Man, i've jumped across multiple high-end audio online stores in order to ask for advice via email or online chat, and have tried forums as well. After getting frustrated with their lack of knowledge and overall inconsistency, stumbling onto these videos is a breath of fresh air! I had all my questions answered in just two consise videos, without having to even ask. Cheers.
Paul, you got it only partially right. You will need to high-pass the main speakers to perfectly match output, reduce IMD and save some power handling (also energy). That's why the correct way of connecting a subwoofer is through a crossover, be it digital or analog.
what type of crossover product would you recommend for this? Ive also been wondering the same thing, thinking I can use the internal crossover in my AVR by using a second zone to send to the sub. I would much rather not have to use the second zone as it doesn't have the same delay adjustability as my main LR output.
Due to space limitations I can't have a fully separate set of speakers for my stereo and my home theater (plus I like to listen to multi-channel music sometimes, sue me ;) ), so I have my receiver with pre-amp outs running into a preamp with HT bypass into a 2 channel amp for my front/stereo speakers, which I have a smaller sealed sub connected from the amp to the high level inputs, I then have two ported subs connected to the '.2' outputs of my receiver, and I set my front speakers to 'large' so they aren't crossed over there and the other channels and LFE go to the other subs. I really like that setup.
Paul, I cannot thank you enough for this tidbit of info. While I knew this option for connecting equipment together existed, I had no idea how much of an improvement in sound quality it would make. Even on my entry level system consisting of an older Pioneer A/V receiver, a pair of Polk S20 bookshelf speakers and an ancient (lol) Sony 125w 12" subwoofer. (go ahead and feel free to laugh guys)
I asked about subwoofer connection a day ago and you kindly answered my question. Your recommendation of connecting the sub directly to the amplifier has intrigued me. My sub is a JL Audio e112 ( a pair ). When I got them, I took advantage of their technical help which is is an over the phone call. I have Ariel 7 Floor Standing Speakers. Conrad Johnson Pre-amp and Amp. The Technician advised me to take cables from the Pre-amp Out to the JL e112’s Input and the JL e 112’s Outs to the Imputs of the Amp. Obviously using the right and left connections separately. The e112’s have a Crossover knob and a Phase knob and also a flip switch for 180 or O settings . Finally using the recommended crossover settings and then setting the phase to get the best response.
Actually the channel LFE ( the .1 thing) is no more used by IMax. They use this channel for "height channel ". Bass management ( summing all channels using a op-amp , usually called as buffer and then it will go through signal processing ( in case of DSP) or active filter and phase correction of required. So go for an active filter ( you can do it yourself using any good op amp chips or buy a ready made subwoofer filter board and then fed the output to any class D amp board ( go for tda8954 if you have dual power supply or tda7498 or just use a class AB - tda 7293 bridge parellel to deliver true 400 watts
I have gotta say, between your knowledge, your passion, and your sheer charm I have a hard time breaking away from watching your videos. Thanks for sharing the wealth, Mr. McGowan!
I’ve been doing this for years and absolutely love the sound. Audiophile snobs all had their opinions that I listened to but kept doing what I was doing. Why? Because I liked the sound and that’s why we own such luxuries is for the the sound reproduction that we personally enjoy. Thanks Paul
Gave this a shot today with my Carver TrueSub. Love it! I find it blends with the music much more cohesively, and has far less of the "bump" sound commonly associated with a powered sub.
Great video, Paul! I wanted to comment here that I recently made the switch from low level (RCA) inputs to high level (speaker) inputs on my Klipsch subwoofer. I was skeptical but the difference literally was night and day. Can't thank you enough for the encouragement.
Just came across this now, and wow, I didn't expect it. I would have thought a dedicated sub out was best, but this advice makes sense in the realm of audio. Thanks!
It is amazing the difference a sub woofer makes. When i moved from a house into an apartment i had to downsize my system.... happily replaced my floor standers with smaller bookshelf speakers.... but i had to keep the sub.
Wow just learned something new today from this video,I always assumed that you get a cleaner signal from your rca output but just the opposite gotta try this out when I get time
Didn’t have a subwoofer out on my amp so I ran the PSW 10 subwoofer line in off the left speaker input and it sounds great. I was afraid it would miss some of the bass but it didn’t. Left or right or combined it sounds the same- great! 👍👍👍
For LFE or "SUB" output, whether mono or stereo, I like to use shielded RCA cables. I make my own using shielded alarm cable and attatching the cable's shield to the RCA's shield on one end only, I chose the receiver end. It works great. The cable's aluminum shield "absorbs" any electrical noise and grounds it through the receiver. It sounds better than any other cable I've used, and allowed me to run it behind walls and cut to perfect length.
This is very confusing. I have always heard that the best way to send a signal to a sub is through the low level (RCA) outputs. Which makes perfect sense to me as I would think the amplified signal (from the speaker outputs on the amp/receiver) would be degraded by the crossover network in the sub. I'd like to know if this is true or not. I just feel very leery of sending a high level signal to a sub crossover and expecting it to not be affected in some way. Great channel by the way!!!
I can’t believe I have discovered this channel just recently. The amount of valuable info is amazing! Thank you for all you do and I’m going to take on the invitation to Colorado and start saving. Because I know I will be converted and will be buying some of the hi fi from PS audio
Thank you for this video! I am re-arranging my humble system and was going to use the RCA jacks on my M&K sub thinking it would be a preferred setup. I was wrong and I thank you for explaining to me the how & why of using the speaker outs instead of the preamp outs. Very much appreciate!
Added a pair of Rel T5 subs into my two channel system about 5 years ago, connected as you suggest, and have never looked back. I'm actually not a fan of excessive bass, just want to be able to hear the full range of the recording. Would have to say, other than changing speakers, it has been easily the biggest upgrade I have made in my system. Highly recommended. Great vid Paul.
I'm just a newbie to this, but am baffled as to "how" a pair of subs can be added to a system when only one "sub out" is usually in integrated amps, how did you add your two subs if you don't mind me asking? And what amp did you use to add them?
Fantastic explanation Paul. As someone who has dabbled in professional audio equipment for 20 years, I have somehow dodged the use of a subwoofer. Now I don't feel so insecure when I see one, and will look to purchase an active unit to play around with.
Thanks Paul, nice presentation and very useful. Might I add that a main reason for using the high-level connection is that you can just set the SW volume and cross-over levels once and forget about it. When using the line input you have to keep adjusting the SW volume every time you adjust the main volume. Not the way to go. Additionally, my SW has an auto power on/off, responding to the input signal. I do not even have to switch it on and off.
Paul, your clear and intelligent suggestions enabled me to hook up my 'vintage' Technics Amp to my Energy MS Sub. (now sounds great) You simplified a task that cut thru all the online 'Gumbo'. Bravo and Thanks
This is interesting. This is how I've connected to my sub. I'm using a NAD 2600 amplifier with an extra set of speaker wires to a basic Energy subwoofer (that has the high level inputs). What amazes me is that no matter how loud I push the system (and it will be super clean and too loud even for me) the Energy sub never has a problem. No bottoming out. No distortion. It actually keeps up, although at some point (I feel) where the volume is high, the sub doesn't get any louder. All in all this has always amazed me. I've always attributed this to the NAD (and built in protection of the Energy sub). And yes, it makes my ordinary speakers sing.
I hooked up my Rel T9 sub to the high level output on my new Cyrus One amp to the speaker terminals like you said but it just made a throbbing sound on my sub. There are 4 terminals for each speaker on the amp for bi wiring so I hooked them up to the same ones as the speakers. Will need to figure this one out as I do what to have full range on my speakers. I love your channel Paul all the way from Scotland.
My sub (an active one) is connected exactly the way Paul sais (from the speaker power outputs of my amp) and the sound of my system is indeed amazingly rich. With a natural bass (deep and light in the same time), completely different than the one my home cinema system is producing. Perfect for music enjoyment. 😌🎶
Paul has already told you ..! Just make sure the sub is in phase and the xo frequency is correctly aligned and there you have it ! Simple ..😊 Adjust the sub level to suite your own preference...
@@janinapalmer8368 There is no correct xover frequency. It's a trade-off. But if the crossover slope isn't steep enough it might be impossible to get enough deep bass without messing up the lower mids of the satellites.
Aloha from Hawaii! Excellent video Paul, I really appreciate your attention to detail in your explanations. One follow-up question though - Should I run the speaker wire from the power amp to the high-level input of the sub, then run more wire from the subs high level output to the speakers (hopefully using the subs built in crossover), or should I run wire from speaker A to my mains, and wire from speaker B to the sub and run them in parallel? Any help is appreciated.
Actually the channel LFE ( the .1 thing) is no more used by IMax. They use this channel for "height channel ". Bass management ( summing all channels using a op-amp , usually called as buffer and then it will go through signal processing ( in case of DSP) or active filter and phase correction of required. So go for an active filter ( you can do it yourself using any good op amp chips or buy a ready made subwoofer filter board and then fed the output to any class D amp board ( go for tda8954 if you have dual power supply or tda7498 or just use a class AB - tda 7293 bridge parellel to deliver true 400 watts
Hello Paul. I really enjoy your videos. To me all this subwoofer stuff just complicates the whole Hi-Fi system. I came from an era whereby a great setup consisted of a speaker that had a horn or a tweeter level and a midrange horn and then 15" woofers in the bottom of the speakers. My Fisher Studio Standard from the 80's had that. Therefore complimenting your theory that the sub should make the towers sound as if they were producing the bass. If only I could find in decent shape or new speakers as I mentioned this would accomplish what I like. All this cross over stuff is beyond me. One should not need to be an electronics or sound engineer nor put thousands into a sound system as my 64 year old ears are not going to hear the difference between a $200 turntable and a $5,000 turntable. In my teenage years I purchased at age 14 a brand new Magnavox Astro-Sonic 100 watts with treble horns and 15 inch bass woofers. All the sound I ever needed and with a wonderful Collaro fully automatic turntable. Wish I had it back :-)
Thanks to your advice, I recently connected my subwoofer via the high level inputs in parallel out of the amp output. What a big difference!!! Is like a new system upgrade!! Thanks Maximo Iglesias Dominican Republic
My TBI DPM subs have never had a problem with disappearing no what pre-amps and/or amp and speaker combinations I have used. And I have always chosen the low level pre outs. Perfect sound!
My thoughts on this Is that if one is running bookshelf speakers then the speaker output / input suggestion to “sub” makes a lot of sense and should produce good results. By performing this suggestion the “sub” woofer is now acting as a “woofer” and subwoofer combo. What this is really saying though is that ideally the main speakers themselves should produce the “woofer” level. Floor standing speakers have this “woofer” section covered. Bookshelf speakers often use 1 6.5 or 5 or 4 in driver to produce mid bass and mids. We use a “sub” woofer to help fill in the bass. Too often sub maybe too big so there is deep bass and mids but no hard tight mid bass punch/kick. This is why I’m a fan of floor standing speakers that has a dedicated “woofer”. When paired with a “sub” woofer even better. I’m actually using the LFE sub outputs (have 2) from my pre-amp/ssp. So I’m technically running through two crossovers. I don’t think this is necessarily a bad thing. This can potentially reduce the 120hz hump some experience when combining woofer and subwoofers. I’m running amps to all speakers. 200x2 amp and 200x3 and 1 sub box with 2 12 in drivers one down-firing and the sub amp also has 200w. Bass is clean and tight and deep.
Seemed like a simple answer to a simple question but it took 7 minutes to get there ! LOL Love your stuff Paul , I was a big fan of Julian Hirsch and you remind me of him somewhat . Thanks as always for your insight
I agree with Paul, active sub connected to the amplifiers output. I recently bought an Audio Physic Terra, the original before it was named Rhea...My God, it is absolutely fantastic. Have a large room, and this beast can do 10hz almost flat..and when you stand right in front of it when playing REAL deep bass, you wonder whether it is active or not, you hear and feel nothing where it is. Once upon, and still, referred to as one of the few "True Subs"
If you do use the RCA outputs of a preamp be aware the extra load (resistive and capacitive) could present a problem if the preamp doesn't have low impedence output - some older preamps may not have low impedance outputs. If you suspect this just listen to the system with the sub sifnal cable disconnected and again with the cable connected but the sub powered off. If the high frequency response seems off with the sub connected you may have to find a different solution.
I have a few subs that only have RCA socket inputs, so I ended up modifying a few amplifiers to suit, all I am doing is taking the main amp stereo outs and running them though a simple voltage divider (no sub filtering etc) to feed an RCA socket 'sub out' socket. My initial reason for doing it this way was there was insufficient level from the main volume control, and the only other point past there is the main amp out's. I wanted the feed to be after the system's main volume control so that the sub's volume follows the main L&R stereo out levels.
Paul, I can't thank you enough for all your GREAT videos. I have learned so much! B.T.W. you would make an excellent teacher/professor you have a great demeanor and a really awesome way to explain things! Thank you again!
I’ve only just discovered PSAudio as a company and am so happy I did. Have watched heaps of Pauls’ videos now and everything he says resonates (see what I did there). RE: the subs, this validates everything I’ve come to know as well. I’ve got two REL T5/i subs, wired directly to the amp (one right, one left) in a 2.2 setup providing low end support for a pair of B&W CM5s2 bookshelf speakers (this is the last model B&W ever did with Kevlar yellow driver that didn’t have that horrible and bright tweeter-on-top design. My DAC is old... Emotiva XDA-2... 7 years old and doesn’t get the most out of this setup. On the hunt now for a replacement and PSAudio is top of my list, but harder to find in Australia. PS: Being in Boulder is icing on the cake! Colorado rocky mountain high!!
I'd love to see how you connect speaker terminal outputs on a power amplifier to any powered subwoofer. Just an extra set of speaker cables, in addition to the cables connected to the speakers the amp is already powering?
No, you need a special High Level to Low Level adapter cable for this, it's also used in the car industry to connect a sub to an amplifier that doesn't have an other pre outputs, I am also looking for it, in mine opinion PS audio is missing an opportunity here not making such a cable for all subwoofer enthusiasts that want to connect their sub to their amplifier outputs...
I’d have preferred to listen to this if you included signal level classifications. Also, some active subwoofers are connected serially, with the crossovers built-in. Even more systems are being designed with full DSP control for all speakers. Furthermore, the LFE input on a subwoofer corresponds to its own output channel in a surround mix. Normal bass comes out of the subwoofer below its crossover frequency. LFE can be added during the surround mix, but that goes to the dedicated LFE input on the type of subwoofer I mentioned. But I have much more experience with professional audio equipment compared to consumer equipment.
Are you doing LFE+Main? I just picked up my second 12" Klipsch r-120sw and both seem to only work in that setting. I do have non-parralel sub-outs on a new X-series denon.
Thank you! My entry-level Cambridge integrated amplifier has no subwoofer out, so I connected it to my subwoofer via the speaker outs. Because I only have one set of speaker outs I split the signal from my amp to my speakers and sub-woofer. I thought this was a compromise and was going to undo that when I upgrade my amp. Now, it seems I'll just leave all of these cables spliced and ignore any sub out that the new amp might have.
i've been using the preout on my integrated for years, i always assumed speaker level inputs were there in case you didn't have preouts. i can't see how speaker level would be a better signal, since rca would be far cleaner and more direct signal than the speaker level one. i will give it a try at some point.
I happen to have an SVS SB-3000 on order to arrive next week. It has 3 ways to connect up to it: a single LFE cable, two line level L/R cables, and wireless (for extra money), but no speaker cable inputs. My 2 channel integrated amp has one sub output with adjustable crossover from 20 to 140 Hz that can be bypassed for a no-sub system. I’m going to try both one and two cable setups. The ears will decide which to use.
Excellent video! Do you prefer connecting power amp >Sub >speakers to take stress off the mains using the subwoofers crossover, or power amp > Sub & speakers to just add punch? I have an Onkyo 504 which has speakers A, or B, or A+B, so I could technically switch the sub signal off and on which is nice, but this wouldn't cut any frequencies out from my mains.
Thanks Paul, I took your advice and hooked up my Dual SVS PB-1000 subs to the high level inputs using speaker cable from my XPA-2 amplifier. It did make a difference, one that I immediately heard. I am still dialing it in, but the sound, especially with 2 channel audio is more natural, blending in nicely with my SVS Ultra bookshelf speakers. I'm really liking the new sound.
@@kennethroymonterroyo5657 You can use two Y cables or two RCA adapters, one male RCA input with two Female RCA outputs x 2. Pretty easy to do. I have my SB3000 subs hooked up using the RCA adapters I bought on Amazon. RCA F Splitter Plug Adapter 1 Male to 2 Female Adapter - RCA Male to RCA Dual Female (4 Pack)
I have a passive sub, an old one that was sold by DAK. My AV receiver has a low level sub woofer output, and I'm using this to drive an external amp (70-100 watts per channel into 6 ohms which is the impedance of the DAK SW.) I use a Y cable to split the mono SW output to drive both channels of the external amp, which then drives each channel of the SW. The DAK SW is a passive one, with a speaker level crossover, it has outputs for the Left and Right main speakers, but I'm not using those. It's a dual VC speaker, and each VC is now driven by its own power amplifier.
Fantastic description and info. I wondered why a lot of subs had speaker inputs from the amp to the sub and then outputs back out again to the speakers , which now I see are not really needed and just complicate things with additional cabling ......you just need to use the inputs to sub either supplied with pre or speaker level inputs.... simple's ... I can't wait to experiment now.👍
Rel makes excellent subs, I owned one and enjoyed it for the time I had it. Vandersteen also makes excellent subs and they are connected through the amplifier as well, the difference in approach between REL and Vandersteen is, Vandersteen uses a crossover between the sub and it's connected to the amp and you select the output impedance of your amp and put that value into the crossover and Rel does not, they use a Neutrik Cable to connect to the sub, but they too are wired to the amp. When I had my Belles 20 preamp and a set of Emotiva subs, I too connected directly from the XLR on the sub to the 2nd output of the Belles XLR, which I enjoyed. The Vandersteen 2ce II Signatures (I own with 2- 2WQs) and the model 3 Signatures, do have bass by themselves, but I get your premise because the upper end of the Vandersteen line starting with the Quattro Trios, 5's and the mighty Model 7's do have sub built in for that deep bass fill in. Emotiva in Franklin, TN. also allows customers to come in and look around and I have met the President and CEO, Dan, who is an extremely nice person. This is an excellent practice Paul and I would love to eventually come by and hear your Infinity RS system one day. You seem like a generally nice person and good business man, keep up the good work on the channel.
Thank you Mr. Paul, In my closet of stereo stuff I haven’t used in years in a Yamaha YST SW200 sub. It has speaker level in /out and RCA in. Q1. Could I use the outs of the speakers level in /out and go to my audiophile speakers without degrading the audio signal to the speakers? Q2. I have a Yamaha receiver that has speaker B outs. I could use the B channel just to power the sub. The knob has a speaker A plus B Q3. I would like to use my McIntosh 2100 with either the Magnaplanars, Vandersteens or Focals. I like the smoothness of a vacuum amplifier in the same way that the analogue tv’s displayed differing gradations of gray to black vs a digital tv whereby you see big jumps or lines of contrast where the grays go to black. In either setup I would like to add my Yamaha YST. I could series the speakers and sub and then just use the higher resistance speaker out on the McIntosh. Q4. I could leave the music source to the McIntosh to the front speakers uncorrupted and use a powered RCA splitter (I have one) from the music source directly to a splitter then one pair out to the McIntosh 2100 and the other to the active RCA in on the subwoofer. I am unsure if the active RCA splitter injects noise or distortion unwanted into the 2100 signal path?
Could you please assist me. I have a Sony HT-M22 (5.1ch), but I don't like the bass. How can I connect an active sub to it, can I use the front channels to power it, I'm just afraid that the frequencies will not be low enough from the front channels
The question often asked once again left unanswered. Many people have a sub with only RCA inputs and a receiver or integrated with no preamp outs. I don't recall this effectively being addressed by anyone.
Steve Roginski I’ve seen people double up on the speaker connectors. On the L+R speaker inputs, wire from the banana plug goes out to not only the speaker, but to the subwoofer as well.
then you cant use that sub - amp combo. the only thing that would work for your case is a transformer box from high power output from amp to rca levels , dont think thats cheap or good for sound quality.
This is not my case or situation but a question I see asked just about everywhere and none of the "experts" ever respond. I do know of a way this is easily done however.
pls tell, now im curious, i have never been in that situation since i buy amps and subwoofers that have inputs and outputs i want. but if you have information that can benefits others pls tell.
If you don't have $2000 to drop on a REL subwoofer then the BIK America RTR subs are pretty good at an affordable price. The RTR-EV1200 ($220) has low-level and high-level speaker inputs and high level outputs as well. Plus, plenty of power to rattle pictures off the wall of an average size house. It's rated for 150w at less than 1% THD and 475 watt dynamic burst up to clipping -- so yea.
Thanks Paul! You just confirmed my experiences with my own set: Sonus Faber Cremona Auditors, connected to my REL Strata sub by using the high current input (REL has it's own cables with a neutrik plug at the subwoofers end, the other ends are connected to the speaker terminals of the amp) The sealed sub sounds very tight and competely integrated with the monitors. Just great sound!
I also hook up my duo JL Subwoofers e112 to the speakers terminals of the poweramp by very thin cables. Best result so far with my Maggies 3.7 speakers :)
My subwooefer was he first piece of gear I bought. Even when I was still using computer speakers and cd player on the PC, I had the 150watt KLH subwoofer and it still sounded "rich" (sort of.)
Great video. So if you use the speaker binding posts of the amplifier, do you have two sets of wires connected? One that runs to the speakers and one that runs to the sub?
We have a REL328 it's awesome. Connected as the maker recommended. Sub LFE output from home theatre amp to the sub input on the REL, and the speaker cable left / right Piggy backed from the dedicated front Left and right amp to the REL high level input. That dedicated front left / right amp is also for dedicated music listening. All works brilliantly.
The problem with your latter recommendation is that the sensitivity of most subwoofers is not going to match the sensitivity of most speakers. In my case I have a separate set of outputs coming out of my audio research receiver to drive my amplifiers and another set to drive my subwoofers but my Bryston amplifiers are way more sensitive than my subwoofer so the levels are wrong. I had to put three DB pads on the RCA inputs to my price to amplifiers.
I’m using a Logitech subwoofer that Came with my old computer speaker set. I have run the rca subwoofer Chablé from Walmart from the auxiliary RCA jack in the back, to the subwoofer out of an old Yamaha AVR I got off craigslist for $30. My main speakers are the Klipsch RP-150M for bedroom listening at my desk and movie watching. I got them from amazon for $260 in cherry veneer. Super happy with my purchases. Total cost including cables and avr was about $310. Happy birthday to me.
The REL subs use hi inputs and an LFE channel. That way, the sub is on all the time, even for 2 channel music. If you have not tried it, don't knock it until you hear it. Superb.
Thanks for your amazing videos! Question: I can only connect my amp to the subwoofer and from sub to speakers, but then the sounds starts cutting at high volume. If I connect amp to speakers first and use only one channel for the sub then it's fine. I am not sure why it's cutting off the sound if both channels are connected to the sub? If anyone have any idea why that happens please let me know. Many thanks
some visuals on how to hook up sub and then showing it working would b helpful .Some close ups of the jack input as well .lets see a demo of the sub working ....
I have to disagree with your last point Paul. If you have a very high quality component it can sound better than whatever is built into the subs. An example would be my 3-way system which uses a DEQX and no passive crossovers. It sounds far better than any passive (or built in active) crossover could.
The crossover is before the amp so you can still have an amp that's perfectly matched for the sub. You're just not using the low quality filters that's built into it and it can be perfectly crossed over (and in linear phase).
You can't have a servo sub because of signal processing? Who told you that? I own a Rythmik L12 which is a servo sub. I also use a MiniDSP 2x4HD to do all the DSP, so that includes the crossover. The Rythmik has an LFE port that bypasses the on-board crossover and phase settings. The servo works in conjunction with the amp in the sub. I also have 2 18" Ultimax passive subs powered by an iNuke that performs amazingly well so the idea of needing a "perfect" amp and a servo is ridiculous. No one should be using their subs built-in crossover/phase controls. A MiniDSP 2x4 gives you a better crossover, better time alignment and the ability to apply room correction. This $100 box does it better than any sub's built in controls. And if you are not measuring your system and not applying room correction than you are leaving A LOT of performance on the table.
Because I'm the umpteenth person to watch this Paul should send me his top disc player,. his top DAC, his top pre amp, his top 2 channel smplifier and his top speakers all with his favourite cables and wires and with free shipping to me here in Canada. This way I won't have to listen to Mahler on cheap equipment anymore, during my old age. And he will feel just wonderful about himself for doing it !!
I have the B&W ASW608 sub I just purchased. I have a Denon 9.2 receiver. Do I connect both "line out" cables to the receiver, or just one? Sorry, new to being an audiophile. I have a B&W 9.1 setup going (2 atmos speakers included) (no amp, just receiver)
BTW, Paul. Your suggestion to use the high-level outputs is excellent so the subs receives the same signal as the mains. I've not tried it myself but I think I shall. Along that same vein I'd like to suggest, whether using high or low-level inputs, the ic's or sc's (speaker cables) should be of the exact same mfg'er and model used elsewhere in the system to hopefully achieve much the same desired results you already described. In my experience, this has been a wonderful technique to better integrate and synergize the subs to the mains. In the case of your suggested high-level inputs, using the exact same speaker cables for the sub as the mains should be the icing on the cake by providing the best integration opportunities possible. I started this technique back in 2002 and I was amazed at how much better the sound gel'ed. I think this is a very important point about using exact same wiring because for decades so-called "experts" have been telling us that any cheap old cable to sub should be more than sufficient because after all we're only talking low-level frequencies and cabling really doesn't matter. Quality or at least similarities matter at all frequency levels and introducing such differences between the mains and sub far too often leads to a disjointed sound. Just don't tell the so-called "experts". :)
In addition to having the same type of speaker cables (in terms of materials), do you also think its important the length of the speaker cables are the same? If I'm running 12ft speaker cables to my main speakers do you think its fine to run an 8ft speaker cable to the sub? Or would you suggest both sets of cables be the same length?
Hi Paul, great channel. I alway like you Q & A video. After this video, I came up a question: Why we want a sub woofer as supplementary part to stereo speakers system rather than having a stereo speakers as supplementary to a subwoofer speaker(s) system?
I realize this is old video, but if you’re still listening. My JVC ja s77 amplifier has a left/right RCA pre out. Is this the same signal quality for using a sun or just stick with the speaker outs. Also say if you’re using both A and B channels and you’re running a sub with high level inputs and outputs then out to your speakers does the sun remove any of the signal? Love the channel, learning a lot.
As always you make learning feel like a fire side chat. I am keen to take your advice, my Active Sub does have Speaker level inputs. My Power amp only has L and R outs so I would have to use Y connectors or equivalent. Just to be shore I understand, you still recommend that? It does not 'Lessen' the main Speaker's feed or affect them ? From the logic of the Sub, the 'Crossover' does make sense it will not draw on the high frequencies ,I presume?
I own a REL, but, cannot use the amplifier connections due to the fact I am using 2 class D (digital) mono-blocks. The literature/videos indicate this is the ONE exception. So I have determined the 2nd best way is to make sure I am using identical RCA brand connections to the sub-woofers and system. Cheers!
No. It doesn’t work that way. You need to see a sub that allows high level inputs. There are also the outputs. So from your amp/receiver speaker + - out go into subwoofer high level + - input. There is another set of outputs that then go to the main speaker. This is not parallel. The sub is simply utilizing that “signal” to convert to line level like input which then gives you a full frequency range best signal to then crossover with the sub and then amplify. Per experience this gives the best overall full range sound. If you you the sub preline out then you’re already sending a filtered signal into another filtered crossover. The octave slope doubles. Example sub out from pre amp is crossed at 80hz below 12db and then you use the sub crossover which may be switchable or variable and also has a 12 db slope. So certain low frequency is rolling off at a 24 db slope which may make it sound like you are missing some “solid” mid bass. Some systems though have what is known as a 120hz hump which makes bass boomy and doesn’t sound good. So it isn’t always a bad thing to use the sub out. I’m actually using the sub out of my pre amp because I always thought this was supposed to be the way it should be hooked up. It sounds great right now but I’m tempted to try the way Paul is suggesting.
So if you're looking for a 101 base level tutorial you're in the wrong class. Paul just gave you more information in 7 minutes then most channel creators can manage in 30 minutes. That guy makes some ultra high end stuff and hes established himself in the audiophile world long ago and frankly doesn't have to even do theee videos but he does them to share professional tips and knowledge with those of us who have progressed beyond plugging speakers into the back of a unit with RCAs or upgraded plugs. My advice to you is to look up "Home AV Connections Gloassary" and start there before you start sticking stuff in holes. Just a suggestion.
You're saying there's no benefit to removing the 20-80Hz energy from your main speakers through the LFE RCA output?? Especially if they are smaller bookshelf speakers?
According to Dolby Laboratories, the '1' in the 5.1, 7.1, etc, is a discrete channel of only sub bass information at and below whatever hertz they specify. I don't think any 'filtering' is involved. That is older pro-logic surround analog technology, if I'm correctly mistaken?
Man, i've jumped across multiple high-end audio online stores in order to ask for advice via email or online chat, and have tried forums as well. After getting frustrated with their lack of knowledge and overall inconsistency, stumbling onto these videos is a breath of fresh air! I had all my questions answered in just two consise videos, without having to even ask. Cheers.
I love the enthusiasm of this guy!! He's so patient and consise when delivering his information. Plus he made me smile at the end. What a nice guy!!
This man is national treasure in my books lol
I'm fairly new to this but I come here often for some knowledge. Thanks Paul!!
My pleasure, and thanks for the kind words!
Paul, you got it only partially right. You will need to high-pass the main speakers to perfectly match output, reduce IMD and save some power handling (also energy). That's why the correct way of connecting a subwoofer is through a crossover, be it digital or analog.
what type of crossover product would you recommend for this? Ive also been wondering the same thing, thinking I can use the internal crossover in my AVR by using a second zone to send to the sub. I would much rather not have to use the second zone as it doesn't have the same delay adjustability as my main LR output.
Due to space limitations I can't have a fully separate set of speakers for my stereo and my home theater (plus I like to listen to multi-channel music sometimes, sue me ;) ), so I have my receiver with pre-amp outs running into a preamp with HT bypass into a 2 channel amp for my front/stereo speakers, which I have a smaller sealed sub connected from the amp to the high level inputs, I then have two ported subs connected to the '.2' outputs of my receiver, and I set my front speakers to 'large' so they aren't crossed over there and the other channels and LFE go to the other subs. I really like that setup.
Paul, I cannot thank you enough for this tidbit of info. While I knew this option for connecting equipment together existed, I had no idea how much of an improvement in sound quality it would make. Even on my entry level system consisting of an older Pioneer A/V receiver, a pair of Polk S20 bookshelf speakers and an ancient (lol) Sony 125w 12" subwoofer. (go ahead and feel free to laugh guys)
I asked about subwoofer connection a day ago and you kindly answered my question.
Your recommendation of connecting the sub directly to the amplifier has intrigued me.
My sub is a JL Audio e112 ( a pair ). When I got them, I took advantage of their technical help which is
is an over the phone call.
I have Ariel 7 Floor Standing Speakers. Conrad Johnson Pre-amp and Amp.
The Technician advised me to take cables from the Pre-amp Out to the JL e112’s Input and the JL e 112’s Outs to the Imputs of the Amp. Obviously using the right and left connections separately.
The e112’s have a Crossover knob and a Phase knob and also a flip switch for 180 or O settings .
Finally using the recommended crossover settings and then setting the phase to get the best response.
Thanks Paul for covering my question. I now have a Rel S3 SHO sub connected and really love it.
I bet you will; great subwoofer!
Actually the channel LFE ( the .1 thing) is no more used by IMax. They use this channel for "height channel ".
Bass management ( summing all channels using a op-amp , usually called as buffer and then it will go through signal processing ( in case of DSP) or active filter and phase correction of required.
So go for an active filter ( you can do it yourself using any good op amp chips or buy a ready made subwoofer filter board and then fed the output to any class D amp board ( go for tda8954 if you have dual power supply or tda7498 or just use a class AB - tda 7293 bridge parellel to deliver true 400 watts
Hopefully using the high level inputs! haha
I have gotta say, between your knowledge, your passion, and your sheer charm I have a hard time breaking away from watching your videos. Thanks for sharing the wealth, Mr. McGowan!
I’ve been doing this for years and absolutely love the sound. Audiophile snobs all had their opinions that I listened to but kept doing what I was doing. Why? Because I liked the sound and that’s why we own such luxuries is for the the sound reproduction that we personally enjoy. Thanks Paul
I've done it for twenty years with an Audiolab amp and Mordaunt Short Sub, at first it was only for movies but then just left it on for music.
Gave this a shot today with my Carver TrueSub. Love it! I find it blends with the music much more cohesively, and has far less of the "bump" sound commonly associated with a powered sub.
I really enjoy these videos when my dad wants me to go to bed early and I can’t sleep.Thank you so much.
Great video, Paul! I wanted to comment here that I recently made the switch from low level (RCA) inputs to high level (speaker) inputs on my Klipsch subwoofer. I was skeptical but the difference literally was night and day. Can't thank you enough for the encouragement.
Just came across this now, and wow, I didn't expect it. I would have thought a dedicated sub out was best, but this advice makes sense in the realm of audio. Thanks!
It is amazing the difference a sub woofer makes. When i moved from a house into an apartment i had to downsize my system.... happily replaced my floor standers with smaller bookshelf speakers.... but i had to keep the sub.
Wow just learned something new today from this video,I always assumed that you get a cleaner signal from your rca output but just the opposite gotta try this out when I get time
Thank you Paul. Thank God there are some real professionals like you who guide us through the ocean of fake information.
For a long time I've been trying to figure out who Paul sounds like. This video clinched it for me: David Letterman.
Andy B...so?
Paul has compassion in his voice that sets him way apart.
He does! Lol Great vids, very helpful...
Paul Dickerson my wife just loves Paul’s voice 😄
nahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
Didn’t have a subwoofer out on my amp so I ran the PSW 10 subwoofer line in off the left speaker input and it sounds great. I was afraid it would miss some of the bass but it didn’t. Left or right or combined it sounds the same- great! 👍👍👍
For LFE or "SUB" output, whether mono or stereo, I like to use shielded RCA cables. I make my own using shielded alarm cable and attatching the cable's shield to the RCA's shield on one end only, I chose the receiver end. It works great. The cable's aluminum shield "absorbs" any electrical noise and grounds it through the receiver. It sounds better than any other cable I've used, and allowed me to run it behind walls and cut to perfect length.
You are such a Kind spirit and I really enjoyed learning from you! Thank you!
This is very confusing. I have always heard that the best way to send a signal to a sub is through the low level (RCA) outputs. Which makes perfect sense to me as I would think the amplified signal (from the speaker outputs on the amp/receiver) would be degraded by the crossover network in the sub. I'd like to know if this is true or not. I just feel very leery of sending a high level signal to a sub crossover and expecting it to not be affected in some way. Great channel by the way!!!
Wow, you answered so many questions I had, but was afraid to ask. Thank you so much for sharing your vast knowledge with everyone!
I can’t believe I have discovered this channel just recently. The amount of valuable info is amazing! Thank you for all you do and I’m going to take on the invitation to Colorado and start saving. Because I know I will be converted and will be buying some of the hi fi from PS audio
Thank you for this video! I am re-arranging my humble system and was going to use the RCA jacks on my M&K sub thinking it would be a preferred setup. I was wrong and I thank you for explaining to me the how & why of using the speaker outs instead of the preamp outs. Very much appreciate!
Added a pair of Rel T5 subs into my two channel system about 5 years ago, connected as you suggest, and have never looked back. I'm actually not a fan of excessive bass, just want to be able to hear the full range of the recording. Would have to say, other than changing speakers, it has been easily the biggest upgrade I have made in my system. Highly recommended. Great vid Paul.
I'm just a newbie to this, but am baffled as to "how" a pair of subs can be added to a system when only one "sub out" is usually in integrated amps, how did you add your two subs if you don't mind me asking? And what amp did you use to add them?
Fantastic explanation Paul. As someone who has dabbled in professional audio equipment for 20 years, I have somehow dodged the use of a subwoofer. Now I don't feel so insecure when I see one, and will look to purchase an active unit to play around with.
paul seems like a great boss. all employees are smiling at the end
Thanks Paul, nice presentation and very useful. Might I add that a main reason for using the high-level connection is that you can just set the SW volume and cross-over levels once and forget about it. When using the line input you have to keep adjusting the SW volume every time you adjust the main volume. Not the way to go. Additionally, my SW has an auto power on/off, responding to the input signal. I do not even have to switch it on and off.
Every video i watch empties my bank account just a little more.
Its a vicious cycle isn't it?
lul
I really like your no bs approach. Love the excitement. And you don't just "sell" your products! Excellent stuff.
Paul, your clear and intelligent suggestions enabled me to hook up my 'vintage' Technics Amp to my Energy MS Sub. (now sounds great) You simplified a task that cut thru all the online 'Gumbo'. Bravo and Thanks
This is interesting. This is how I've connected to my sub. I'm using a NAD 2600 amplifier with an extra set of speaker wires to a basic Energy subwoofer (that has the high level inputs). What amazes me is that no matter how loud I push the system (and it will be super clean and too loud even for me) the Energy sub never has a problem. No bottoming out. No distortion. It actually keeps up, although at some point (I feel) where the volume is high, the sub doesn't get any louder. All in all this has always amazed me. I've always attributed this to the NAD (and built in protection of the Energy sub). And yes, it makes my ordinary speakers sing.
I hooked up my Rel T9 sub to the high level output on my new Cyrus One amp to the speaker terminals like you said but it just made a throbbing sound on my sub. There are 4 terminals for each speaker on the amp for bi wiring so I hooked them up to the same ones as the speakers. Will need to figure this one out as I do what to have full range on my speakers. I love your channel Paul all the way from Scotland.
My sub (an active one) is connected exactly the way Paul sais (from the speaker power outputs of my amp) and the sound of my system is indeed amazingly rich. With a natural bass (deep and light in the same time), completely different than the one my home cinema system is producing. Perfect for music enjoyment. 😌🎶
Hi Paul, one of the main challenges here is blending the subwoofer properly - could you cover this topic in one of your videos? Thanks
Paul has already told you ..! Just make sure the sub is in phase and the xo frequency is correctly aligned and there you have it ! Simple ..😊 Adjust the sub level to suite your own preference...
@@janinapalmer8368 There is no correct xover frequency. It's a trade-off. But if the crossover slope isn't steep enough it might be impossible to get enough deep bass without messing up the lower mids of the satellites.
Aloha from Hawaii! Excellent video Paul, I really appreciate your attention to detail in your explanations. One follow-up question though - Should I run the speaker wire from the power amp to the high-level input of the sub, then run more wire from the subs high level output to the speakers (hopefully using the subs built in crossover), or should I run wire from speaker A to my mains, and wire from speaker B to the sub and run them in parallel? Any help is appreciated.
Pity you didn't get a reply. I'd love to know too. Also does this mean there should be a sub per channel?
I also need the answer
+1
There is another way. My 2-channel integrated NAD amp has a pre-amp out, not a sub out. Works great with my Martin Logan sub.
Actually the channel LFE ( the .1 thing) is no more used by IMax. They use this channel for "height channel ".
Bass management ( summing all channels using a op-amp , usually called as buffer and then it will go through signal processing ( in case of DSP) or active filter and phase correction of required.
So go for an active filter ( you can do it yourself using any good op amp chips or buy a ready made subwoofer filter board and then fed the output to any class D amp board ( go for tda8954 if you have dual power supply or tda7498 or just use a class AB - tda 7293 bridge parellel to deliver true 400 watts
Hello Paul. I really enjoy your videos. To me all this subwoofer stuff just complicates the whole Hi-Fi system. I came from an era whereby a great setup consisted of a speaker that had a horn or a tweeter level and a midrange horn and then 15" woofers in the bottom of the speakers. My Fisher Studio Standard from the 80's had that. Therefore complimenting your theory that the sub should make the towers sound as if they were producing the bass. If only I could find in decent shape or new speakers as I mentioned this would accomplish what I like. All this cross over stuff is beyond me. One should not need to be an electronics or sound engineer nor put thousands into a sound system as my 64 year old ears are not going to hear the difference between a $200 turntable and a $5,000 turntable. In my teenage years I purchased at age 14 a brand new Magnavox Astro-Sonic 100 watts with treble horns and 15 inch bass woofers. All the sound I ever needed and with a wonderful Collaro fully automatic turntable. Wish I had it back :-)
Thanks to your advice, I recently connected my subwoofer via the high level inputs in parallel out of the amp output.
What a big difference!!! Is like a new system upgrade!!
Thanks
Maximo Iglesias
Dominican Republic
My TBI DPM subs have never had a problem with disappearing no what pre-amps and/or amp and speaker combinations I have used. And I have always chosen the low level pre outs. Perfect sound!
My thoughts on this Is that if one is running bookshelf speakers then the speaker output / input suggestion to “sub” makes a lot of sense and should produce good results.
By performing this suggestion the “sub” woofer is now acting as a “woofer” and subwoofer combo.
What this is really saying though is that ideally the main speakers themselves should produce the “woofer” level. Floor standing speakers have this “woofer” section covered.
Bookshelf speakers often use 1 6.5 or 5 or 4 in driver to produce mid bass and mids. We use a “sub” woofer to help fill in the bass. Too often sub maybe too big so there is deep bass and mids but no hard tight mid bass punch/kick.
This is why I’m a fan of floor standing speakers that has a dedicated “woofer”. When paired with a “sub” woofer even better.
I’m actually using the LFE sub outputs (have 2) from my pre-amp/ssp. So I’m technically running through two crossovers. I don’t think this is necessarily a bad thing. This can potentially reduce the 120hz hump some experience when combining woofer and subwoofers.
I’m running amps to all speakers. 200x2 amp and 200x3 and 1 sub box with 2 12 in drivers one down-firing and the sub amp also has 200w. Bass is clean and tight and deep.
Paul, maybe a follow-up video to discuss how to blend a sub into a stereo system using the common controls on a sub for phase, HPF, and level?
Karl Salnoske, I was thinking the same thing. How about it Paul? LOL
Seemed like a simple answer to a simple question but it took 7 minutes to get there ! LOL Love your stuff Paul , I was a big fan of Julian Hirsch and you remind me of him somewhat . Thanks as always for your insight
I agree with Paul, active sub connected to the amplifiers output. I recently bought an Audio Physic Terra, the original before it was named Rhea...My God, it is absolutely fantastic. Have a large room, and this beast can do 10hz almost flat..and when you stand right in front of it when playing REAL deep bass, you wonder whether it is active or not, you hear and feel nothing where it is. Once upon, and still, referred to as one of the few "True Subs"
Hey Paul! Thanks for making this and all your other vids... Your enthusiasm and love of what you do shine through!
If you do use the RCA outputs of a preamp be aware the extra load (resistive and capacitive) could present a problem if the preamp doesn't have low impedence output - some older preamps may not have low impedance outputs. If you suspect this just listen to the system with the sub sifnal cable disconnected and again with the cable connected but the sub powered off.
If the high frequency response seems off with the sub connected you may have to find a different solution.
I have a few subs that only have RCA socket inputs, so I ended up modifying a few amplifiers to suit, all I am doing is taking the main amp stereo outs and running them though a simple voltage divider (no sub filtering etc) to feed an RCA socket 'sub out' socket. My initial reason for doing it this way was there was insufficient level from the main volume control, and the only other point past there is the main amp out's. I wanted the feed to be after the system's main volume control so that the sub's volume follows the main L&R stereo out levels.
Paul, I can't thank you enough for all your GREAT videos. I have learned so much! B.T.W. you would make an excellent teacher/professor you have a great demeanor and a really awesome way to explain things! Thank you again!
I was thinking the same, I wish I had him as my advance accounting professor, I would have ended up with an A+.
I’ve only just discovered PSAudio as a company and am so happy I did. Have watched heaps of Pauls’ videos now and everything he says resonates (see what I did there).
RE: the subs, this validates everything I’ve come to know as well. I’ve got two REL T5/i subs, wired directly to the amp (one right, one left) in a 2.2 setup providing low end support for a pair of B&W CM5s2 bookshelf speakers (this is the last model B&W ever did with Kevlar yellow driver that didn’t have that horrible and bright tweeter-on-top design.
My DAC is old... Emotiva XDA-2... 7 years old and doesn’t get the most out of this setup. On the hunt now for a replacement and PSAudio is top of my list, but harder to find in Australia.
PS: Being in Boulder is icing on the cake! Colorado rocky mountain high!!
I'd love to see how you connect speaker terminal outputs on a power amplifier to any powered subwoofer. Just an extra set of speaker cables, in addition to the cables connected to the speakers the amp is already powering?
No, you need a special High Level to Low Level adapter cable for this, it's also used in the car industry to connect a sub to an amplifier that doesn't have an other pre outputs, I am also looking for it, in mine opinion PS audio is missing an opportunity here not making such a cable for all subwoofer enthusiasts that want to connect their sub to their amplifier outputs...
I’d have preferred to listen to this if you included signal level classifications. Also, some active subwoofers are connected serially, with the crossovers built-in. Even more systems are being designed with full DSP control for all speakers. Furthermore, the LFE input on a subwoofer corresponds to its own output channel in a surround mix. Normal bass comes out of the subwoofer below its crossover frequency. LFE can be added during the surround mix, but that goes to the dedicated LFE input on the type of subwoofer I mentioned. But I have much more experience with professional audio equipment compared to consumer equipment.
Picking up my 2nd subwoofer this evening. Meaning first time to run dual subs in home theatre. WOOHOO.
Are you doing LFE+Main? I just picked up my second 12" Klipsch r-120sw and both seem to only work in that setting. I do have non-parralel sub-outs on a new X-series denon.
Thank you! My entry-level Cambridge integrated amplifier has no subwoofer out, so I connected it to my subwoofer via the speaker outs. Because I only have one set of speaker outs I split the signal from my amp to my speakers and sub-woofer. I thought this was a compromise and was going to undo that when I upgrade my amp. Now, it seems I'll just leave all of these cables spliced and ignore any sub out that the new amp might have.
so to conclude i can use the line out rca from my amp to connect to a subwoofer, correct? ... love your channel ... you have given so much knowledge
Great explanation of what the high level input is. I’ve never been clear on it till now. Thank you. Now I understand why Rel recommends using it
Good. Glad I could help. There's lots of terms bandied about. Sometimes confusing for us all.
I have a Velodyne Sub which I haven't used in years because I questioned how to hook it to newer equipment.
i've been using the preout on my integrated for years, i always assumed speaker level inputs were there in case you didn't have preouts. i can't see how speaker level would be a better signal, since rca would be far cleaner and more direct signal than the speaker level one. i will give it a try at some point.
I happen to have an SVS SB-3000 on order to arrive next week. It has 3 ways to connect up to it: a single LFE cable, two line level L/R cables, and wireless (for extra money), but no speaker cable inputs. My 2 channel integrated amp has one sub output with adjustable crossover from 20 to 140 Hz that can be bypassed for a no-sub system. I’m going to try both one and two cable setups. The ears will decide which to use.
Excellent video! Do you prefer connecting power amp >Sub >speakers to take stress off the mains using the subwoofers crossover, or power amp > Sub & speakers to just add punch? I have an Onkyo 504 which has speakers A, or B, or A+B, so I could technically switch the sub signal off and on which is nice, but this wouldn't cut any frequencies out from my mains.
Thanks Paul, I took your advice and hooked up my Dual SVS PB-1000 subs to the high level inputs using speaker cable from my XPA-2 amplifier. It did make a difference, one that I immediately heard. I am still dialing it in, but the sound, especially with 2 channel audio is more natural, blending in nicely with my SVS Ultra bookshelf speakers. I'm really liking the new sound.
How? I have dual sb2000 how do you connect it to a 2 ch amp?
@@kennethroymonterroyo5657 You can use two Y cables or two RCA adapters, one male RCA input with two Female RCA outputs x 2. Pretty easy to do. I have my SB3000 subs hooked up using the RCA adapters I bought on Amazon. RCA F Splitter Plug Adapter 1 Male to 2 Female Adapter - RCA Male to RCA Dual Female (4 Pack)
I have a passive sub, an old one that was sold by DAK. My AV receiver has a low level sub woofer output, and I'm using this to drive an external amp (70-100 watts per channel into 6 ohms which is the impedance of the DAK SW.) I use a Y cable to split the mono SW output to drive both channels of the external amp, which then drives each channel of the SW. The DAK SW is a passive one, with a speaker level crossover, it has outputs for the Left and Right main speakers, but I'm not using those. It's a dual VC speaker, and each VC is now driven by its own power amplifier.
Fantastic description and info. I wondered why a lot of subs had speaker inputs from the amp to the sub and then outputs back out again to the speakers , which now I see are not really needed and just complicate things with additional cabling ......you just need to use the inputs to sub either supplied with pre or speaker level inputs.... simple's ... I can't wait to experiment now.👍
Rel makes excellent subs, I owned one and enjoyed it for the time I had it. Vandersteen also makes excellent subs and they are connected through the amplifier as well, the difference in approach between REL and Vandersteen is, Vandersteen uses a crossover between the sub and it's connected to the amp and you select the output impedance of your amp and put that value into the crossover and Rel does not, they use a Neutrik Cable to connect to the sub, but they too are wired to the amp. When I had my Belles 20 preamp and a set of Emotiva subs, I too connected directly from the XLR on the sub to the 2nd output of the Belles XLR, which I enjoyed.
The Vandersteen 2ce II Signatures (I own with 2- 2WQs) and the model 3 Signatures, do have bass by themselves, but I get your premise because the upper end of the Vandersteen line starting with the Quattro Trios, 5's and the mighty Model 7's do have sub built in for that deep bass fill in. Emotiva in Franklin, TN. also allows customers to come in and look around and I have met the President and CEO, Dan, who is an extremely nice person. This is an excellent practice Paul and I would love to eventually come by and hear your Infinity RS system one day. You seem like a generally nice person and good business man, keep up the good work on the channel.
Thank you Mr. Paul,
In my closet of stereo stuff I haven’t used in years in a Yamaha YST SW200 sub. It has speaker level in /out and RCA in.
Q1. Could I use the outs of the speakers level in /out and go to my audiophile speakers without degrading the audio signal to the speakers?
Q2. I have a Yamaha receiver that has speaker B outs. I could use the B channel just to power the sub. The knob has a speaker A plus B
Q3. I would like to use my McIntosh 2100 with either the Magnaplanars, Vandersteens or Focals. I like the smoothness of a vacuum amplifier in the same way that the analogue tv’s displayed differing gradations of gray to black vs a digital tv whereby you see big jumps or lines of contrast where the grays go to black. In either setup I would like to add my Yamaha YST. I could series the speakers and sub and then just use the higher resistance speaker out on the McIntosh.
Q4. I could leave the music source to the McIntosh to the front speakers uncorrupted and use a powered RCA splitter (I have one) from the music source directly to a splitter then one pair out to the McIntosh 2100 and the other to the active RCA in on the subwoofer. I am unsure if the active RCA splitter injects noise or distortion unwanted into the 2100 signal path?
Great presentation Don , I always been a fan. Your performance on three's company was brilliant 👏..
Could you please assist me. I have a Sony HT-M22 (5.1ch), but I don't like the bass. How can I connect an active sub to it, can I use the front channels to power it, I'm just afraid that the frequencies will not be low enough from the front channels
The question often asked once again left unanswered. Many people have a sub with only RCA inputs and a receiver or integrated with no preamp outs. I don't recall this effectively being addressed by anyone.
Steve Roginski I’ve seen people double up on the speaker connectors. On the L+R speaker inputs, wire from the banana plug goes out to not only the speaker, but to the subwoofer as well.
then you cant use that sub - amp combo. the only thing that would work for your case is a transformer box from high power output from amp to rca levels , dont think thats cheap or good for sound quality.
This is not my case or situation but a question I see asked just about everywhere and none of the "experts" ever respond. I do know of a way this is easily done however.
pls tell, now im curious, i have never been in that situation since i buy amps and subwoofers that have inputs and outputs i want. but if you have information that can benefits others pls tell.
Use a DI-Box
If you don't have $2000 to drop on a REL subwoofer then the BIK America RTR subs are pretty good at an affordable price. The RTR-EV1200 ($220) has low-level and high-level speaker inputs and high level outputs as well. Plus, plenty of power to rattle pictures off the wall of an average size house. It's rated for 150w at less than 1% THD and 475 watt dynamic burst up to clipping -- so yea.
Great overview Paul ! Thank you ! You demystify things so well !
I am trying. Thanks for watching!
Thanks Paul! You just confirmed my experiences with my own set: Sonus Faber Cremona Auditors, connected to my REL Strata sub by using the high current input (REL has it's own cables with a neutrik plug at the subwoofers end, the other ends are connected to the speaker terminals of the amp)
The sealed sub sounds very tight and competely integrated with the monitors. Just great sound!
I also hook up my duo JL Subwoofers e112 to the speakers terminals of the poweramp by very thin cables. Best result so far with my Maggies 3.7 speakers :)
My subwooefer was he first piece of gear I bought. Even when I was still using computer speakers and cd player on the PC, I had the 150watt KLH subwoofer and it still sounded "rich" (sort of.)
Great video. So if you use the speaker binding posts of the amplifier, do you have two sets of wires connected? One that runs to the speakers and one that runs to the sub?
Night and day difference by using the live amp input and output to front channel speakers. Though my subwoofer was shitty at first now sounds amazing.
Have a McIntosh 1700 receiver hooked up to Bose 301 Series II speakers. Hooking up to a Sunfire Jr sub with Paul's instructions. Big difference.
Thank you Paul so much for such a helpful and clear solution I've long awaited!
We have a REL328 it's awesome. Connected as the maker recommended. Sub LFE output from home theatre amp to the sub input on the REL, and the speaker cable left / right Piggy backed from the dedicated front Left and right amp to the REL high level input. That dedicated front left / right amp is also for dedicated music listening. All works brilliantly.
The problem with your latter recommendation is that the sensitivity of most subwoofers is not going to match the sensitivity of most speakers. In my case I have a separate set of outputs coming out of my audio research receiver to drive my amplifiers and another set to drive my subwoofers but my Bryston amplifiers are way more sensitive than my subwoofer so the levels are wrong. I had to put three DB pads on the RCA inputs to my price to amplifiers.
I’m using a Logitech subwoofer that Came with my old computer speaker set. I have run the rca subwoofer Chablé from Walmart from the auxiliary RCA jack in the back, to the subwoofer out of an old Yamaha AVR I got off craigslist for $30. My main speakers are the Klipsch RP-150M for bedroom listening at my desk and movie watching. I got them from amazon for $260 in cherry veneer. Super happy with my purchases. Total cost including cables and avr was about $310. Happy birthday to me.
Hi Paul, but when you connect the speaker output to the sub, then you get the sound signature of the amp in the sub, no?
@Christopher Hayden do you have A and B channels (2 left, 2 right)? If yes, just run the outs of the B channel to the sub. Run the A to your speakers.
The REL subs use hi inputs and an LFE channel. That way, the sub is on all the time, even for 2 channel music. If you have not tried it, don't knock it until you hear it. Superb.
Thank you for an outstanding video on how to hook up a subwoofer.
My pleasure. Thanks for watching and reaching out.
Thanks for your amazing videos! Question: I can only connect my amp to the subwoofer and from sub to speakers, but then the sounds starts cutting at high volume. If I connect amp to speakers first and use only one channel for the sub then it's fine. I am not sure why it's cutting off the sound if both channels are connected to the sub? If anyone have any idea why that happens please let me know. Many thanks
some visuals on how to hook up sub and then showing it working would b helpful .Some close ups of the jack input as well .lets see a demo of the sub working ....
I have to disagree with your last point Paul. If you have a very high quality component it can sound better than whatever is built into the subs. An example would be my 3-way system which uses a DEQX and no passive crossovers. It sounds far better than any passive (or built in active) crossover could.
but then you cant have a servo sub and an amp perfect matched for the subwoofer
The crossover is before the amp so you can still have an amp that's perfectly matched for the sub. You're just not using the low quality filters that's built into it and it can be perfectly crossed over (and in linear phase).
you can have a matched amp, but it require work and research and testing. and you still cant have a servo controlled sub.
You can't have a servo sub because of signal processing? Who told you that? I own a Rythmik L12 which is a servo sub. I also use a MiniDSP 2x4HD to do all the DSP, so that includes the crossover. The Rythmik has an LFE port that bypasses the on-board crossover and phase settings. The servo works in conjunction with the amp in the sub. I also have 2 18" Ultimax passive subs powered by an iNuke that performs amazingly well so the idea of needing a "perfect" amp and a servo is ridiculous.
No one should be using their subs built-in crossover/phase controls. A MiniDSP 2x4 gives you a better crossover, better time alignment and the ability to apply room correction. This $100 box does it better than any sub's built in controls. And if you are not measuring your system and not applying room correction than you are leaving A LOT of performance on the table.
Because I'm the umpteenth person to watch this Paul should send me his top disc player,. his top DAC, his top pre amp, his top 2 channel smplifier and his top speakers all with his favourite cables and wires and with free shipping to me here in Canada. This way I won't have to listen to Mahler on cheap equipment anymore, during my old age. And he will feel just wonderful about himself for doing it !!
I have the B&W ASW608 sub I just purchased. I have a Denon 9.2
receiver. Do I connect both "line out" cables to the receiver, or just
one? Sorry, new to being an audiophile. I have a B&W 9.1 setup going
(2 atmos speakers included) (no amp, just receiver)
BTW, Paul. Your suggestion to use the high-level outputs is excellent so the subs receives the same signal as the mains. I've not tried it myself but I think I shall. Along that same vein I'd like to suggest, whether using high or low-level inputs, the ic's or sc's (speaker cables) should be of the exact same mfg'er and model used elsewhere in the system to hopefully achieve much the same desired results you already described. In my experience, this has been a wonderful technique to better integrate and synergize the subs to the mains. In the case of your suggested high-level inputs, using the exact same speaker cables for the sub as the mains should be the icing on the cake by providing the best integration opportunities possible.
I started this technique back in 2002 and I was amazed at how much better the sound gel'ed. I think this is a very important point about using exact same wiring because for decades so-called "experts" have been telling us that any cheap old cable to sub should be more than sufficient because after all we're only talking low-level frequencies and cabling really doesn't matter. Quality or at least similarities matter at all frequency levels and introducing such differences between the mains and sub far too often leads to a disjointed sound. Just don't tell the so-called "experts". :)
In addition to having the same type of speaker cables (in terms of materials), do you also think its important the length of the speaker cables are the same? If I'm running 12ft speaker cables to my main speakers do you think its fine to run an 8ft speaker cable to the sub? Or would you suggest both sets of cables be the same length?
Hi Paul, great channel. I alway like you Q & A video. After this video, I came up a question: Why we want a sub woofer as supplementary part to stereo speakers system rather than having a stereo speakers as supplementary to a subwoofer speaker(s) system?
I just bought a Marantz Model 50 two channel stereo amplifier, and it has a single RCA subwoofer output.
I realize this is old video, but if you’re still listening. My JVC ja s77 amplifier has a left/right RCA pre out. Is this the same signal quality for using a sun or just stick with the speaker outs. Also say if you’re using both A and B channels and you’re running a sub with high level inputs and outputs then out to your speakers does the sun remove any of the signal? Love the channel, learning a lot.
As always you make learning feel like a fire side chat.
I am keen to take your advice, my Active Sub does have Speaker level inputs.
My Power amp only has L and R outs so I would have to use Y connectors or equivalent. Just to be shore I understand, you still recommend that? It does not 'Lessen' the main Speaker's feed or affect them ?
From the logic of the Sub, the 'Crossover' does make sense it will not draw on the high frequencies ,I presume?
I own a REL, but, cannot use the amplifier connections due to the fact I am using 2 class D (digital) mono-blocks. The literature/videos indicate this is the ONE exception. So I have determined the 2nd best way is to make sure I am using identical RCA brand connections to the sub-woofers and system. Cheers!
Often wondered how I'd connect a sub and what type of sub do I use so thank you so much for the review PS.🤟
You're a very pleasant person to listen to. Thanks for the info and great videos. I've subscribed.
But the high level inputs are busy with the speakers! I guess you mean connecting in parallel right? Thanks for the video, much appreciated
No. It doesn’t work that way. You need to see a sub that allows high level inputs. There are also the outputs.
So from your amp/receiver speaker + - out go into subwoofer high level + - input. There is another set of outputs that then go to the main speaker. This is not parallel.
The sub is simply utilizing that “signal” to convert to line level like input which then gives you a full frequency range best signal to then crossover with the sub and then amplify.
Per experience this gives the best overall full range sound.
If you you the sub preline out then you’re already sending a filtered signal into another filtered crossover. The octave slope doubles.
Example sub out from pre amp is crossed at 80hz below 12db and then you use the sub crossover which may be switchable or variable and also has a 12 db slope. So certain low frequency is rolling off at a 24 db slope which may make it sound like you are missing some “solid” mid bass.
Some systems though have what is known as a 120hz hump which makes bass boomy and doesn’t sound good. So it isn’t always a bad thing to use the sub out.
I’m actually using the sub out of my pre amp because I always thought this was supposed to be the way it should be hooked up. It sounds great right now but I’m tempted to try the way Paul is suggesting.
Got some 2 wire signal cord from work and daisy chained my kc62 off my ls50 metas, lot cleaner than an rca cord out the back
VISUALS would be helpful. Like actually SHOWING how to connect a Sub to a 2Ch Power Amp then to speakers. Just a suggestion!
So if you're looking for a 101 base level tutorial you're in the wrong class. Paul just gave you more information in 7 minutes then most channel creators can manage in 30 minutes. That guy makes some ultra high end stuff and hes established himself in the audiophile world long ago and frankly doesn't have to even do theee videos but he does them to share professional tips and knowledge with those of us who have progressed beyond plugging speakers into the back of a unit with RCAs or upgraded plugs. My advice to you is to look up "Home AV Connections Gloassary" and start there before you start sticking stuff in holes. Just a suggestion.
You're saying there's no benefit to removing the 20-80Hz energy from your main speakers through the LFE RCA output?? Especially if they are smaller bookshelf speakers?
I have an older stereo receiver without a sub output. Does this mean I can use the tape output?
No. Connect to the speakers or pre out if it has one.
According to Dolby Laboratories, the '1' in the 5.1, 7.1, etc, is a discrete channel of only sub bass information at and below whatever hertz they specify. I don't think any 'filtering' is involved. That is older pro-logic surround analog technology, if I'm correctly mistaken?