Enjoy 10% OFF on all Hoverpens and free shipping to most countries with code ANDREWLAM ►► North America & Other Countries: bit.ly/andrew_novium ►► UK & Europe: bit.ly/andrew_noviumeu - - - - GUIDE TO 8TH GENERATION SMOKE ALARMS I've put together a guide to help you get the best alarms, improve your installation for better safety, and I've included my sources / research behind this video. ►► andrewlam.net/the-best-smoke-alarms-most-people-dont-know-about
11:45 wait you said faster ionization detection for open flames and faster photo electric detection for smoldering... don't you mean the exact opposite? EDIT: also you mentioned only three companies have 8th generation smoke alarms... There is more that three companies that have 8th gen earlier than may 2024...
Thank you Andrew for another excellent video. I currently have both types of detectors in my home; interconnected ionization detectors and individual photoelectric CO2/smoke detectors. After watching this video, I’ll be supplementing them with at least two 8th gen UL 217 interconnected CO2/smoke alarms, one on each floor, as soon as I possible. (Making a stop today at my local ACE hardware store) This is perhaps one of the most valuable and informative videos on YT. Thank you again for all the time and careful research you put into each video.
@@InconsistentManner am kinda confused as well, he was recomending at the end the 8th gen ionization alamrs and in the links he put were to photoelectric sensor alarms
My smoke detector goes off when i get out of the shower. But grandpa leaves an empty pan on high, fills the house with smoke. Yet the damn alarm didn't go off until we could barely breathe in the living room.
@@henryprice9493(why do people say blud- Anyway try to go to a hardware store like lowe’s or home depot and search for smoke alarms that have a carbon monoxide and smoke detection. (Make sure they say PHOTOELETRIC on the packaging. You can choose first alert or kiddie brands. dosent matter but anyway,Hope this helps)
Optical (photo electric) alarms have been the praise in Norway for decades now. You have to try really hard to find an ionizing smoke detector at any place that sells smoke alarms
Yeah, in most places they are the standard not only for safety but because you don't need to put radiation into the landfill (although they are supposed to be properly recycled)
@@Lam Where i live you can easily get the dual version (Ionisation and photoelectric). And even the tripple version with additional Carbon Monoxide detection. Personally that is the best option.
@@Quidisi CO mixes with air. It will detect a little bit faster when you put it on the floor, but we are not talking about a time saving that would save your life. If there is a wood stove in your house, put a CO detector close to it and low to the floor as you want to detect CO fast and even in small amounts. But as a regular detector in your living room it doesn't really matter (or so i've been told by fire technicians). So to answer your question, put it on the ceiling like always.
A few years back I had hardwired smoke alarms from the mid 1980s. I kept them because they still worked. That is, until one day I was using a staple gun on a wall that had one and the vibration must have caused something inside the smoke alarm to fail. The smoke alarm caught fire, then alerted me that it was on fire lol. I took the rest of the hardwired alarms out that day. I'm still amazed to this day that a smoke alarm can still work after 30 years, catch fire, and still alert you that it's on fire.
Was the thing mains powered or how did it start burning? (Mains lines often fail by fire before smoke reaches the alarm.) Those dread unreplaceable 10 years lithium batteries are highly flammable and certain such smoke alarms did set houses on fire (which may be triggered by even triggered by a firmware backdoor to eliminate politically unwanted people and their documents). So I solely use non-wireless photoelectric smoke alarms with harmless alkaline 9V battery.
My childhood hero and mentor was a nuclear physicist who was involved in the development of ionization alarms. I keep kicking myself for not becoming aware of the seriousness of the issue while he was still alive. That would have been an awesomely insightful discussion.
It still kinda blows my mind that you went from dashcam videos (which were good, they are why I bought my dashcam, and how I found you) to these absolutely awesome videos! I hope the algorithm pushes your videos like it should. Your channel could easily blow up. I hope it does. Keep up the good work!
Thanks a bunch, I still can't believe I made the transition either but I'm glad I did. I finally have a formula and a direction for where I want this channel to go. Now I can add speed.
@@Lam Exactly. Checking your videos I can see 1 video a year 4 years in a row. The videos are very nice. I bet you could live out of YT if there was more posts.
Haha remember another UA-camr who was reviewing dashcams and spycams 10-11 years ago. And weird motorcycles. But has been doing retro audio things since.
I am a fire alarm technician, the ionization detectors aren't even legal over 3,000ft above sea level, yet all the home improvement stores sell them at 7,000ft
Many home improvement stores here in Massachusetts, where fire/smoke/CO/natural gas and propane alarm regulations are very strict, sell non-compliant detector products that fail to pass fire code inspections. Our code even requires all batteries to be 10-year rated, sealed and non-replaceable. I’m waiting any moment for the new 8th gen minimum requirements to be phased into effect immediately now that I just upgraded my entire system…for the 3rd time. This is getting expensive but still cheaper than a household of funerals and property in ruins!
@@randomno0 current national fire code requires household smoke detectors be replaced every decade, namely due to the use of ionization detectors, which degrade due to the reduction in Americium. I have seen some detectors last 30 years without issue, but, eventually, even the electronics degrade
Of the fatal house fires I learn of locally, almost all of them have no working smoke detectors with about half of those having none at all. In over half of the 'non-working' cases, it was battery powered and the resident apparently removed the battery. In many other cases the battery was dead. To alleviate the intentional disarming and problems with dead batteries, newer building codes require interconnected grid-powered units with battery back-up, yet you get the same problem as people now simply remove or unplug the units. It is paramount that safety devices of all kinds preclude false alarms or people will find a way to disable them. There is a flaw in the photoelectric or optical detectors: they will alert over airborne dust as quickly as they do smoke. Based on where their sensitivity level is set, that can be an almost imperceptible amount of dust. I hope these new detectors can discriminate against that. And here's a closing thought: Christmas may be a long way off, but for those you know who have defeated their detectors now you know the perfect present for them, and one which shows how deeply you care.
Yeah, those were a HUGE reason why people died. Hopefully with 10-year batteries and reduced false alarms that will stop being such a big problem. Optical detectors are suspectable to dust, vacuuming is recommended and almost all newer designs have dust/ bug (spiders) to reduce that issue
Yeah, exactly that, it's an awareness and effort thing. Many people also think fires happen to other people which is why we have building codes and voluntary codes like UL 217
The best way to ensure that people dont unplug them or remove the battery, is to make sure they dont trigger when there is no danger. For example, my current fire alarm is of an older type, and if I do not turn on the stove fan, it will immidiately trigger for something as little as a pancake even if the pancake is not burnt at all and i cant see the smoke. If i forget to turn on the bathroom fan, the smoke alarm in my house will also trigger from the STEAM when I shower, which imo, is worse. Imagine you are showering and it triggers the alarm in the hallway of your home and you live alone. You have no choice but to walk out of your shower. Most people who unplug or disable their alarm would do so out of annoyance from their alarm going off when there is obviously no fire. And regarding the comment above, a cancel button of the fire alarm would also be helpful. Perhaps a button to silence it for the next 5 minutes. This might encourage the people who would completely unplug or remove the battery when it gets a false alarm, to just push the button instead. While it does mean 5 minutes without fire detection, that is much better than potentially forever without it.
He did! I enjoyed his take on the topic! This video has been on my mind years ago since I last did the apartment fire safety video. I thought it was a good time now that the 8th gen requirements are being rolled out.
For sure, I did watch his video! In fact I borrowed his idea of cutting in half my alarms. I actually bought the same photoelectric alarm he was using just to cut it apart as it was so much easier to animate and illustrate compared to first alert models. There was also stuff he covered like dual sensor alarms I skipped. I like his conversational style and his dry humor 😄
my dad's life was saved by a smoke alarm that woke him up in the middle of the night. firefighters said that if he was a minute slower to escape he would have been trapped by the flames. having a good smoke detector is important to me so thanks for the video.
yeah sadly those days are behind him with modern fire alarms being in capable of detecting smoke from an actual fire these days sadly😭😭 which is why first off if your buying a fire alarm make sure it goes off from actual smoke because your trusting it with your life you want to know it works as required
New viewer here. Great video. Thank you. Back in 2018 my refrigerator power cord was pinched, causing a smoldering fire in the kitchen while I was at work. I had left an exhaust fan in one of the bathrooms going, and a passerby saw it and called the FD. No one heard any smoke alarms going. Glad I wasn't there, asleep.
Have both optical (photo electric) and ionizing smoke detectors, CO and natural gas detectors, co2 and ABC extinguishers installed on every floor in my house, we have an escape plan, was in a building fire when I was a teenager, was a volunteer firefighter in my 20s. Thanks for the testing
@@Warp3326I wouldn't call it "super high". They go off when the level is approaching being a threat to human health. Iirc, they are usually set to alert at 30-40ppm CO. The detectors hvac techs use measure from 0, because the equipment they're servicing shouldn't allow any CO into the home, and they need to know if it does. There are other things in a home that can produce small amounts of CO that aren't particularly harmful, such as gas stoves/ovens, certain types of cooking, candles, etc. If CO alarms were more sensitive, they would give false alarms that would eventually lead people to remove or disable them.
Hi Flash my previous Former business consultant is on the UL 217 committee he a actually went to Australia to say ionization alarms are dangerous in smoldering fires a d e en help get a photo electriconly mandate in his home state!
We once moved into a house where the previous owner smoked. One day, a smoke alarm fell on the floor and the smell of the carpet set it off.😂 It took us over a month of running all the ceiling fans nonstop at full power with all the windows open to get the smell out.
You should buy ozone generator next time. Due to the nature of ozone, it likes to move the extra oxygen to anything (that's why it's toxic to living things). It turns other things (in this case stuff that makes smell) to gas that goes away.
As a former extinguisher tech, we had to throw out so many kidde extinguisher because they would fail their tests and couldn't be recharged. In my experience Badger was the most reliable brand.
God, my time at job corps was sooo annoying with the optical alarms.. People getting up early morning and taking hot showers, the vapor was enough to set it off. I would angrily state these aren't smoke detectors, they're particle detectors. I'm glad to see this issue is being dealt with.
I mean, the older-gen ionization alarms ARE extremely annoying, but they've also saved my ass quite a few times because I live with roommates and have an electric coil stove and very little counter space. Roommate throws on a pot of water for Mac-n-Cheese, turns on the back burner instead of the front, tupperware catches on fire while I'm in my room with the door (right next to the stove) shut and they're in the living room watching TV or something. This happens about every 6 months or so but the detectors ALWAYS catch it within seconds of it flashing off, we just have to remember to open the kitchen door before anyone opens the oven otherwise everyone runs around to find some kinda pokey-stick-object to turn the alarm off. Hell, it ALMOST happened with a skillet full of bacon grease on the back burner LITERALLY LAST NIGHT, I just smelled it before it caught fire cause my door was open.
The photoelectric ones suck in deserts that experience dust storms. As an Electrician while serving in Kuwait and Iraq -every time we had dust storms they would set the alarms off and this would shut down the central A/C on systems that were connected. It made many people upset that not only was sand and dust everywhere you’d also be sweating even more in the desert heat. They would get dusty over time also which sets them off (the LED reflects off the dust particles coating the inside). You couldn’t just blow them clean with a can of compressed air/CO2 either. Opening them up and washing the little black plastic removable cover and cleaning the detector lens with a Q- tip works but opening them at all often voids any warranty on individual devices and complete alarm systems (don’t do this, It’s better to be safe than sorry). So, we would just replace the entire detector and throw away the dirty/malfunctioning old one. I prefer a combination Universal Security Instruments 10 Year Sealed, Battery Operated, Dual Sensing 2-In-1 Kitchen Smoke and Fire Detector, Microprocessor Intelligence detector in my home with the 10 year lithium ion battery. Steamy showers still set it off though. 😂 This is not an advertisement it’s what I actually use, I ordered them from a home improvement store they are pricey but life is priceless.
MQShawGravity, the usi model you have most likely has ONLY an ionization sensor alone. They pair that single sensor with a cpu to process the data and then call it a dual sensor equivalent. But it’s not using a photoelectric sensor and therefore I wouldn’t trust it.
@@MQShawGravity ok fair point. You must have a different model than I have. The one I’m describing is either called iophic or universal smoke sensing technology. What makes you think I’m a bot? I’m definitely a real person.
HI Niel did you know that Mr. Butler has state that an iophic is consider an ionization type and Iophic alarms have been found to cause death ? in other news did you know the cdc came out with a report that says 10 year alarms dont last 10 years ?
@@Fredengle You’re supposed to test them monthly and look for the flashing LED. Who cares if it doesn’t last an entire 10 years? I’m not putting a stinking 9 volt battery in it every month when it starts beeping.
the problem is some jurisdicition have idiots in charge and require 10 year alarms that means the only option to be legally to compliant is to replace one defective alarm with another AND also ionization alarms are less money some one might by an ionization alarm and not realize a photo electric is safer and that could cause a problem do you not realize the cpsc has over 32 years of lawsuits of ionization failures but I am willing to bet you 25.00 that any fire litigiation attoroeny you ask will not say they have a lawsuits where a photo electirc alarm has been blamed for a death because it has been argued that 100% of all lawsuits are agasint ionization technology who care well some one might by an in expensive ion 10 year alarm than is a problem one problem with requiring 10 year alarms is if people dont know there could be problems did you know they it has been scientifically proven they type of smoke alarms you use can make the diffrence between life and death! who cares you say thats not a good way of viewing the info even the battery manfs experessed their concerens these alarms dont work well and who cares you say did you know that some fire departments are bussineess partners of manfs ? you dont know if they dont require defective alarm so they can make more money who cares requireing 10 year alarms raises the price of alarms to about 40-50 dollars a photo electric alarm the type you should have in your home can be made for about 5.00 and sold for about 30- requiring 10 year alarms that are more expensive could if some one want to be complaint reduce the amount of availble alarms available did not thing of that did you ?
Here in our Australian home. We have both alarms. One of them goes off about half the time whenever I use the oven. It's so annoying! But I also understood why it behaves like that. We might have a look at the availability of the 8th gen alarms here soon!
You might try moving it. It could be that the way the air circulates in your house the air from the oven gets to the detector too quickly before it has had a chance to disperse.
@@jayytee8062 The standard has been updated (AS3786:2023) but on a cursory search it looks like it may not have taken the USA approach of raising minimum standards for individual alarms. What it does do is allow sale of multi-detectors (e.g. CO2 and smoke) and dual sensor (ionization and photoelectric). Also requires alarms to support interconnect (all alarms sound together). This is not yet a requirement in Victoria but it is in some states, at least for rental properties. In Victoria smoke detectors are only required outside bedrooms between the bedroom and the rest of the house which would have been ok for non-smokers but how many people now charge phones in their bedroom overnight? No way I'd sleep in a room with a Li-ion battery on charge and no smoke detector!
Hey, great on you to check which alarm you have! Unfortunately outside of America 8th / 9th gen alarm don't exist. However the technology might be in your current alarms already. I would get a photoelectric alarm for sure. I forgot which independent testing organization released info for Australia but it exists as I was looking at their recommendations during my research for this video.
You're not supposed to put smoke alarms right next to the kitchen. Also, CO detectors are far more sensitive and won't be triggered by some atomized grease or water vapor when you get out of the shower.
I went down this rabbit hole a few years ago, everyone I talk to doesn't even check if there alarm still works or has batteries 😢. Thank you for spreading a bit more knowledge about this, if it saves one person it's worth it
Yeah, it's a real shame, but hopefully with 10-year batteries being mandated in a lot of jurisdictions, and these nuisance alarms being solved, that fire safety will be improved
@@Lam That trains us that we never have to change the batteries, since 10 years is almost forever. Except that it isn't forever. So, aren't we just going to have a lot of broken useless plastic in 10 years? If we'd wire them to the mains and use a capacitor for backup, it could last 50 years, I'd think.
So technically you could replace the lithium battery inside with a like and kind model. However, the 10 years is to really guard against electronic failure and degradation. I can't remember if that number is overly conservative, but for critical safety equipment, as well as advances in detection, 10 years is pretty good
@@Lam And doesn't 10 years train us to never check them? I check mine. But maybe if many people never check them to begin with, having the prior owner or landlord put in 10-year models would be an improvement... ?
Former private Fire Inspector here. I would alarm smoke detectors via smoke at schools, hospitals, courthouses, etc. There are some dangerous systems you shouldn't trust your life on. In my experience; Johnson Controls (JCI) has pull-stations that, at one medical center, failed to operate an alarming amount of the time. Fike alarms are among the worst; it takes an insane amount of smoke to set off.
@@Senpai_Lily Interesting I worked at Siemens as a fire alarm system installer and always seen the Siemens fire alarms as way more advanced than other on the market since they have external temperature sensors and IR fire detecting sensors in addition to the photoelectric smoke detectors. Why didn't you like Siemens? The high maintenance cost?
@Atom224 On my end, I was always the one testing them, so we didn't like them because the fire panels were not as advanced & convenient to use as say, an Edwards. And when it comes to fire testing, you'll be spending a lot of time at that panel. Another big thing is that siemens smoke detectors took a while to set off. It wasn't nearly as bad as Fike when it came to the smoke detectors but we did have difficulties with them
I bought both types of detectors for each location in my home when I moved into my house 4 years ago. All from Kidde and I have had multiple failures. Going off continuously at night for literally no reason, waking my young daughter up and traumatizing her as well as 10 year batteries that failed way early, and many false alarms. So I would not recommend going with Kidde products despite the enticing 9th gen marketing you mentioned in the description (I also think they declared bankruptcy). I will probably look at swapping out for the first alert. Really cool video!
Thanks for the story Jay! Yeah that sounds annoying, sometimes though that can be because of dust buildup. It's good to vacuum / compress air blow your alarms.
@jaybee1570 if you're receiving replies, I had similar issues with a Kiddie waking me in the middle of the night, after less than one year of owning it - the battery was supposed to last far longer than that. I do not know which brand is best, but I can tell you that I replaced it with an X-sense that detects both smoke and carbon monoxide, and it was the best of the options available. I still think every alarm on the market has major flaws (I outlined those in a long rant in response to someone else's comment). It has been installed in the bedroom for over a year and has not had any false alarms or low battery warnings thus far. So, I suggest getting an alarm for both smoke and carbon monoxide, and can say that X-sense has not caused any problems for me.
Kidde is Walmart-grade in everything they sell. Their fire extinguishers were subject to a massive recall not long ago. I would not trust a single Kidde product with my life. I think most of their customers want peace of mind without any expectation they'll ever use it, which is worth jack squat.
I swear smoke alarms from 15 years ago were far more likely to detect cooking than now. I was going to get to the bottom of this on my own but this video exceeds what I wanted.
Some years ago some knob head took a faulty microwave oven to our workshop saying "it did not heat" as I wanted to make a quick toilet visit for a leak, So I put it on the bench, put a cup of water [for standard test], pushed in two minutes, and quickly made it to the toilet, when I returned the workshop, it was filled with smoke, but the Ionization smoke alarm had not gone off, when we took the smoke alarm outside, it worked fine with burning paper under it, as for the microwave, the owner had taken out a blown 8 Amp fuse and put in a 30 Amp car fuse, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Just before the French revolution for some strange reason back in the 18th century, François-Marie Arouet Voltaire (1694-1778) a French Enlightenment writer, historian and philosopher said; “If there’s life on other planets, then the earth is the Universe’s insane asylum.” [edit: few corrections]
"as for the microwave, the owner had taken out a blown 8 Amp fuse and put in a 30 Amp car fuse, " I literally cannot state just HOW stupid this owner was. I literally cannot find the words; every time i try, my language center has an apoplexy, and that apoplexy has its OWN apoplexy. You NEVER, EVER, under ANY CIRCUMSTANCES, replace a fuse with one of a higher rating, ***EVER!!!!!*** I would only allow an exception if the equipment is required to keep operating to sustain the life of your FAVORITE parent/child.
@@andrewdreasler428 Yeah, that's almost as dumb switching on a piece of electrical equipment and leaving it unattended when the only thing you know about it is "something ain't right."
Its nice to see they finally implemented algorithms and deep microprocessor analysing. Dual sensor units have been around for decades (FIrst Alert/BRK SA301A/B/C is the one I am most familiar with), but those were basically just threshold based and almost literally two units on the same circuit board. Waveform/time is a great way to analyse, backed with all the data gathered from testing. Great to see this!
Should have quad sensor systems. Passive IR, ionization, photoelectric and CO. An RK3588S based single board computer should be in every detector. They have an integrated NPU. As far as machine learning goes, it would be a very simple undertaking by current standards. Self-driving cars is a problem that is a billion times more complex and they're working on that. The only drawback is, in order to make the system as effective as possible, you're gonna have to light a whole lot of fires to train the system. But once it is done, it is just a simple copy and paste and over the sale of billions of devices, they'll make a massive profit on the job, not to mention saving countless lives. With enough research and training, a multi point setup such as you'd find in a hospital could actually predict how the fire will progress and intelligently direct people which way to run.
The quality in your videos is simply amazing! It's insane how you can make such a captivating video about smoke alarms of all things. This video was super informative and enjoyable. Hope to see more from you!
You missed a type of fire alarm! We've still got the wind-up ones with a temp rated disk that snaps into the front of the alarm! The disk warps at 120 degrees and lets a wind up bell sound.
And a huge number of deaths due to smoke inhalation because the alarm never went off because it didn't get hot enough close to the alarm. Most 'fire deaths' are smoke inhalation, not burning up. My aunt died in her bedroom when her TV burned in her livingroom yet the fire never burned anything but around the TV, the couch and things facing the TV were scorched but didn't catch fire.
My sister once opened a garage door near a smoke alarm on a humid day. That humidity rushed in and sat off the smoke alarm. Of course hers do seem like those annoying ones that could go off at any moment when you cook anything. Worst of all they are all connected to each other so when one goes off you get a horrible cacophony of alarm sounds!
It's surreal to see a video that shows me something I've known about for over a decade. I remember being a relatively young teenager and going to a free lunch for elderly citizens sponsored by the fire department, to educate older people on the importance of having the right kind of fire detectors. I went with my grandparents, and saw basically the same sort of research shown in this video. They recommended a classical fire alarm that was physically wound up, and had a plastic/wax stopper that melted at a specific temperature. I wonder how those types of alarms perform against the modern battery of tests in a wide range of different types of fires. This was at least over 15 years ago, so I'd be interested in how those types of alarms hold up against modern testing standards.
yeah so all it does is reinforce your ideas which keep you alive making sure the fire alarm goes off from smoke not other crap because fires emit smoke plain and simple
There seems to be an Error at 11:45 with the Naming of the Graphs on the Left Side. Seems like "Photoelectric" and "Ionization" are mixed up. Edit: Same thing at 13:45.
It's not, so the chart shows how much escape time it gives you, not how long it takes for the alarm to go off. Yes it's a little confusing, one of the testers told me about it but I didn't find a good way to express that official finding.
@@Lam I found it clear enough in your labeling it as "escape time". However there are many people who are seemingly averse to reading these days, and a graph or chart will be what they focus on so they might miss it.
@@P_RO_ it's definitely counterintuitive. The whole time everything was about how quickly each type can detect the smoke/fire. The obvious choice would have been detection speed comparison not escape time which is the reverse of that.
@@szacsesz It is a question of perspective. I didn't enter closed-minded into a learning environment with expectations of how the info was going to be presented.
As a retired electrician, I always used at least 1 optical smoke detector, mainly in the room closet to the kitchen. I always put detectors in all bedrooms and hallways. One of the biggest things is placement, they need air flow. Not too close to the ceiling or in a corner. Always read the directions.
Cool. And I would like to note that I just change somebody smoke alarm that was still functioning but the beeping was not. So definitely check to make sure it actually beeps when you press the test button and it's not super silent.
I have heard some people are against what I am going to call "Smart Sensors" in the 8th generation Ionization Sensors. The reason being that computer algorithms are not perfect, and if it is able to figure out if it is cooking smoke, on not trigger the alarm, then it could think it is cooking smoke, and not trigger the alarm, even if it is a real fire. This also makes no difference that ionization sensors still don't work at all with very thick smoke.
Important: Use only Photoelectric type smokes alarms. Ionization have been proven way too slow to respond to fires. Details: Ionization sensors react faster to flaming fires, but only marginally (1 minute). However, photoelectric sensors detect smoldering fires (the most common type) 15 to 50 minutes faster! Note: Combination Photoelectric / Ionization detectors can be good but there is an issue. Some models require both sensors to agree (dangerous) while others will alarm when only one senses smoke. For example, I think (but have not verified) that First Alert will sound an alarm if just one sensor detects smoke. For this reason, I recommend only Photoelectric smoke detectors.
Capt-intrepid your comment about the 15 to 50 minutes faster is misleading. Many times the ionization alarm will not sound at all. But the photoelectric alarm will sound with plenty of time to escape. How do you compare these two times? Short time vs never. Is that infinitely faster? Basically I’m saying that the 15 to 50 claim is underselling the benefits. It’s better to say it works vs the other one doesn’t work.
Whenever a smoke alarm in my house stops working, it would usually make a calm beeping sound that only happens around once a minute since it’s kind of hard to find the specific batteries have a bunch of first alert, alarms that we would replace the old ones with overtime
4:38 cigarettes in USA were reformulated in 2006 to not stay lit for very long w/o puffing on it. That change to the tobacco, along with the reduction in cigarette smoking, pretty much eliminated fires caused by smokers who fall asleep with lit cigs.
I've been a fire investigator for over 26 years. While we see fewer smoking fires, I believe that the biggest reason for that is that a smaller percentage of our populations smokes. The "fire safe" cigarettes are not all that safe. I have personally started many training fires using them. We have conducted tests that have shown that the bands that are supposed to extinguish the cigarette when nobody is drawing on the it anymore commonly failed to do so. It's not a rare occurrence by any means.
@@keppscrossing another aspect could be that people who do smoke don't smoke indoors (at least, not as much), as most leases nowadays prohibit it (public places prohibit it as well, but most cigarette fires are house/apartment fires).
I'm going to buy some of the fancier smoke detectors you recommended! As a renter, I found nearly every apartment ive been in has expired detectors (>20 year old ones common on the east coast). Now in addition to smart lights, I'll be moving between rentals with smart detectors. Keep up the great videos, Andrew
In Seattle my apartment building just replaced all the smoke/CO detectors after 10 years. The Seattle fire department also comes by I believe once a year or every 2 years and inspects each apartment as well as the entire premises.
I'm a PE that deals with commercial construction. For decades, the standard smoke detector for a fire alarm system has been photoelectric, with dual technology being a common requirement. So, if you live in a modern apartment building, you likely already benefit from that. Also, when you talk about the history of smoke alarms and mention early models that used thermometers, that's _technically_ a heat detector. And that's something we still use today. In fact, most commercial buildings have heat detectors in certain areas where it's more likely heat would build up before smoke.
My housing company provided a very basic, simplistic optical one, fine but combined with the kitchen connecting to the hallway where it sat, without a door... Damn thing would have a panic attack if you boiled some water in the kettle for coffee, never mind cook. Replaced it with my own heat-sense based fire alarm for kitchens and added a monoxide alarm for an additional sense. Can't live with one that goes off needlessly 5 times a day, that also just desensitizes you to the alarm going off (boy who cried wolf.) so you'll probably not rush that 1 time it isn't a false alarm after a 100 false ones.
Photodetector alarms are recommended for kitchens to alleviate that false alarm problem. Ionization or combined for everywhere else. Of course, "kitchen" means wherever kitchen fumes actually end up going, which isn't always just the kitchen.
@@travcollier Also forgot to mention the optical one they placed here would just seemingly randomly go off without kitchen activities as well. Probably was factory-defective. Or maybe tiny flies, I have some plants that need moist soil at all times. So in summer there are always a few coffin flies around. Might have been flying into the sensor compartment? I did try to go through the housing company to get it replaced but they seemed somewhat unaware what they installed here and that it's a not-for-the-tennant-to-touch/maintain alarm system. Did not manage to get someone on the phone who knew anything about it. :| I'll look into the "8th gen" alarms mentioned in the video. I'm content with the thermal kitchen and monoxide detectors for any fires or monoxide leak that might start in the kitchen or the heating system. Still want a separate one more smoke sensitive in the bedroom and living room for e.g a smolder starting there. That would cause a lot of smoke before heating up the area around the thermal alarm enough to trigger it. (I'm not in the US, ionizaton type haven't been sold here for ages. But there seems to be something like shitty-optical ones too (unless it was just defective ofc.))
As a direct result of watching this video, I’m replacing 3 smoke detectors that not only use the old ionizing tech, but also (as I discovered when I was checking them) were manufactured in 2002, so are long past due to be replaced anyway. Thanks for bringing this to my attention!
Well, at least you did it! Most people wouldn't even consider doing it. Edit: photoelectric puts you good position, I wouldn't feel the need to upgrade
The contractor installed 8 kidde model 900-CUAR in our new home. Photo electric, hard wired + battery backup. By Month 5: 3 failed by false alarms in the middle of the night, no combustion or dust was happening. Batteries were good. This alarm is JUNK.
I have all photoelectric alarms from Siterwell in my house as smoldering fires are my greatest concern (lots and lots of computer equipment), and they've been pretty good - one time they triggered on a CFL light bulb I'd left switched on while we had a failing transformer outside that was intermittently feeding double the normal voltage to our system. I've also had the occasional false positive from a tiny spider crawling inside one, but occasional air dusting seems to have solved that.
Last place we lived, it took almost no effort cooking to trigger the smoke alarm no where near the kitchen (and the PM2.5 detectors on my air cleaners).. made me paranoid about any smoke from doing soldering.. heh.
I actually have only one single smote detector in my house, one without a battery that just sits on a board in the stairwell. And my house is fully made of wood, as quite common for rural areas of Sweden…
While ionisation alarms can still be bought here in New Zealand. They aren't so common anymore and are not recommended. It is primarily photoelectric now.
what I am wondering is: why don't all cooking ovens/their heating plates come with built in Timers for each plate? You turn on the plate AND set the timer, just in case! Then, if You/Me forgets something, the Timer turns off the plate and the meal isn't completely cooked but this is better than the kitchen or house geting completely "smoked" or worse!!! (which happens all too often)
Because it would annoy the shit out of everyone. A stove with a 5min "dead man" switch... I guess you've never cooked anything more complicated than an egg, or slice of baloney. If you're that forgetful, you shouldn't be allowed to cook without supervision.
I bought two induction cooktops a few years ago, brand Duxtop $70 hobs, and they have timers. Timeout is not the default but you can set it. I looked around and there are not many stoves with this feature for some reason, other than on the oven. I think Thermadore has one. The Duxtops are still working, I think it's been 5 years.
@@jfbeam You are somehow right about my cooking expertise; nevertheless, how many times did my wife, who does the regular cooking, set the kitchen and other rooms full of annoying smoke, fortunately not yet fire. Even my neighgor's wife once fried a stake to black smoldering coke! Btw.: now that the gov is in the know, they should promote selling "Double Tech" smoke detectors, photoelectric + ionization!! And another very annoying point, each new detector comes with different mounting dimensions!!! How many holes do we have to drill over and over again!
Andrew, thanks for working the comments. 👍🏼 So many creators drop and dash. And you never hear from them until the next video. Your dedication is much appreciated❣️
Yeah, appreciate that! I think one of my joys is interacting with everyone watching especially with the supportive community I have. It also helps give me a sense of good or bad what the general vibe is.
You're very welcome! Thanks for mentioning it, sometimes it's hard to know if that effort helps anyone. I'm going to flesh out more of my sources in the next week or so.
I have a smoke alarm that has both types of sensors. Always found that it works WAY better than my older one that caused a lot of false alarms during cooking
Great video! (as former certification engineer) UL standards are based on NFPA 72 (national requirements). The two work together along with industry, fire protection professionals, etc. in developing minimum requirements (emphasis - minimum)
Back in the 80's, I used to work in a building with ionization detectors everywhere. A typical day was five false detections. The usual culprits were detectors that sensed moving air such as those mounted near open windows or that had electric fans pointing toward them. When I moved to another company that installed fire alarms, I recommended photoelectric detectors. No false alarms. In fact, the owners began to wonder "Are these things working?" So we sold smoke detector testing kits or a three- or six-month smoke test service. Then someone came along and tried to get us to sell their multi-sensor detectors. These had photoelectric, ionization, and heat sensors in one unit. Unfortunately, they were much too expensive. I would have loved to test them to see if they still give false detections but we didn't even try them.
What I find most disturbing is, that my smoke detectors tend to detect a low battery only between 2 and 4 AM in the middle of the night... Why can't they have two battery levels: When the battery voltage is below the first level AND when at the same time there is enough light, then and only then sound the "battery low" alarm. (Yes, define "enough light"...). And when the battery voltage is below the second (lower) level, then sound the "battery low" alarm no matter if it's bright or dark in the room (This is just in case it cannot detect enough daylight and the battery level is lower and lower, then it's OK to sound the "battery low" alarm anyways, no matter if you are probably awake or not...) It would be so easy... And so helpful...
@@pizzablender oh yes, imagine it's in another room, you go out the hallway, "where is it"... All right, wait for two minutes in the hallway... Oh I hear it, was it here or there... Not sure... Wait another 2 minutes...
Yeah, I wish they had something like that. The problem is you need a smarter and more expensive alarm that manufacturs don't want to engineer for. I found out during my research that smoke alarms chirp at night, because colder temperatures drop the voltage sounding the warning. When it warms up during the day it goes away. Incredibly frustrating
@@Lam that's interesting, sure, when it gets colder during the night, the battery voltage drops a bit. Sure it does. And when it's already just a tiny bit above the minimum voltage, this could be the trigger...
There is one benefit to heat detectors - they can be used in cold environments! Apparently other types of detectors won't work in environments that are under 5 degrees Celsius. Places like unheated garages, storage units, and the like. I also wonder if photoelectric would work in such environments as well.
Pulled me in. Never heard of this dude. Definitely never consumed anything related to smoke detectors. Only thing close might be chemical safety board videos, but it's been many months. Anyway, showed up on my feed tonight.
Probably not, sounds like you're in the UK because that's a more common system there. Most likely you have photoelectrics and that's going to be more than fine.
Interesting schooling on a subject I had assumed was inconsequential. But I do work on the prevent rather than react. Google most common causes of house fires and look all over your house! Things like lightning you can't do much about but many of the most common causes you can!
At 11:26 and 13:28, are the labels of the bar graphs switched around accidentally? From the audio I expect that 'Ionization' on the left (Smoldering Fire Warning Time) would have the blue 35m 36s bar, and that 'Ionization' on the right (Flaming Fire Warning Time) would have the slightly faster blue 2m 9s bar
Hey Mool, The graph is correct, it's an unusual way of talking about how useful an alarm is. The actual metric is ASET - Available Safe Egress Time, which is how long after the alarm goes off you have to get out before conditions become dangerous. It's a more accurate measure of how useful an alarm is in saving your life. It's also an indirect a measure of how fast each alarm is alarm is. Yes, this is confusing, I thought about different ways to represent the data and this is the simplified version although I should have went with "escape time".
UK is not anymore in the European Union which Hase a lot of life saving norms, which you doesn’t need to follow anymore in the UK. So he meant not the continent but the Union.
Good info. When I moved into this house almost 10 years ago, I changed out all of the alarms as there were 10 years old and discolored. The round and round about ionization and photoelectric back then... Thus, I have some of both with one type also having carbon monoxide detection. It's almost time for new alarms.
Fire code where I live was changed 4-5 years ago to require networked smoke detectors and the new units aren't going off even after burning rice to coal to the point that I can barely see the kitchen wall from across the hallway. Works fine on smoke from burning paper as a test to make sure it is actually able to detect smoke, haven't tried other types of smoke. Previous alarm was an ionizing type that often went off for no apparent reason, even ambient humidity was enough to set it off on exceptionally humid days.
As a former NICET Level IV technician, I learned something today and updated my knowledge. Thank you! My previous answer was _"Why not both?_ Another cause of nuisance alarms in photoelectric detectors is steam, whether from cooking (boiling water) or a good hot shower. And then there is the need for cleaning - little spiders and their microscopic webs are the worst, although drywall dust is a problem for photoelectric devices, as well. carry on!
I'm still wondering what the differences in detection are between the two devices. From the research conducted both types are now improved but is it enough where it's minimal returns on having both types or should we still put in that effort. My response as well to having both is that people should prioritize housewide interconnection first and it's difficult to get both types onto one circuit especially as there's only one dual sensor model because they sell poorly. Steam is a big factor, something I didn't address. I know NEST has split spectrum photoelectric sensors + humidity sensors that are supposed to deal with that better. I haven't seen a test looking at how much better it is. Ideally though most people will install their alarm out of the line of fire.
@@Lam All good points, program compliance is far more important than the nuances. Photoelectrics do require more maintenance (cleaning) and most people aren't up to that. I did not know about the humidity sensor technology, that seems like a great idea especially in a bathroom/bedroom hallway. I am disappointed that SimpliSafe is not keeping up with this. I use their devices as an adjunct to the required wired / interconnected smoke detectors; for the purpose of automatic notification during unoccupied periods. A combination Carbon Monoxide (CO) detector is also not a bad idea.
@@Lam It's kind of amazing the 2nd gen Nest came out in 2015 and is UL 217 compliant. After researching the different types of fires and detectors in 2016, I installed Protects in four locations between 2016 and last year. It's unfortunate Google largely abandoned development of the Nest product line, though.
Glad to see such a great explanation of this and a good breakdown of the differences. There's a reason I have both types of detector in my house, and I didn't just choose where each type was placed at random. The spots more prone to a fast starting, flaming fires have ionization detectors, and the rest are photoelectric.
It baffles me that when I walk into any hardware store and the shelves are still filled with ion detectors... by 2014 most fire alarm companies stopped offering ions... this has been a pain as depending of the system you may need to reprogram your panel to change to a photo... but for over a decade you haven't been able to purchase new Ions for ANY fire alarm system.
@@dmitripogosian5084 Canada. Go to Home Depot, Canadian Tire, Rona, or any other hardware store and the shelves are full of ions... go to any electrical wholesaler and unless you specifically order a photo you get an ion...
What sucks is you have to do all the work at the order desk... if you say you want a photoelectric they have no idea and will insist all they have are ions... which may be true as even wholesalers like ADI only stock ions and you need to order in photos
Consequently I have had to replace alarms installed new in apartments that are only a few years old due to constant nuisance alarms as modern layouts force smoke alarms to practically be in the kitchen
Electrician here. A popular local brand of smoke alarms has recently changed their flagship combo alarm (smoke and Co) to have photo electric technology instead of ionization technology. Most other combo alarms I work with have ionization technology.
It's also worth mentioning that the recommended pitch for smoke alarms has changed. Turns out the super high frequency alarm (3150 Hz) is no good at waking people with hearing loss (most adults over 50), and not great at waking children. They were designed to be annoying, both to wake you and encourage you to actually leave. They also are _incredibly_ painful to anyone with audio sensitivity. The new standard post 2010, required for any dwelling where people with hearing loss might sleep ( and recommended for _everyone_ ), is a 520 Hz alarm. While I don't believe the standard requires it, the manufacturers making them have mostly gone with sawtooth alarms rather than sine-wave. This maximizes the ability to wake people. Unfortunately, alarms are often not clearly labeled, even sometimes having the same model number between the high and low frequency alarms. First Alert's talking photoelectric alarm is 520 Hz, and tends to be my preferred choice. It's photoelectric, so works well on visible smoke. The sawtooth wave reliably wakes you at night. And the talking voice helps kids realize what's going on and remember to clear the area. Only downside is the manual quite clearly says you are supposed to clean it with your vacuum cleaner every few months or it can have a false alarm in the middle of the night.
I worked for a fire alarm company. A fun little fact about the alarms is they normally scan for smoke every 10 seconds. After passing a certain threshold, they start scanning every second. (And enter gigabrain mode lol). This means the battery can last 10 years but still give you a warning within one second of passing the threshold.
I knew all of this because Nest taught me about it when they launched the Nest smoke alarm a decade ago. This isn't "new" news, they were commenting on all these problems when the Nest Protect came out, including CO detection.
I really wish you made more videos (or that you could, if you simply can't). Your vids (like this one, and the crash test one) provide info that is important to virtually anyone, and can genuinely help people stay safer and live longer.
Appreciate the video and the website. Was going to grab a dual sensor photoelectric ionization sensor but after reading your site I realized its not Gen 8. So looks like I'll just go with a Gen 8/9 photoelectric unit.
Thanks! Glad it was useful. There is one Gen 8 but I couldn't find it being sold. Also most people need a carbon monoxide detector and having that interconnected is incredibly important.
So instead of going with the clearly better photo electric alarm, we put a computer into the ionization one that will problem get broken by a bad firmware update. Great.
Thank you Andrew! I've had two detectors in my house removed because they were faulty and had been slacking on replacing them - a bad move considering I work in fire protection. I just ordered three new detectors for my house that are made to the UL 217 8th edition.
I'd recommend you cover dual sensor alarms in a follow-up video. A couple years ago, on the advice of Consumer Reports, I upgraded all of our alarms to First Alert dual-sensor models. However, there's still the open question on how these alarms use each sensor. It'd be nice if you answered that.
Around 14:25 i remember the 2nd graph from childhood, I was always very cautious of any dangers to the point on reading certain laws which took hours away
the sweet slumbering mist soundeffect at 5:22 turning out to be the Dark Souls/Elden Ring death sound effect made me almost die laughing, chef's kiss on the editing
I have Nest Protect alarms and I believe they are photoelectric with two different sensors (neither is radioactive). Had them for a while now, no complaints
This reminds me of when I was in highschool, and we were making a haunted house for Halloween, we wanted an ambiance. A smoke machine set off the alarms within 10 minutes..
I have found that some of the problem was caused by using 'blend' cooking oils. Different manufacturers use different agents to suspend blended oils, and some of them aerosolize readily enough to trigger the smoke alarm.
This is just why I installed a commercial fire alarm system in the house, I use a Hertek Penta 5000 Addressable FACP with Apollo XP95 smoke and heat Detectors with sounderbase, and I also use Apollo MCP’s. Those XP95 detectors sense small smoldering fires. I also got magnetic firedoors that releases when the alarm goes off and the system sends me a sms and email notification when a system trouble or alarm occurs. I all monitor this system myself.
I just got new detectors at Menards with both photo and Ion, they were $25 each and hard wireable, this video got me to buy them after I saw it last month I had been waiting and searching for these new ones. Menards replaced their entire aisle so they’re all new and up to code
I've had the Nest 2nd gen for at least 6 years now. It's dual spectrum detector, carbon monoxide detector and wireless interconnect with each other and my home automation were worth their significant cost. I'm hoping with the new standard I won't have to take out another mortgage to get similar performance when these expire.
It's interesting and i'm actually pretty surprised that ionisation alarms are still that common in america. Here in Germany you really just use photoelectric alarms, well actually these are even the only ones that you can get, because the ionisation alarms are actually banned and aren't sold to consumers because they contain radioactive material.
Only photo electric smoke detectors are permitted in Germany. An IR diode in a chamber flashes. This is observed by a phototransistor over the corner. The light can only reach the phototransistor if there is smoke in the chamber. But in the kitchen these lead to false alarms. That's why kitchens can be monitored with a temperature sensor.
Thank you so much for this video. Thankfully we have the 2nd generation Nest Protects, which I bought in 2017. Whew. I feel so much better now. CHECK YOUR SMOKE ALARMS PEOPLE!
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GUIDE TO 8TH GENERATION SMOKE ALARMS
I've put together a guide to help you get the best alarms, improve your installation for better safety, and I've included my sources / research behind this video.
►► andrewlam.net/the-best-smoke-alarms-most-people-dont-know-about
11:45 wait you said faster ionization detection for open flames and faster photo electric detection for smoldering... don't you mean the exact opposite? EDIT: also you mentioned only three companies have 8th generation smoke alarms... There is more that three companies that have 8th gen earlier than may 2024...
Thank you Andrew for another excellent video.
I currently have both types of detectors in my home; interconnected ionization detectors and individual photoelectric CO2/smoke detectors. After watching this video, I’ll be supplementing them with at least two 8th gen UL 217 interconnected CO2/smoke alarms, one on each floor, as soon as I possible. (Making a stop today at my local
ACE hardware store)
This is perhaps one of the most valuable and informative videos on YT. Thank you again for all the time and careful research you put into each video.
@@InconsistentManner am kinda confused as well, he was recomending at the end the 8th gen ionization alamrs and in the links he put were to photoelectric sensor alarms
@@InconsistentManner I think the graph was mislabeled
@lam, either you mislabeled the graphics or you misspoke at 11:45 Either way, I’m completely confused now. Please edit the video.
My smoke detector goes off when i get out of the shower. But grandpa leaves an empty pan on high, fills the house with smoke. Yet the damn alarm didn't go off until we could barely breathe in the living room.
coz u didn't put back the battery after the last fake alarm
@@avix213 He said it still went off but very delayed
@avix213 blud, it has a working battery, and otherwise, it's the most annoying thing in the universe.
@@henryprice9493(why do people say blud-
Anyway try to go to a hardware store like lowe’s or home depot and search for smoke alarms that have a carbon monoxide and smoke detection.
(Make sure they say PHOTOELETRIC on the packaging. You can choose first alert or kiddie brands. dosent matter but anyway,Hope this helps)
Replace them with photoelectrics preferably the eighth gen models.
Optical (photo electric) alarms have been the praise in Norway for decades now. You have to try really hard to find an ionizing smoke detector at any place that sells smoke alarms
Yeah, in most places they are the standard not only for safety but because you don't need to put radiation into the landfill (although they are supposed to be properly recycled)
@@Lam Where i live you can easily get the dual version (Ionisation and photoelectric). And even the tripple version with additional Carbon Monoxide detection. Personally that is the best option.
@@_aullik Isn't CO heavy? Smoke rises, but CO sinks. Where do you put the triple sensor, midway up the wall?
@@Quidisi CO mixes with air. It will detect a little bit faster when you put it on the floor, but we are not talking about a time saving that would save your life.
If there is a wood stove in your house, put a CO detector close to it and low to the floor as you want to detect CO fast and even in small amounts. But as a regular detector in your living room it doesn't really matter (or so i've been told by fire technicians).
So to answer your question, put it on the ceiling like always.
@@Quidisi carbon monoxide is neutrally buoyant in air, actually ever so slightly buoyant.
A few years back I had hardwired smoke alarms from the mid 1980s. I kept them because they still worked. That is, until one day I was using a staple gun on a wall that had one and the vibration must have caused something inside the smoke alarm to fail. The smoke alarm caught fire, then alerted me that it was on fire lol. I took the rest of the hardwired alarms out that day. I'm still amazed to this day that a smoke alarm can still work after 30 years, catch fire, and still alert you that it's on fire.
Was the thing mains powered or how did it start burning? (Mains lines often fail by fire before smoke reaches the alarm.) Those dread unreplaceable 10 years lithium batteries are highly flammable and certain such smoke alarms did set houses on fire (which may be triggered by even triggered by a firmware backdoor to eliminate politically unwanted people and their documents). So I solely use non-wireless photoelectric smoke alarms with harmless alkaline 9V battery.
Definition of “they don’t make em how they used to” 😂
I have hardwired alarms in my house, i think theyre early 2000's, but they have 2 mains power lines and one data so if one goes off, they all go off
@@joshanderson1019 Mine were not that smart. The one that literally was on fire was the only one blaring that it was detecting smoke.
The smoke alarm caught fire 😂😮
My childhood hero and mentor was a nuclear physicist who was involved in the development of ionization alarms. I keep kicking myself for not becoming aware of the seriousness of the issue while he was still alive. That would have been an awesomely insightful discussion.
yeah that's a serious problem when it goes off because of a shower but not smoke from an actual fire
It still kinda blows my mind that you went from dashcam videos (which were good, they are why I bought my dashcam, and how I found you) to these absolutely awesome videos! I hope the algorithm pushes your videos like it should. Your channel could easily blow up. I hope it does. Keep up the good work!
Thanks a bunch, I still can't believe I made the transition either but I'm glad I did. I finally have a formula and a direction for where I want this channel to go. Now I can add speed.
Same.
@@Lam Exactly. Checking your videos I can see 1 video a year 4 years in a row. The videos are very nice. I bet you could live out of YT if there was more posts.
Haha remember another UA-camr who was reviewing dashcams and spycams 10-11 years ago. And weird motorcycles. But has been doing retro audio things since.
Hello there, this was a random algorithm on my feed. And while I know how these are made and work, this was a great video.
I am a fire alarm technician, the ionization detectors aren't even legal over 3,000ft above sea level, yet all the home improvement stores sell them at 7,000ft
Why don’t they work at altitude? We have them in the bathrooms in the airlines. And the cabin is at 8000’ all day
@@grumpy3543 look up NFPA 72
My guess would be that since the airplane’s cabin space is pressurized and the bathrooms are so small, they would perform within specification limits.
Many home improvement stores here in Massachusetts, where fire/smoke/CO/natural gas and propane alarm regulations are very strict, sell non-compliant detector products that fail to pass fire code inspections. Our code even requires all batteries to be 10-year rated, sealed and non-replaceable. I’m waiting any moment for the new 8th gen minimum requirements to be phased into effect immediately now that I just upgraded my entire system…for the 3rd time. This is getting expensive but still cheaper than a household of funerals and property in ruins!
@@randomno0 current national fire code requires household smoke detectors be replaced every decade, namely due to the use of ionization detectors, which degrade due to the reduction in Americium. I have seen some detectors last 30 years without issue, but, eventually, even the electronics degrade
Of the fatal house fires I learn of locally, almost all of them have no working smoke detectors with about half of those having none at all. In over half of the 'non-working' cases, it was battery powered and the resident apparently removed the battery. In many other cases the battery was dead. To alleviate the intentional disarming and problems with dead batteries, newer building codes require interconnected grid-powered units with battery back-up, yet you get the same problem as people now simply remove or unplug the units. It is paramount that safety devices of all kinds preclude false alarms or people will find a way to disable them.
There is a flaw in the photoelectric or optical detectors: they will alert over airborne dust as quickly as they do smoke. Based on where their sensitivity level is set, that can be an almost imperceptible amount of dust. I hope these new detectors can discriminate against that.
And here's a closing thought: Christmas may be a long way off, but for those you know who have defeated their detectors now you know the perfect present for them, and one which shows how deeply you care.
Definitely a commendable thought. But unless you also offer to install it for them, it probably won’t get done. 🤷🏻♂️
Yeah, those were a HUGE reason why people died. Hopefully with 10-year batteries and reduced false alarms that will stop being such a big problem.
Optical detectors are suspectable to dust, vacuuming is recommended and almost all newer designs have dust/ bug (spiders) to reduce that issue
Yeah, exactly that, it's an awareness and effort thing. Many people also think fires happen to other people which is why we have building codes and voluntary codes like UL 217
Do smoke alarms have a cancel button on them? Because if they don’t, it would make them way better.
The best way to ensure that people dont unplug them or remove the battery, is to make sure they dont trigger when there is no danger.
For example, my current fire alarm is of an older type, and if I do not turn on the stove fan, it will immidiately trigger for something as little as a pancake even if the pancake is not burnt at all and i cant see the smoke.
If i forget to turn on the bathroom fan, the smoke alarm in my house will also trigger from the STEAM when I shower, which imo, is worse. Imagine you are showering and it triggers the alarm in the hallway of your home and you live alone. You have no choice but to walk out of your shower.
Most people who unplug or disable their alarm would do so out of annoyance from their alarm going off when there is obviously no fire.
And regarding the comment above, a cancel button of the fire alarm would also be helpful. Perhaps a button to silence it for the next 5 minutes. This might encourage the people who would completely unplug or remove the battery when it gets a false alarm, to just push the button instead. While it does mean 5 minutes without fire detection, that is much better than potentially forever without it.
Oh, yes! Technology Connections made a similar video regarding types of smoke alarms
He did! I enjoyed his take on the topic! This video has been on my mind years ago since I last did the apartment fire safety video. I thought it was a good time now that the 8th gen requirements are being rolled out.
@Lam
Good call! This video was definitely a good refresher, and in some ways are much more in depth compared to the Connections video. Thanks!
For sure, I did watch his video! In fact I borrowed his idea of cutting in half my alarms. I actually bought the same photoelectric alarm he was using just to cut it apart as it was so much easier to animate and illustrate compared to first alert models.
There was also stuff he covered like dual sensor alarms I skipped. I like his conversational style and his dry humor 😄
1:55 "through the magic of buying 14 of them..."
Like he has any understanding or credibility
my dad's life was saved by a smoke alarm that woke him up in the middle of the night. firefighters said that if he was a minute slower to escape he would have been trapped by the flames. having a good smoke detector is important to me so thanks for the video.
yeah sadly those days are behind him with modern fire alarms being in capable of detecting smoke from an actual fire these days sadly😭😭
which is why first off if your buying a fire alarm make sure it goes off from actual smoke because your trusting it with your life you want to know it works as required
New viewer here.
Great video. Thank you.
Back in 2018 my refrigerator power cord was pinched, causing a smoldering fire in the kitchen while I was at work.
I had left an exhaust fan in one of the bathrooms going, and a passerby saw it and called the FD.
No one heard any smoke alarms going.
Glad I wasn't there, asleep.
Powerful story, I'm glad you weren't affected. Exactly the type of problem that we're trying to solve.
Have both optical (photo electric) and ionizing smoke detectors, CO and natural gas detectors, co2 and ABC extinguishers installed on every floor in my house, we have an escape plan, was in a building fire when I was a teenager, was a volunteer firefighter in my 20s. Thanks for the testing
One of the local hvac technicians said most Co2 monitors dont go off unless the levels are SUPER high
Nice, that's a great setup, I think it's hard for many people to set that up properly, especially if they want it interconnected.
@@Lam thanks, no interconnection, just newer 10 year units that I check once a year.
@@Warp3326I wouldn't call it "super high". They go off when the level is approaching being a threat to human health. Iirc, they are usually set to alert at 30-40ppm CO.
The detectors hvac techs use measure from 0, because the equipment they're servicing shouldn't allow any CO into the home, and they need to know if it does.
There are other things in a home that can produce small amounts of CO that aren't particularly harmful, such as gas stoves/ovens, certain types of cooking, candles, etc. If CO alarms were more sensitive, they would give false alarms that would eventually lead people to remove or disable them.
Hi Flash my previous Former business consultant is on the UL 217 committee he a actually went to Australia to say ionization alarms are dangerous in smoldering fires a d e en help get a photo electriconly mandate in his home state!
We once moved into a house where the previous owner smoked. One day, a smoke alarm fell on the floor and the smell of the carpet set it off.😂
It took us over a month of running all the ceiling fans nonstop at full power with all the windows open to get the smell out.
well you know smokers🤣🤣
well that means the smoke alarm is still good🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
You should buy ozone generator next time. Due to the nature of ozone, it likes to move the extra oxygen to anything (that's why it's toxic to living things). It turns other things (in this case stuff that makes smell) to gas that goes away.
Former Fire Lieutenant here. DO NOT BUY KIDDE. I have seen far too many failures of Kidde products.
Agreed 100%, just utter bargain basement in both detectors and extinguishers. For an emergency product it's idiotic to accept their failure rate.
So.... buy a KIDDE say bye to your kiddie?
As a former extinguisher tech, we had to throw out so many kidde extinguisher because they would fail their tests and couldn't be recharged. In my experience Badger was the most reliable brand.
@@alexandranicholas6310 Badger is fantastic!
Kiddie have gone to hell lately. If a product fails, they argue that you must use “energizer” batteries in them but they include gold peak??????
God, my time at job corps was sooo annoying with the optical alarms.. People getting up early morning and taking hot showers, the vapor was enough to set it off. I would angrily state these aren't smoke detectors, they're particle detectors. I'm glad to see this issue is being dealt with.
From dash cam testing to fire alarm, I appreciate you sharing your knowledge on these items. ❤
I mean, the older-gen ionization alarms ARE extremely annoying, but they've also saved my ass quite a few times because I live with roommates and have an electric coil stove and very little counter space. Roommate throws on a pot of water for Mac-n-Cheese, turns on the back burner instead of the front, tupperware catches on fire while I'm in my room with the door (right next to the stove) shut and they're in the living room watching TV or something. This happens about every 6 months or so but the detectors ALWAYS catch it within seconds of it flashing off, we just have to remember to open the kitchen door before anyone opens the oven otherwise everyone runs around to find some kinda pokey-stick-object to turn the alarm off. Hell, it ALMOST happened with a skillet full of bacon grease on the back burner LITERALLY LAST NIGHT, I just smelled it before it caught fire cause my door was open.
Haha, sometimes it just works out. Glad it saved your ass
Some roommates shouldn't be allowed within 100 ft of a kitchen
@@fridder.Don't let him cook. Your life may depend on it.
stop putting your tupperware on the stove haha
The photoelectric ones suck in deserts that experience dust storms. As an Electrician while serving in Kuwait and Iraq -every time we had dust storms they would set the alarms off and this would shut down the central A/C on systems that were connected. It made many people upset that not only was sand and dust everywhere you’d also be sweating even more in the desert heat. They would get dusty over time also which sets them off (the LED reflects off the dust particles coating the inside). You couldn’t just blow them clean with a can of compressed air/CO2 either.
Opening them up and washing the little black plastic removable cover and cleaning the detector lens with a Q- tip works but opening them at all often voids any warranty on individual devices and complete alarm systems (don’t do this, It’s better to be safe than sorry). So, we would just replace the entire detector and throw away the dirty/malfunctioning old one.
I prefer a combination Universal Security Instruments 10 Year Sealed, Battery Operated, Dual Sensing 2-In-1 Kitchen Smoke and Fire Detector, Microprocessor Intelligence detector in my home with the 10 year lithium ion battery. Steamy showers still set it off though. 😂 This is not an advertisement it’s what I actually use, I ordered them from a home improvement store they are pricey but life is priceless.
MQShawGravity, the usi model you have most likely has ONLY an ionization sensor alone. They pair that single sensor with a cpu to process the data and then call it a dual sensor equivalent. But it’s not using a photoelectric sensor and therefore I wouldn’t trust it.
@@MQShawGravity ok fair point. You must have a different model than I have. The one I’m describing is either called iophic or universal smoke sensing technology. What makes you think I’m a bot? I’m definitely a real person.
HI Niel did you know that Mr. Butler has state that an iophic is consider an ionization type and Iophic alarms have been found to cause death ? in other news did you know the cdc came out with a report that says 10 year alarms dont last 10 years ?
@@Fredengle You’re supposed to test them monthly and look for the flashing LED. Who cares if it doesn’t last an entire 10 years? I’m not putting a stinking 9 volt battery in it every month when it starts beeping.
the problem is some jurisdicition have idiots in charge and require 10 year alarms that means the only option to be legally to compliant is to replace one defective alarm with another AND also ionization alarms are less money some one might by an ionization alarm and not realize a photo electric is safer and that could cause a problem do you not realize the cpsc has over 32 years of lawsuits of ionization failures but I am willing to bet you 25.00 that any fire litigiation attoroeny you ask will not say they have a lawsuits where a photo electirc alarm has been blamed for a death because it has been argued that 100% of all lawsuits are agasint ionization technology who care well some one might by an in expensive ion 10 year alarm than is a problem one problem with requiring 10 year alarms is if people dont know there could be problems did you know they it has been scientifically proven they type of smoke alarms you use can make the diffrence between life and death! who cares you say thats not a good way of viewing the info even the battery manfs experessed their concerens these alarms dont work well and who cares you say did you know that some fire departments are bussineess partners of manfs ? you dont know if they dont require defective alarm so they can make more money who cares requireing 10 year alarms raises the price of alarms to about 40-50 dollars a photo electric alarm the type you should have in your home can be made for about 5.00 and sold for about 30- requiring 10 year alarms that are more expensive could if some one want to be complaint reduce the amount of availble alarms available did not thing of that did you ?
Here in our Australian home. We have both alarms. One of them goes off about half the time whenever I use the oven. It's so annoying! But I also understood why it behaves like that. We might have a look at the availability of the 8th gen alarms here soon!
You might try moving it. It could be that the way the air circulates in your house the air from the oven gets to the detector too quickly before it has had a chance to disperse.
Does Australia even have 8th gen alarms along the same standard as USA?
@@jayytee8062 The standard has been updated (AS3786:2023) but on a cursory search it looks like it may not have taken the USA approach of raising minimum standards for individual alarms. What it does do is allow sale of multi-detectors (e.g. CO2 and smoke) and dual sensor (ionization and photoelectric). Also requires alarms to support interconnect (all alarms sound together). This is not yet a requirement in Victoria but it is in some states, at least for rental properties.
In Victoria smoke detectors are only required outside bedrooms between the bedroom and the rest of the house which would have been ok for non-smokers but how many people now charge phones in their bedroom overnight? No way I'd sleep in a room with a Li-ion battery on charge and no smoke detector!
Hey, great on you to check which alarm you have! Unfortunately outside of America 8th / 9th gen alarm don't exist. However the technology might be in your current alarms already. I would get a photoelectric alarm for sure. I forgot which independent testing organization released info for Australia but it exists as I was looking at their recommendations during my research for this video.
You're not supposed to put smoke alarms right next to the kitchen. Also, CO detectors are far more sensitive and won't be triggered by some atomized grease or water vapor when you get out of the shower.
I went down this rabbit hole a few years ago, everyone I talk to doesn't even check if there alarm still works or has batteries 😢.
Thank you for spreading a bit more knowledge about this, if it saves one person it's worth it
Yeah, it's a real shame, but hopefully with 10-year batteries being mandated in a lot of jurisdictions, and these nuisance alarms being solved, that fire safety will be improved
@@Lam That trains us that we never have to change the batteries, since 10 years is almost forever. Except that it isn't forever. So, aren't we just going to have a lot of broken useless plastic in 10 years?
If we'd wire them to the mains and use a capacitor for backup, it could last 50 years, I'd think.
So technically you could replace the lithium battery inside with a like and kind model. However, the 10 years is to really guard against electronic failure and degradation. I can't remember if that number is overly conservative, but for critical safety equipment, as well as advances in detection, 10 years is pretty good
@@Lam And doesn't 10 years train us to never check them? I check mine.
But maybe if many people never check them to begin with, having the prior owner or landlord put in 10-year models would be an improvement... ?
@@boomergames8094They live longer than 10 years, but will make damn sure you remember to replace them after 10.
Former private Fire Inspector here. I would alarm smoke detectors via smoke at schools, hospitals, courthouses, etc.
There are some dangerous systems you shouldn't trust your life on.
In my experience;
Johnson Controls (JCI) has pull-stations that, at one medical center, failed to operate an alarming amount of the time.
Fike alarms are among the worst; it takes an insane amount of smoke to set off.
The old BG-10 style pull stations, they use a push button switch that sticks
Edwards was the system we liked best. Top of the line.
Siemens is also a brand we didn't much like
@@Senpai_Lily Interesting I worked at Siemens as a fire alarm system installer and always seen the Siemens fire alarms as way more advanced than other on the market since they have external temperature sensors and IR fire detecting sensors in addition to the photoelectric smoke detectors. Why didn't you like Siemens? The high maintenance cost?
@Atom224 On my end, I was always the one testing them, so we didn't like them because the fire panels were not as advanced & convenient to use as say, an Edwards. And when it comes to fire testing, you'll be spending a lot of time at that panel.
Another big thing is that siemens smoke detectors took a while to set off. It wasn't nearly as bad as Fike when it came to the smoke detectors but we did have difficulties with them
I bought both types of detectors for each location in my home when I moved into my house 4 years ago. All from Kidde and I have had multiple failures. Going off continuously at night for literally no reason, waking my young daughter up and traumatizing her as well as 10 year batteries that failed way early, and many false alarms. So I would not recommend going with Kidde products despite the enticing 9th gen marketing you mentioned in the description (I also think they declared bankruptcy). I will probably look at swapping out for the first alert. Really cool video!
Yeah Kidde was trash
Thanks for the story Jay! Yeah that sounds annoying, sometimes though that can be because of dust buildup. It's good to vacuum / compress air blow your alarms.
@jaybee1570 if you're receiving replies, I had similar issues with a Kiddie waking me in the middle of the night, after less than one year of owning it - the battery was supposed to last far longer than that. I do not know which brand is best, but I can tell you that I replaced it with an X-sense that detects both smoke and carbon monoxide, and it was the best of the options available.
I still think every alarm on the market has major flaws (I outlined those in a long rant in response to someone else's comment). It has been installed in the bedroom for over a year and has not had any false alarms or low battery warnings thus far. So, I suggest getting an alarm for both smoke and carbon monoxide, and can say that X-sense has not caused any problems for me.
Kidde is Walmart-grade in everything they sell. Their fire extinguishers were subject to a massive recall not long ago. I would not trust a single Kidde product with my life. I think most of their customers want peace of mind without any expectation they'll ever use it, which is worth jack squat.
@@gastonbell108 that's because Carrier bought them after they paid off Pence
I swear smoke alarms from 15 years ago were far more likely to detect cooking than now. I was going to get to the bottom of this on my own but this video exceeds what I wanted.
Some years ago some knob head took a faulty microwave oven to our workshop saying "it did not heat" as I wanted to make a quick toilet visit for a leak, So I put it on the bench, put a cup of water [for standard test], pushed in two minutes, and quickly made it to the toilet, when I returned the workshop, it was filled with smoke, but the Ionization smoke alarm had not gone off, when we took the smoke alarm outside, it worked fine with burning paper under it, as for the microwave, the owner had taken out a blown 8 Amp fuse and put in a 30 Amp car fuse, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Just before the French revolution for some strange reason back in the 18th century, François-Marie Arouet Voltaire (1694-1778) a French Enlightenment writer, historian and philosopher said;
“If there’s life on other planets, then the earth is the Universe’s insane asylum.”
[edit: few corrections]
"as for the microwave, the owner had taken out a blown 8 Amp fuse and put in a 30 Amp car fuse, "
I literally cannot state just HOW stupid this owner was. I literally cannot find the words; every time i try, my language center has an apoplexy, and that apoplexy has its OWN apoplexy.
You NEVER, EVER, under ANY CIRCUMSTANCES, replace a fuse with one of a higher rating, ***EVER!!!!!*** I would only allow an exception if the equipment is required to keep operating to sustain the life of your FAVORITE parent/child.
@@andrewdreasler428 Yeah, that's almost as dumb switching on a piece of electrical equipment and leaving it unattended when the only thing you know about it is "something ain't right."
Its nice to see they finally implemented algorithms and deep microprocessor analysing. Dual sensor units have been around for decades (FIrst Alert/BRK SA301A/B/C is the one I am most familiar with), but those were basically just threshold based and almost literally two units on the same circuit board. Waveform/time is a great way to analyse, backed with all the data gathered from testing. Great to see this!
Should have quad sensor systems. Passive IR, ionization, photoelectric and CO. An RK3588S based single board computer should be in every detector. They have an integrated NPU. As far as machine learning goes, it would be a very simple undertaking by current standards. Self-driving cars is a problem that is a billion times more complex and they're working on that. The only drawback is, in order to make the system as effective as possible, you're gonna have to light a whole lot of fires to train the system. But once it is done, it is just a simple copy and paste and over the sale of billions of devices, they'll make a massive profit on the job, not to mention saving countless lives.
With enough research and training, a multi point setup such as you'd find in a hospital could actually predict how the fire will progress and intelligently direct people which way to run.
How much will that cost and how much power will it consume? @@Lurch-Bot
@@williamwchuang1 order of magnitude more power, similar price
So how long does the battery last on these microprocessor based detectors?
5:16 I'm calling it, the solution is a air quality monitor that can detect particle counts in the PM2.5, PM10, VOC and CO
Example products?
it will only cost $500!
The quality in your videos is simply amazing! It's insane how you can make such a captivating video about smoke alarms of all things. This video was super informative and enjoyable. Hope to see more from you!
Thanks Duppy!
You missed a type of fire alarm! We've still got the wind-up ones with a temp rated disk that snaps into the front of the alarm! The disk warps at 120 degrees and lets a wind up bell sound.
And a huge number of deaths due to smoke inhalation because the alarm never went off because it didn't get hot enough close to the alarm.
Most 'fire deaths' are smoke inhalation, not burning up.
My aunt died in her bedroom when her TV burned in her livingroom yet the fire never burned anything but around the TV, the couch and things facing the TV were scorched but didn't catch fire.
YESSS new Andrew Lam vid!
My sister once opened a garage door near a smoke alarm on a humid day. That humidity rushed in and sat off the smoke alarm. Of course hers do seem like those annoying ones that could go off at any moment when you cook anything. Worst of all they are all connected to each other so when one goes off you get a horrible cacophony of alarm sounds!
A "horriblle cacaphony of alarm sounds" is usually not a bad thing from smoke detectors.
It's surreal to see a video that shows me something I've known about for over a decade. I remember being a relatively young teenager and going to a free lunch for elderly citizens sponsored by the fire department, to educate older people on the importance of having the right kind of fire detectors. I went with my grandparents, and saw basically the same sort of research shown in this video.
They recommended a classical fire alarm that was physically wound up, and had a plastic/wax stopper that melted at a specific temperature. I wonder how those types of alarms perform against the modern battery of tests in a wide range of different types of fires. This was at least over 15 years ago, so I'd be interested in how those types of alarms hold up against modern testing standards.
yeah so all it does is reinforce your ideas which keep you alive making sure the fire alarm goes off from smoke not other crap because fires emit smoke plain and simple
There seems to be an Error at 11:45 with the Naming of the Graphs on the Left Side. Seems like "Photoelectric" and "Ionization" are mixed up.
Edit: Same thing at 13:45.
It's not, so the chart shows how much escape time it gives you, not how long it takes for the alarm to go off. Yes it's a little confusing, one of the testers told me about it but I didn't find a good way to express that official finding.
@@Lam ok then it just had me confused. Maybe an Note saying "Higher is better" would be nice then.
@@Lam I found it clear enough in your labeling it as "escape time". However there are many people who are seemingly averse to reading these days, and a graph or chart will be what they focus on so they might miss it.
@@P_RO_ it's definitely counterintuitive. The whole time everything was about how quickly each type can detect the smoke/fire. The obvious choice would have been detection speed comparison not escape time which is the reverse of that.
@@szacsesz It is a question of perspective. I didn't enter closed-minded into a learning environment with expectations of how the info was going to be presented.
As a retired electrician, I always used at least 1 optical smoke detector, mainly in the room closet to the kitchen. I always put detectors in all bedrooms and hallways. One of the biggest things is placement, they need air flow. Not too close to the ceiling or in a corner. Always read the directions.
Cool. And I would like to note that I just change somebody smoke alarm that was still functioning but the beeping was not. So definitely check to make sure it actually beeps when you press the test button and it's not super silent.
I have heard some people are against what I am going to call "Smart Sensors" in the 8th generation Ionization Sensors. The reason being that computer algorithms are not perfect, and if it is able to figure out if it is cooking smoke, on not trigger the alarm, then it could think it is cooking smoke, and not trigger the alarm, even if it is a real fire. This also makes no difference that ionization sensors still don't work at all with very thick smoke.
Always great to see a new video pop up!
Same! Haha, I can't wait to get these out faster.
Great video as always Andrew! Keep up the high quality videos. They're really appreciated.
Important: Use only Photoelectric type smokes alarms. Ionization have been proven way too slow to respond to fires.
Details: Ionization sensors react faster to flaming fires, but only marginally (1 minute). However, photoelectric sensors detect smoldering fires (the most common type) 15 to 50 minutes faster!
Note: Combination Photoelectric / Ionization detectors can be good but there is an issue. Some models require both sensors to agree (dangerous) while others will alarm when only one senses smoke. For example, I think (but have not verified) that First Alert will sound an alarm if just one sensor detects smoke. For this reason, I recommend only Photoelectric smoke detectors.
Capt-intrepid your comment about the 15 to 50 minutes faster is misleading. Many times the ionization alarm will not sound at all. But the photoelectric alarm will sound with plenty of time to escape. How do you compare these two times? Short time vs never. Is that infinitely faster?
Basically I’m saying that the 15 to 50 claim is underselling the benefits. It’s better to say it works vs the other one doesn’t work.
Whenever a smoke alarm in my house stops working, it would usually make a calm beeping sound that only happens around once a minute since it’s kind of hard to find the specific batteries have a bunch of first alert, alarms that we would replace the old ones with overtime
meh your dreams Beep oh shit fire! oh the battery's dying🤣🤣
Great video Andrew Lam. It was worth all your effort and I appreciate it.
Thanks! I appreciate you too
31 years old and I am just now learning this.
My family and I thank you.
4:38 cigarettes in USA were reformulated in 2006 to not stay lit for very long w/o puffing on it. That change to the tobacco, along with the reduction in cigarette smoking, pretty much eliminated fires caused by smokers who fall asleep with lit cigs.
I've been a fire investigator for over 26 years. While we see fewer smoking fires, I believe that the biggest reason for that is that a smaller percentage of our populations smokes. The "fire safe" cigarettes are not all that safe. I have personally started many training fires using them. We have conducted tests that have shown that the bands that are supposed to extinguish the cigarette when nobody is drawing on the it anymore commonly failed to do so. It's not a rare occurrence by any means.
@@keppscrossing another aspect could be that people who do smoke don't smoke indoors (at least, not as much), as most leases nowadays prohibit it (public places prohibit it as well, but most cigarette fires are house/apartment fires).
Great Work!! I'm an a electronics fire Professional and typically find mistakes you covered an corrected well
I'm going to buy some of the fancier smoke detectors you recommended!
As a renter, I found nearly every apartment ive been in has expired detectors (>20 year old ones common on the east coast). Now in addition to smart lights, I'll be moving between rentals with smart detectors. Keep up the great videos, Andrew
In Seattle my apartment building just replaced all the smoke/CO detectors after 10 years. The Seattle fire department also comes by I believe once a year or every 2 years and inspects each apartment as well as the entire premises.
I'm a PE that deals with commercial construction. For decades, the standard smoke detector for a fire alarm system has been photoelectric, with dual technology being a common requirement. So, if you live in a modern apartment building, you likely already benefit from that.
Also, when you talk about the history of smoke alarms and mention early models that used thermometers, that's _technically_ a heat detector. And that's something we still use today. In fact, most commercial buildings have heat detectors in certain areas where it's more likely heat would build up before smoke.
My housing company provided a very basic, simplistic optical one, fine but combined with the kitchen connecting to the hallway where it sat, without a door... Damn thing would have a panic attack if you boiled some water in the kettle for coffee, never mind cook.
Replaced it with my own heat-sense based fire alarm for kitchens and added a monoxide alarm for an additional sense.
Can't live with one that goes off needlessly 5 times a day, that also just desensitizes you to the alarm going off (boy who cried wolf.) so you'll probably not rush that 1 time it isn't a false alarm after a 100 false ones.
Photodetector alarms are recommended for kitchens to alleviate that false alarm problem. Ionization or combined for everywhere else. Of course, "kitchen" means wherever kitchen fumes actually end up going, which isn't always just the kitchen.
@@travcollier Also forgot to mention the optical one they placed here would just seemingly randomly go off without kitchen activities as well. Probably was factory-defective. Or maybe tiny flies, I have some plants that need moist soil at all times. So in summer there are always a few coffin flies around. Might have been flying into the sensor compartment?
I did try to go through the housing company to get it replaced but they seemed somewhat unaware what they installed here and that it's a not-for-the-tennant-to-touch/maintain alarm system. Did not manage to get someone on the phone who knew anything about it. :|
I'll look into the "8th gen" alarms mentioned in the video.
I'm content with the thermal kitchen and monoxide detectors for any fires or monoxide leak that might start in the kitchen or the heating system.
Still want a separate one more smoke sensitive in the bedroom and living room for e.g a smolder starting there. That would cause a lot of smoke before heating up the area around the thermal alarm enough to trigger it.
(I'm not in the US, ionizaton type haven't been sold here for ages. But there seems to be something like shitty-optical ones too (unless it was just defective ofc.))
@@InnSewerAnts I have heard of insects or spiders entering optical fire alarms setting them off before. That seems like a possibility.
@@05Matz Oxidation of the optical plastics and dust accumulation will kill the photo electric units as well.
As a direct result of watching this video, I’m replacing 3 smoke detectors that not only use the old ionizing tech, but also (as I discovered when I was checking them) were manufactured in 2002, so are long past due to be replaced anyway. Thanks for bringing this to my attention!
Dang I just replaced all my detectors a few months ago with photoelectric from kiddie
Well, at least you did it! Most people wouldn't even consider doing it.
Edit: photoelectric puts you good position, I wouldn't feel the need to upgrade
You should double check that they're still working. I bought a Kiddie alarm recently and the "10 year battery" died after a few days
The contractor installed 8 kidde model 900-CUAR in our new home. Photo electric, hard wired + battery backup. By Month 5: 3 failed by false alarms in the middle of the night, no combustion or dust was happening. Batteries were good. This alarm is JUNK.
I have all photoelectric alarms from Siterwell in my house as smoldering fires are my greatest concern (lots and lots of computer equipment), and they've been pretty good - one time they triggered on a CFL light bulb I'd left switched on while we had a failing transformer outside that was intermittently feeding double the normal voltage to our system. I've also had the occasional false positive from a tiny spider crawling inside one, but occasional air dusting seems to have solved that.
then ur fine, photoelectric is still straight up just better.
Last place we lived, it took almost no effort cooking to trigger the smoke alarm no where near the kitchen (and the PM2.5 detectors on my air cleaners).. made me paranoid about any smoke from doing soldering.. heh.
I actually have only one single smote detector in my house, one without a battery that just sits on a board in the stairwell. And my house is fully made of wood, as quite common for rural areas of Sweden…
While ionisation alarms can still be bought here in New Zealand. They aren't so common anymore and are not recommended. It is primarily photoelectric now.
what I am wondering is: why don't all cooking ovens/their heating plates come with built in Timers for each plate? You turn on the plate AND set the timer, just in case! Then, if You/Me forgets something, the Timer turns off the plate and the meal isn't completely cooked but this is better than the kitchen or house geting completely "smoked" or worse!!! (which happens all too often)
Because it would annoy the shit out of everyone. A stove with a 5min "dead man" switch... I guess you've never cooked anything more complicated than an egg, or slice of baloney. If you're that forgetful, you shouldn't be allowed to cook without supervision.
@@jfbeam Some people think they're always smart and never make mistakes. Smart people know they're dumb for a few minutes a day, just about every day.
I bought two induction cooktops a few years ago, brand Duxtop $70 hobs, and they have timers. Timeout is not the default but you can set it. I looked around and there are not many stoves with this feature for some reason, other than on the oven. I think Thermadore has one. The Duxtops are still working, I think it's been 5 years.
@@jfbeam You are somehow right about my cooking expertise; nevertheless, how many times did my wife, who does the regular cooking, set the kitchen and other rooms full of annoying smoke, fortunately not yet fire. Even my neighgor's wife once fried a stake to black smoldering coke!
Btw.: now that the gov is in the know, they should promote selling "Double Tech" smoke detectors, photoelectric + ionization!!
And another very annoying point, each new detector comes with different mounting dimensions!!! How many holes do we have to drill over and over again!
Andrew, thanks for working the comments. 👍🏼 So many creators drop and dash. And you never hear from them until the next video. Your dedication is much appreciated❣️
Yeah, appreciate that! I think one of my joys is interacting with everyone watching especially with the supportive community I have. It also helps give me a sense of good or bad what the general vibe is.
Quite good stuff. I like how you provided the references in the caption. I look forward to checking out your channel. Subscribed. Cheers
You're very welcome! Thanks for mentioning it, sometimes it's hard to know if that effort helps anyone. I'm going to flesh out more of my sources in the next week or so.
I have a smoke alarm that has both types of sensors. Always found that it works WAY better than my older one that caused a lot of false alarms during cooking
Great video! (as former certification engineer) UL standards are based on NFPA 72 (national requirements). The two work together along with industry, fire protection professionals, etc. in developing minimum requirements (emphasis - minimum)
Back in the 80's, I used to work in a building with ionization detectors everywhere. A typical day was five false detections. The usual culprits were detectors that sensed moving air such as those mounted near open windows or that had electric fans pointing toward them. When I moved to another company that installed fire alarms, I recommended photoelectric detectors. No false alarms. In fact, the owners began to wonder "Are these things working?" So we sold smoke detector testing kits or a three- or six-month smoke test service.
Then someone came along and tried to get us to sell their multi-sensor detectors. These had photoelectric, ionization, and heat sensors in one unit. Unfortunately, they were much too expensive. I would have loved to test them to see if they still give false detections but we didn't even try them.
What I find most disturbing is, that my smoke detectors tend to detect a low battery only between 2 and 4 AM in the middle of the night...
Why can't they have two battery levels: When the battery voltage is below the first level AND when at the same time there is enough light, then and only then sound the "battery low" alarm.
(Yes, define "enough light"...).
And when the battery voltage is below the second (lower) level, then sound the "battery low" alarm no matter if it's bright or dark in the room
(This is just in case it cannot detect enough daylight and the battery level is lower and lower, then it's OK to sound the "battery low" alarm anyways, no matter if you are probably awake or not...)
It would be so easy...
And so helpful...
Oh and beep more often than just once every 2 minutes.
@@pizzablender oh yes, imagine it's in another room, you go out the hallway, "where is it"... All right, wait for two minutes in the hallway... Oh I hear it, was it here or there... Not sure... Wait another 2 minutes...
Yeah, I wish they had something like that. The problem is you need a smarter and more expensive alarm that manufacturs don't want to engineer for.
I found out during my research that smoke alarms chirp at night, because colder temperatures drop the voltage sounding the warning. When it warms up during the day it goes away. Incredibly frustrating
@@Lam that's interesting, sure, when it gets colder during the night, the battery voltage drops a bit. Sure it does. And when it's already just a tiny bit above the minimum voltage, this could be the trigger...
@@richard--s And then it suddenly stops it is getting warme or cooler in the home...
There is one benefit to heat detectors - they can be used in cold environments! Apparently other types of detectors won't work in environments that are under 5 degrees Celsius. Places like unheated garages, storage units, and the like. I also wonder if photoelectric would work in such environments as well.
This video is not doing too well on the UA-cam algorithm.
Nah, this is doing just fine. My videos take a bit to pick up
Pulled me in. Never heard of this dude. Definitely never consumed anything related to smoke detectors. Only thing close might be chemical safety board videos, but it's been many months. Anyway, showed up on my feed tonight.
Awesome, glad to know this video is trickling out.
@@Lam If I have a really high end smoke and heat detector combo that works really well and goes to a security system, should I replace it?
Probably not, sounds like you're in the UK because that's a more common system there. Most likely you have photoelectrics and that's going to be more than fine.
Interesting schooling on a subject I had assumed was inconsequential. But I do work on the prevent rather than react. Google most common causes of house fires and look all over your house! Things like lightning you can't do much about but many of the most common causes you can!
why don't people just stop updating the *fires* .
lol😂
At 11:26 and 13:28, are the labels of the bar graphs switched around accidentally? From the audio I expect that 'Ionization' on the left (Smoldering Fire Warning Time) would have the blue 35m 36s bar, and that 'Ionization' on the right (Flaming Fire Warning Time) would have the slightly faster blue 2m 9s bar
Hey Mool,
The graph is correct, it's an unusual way of talking about how useful an alarm is.
The actual metric is ASET - Available Safe Egress Time, which is how long after the alarm goes off you have to get out before conditions become dangerous. It's a more accurate measure of how useful an alarm is in saving your life. It's also an indirect a measure of how fast each alarm is alarm is.
Yes, this is confusing, I thought about different ways to represent the data and this is the simplified version although I should have went with "escape time".
@@Lam Ah thank you for explaining. That metric is not clearly indicated in the graph or narration, and I find it not very intuitive.
UK is not in Europe but Iceland is? Huh
UK is not anymore in the European Union which Hase a lot of life saving norms, which you doesn’t need to follow anymore in the UK. So he meant not the continent but the Union.
Good info. When I moved into this house almost 10 years ago, I changed out all of the alarms as there were 10 years old and discolored. The round and round about ionization and photoelectric back then... Thus, I have some of both with one type also having carbon monoxide detection. It's almost time for new alarms.
Fire code where I live was changed 4-5 years ago to require networked smoke detectors and the new units aren't going off even after burning rice to coal to the point that I can barely see the kitchen wall from across the hallway. Works fine on smoke from burning paper as a test to make sure it is actually able to detect smoke, haven't tried other types of smoke. Previous alarm was an ionizing type that often went off for no apparent reason, even ambient humidity was enough to set it off on exceptionally humid days.
Thanks for making this video. I wasn't looking for this info but I'm happy to have it.
The juxtaposition of gags like the Cookie Monster with grim sh!t like "You Died" is way funnier.
I love your videos dude. Keep it up, i promise youtube will love you as much as we do!!!!
As a former NICET Level IV technician, I learned something today and updated my knowledge.
Thank you!
My previous answer was _"Why not both?_
Another cause of nuisance alarms in photoelectric detectors is steam, whether from cooking (boiling water) or a good hot shower. And then there is the need for cleaning - little spiders and their microscopic webs are the worst, although drywall dust is a problem for photoelectric devices, as well.
carry on!
I'm still wondering what the differences in detection are between the two devices. From the research conducted both types are now improved but is it enough where it's minimal returns on having both types or should we still put in that effort.
My response as well to having both is that people should prioritize housewide interconnection first and it's difficult to get both types onto one circuit especially as there's only one dual sensor model because they sell poorly.
Steam is a big factor, something I didn't address. I know NEST has split spectrum photoelectric sensors + humidity sensors that are supposed to deal with that better. I haven't seen a test looking at how much better it is. Ideally though most people will install their alarm out of the line of fire.
@@Lam All good points, program compliance is far more important than the nuances.
Photoelectrics do require more maintenance (cleaning) and most people aren't up to that.
I did not know about the humidity sensor technology, that seems like a great idea especially in a bathroom/bedroom hallway.
I am disappointed that SimpliSafe is not keeping up with this. I use their devices as an adjunct to the required wired / interconnected smoke detectors; for the purpose of automatic notification during unoccupied periods.
A combination Carbon Monoxide (CO) detector is also not a bad idea.
@@Lam It's kind of amazing the 2nd gen Nest came out in 2015 and is UL 217 compliant. After researching the different types of fires and detectors in 2016, I installed Protects in four locations between 2016 and last year. It's unfortunate Google largely abandoned development of the Nest product line, though.
This is also covered on the channel "Technology Connections", but it can not be covered enough.
Glad to see such a great explanation of this and a good breakdown of the differences. There's a reason I have both types of detector in my house, and I didn't just choose where each type was placed at random. The spots more prone to a fast starting, flaming fires have ionization detectors, and the rest are photoelectric.
You're welcome! That's a great way to maximize coverage and protection assuming the most critical ones are interconnected
Great setup. I would make sure you have an alarm on each floor that's interconnected.
Thanks for the very useful information. It also made me realize that one of my detectors is in the wrong location.
It baffles me that when I walk into any hardware store and the shelves are still filled with ion detectors... by 2014 most fire alarm companies stopped offering ions... this has been a pain as depending of the system you may need to reprogram your panel to change to a photo... but for over a decade you haven't been able to purchase new Ions for ANY fire alarm system.
What country are you talking about ?
@@dmitripogosian5084 Canada. Go to Home Depot, Canadian Tire, Rona, or any other hardware store and the shelves are full of ions... go to any electrical wholesaler and unless you specifically order a photo you get an ion...
What sucks is you have to do all the work at the order desk... if you say you want a photoelectric they have no idea and will insist all they have are ions... which may be true as even wholesalers like ADI only stock ions and you need to order in photos
Consequently I have had to replace alarms installed new in apartments that are only a few years old due to constant nuisance alarms as modern layouts force smoke alarms to practically be in the kitchen
In Europe, we waved that magic wand a long time ago.
Electrician here. A popular local brand of smoke alarms has recently changed their flagship combo alarm (smoke and Co) to have photo electric technology instead of ionization technology. Most other combo alarms I work with have ionization technology.
This is why we still have heat sensors for the kitchens. And dual sensor alarms using multiple detection methods for smoke in all the other rooms
It's also worth mentioning that the recommended pitch for smoke alarms has changed. Turns out the super high frequency alarm (3150 Hz) is no good at waking people with hearing loss (most adults over 50), and not great at waking children. They were designed to be annoying, both to wake you and encourage you to actually leave. They also are _incredibly_ painful to anyone with audio sensitivity. The new standard post 2010, required for any dwelling where people with hearing loss might sleep ( and recommended for _everyone_ ), is a 520 Hz alarm. While I don't believe the standard requires it, the manufacturers making them have mostly gone with sawtooth alarms rather than sine-wave. This maximizes the ability to wake people.
Unfortunately, alarms are often not clearly labeled, even sometimes having the same model number between the high and low frequency alarms. First Alert's talking photoelectric alarm is 520 Hz, and tends to be my preferred choice. It's photoelectric, so works well on visible smoke. The sawtooth wave reliably wakes you at night. And the talking voice helps kids realize what's going on and remember to clear the area. Only downside is the manual quite clearly says you are supposed to clean it with your vacuum cleaner every few months or it can have a false alarm in the middle of the night.
I worked for a fire alarm company. A fun little fact about the alarms is they normally scan for smoke every 10 seconds. After passing a certain threshold, they start scanning every second. (And enter gigabrain mode lol). This means the battery can last 10 years but still give you a warning within one second of passing the threshold.
I knew all of this because Nest taught me about it when they launched the Nest smoke alarm a decade ago. This isn't "new" news, they were commenting on all these problems when the Nest Protect came out, including CO detection.
I really wish you made more videos (or that you could, if you simply can't). Your vids (like this one, and the crash test one) provide info that is important to virtually anyone, and can genuinely help people stay safer and live longer.
Working on improving my process to get stuff out faster!
@@Lam That's great news, and I'm looking forward to it!
Appreciate the video and the website. Was going to grab a dual sensor photoelectric ionization sensor but after reading your site I realized its not Gen 8. So looks like I'll just go with a Gen 8/9 photoelectric unit.
Thanks! Glad it was useful. There is one Gen 8 but I couldn't find it being sold. Also most people need a carbon monoxide detector and having that interconnected is incredibly important.
So instead of going with the clearly better photo electric alarm, we put a computer into the ionization one that will problem get broken by a bad firmware update. Great.
Thank you Andrew! I've had two detectors in my house removed because they were faulty and had been slacking on replacing them - a bad move considering I work in fire protection. I just ordered three new detectors for my house that are made to the UL 217 8th edition.
Amazing! Glad to help and glad you made the move.
How much ?
Awesome, very informative video! I appreciate you keeping me in the know on technology that could make all the difference in a house fire
I'd recommend you cover dual sensor alarms in a follow-up video. A couple years ago, on the advice of Consumer Reports, I upgraded all of our alarms to First Alert dual-sensor models. However, there's still the open question on how these alarms use each sensor. It'd be nice if you answered that.
Around 14:25 i remember the 2nd graph from childhood, I was always very cautious of any dangers to the point on reading certain laws which took hours away
the sweet slumbering mist soundeffect at 5:22 turning out to be the Dark Souls/Elden Ring death sound effect made me almost die laughing, chef's kiss on the editing
I have Nest Protect alarms and I believe they are photoelectric with two different sensors (neither is radioactive). Had them for a while now, no complaints
This reminds me of when I was in highschool, and we were making a haunted house for Halloween, we wanted an ambiance. A smoke machine set off the alarms within 10 minutes..
I have found that some of the problem was caused by using 'blend' cooking oils. Different manufacturers use different agents to suspend blended oils, and some of them aerosolize readily enough to trigger the smoke alarm.
This is just why I installed a commercial fire alarm system in the house,
I use a Hertek Penta 5000 Addressable FACP with Apollo XP95 smoke and heat Detectors with sounderbase, and I also use Apollo MCP’s.
Those XP95 detectors sense small smoldering fires.
I also got magnetic firedoors that releases when the alarm goes off and the system sends me a sms and email notification when a system trouble or alarm occurs.
I all monitor this system myself.
I just got new detectors at Menards with both photo and Ion, they were $25 each and hard wireable, this video got me to buy them after I saw it last month I had been waiting and searching for these new ones.
Menards replaced their entire aisle so they’re all new and up to code
3:06 that was a crazy transition, big up to the editor :D
I've had the Nest 2nd gen for at least 6 years now. It's dual spectrum detector, carbon monoxide detector and wireless interconnect with each other and my home automation were worth their significant cost. I'm hoping with the new standard I won't have to take out another mortgage to get similar performance when these expire.
It's interesting and i'm actually pretty surprised that ionisation alarms are still that common in america. Here in Germany you really just use photoelectric alarms, well actually these are even the only ones that you can get, because the ionisation alarms are actually banned and aren't sold to consumers because they contain radioactive material.
Only photo electric smoke detectors are permitted in Germany.
An IR diode in a chamber flashes. This is observed by a phototransistor over the corner.
The light can only reach the phototransistor if there is smoke in the chamber.
But in the kitchen these lead to false alarms. That's why kitchens can be monitored with a temperature sensor.
Not just smoke. Anything that reflects the light will set it off... dust, steam, critters, etc.
first ive seen of you Andrew. Keep this up and you WILL be successful
Thank you so much for this video. Thankfully we have the 2nd generation Nest Protects, which I bought in 2017. Whew. I feel so much better now.
CHECK YOUR SMOKE ALARMS PEOPLE!
Yeah! Good choice!
I remember when my father bought one of the early smoke detectors. Whenever there was heavy fog outside the detector in the basement would sound.