Princess Irulan's Secret Mission | DUNE Theory & Lore
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- Опубліковано 8 тра 2023
- A discussion and examination of the evidence supporting a theory revolving around the character of Princess Irulan, the daughter of Emperor Shaddam Corrino IV, and a potential Secret Mission she could undertake during the events of Dune.
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I stan the 2 Syfy Dune series as best portrayal of the DUNE series 'story' details and Irulan was front center in both so I don't mind this version of upping her use and presence. I like this DUNE version's expansive universe spirit and energy and larger than life epic cinematography.
Are you trolling us by saying Villanueva?
Irulan always seemed like a more complex character that could have had a deeper back story
Irulan is a character that is underdeveloped in the Dune books. Comparing her with deep and intricate female characters such as Lady Jessica, her role is mainly auxiliary. I loved how the Dune miniseries expanded her character's arc and plots, but in the parts adapting Dune Messiah and Children of Dune.
I think that an expansion and development of Irulan is always welcome in an adaptation. But I have my doubts if this can be done within Dune part 2 film, as it would differ too much to the source material.
She is the chronicler of the Dune books surrounding this timeline, a brilliant historian and she plays a huge role with Paul's children. Her character is fine.
Same here. She is one of my favorites in sci-fi. An inspiration as well due to her scholarship, her experiences and how there's more to her than meets the eye. There is a silent strength in her which also proves the pen is mightier than the sword. Her writings and books helped preserve the legacy of her neglectful husband and the family she was tied and then felt herself obligated to, and while I love this jewel of a saga, I always felt she (like Alia) got the short end of the stick and is not valued enough.
@@hackintosh3899 true but still, we don't even know if she ever returned to the BG or had children; let alone who the father would be. What we'd have given to have more books by Frank, himself, on the time skips instead of his son and his friend that writes star wars fan fiction
So what did you think of her character in part two?
TBH, I'm not certain that Irulan would be so concerned with her father's continued rule as she would be with maintaining the Bene Gesserit goal of placing one of their own on the Lion Throne. Whilst on the face of it, Shaddam IV's conspiracy with the Harkonnens to discredit and then destroy House Atreides appeared to be a necessary thing, Irulan and the rest of the Sisterhood could see just how perilous it would be to their plans if matters didn't proceed exactly as they needed.
The Bene Gesserit desperately wanted to preserve the Atreides bloodline for what it contained: they needed Paul alive but in no position to challenge the Emperor for the throne. They knew better than anyone that such a challenge would result either the death of Paul and the loss of his genes to their programme, or the loss of the Lion Throne, as Paul would marry Irulan or one of her sisters, and take the throne for himself. The society in the Dune-iverse is definitely male dominated- that's why Irulan's mother was ordered to bear only daughters to the Emperor. Any son would automatically inherit the throne over his older sisters. The only way Irulan could claim uncontested inheritance was to ascend the throne after her father's death or abdication, unmarried. Whether she could then issue an imperial decree stating that she would remain in power even after marrying is moot, as the most ruinous outcome of the Arrakis situation the Bene Gesserit could think of was what eventually happened.
This Dunatic gets it.💯
Digging your videos and your vibe. Gonna stick with you to handle the hype. I'm simultaneously listening to the books again(my eyes are bad now)and studying the lore. I do a Dune deep dive every few years and it's nice to have people joining me!
Agreed on the videos and the vibe! Some of my favorite dune content. 🙌
Thank the maker for the gift of audiobooks!
Having Princess Irulan as an active character in the story is a good stretch. in the first book, there were her writings but otherwise, she was included act just as an observer in the court at the end and did not come alive until Dune Messiah.
Great breakdown. Irulan remains a personal favorite of mine. She is underrated. A highly intelligent individual whose silent strength isn't well developed. Like Alia, she osnt appreciated enough and often gets the short end of the stick. Her writings did help with the family she was tied with and then felt obligated to. I hope Denis doesnt just bash Irulan to enhance Chani but does her justice
Well that was a good breakdown I personally love the Irulan that was in the Sci FI channels Frank Herbert's Dune. She was inquisitive and performed a investigation on the overthrow of the and everyone involved and I really loved how she confronted her father Julie Cox did a wonderful job even if everything was in the books.
Interesting theory! Princess Irulan does say “What if Paul Atreides were still alive?”. Does she know of her father's involvement with the fall of House Atreides at this point? Maybe her curiosity does drive her to Arrakis to find out who is this Muad'Dib that's causing so much trouble, or maybe she finds out about him by interrogating Shishakli.
I sort of have mixed feelings, but being different medium in which to tell the story presents a lot of challenges. I have faith that whatever Denis decides to do, it’s going to be a good and I’m here for the ride.
Thank you for the video, Nerd Cookies! (I miss your original intro 😞) Princess Irulan seemed like a tragic character to me when I think back on the 2000 Sci-Fi mini-series, since she officially took Paul Atreides' name, but it was Chani who he called "wife", and one wonders how lonely she felt after that. ---And I still can't believe that it was the half-assed-at-best Sci-Fi network that hosted that excellent mini-series.
I think its more along the lines that’s she’s suspicious as to what really happened on Arrakis with House Atreides. Because the Emperor’s involvement was suppose to be secret. She may want to meet with Paul and is sympathetic to his cause. At first anyway. So, maybe she seeks an alliance with him. And if that’s armor, it’s terrible. I thought she just liked wearing funny things on her head..
i think the armor is like the bene gesserits': intimidating fashion more than function.
The voice is back to normal. Oddly satisfying. Awesome
I think your theory may be correct. In the trailer she is talking to a cloaked figure when she asks "What if Paul Atreides is still alive?" that many believe to be her father, but I am leaning towards that actually being The reverend mother Helen. And maybe the reverend mother is going to encourage Irulans trip to Arrakis but idk, we'll just have to wait and see
I always felt like Herbert wasted Irulan's potential in the books. I definitely wouldn't mind her role being significantly expanded compared to the book canon and it would make her character more interesting if done well (and I'm currently quite confident that Denis won't fail in this endeavor).
Same with Rabban... It required a Brian Herbert to give him an actual importance
I have no problem with expanding her role. Your theory fits with her character. Also the Sci-Fi Channel did a similar thing with her.
Agreed. And would be a waste to caste Pugh just to have her for the final scene
"History will say the Fremen were about to receive their Messiah. But Paul Atreides would unleash his revenge. The saga of Dune is from over". I loved her expanded role in the Dune and children of dune miniseries. Julie Cox was great :)
The Golden Path, Kralizec, The spice must flow :) long live the fighters.
Interesting theory, but I have a few objections.
1. The "armored" coif shown would be totally ineffective as armor. It is ceremonial or decorative, not functional.
2. From the book we never saw her move outside of the Emperor's presence until after Paul-Muad Dib took her as wife.
3. Again, from the book, Irulan was educated and perceptive, but was not demonstrated to be as capable as the theory you propose would require.
I don't mind some new things, but I'm unsure how I feel about Irulan having too active a role. Even with being Bene Gesrit trained, I find it highly unlikely that the eldest daughter, who needs to be married off to cement alliances and, essentially, that match chooses the next emperor, would be allowed to go off to a hostile planet. Her capture would result in blackmail, as the emperor was supposed to remain neutral, and extortion of funds or power in the Laandsrad.
The meeting of the Reverend Mother and the Baron in the first movie at least had implications from the novel as the Baron talks about having to be able to not lie to "the witch" that he did not order Jessica or Paul killed.
Hell yeah !!! Please do another video about Irulan.
The picture looks like Lady Jessica on her knees
That's Shishakli
Im trying not to get too into speculation for the second Dune film as I dont want to spoil any of it for myself.........but the evidence is there. Those people who make the trailers sure know how to tease their fans !!!! Great video, thanks for sharing 🙂
Love the new intro music!
I can see why Irulan is given an expanded role as you probably wouldn't want to hire Florence Pugh and only have them appear at the end of the film. I wonder if Irulan's investigation is what leads in the Sardaukar locating and attacking the Palmaries of the South?
Occam's razor - The simplest explanation is usually the best one.
Bene Gesserit
Cheers.
The only thing that i can say here
Is that the shot of the armored face of irulan is a beautiful painting of Davinci..in 50000 year from now ..
unless it gets explained away as "futuristic armor" all those dangly bits make me think the "armor" isn't really armor but just decorative. but who knows.
I think this only makes sense to flesh out her backstory if we're going to see Dune Messiah get adapted as well... so I'm excited for this.
I heard that's the plan but we're gonna have to wait awhile because Denis wants to use the same actors without artificially aging them.
In the Dune 2000 Miniseries , we see Irulan taking matters into her own hands to find out more about the Atreides. She goes to Geidi Prime and has a tryst with Feyd to determine if exactly the Atreides were killed or left in the dessert. When given a vague answer, she suspects more and more that Paul has survived.
Perhaps in Part 2 Irulan will do something similar?
Please no, I think that was so off-character from Irulan. Though I didn't read Dune Messiah or Children of Dune (where, as I know Irulan becomes more important character), I still can't imagine Irulan as a Margot-type seducer. As I know she even didn't got anything from his husband, Paul.
@@sectorgovernor I don’t remember all the books but I don’t recall it saying that Ireland died a virgin.
@@padawanmage71 I don't know it either..
Even without truthsense, Irulan would still be an extremely capable interviewer as a Bene Gesserit. I'd love to see her character fleshed out more in this way, I hope you're right!
Irulan's chainmail coif appears more ornamental than practical, leading me to believe that it is jewelry meant to invoke the image of armor. And we know that with the way that trailers are edited the apparent juxtaposition of Irulan in the coif with the Fremen prisoner may be simple misdirection.
Great analysis and theory! It's always interesting when they try to make Irulan more active than she was in the books, and I think your theory makes a lot of sense, and helps me maybe understand those glimpses in the most recent trailer as well. Thank you!
That was great, thank you.
Nerd Cookies knows her Dune-averse lore!
I think you are over thinking the design. It's possible it's towards the end of the book when the Emperor has arrived to investigate Raban's mismanagement of the fiefdom. I think the Fremen is being being interrogated prior to Allia's entrance. A truthsayer would be needed which would set up Alia freaking out Mohiam.
Irulan is a low ranking Bene Gesserit. I doubt if she has truthsayer skills.
It would be interesting to see a story of an alliance between the remaining houses against house atreides , like the dark version of the Rebel alliance.
The 2000 mini-series also expanded Irulan's role as well.
Love your content!!! Miss your intro😢
I miss my old intro too. But I can't get it back unless I doxx myself. UA-cam has a flawed copyright claim system
Makes sense to me that she would infer that Paul and Muadib were one and the same. She would be familiar with the Missionaria Protectiva and that Muadib was the son of a Bene Gesserit. It is easy to connect the dots in such a case.
Interesting theory, we are sure to find out in November. Looks to me, like she is trying to gets Feyd's attention...so we shall see.
Where is this art from!?! So sick
So Princess Irulan will basically be playing Sherlock Holmes on Arrakis!
My favorite channel on the"tube". Awesome video to you and your team.
I really hope he doesn't go overboard with alternate plotlines. I would lose a huge chunk of my respect for Denis.
As much as I love Florence Pugh, Irulan should be relegated to the sidelines as is her fate with regards to her marriage to Paul.
I'm interested in seeing what they do with her. But I'm also more interested in seeing Alia
Yes, thank you! If they shortchange Alia, it's all over for me. Where is Saint Alia?
Great video as always, I really like your read and the reasons presented for it. I also agree fully that it would be in alignment with Irulan’s character. Keep kicking butt!
🍪👹👍
This could be done in a similar way to how it was in the miniseries.
Any details on Alia in Dune part 2?
Thank you! Alia or I'm tossing my Part 1.
Is Irulan's loyalty to the Bnei Gesserit greater than her loyalty to her father? Or do the interests of the Sisterhood and the Emperor conincide when it comes to Paul?
As a trained Bene Gesserit, and member of The Sisterhood, would not Irulan's highest duty be to The Sisterhood? It seems that she would obey The Sisterhood, even as cost to her father. My guess is that her secret mission would not be for herself, but at the direction of the Bene Gesserit who are fully aware of what she is doing. I suspect The Sisterhood secretly sent her there to find out more about new threats to their Kwisatz Haderach plans. Her orders must have been salvaged whatever could for the long-term plans of the Bennett Gesserit, whether it cost her father or not. wWho would agree with that?
She cant have a secret agenda because she has not the blood line witch Paul cant see, Pauls Sight is that he sees every timeline ( Multiverse ) and relives everyone of these non stop.
In addition to what you’ve proposed I believe she is the sisterhood back up to replace Paul, look at the bloodlines, training, etc. How about it?
However, Irulan's proclivities in wearing doilies for her wardrobe does tend to diminish her "Imperial Presence". 😮🤣🐶
*1:41** to quote (or paraphrase) from another book and beloved franchise...he's only mostly dead...which is slightly alive...and much preferable to being all dead...at least for the one who was assumed to be all dead in the first place and possibly a great annoyance to those who wish it upon him in the first place*
Makes me think of the RLM Star Wars ROS video. “No one’s ever really gone” 😂😂
If he's all dead, all you can do is go through his pockets for loose spice.
@@CantankerousDave *my thoughts exactly*
They will be Sardaukar The Emperor
Would not trust his daughter with the inferior Harkkonen soldiery…
that is one stupid head wear for a princess to wear in a harsh dune world
"Where is Saint Alia?"
I've been wondering the same thing.
By designing the missionaria protectiva religious engineering, shouldn't the bene gesserit be clearly aware of Paul's survival as soon as the news of a rising messiah figure in arrakis starts spreading?
I'm not sure that is armour. It looks more like a decorative item made of precious metals. Precious metals are softer than plain steel. Too shiny to be plain steel or whatever that universes analog is. It looks more like a fancy headscarf/diadem type thing. A status thing. Cheers for the vid.
It was none of your speculation not to mention they use malee weapons and the weak points in what is not her armor would kill her worse than wearing a energy shield
I'm confused about what she is wearing. Metal. Disguises sure, but what she is wearing would attract attention imo
I think it's more about protection from darts and pistols in the desert.
@@NerdCookies perhaps yes .
I think Irulan would be more into political intrigue. I cannot imagine her playing action hero and her father would not allow that, but he would allow her to manipulate the royal court.
Her going to Arrakis to investigate what's going on with spice production or to find out who's Muad'Dib is political intrigue, not playing action hero.
@@brotherjohnnyxXxX If you are emperor, are you going to let your daughter find out who is the leader of a band of murderous criminals? The Fremen are viewed as savage outlaws.
I don't remember this character in the first book.
They really did a decent job of respecting the source material in the first movie.
Turning a bookish member of the royal family into a super powered ninja on a secret mission seems like a stark departure from the book.
I will wait for the movie, but this news didn't fill me with hope.
Do you often exaggerate things you disagree with?!
Thank you NerdCookies for your speculations about princess Irulan in Dune 2. But, if this is true, why change or embellish the original Dune story? I noticed they've cast the part of Lady Margot Fenring but not her husband Hasimir. I accepted the switching of the character Liet Kynes to a female, but if, and that's a very speculative if, this film is going to continue to change up the story for intersectional feminism, then the trend is very troubling. What's next, the Children of Dune story is made into a movie where Ghanima envelops herself with sandtrout to become later Empress of Dune? It's funny how those who criticize BH/KJA because they don't follow what they consider to be canon in their expanded Dune universe novels are willing to put up with changes to Frank Herbert's original source material in film.
Tim Blake Nelson has been cast in an as-yet-unspecified role that many believe is likely to be Hasimir
Solid Theory
we can nitpick this to death... all I ask is that Denis remember melange is also psychoactive and make part 2 significantly more psychedelic 🤚🔮🧿
Doubt it....
nO oNe’S eVeR rEaLLy gOnE
Do we have to inflate the importance of every tertiary character, or just the women?
that is a very nice idea, just like they did in the miniseries, which might happen, but i'll give my 2 cents about the chained dress
SPOILER
if i know my chicken well,DV loves some in your face symbolism so, i'd say that it's a scene at the end, when paul takes her
Thanks Elaine.. in children of Dune a freman was wearing chainmail under his robes . ( armour)
I don't give a shit about Irulan being given a bigger part in the movie - I want to see Paul, the navigators, the main characters more than some Mary Sue BS
A Mary Sue is a type of female character who is depicted as unrealistically lacking in flaws or weaknesses. How is Irulan a Mary Sue?! Don't worry, you'll get to see Paul and other main characters, like Princess Irulan and Lady Jessica. Guild Navigators?! Not so sure about that.
I wish they would stick to telling the story from the books. Every change they make diminishes from Herbert's masterpiece. It's like drawing a mustache on the Mona Lisa.
Villeneuve is using the book as a template to paint a new masterpiece.
Wtf are you talking about, the first was completely book accurate and the 2nd isn't even out yet
I wish the same. Where is Saint Alia?!
@@globesurfer122 You need to brush up on your reading skills if you think the first movie was completely book accurate.
She never graduated from her bene gesserit training so I personally don’t believe she’d have abilities similar to a reverend mother, also in later novels she is treated as a sort of “dumb” person cause she misses a lot of things that Jessica and Alia pick up on in conversations. But still I do think she’d kinda investigate Paul but I highly doubt she’d have anything even remotely close to Truthsayer abilities
Anything that allows more of Florence Pugh in the Duniverse!
In Dune Messiah, the RevMo describes Irulan as very sexually attractive and a "whining shrew". So, yeah, Denis is changing the character quite a bit.
Yeah. She's flat. Emma mackey would've been better
I couldn't stand Princess Irulan in the books! I was always thinking why does she have to be around when everybody knows she's plotting against Paul.
The book only has like 30 pages of the war and it m's super lame so as long as the movie fixes that the movie can do anything it wants with the princess
Florence Pugh is the perfect actress to add more depth to Princess Irulan
Does anyone think that the recent Dune is overrated? I hated their depiction of Jessica. Their Harkonnen were also boring.
These guys are adding pointless plot points and threads to what is already a complex story and you’re making excuses for them
Nope, she's speculating about what could be happening in that particular scene.
@@brotherjohnnyxXxX that’s even worse
This adaptation does not have the feelings, that you are basing your opinions on. the SyFy Channel version was FAR Better than this dribble.
is that good or bad
Princess Irulan was yet another wrong casting choice. Irulan was supposed to be breathtakingly gorgeous.
Some of us think that Florence Pugh is breathtakingly gorgeous.
Youve got a touch of main character syndrome , just because you dont find someone breathtaking doesnt mean others feel the same , get over yourself !