid, so mostly some leakege current will flow over the dc connection trough earth and this wil trip the RCD,
P.S.
Jordan i am a dutch electrician, so if you ever in the netherlands i would love to show how the dutch are doing electrical.
If I ever do go to the Netherlands then I will hold you to that deal!
I think a good example of such inverters are the IQ micro-inverters from Enphase?
And that's one of the reasons why here, we also need the Q-relays from Enphase between the micro-inverters and the breakers, so there is a real mechanical disconnection when power is cut?
Transformless inverters always will have ac leak to pv and all hybrid inverters is transfromless, so if you have hybrid inverter always turn in off before connecting pv, because even when pv is off you can get shocked by touching pv input contacts on inverter because there is AC leak from inverter and that’s normal on hybrid inverters
Nice one Jordan, more vids with just you and Russell Crowe. And the sunshine will take us through winter ,!!
Thanks for watching!
Excellent stuff.
I'm in France and doing a 32kWh battery system with LiFePO4. I don't understand why that would need drainage.
Great video Jordan. Really enjoyed the interaction with a French Electrician.
22:50 earthing solar panels will probably also help with lightning protection - won't stop a direct strike but could be useful for nearby strikes
You mean when lightning strikes the system directly, that surge will fry your whole electrical system. I'd rather avoid that...
You mean of course you want to earth the frames of the solar panels and not the solar panels themselves. Right? And yes of course they must be grounded.
@@HEelektra When lightning strikes directly it does not matter. Grounding the frames helps dissipating the energy into the earth. If it enters the house you are in a world of hurt. That may or may not happen. I, and most of my neighbors do not even have lightning rods on our buildings. That is not necessary here in middle Europe.
@@HEelektra if it directly strikes your property , at least the earthing might reduce the amount of the rest of your electrical system that explodes out of the walls.
@@wolfgangpreier9160 I had a strike on tree out front. Blew all the bark off killing it. It also traveled up the phone line that ran through it's branches, into the house where it blew the back off the DSL modem. Went up the network line to the firewall box, and melted the jack on it stopping it from getting to rest of network. But it also went up L2 knocking out some other equipment, and popping the fuse on that leg. Had a buick coil do the same thing when it cracked open and fired into the ECU instead of the spark plug wires.
Surge protector doesn't stop the power spike when it come from the house. At least not a useful stop. Maybe that i what held it to that one line segment.
I was shocked the network cable handled the load that melted the connectors on both ends.
Love it! At my House in Spain the Earth cable is a sort of combo of 20 earth cables. And we installed the Solars on Day one, and on Day 2 we installed airco's and suddenly my Outlet for my EV wasn't working anymore.... We found out that the earth was disconnected..... Oeps
Solar panels build up static charge, that's why we ground them in the Netherlands.
In NZ And Aussie they have to be bonded PV earths to the main earths.
You could actually get flexible conduit and paint it a teracorra colour to hide the cables
Did my solar install myself, I'm living at Reunion Island, loads of sun, but lot of wind, so had to secure... .
Everything's ok, grounded, never a probleù, but man, the costs are insane...
Went from 5-6 euros a day of elecrticity to 1.4-1.5 euros, huge change.
I won't go full autonomy at the moment, but it has been a huge help, I can charge my EV during 2.5-3 hours a day usually, huge help!
And my everything is grounded, even solar pannels. No problem at the moment, even when there is a power outage.
Awesome! 🤩
@@artisanelectrics Thanks.
But people should be sure of what they're doing, I'm no pro', just had a lot of documentation, did a lot of research and asked questions to professionnals (and a lot of them weren't that professionnal).
I run on solar from 8.00 to usually 20.00 on a good sunny day, I don't have a lot of batteries (only 48V at the moment, looking to buy 4 mores 12V), since it is really expansive.
Not re-selling to EDF (french provide), since it is a huge pain in the *ahem*, that is why I will probably expand storage.
And thanks for you videos, always interesting to watch themn keep it up !
30:00 I think François meant corrugated rooves. We do have them but don't put decorative tiles on top. Just leave them looking nasty
fabulous film jordan and mate....we live in France and elctricians are fabulous.
Really enjoyed this video, Definitely make some more .
Thanks 🙏 more to come!
Solar panels have the same make up as a capacitor. An array can build up a voltage. Hence one of the reasons they get earthed.
Interesting video but no need to insult 'radio nerds'. The interference (surprised you didn't know) is usually caused by the switching regulator converting the DC to AC or just changing the DC voltage to provide the MPPT function. There is often limited filtering back to the source DC, the panels of course, and so the panels or just the wiring radiates. This can fail EMC requirements and OFCOM can and do visit to investigate some cases. There are some fixes involving choking the RFI at the inverter.
29 degrees is hot? That’s cute, that’s a nice day in autum or spring . Come work in an Australian summer Jordan 😂
I live in France so thanks for this review of French installations!
The best thing from this video is the Leffe Blond, my favorite belgium beer :)
Great taste!
Good choice although I prefer brun
The panel earth bond thing (~21:00) was mentioned on the recent e5 video about becoming 'live' in certain situations, which I suspected would be RFI filters that need an earth connection, that if left open gains half supply volts through the Y capacitors in the RFI cct.
Just talked to my installer who added some extra details.
Apparently, originally, rails were earthed (CPC) but then became a part of the lightening hazard system so would need surge protection, plus the potential DC leakage would/could affect the circuit breakers if not rated for additional DC. Hence the earthing requirement got removed. And now it's possible other systems assume the presence of an earth. So it's building to a bag of worms..
When the sun is out and my Victron MPPT controller is charging my batteries, my Amateur Radio (Ham) equipment is useless! I think this is a common problem with MPPT controllers as they emitting lots of radio frequency noise when active!
In the US on metal surfaces have to be bonded so solar panels do you have to be grounded it's interesting I didn't know that the UK doesn't CPC solar panels. Basically it comes down to having all metal surfaces at equal potential bonding. And recently I saw a couple videos that are indicating cheaper inverters are causing the solar panels to float with touch voltages that are bad. Noise would be another thing there's enough noise in the world it would be nice if it stayed out of the radio frequency causing Wi-Fi issues and ham radio issues although that's the first I've heard of that with Solar.
19:52 regarding "i'm telling you what to do now": Nothing wrong about that, actually it is good practice in software engineering called pair programming. One person does the coding and another one tells you what to do in general (but not dictating the code letter by letter). I assume this would work well in other crafts like electical as well.
Jordan I always bring an earth wire from the rails and pannels. If they are close to a velux window then you must anyway. But my seaward tester requires connection to rail for testing so rather than get a ladder off the van it's done.
Gerard Butler is Francois look a like
😂
should do the "Shocking truth about solar in Northern Ireland".
shockingly, we occasionally see the sun! currently producing 7.2 kW from my 7.8kWp system!
literally 5 minutes later, down to 416W...
Would love to see more content like this. I'm in the UK but used to live in Italy where they use conduit for all homes, it is so much each to add new wires, why do you think we don't do this in the UK?
The flexible conduit is called "gaine" and provides the double insulation requirement to the single core conductors inside, it is used pretty much everywhere as it allows (in theory) a damaged wire to be replaced.
He is correct to say that for surface mounted wiring gaine must be used or a double insulated cable but the ones he pointed out which were not in gaine were red and black IIRC single insulated 16 or 25mm2 supply cables so should have been in gaine or trunking, also the red and black unless they were both live conductors should have been blue for the neutral.
A real cowboy job and typical of a solar or swimming pool installation in my country.
I was shouting out loud when he tried to test the RCD between phase and neutral and the other guy did not even know it was wrong.
Roofs in Scotland are solid sheeted flat and waterproof before counter battens and tiling battens. That has been building regulations for at least 40 years. Usually OSB or Ply first. No fixing point issues.
Excellent video, really liked your interactions with François, certainly worth making more.
Many thanks!
Another thought about earth bonding - although the PV panels are on the roof out of the householder's reach - other trades may need to be on the roof (e.g. attending the aircon or heatpump) and they may find themselves in contact with both their equipment and the PV metalwork..
Lots of cowboy installers in Francetaking advantage of the French government’s “solar panels for €1 scheme”. If your solar installation is set up to deliver and sell power to the grid, EdF will inspect before they let you connect.
Interesting video 👌 Russel Crowe for sure 😂 Knowledgeable guy, but could tell he was gutted he didn't have his proper tools 😂
Haha my thoughts exactly!
Loved seeing how things are done in France
Solax non hybrid inverters have a built in ground test; upon powering up they inject to small current into the ground to see if it is there. In earlier software revisions this ground current tripped the RCD. So every morning at sunrise the RCD tripped. I ended up living without it. There can be considerable capacitive ground current when using thin film type PV panels and single phase inverters. SMA has an app note how to trick and compensate for this. Three phase inverters have the avg panel voltage at ground level, and do not suffer from capacitive leakage
Careful about the tax arrangements .. in France it includes all social security and basic health cover.
Over Voltage Protection NEEDS earth bonding of the Solar panels.
Also:
In counties with a lot of snow like here in Austria homeowners may also go onto the roof to clear the snow.
In that case live voltage on a panel could be deadly.
Interesting to see the standard of work / planning - better (?) more pragmatic than the UK.. More please :-)
You must test RCD on top contacts not on input (bottom contacts) and im car mechanic 🤔 and load input should be from the bottom if im right and top contacts output to loads
hi! In Romania the labour is taxed with 48,5%!!! and it sucks.....
Don't write off the idea of running a business in France. I think corp tax in the UK and France is now the same (25%), and although the social contributions are high the pension you get at the end is much more than the state pension in the UK. Plus the health cover is (currently) better in France, saying that, the health system is creaking under the pressure, but not as bad as in the UK.
I was thinking Karl Urban, especially when he put the glasses on
UNI-T has a UT251A clamp meter to measure ground leakage current
Loved it!
Belgium is on par with France from a tax perspective but likely gets better spent (more useful) as in Belgium
Interesting...I have a 2 year old installation with a Fronius Symo transformerless inverter on a 30 mA RCD and it never tripped. The leakage on the AC side is about 5 mA (I used a KPS DCM300LEAK to measure). I regularly test the RCD with a Metrel MI 3125.
In Europe highest Taxis always in between Denmark Germany and Austria
thanks, another great video maybe next time bring your toolbox with so you know that you are doing tests with tools you know.
RCD or "Interrupteur différentiel 2P 230V~ 40A type AC 300mA - 2 modules" Legrand brand - Found it at 60€.
They could find a solution to run cleanly the cables from the roof to the DC box.......maybe they could but was pricier.
I miss Aix ! Got to get back there but my work drags me back - must delegate more..
Earth bonding of solar panels. Interesting and I have never got a straight answer on my installation in the UK.
I have a metal roof (Kingspan ks1000). Inner and outer skin metal with PV mounting across trapezoidal. Metal fixings traversing through roof so path to inside of building.
Should metal roof earth bonded on inner or outer skin to protect PV fault or lightening?
Very interesting video and what a nice chap!
RF "earth bonding" can be done with suitable capacitors. It gets complicated because long earth cables are inductors but I can see why the French would want the panels bonded
FWIW British installations are extremely lax on RFI issues, due to decades of non-enforcement by OFCOM
I really liked that video, nice trip to France, meeting new friend, great scenery and awesome holiday feelings
Thank you so much!
Perfect Scots accent! Region must have been North Scotland he visited 🙃
I think so!
Aberdeenshire I would suggest. Don’t ask for a village, but I’d guess Alford area.
You also might want to check your mc 4 connectors for installationfaults. When moisture from the damp environment in the morning reaches your live circuits. your rcd will trip
18:40 there is no ground-neutral bond in off grid mode. In on-grid mode the bond should be removed to not have grounding loops.
Would that bonding issue be solved if it went to a separate erarth stake? No interference with the system, but still earthed.
Sounded good to me (the Scottish accent) but then I'm a southerner. Not sure about loft being BE and attic AE though?
There are a lot of rich people in the south of France, all the rich Europeans are concentrated there, so if you want to target the big villas and high-quality services for your business, I think it's the right place. Taxes are a secondary issue when you can double the amount of benefits.
Haha true
And to be fair, the French welfare system is quite generous. So while you have to pay a lot, you're getting a lot out of it.
@@Felix-st2ue As François says, everything is lumped together, but it all adds up to a lot of money all at once, and you realize how many taxes and services you're paying, which can be very scary, unlike in the U.S for example, where everything is separate, but in the end the total amounts aren't very far apart. The big difference is in salary levels, so you have to charge more to have the same standard of living.
Most pv panel manufacturers want you to earth the panels. I think they do that to prevent PID.
We were entertained.
Drinking Belgium beer in France LOL
The trees lining the roads are plane trees, not oaks. This was Napoleon's idea, to provide shade for his troops as they moved around France.
DC cables "naked" with direct contact to the tiles? And quite low on ventilation below the panels.
So, you put on a harness and hold the end of the rope in your hand? Very safe, I'm sure.
Def Pedro Pascal!!! - just read the other comments - I can see Russell Crowe too!
in Hungary, we bond and earth sooar panels but we earth it with a separate earthing rod
Francois! How do you install on this type of roof!?!?!? I have a customer in Australia with the same roof.
I think Francois resembles Pilou Asbæk from GOT or Hugh Jackman
Yeah I enjoyed the content of this video. More please 😀
Deal!
As the RCD is tripping at 30mA could it be a wrongly badged Chinese 300mA one.
The video mentioned that unearthed panels give off radio signals.Would the panels also interfer with getting television signals if the antenna is located in the attic? Had perfect signal before the panels were installed, now its patchy enough.
In short, yes. Switched mode power supply circuits that you'll find in inverters are infamous for generating electrical noise unless they've been really well designed. Signals can radiate from the cables as well. Mounting the aerial outside will likely be the fix.
So, are you no longer operating in the UK now Jordan?
Hadn’t realised you’d moved to France.
Still in full swing in the UK but I run my business from abroad and come back to the UK once a month for a week to work with the team. We have grown a lot and I am able to run things remotely most of the time thanks to the amazing team we have. Video update coming soon.
I really enjoyed the video and I would love to see a follow-up.
Great! Thanks for letting me know.
He looks like Arnold Solarfitter... 'I'll Be back' ..'to sort out the breaker'...
Solaredge inverters/optimizers were temporarily forbidden in germany due to EMC issues, radiating and inhibiting car door remotes control systems
When there is a fire don't park your car on the grass but stay on the road when there is no other traffic
tax system is a lot fairer in France a lot less tax dodging and a better welfare
I think Alibaba testing equipment nullifies all results as void ;) you could replicate rain with the hose
Thanks for an interesting video Jordan
Glad you enjoyed it Jim!
25:09 About the same in Belgium . above 45.000 euro you pay 50% tax in Belgium ( lower income = lower taxes ) .. one of the highest in Europe i think ..
Especially as an independant sole trader no BV ( LTD in uk ) . If you have a BV ( ltd ) you can indeed do dividents and pay less taxes ( but more complicated )
So if the taxes are so low in UK why is Artisan then 3x times so expensive as an electrican in Belgium lol ...🤣😂
more please
Really interesting to see and hear about the differences between French and UK electical requirements... and clearly British Electricians are much better!!! ;-)
Beer is a diuretic and is not recommended for rehydration 😓
Panels dont need earth. All metal parts of the pv installation need earth bonding. Didnt used to be that way but after an inspection on a older installation we had to fix that for 2000 panels on a flat roof.. not the best job in the world.
Denmark is one of the highest taxed countries en the world 😕
So I was expecting someone to get at least one electrical shock, but not.