WTF Happened to Batman Forever?
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- Опубліковано 2 сер 2023
- To say that 1995's Batman Forever was a departure for the franchise is a massive understatement. Director Joel Schumacher's candy-colored comic book was a far cry from Tim Burton's gothic depiction of the Caped Crusader, complete with a new actor underneath the cowl, with Val Kilmer replacing Michael Keaton. While it certainly paved the way for the abysmal Batman & Robin, people forget that Batman Forever was a critical and commercial success (even with nipples on the batsuit). In this episode of WTF Happened to this Movie we dig into how Kilmer ended up replacing Keaton, how Jim Carrey wound up playing The Riddler and why Tommy Lee Jones (as Two-Face) hated him, how Chris O'Donnell became Robin and why Nicole Kidman replaced Rene Russo as the eleventh hour when the latter was deemed "too old." Plus - what is the "Schumacher Cut"? You'll find out in WTF Happened to Batman Forever!
Written by Bryan Wolford
Narrated by Mathew Plale
Edited by Juan Jimenez
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#BatmanForever #Val Kilmer #JImCarrey #Batman #joelschumacher #wtfhappenedtothismovie - Розваги
Joel Schumacher always said he was a Batman fan and wanted to do something darker, but Warner Bros wanted a lighter Batman. He could easily have made a good darker Batman movie, especially when you see his movies like Flatliners, Falling Down, and Phone Booth
At first Keaton was going to stay on because burton was producer and Joel and Keaton wanted to do batman year one when wb didn’t allow them to do that Keaton walked
That was so dumb especially considering how Warner Bros is known for some of their darker animation especially the Batman cartoons. As well as later on the Harry Potter franchise getting darker and darker over the years.
Over time I have given Schumacher more of the benefit of the doubt. He has made good films and, in both films, he did update the style of the 60’s series pretty well actually. It’s just that nobody wanted that style, even himself initially, and he has owned up to the absolute cluster that is Batman and Robin until the day he died, never blaming fans for not “understanding” his vision, but owning up to “yeah, I made a clunker, I’m sorry”
Forever isn't a terrible movie im not so hardcore into Batman that I can't enjoy a lighter take im fine with a lighter Batman but Forever isn't a good sequel to Burtons Batman it works better as a stand alone Batman film. Forever is fun but has a messy script overall its an alright time killer and much more entertaining then Batman and Robin.
At the end, Joel was done so dirty.
I think Val Kilmer's performance as Batman and Bruce Wayne was really good. He's close to the same height as the character.
Yes. One of the most underappreciated aspects of an unfairly maligned film.
I thought Batman was atleast 6'3 not 5'11
@@mew10521 Well, in the comics, he's 6'2", 210 pounds.
@@Reddragon05100 well out of all the actors who have portrayed Batman/Bruce Wayne he's handsomest of all of them
@@mew10521 True, true.
"I cannot sanction your buffoonery" is the most Tommy Lee Jones insult ever
He has played quite a few characters that this line being said by them would have 100% worked in any number of assorted scenes. I can absolutely hear his voice saying that.
I still can't really wrap my head around that. Especially considering the fact that his Two-Face was really similar to that Riddler. Even more energized. He was really more like the Joker.
@@MickAshMetalManJim Carrey is insufferable as a person.
😭😭😭😭
I use that expression pretty regularly ever since I read about it a few years ago
I watched this movie so many times, my vhs wore out. It had a beautiful aesthetic and it was just what I wanted to see as a 7 year old. It was the first thing outside of a cartoon that held my attention. Of course the adult me can see where it falls short but as a kid, it was perfect.
I totally agree with that assessment as I saw this movie at a drive in theater when I was around that age. I feel the same way about the tmnt 3 film.
It's the best Batman movie ever made. That's coming from an adult.
@@talesfromtheclassroomWhat exactly is it that sets it apart and makes it so great for you?
it's the most faithful depiction of the mythos, drawing inspiration from all the different facets of Batman while striking a perfect balance between them: part camp, part psychodrama, part crime-thriller and popcorn actioner. It's the most competently directed Bat flick (which is no surprise, given Schumacher's track record), with a slick comics-inspired aesthetic, perfect pacing, fantastic performances (Jim Carrey steals the show as Riddler), and an incredible Goldenthal score which somehow manages to surpass Elfman's. It's superhero escapism at its finest. It's quintessential Batman.@@elevenseven-yq4vu
One reason why Jones and Carrey didn’t get along, was because Jones’ film Cobb got overshadowed by Carey’s film Dumb and Dumber. So there’s that.
What???!!! Where's your resource?
Cobb was a top notch movie.
Maybe because it was called Cobb.
There’s that. And that’s a fact, Jack
Interesting that Batman 3’s worst enemy wasn’t Joker. It’s was the other Clown Prince of Crime: Ronald McDonald.
That was funny
Great joke!
"Of crime"
🗣 1990.
I thought it was the Nipple Monster.
You can say all you want about this movie, but you can't deny that the soundtrack was pure fire. U2, Seal, Nick Cave, Flaming Lips, Mazzy Star, Brandy, PJ Harvey, The Offspring... The list goes on!
Same goes for Batman and Robin. I rebought the soundtracks on vinyl recently, still listen to them. The movies, though... haven't seen the movies since they came out. Feel absolutely no desire to do so.
Your righy kiss from a rose was and still is a banger!
It was great. Still like to listen to it to this day.
Agreed. The music was great but isn't that why we go to concerts? I go to movies to be entertained. The music gives you the ambiance. The film should stand on its own. Which is a lot to ask for these days. I know because all we can do these days is remake old stuff and destroy it
Kinda like how i feel about Space Jam. Ok movie, great soundtrack. Even as a kid i always fast forward the vhs to get to the credits. A New Legacy would have been tolerable is it at least had that. LT:BIA still the best movie tho.
That behavior for Kilmer was not unusual. He’s acted like that before, and even worse than that. Val has admitted that much himself.
This gets lumped in with Batman & Robin a lot but I think Forever is a better film in just about every way. The film looks fantastic; imaginative art direction, great use of color and rich cinematography, which the academy seemed to agree. The plot about a petty tech genius creating devices that can steal all of our dreams and personal information is as relevant now as ever.
Batman Forever is alright, Batman And Robin is s h i t.
It gets lumped in now. At the time, Forever was well liked. That seems to be denied or forgotten now.
BINGO! Everything you stated is correct. There's something fantastical and surrealistic this movie captures and it's a very elusive trait.
I agree. Everyone else is wrong about this movie.
Yeah I remember seeing Forever as a kid and loving it especially because of Jim Carrey
The darkness and world building in the first two Batman movies is what made them so great to us as children and why they are still considered the best of all time
In a post Snyder cut world, I would like to see a new cut of this movie since there’s a lot of great deleted scenes. That might make the movie better
I’d rather see Schumacher orginal vision
It exists. Kevin Smith supposedly has the directors cut.
Honestly, I don't think there is any cut that can save this movie. IMO almost every single one of the actors was totally miscast. From Jim Carrey to Tommy Lee Jones to Kilmer himself.
@@Rykiz_Vidz As I’ve gotten older, it hasn’t aged that well. However, I still enjoy it on occasion. It’s the nostalgia for me. I did think Kilmer did a good job personally and he was very good as Bruce Wayne. I would’ve enjoyed seeing the darker side explored more.
@89stebu Well what really threw me off was watching Batman the animated series first and then watching the live action movies. Where Warner Bros produced the animated Batman which was extremely dark and tackled very dark subject matter which my young mind enjoyed. The live action was usually very campy which was NOT Batman to me at all.
Batman Forever was my first Batman so it has a special place in my heart. Arguably the biggest guilty pleasure I have aside from Attack of the Clones lol
my first Batman in the cinema...pure fun for a summer movie, just rewatched it recently...i'd call it a summer classic!
Lol same here. I love this movie. I’m not ashamed.
You are embarrassed that you like episode 2?the code forbids that so I'm expelling you from the Jedi order!!!!!
Nothing to be ashamed of it’s not that bad batman and robin was bad forever was a little over the top but it worked for me
@@jimbowlan5804 I hate the bright colors so much especially in Batman and Robin it makes it almost unwatchable for me bc it really hurts my eyes.
Rest in peace, Joel Schumacher. He had quite a unique directing style, and will be forever missed.
Too bad he took a beating for wb he wanted darker movies not the colorful campy or the straight up 2 hr toy add
Is it possible that Tommy Lee Jones just, I don't know, Didn't Like Jim Carey? Like what is so hard to grasp here? Sometimes you meet people and they just rub you the wrong way. It happens all the time, to expect actors to be immune to that is ridiculous.
Thank you.
I hate people that whine about folks not liking them.
Wow. Warner Brothers really showed how little they cared about the actors, by using Robin Williams as a pawn to get Jack Nicholson and changing their minds about using Renee Russo, because she was six years older than Val Kilmer, despite having plenty of movies in which men were 20+ years older than their love interest. I guess most studios are hypocritical like that, which explains why this writers/actors strike we have now.
Out of all the batman movies this was one of them.
This is the wikipedia style entry of information that you could also find out by watching the secondary material on the film. Bonus features on the physical media releases.
Brad Dourif as Scarecrow sounds perfect!
I had that video game on Sega and never finished it. I kept getting stuck on the level to fight The Riddler. They had all these little devices that had lights that you had to do in a particular order for the door open😮
I still have that game and I had actually just replayed through it a few months ago. It's actually not that hard when you pick to play as Batman instead of Robin, because Batman has some broken weapons you can pick at the beginning if each stage. If you pick I think it is the bat handcuffs and the stun shock device you can throw, it makes the game so easy.
The only tricky parts like you said are the timed stages like the circus level where it isn't exactly clear where to go. Then the final boss being a giant Riddler always totally threw me off lol
I never got why this film got knocked. I liked it. It looked a lot more like a comic book than Burton's depressing vision.
I liked this movie more than the first one and still do!
😂😂 it did
Batman Forever was the first Batman movie I seen in the cinema, I was six and I still love it.
Same!
From Batman 89 to Batman and robin in theaters they were always my birthday party every time since they either came out the week before or a few days after and returns came out on my birthday
Batman Forever is a strange film and can practically be divided into two parts. The first part is the scenes with Batman and the villains, and the second is with Bruce Wayne and the people around him.The first part is campy and silly while the second part is pretty serious and good. As if it is not one and the same movie. Pay attention to those elements if you haven't already. That's why Batman Forever is an interesting movie.I think the movie would have been much better if they had fully utilized the second part and its tone.I think it would have been a superior film.
Well the villains are crazy with evil passion and dr chase and bruce crazy with good passion
This sounds almost as if the movie was...
... two-faced.
Riddle me that.
One of the most fun and underrated superhero movies of all time, I can’t help but have a fun time watching this movie
it does have its moments, ... once or twice
I enjoyed it too I think. Hard to remember 25 years ago tho
I was 8 years old when this maybe came out and loved it-- enough to steal a magazine where it was featured on the cover and my mom only found out when we got home and realized that I had taken it. Got a nice spanking but my dad took me to see it on opening day. Will never forget it was awesome
This definitely wasn't my favorite but I understand why it resonated with so many people. I was already halfway into my 20s and therefore not in the intended demographic. Making it was a wise business decision. The next one is a story for another post
Had Tommy Lee Jones been less goofy & more serious as Two-Face, this film would likely have a much better reputation.
@@jambler15 probably
There's camp like roger moore's 70s james bond camp, and then there's the Schumacher batman films lol. These were like a live action cartoon revival of the 60s tv show
Brad Dourif as Scarecrow sounds amazing tbh
Batman Forever and The Flash are the 2 movies I have watched the most in all DC movie live action. I must have watched at least over 100 times Forever . The Flash I just watched it 7 times in movie theaters . Waiting for the disc release to watch it many times more
IDK if I'm biased because it was my first Batman movie, but I think this movie is highly underrated. Everybody acted their ass off for their characters, so much that it's like the best versions of all of them. Val Kilmer, Tommy Lee Jones, Chris O'Donnell and especially Jim Carrey killed every minute of it.
Always loved this Batman as a kid.. reminded me of the animated series
I grew up with all four of these movies. This was my favorite when I was a kid.
The yellow bat symbol is burned in my brain to the point that 1989 is modern and everything afterwards is future. My entire life is the future. 1989 was the peak of pop culture. All because of that damn advertising campaign.
Wow so much drama,and that sucks that Warner Bros screwed Robin Williams twice,I wish he played a Batman vilian,very well researched video.
I vividly remember going to see Tim Burton's "Batman" in 1989. At the time I was in the Navy and stationed at Pearl Harbor on Oahu. I saw the movie at a theater in Waikiki. There was a huge line that stretched out from the entrance and around the block. I'm the type of person that always shows up early to things, so I managed to get a place at the front of the line and was able to watch it form behind me. Good times! The movie going experience is a bit different these days, with most films being fully digital versus shot on film, but it's hard to argue with the ultra-high definition, Dolby Atmos audio experience we have today.
@@matthewdaley746 yeah, I had that reaction. I was stationed there from April of 1987 - August of 1990.
@@matthewdaley746 interesting! I didn't know that. When I was stationed in Hawaii I did visit all of the various military bases there in the course of my duties. I even had to go to Hickam AFB to pick up a prop that was used in the movie Flight of The Intruder!
This video was phenomenal good job JoBlo 👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾
I think TLJ had a problem with JC because JC was upstaging him. When both were on screen, you couldn't help but notice JC more. That's just my theory. 😊
I get the impression that TLJ was also trying to upstage JC and failing to do so. The thing is he wasn't going to succeed because 1) That acting style (being OTT comedic) doesn't actually fit Two Face very well as a character and 2) It doesn't really fit TLJs acting skills very well like it suits JC. TLJ is a good actor but he's not an OTT comedic actor. So he's trying to be someone he's not. This is why he's better in a comic book superhero movie like Captain America the First Avenger because he's actually playing to his strengths rather than trying compete with someone who's style doesn't match his.
Doesn't help that Tommy Lee Jones is pretty awful in the movie. He comes off like someone who watched Batman 89 the day before coming to set and thought that Two-Face should act like The Joker.
And that is why he couldn't sanction Jim's buffoonery lol. He's not known for being a comedic actor, and was trying to upstage one
Nice video thank you I got to relive my childhood for a min
Batman forever is a guilty pleasure
It's not even my guilty pleasure, I actually love it and belive it's a good movie.
Imagine Daniel Daylewis in either a DC or MCU movie? He'd have his pick of either studio and role.
Oh man, Thank you for this.
I would like to see thr Schumacher Cut of this movie soon! It contains deleted and altered scenes from the DVD edition.
The riddler was the best part of the movie.
Everybody who is teenager or young adukts in 1990s will always agree that this is one of the best batman. I even watched it again and again when I am old. I dont understand why people or critics hates it. This is the first Batman who have cool actions. Batman can not work in team, so Val might be too deep with his batman character.
I was around when Batman 89 came out.
The videos I seen on it takes me back to a better time
Awesome! This is what I would like to see
What I loved most was Burton’s comments on Batman Forever being a tattoo someone would get while on drugs; or when he mentioned the costume change, haha he had some points though… 😂
I wouldn't mind seeing the Schumacher cut of the film.
Release the Schumacher-Cut!!!
7:45: Billy Dee Williams in recent times, has tried to clarify or debunk the reports that he had a clause in his contract that he automatically had first dibs if you will at the Two-Face role in any future Batman sequel. You can see the video here: ua-cam.com/video/O1NXl4C9Bzs/v-deo.html Basically, according to Billy Dee, when he signed on for the 1989 Batman film, he was only signed to do one movie.
Dude it's 2023 there's no point in saying "take the franchise in a direction it may never recover from" we know about The Dark Knight lol
I see some people are STILL complaining about the nipples on the batsuit. Is that really the only problem? Take the nips off...now what's wrong with it? I say nothing was ever wrong with it to begin with but people became HYPERFOCUSED on it and decided to critique the entire movie based on an arbitrary design choice.
I agree. That's kinda weird.
15:25 the watchful guardian theme 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
Robin Williams would have been a great Riddler, but i hoped it would have been more like John Glover’s voiceover performance on the animated series. Intelligent and cunning. Jim Carrey’s portrayal was just Jim being Jim.
Yeah, it probably wouldn't be quite so campy as Carrey's was. As you said, it was just Carrey being Carrey. Nothing interesting at all. But I think the biggest flaw of this movie is simply that everyone seems to be acting for different movies. Very few seems to be acting for the same movie.
I heard Williams' version was more going to be like his characters from "Insomnia" and "One Hour Photo".
@@dhenderson1810Williams was great as a villain in The Secret Agent as well.
I would love to see Grant Morrison's take on Zur-En-Arrh Batman confront Two-Face.
Zur-En-Arrh Batman should be played by none other than Nic Cage.
I love Batman Forever. Batman Forever and The Dark Knight are my favourite Batman movies.
Batman 1989 and Batman Begins for me. Forever and B & R are my third and fourth favourite Batman films.😊
The Batman & Batman Returns for me.
I remember when this came out there were a lot of stories about how TLJ really disliked JC and there were major issues around that.
Although i thought the bat symbol was a set of teeth, this is the very first movie poster I remember. Like, ever. It was subt)e yet strong ass hell. It was perfect
"If you kill him, he wont learn nothin."
I actually really enjoy it, camp and all. Hopefully the Director's Cut will be publicly available soon as well!
I don’t think a directors cut will ever be made because the film Schumacher shot is not what he wanted
@@jimbowlan5804 There already exists a Director's cut, my friend. It was recently screened! It does need a completed score because a temp score was used but I would encourage you to look up articles on it! It's a much improved version!
@@jimbowlan5804 the directors cut exists and Kevin Smith has it
@@kyriakoschrist Kevin Smith is an idiot and probably a liar.
@@jimbowlan5804The deleted scenes are available here on UA-cam.
Imagine a Burton-cut of Batman Forever, made as a tribute to Joel Schumacher (Burton was technically involved in the project as a producer, he and Schumacher were friends and he did direct the two previous films, so there's nobody better for the job, after Schumacher's passing.
Take out as much of the silly stuff as possible, put the deleted scenes back in, reuse Danny Elfman's score (or get him to write a new one, that'd be even more awesome) and throw the digital establishing shots out and create new, less plastic-y ones. Then we just need a new title sequence (more in line with the original 2 films) and it'd be a f*cking great film, and nobody would mention it together with Batman and Robin ever again.
It wouldn't be as dark as '89 or Returns, but it'd be much closer to them in quality and style
RIP Joel Schumacher
Damn, Nicole Kidman really would've been a fantastic Poison Ivy.
When this movie came out and that had him facing the big bat. I really thought Man-bat was going to be in it. Can't say i wasn't disappointed when he wasn't in it.
The movie came out June 1995 but five months earlier the TV show Extra had the exclusive trailer shown, not a teaser but the full trailer, I dont think teaser trailers were common yet but the hype had started as a teenager five months felt like forever (no pun intended).
I fucking love this movie so much, I remember it was one of only 2 movies I had as a kid. That part where Batman is buried and then Robin shows up just in time to save him is just awesome.
Watching the glow stick fight while tripping balls is an experience too💁🏻♀️
And when he comes out of the flames right before that 🔥🦇🔥
@@nickb1729 hell yeah! This movie is a classic🤷🏻♀️
This isn't that bad and i actually agree with some of the casting choices, like Billy Dee Williams not being Two face was a a good choice
To be honest this movie is a really good Batman movie, Val Kilmer is a really good Bruce Wayne and Batman, and he has a good thing going on with the psychology of Batman, The villains were good Robin was cool and the story was pretty good to. The tone of the movie is also pretty interesting and reminds me a lot of the Lego Batman games
I love Jim Carrey, but there is a gap when you consider Robin Williams, and think that he was supposed to play the Riddler here, I can imagine him and Michael Keaton would've great on-screen chemistry and make an iconic rivalry, but we ended up with Kilmer and Carrey, what a bizarro timeline we are, oh and Tommy Lee Jones, he's great, but it seems like he didn't wanted to be there.
What was the final piece of music used here? It had a mix of Batman 89/The Dark Knight/Man of Steel? If anyone can help me out, I'd really appreciate it. Thanks.
Batman Forever was the one I grew up with as a kid. I was 8 when it came out so I was the right age for it. I loved it. I watched the first four films again a few years ago & I still enjoy it, although some of the cheese I don't like. I do like the attempts at the psychology of the character, & frankly, I love Jim Carrey & Tommy Lee Jones. They're hilarious. Warner Bros. should release Schumacher's version.
"Adjusted to 2023 rates"? I assume they mean adjusted for inflation. That phrasing is very confusing.
If you haven’t seen Fanscription’s adaptation of Batman Forever with Billy Dee Williams and Robin Williams as the villains, I absolutely implore you to spend the hour and half or so to listen to their take. Not only does it play into Batman Returns, but it expertly uses Williams as Riddler and fills in the plot holes (with decent voice acting for a lot of the dialogue).
i still want to see the schumacher cut
This was one of my favorite movies as a kid
Although it’s not as good as the burton or Nolan movies it just has something about it that makes it an enjoyable watch
I kind of dig this flick
Batman Forever is a very good Batman movie.
9:23 - CO-creator Bob Kane. Just a shoutout to Bill Finger. Love these BTS videos!
Used to watch this over and over as a kid, now I still don't think its that bad. Yes its over the top but really entertaining. It's not my favorite batman movie that's either The Batman or Batman Begins,TDK is a Joker movie.
I loved this movie as a kid. As an adult it’s nostalgic at best, plain silly at worst.
I want to see the full Batman Forever.
They definitely made it more cartoonish pretty much like the Adam West TV show
robin even says holly rusted metal at one point which is what he says in the Adam west tv show
If I was Schumacher, I would say that I was trying to do it more like the TV show. I think people would have accepted it more then.
@dhenderson1810 I agree I still thought Batman Forever was decent
Was it Schumacher who wanted it light and bright or the studio? I know WB was hesitant to go with Burton because of the McDonald's fiasco. Just curious if it was more executive's or Schumacher.
Presumably it was WB
Holy crap, can you imagine a Robin's Joker? Holy crap that would be amazing.
Check out the 2001 animated movie Batman Beyond: Return Of The Joker.😅
1:11 no bleep!!!! 😜
Wish we could have had Tim Burton's 3rd movies. The last two forget able.
Schumacher really is a talented artist
I really wish we could have seen the Wayans Robin. He would have been fantasitc!
As a child this was my favourite movie. The over the top thematics, HUGE stars playing the villains. Jim Carrey & Arnold Swartzenegger?! Goated.
arnold is in a different movie
Batman 89 is my favorite Batman movie, but I don't mind Batman Forever
Batman Forever was completely overshadowed by the awfulness of Batman & Robin unfortunately. Despite the nipples on the Batman suit, Val Kilmer was great as Batman and Bruce Wayne. Jim Carrey was a great choice to play The Riddler, despite how zany they allowed him to get. It's just unfortunate that they didnt explore these characters more. Seeing Val Kilmer train in a very serious montage to be Batman would be quite something, I think.
Batman Forever is colorful, fun and uplifting unlike the Tim Burton classic Batman. But that doesnt mean Batman Forever was bad.
The sequel on the other hand....
Batman Forever is in my top ten guilty pleasures.
I love this movie litterally the best of the old ones imo gives me a batman that reallyshows the charcter in tons of great views
Of the Batman Forever merch, the McDonald's glasses were my favorite.
Me too I hate that I lost my riddler one so much,they look so cool and are actually really good cups.
Wow this could have been a great movie. I would have loved seeing Williams as the riddler.
Williams would also have been a great Two-Face.
Why only mention Kevin Smith when it comes to the Schumaker cut and not the guy he got it from: Joe Black?
Bro... DC and WB has released Director Cuts before.
The Donner Cut of Superman 2 and Zack Snyder's Justice League were 2 fairly similar situations.
Throw us some more bones DC!
Release the Schumacher Cut of Batman Forever and the Ayer Cut of Suicide Squad!!! Pls and Ty
"OH NO! IT'S BOILING ACID!"
The villain plot was something the Mad Hatter would hatch instead of the Riddler with the blender that could read minds.
Two-Face was also pretty useless and not helped by the fact that the character was miscast. I get the impression TLJ just looked tge Nicholson's Joker and thought that's how all comic book villains act, so he'll just do that.
While we’re speaking of Val Kilmer, tell us what the F happened to the Island of Dr. Moreau.