You have such a delightful kindness, generosity, fairness and inclusion in your thinking expression - so great to listen to your thoughts - thanks for sharing!
Yes yes - this is so used in AA or any 12 step groups this is really huge in these cults. ONe is always told to " make a gratitude list " , GO to a meeting, Count your blessings ...etc.
I don’t mean to be condescending because I am SO in the process of acknowledging my own difficult feelings… but I feel really proud of you Mark. You seem like you’re really doing a lot of work to stay authentic and to be courageous and share your truth. Keep going - it’s inspiring!!
This is really good. It's good to go thru the feelings and be aware of them. Don't mask them or bypass them. I am a Christian and I still believe this wholeheartedly. I have been thru a lot of trauma and am recovering well this way
At the end what you’re talking about sounds similar to Radical Acceptance, which is something I work in with my therapist. The way he put it is that pain is inevitable. We all feel pain at some point in our lives. But the difference between pain and suffering is resistance. By resisting things as they are, we then are dealing with feeling upset about the pain in addition to the pain itself.
I have watched The Vow, Seduced when it first came out. I am rewatching again trying to make sense of the political state, cultural community condition we are and have been largely in the last decade. Because it feels like a cult and helps seeing the correlations. The clarity your podcasts bring are so relevant and helpful to my understanding of all of it really. This one has me undone. I have had my own experiences and can relate sooo well to you and what you're saying here. Thank you and please continue to make these podcasts, sharing them here. It's been so very valuable.
What a wonderful video and it really made me realize that i have definitely been doing spiritual bypass for a very long time because I always end up denying my feelings and try to rise above snd give the other person the benefit of the doubt but in doing that, i deny myself what I feel and become critical towards me.
Thank you Mark Vicente . I am learning so much. I am a psychologist and have many experiences in different spiritual groups. Even though it is a long time ago I had my bad experience, I can't stop thinking about it.
Please keep making these! You have a unique way of articulating these issues so well and I love that I can have my coffee with a dose of validation in the morning. Thank you!
Damn. Listening to this really brought back alot of memories of when I was a believer. I was never in what you would call a high control cult, but I think there were times in my life when I was a step or two away from being in one. I knew one guy who really played the part of being 'in tune with the lord' really well. Yet he forced his girlfriend to have unprotected sex which led to an unwanted child being born. He was able to shift it to say how all is god's will. And I can see how my own thinking was really affected by spiritual bypassing. I could talk about how god works, but I couldn't really explain why I was utterly depressed about everything. I spent alot of time and energy ignoring my own moods and thought processes while trying to exist, as you put it, 'above myself'. I always knew that something was off, but for some reason I was never able to put it all together before watching this. "Sitting with what exists".....Damn.....Just damn.
Mark, I just finished the Vow, and am a psycho-spiritual therapist (MFT, PCC) who has been interested in cults since before I even was a clinician. I never knew why? As it turns out, families can be cults. And breaking from that multigenerational cycle of abuse is not only jarring, but so traumatic that one feels the label of “crazy” is true; the fear of being crazy surpasses the fear of death in most people-because being ostracized, not believed and rejected is too much for the mind. Lots on that, but I digress as I’m getting tangential. 😂 I have a couple questions for you. As a person, man, leader, husband that I’d like to ask you. Wondered if I may ask them? I can do this via email or some safe protocol you must have in place, and want the answer to be something FELT (feelings = our decision center, emotions are an expression of them) and I know you’re a feeler. (Jung’s typology). Let me know? Your courage is inspiring and your teaching is revolutionary. Perhaps first question should be “what happens now if YOU are the spiritual teacher?” And “do you regret ever going into the ESP intensive?” Thanks!! -
I used to feel that people that get caught up in cults or religion are not that intelligent. The reason I say that is I have always had a very strong sense of who I am and what I believe. I used to attend church as a kid but remember never buying into it (It seemed silly). I guess my confusion comes with all the modules with terms and definitions. Life seems simple and if I want to better myself, I just make the choice of what I want to accomplish and then do it. To me a lot of time is wasted if you spend it on defining words and ideas when you can just simply choose to make a change and then make it happen. Anyway, I find your podcast interesting.
I was told by a friend after I had just come out of a relationship with a narc psychopath that he was “just a spark of light like the rest of us” … I mean, sure .. but we are humans living here on earth not sparks of light at this monent . Same friend refused to talk about any subject that was on the darker side because she felt really good and didn’t want to go there
Oh my goodness I was at a funeral recently and the people who are leaders in the church were behaving like robots - very removed emotionally even though it was a loved one of theirs who had died, we commented later how odd it was and now I know what I was seeing.
Mark, is there some place besides UA-cam that we should leave a positive rating/ review for your podcast? I can subscribe and hit the "thumbs up" and leave a nice comment here, but something tells me I'm missing a different platform that your podcast is on... I just want you to feel supported in doing this important and necessary work, brother
Mark, a lot of folks on Le Reddit are made at you for not being more transparent about your role in SOP and feel you've been in some way disingenuous -- or that you haven't taken accountability -- and that you were being misogynistic not simply as Raniere's deputy, but more in th way that Nancy designed really odious aspects of the ESP curriculum. I don't AT ALL see you in this way, but I'm curious to know if you feel you've been transparent, or if there's stuff you feel badly about for which you simply don't want to account publicly because you don't want to be retraumatized. I feel that even after THE VOW and all the various podcast etc many people are not convinced that cult members are in fact brainwashed.... they just can't believe it, and therefore don't see you as having been victimized, which I find very unfortunate. I wish you all the best and thank you for these illuminating and honest discussions.
Avoiding pain, avoiding the reality of the human experience, is absolutely the root of all suffering.
You have such a delightful kindness, generosity, fairness and inclusion in your thinking expression - so great to listen to your thoughts - thanks for sharing!
Yes yes - this is so used in AA or any 12 step groups this is really huge in these cults. ONe is always told to " make a gratitude list " , GO to a meeting, Count your blessings ...etc.
I don’t mean to be condescending because I am SO in the process of acknowledging my own difficult feelings… but I feel really proud of you Mark. You seem like you’re really doing a lot of work to stay authentic and to be courageous and share your truth. Keep going - it’s inspiring!!
Mark, you're at your two cult lifetime limit!
Hopefully! ;-)
This is really good. It's good to go thru the feelings and be aware of them. Don't mask them or bypass them. I am a Christian and I still believe this wholeheartedly. I have been thru a lot of trauma and am recovering well this way
At the end what you’re talking about sounds similar to Radical Acceptance, which is something I work in with my therapist. The way he put it is that pain is inevitable. We all feel pain at some point in our lives. But the difference between pain and suffering is resistance. By resisting things as they are, we then are dealing with feeling upset about the pain in addition to the pain itself.
I have watched The Vow, Seduced when it first came out. I am rewatching again trying to make sense of the political state, cultural community condition we are and have been largely in the last decade. Because it feels like a cult and helps seeing the correlations.
The clarity your podcasts bring are so relevant and helpful to my understanding of all of it really.
This one has me undone. I have had my own experiences and can relate sooo well to you and what you're saying here.
Thank you and please continue to make these podcasts, sharing them here. It's been so very valuable.
What a wonderful video and it really made me realize that i have definitely been doing spiritual bypass for a very long time because I always end up denying my feelings and try to rise above snd give the other person the benefit of the doubt but in doing that, i deny myself what I feel and become critical towards me.
Thank you Mark Vicente . I am learning so much. I am a psychologist and have many experiences in different spiritual groups. Even though it is a long time ago I had my bad experience, I can't stop thinking about it.
Sitting with what you feel is excellent
so smart.
Please keep making these! You have a unique way of articulating these issues so well and I love that I can have my coffee with a dose of validation in the morning. Thank you!
Thank you! Will do!
Damn. Listening to this really brought back alot of memories of when I was a believer. I was never in what you would call a high control cult, but I think there were times in my life when I was a step or two away from being in one.
I knew one guy who really played the part of being 'in tune with the lord' really well. Yet he forced his girlfriend to have unprotected sex which led to an unwanted child being born. He was able to shift it to say how all is god's will.
And I can see how my own thinking was really affected by spiritual bypassing. I could talk about how god works, but I couldn't really explain why I was utterly depressed about everything. I spent alot of time and energy ignoring my own moods and thought processes while trying to exist, as you put it, 'above myself'.
I always knew that something was off, but for some reason I was never able to put it all together before watching this.
"Sitting with what exists".....Damn.....Just damn.
I am enjoying your ideas so much. Keep going!
Mark, I just finished the Vow, and am a psycho-spiritual therapist (MFT, PCC) who has been interested in cults since before I even was a clinician. I never knew why? As it turns out, families can be cults. And breaking from that multigenerational cycle of abuse is not only jarring, but so traumatic that one feels the label of “crazy” is true; the fear of being crazy surpasses the fear of death in most people-because being ostracized, not believed and rejected is too much for the mind. Lots on that, but I digress as I’m getting tangential. 😂 I have a couple questions for you. As a person, man, leader, husband that I’d like to ask you. Wondered if I may ask them? I can do this via email or some safe protocol you must have in place, and want the answer to be something FELT (feelings = our decision center, emotions are an expression of them) and I know you’re a feeler. (Jung’s typology). Let me know? Your courage is inspiring and your teaching is revolutionary. Perhaps first question should be “what happens now if YOU are the spiritual teacher?” And “do you regret ever going into the ESP intensive?” Thanks!! -
your a brilliant guy. I'm glad you got out !
I used to feel that people that get caught up in cults or religion are not that intelligent. The reason I say that is I have always had a very strong sense of who I am and what I believe. I used to attend church as a kid but remember never buying into it (It seemed silly). I guess my confusion comes with all the modules with terms and definitions. Life seems simple and if I want to better myself, I just make the choice of what I want to accomplish and then do it. To me a lot of time is wasted if you spend it on defining words and ideas when you can just simply choose to make a change and then make it happen. Anyway, I find your podcast interesting.
I was told by a friend after I had just come out of a relationship with a narc psychopath that he was “just a spark of light like the rest of us” … I mean, sure .. but we are humans living here on earth not sparks of light at this monent . Same friend refused to talk about any subject that was on the darker side because she felt really good and didn’t want to go there
My good man… you can’t be calling these podcast when they’re only 13 minutes long 😭 we want more
They'll be getting longer ;-)
Question to consider: “What is the measure of success?” Would love to hear answers !
Oh my goodness I was at a funeral recently and the people who are leaders in the church were behaving like robots - very removed emotionally even though it was a loved one of theirs who had died, we commented later how odd it was and now I know what I was seeing.
Ughh. So sad.
Toxic positivity …… sounds like my family! 🤔
Mark, is there some place besides UA-cam that we should leave a positive rating/ review for your podcast? I can subscribe and hit the "thumbs up" and leave a nice comment here, but something tells me I'm missing a different platform that your podcast is on...
I just want you to feel supported in doing this important and necessary work, brother
Yes! Thank You Hagar. Apple Podcasts is probably the best place to do it: podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/wtf-is-on-my-mind/id1646783869
Mark, a lot of folks on Le Reddit are made at you for not being more transparent about your role in SOP and feel you've been in some way disingenuous -- or that you haven't taken accountability -- and that you were being misogynistic not simply as Raniere's deputy, but more in th way that Nancy designed really odious aspects of the ESP curriculum. I don't AT ALL see you in this way, but I'm curious to know if you feel you've been transparent, or if there's stuff you feel badly about for which you simply don't want to account publicly because you don't want to be retraumatized.
I feel that even after THE VOW and all the various podcast etc many people are not convinced that cult members are in fact brainwashed.... they just can't believe it, and therefore don't see you as having been victimized, which I find very unfortunate. I wish you all the best and thank you for these illuminating and honest discussions.
are you familiar with L/L Research, Love and Light????