An EV Device for First Responders: Emergency Plug Demonstration
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- Опубліковано 21 сер 2024
- Paul visits the Southfield Fire Department with Patrick from StacheD Training to learn about a device that allows first responders to safely approach and handle electric vehicles.
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Teslas also have a wire loop (labled with a picture of a firefighter helmet) under the hood near the washer fluid fill. If you cut that cable it turns the car off and isolates the high voltage battery.
Most modern EVs have this as well, and a key advantage of that option is that it isolates the high-voltage battery, rather than possibly having it turn on the contactors to connect the high voltage to the onboard charger, as it does at least at some point when you connect a level 2 charging connector.
Genius!!
Our Ioniq 5 also has a big orange fuse with a firefighter helmet on it, pull it to cut the high voltage power from the car.
If u can get to it and the current potential is still in the battery and short circuit can happen inside the unfused area
Yep, though this device may be more useful for something like a medical emergency where the car isn't crashed but maybe just stopped in the middle of the road because the driver passed out. The rescuers could plug this device in to make sure the vehicle is immobilized without having to damage the vehicle.
As much as I love this for use in emergencies, this is also a useful tool for carjacking. Until now, a person on foot hasn't been able to disable a vehicle from the outside.
I like the fact that (at least on a Tesla) the charge door is locked when the vehicle is operating, making it a bit harder to insert this device.
Most EV's I know lock the charge port door when the car is on. You'd have to force them open.
Car jacking was my first thought. My second thought was that every electrical vehicle has a cut loop for first responders. It's designed into the vehicle and it's a lot less janky than this contraption. Also, when I get my first BEV, it's going to be equipped with a charge port ejection system in case I get into a situation at a charging station.
Just last week, I speculated about the possibility of such a device for use by robbers and carjackers. Seems my concerns were well-founded and even tame---I assumed the vehicle had to be stopped for this to work.
This is why you use a PIN on a Tesla. Cannot be stolen unless you give away the PIN
@@mikebalentine I don't think someone who forces you at gunpoint to get out of your car will hesitate to add "give me your pin or else" to his spiel...
There’s a video of the German response to a burning Chevy Bolt. A crane and huge tank (of water?) is brought to the scene and whole car is lowered into tank. You’ve got to admire German preparation and efficiency.
Dutch fire fighters have that as well. welcome in Europe!
Where can I find a video of that?
Now that's what I call problem solving
Neat. But somewhat unnecessary for a Bolt (or anything that isn't a f'ing Tesla, and a Tesla would be slag by the time they got there.)... the batteries aren't firecrackers. Sure, they have plenty of power to melt things - like any battery - but the battery chemistry does not create an impossible to quench fire.
@@jfbeam I suppose it is the German sense of drama. It was a rather Wagnerian end for the poor self-immolating Bolt.
Since the car thinks it's charging/ or want to charge, the contacts are still closed. Seems still dangerous to me.
That was my first thought as well. Seems like there needs to be a SAE (etc) standard that would allow for a device like this to be plugged in and work like the firefighters 'cut loop'.
The purpose of this tool is not to disable high voltage , but to ensure the vehicle is in park and some what stabilized to then allow firefighters to safely proceed with rescue which could also include high voltage disconnect at that point.
@@IphoneMod especially useful as cars become more automatic and the connected to the internet so they could be driven remotely
no. contacts is the last thing after charging starts on charger side. this is just a charge port dummy plug
it creates a fault sitiation where the plug(cable) is connected but there is a ground fault or something. So the car signals that there is something connected but would not charge or put power on the charge leads. just the data connection is active.
Also, if this gizmo only (or _mostly_ ) needs to work on Teslas and CCS1-inlet EVs , then having the detachable (and therefore _loose-able_ ) CCS/NACS adapter is silly. The thing is boomerang-shaped, with two ends; put one connector type on each end, and have nothing to lose.
maybe it needs to be sealed on the other end for some reason?
Maybe the other side is CCS2?
Probably a removable battery on the other end already. What we should be doing is standardizing the Tesla plug in the beginning. The CCS plug is really dumb.
The other end (although not shown end-on) is labelled "CHAdeMO".
@@paulsladen The same drive-system immobilization should be achievable through the J1772 connector that even all CHAdeMO-inlet EVs have, and which (presumably) the CCS end of the gizmo would connect to. "Ah but what if the J1772 port is trashed, but the CHAdeMO port survived? Wouldn't you want extra features designed in to handle that eventuality?" That would be an awfully unlikely one, wouldn't it?
Ok - so I get the desire for this tool, and interesting how effective it is, but YIKES! guess what just went straight to the top of the (pro?) car jacker's wish list!
That it is basically just a chip faking the communication protocol of a charging station suggests that these can be DIY'd by hackers and deployed on the black market today.
Not good for folks living in high crime prone areas.
Exactly
Stay tactical
I mean you can diy this with a couple resistors. The documentation on how chargers work is readily available.
I guess you just need to be aware if someone is approaching the car and opening your charge port door without your permission. I know in a Tesla, the vehicle needs to be unlocked for the charge port door to open willingly, which is why they demonstrated the need for the pry tool
Haha, considering some of the crazy advanced crypto relay attacks car thief’s do this stuff is child’s play to them, a ccs plug with a few resistors.
Even though I appreciate that a tool like this exists, it seems like a workaround for having a real, true emergency power off mode that isolates all appropriate systems, etc. while still assuring that passengers can escape if needed.
disables the drive system, but not the HV itself. cut th HVIL loop if you need to disable all the HV stuff.
If the vehicle does not appear to be on fire, there may be time to pull out or cut the loop which completes the low voltage circuit to the contactor in the main battery. There usually another loop in one of the roof pillars which may be quickly cut with a power saw.
it creates a fault situation where the plug(cable) is connected but there is a ground fault or something. So the car signals that there is something connected but would not charge or put power on the charge leads. just the data connection is active. just examine the charge protocol and you will find out...
If it doesn't disable the main battery connectors (safety switch) seems pretty a useless tool to me.
this tool is to shutdown and disable driving. shutdown is achieved when charport is open on a tesla. driving is disabled with any charge cable attached. the light on the device has nothing to do with the ev.
@@davidck1 No, it doesn’t do anything to shut the car down, it just puts the car in park. What the original comment was saying is that it actually does the opposite. Since the car thinks it’s charging, it won’t disconnect the battery like it normally does, which can actually be worse.
@@kylecoolky1189 every system related to driving is off when charging
@@davidck1 The only thing it does is prevent the car from shifting out of park. There is nothing else related to driving that it would affect. The plug would actually keep the high voltage battery awake and plugged in rather than it shutting off like normal.
it creates a fault situation where the plug(cable) is connected but there is a ground fault or something. So the car signals that there is something connected but would not charge or put power on the charge leads. just the data connection is active. just examine the charge protocol and you will find out...
I really don't understand how so many people on this thread think it's a great product. It's a product with no use case. A firefighter has NEVER had to come on-site with ANY VEHICLE and couldn't figure out how to make sure it doesn't move. Unless your mentally slow and don't understand what P means... 🧐🤔🤓😝
Firefighters need to deal with vehicles they may not have immediate access to.
LOL. As someone who only appreciates most firefighters immensely, totally agree and yes, totally LOL'd seeing your very rational comment!
Where’s the P on a Tesla Model S? Would that be on the broken screen you cannot use or the hidden button you cannot find? Just saying some EVs don’t have the traditional center console stalk.
@@legostud Either on the right hand stalk as a button, or on the touch screen + center console.
If the screen doesn't work there's always a backup.
@@logitech4873 BTW: For Tesla, the backup is: two of - open driver door, - unbuckled seatbelt, - no weight on the driver seat
Thank you for your honesty; no sales pitch.. Excellent, useful video. Thanks from all your listeners!
No sales pitch? Lol, what did you think this video was made for?
This will surely increase car jacking. All the car thief has to do is jump out at the traffic lights and plug in. This disables the car and the occupant can do nothing. Not exactly well thought out is it?
Plot twist:
That's the whole reason this was invented. Money!
I have a fix for it. 🔫
Isn't a gun much easier though? I guess if a car jacker was trying to avoid a sentence for homicide but they were ok with grand larceny, maybe this makes sense? 🤷♂
This doesn’t turn off the car it just keeps it in park. As a former firefighter for 16 years you need to be trained on how to cut the power
The purpose is to disable the car from moving so you can cut the power more safely.
@@Taluvian you hardly ever see a car fire rolling down the road.
@@DavidSpector Who says car is on fire? Here the fire department uses the jaws of life to open up cars and remove people. Unlike a gas car where you can hear the engine running or not, an electric car is silent. The car in drive could suddenly move and run emergency responders over or crush them, i.e. why you want to disable driving and then cut the power.
Exactly. This is a dangerous device with no application in fire rescue.
If you need to put a car in park, do it the same way you do on ALL vehicles, with the gear selector and parking brake. There's nothing magical about an EV here, the same techniques used to prevent any other vehicle rolling away work on EVs
If you need to disable an EV, so you can work on it safely, cut the firefighter cut loop. Do not rely on a device that relies on tricking the vehicle into keeping the HV pack energized to give you any form of safety!
There is NEVER a situation where this device is appropriate for a fire/rescue situation.
The only applications I can see for this have been covered by others: Car jackings, and police traffic stops. Not fire rescue.
@@Green__one people may use summon on the Tesla app to move the Tesla away remotely and may run over the firefighters leg.
The sound of the lightning lol. Rocking forward and back like that... what an intimidating sound lol
What a tool allowing it to do that vs putting his foot on the brake.
You can do the same thing with most automatic transmissions by putting them in park while you’re still moving. But it’s a good way to break things.
@@spacemanmat Usually only once...
It really gives a sense of how heavy that truck is. Because of all the momentum/inertia to overcome to finally stop rocking back and forth.
@@spacemanmat DO NOT DO THIS. You can break your parking pawl, and you don't want to know what that will cost.
A nice touch at the end by showcasing the Southfield Fire Department team.
Cheers
The fireman’s loop is a way safer option in more true emergency’s. Some cars it can be done in a reversible way with a plug to pull. But there are other spots you just cut the loop which will completely disable the high voltage systems and truly disable the car.
Need to immobilize the car before cutting that loop though.
Some fire departments in Norway just fill a skip with water and drop the car into it if the high voltage battery catches fire.
Know it’s been done with a few Kona’s and Bolts in Oslo for instance.
It’s a neat way to contain the fire, but requires a skip and lifting capability.
Not just some and there---Tesla's own factory fire brigade in Germany has 3 of those containers and a RoRo-carrier with a car crane for them on site.
What about the poor people trapped in the car. First they burn and then get drowned. Geez. 😂
@@legostud price you pay for being an EV early adopter. haw haw
Sounds interesting, but first you'd have to know what a "skip" is? 🤷♂
I am here with Sandy and should say, no part is a good part. This device can be used in 1% of cases and you still have to cut the first responder loop. So to be honest it is over engineered and useless.
But they'll sell dozens!
@@isthatatesla They only have to make it "best practice" and they'll sell tens of thousands. Even when the departments buying recognize that it's a solving a vanishly rare problem, once it's standard they'll need to buy one just in case.
Seems more useful for law enforcement safety during pullovers of EVs than for first responders in most scenarios. You can find some edge cases for first responders but largely putting the car in park isn’t high on the problematic scenario list.
No - because any extraction requires stabilization of the vehicle, the first step of which is placing the vehicle in park
@@errhka right but all those vehicles automatically place on park when you open the door, or if a crash is detected. There are certainly scenarios you can find but they won’t be in the majority.
@@spleck615 the problem is you cannot depend on the vehicle in all scenarios to behave as you'd expect. Maybe this car stays is in park when the door is open, but another one does not. There's no way to know what the engineers have done with every car. Thus why on every vehicle you follow the same procedures to place in park, chock it, etc. This tool becomes part of the procedure for electric vehicles as another failsafe. Standard procedures are there to keep firefighters from hurting themselves - if this tool prevents the car from rolling away because a probie forgot to put it in park it will be useful. Having a 2nd line of defense in preventing accidents through procedure is not just a luxury, but critical for firefighters in those 'minority cases'. Not all vehicles you come upon are crashes either - someone might need to be medically evaluated in a car before they are moved, or the driver has had a medical emergency and is being boxed in by cars to stop the vehicle from going anywhere. As someone who actually works in this field this tool WILL be used and will eventually be standard on most engines to go to EV calls.
@@errhka if you actually want it to be helpful work with the manufacturers to have it work as an efuse and disable the HV pack while inserted. That would actually be much more useful.
Sadly in both cases it seems more useful for an attacker than first responder. Car jacker can pry open and insert in seconds while you’re at a stop light, now you can’t get away. People already have this safety concern of being locked in a charger if someone approaches.
@@spleck615 the issue is those are not standardized and would require legislation and national committees at conferences to be implemented. The plug is standardized across all vehicles and works right now. There is usefulness in that.
Lockout kits, elevator keys, etc can be purchased by thieves as well, doesn't make them any less beneficial for us.
Interesting , Thank You .
I was expecting an EMP-like device to fully disable the car, but it looks like this device just work because of the built-in safeguard of the vehicle's itself.
You got it
I saw another video a few months ago with a fire blanket that supposedly works with both ICE car fires and electric car battery fires.
The battery might still cook, but the fire actually goes out.
Great breakdown cool tool. Anything to make first responders safer is great news
Yeah nifty device to save lives but real talk 👄 we should also have a safety plug 🔌 built to disable the bs 🙄 propaganda machine running 🏃♂️ over in NaziCalifornia and Silicon Valley.
The classified defense and aerospaces hidden quantum hydrogen nuclear fusion reactor technologies. The safe clean and cheap micro fission reactors...
This is cool 😎 tech, and it's useful 👍 but the gaslighting ⛽ of this channel is getting a bit much 😳
any charge cable attached to vehicles achieves the same result. go try it if you own an ev.
@@davidck1 I was trying to be nice 😪 wtf, there you go spoiling the video and confirming more gaslighting by Munro and ASSociates.
Great video. Thank you.
That closing of the Tesla charge port 😅
Electric vehicles need an emergency port on the battery pack such that cold gas or liquid can be pumped through the pack. The regular coolant loop could be pressurized with liquid N2 or CO2 and vented to suck heat out of the pack.
As soon as you move the car the short res establishes and thermal runaway kicks off again - just let them burn.
Firefighters have an emergency loop to cut or a service plug to pull. This is just going to be abused by wrong doers.
While correct. If the loop is unable to be accessed or the marking has beenntorn away this can be a great alternative.
Explain how wrong doers are going to abuse this vs all the easier malicious things they can already do without any gadgets?
@@mynameisladder3481 it's not really possible for it to be "unable to be accessed". They just cut through your car's pillar. Job done.
@I Gotta Say The idea is out there now thanks to them, and the protocols are fairly open. Anyone could make this that has even 5% knowledge of how to make things.
@@IGottaSay very funny. With knowing that such a tool a) exists and b) works any electronic engineer can build a bootleg version of it.
On the other side: knowing that this thing exists (both legally and illegally) is knowledge that may be useful to car owners.
Hmm.. would seem appealing to bad guys as well as first responders.
You're not getting this into a Tesla in D.
@@isthatatesla Unless you also have a plastic tool, such as the one shown in the video...
@@roscozone8092 Or just any flat blade screw driver, jammed in there and forced.
Carjacker's dream
Misuse would be kidnapping, another felony.
@@isthatatesla A possible scenario:
- Two felons (possibly armed) approach an EV stopped at traffic lights at night
- One inserts a disabling dongle (AKA "Emergency Plug") into the charge port (possibly spray painted black and / or with indicator lights disconnected to avoid attracting attention) and immobilising the vehicle
- EV occupant gets out to investigate
- One felon attacks or subdues the occupant
- The felons enter the vehicle and drives away
The felons may also deprive the occupant(s) of cell phones and other means of calling for help, allowing the felons to get away.
Before returning home to Australia, I used to live in Johannesburg, near the city's most active carjacking intersection (N1 highway and 14th avenue). Getting home at night was always a white-knuckled ride. While carjacking was rife, kidnapping was unheard of. In the wrong hands, I can see this product making life exceptionally dangerous in certain parts of the world.
Its worth noting that petrol driven vehicles are NOT cannot be disabled from outside. Apparently, however, these new EVs CAN. Weird.
@@roscozone8092 any car can be disabled if the brake system is messed with, or if a parking boot is installed. And this is fairly "outside".
(It was a very shitty design for them to build in a security vulnerability into charging ports of EVs. I just think you had an invalid point saying petrol cars don't have vulnerabilities.)
It's great when the guy who does the training (and has a company which makes money training!) doesn't even know what a safe starting point is !! God help the underlings..
I thought he was the inventor. Who was, some random Chinese company?
Note to self, disable outside access to the charge port. Only I should have access to my charge port, whats stopping a car jacker from putting this device in my car at a stop light and now I cant run, or someone from using VTG off my car to power their own stuff off my battery while I'm gone. And yes, I do modify my own vehicles, anyone who can, should.
Loving all the new content! hopefully we can distribute this new safety protocol to all fire departments across the world
We thank you so much for their service to the community and our nation.
4:56 - Holy park pawl engagement!
Another piece of equipment that could be quite useful is a car sized fire blanket like that from Bridgehill. This can allow firefighters to contain the fire and reduce its intensity. Car fires in EVs are incredibly rare, but when they do happen, isolation appears to be the best response.
Yup. Simple yet very effective.
Yeah. You're not going to put it out, so just keep the heat from igniting anything else around it. I think blankets they could throw over and shoot under, then fill with water from a hydrant or pumper to absorb the heat (with some sort of safe pressure release for the steam) could be a valuable invention for the rare times they're needed.
Thanks, Southfield FD!
Obviously, DOT needs to mandate an On/Off switch.
on tesla as soon as chargeport is opened the ev is off. if pin to drive is enabled you need to close port and enter pin to drive.
Let's make sure that On/Off switch is very easily accessible so that firefighters and car jackers can have access.... *rolls eyes*
Very cool.
“What about me? I was the first responder. I was the one who called 911.”
- Bill Burr
Giving the Park Pawl a work out
seriously
There's no transmission on these EVs, so no parking pawl, instead they use a parking brake (On the Tesla it's an extra caliper on the rear brake rotors)
@@Green__one the way that Ford was rocking back and forth it sure seemed like a parking pawl to me. If it had been a parking brake, it would have just stopped and not rocked, right?
@@toronado455 slam on the brakes in any vehicle, and you'll see that same rocking. It comes from the suspension.
Mostly good video, my only complaint is that they go over the dangers of an EV battery fire at the end (which shouldn't be understated) but fail to mention how rare they actually are. I know it shouldn't be necessary to mention this, but especially with the bolt's battery recall for fire risk, its easy for people to see EVs as tinderboxes waiting to catch fire and I've even seen anti EV propaganda 'spreading the flames' on that notion, so to speak. ICE cars are actually far more likely to catch fire.
You say they are rare and you are correct. But what you fail to understand is that they are only so rare because EVs make up a very small portion of vehicles on the road. There is no doubt that if we were 100% EV that the frequency of car fires would still be very similar.
The only difference being that EV fires can be very difficult to extinguish. God forbid an individual needs extraction/rescue from an EV and they catch alight.
It is possible that EVs are so expensive that owners have deep pockets and might "baby" the car. When the majority have EVs, I think we're going to see a lot more stupid shit being done, and yes this probably will mean more battery fires. 😆
@@aidenward4677 they are rare even when adjusted per capita. Look up some data from countries like Norway where a lot of people run EVs.
The plug is for a few cars (not most), the adapter works for most cars (which are teslas)
As most electric vehicles do not use the tesla connector *and* even teslas in most of the world afaik do not use the US style tesla connector. I would agree with Patrick.
@@Firecul Teslas make up 75% of EVs in the USA and they all use the tesla connector. Also, the EU CCS plug is different than the US CCS plug; same name, different plug
@@beilkster With that logic it should be designed only for teslas then.
There are only 4 models of tesla available to buy just now. Unless there are less than 6 total models of EV available in the US I'm assuming he meant that would be compatible with the most models of cars. Not just the one that makes up the highest % of on the road vehicles.
(I'll go with the 75% claim because I don't have the energy to research that atm to see if it is correct or not)
Re:CCS, yes it's annoying that that has not been standardised but at least (afaik) it's not really mix and match within a region. I really hope I'm not wrong there.
@@Firecul Why does number of models matter? Number of cars on the road should be the only metric
any charge cable works the same as this device. the light on the device does not connect to the ev.
Wow, this is actually a great idea!
How does it react, i always assuemed the HV Relay engages if you plug in. Wouldn’t it be way safer to just cut the first responders loop opening one of the HVILs 12V is still there and the parking brake gets applied. Please let me know its quiet important actually ..
That's the next step.
First you want to make shure the vehicle is disabled before you get inside it to cut the first responders loop. If you get into the vehicle and it's in drive and the accelerator is engaged your in trouble.
@@morilot 100% nonsense. Firefighters have been safely putting cars in park for many decades now without the ability to plug some magic device into the exterior. There's nothing at all special about an EV in this regard.
This device provides zero value, and may cause harm if anyone actually believes that it provides any safety whatsoever.
Also would have been a nice follow up question to ask how much vehicle fires on avarage these guys go to, and how much of those were EV.
Then you can see for example on a year basis they’d spent x amount of time putting out ice vehicle fires and x amount of time on ev fires.
Really wonder if the avarage on time spent is still lower on an ev even if it takes hours per 1 incident.
I am very grateful for the men and women of our emergency responders who think about and solve these issues. Bless them.
isnt this plug just a super glorified plug with one single resistor between the ground (central) pin and the PP pin ?
thats how any EV knows you plugged tinto a charger , and the Maximum current admissible by the cable depending on the resistor
Yeah but don't ruin the fun of charging fire departments a few grand for one
Yep, and this entrepreneurial firefighter found an injection molding company that can help him retire earlier.
Nope, it also needs a 12V power Source and maybe a PWM signal generator. The "Its Just Resistors" Part only applies to the Cable connecting the EVSE and the Car, but you also need to simulate the EVSE.
It's a bright yellow plastic. That's how you know it's high quality!!! 😆 (Even if it has active electronics and a battery, what do you think it would take? A $5 ATmega microcontroller?)
@Fity Bux less! A 1cts resistor.
Thats how EVs knows a cable is plugged in so they put themselves in Park mode to not accidentally drag a cable.
I wired EV cables myself as it's cheaper. So I know how they work from experience
People trying to tell there's more than a resistor and a momentary switch to open the circuit (for release) inside these are just coping.
One error. The CCS plug is not most vehicles in the US, the tesla plug is. The CCS plug is the minority.
Tesla plug is now called NACS north american charging standard
My first thought as well. Tesla plug should sensibly be the default design, based on percentage of Tesla's on the road and expected growth of their fleet.
@@catbertz 👍Agreed, and the supercharging network is the most consistent.
@@635574 Correct. It is an open standard anyone can use. Europe did the same thing, they rejected CCS combo due to how terrible j1772 was and did not want to add pins for 3 phase because the design was terrible. Hard to aligng and insert, too much pressure to insert and remove, heavy, likely not even ADA complaint at all in the USA, etc.
In 2014, europe mandated the use of the proprietary mennekes type 2 connector as it has some of the features of NACS. Easier to insert with a self guiding bevel, much lower pressure to insert, and doesn't have the silly mechanical release button which is hard to use. That is how europe ended up with Mennekes Type 2 combo, a proprietary connector with the bottom half off CCS combo slapped onto it. A step up from CCS combo, but they should have redesigned it and made it more compact like NACS.
NACS is the gold standard for ease of use and supports 1000kw while CCS combo is limited to 350kw.
Another vote for NACS. In the US I wouldn't buy a vehicle that's CCS1.
Another great video from the Munro Team! Great advancement for the naysayers!
pretty neat!
Genius invention and out of the box idea.
these things are pretty much standard fare for emergency services in the EU for the past year or so.
To me it's just a simple obvious implementation of the charging protocol in every vehicle. But it's the idea of having it done that is the actual invention here.
any charge cable in charged port achieves the same result. they just added a light to it.
Interesting. Our (Czech) fire department when they deal with EV battery fire (comparetment breached during incident, electrical failure during charging) the fireman pours a lot of water to stop the flames and then they lift and sink the entire vehicle into special movable container they fill with water. Then just observe. So far three incidents (we're small nation, 10 mil) all during charging and all full covered by media.
I think I'd rig a solenoid actuated "plug eject" pin to my car.. or mod the port with a drill to accept a tiny padlock... or just run a kill switch inside.
🙋♂️THANKS PAUL ,PATRICK,RICK and the REST OF THE MUNRO TEAM …FOR SHARING THIS VERY IMPORTANT PART 💚💚💚
REALLY COOL DEVICE ...... 🙏 THANKS TEAM MUNRO...HAVE A BEAUTIFUL FRIDAY EVERYONE ✌️
Oooohhh.... Elevator Training!
But does it force open the contactors on the battery? Seems to me that tricking the car into thinking it's charging keeps them closed, meaning some/all the orange wiring is live.
At the very least the leads from the inverter to the battery are live. I'd suggest adding this to the J1772 spec if that is the route we want to go for safety.
Exactly. This sales pitch is for an extremely dangerous device that will force the vehicle to keep the HV pack energized when otherwise it would shut it down.
This device does the same thing as putting the vehicle in park, that's all.
If you want to disable an EV, cut the firefighter cut loop. That will make it safe.
That means that if someone wants to disable your car for X reason, they can. It sounds more like car security vulnerability.
It only disables it when it's plugged in, you could just go and unplug it if someone was pulling a prank on you
@@GeoffJohnson If that prank is "give me your wallet and car keys" and is enforced with a gun, getting out and pulling the plug is the last thing you want to do.
@@HenryLoenwind I mean they can do the same right before you even get into your car too, or they could pull up and block you in
@@HenryLoenwind ...and staying inside the car would be the preferred option...? You've lost control over the situation already in this scenario...
If they can get up close to the car and plug a device in to it, yes. But in that situation, I can think other ways to disable a car that are already available. A few bullets in the engine compartment, a strip of spikes in the road. Or the most direct: Stand directly in front of the care and just /dare/ the occupant to run you over and face an assault charge.
A large amount of people here in the comments are missing the point of what this tool is actually for. People are talking about battery cut loops and fuses to pull. That's not the point. This tool is NOT for trying to isolate the battery. It's simply make sure the car is in park, or force it into park if necessary.
More Teslas on the road than all other EVs combined, yet you need an adapter for the Tesla 🤔
only in the US. the EU version have CCS plugs like every other car.
Which EVs are most likely to need such a device? :)
Underrated comment
@@MrAlbedo39 No
@@SupremeRuleroftheWorld Remember that the US has "CCS" as well. Except that it's CCS1 which is very different than European CCS2. CCS2 is even bigger, uglier and less efficient than CCS1.
I have suggested having a blade on a truck/emergency vehicle and then pushing the EV whether on fire or not to an area away from people and traffic then use the blade to push dirt into mounds on all sides. An area off the shoulder or made of dirt could be quickly prepared with a single blade sweep then move the car to the cleared area and build the mounds. The mounds would help contain water or foam and direct any smoke or debris upwards or at least not directly outward and the dirt base and mounds won't burn. This could work for motorsports at tracks and parking areas(pre prepped location around the track) and for EV fires on the road and highways. The bladed Emergency vehicle woud be protected from fire when moving the EV and when building up mounds of dirt on all sides. Once the fire is out the dirt can be collected or leveled depending on the level of soil contamination. It is relatively easy and cheap and can be done with minimal training or equipment almost anywhere without a lot of chemicals or water.
Police departments should have it too
The main contactors are still closed, and it also requires the 12v to be connected to a car which is in an accident. Having the car be put in park is fine, but this needs to be developed with the auto-makers, we need an emergency mode, not a charging-fooler.
Honestly, I know the intentions are well, but I wouldn't want the first responders using time on this.
The fireman's loop in new EVs are safer anyways, because it actually disables the battery and charge circuitry, this solution specifically keeps the battery and chargers active.
Inventing new ways to protect property and save lives. A PRACTICING mechanical engineer, Fire Chief AND clever inventor. Way to go.
You will need to be previously certified with Spiderman skills to catch the car in 30mph so you can plug this device in.
You got rid of physical small metal key just to invent something large and complicated.
it's nice 2 see new & innovative ideas/inventions that bring safety to a very needed market! especially to the emt community's! good luck! I know there's a hundred safety features I would love to see in the consumer auto industry!
heh we sell those at the company im employed at, really helpful to just stop the car and then you cut the loops if the car needs to be disabled
My tesla comes with one of these devices included. It's called a charge cable. I ran out and made a v ideo as soon as I finish watching this video
Battery pyro fuse is "airbag module" activated. Could still see a need for this in some cases
The only problem this device seems to address is not an “EV problem.” I’m not aware of any ICE vehicle that can be turned off or put in park from outside the vehicle save for race cars with emergency disconnects. In fact, most EVs will not roll/drive away without user input whereas most ICE vehicles will roll/drive away without the user preventing it. (Assuming vehicle in gear obviously) As others have mention this seems to be more dangerous then helpful.
This is a good start. Eventually, a safe way to extinguish battery fires will be created. Great report!
6:24 Never understood using gallons of water as a measurement for putting out an EV fire. You can put millions of gallons of water on a lithium battery fire and it still wont go out. It creates its own oxygen and fuel (the electrolyte), so water, nor foam, can put it out. Water is just cooling the battery while it releases its energy and helps to reduce other things around it from burning.
Just like sodium. You put water on it, and it reacts violently. That's why I find it criminal that people store their sodium chlorite (a.k.a. table salt) in simple paper containers in their houses!
The more heat you safely dissipate, the less the damage to the surrounding area. The car's a write-off, but with enough water you can save the asphalt, adjacent vehicles and building frontage.
Now, since all charging plugs are standardised. And the only thing letting the vehicle know that the correct plug is inserted and initialising the charging is a stadardised resistor (220 Ohm?) Wouldn't we get the same result as with inserting a EVSE plug that had the cable cut off it? For much cheaper but without fancy LEDs?
We have the same thing being sold to Fire Dpts in Poland and I just wondered about this.
Just the plug is missing a 12V / 5V Power Source from the Charger side for communication.
@@unitrader403 I checked the cut-off plug (with the internal 220Ohm resistor) on a Mach-E. It did put the vehicle in Park. Don't know about other makes, bit I suspect it's a standard. I doubt You need a 12V on the plug side.
The plug is being "discovered" by the vehicle based just.on the resistor in the plug and based just on that puts the vehicle in Park and only the ln tries to check for comms. Seems like snake-oil to me..
But if it's too simple, then you don't get all the fancy color changing lights in a nice yellow handle! 😆 (/sarcasm)
@@fitybux4664 That's what it seems like
A Tesla, and maybe other EVs, have a "fireman's switch" under the hood (bonnet) to disable the car. Of course this tool is easier to use, but there's another way to skin the cat.
Good idea... but what happens when some random ahole walks up to your car and hits this switch?
@@phtofl That random dude must break open your hood and cut the first responders loop.
maybe the hood is so misformed that you can not open it.
Or you want to force the EV into park, before opening the hood.
(e.g. driver unconscious on the wheel)
you only need an unplugged portable charger to do this.
Is the high voltage connection energized between the Charge Controller and the Charge Port when the device plugs in? Normally that section of cable is not energized unless plugged in for charging.
i really don't think it powers anything down. i think this device just stops the vehicle from rolling.
@@Mike-Minion When you connect to the charge port at some point the communication tells the car to energize that portion of the cable. Would be curious if this happens with this device. The scenarios the responders might use this on might make that answer relevant.
Only in DC Fast Charging mode. In standard AC charging mode the on-board charger waits for AC on the charging connector.
However it will activate the traction battery contactor(s), putting high voltage traction power on wiring that might have previously been de-energized. In the rare case that this device does something, it has a good chance of creating more danger rather than less.
@@1djbecker so what mode does this device put the charging system into.
@@motofunk1 I see no reason for it to engage the DC charging mode. That one required a really complex communication using a powerline IP connection (CCS) or CAN bus connection (Tesla). AC only required a diode, a resistor and a dumb 10 kHz PWM signal (about 30 cents in parts).
Could you slow down I can’t stick the tool in the hole. Guy having seizures driving 70 down the highway.
People having seizures usually pull over and Tesla can actually help with this if AP/EAP/FSD are engaged.
"Slow down, I'm trying to get it in the hole"
woo woo woo !!! need more location shoots !!! corey and sandy when we can get an updated giga texas tour !!! :) :):) great work guys ...
There have been a lot of “it’s useless” comments here. Consider this. The vehicle is in an accident, it’s still in drive, the driver is either pinned or unconscious, or both, and his foot is still near or on the accelerator. One wrong move trying to extricate…
If it's been in an accident, the accelerometers (that trigger the airbags) would have already detected a crash and the car would already be disabled. This yellow plastic device is just an expensive trinket that basically does nothing useful.
"Get the banana"
But in haste. Looks neat.
it would be nice to have an option that rapidly discharges the battery in case of a fire, but thats a lot of energy...
I love to see new innovative safety technology in the EV space and I think this is one of them, thanks Monroe live
That POOR Lightning! That was painful to hear it engage park so harshly.
So how does this work? The pilot signal is ONE way. The car senses the voltage level based on a resistor divider. Obviously, there’s no 120/240V in the safety plug. Is there a pilot signal that denotes “safe mode” in the J1772 spec?
Do all vehicles prevent driving just from being plugged into a dead charging connector?
the pilot signal is resistive. it does not need electricity to work, just a few resisitors. and yes, by law all cars will not work with anything plugged in.
There are batteries in the gizmo, and the pilot signal is some low-voltage DC level (can't remember if it's 5 or 12)
The guy said the Lightning set a charging fault because there was no voltage, but there has to be some level of amps/volts being sent otherwise the vehicle wouldn't react at all. This is to prevent people from driving off with it plugged in - you know like you have seen on those memes with gas pump handles hanging off cars.
Needs 6v and can also get the resistive required amp, the key here is this device will be primed ready and can read back if doing the connection correctly, great invention.
@@levenkay4468 It's 9-12V, alternating positive and negative to minimize corrosion in wet conditions (dropping the charging handle in a puddle).
It's absolute trivial to generate. The microcontroller can even drive a voltage multiplier to save a few cents in components, although I'm sure that the parts cost is a trivial fraction of the price.
Seems like they should be working on an "emergency mode" with the manufacturers, activated by this thing instead of just spoofing the charger. Still a great idea!
"Sounds expensive." Yup. Jamming the transmission in park without using the brake is a quick path toward having metallic flecks in the fluid. The tool looks more destructive than helpful. It could prevent fleeing but that's hardly the norm while you have access to the charge port -- those intending to flee don't sit still.
Not one of these vehicles even has a transmission. So "jamming the transmission in park" is actually just applying a brake.
As for the tool itself, no it serves no useful purpose. This is just a sales pitch for a useless and potentially dangerous tool.
@@Green__one good to know, but it still sounds expensive (and not like a brake.)
Thanks to Munroe Live, Paul and the Southfield Fire Department for sharing to disable an EV and provide First Responder assistance as needed.
Charly Manson doesn't even know if it should be flashing green and Solid green! .. And he is charging good money for providing training up and down to the bottom of a great lake :)
This would be good for police stops also.
Just deactivating the drivetrain output, right? All power to interior, computing all on still.
The real breakthrough would be to have a way to shut down all power access from battery without opening access ports and pulling pack fusing. Probably need at least CAN bus access and a universally available ‘emergency power-down command’ in the vehicle command set.
You can do that by severing the appropriate cable - it's put in a convenient place for this reason. Down-side is that doing so will severely damage the car. Fine if it's a wreck, but if you ruin a perfectly good car so you can get someone into a stretcher safely it might expose the department to legal risk. And bad PR.
Seems like you'd want something that de-energizes the whole drive/battery system and I don't /think/ this does that. I've heard a lot about first responders worrying about the high voltage current risks from a live electric car. I haven't heard any concerns about the car driving off from an accident scene - no more so than a gas-engine vehicle at least.
Cool device!
I laughed when the guy showed the plug that fits 'most EVs in the US' then showed the adapter to connect to a tesla. lol I think they got that backward
"Most models", fanboy
Should they get rid of the idea of a structural battery pack, so it can be removed or disassembled in a fire, so the fire doesn't spread to the entire battery?
They show firefighters using it but it’s the cops that’s gonna be using them most I bet
The fire departments need to have the necessary power tools to get quick access to trapped occupant/s
It doesn't address much, but it's a start.
Very informative video. This device could be dangerous in the hands of criminals.
How would it be dangerous?
the charge port canot be opened when vehicle is locked. any charge cable plunged into an open charge port disables the vehicle. surprised there aren't more robberies at ev chargers since a plugged ev is disabled.
This isn't dangerous to criminals. It's dangerous to any firefighter who thinks this will provide any safety.
This does not de-energize the vehicle, all it does is put it in park, and you can just as easily put the vehicle in park the same way you do on every other car on the road, there's nothing special about EVs here.
If you need to work on an EV you cut the firefighter cut loop, you don't just put it in park.
The charge port can be pried open quickly and easily by force. Hijackers can then disable the vehicle and pursue the hijacking of the vehicle. Just a thought.
@@davidck1 which makes it completely useless. Emergency personnel have many decades of experience safely putting vehicles in park. There is absolutely nothing EV specific in that process. The only EV specific part is cutting power, and arguably that's not even any different than the way emergency personnel are already trained to disconnect the 12v battery on internal combustion vehicles.
Police will now pull you over, flip up the door and stick this device in, disabling your car. "For your safety" of course...
Maybe, but even if they didn't have the device, driving away from a police stop probably isn't the best idea: They have your plates already. It'll feel really good in the moment, until you get the letter summoning you to court.
@@vylbird8014 Who said anything about driving away? Crazy people may shoot the cops or detonate a bomb too.
If only the cars were smart enough to engage the service brakes instead of hammering the parking pall harder than a coked up bison
Um, "Most [electric] vehicles in the US" are Teslas. So why would you need an adapter for a tesla car. You should need an adaptor for other cars!
"Most models", fanboy
Because the Tesla connector is smaller, and it would be mechanically unstable to go from a small connector to a larger one? 😆 Wait, no, it's just a conspiracy against Tesla drivers! Yeah, that's it!