You didn't talk to a Polaris engineer you talked to a Polaris sales rep. I'm an engineer and he did not say anything special that would hear from someone more tech oriented. I would have gone into the CFD analysis or maybe the different metal alloy we were using. Instead you got bullet points. Can't blame the guy he was probably a quality engineer just filling out nonconformances and MRB reports and they offered him a chance to get away from the desk.
After watching the video about skidoo’s 850 I’m not very impressed with this one. Looks like the old engine with more cc. Skidoo (Rotax) actually remade their 850 entirely and improved everything with new tech. Like 2 piece cranks, oiled Bearings, bold on rods and more. Polaris just had to get a sled with an 850cc to compete but I’m not fooled lol
I agree 100% I have owned a handful of polaris's and skidoos 850 by far crushs the competition plus not one of the snowmobile companies can even compare to the etec technology and this rep for Polaris saying we don't post engine horsepower numbers give me a break
@@threexxxphat who's dyno would you like them to use? One at sea level? what temperature? what brand of dyno? one at 5000 feet? a track dyno, crank dyno?what company would you like to see dyno it? Do you want polaris to dyno their own? Doo dyno their own? We've all seen numbers in the past from Manufacturers on "independant dynos", and all the numbers were pretty much complete lies but I do know that if you tell me an engine has 9 percent more power over the previous model an Ive ridden the previous model then I'll have a good handle on the power output. And lets not forget that horsepower sells cars and torque wins races, generally speaking the bigger the smile the more hp and torque you have. Cheers and thanks for watching!
@@PowerModzOfficial all I am saying is that he didn't wanna answer your question when you asked how much horsepower the engine made he said 9% more . What sells sleds in my opinion are HP numbers
@@ColinMcEvoy The 800 is 5 cc per 1 hp. The 850 is 4.8 cc per 1 hp. It is making more hp per cc than the 800. Thats 160hp.vs 174.5 hp. Is it jaw dropping? No, but it's better than the skidoo 850 which is still at 165hp. I'm more concerned with reliability, 174 hp is plenty enough for anybody.
Reason for Single ring piston is easy as the piston and ring heat up the single ring loses seal and blow by occurs. When this occurs the engine actually "detunes" itself by contaminating the incoming charge with exhaust gases. Resulting in far fewer warranty claims on engines. A single ring piston does have less drag and in a short run will produce more power over a dual ring piston, but as heat builds any benefit of a single ring is mitigated. Also his comment about heat transfer is incorrect. A dual ring piston has twice the area as a single ring piston to transfer heat to the cylinder wall.
The fuel is "vaporized" by forcing it through tiny holes in the injector tip at high pressure. Skidoo directly (see what I did there) I Jett's fuel onto the top of the piston so none of the fuel charge is lost out the exhaust port as the piston has already closed that off by this time in the stroke.
1 MPG is bad ass. Fouling plugs every ride is awesome. Why would you actually just use 1 ring? Don't tell anyone its awful and your sled engine will blow up in 1000 miles instead of 2000 miles BUT it saved the company so much money they gave me free McDonalds lunches for life. Pretty soon i'm gonna need 2 sleds hooked together to move me around.
Lol still same excuses for fouling plugs since 2014 techs told me the fuel in ablerta was too good use regular haha tell a customer to put junk fuel.in their new sled to keep from fouling plugs come on guys or over oiling from dealer to home during break in....
Nothing against this guy, but it seems like you had to pry everything out of him. If I were involved in a project like that, you couldn't get me to shut up about all the cool stuff designed into the motor. This is a big deal for Polaris, and they should be sending people to the shows that can brag about it. In some ways, I miss the old Fuji piston port motors - they were so easy to work on. On the other hand, squeeze the throttle on anything since then and there's no going back, huge improvement.
Is this the same guy that engineered the Polaris ATV 850 engine disaster that has cost ATV owners thousands of dollars? Someone needs to be prosecuted...
“9%, but we don’t publish numbers”...sounds like it makes less power than the SkiDoo 850. “It’s all new from the ground up” proceeds to explain how everything is similar.
Hey PowerModz I am from Alberta I like watching your snowmobile videos. I recently rebuilt my top end on my mxz 670 because I watched your videos thank you!
Boon Docker - You can't be serious. I currently have three Polaris snowmobiles with over 10,000 miles. My buddies 1998 Ski-doo Formula III 700, my buddies 2005 Ski-doo REV 600, and my brothers Ski-doo 800 REV all had isoflex crank bearing failures at 3000 miles, 2000 miles, and 2000 miles. Had to have Goodwin Performance add a direct oil passage to fix the issue. Ski-doo blows literally.
The Polaris engine would be a great engine if it was not for the fact the Skidoo engine is so much better.. Only Problem with my 2014 Skidoo is the chassis likes to bend and fold if you ride hard or hit a small obstacle .. The Skidoo has direct injection and does not need a starter anymore due to a capacitor and a very strong charging coil system "rare earth magnets.." The Skidoo 850 has so many improvements over the 800 it almost makes me want to trade it in.. Then again I just saw a 2017 Sidewinder on sale for a very good price ..
He spoke about the problem of dealers unnecessarily adding oil to the gas tank for break in and causing plug fouling, but did not mention the solution (well other than don't put in oil...lol). I just bought two 2018 800 SKS 155's off the showroom floor to which the dealer added oil a couple years back when they were assembled. The sled I have been riding most has fouled 6 plugs in 8 hours of operation. The other sled has 4 hours and has fouled only one plug. The ECU will continue to add extra oil until the 18 hour mark. Will this issue of plug fouling eventually clear up? Wondering at this point if I have a gummed up injector....since it's always on the PTO side. Sleds run like a champ otherwise. Been running 91 oct non-ethanol through it along with a can of seafoam with some long WOT pulls, so time will tell I guess.
What is reliable? Depends on how you look after it, maintain it, treat it, change pistons etc etc. It's not a dud motor, it's a typical snowmobile engine.
@@PowerModzOfficial that's a cop out statement about reliability. Reliability means,,, put in clean gas and oil and ride. It either holds up or it doesn't.
I guess so as long as you are getting enough oil to them. I seen a 12v71 2 stroke Detroit diesel for a generator eat rings and bent a few rods on a boat I worked on. The single ring scares me with all the heat and pressure the 850 patriot makes. Are thinking of making a hydrogen 850 patriot turbo? The Polaris motors are nice. Imagine a 440 CID v8 2 stroke with the patriot port pattern scaled up for a truck or dodge challenger/charger.
Could you guide him along more... call him a rep. He had answers, but you had to pull them out.. makes me leery of his absolutes in solving known issues.
My question on it would be on the reeds. My understanding on those is it helps with fuel and air to mix up with each other. Just trying to remember. If that is the case then why does it need them if the fuel is added threw the injectors
I had a 2014 Polaris Sportsman 800 love that machine I think the rated horsepower was somewhere in the 50 mark we recently bought a 2018 Sportsman 850 HO amazing machine huge power difference put a lot of hard miles on it bought a sportsman 2017 highlifter 1000 grape machine I must say Claire's his warranty for me was great one reverse chain 2 front diff three axles upgrades exhaust tuner lift kit atv.mom.canada come and have a look !
@@jlo13800 I ended up buying a spring 2020 snow check SKS being offered with the 850. After half a season the motor tanked. Rebuilt with the Wossner double ring piston kit. Starting off the 2022 season with double the miles then the factory single ring.
Hey Louis, great to chat w you at the ATV show. I also had a talk w Rick (Polaris Rep) and in fairness to him, (noted some comments below suggestion he is ill-informed), might suggest he may have been a bit camera shy, (or in awe of your celebrity status hehehe). I found him to be quite knowledgeable. Still, will wait until you get your hands on one and give it a PowerModz torture test. Here's hoping it last more than a few trail rides.
lol, well lets see! I have high hopes for it. I still think a sled engine can be built well and made to last without having to reinvent the wheel...it's pretty simple stuff that just needs to make power and take abuse. Let's see how it turns out.
800s can't hold together....."let's add 50cc and take away a ring!"
Where did they find this guy. sounds like a show goer with a Polaris shirt on.
You didn't talk to a Polaris engineer you talked to a Polaris sales rep. I'm an engineer and he did not say anything special that would hear from someone more tech oriented. I would have gone into the CFD analysis or maybe the different metal alloy we were using. Instead you got bullet points. Can't blame the guy he was probably a quality engineer just filling out nonconformances and MRB reports and they offered him a chance to get away from the desk.
You can use that 9% extra power to blow up the engine even faster than normal.
40% more service calls
Lmfao ... so true . Don't forget a couple more expensive belts before the big grenade happens .
After watching the video about skidoo’s 850 I’m not very impressed with this one. Looks like the old engine with more cc. Skidoo (Rotax) actually remade their 850 entirely and improved everything with new tech. Like 2 piece cranks, oiled Bearings, bold on rods and more. Polaris just had to get a sled with an 850cc to compete but I’m not fooled lol
Lets see how it hold up!
You do realize that's all ancient outboard engine tech right?
I agree 100% I have owned a handful of polaris's and skidoos 850 by far crushs the competition plus not one of the snowmobile companies can even compare to the etec technology and this rep for Polaris saying we don't post engine horsepower numbers give me a break
@@threexxxphat who's dyno would you like them to use? One at sea level? what temperature? what brand of dyno? one at 5000 feet? a track dyno, crank dyno?what company would you like to see dyno it? Do you want polaris to dyno their own? Doo dyno their own? We've all seen numbers in the past from Manufacturers on "independant dynos", and all the numbers were pretty much complete lies but I do know that if you tell me an engine has 9 percent more power over the previous model an Ive ridden the previous model then I'll have a good handle on the power output. And lets not forget that horsepower sells cars and torque wins races, generally speaking the bigger the smile the more hp and torque you have. Cheers and thanks for watching!
@@PowerModzOfficial all I am saying is that he didn't wanna answer your question when you asked how much horsepower the engine made he said 9% more . What sells sleds in my opinion are HP numbers
Only 9 percent with an extra 40CC, doesn't seem very impressive. Also representative doesn't seem overly knowledgeable
I was going to say the same thing .
Oh I dont know, I think thats pretty decent. I just hope the 850 sticks together a little longer!
extra 15hp out of 40cc isn't alot at all
@@ColinMcEvoy The 800 is 5 cc per 1 hp. The 850 is 4.8 cc per 1 hp. It is making more hp per cc than the 800. Thats 160hp.vs 174.5 hp. Is it jaw dropping? No, but it's better than the skidoo 850 which is still at 165hp. I'm more concerned with reliability, 174 hp is plenty enough for anybody.
@@SirAnderw it's not 180hp maybe 170
Looks like the same shit different year...but with 40+CC
no no... when polaris put axys 800 on the market in 2015 the game change.....
Reason for Single ring piston is easy as the piston and ring heat up the single ring loses seal and blow by occurs. When this occurs the engine actually "detunes" itself by contaminating the incoming charge with exhaust gases. Resulting in far fewer warranty claims on engines. A single ring piston does have less drag and in a short run will produce more power over a dual ring piston, but as heat builds any benefit of a single ring is mitigated. Also his comment about heat transfer is incorrect. A dual ring piston has twice the area as a single ring piston to transfer heat to the cylinder wall.
Thank you for this explanation.. Been saying the same thing for many years..
The Piston is cooled by incoming cold air and gas vapor
There are a lot of things that help the piston rid itself of heat. The ring is critical for transferring the heat OFF of the crown of the piston.
How about the Skidoo injects fuel directly on top of the piston .. It takes heat to vaporize liquids
The fuel is "vaporized" by forcing it through tiny holes in the injector tip at high pressure. Skidoo directly (see what I did there) I Jett's fuel onto the top of the piston so none of the fuel charge is lost out the exhaust port as the piston has already closed that off by this time in the stroke.
You have to ride it before you talk crap. That 850 is a huge noticeable difference over the 800
1 MPG is bad ass. Fouling plugs every ride is awesome. Why would you actually just use 1 ring? Don't tell anyone its awful and your sled engine will blow up in 1000 miles instead of 2000 miles BUT it saved the company so much money they gave me free McDonalds lunches for life. Pretty soon i'm gonna need 2 sleds hooked together to move me around.
This dude doesn't have a clue wtf he is talking about
Wow he really doesn't. It cant even explain any more than its new. Nothing about why its new and what better about it. Lame!
Lol still same excuses for fouling plugs since 2014 techs told me the fuel in ablerta was too good use regular haha tell a customer to put junk fuel.in their new sled to keep from fouling plugs come on guys or over oiling from dealer to home during break in....
All the sudden the terrible motor reliability makes sense...this “engineer” prob designed the 05 900 as well...
I’ll stick to my 700 liberty’s lol
Yep we had good luck with that so we are keeping it......lol Behind Ski doo
Nothing against this guy, but it seems like you had to pry everything out of him. If I were involved in a project like that, you couldn't get me to shut up about all the cool stuff designed into the motor. This is a big deal for Polaris, and they should be sending people to the shows that can brag about it. In some ways, I miss the old Fuji piston port motors - they were so easy to work on. On the other hand, squeeze the throttle on anything since then and there's no going back, huge improvement.
Is this the same guy that engineered the Polaris ATV 850 engine disaster that has cost ATV owners thousands of dollars? Someone needs to be prosecuted...
15hp out of 40 more cc's isn't bad considering 50cc engines usually don't even make 5hp
Some can make about 20 hp.
I'm starting to think this is just a spectator posing as a Polaris engineer. Lol
This guy doesn't know anything about what he is explaining! He either can't or won't say why things are better!
This guy isnt an engineer, more like a salesperson. An engineer would know specifics and a hell of a lot more.
Nothing but issues with my 850 since day one...and i just seized the engine today.. first and last polaris i will own lol
Can they explain why a 2023 still has fuel
Issues? 4 years into it and they still can’t get it to run better than a carb’d sled. Embarrassing!
Explained by engineer LOL he didn't seem to know very much sounds like a sales persons BS
New improved slurpees. Dont waste the juuuuiiiice.
Im at 5200 miles so far so good 👍👍 Still have a year of warranty left....
“9%, but we don’t publish numbers”...sounds like it makes less power than the SkiDoo 850. “It’s all new from the ground up” proceeds to explain how everything is similar.
169 170 hp motor
Hey PowerModz I am from Alberta I like watching your snowmobile videos. I recently rebuilt my top end on my mxz 670 because I watched your videos thank you!
Hey thanks for watching!
Is it going to last longer then the 800 I have heard there already having problems with the 850
I'm sure it will last longer than a Ski-doo with isoflex crank bearings.
@@TrakSpock1 they haven't built a motor yet that outlast skidoo
Boon Docker - You can't be serious. I currently have three Polaris snowmobiles with over 10,000 miles. My buddies 1998 Ski-doo Formula III 700, my buddies 2005 Ski-doo REV 600, and my brothers Ski-doo 800 REV all had isoflex crank bearing failures at 3000 miles, 2000 miles, and 2000 miles. Had to have Goodwin Performance add a direct oil passage to fix the issue. Ski-doo blows literally.
Boon Docker - ua-cam.com/video/JbvSh7Skhso/v-deo.html
Boon Docker - ua-cam.com/video/zgrarWdP4gE/v-deo.html
The Polaris engine would be a great engine if it was not for the fact the Skidoo engine is so much better.. Only Problem with my 2014 Skidoo is the chassis likes to bend and fold if you ride hard or hit a small obstacle ..
The Skidoo has direct injection and does not need a starter anymore due to a capacitor and a very strong charging coil system "rare earth magnets.." The Skidoo 850 has so many improvements over the 800 it almost makes me want to trade it in.. Then again I just saw a 2017 Sidewinder on sale for a very good price ..
He spoke about the problem of dealers unnecessarily adding oil to the gas tank for break in and causing plug fouling, but did not mention the solution (well other than don't put in oil...lol). I just bought two 2018 800 SKS 155's off the showroom floor to which the dealer added oil a couple years back when they were assembled. The sled I have been riding most has fouled 6 plugs in 8 hours of operation. The other sled has 4 hours and has fouled only one plug. The ECU will continue to add extra oil until the 18 hour mark. Will this issue of plug fouling eventually clear up? Wondering at this point if I have a gummed up injector....since it's always on the PTO side. Sleds run like a champ otherwise.
Been running 91 oct non-ethanol through it along with a can of seafoam with some long WOT pulls, so time will tell I guess.
It's a 800 with like 5000 bucks of upgrades
HI POWERMODZ WHAT YOUR OPINION ON THE POLARIS 800 2 STROKE MOTOR? ARE THEY RELIABLE?
What is reliable? Depends on how you look after it, maintain it, treat it, change pistons etc etc. It's not a dud motor, it's a typical snowmobile engine.
@@PowerModzOfficial that's a cop out statement about reliability. Reliability means,,, put in clean gas and oil and ride. It either holds up or it doesn't.
I guess so as long as you are getting enough oil to them. I seen a 12v71 2 stroke Detroit diesel for a generator eat rings and bent a few rods on a boat I worked on. The single ring scares me with all the heat and pressure the 850 patriot makes. Are thinking of making a hydrogen 850 patriot turbo? The Polaris motors are nice. Imagine a 440 CID v8 2 stroke with the patriot port pattern scaled up for a truck or dodge challenger/charger.
Could you guide him along more... call him a rep. He had answers, but you had to pull them out.. makes me leery of his absolutes in solving known issues.
Would like to re-do the same conversation now with the history of the 19' 850
BRP tons of video Dyno test UA-cam 165 horse
My question on it would be on the reeds. My understanding on those is it helps with fuel and air to mix up with each other. Just trying to remember. If that is the case then why does it need them if the fuel is added threw the injectors
So, a bandaged 800. Cmon Yamaha, show these guys how it's done.
is a polaris XLT 600 any good? I got one for free and it runs.
Any comments on the PTO bearings? Bahahah
Still running my stock pro 800 since 2011. Still runs like new, no lost compression.
Why is my 850 xcr loosing plugs
do you let it idle too long when warming up?
Where are they going?
I had a 2014 Polaris Sportsman 800 love that machine I think the rated horsepower was somewhere in the 50 mark we recently bought a 2018 Sportsman 850 HO amazing machine huge power difference put a lot of hard miles on it bought a sportsman 2017 highlifter 1000 grape machine I must say Claire's his warranty for me was great one reverse chain 2 front diff three axles upgrades exhaust tuner lift kit atv.mom.canada come and have a look !
Why only 50 hp out of 800cc?
Wonder if the pistons fit.
I love Polaris snowmobiles, owned Polaris sleds since I was a kid but not too sure about the single ring.
Yeah that 1 ring has to deal with a lot. I guess you could change out the pistons for 2 ring after market pistons.
@@jlo13800 I ended up buying a spring 2020 snow check SKS being offered with the 850. After half a season the motor tanked. Rebuilt with the Wossner double ring piston kit. Starting off the 2022 season with double the miles then the factory single ring.
Hey Louis, great to chat w you at the ATV show. I also had a talk w Rick (Polaris Rep) and in fairness to him, (noted some comments below suggestion he is ill-informed), might suggest he may have been a bit camera shy, (or in awe of your celebrity status hehehe). I found him to be quite knowledgeable. Still, will wait until you get your hands on one and give it a PowerModz torture test. Here's hoping it last more than a few trail rides.
lol, well lets see! I have high hopes for it. I still think a sled engine can be built well and made to last without having to reinvent the wheel...it's pretty simple stuff that just needs to make power and take abuse. Let's see how it turns out.
The 850 patriot is bullet proof and has balls , also like turbos