I think most social media platforms need more transparency on how they administer bans. With the influence these platforms have in our culture, it's vital to be fair and consistent with their policies. You can't do that without transparency.
People don’t want to be honest about how much influence these platforms have. The most simple solution to me would be to once and for all classify them as either (1) a publisher, wherein they are responsible for ALL of the content on their platform; or (2) a utility, wherein they are providing a service to content creators and are not responsible for the content on their platform (like a telephone service or internet provider)… right now they are trying to play both sides. The worst part is that because they are so blatantly ideologically selective, one side of the political spectrum is pretending that these gate-keepers aren’t wielding an insane amount of political power
I love how you always humanize the subject at the end of your vid’s dealing with people and individuals. You talk so constructively and objectively about the meta analysis but still realize the human aspect of it all. Helps to enlighten those viewers to realize that these are still PEOPLE dealing with these issues and that, as with everything, it is impossible to hold individuals to such an unreasonably high standard. The fault is not with the individual but rather with how a situation is handled by the bigger entity: Twitch.
I'm really not a fan of Destiny (some of his takes absolutely go against my personal ethics) but these instant permabans have always seemed like an incredibly ignorant and heavy-handed move that is usually more harmful than good for the platform. Their entire ban system is just so incredibly outdated for a site of this size.
@@Caiser I don't think he is actually pro-incest but he likes to talk about it because it shows how people get their ethical positions. He says that most of the time people get their ethical positions two ways. One way is from a group they belong to (ie. Dem or Republican) like if you were a Democrat if you were asked what you think about free healthcare you might roll back to what you have heard people in your community say about it. Another way is based on an initial reaction like how some people think eating shit is unethical based on an initial reaction of disgust they feel when looking at or thinking about eating shit. He says that most people think that pro-incest is immoral based on initial reaction and when people argue with him about it their arguments usually fall back on this. However he himself is anti-incest and has argued that many times but he thinks that it is important to talk about it because it shows how people get their ethical positions and has real applications like how some people will say homosexuality is immoral and once you go through all their arguments it will fall back on initial reaction.
34:00 Even the best behaved streamers will make a mistake at some point and get banned, Twitch should encourage correcting the situation or educating the streamers instead of just removing assets from their platform. Prevent instead of punish.
Yeah they seem to always pick the wrong choice. Occasionally there should be cases where they should punish and they don't, and vice versa. You'd think they'd get it right on accident at least occasionally lmao
I've been on twitch for over ten years, so hearing more details about how things operate was pretty insightful, but I came here hoping for what you said during the last 8ish minutes and you did not disappoint. The most tragic thing to lose with Destiny is the opportunity to have a space for partially outrageous ideas and opinions, so they can be openly challenged and actually get people away from in my opinion dangerous extremes. It's incredibly rare to find someone on the internet who can live with the consequences of this type of format and still keep their composure and rationality. Especially over so many years.
For those scared to multiteam as an affiliate on twitch: Twitch in truth does not care about affiliates. You can get away with multistreaming as an affiliate because twitch dont care about you until you reach partner level and even then they still might not care about you unless you bring in the big cash. Twitch HAS NEVER enforced multistreaming at an affiliate level. Twitch only care about enforcing exclusivity when you reach partner level. Devin mentioned this in his affiliate video If i recall. if Devin sees this comment then maybe he can correct me if im wrong.
Example, the export button. The exclusivity clause has been in effect for literal years now and STILL the export button does NOT reflect that. If they actually cared they'd make it so it was inactive for 24 hours after a cast ends. It wouldn't stop someone from just recording while broadcasting and putting it elsewhere or multistreaming from the get go, but it'd at least reflect the intent of the contract.
What you are describing is due to a lack of enforcement/resources, that could be changed at any point without an actual policy change. Especially true if an affiliate is has an abnormally high viewer base
I'm wondering about the actual legality of the affiliate contract, twitch is just taking 50% of your earnings and on top of that they think this is a good enough offer to restrict you exclusively to them, it shouldn't be okay anymore for a giant corporation to exploit their "workers" like an mlm
@@DamienCloud twitch doesn’t have any moral obligation to let a specific individual stream outside of protected status, I don’t see what you mean I guess? I think the only argument that could be made is that social media is the “new public square”, but expanding that to a gaming website seems like a stretch, unless I’m missing something?
@@calvinwilson3617 Every broadcaster needs to figure out the risk/reward scenario for themselves. Personally I think it would be worth it as most affiliates are on the grind. But if you do get an abnormally high amount of viewers as an affiliate and Twitch takes action on you it could get covered as if you were a T1 influencer which could indirectly help. Alot of broadcasters, including big ones like Asmongold, have come back from suspensions/bans bigger than they were beforehand.
was here at the 22 minute mark and this was very interesting to listen to. I will say as a 30 viewer andy who likes to invite people on to chat about all kinds of subjects. seeing destiny get banned for having an opinion and being lambasted for taking the "publicly" unpopular opinion was scary. its made me really question my position on twitch long term. I am in complete agreement that the only correct way of getting rid of bad opinions is to give people a place to have those opinions and being willing to discuss them and convince them otherwise. ostracizing only emboldens not just that person but people who agree with that person who have not been ostracized yet.
What if you actually are the one with bad opinions? And twitch is banning to protect the bad opinions.. you frame it that bad opinions are being ostracized when it looks more like accurate but offensive opinions are being banned.. I just think your framing is adorable
It just shows how big tech is becoming the new world wide gouvernement that does whatever it wants and isn´t elected. Essentially total control with zero oversight. People seem to not understand that platforms like FB,Twitter,Twitch,YT and so on are EXACTLY like the market place of the middle ages. The place people talk about everyday shit. However since the internet is owned by companies not the state(an institution of the people) it fucks up all the freedom people once had in such places.
@Spinexus Well, considering they aren't even marketplaces, I think we can safely say they are not like medeival markets. There is nothing like a government, just sales for these companies with twitch being bad at it.
It’s pretty rare I sit down and watch a full nearly 50 minute video from a creator I’ve never seen before about a streamer I don’t really follow. Love the way you made it accessible for those who don’t watch Destiny & the focus on the business aspect of it.
mrgirl's ban was similar. didn't even get a reason. I hate how twitch is creating a chilling effect around any potentially contentious or controversial discussion. Edit: made it to 22mins. hi.
Twitch trying to ban/unparnter all lolcow streamers like dspgaming, wingsofredemption , ice poseidon, bathrobe_dawne, britney venti , lowtirgod , dellor , mrgirl , Ethan ralph and another 70 people.
@@kingporo A person whose eccentric or foolish behaviour can be exploited to amuse onlookers. ... they normally end up on kiwi farms by other crazy viewers
Why wouldn't Twitch just add a "Controversial" checkbox when you start each stream, similar to UA-cam's "Made For Kids" thing and allow streamers to self-report and demonetize themselves for specific streams? Destiny would've glady self-policed and labelled a conversation about trans people as controversial, I'm guessing.
The only reason UA-cam has the "made for kids" thing is because the government scared them into doing it. In spite what the majority wants to think, social "platforms" do not care about their users or creators. They [Twitch, Facebook, Twitter, etc] only care about the money they can get by selling their users to advertisers. They don't care about you. You are a number, and making changes costs money and takes effort. The lazy, greedy fucks will never do anything unless forced.
@@Razerfreak1 Exactly. And accepting that it's "controversial" concedes how we ought to talk about something to ideologs that can't carry their ideas through actual discussions.
22 Minute Gang. Thanks for the insightful video Devin! The difference in ad targeting on YT vs Twitch is a really interesting point and helps explain some of Twitch’s recent decisions.
Hey, Devin. Here @ the 22 minute mark. Love your content. Every time I see one of your videos, I'm like, 'I'll watch that for a few minutes...', and then, "BOOM!" I've just spent about an hour watching a video that, at the beginning, I only had a passing interest in. Not only was I entertained, but I leave your videos feeling like I actually learned something. So, thank you, and keep doing what you're doing.👍
Yeah got to 22mins red line is half way bud. Great content. I like the explanations of how bans can work depending on the revenue different platforms and why that didn't apply to this case.
Your take at the end is very well said, you could've thrown down the gauntlet but you chose your words very carefully and articulated your point well. In a world where there is information being thrown around all over the place, sometimes people will have a wrong take and that is normally due to a lack of information or understanding, not giving people a chance to understand, learn and grow. With how things are going going I feel we'll hit a tipping point where we'll get to and realise we have a decision to make, continue the way we are and become increasingly polarised in our opinion, or realise people can be wrong and as long as are willing to learn where they made mistakes and grow from it and they can redeem themselves. Love your advocacy in being on the side of listening to people and hear their side and want to work things out. Nice work Devin. :)
Twenty-two minute crew! Thank you for your insight on the objectivity of business when it comes to bans; we get lost in the weeds of emotions and "drama", for lack of a better term, when it comes to these kinds of things. I've been in the HR field for many years, and as an HR officer, there are so many laws and regulations that make it hard to be fully transparent with the public without opening an institution up for legal implications and ramifications. Very cool to see this perspective shared!
Thanks for the perspective, Devin. This feels like rehash of previous videos you have made, however I still get value from it! Not sure how to explain it but thanks again.
This isn't super relevant to the larger picture, but the way you say at around 24 minutes how easy it is to get affiliate... I truly think it should be much harder to reach affiliate or get rid of it altogether. Maybe give some of the basic features to everyone, period, so that this whole "race to the bottom" would be less of a thing. Because for example, ever since emote slots were unlockable, with small streamers you can see they all do the same kinds of things. Affiliate and anything that comes with it only homogenizes Twitch as a platform.
22 min gang, excellent video Devin I know these videos don’t get the numbers they should but they are so important to give us perspective. TLDR good shit man keep it up
22 minute mark achieved. Your content is interesting and informative. I typically watch to the end. Thank you for sharing your insightful thoughts with us.
@@s.d.g.global4582 they have gotten insight about aspects of twitch and companies in general that they most likely wouldn't have gotten if they didn't watch this.
Thank you for discussing this topic from a very professional level. And I say that purely from the perspective of being a person that LOVES discussing things deeply and thouroughly and letting other perspectives be shone as long it is done in a respactable manner. Now the respect is where discussions fall apart because the majority of people have no idea what a discussion actually IS and just want to be right I’ll be honest. I can't even remember what kind of videos you made when I first subbed, but I love the seeing evolution and most of all, seeing your integrity in action. Integrity is soo rare. I value it extremly highly when I see it in a content creator Lots of love bro
We’re making cable TV on Twitch, literally feels like Adult Swim turning into Disney XD. Feels like i’m looking at PG IcePoseidon when i surf through OTV or OTK content, we got reality TV being fed when people who are actually true to themselves are being banned which was originally what we got drawn into twitch in the first place.
@@joaquin5028 those people are unhinged, hampton brandon and andys made it so toxic. I liked laughing at the content back then but hell, i do not want to see them back so no, i don’t want Cx back lol
So what is your explanation of Amouranth beign banned MULTIPLE times for ToS violations and CONTINUES to be allowed to coem back to do it again... constantly.
40:00 I totally share your worries. Thanks for speaking about it in this video as well. It is a general problem that bothers me as it seems to creep in more and more even into groups I agreed with, that I think were aiming for commendable things, but mroe and more trying to reach them by unwittingly repeating the behaviours they wanted to overcome.
Hey Devin, when Destiny got de-partnered earlier in this timeline, it was bittersweet for me as I was disappointed by it, but also excited to see what multi streaming could do for the DGG community, and slowly it had turned into something really cool, felt like even if I haven’t seen you two interact in like 3-4 years, that the advice in your videos that apply to all us small creators was instantly validated for me the minute Destiny was pulling more and more viewership and growth on his new multi streaming setup. I felt the spirit of your advice and care for the streamers you represent as well as advice and care for your friendships in this space really shine through. This time it’s rougher, and I would have never expected that we’re now in a world where 11 years of your life can be spent growing the twitch sphere, building long lasting friendships, only to have essentially everything pulled out from underneath you, and all these decade long friends can’t interact with you anymore due to these archaic streamer hostage exclusivity deals on twitch. Instantly all your connections disappear in a professional sense, I can’t imagine a harder timeline for a content creator to live in, ESPECIALLY ONE who’s content is predominately interacting with and boosting other creators. Sad days, but it warmed my heart a lot to see you talk about this and share your opinions, I acknowledge I’m bias in favour of destiny and agree with you 100%. But still, just warms my heart. Keep providing amazing content Devin.❤️
Maybe I misunderstood your point but Exclusivity deals don't mean you cannot interact or appear on other people's streams. Rae and Ludwig do it all the time, and their Twitch friends go over to collab on their UA-cam Streams as well. Only Permabans like the case of Dr. Disrespect disallow you from appearing on other people's streams on a platform.
@@philaeew4866 You’re not wrong, I tried to specify on a professional level, as in Destiny’s case, a huge portion of his content was joining panel shows which where hosted by other creators on their twitch respective twitch channels, and as per the fact that Destiny is permabanned, if he were to jump in on a panel show on twitch, it would be seen as ban evasion by twitch. :/
@@philaeew4866 AHHH you know what, I didn’t word it properly, I see where I messed up here, the exclusivity deal isn’t by itself the reason they can’t interact with each other, it’s the fact that these people have those contracts so they don’t have a presence on any other platforms, which in essence makes it so that they are dependant on twitch as their only platform, it’s a new dissuading factor from talking to Destiny now as they would have to turn off stream to do so. Sorry for my terrible explanations!! 😅
with the prominence of PC culture, this doesn't surprise me. its a slippery slope and we're moving down it. i stopped watching destiny years ago as my opinions dissented from his too strongly over the course of him going deeper and deeper into politics. however, i feel the platform needs creators like him, regardless of my opinions, to have a place for people to discuss, debate, and explore topics. shit sucks, but what can we do except watch it happen.
Made it to the 22 minute mark! Speaking of targeted ads on youtube, this the first video I've ever gotten an intestinal cleanse advertisement on. Weird pick from the algorithm. Any chance you release the audio from these long chats as a podcast? I usually like to just listen to them while I work, and I can't turn my phone screen off to save power because it'll stops playing. You narrate your points well enough that the visuals aren't a necessity. I enjoy your content, thank you for continuing to put it out.
I will come back to finish this but i have to go to bed, i do have a question. Why not just settle it behind board and payout the contract rather than risk the lawsuit?
do you mean affiilates can literally not broadcast at the exact same time or can an affiliate do a stream on twitch and end that one and do a stream on youtube?
I made it to the 20m mark Devin! I was wondering why you weren't making videos so long and realized I never subbed on my 2nd device/account, whoops. Going to try to catch up on backlog.
22 minute mark. I have been an affiliate and every time I get a payout I debated dropping it. Two questions though: if I left mid cycle, would I get whatever money was coming to me? And do they broadcast ads on non affiliate channels?
Here at 22 minutes and I for one would love to see devin’s desktop (presumably) full of a bunch of insanely long notes. Probably could give a phenomenal course on everything there. Oh yea, that’s basically just his UA-cam. Thank you Devin, this videos are an awesome resource especially for someone like me who wants to work my way up the streaming ladder :)
Late to the vid but hopefully you may see this. General curiosity concerning the exclusive streaming:. How does critical roll get around that policy? Since they air their Thursday night stream on twitch and UA-cam now at the same time.
I always appreciate and respect your view on the business of content creation. Thanks for the work you put into these long form videos and providing a knowledgeable aspect from inside the industry itself.
Coming to this pretty late, but want to say I really appreciate you sharing this information and your perspective. You present things while maintaining a very professional and agreeable demeanor. Thanks.
At 22m I find myself wondering: wouldn't it be better for an organisation, in terms of deterring others from engaging in similar actions, to be transparent with the reason for the bans? In any case, on to the next 25 minutes.
Devon! Made it to "that point" and I really appreciate your hard work. You bring a sensible and well learned point of view to the table and your insight is very valuable. Keep up the good work.
22 minute algorithm impact. But memes aside I do always enjoy your videos and am a chronic lurker and rarely comment for anything. Keep up the thoughtful content.
At the 22 minute mark and this is all very informative. TBH at this point I'd never ever start streaming on Twitch...or even consider it until I am a larger creator in general.
Yeah I only use twitch to record long videos so I could edit it later on UA-cam because I don’t have capture card, not going to even try to gain a following there, don’t want them knowing who I am and Perma ban me.
@jim 😂 I suck, I posted and deleted my first few because I didn’t like em still learning how to do UA-cam, twitch was where I tried first, just wasn’t working.
No one is connecting pre-roll or ad breaks to the actual content creator. So I doubt brands are holding back due to individual content creators on twitch. I also question the statment of tiktok "eclipsing" twitch in streaming non-gaming. Tiktok has a massive daily active user base yes but how many of them are watching live streams and for how long?
you're great, great video as always, amazing responsibility in explaining the biases that you have, and i don't know who else could've said it, and as well as you have said it
I feel even those "just chatting" numbers are skewed. If you look in the category itself on Twitch, you will see top streamers playing certain video games, drawing art, etc. It's the streamer mis-labeling their streams.
A friend directed me here and it was extremely insightful. Not being familiar with Destiny, I don't have an informed opinion on his ban but given the seniority in time spent dedicated to Twitch you'd hope more care would go into these decisions. Twitch may also be trying to make a point that they don't hold favorites, though as well I suppose. As an affiliate on the platform, I know one of our other biggest gripes is the significant cut of revenue Twitch takes. Not sure yet if you have anything on that but I'm going to take a search and see. Oh, and 22 minute CTA gang
I think most social media platforms need more transparency on how they administer bans. With the influence these platforms have in our culture, it's vital to be fair and consistent with their policies. You can't do that without transparency.
People don’t want to be honest about how much influence these platforms have. The most simple solution to me would be to once and for all classify them as either (1) a publisher, wherein they are responsible for ALL of the content on their platform; or (2) a utility, wherein they are providing a service to content creators and are not responsible for the content on their platform (like a telephone service or internet provider)…
right now they are trying to play both sides. The worst part is that because they are so blatantly ideologically selective, one side of the political spectrum is pretending that these gate-keepers aren’t wielding an insane amount of political power
@@D3ckstr bingo
yeah maybe make the mods who issue the ban public
I love how you always humanize the subject at the end of your vid’s dealing with people and individuals. You talk so constructively and objectively about the meta analysis but still realize the human aspect of it all. Helps to enlighten those viewers to realize that these are still PEOPLE dealing with these issues and that, as with everything, it is impossible to hold individuals to such an unreasonably high standard. The fault is not with the individual but rather with how a situation is handled by the bigger entity: Twitch.
I'm really not a fan of Destiny (some of his takes absolutely go against my personal ethics) but these instant permabans have always seemed like an incredibly ignorant and heavy-handed move that is usually more harmful than good for the platform. Their entire ban system is just so incredibly outdated for a site of this size.
you must have crazy personal ethics im conservative and disagree with destiny all the time and i wouldnt even say that about him lol
it's not instant.. he's had several bans before. so this was not a one and done. gotta pay attention tot he article int he video
@@lafondawilliams some of Destiny's takes including his pro-incest take goes against most people personal ethics
sioyyyyyyy
@@Caiser
I don't think he is actually pro-incest but he likes to talk about it because it shows how people get their ethical positions.
He says that most of the time people get their ethical positions two ways.
One way is from a group they belong to (ie. Dem or Republican) like if you were a Democrat if you were asked what you think about free healthcare you might roll back to what you have heard people in your community say about it.
Another way is based on an initial reaction like how some people think eating shit is unethical based on an initial reaction of disgust they feel when looking at or thinking about eating shit.
He says that most people think that pro-incest is immoral based on initial reaction and when people argue with him about it their arguments usually fall back on this.
However he himself is anti-incest and has argued that many times but he thinks that it is important to talk about it because it shows how people get their ethical positions and has real applications like how some people will say homosexuality is immoral and once you go through all their arguments it will fall back on initial reaction.
34:00 Even the best behaved streamers will make a mistake at some point and get banned, Twitch should encourage correcting the situation or educating the streamers instead of just removing assets from their platform. Prevent instead of punish.
Yeah they seem to always pick the wrong choice. Occasionally there should be cases where they should punish and they don't, and vice versa. You'd think they'd get it right on accident at least occasionally lmao
@@wordydird when will we get a half decent competitor to twitch :( Guess the same time we get a half decent competitor to youtube which is never
@@TheHighFlys youtube and facebook already dwarf twitch
Best prevention is not platforming neonazis luv
@@emikochan13 those companies are competitors on paper only
I've been on twitch for over ten years, so hearing more details about how things operate was pretty insightful, but I came here hoping for what you said during the last 8ish minutes and you did not disappoint. The most tragic thing to lose with Destiny is the opportunity to have a space for partially outrageous ideas and opinions, so they can be openly challenged and actually get people away from in my opinion dangerous extremes. It's incredibly rare to find someone on the internet who can live with the consequences of this type of format and still keep their composure and rationality. Especially over so many years.
If you have been on Twitch for 10 years I recommend you leave and go to a social media platform which has a no bot policy.
For those scared to multiteam as an affiliate on twitch:
Twitch in truth does not care about affiliates. You can get away with multistreaming as an affiliate because twitch dont care about you until you reach partner level and even then they still might not care about you unless you bring in the big cash. Twitch HAS NEVER enforced multistreaming at an affiliate level. Twitch only care about enforcing exclusivity when you reach partner level. Devin mentioned this in his affiliate video If i recall. if Devin sees this comment then maybe he can correct me if im wrong.
Example, the export button. The exclusivity clause has been in effect for literal years now and STILL the export button does NOT reflect that. If they actually cared they'd make it so it was inactive for 24 hours after a cast ends. It wouldn't stop someone from just recording while broadcasting and putting it elsewhere or multistreaming from the get go, but it'd at least reflect the intent of the contract.
What you are describing is due to a lack of enforcement/resources, that could be changed at any point without an actual policy change. Especially true if an affiliate is has an abnormally high viewer base
I'm wondering about the actual legality of the affiliate contract, twitch is just taking 50% of your earnings and on top of that they think this is a good enough offer to restrict you exclusively to them, it shouldn't be okay anymore for a giant corporation to exploit their "workers" like an mlm
@@DamienCloud twitch doesn’t have any moral obligation to let a specific individual stream outside of protected status, I don’t see what you mean I guess? I think the only argument that could be made is that social media is the “new public square”, but expanding that to a gaming website seems like a stretch, unless I’m missing something?
@@calvinwilson3617 Every broadcaster needs to figure out the risk/reward scenario for themselves. Personally I think it would be worth it as most affiliates are on the grind. But if you do get an abnormally high amount of viewers as an affiliate and Twitch takes action on you it could get covered as if you were a T1 influencer which could indirectly help. Alot of broadcasters, including big ones like Asmongold, have come back from suspensions/bans bigger than they were beforehand.
was here at the 22 minute mark and this was very interesting to listen to. I will say as a 30 viewer andy who likes to invite people on to chat about all kinds of subjects. seeing destiny get banned for having an opinion and being lambasted for taking the "publicly" unpopular opinion was scary. its made me really question my position on twitch long term. I am in complete agreement that the only correct way of getting rid of bad opinions is to give people a place to have those opinions and being willing to discuss them and convince them otherwise. ostracizing only emboldens not just that person but people who agree with that person who have not been ostracized yet.
This has been happening for years u only care now since it’s a person u like
@@acceleration4443 if you knew anything about me you would know I have discussed this very issue live multiple times well before this happened.
What if you actually are the one with bad opinions? And twitch is banning to protect the bad opinions.. you frame it that bad opinions are being ostracized when it looks more like accurate but offensive opinions are being banned.. I just think your framing is adorable
It just shows how big tech is becoming the new world wide gouvernement that does whatever it wants and isn´t elected. Essentially total control with zero oversight.
People seem to not understand that platforms like FB,Twitter,Twitch,YT and so on are EXACTLY like the market place of the middle ages. The place people talk about everyday shit. However since the internet is owned by companies not the state(an institution of the people) it fucks up all the freedom people once had in such places.
@Spinexus Well, considering they aren't even marketplaces, I think we can safely say they are not like medeival markets. There is nothing like a government, just sales for these companies with twitch being bad at it.
It’s pretty rare I sit down and watch a full nearly 50 minute video from a creator I’ve never seen before about a streamer I don’t really follow. Love the way you made it accessible for those who don’t watch Destiny & the focus on the business aspect of it.
mrgirl's ban was similar. didn't even get a reason. I hate how twitch is creating a chilling effect around any potentially contentious or controversial discussion.
Edit: made it to 22mins. hi.
ya, we lost 2 best communicators, BUT we still have youtube
Twitch trying to ban/unparnter all lolcow streamers like dspgaming, wingsofredemption , ice poseidon, bathrobe_dawne, britney venti , lowtirgod , dellor , mrgirl , Ethan ralph and another 70 people.
@@MatichekUA-cam Yootoob gang
@@kingporo A person whose eccentric or foolish behaviour can be exploited to amuse onlookers. ... they normally end up on kiwi farms by other crazy viewers
@@Grandmothers you say it like it's a bad thing
Why wouldn't Twitch just add a "Controversial" checkbox when you start each stream, similar to UA-cam's "Made For Kids" thing and allow streamers to self-report and demonetize themselves for specific streams? Destiny would've glady self-policed and labelled a conversation about trans people as controversial, I'm guessing.
The only reason UA-cam has the "made for kids" thing is because the government scared them into doing it. In spite what the majority wants to think, social "platforms" do not care about their users or creators. They [Twitch, Facebook, Twitter, etc] only care about the money they can get by selling their users to advertisers. They don't care about you. You are a number, and making changes costs money and takes effort. The lazy, greedy fucks will never do anything unless forced.
because its about censorship not about a controversial checkbox lol. its a cancer that spreads for a while now on the internet
I doubt destiny would stream on twitch if there’s no money in it. He could make way more just catering to UA-cam and his site.
@@theanonymoustalk streamers mostly earn from subs and donations I think, so ads don't matter that much I think
@@Razerfreak1 Exactly. And accepting that it's "controversial" concedes how we ought to talk about something to ideologs that can't carry their ideas through actual discussions.
Can you explain why Critical Role gets away with multistreaming to UA-cam and Twitch? I'm wondering if it's because the stream is recorded now?
Either favoritism or just not worth it.
They most likely have a specific partnership deal with twitch that states they are allowed to multistream.
@@explosionsword4133 Yeah they are one of the largest channels on the platform.
I deleted Twitch the same day.
22 Minute Gang. Thanks for the insightful video Devin! The difference in ad targeting on YT vs Twitch is a really interesting point and helps explain some of Twitch’s recent decisions.
People are selling their partner accounts left and right on twitch... I can confirm 500 parnter accounts were sold in 2021 to now .
True, ppl are jumping ship
Here at 22 and fully invested! Never left a Devin Nash vid early or without learning something new.
Hey, Devin. Here @ the 22 minute mark. Love your content. Every time I see one of your videos, I'm like, 'I'll watch that for a few minutes...', and then, "BOOM!" I've just spent about an hour watching a video that, at the beginning, I only had a passing interest in. Not only was I entertained, but I leave your videos feeling like I actually learned something. So, thank you, and keep doing what you're doing.👍
DggL Devin. Love all your content (patreon included)
I got to 22 minutes! Always appreciate the insight into the Twitch and business marketing spaces.
Hey Devin, hope you have a good weekend
Hit the 22 mark! Awesome video, great information. We appreciate you, Devin!
Yeah got to 22mins red line is half way bud. Great content. I like the explanations of how bans can work depending on the revenue different platforms and why that didn't apply to this case.
22 minute gang. Never start a Devin Nash video and dont finish it, love what you do my man. Keep it coming
Your take at the end is very well said, you could've thrown down the gauntlet but you chose your words very carefully and articulated your point well.
In a world where there is information being thrown around all over the place, sometimes people will have a wrong take and that is normally due to a lack of information or understanding, not giving people a chance to understand, learn and grow. With how things are going going I feel we'll hit a tipping point where we'll get to and realise we have a decision to make, continue the way we are and become increasingly polarised in our opinion, or realise people can be wrong and as long as are willing to learn where they made mistakes and grow from it and they can redeem themselves.
Love your advocacy in being on the side of listening to people and hear their side and want to work things out.
Nice work Devin. :)
Twenty-two minute crew!
Thank you for your insight on the objectivity of business when it comes to bans; we get lost in the weeds of emotions and "drama", for lack of a better term, when it comes to these kinds of things. I've been in the HR field for many years, and as an HR officer, there are so many laws and regulations that make it hard to be fully transparent with the public without opening an institution up for legal implications and ramifications. Very cool to see this perspective shared!
Thanks for the perspective, Devin.
This feels like rehash of previous videos you have made, however I still get value from it!
Not sure how to explain it but thanks again.
This isn't super relevant to the larger picture, but the way you say at around 24 minutes how easy it is to get affiliate... I truly think it should be much harder to reach affiliate or get rid of it altogether. Maybe give some of the basic features to everyone, period, so that this whole "race to the bottom" would be less of a thing. Because for example, ever since emote slots were unlockable, with small streamers you can see they all do the same kinds of things. Affiliate and anything that comes with it only homogenizes Twitch as a platform.
I left you video right before you thanked people for staying. 😂 I came back and was dying. Thanks for this info man. Your the best.
Its me at 22 minutes Devin, love the content bro watch every vid the first moment I get
22 min gang, excellent video Devin I know these videos don’t get the numbers they should but they are so important to give us perspective. TLDR good shit man keep it up
Thanks for insight as always at the end of the video btw
33:31 Question . . . are you able to leave the affialte program on twitch currently at this time ?
22 minute mark achieved. Your content is interesting and informative. I typically watch to the end. Thank you for sharing your insightful thoughts with us.
And what has changed. What did you do different as a result of a random person's monologue
hoops!!
@@s.d.g.global4582 they have gotten insight about aspects of twitch and companies in general that they most likely wouldn't have gotten if they didn't watch this.
its kinda redicilous, if they dont have to show any reason for banning ppl. thats sick...
Think you had a really nice approach with this one. Loving the content!
Thank you for discussing this topic from a very professional level. And I say that purely from the perspective of being a person that LOVES discussing things deeply and thouroughly and letting other perspectives be shone as long it is done in a respactable manner. Now the respect is where discussions fall apart because the majority of people have no idea what a discussion actually IS and just want to be right
I’ll be honest. I can't even remember what kind of videos you made when I first subbed, but I love the seeing evolution and most of all, seeing your integrity in action. Integrity is soo rare. I value it extremly highly when I see it in a content creator
Lots of love bro
Made it to 22min my guy! your content is top tier my guy
We’re making cable TV on Twitch, literally feels like Adult Swim turning into Disney XD. Feels like i’m looking at PG IcePoseidon when i surf through OTV or OTK content, we got reality TV being fed when people who are actually true to themselves are being banned which was originally what we got drawn into twitch in the first place.
True
So you want Cx back?
@@joaquin5028 those people are unhinged, hampton brandon and andys made it so toxic. I liked laughing at the content back then but hell, i do not want to see them back so no, i don’t want Cx back lol
So what is your explanation of Amouranth beign banned MULTIPLE times for ToS violations and CONTINUES to be allowed to coem back to do it again... constantly.
Hi Devin... I'm still watching! Really like the in-depth nature of your videos.
Watched the thing devin. Great work
Got this far 22 min, love the content, bro!
40:00 I totally share your worries. Thanks for speaking about it in this video as well. It is a general problem that bothers me as it seems to creep in more and more even into groups I agreed with, that I think were aiming for commendable things, but mroe and more trying to reach them by unwittingly repeating the behaviours they wanted to overcome.
Yo 22 min thank you for the insight Devin. Always an awesome source info
Haven't watched as many of your videos lately but everytime I'm always feeling so informed and understand the new media space so much more
Listened to the 22 min mark - I appreciate your perspective and discussion points.
Great video. Really interesting point of view I didn't think of
Hey Devin, when Destiny got de-partnered earlier in this timeline, it was bittersweet for me as I was disappointed by it, but also excited to see what multi streaming could do for the DGG community, and slowly it had turned into something really cool, felt like even if I haven’t seen you two interact in like 3-4 years, that the advice in your videos that apply to all us small creators was instantly validated for me the minute Destiny was pulling more and more viewership and growth on his new multi streaming setup. I felt the spirit of your advice and care for the streamers you represent as well as advice and care for your friendships in this space really shine through. This time it’s rougher, and I would have never expected that we’re now in a world where 11 years of your life can be spent growing the twitch sphere, building long lasting friendships, only to have essentially everything pulled out from underneath you, and all these decade long friends can’t interact with you anymore due to these archaic streamer hostage exclusivity deals on twitch. Instantly all your connections disappear in a professional sense, I can’t imagine a harder timeline for a content creator to live in, ESPECIALLY ONE who’s content is predominately interacting with and boosting other creators. Sad days, but it warmed my heart a lot to see you talk about this and share your opinions, I acknowledge I’m bias in favour of destiny and agree with you 100%. But still, just warms my heart. Keep providing amazing content Devin.❤️
Maybe I misunderstood your point but Exclusivity deals don't mean you cannot interact or appear on other people's streams. Rae and Ludwig do it all the time, and their Twitch friends go over to collab on their UA-cam Streams as well. Only Permabans like the case of Dr. Disrespect disallow you from appearing on other people's streams on a platform.
@@philaeew4866 You’re not wrong, I tried to specify on a professional level, as in Destiny’s case, a huge portion of his content was joining panel shows which where hosted by other creators on their twitch respective twitch channels, and as per the fact that Destiny is permabanned, if he were to jump in on a panel show on twitch, it would be seen as ban evasion by twitch. :/
@@philaeew4866 AHHH you know what, I didn’t word it properly, I see where I messed up here, the exclusivity deal isn’t by itself the reason they can’t interact with each other, it’s the fact that these people have those contracts so they don’t have a presence on any other platforms, which in essence makes it so that they are dependant on twitch as their only platform, it’s a new dissuading factor from talking to Destiny now as they would have to turn off stream to do so. Sorry for my terrible explanations!! 😅
@@drinkcloudmilk I see, that does make total sense.
with the prominence of PC culture, this doesn't surprise me. its a slippery slope and we're moving down it. i stopped watching destiny years ago as my opinions dissented from his too strongly over the course of him going deeper and deeper into politics. however, i feel the platform needs creators like him, regardless of my opinions, to have a place for people to discuss, debate, and explore topics. shit sucks, but what can we do except watch it happen.
I was here at the 22 minute mark and for the rest of the video. I really enjoy these long form informative videos you make.
This was a really great video, listened through the whole thing (Hi 22 minute markers, I also watched that bit :D ).
Made it to the shoutout again. Thanks for the great insights and business advice
great video! you explained everything super well
Made it to the 22 minute mark! Speaking of targeted ads on youtube, this the first video I've ever gotten an intestinal cleanse advertisement on. Weird pick from the algorithm. Any chance you release the audio from these long chats as a podcast? I usually like to just listen to them while I work, and I can't turn my phone screen off to save power because it'll stops playing. You narrate your points well enough that the visuals aren't a necessity. I enjoy your content, thank you for continuing to put it out.
Miss the streams but love the vods I always put them on for my daily commute, keep up the good work man!
22 mins secret call of action! love your videos!
I will come back to finish this but i have to go to bed, i do have a question. Why not just settle it behind board and payout the contract rather than risk the lawsuit?
do you mean affiilates can literally not broadcast at the exact same time or can an affiliate do a stream on twitch and end that one and do a stream on youtube?
what about if you make your own platform can you still upload your content or broadcast live stream and charge users for access if you private
Made it to the 22:00 mark. Keep up the great content!
I guess you could say it's my "destiny" to be banned as well (banned for bad jokes)
Happy weekend Devin and All!
same to you, friend
22 mins checking in. amazing video again!!
22 min and more always valuable info in these videos. Thank you for sharing it with us.
I made it to the 20m mark Devin! I was wondering why you weren't making videos so long and realized I never subbed on my 2nd device/account, whoops. Going to try to catch up on backlog.
Watch the whole video. A lot to think about and be aware of in the future of twitch. Thank you for making this video Devin!
You know I got this far! Always watch your videos all the way through. So insightful.
22 minute andy here :) Thanks for the videos Devin!
made it to the end love you man
22 minute mark. I have been an affiliate and every time I get a payout I debated dropping it. Two questions though: if I left mid cycle, would I get whatever money was coming to me? And do they broadcast ads on non affiliate channels?
Here at 22 minutes and I for one would love to see devin’s desktop (presumably) full of a bunch of insanely long notes. Probably could give a phenomenal course on everything there. Oh yea, that’s basically just his UA-cam. Thank you Devin, this videos are an awesome resource especially for someone like me who wants to work my way up the streaming ladder :)
Made it to 22, your information is always appreciated.
at 22 min mark enjoying the video so far. thanks for the content.
Good video~ much needed, got past the 22 min mark with ease
Late to the vid but hopefully you may see this. General curiosity concerning the exclusive streaming:. How does critical roll get around that policy? Since they air their Thursday night stream on twitch and UA-cam now at the same time.
im here at 22 min. Keep up the great work Devin. i appreciate you going through all of this.
I always appreciate and respect your view on the business of content creation. Thanks for the work you put into these long form videos and providing a knowledgeable aspect from inside the industry itself.
Coming to this pretty late, but want to say I really appreciate you sharing this information and your perspective. You present things while maintaining a very professional and agreeable demeanor. Thanks.
Really good video man
Great video, Devin. Really well thought out.
Always get all the way through love the info and numbers
Thanks so much for illuminating this issue!
Aye got to the 22 minute mark and really love the content
At 22m I find myself wondering: wouldn't it be better for an organisation, in terms of deterring others from engaging in similar actions, to be transparent with the reason for the bans? In any case, on to the next 25 minutes.
Devon! Made it to "that point" and I really appreciate your hard work. You bring a sensible and well learned point of view to the table and your insight is very valuable. Keep up the good work.
22 minute algorithm impact. But memes aside I do always enjoy your videos and am a chronic lurker and rarely comment for anything. Keep up the thoughtful content.
Beautiful analysis, thanks
i have always watch your vid all so far keep up the great work
a bold strategy for winning buddy of the year, a masterful play by devin
Live your content. Always so insightful, easy to understand & well explained, especially for non streamers.
Great vid man.
22mins! Here still, good video! 💪🏽
Haven’t watched your Patreon content but I subscribed to it just because of these UA-cam uploads. Keep up the good work!
At the 22 minute mark and this is all very informative. TBH at this point I'd never ever start streaming on Twitch...or even consider it until I am a larger creator in general.
I thought it was funny he was like, "That's pretty far," yet it wasn't even halfway through the video.
Yeah I only use twitch to record long videos so I could edit it later on UA-cam because I don’t have capture card, not going to even try to gain a following there, don’t want them knowing who I am and Perma ban me.
@@shikamaru71ify sounds like you make spicy content XDDDDDD
@jim 😂 I suck, I posted and deleted my first few because I didn’t like em still learning how to do UA-cam, twitch was where I tried first, just wasn’t working.
Made it to the 22:00 mark. :) Always interesting to hear your input and thoughts.
Gotta love the secret CTAs. Loving the more frequent content Devin! Keep it up!!
No one is connecting pre-roll or ad breaks to the actual content creator. So I doubt brands are holding back due to individual content creators on twitch. I also question the statment of tiktok "eclipsing" twitch in streaming non-gaming. Tiktok has a massive daily active user base yes but how many of them are watching live streams and for how long?
you're great, great video as always, amazing responsibility in explaining the biases that you have, and i don't know who else could've said it, and as well as you have said it
I feel even those "just chatting" numbers are skewed. If you look in the category itself on Twitch, you will see top streamers playing certain video games, drawing art, etc. It's the streamer mis-labeling their streams.
A friend directed me here and it was extremely insightful. Not being familiar with Destiny, I don't have an informed opinion on his ban but given the seniority in time spent dedicated to Twitch you'd hope more care would go into these decisions. Twitch may also be trying to make a point that they don't hold favorites, though as well I suppose. As an affiliate on the platform, I know one of our other biggest gripes is the significant cut of revenue Twitch takes. Not sure yet if you have anything on that but I'm going to take a search and see. Oh, and 22 minute CTA gang
23:00 I watched this far and im gonna keep watching, really interesting insight :)