Manager 1 - Bill Uttley Manager 2 - Dave Krambeck Manager 3 - TME Associates Manager 4 - Rick Silverland (Rosalie Morton being the lawyer) Manager 5 - Carlos Bernal Manager 6 - Campbell-Silver-Cosby Corporation (Bill Cosby being the big TV star) Manager 7 - Ron DeBlasio and Jeff Wald of Campbell-Silver-Cosby Corporation Manager 8 - Bill Uttley
YouDummy The whole thing is comical if it weren't for the personal hardships. Nobody in The Turtles ever saw anywhere near $250k (in the old days anyway) not to mention $2.5 million. You can't get blood from a stone which is also funny.
Too bad their connection with Cosby didn't help them more. They could've signed to Cosby's Tetragrammaton label (same time Deep Purple was breaking with "Hush"), could've been better than the screwing White Whale gave them.
Ha! I filmed that, back in the late 80's, when I worked for Rhino! It's weird to accidentally bump into something you filmed--Mark and Howard were really nice guys--we also interviewed Ray Manzerak, Stephen Stills with Graham Nash and a bunch of other people for that documentary--I"m gonna look...
I'm French,I can't understand every subtleties of the English speaking,but I can see they have a tremendous sense of humor. Really good to see that these two guys are so Happy together !
Oh CRAP! I love the "Then we break up!" part! Ingenious and sad at the same time. Ingenious because they got that lawsuit out of the way, sad because they were forced to break up to do it.
This was just great and says a lot about them that they can be so humourous about stuff which must have worried them at the time. A lot of the British Sixties groups were also rucked - Animals, Yardbirds, Small Faces to name but a few. Thanks for posting.
These guys played for my college homecoming back in '68. They were amazing for in addition to their own stuff, they could sound like ANY band popular at that time. They played for us as "The Turtles" but soon after, because of the lawsuits, they were forbidden to call themselves that AND they were even forbidden to use their OWN names! They became Flo and Eddy, and started playing with Frank Zappa and the Mothers of Invention.
Manager #1 was BILL UTTLEY. He was the one suing them for millions. He owned a club and "got big" later on as they say by managing Steppenwolf and Three Dog Night. (actually the Turtles' first manager was LA deejay Reb Foster, but they're clearly referring to Uttley on Manager #1.) Manager #2 was DAVE KRAMBECK. He started out as their road manager and schemed them into making him their regular manager. He's the one who ran off to Mexico with Jim Pons' wife.
Sorry about your dog! :-( My late husband was a contemporary of these guys - Oz Bach of Spanky and Our Gang. Oz always said changing agents is like changing deck chairs on the Titanic. I rest my case!
I have to wonder how much more they could have accomplished if they didn't have to deal with all that bullsh*t! Cool band and cool guys! Thank-Q! Gregg
Great video for musicians! Get a contract and get a lawyer that's good and is really on your side to check managers out. Gotta do your research and homework before you sign with anyone. Glad they made it. These guys worked with Zappa after their horrific music business journey.
The Turtles with Flo and Eddie still tour! Check out Hippiefest this year. If you love their music but haven't seen this band, you're missing about half the FUN! They sing like angels and act like demons.
I love the Turtles, always will. If you get a chance check them out doing "Eve of Destruction". Very, very cool. Rock on guys. Great work with The Mothers also.
Isnt it funny how all our favorite bands and music leave us with great memorises and dreams and yet to them it was just a job for a few years, I am stuck in the 1960s because of bands like the Turtles, Mama's and the papa's, Crispian st Peters so on and so on. Dam you all I loved the 60s, Woodstock and Isle of Wight festivals radio Caroline and the movement, fuck I am 60 now and its just a memory. Michael
The Turtles broke up before Mark and Howard joined the Mothers. However, for legal reasons, they first appeared on Chunga's Revenge as The Phlorescent Leech and Eddie.
Can't believe these guys weren't smart enough to get a lawyer of their own before signing with all these managers, Don't you think they'd learn after signing after the first manager? Look at all the money they lost in all this fiasco! Sad!
I love them Turtles, and this is really tragic! You guys Rock! I can relate because I had a similar issue, but they are making money and I'm just sitting here in my pad!
TV star manager was Bill Cosby. He owned part of a management company, Campbell-Silver-Cosby Corporation, so his name was attached. However, he didn't actually manage the group. Howard Kaylan said it in a book he released a couple of years ago.
***** Nope, it appears it was Cosby. There was a lot of talk before Howard's book came out a couple years ago that it was probably Clark, but his book says otherwise. Campbell-Silver-Cosby Corporation was Manager 6, Ron DeBlasio and Jeff Wald of Campbell-Silver-Cosby Corporation were Manager 7.
@HistoryofTek No doubt they are very cool people. No doubt they have seen this video clip here and allowed it to stay up, for which I am extremely grateful. I've *SO* enjoyed hosting this video for the last 4 years.
"Manager #1" seems to be a combination of club owner Reb Foster, who was their first manager and signed them to White Whale when they were still the Crossfires, and Bill Uttley who Dave Krambeck screwed over. *Shrugs*
I'm right with you. I'm 60 too. I feel the same way. I loved growing up in the 60's it all seemed so hopeful and exciting, the music was amazing, exciting, optimistic, Grace Slick, Beach Boys, Beatles, Simon and Garfunlkle, Chad and Jeremy, Donovan, Zombies, Sonny and Cher, The Fugs, Frank Zappa, Buffalo Springfield, the Doors, now it's just a memory, Fuck. Back then it seemed like it would go on forever. George was right, All Things Must Pass. The Buddhists have it right. Impermanence is life.
@natillegal Yes, there's another comment further down that suggests they operate almost like a married couple, blending their conversation into one smooth thread, as one mind. Truly great love here.
Haven't solved them all yet, but here's an update: 1) BILL UTTLEY 2) DAVE KRAMBECK 3) TME ASSOCIATES OF NEW YORK 4) (not sure yet) 5) (not sure yet) 6) CAMPBELL-SILVER-COSBY CORPORATION (CSG) 7) RON DEBLASIO AND JEFF WALD Howard Kaylan's recent autobio probably mentions 4 and 5 by name, but I haven't gotten it yet.
“The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side.” ― Hunter S. Thompson
Thank you very much for this! Very helpful. So there was no Dick Clark? I must amend some comments then. Good work Brandon, thanks. Long live the Turtles! Love to Mark and Howard.
Thay ARE being very careful not to name names. I think Frank Zappa didn't manage the Turtles. I think these guys hooked up with Zappa after their Turtle days. This fiasco they say was between 1966 to 1974. Although many musicians did have a beef with Zappa, such as Wildman Fisher.
Ya gotta have brains to write a song like "Eleanor". Howard, the guy on the right, wrote that song. Look for it on the right thumbnail list. (Somebody spelled it Elenore).
The music industry can be very screwed up. I'm starting to see that. The managers say that the Turtles signed these contracts or made promises they didn't keep. However, it can be very difficult to be a musician. Look at the rights to the Beatles' music. Paul McCartney has to pay money to play his own songs. Yes, he is a rich man, but what about other musicians. I know someone who can't perform some of his own music because he is in danger of getting sewed.
The Record Label Screw Them More They Went Back On Their Word And Refuse to Fund The Turtles Last Album “Shell Shock”. And Then Sue Flo & Eddie For The Masters & The Turtles Name. And There real name. They Won The Masters. But until 1983 They Won There Names And Turtles
This is the HISTORY OF THE MUSIC BIZZ FOLKS! I know the story as I was conned repeatedly too and it is the constant from decade to decade! I don't think there's an honest agent or manager or music lawyer out there!
That's a tall order. If musicians devoted half their time to business they'd be only half as good as musicians. That's why they have agents and managers, so they can focus on art. They just need fair, honest agents and managers that don't steal from them.
@@ChrisCasadyanimation I made this observation based on today's music business where artists pretty much have to be their own management, accountants, lawyers, and so forth. Back then, as is now, there have been horror stories about musicians regardless of genre who were ripped off by dishonest management. There's nothing wrong with devoting some time to learning about the business side of music. It will save everyone involved a lot of financial headaches.
@@AdrianDeVore Humans have specialized for a reason. While you have a point, it doesn't simply end with learning the business side. We're not a society of renaissance men, we're a society of specialists.
@TileNut yea.......hey why don't you find Howard Kaylan on FB and make him your friend ....he is on my friend's list and I know he would accept you.....
You know this is funny because they present it as being humorous fashoion ...BUT, when all this was going down and all they wanted to do is make music and get paid for it it wasn't funny. ....but, it is so typical of what was going on back then. It's just as crooked today ...but with different type of individuals.
hi guys,, look up gabriel {the band from seattle} I am hoping that I am the only person left with enough brains to say to you.. I am the choir you are not only preaching to,, but the choir you never had to join, .. google cary fly .. i dare you .. by the way all of us (northwest band guys) are probably your biggest fans.. we were your warmup act at kennedy pavillion in spokane , I think , what , '73? '74? '72?? we were called sleepy john..
Manager 1 - Bill Uttley
Manager 2 - Dave Krambeck
Manager 3 - TME Associates
Manager 4 - Rick Silverland (Rosalie Morton being the lawyer)
Manager 5 - Carlos Bernal
Manager 6 - Campbell-Silver-Cosby Corporation (Bill Cosby being the big TV star)
Manager 7 - Ron DeBlasio and Jeff Wald of Campbell-Silver-Cosby Corporation
Manager 8 - Bill Uttley
YouDummy The whole thing is comical if it weren't for the personal hardships. Nobody in The Turtles ever saw anywhere near $250k (in the old days anyway) not to mention $2.5 million.
You can't get blood from a stone which is also funny.
Too bad their connection with Cosby didn't help them more. They could've signed to Cosby's Tetragrammaton label (same time Deep Purple was breaking with "Hush"), could've been better than the screwing White Whale gave them.
Then...WE BREAK UP
But why would anybody hate Bill Cosby??
Bill Uttley worked for Reb Foster.
The Turtles may have been the first band for Reb's agency.
I'll research it a but more.
Ha! I filmed that, back in the late 80's, when I worked for Rhino! It's weird to accidentally bump into something you filmed--Mark and Howard were really nice guys--we also interviewed Ray Manzerak, Stephen Stills with Graham Nash and a bunch of other people for that documentary--I"m gonna look...
We become his new group, we're friends and then...WE BREAK UP🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 I broke up when I saw this.
They have an amazing sense of humour for what they've been through. Blows my mind. Not a shred of bitterness shows through - true entertainers!
I'm French,I can't understand every subtleties of the English speaking,but I can see they have a tremendous sense of humor.
Really good to see that these two guys are so Happy together !
Oh CRAP! I love the "Then we break up!" part! Ingenious and sad at the same time. Ingenious because they got that lawsuit out of the way, sad because they were forced to break up to do it.
This was just great and says a lot about them that they can be so humourous about stuff which must have worried them at the time. A lot of the British Sixties groups were also rucked - Animals, Yardbirds, Small Faces to name but a few. Thanks for posting.
These guys played for my college homecoming back in '68. They were amazing for in addition to their own stuff, they could sound like ANY band popular at that time. They played for us as "The Turtles" but soon after, because of the lawsuits, they were forbidden to call themselves that AND they were even forbidden to use their OWN names! They became Flo and Eddy, and started playing with Frank Zappa and the Mothers of Invention.
@HistoryofTek I would also like to thank The Turtles for allowing this to stay up.
Hey Chris!!!
@@markguit6282 what?!?
Manager #1 was BILL UTTLEY. He was the one suing them for millions. He owned a club and "got big" later on as they say by managing Steppenwolf and Three Dog Night. (actually the Turtles' first manager was LA deejay Reb Foster, but they're clearly referring to Uttley on Manager #1.)
Manager #2 was DAVE KRAMBECK. He started out as their road manager and schemed them into making him their regular manager. He's the one who ran off to Mexico with Jim Pons' wife.
Sorry about your dog! :-( My late husband was a contemporary of these guys - Oz Bach of Spanky and Our Gang. Oz always said changing agents is like changing deck chairs on the Titanic. I rest my case!
I have to wonder how much more they could have accomplished if they didn't have to deal with all that bullsh*t! Cool band and cool guys!
Thank-Q!
Gregg
Great video for musicians! Get a contract and get a lawyer that's good and is really on your side to check managers out. Gotta do your research and homework before you sign with anyone. Glad they made it. These guys worked with Zappa after their horrific music business journey.
Gotta love Volman. He is my music business teacher. Let's just say class is pretty interesting.
Welp, it's 2018 and one of their best songs is still being used for marketing today...
Sara: Re: Spanky and Co....Yesterday's Rain...one of the greatest songs ever!
thank you for sharing
it is ugly but real and still happening....
mj
Manager(s) #3 was TME Associates of New York. The transfer from Manager #2 (Krambeck) to TME was in March 1968.
These guys are BRILLIANT!
great attitudes those two have. XD
Great video. What a laugh. Top ending.
"Happy Together" is my favorite song. I wish the business wasn't so messed up. That sucks.
I always liked 'Youuu Baby....'
The Turtles with Flo and Eddie still tour! Check out Hippiefest this year. If you love their music but haven't seen this band, you're missing about half the FUN! They sing like angels and act like demons.
They just played the LA County Fair last Sunday night.
I love the Turtles, always will. If you get a chance check them out doing "Eve of Destruction". Very, very cool. Rock on guys. Great work with The Mothers also.
Isnt it funny how all our favorite bands and music leave us with great memorises and dreams and yet to them it was just a job for a few years, I am stuck in the 1960s because of bands like the Turtles, Mama's and the papa's, Crispian st Peters so on and so on. Dam you all I loved the 60s, Woodstock and Isle of Wight festivals radio Caroline and the movement, fuck I am 60 now and its just a memory. Michael
The Turtles broke up before Mark and Howard joined the Mothers. However, for legal reasons, they first appeared on Chunga's Revenge as The Phlorescent Leech and Eddie.
At least you guys will live forever!!
My favorite single by The Turtles (and favorite song title of all-time) is "Grim Reaper of Love".
this is just a classic....thank you posting this....
turtles are cool
Brilliant. I've waited 2 years for that comment. Thank you!
"And then we break up". Love it! That be rock`n roll for ye.
They were young and inexperienced!
It was the 60s they got smarter in 70s & 80s
Somebody needs to make a documentary about bad deals famous bands made.
All but a memory now
Can't believe these guys weren't smart enough to get a lawyer of their own before signing with all these managers, Don't you think they'd learn after signing after the first manager? Look at all the money they lost in all this fiasco! Sad!
I love them Turtles, and this is really tragic! You guys Rock! I can relate because I had a similar issue, but they are making money and I'm just sitting here in my pad!
TV star manager was Bill Cosby. He owned part of a management company, Campbell-Silver-Cosby Corporation, so his name was attached. However, he didn't actually manage the group. Howard Kaylan said it in a book he released a couple of years ago.
No I think it was Dick Clark
***** Nope, it appears it was Cosby. There was a lot of talk before Howard's book came out a couple years ago that it was probably Clark, but his book says otherwise. Campbell-Silver-Cosby Corporation was Manager 6, Ron DeBlasio and Jeff Wald of Campbell-Silver-Cosby Corporation were Manager 7.
Did you get all that??? Ha! Ha! Flo & Eddie are the greatest..
@HistoryofTek No doubt they are very cool people. No doubt they have seen this video clip here and allowed it to stay up, for which I am extremely grateful. I've *SO* enjoyed hosting this video for the last 4 years.
I like Turtles.
It's almost a shaggy dog story, but that's a hell of a punchline.
"Manager #1" seems to be a combination of club owner Reb Foster, who was their first manager and signed them to White Whale when they were still the Crossfires, and Bill Uttley who Dave Krambeck screwed over. *Shrugs*
@mansfieldmick You have it backwards... Howard is Eddie, Mark is Flo.
I'm right with you. I'm 60 too. I feel the same way. I loved growing up in the 60's it all seemed so hopeful and exciting, the music was amazing, exciting, optimistic, Grace Slick, Beach Boys, Beatles, Simon and Garfunlkle, Chad and Jeremy, Donovan, Zombies, Sonny and Cher, The Fugs, Frank Zappa, Buffalo Springfield, the Doors, now it's just a memory, Fuck. Back then it seemed like it would go on forever. George was right, All Things Must Pass. The Buddhists have it right. Impermanence is life.
i LOVe the animal turtle!!!!! So i love the Turtles :)
Got to love it, total truth!
i'd like to see this again but naming names!
Problem with the music business is that it is mostly business.
@natillegal Yes, there's another comment further down that suggests they operate almost like a married couple, blending their conversation into one smooth thread, as one mind. Truly great love here.
Awsome !!!!
hey what happened to Grand Funk? i guess i missed that story!
HI FLO AND EDDIE, we're still here. DWEEZIL played ALBANY on Beethoven's birthday. Happy XMAS!
Haven't solved them all yet, but here's an update:
1) BILL UTTLEY
2) DAVE KRAMBECK
3) TME ASSOCIATES OF NEW YORK
4) (not sure yet)
5) (not sure yet)
6) CAMPBELL-SILVER-COSBY CORPORATION (CSG)
7) RON DEBLASIO AND JEFF WALD
Howard Kaylan's recent autobio probably mentions 4 and 5 by name, but I haven't gotten it yet.
#4 is Rick Soderlind. The lawyer is Rosalie Morton. #5 is Charlie Galvin. The big TV star is Bill Cosby. Hilariously told.
LOL awesome
Gotta love Flo and Eddie.
Check out "Grand Funk Railroad History" here on UA-cam. It is a 5-part documentary but well worth the watching.
Whatever happened to Al Nicol?
Does anybody have the names of all these managers, preferably in the order they occurred?
Hahaha. Wow guys, that's a hell of a story. That's why I will never ever get a manager.
That's the music industry for you.
@harrietcow Read through some of the back comments. One theory is it's Dick Clark.
So, what's new in the business?
“The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side.”
― Hunter S. Thompson
@lydiahanie Does that mean you watch this particular clip on UA-cam? Does Mark know this is uploaded here? You watched *THIS CLIP*?
Thank you very much for this! Very helpful. So there was no Dick Clark? I must amend some comments then. Good work Brandon, thanks.
Long live the Turtles! Love to Mark and Howard.
Awesome...lol
Thay ARE being very careful not to name names. I think Frank Zappa didn't manage the Turtles. I think these guys hooked up with Zappa after their Turtle days. This fiasco they say was between 1966 to 1974. Although many musicians did have a beef with Zappa, such as Wildman Fisher.
Ya gotta have brains to write a song like "Eleanor". Howard, the guy on the right, wrote that song. Look for it on the right thumbnail list. (Somebody spelled it Elenore).
The thumbnails change all the time based on the viewer's previous videos. Not sure how that was 5 years ago however.
it is spelled Elenore
awsome!!!^^
Some say Manager Number 1 is still suing them to this day
LOL! Thank you.
Bummer.
Of course they hate the business. They're musicians, they like music. There's more to music than business.
i think Dick Clark was in the mix somewhere
Incredible story! I think mgr #1 got his comeupance when the band broke up right after he dropped the lawsuit...WAY TO GO!! HAHAHA.
I've give a cookie to whoever can list the names of these managers :)
Here you go. Cookie, please! theturtles.com/downloads/TurtlesLONGHistory_1989.pdf
Manager number 6: The big TV star manager... Who do you reckon?
I'm thinking Dick Clark maybe?
This is awesome! (Not their situation. That must of sucked. haha)
Really? That's terrific!
@TileNut Howard Kaylan is very cool......
Poor guys.....funny as hell tho, sorry lool
i love #2~!!! loooooooooool
Wow. And I thought Grand Funk got screwed over!!!
The music industry can be very screwed up. I'm starting to see that. The managers say that the Turtles signed these contracts or made promises they didn't keep. However, it can be very difficult to be a musician. Look at the rights to the Beatles' music. Paul McCartney has to pay money to play his own songs. Yes, he is a rich man, but what about other musicians. I know someone who can't perform some of his own music because he is in danger of getting sewed.
Lesson here, never ever ever sign away your publishing.
Look at Dolly Parton, for example, kept her publishing since she was 17.
The Record Label Screw Them More They Went Back On Their Word And Refuse to Fund The Turtles Last Album “Shell Shock”. And Then Sue Flo & Eddie For The Masters & The Turtles Name. And There real name.
They Won The Masters. But until 1983 They Won There Names And Turtles
This is the HISTORY OF THE MUSIC BIZZ FOLKS! I know the story as I was conned repeatedly too and it is the constant from decade to decade! I don't think there's an honest agent or manager or music lawyer out there!
@fkappreciative
Do you like my new car? at the Filmore East... Hilarious.
What was the time frame of this?
+superfuzzymomma I think this is from the early 90's , a guess.
+Chris Casady Spot on. It's from this - www.imdb.com/title/tt1919159/?ref_=nm_flmg_slf_2
This is why musicians should devote equal time to the business side of music.
These guys got royally screwed!
That's a tall order. If musicians devoted half their time to business they'd be only half as good as musicians. That's why they have agents and managers, so they can focus on art. They just need fair, honest agents and managers that don't steal from them.
@@ChrisCasadyanimation I made this observation based on today's music business where artists pretty much have to be their own management, accountants, lawyers, and so forth.
Back then, as is now, there have been horror stories about musicians regardless of genre who were ripped off by dishonest management. There's nothing wrong with devoting some time to learning about the business side of music. It will save everyone involved a lot of financial headaches.
@@AdrianDeVore Humans have specialized for a reason. While you have a point, it doesn't simply end with learning the business side. We're not a society of renaissance men, we're a society of specialists.
@@sunkintree That's why they got screwed.
@@AdrianDeVore sure, wasnt disagreeing on that point
They did'nt like #7 because he had dogs?
For a manager I would expect greater and more coherent sentence structures.
@TileNut yea.......hey why don't you find Howard Kaylan on FB and make him your friend ....he is on my friend's list and I know he would accept you.....
Been a looong time since the First Methodist Church in Inglewood eh, guys?
Ok. so I yelled "Fire" in a crowded theater...
Now what?
Dang guys, you (Flo & Eddie) really DO hate the business. It was fun touring with you but really, you should quit the biz.
i would like you to manage me
wow. that is a lot of crap they had to go through. funny how they just laugh about it now
American capitalism at its "finest."
thank god the business isn't like that anymore...LOL...it's worse!
You know this is funny because they present it as being humorous fashoion ...BUT, when all this was going down and all they wanted to do is make music and get paid for it it wasn't funny.
....but, it is so typical of what was going on back then.
It's just as crooked today ...but with different type of individuals.
HAHAHAHA Skillz
hi guys,, look up gabriel {the band from seattle} I am hoping that I am the only person left with enough brains to say to you.. I am the choir you are not only preaching to,, but the choir you never had to join, .. google cary fly .. i dare you .. by the way all of us (northwest band guys) are probably your biggest fans.. we were your warmup act at kennedy pavillion in spokane , I think , what , '73? '74? '72?? we were called sleepy john..