The Vegan Cyclist unique fasting diet to reach 5 w/kg FTP | My Thoughts
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- Опубліковано 13 вер 2024
- Taking a look at The Vegan Cyclists diet during his "train like a pro" series, and providing a counter-point to some of the ideas behind his diet.
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I remember I fasted for 30h after a 2000cal zone 2 ride. It took my fitness backwards about 5 months. Took a long time to recover. Never will I do that again.
😵😡😧😮😮😮
Sounds awful 🫤
Wel that's not clever and has nothing to do with the video... also I doubt it will set u back 5 months.. after couple days u should be fine again so maybe ur sick
Jesse, I'm binge watching your videos after discovering them recently. Gotta say, clear-headed, logical intelligent, and well-informed analysis is such a breath of fresh air. Feel like I'm learning a huge amount of really valuable stuff
I really don't get the whole fasted riding thing. People I've met who do it are never the fast guys, not eating and always completely cooked after 3 or 4 hours on the pedals. I like the saying - don't diet on the bike.
Exactly and those exact guys are those who would eat a whole fridge after ride and binge 5000 kcal :D not even the ride sucks but They killing their potential performance gains as well as body composition, 100% worth it lol
Really good analysis, chronic glycogen depletion... big take away !! Lots of good tips !! Thanks
Great video Jesse!
Intermittent fasting = eating disorder.
Look how cooked his eyes look. Tyler needs to look after himself or totally lose it.
Tyler with his wacky diet would drop you though.
@@ashcameron7677 I don't actually think so. 5wkg isn't that impressive. Especially with training that much. If he just ate properly he would be way faster
@@cnay2983 it's impressive
@@cnay2983 Durianrider at his best and Vegan cyclist worked super hard to get to about 5 watts per kilo ftp. You have to respect those guys.
@@ashcameron7677 yeah I respect VC for sure! But his 'unhealthy relationship with food' as he titles this videos, has definately impacted his performance. The difference between VC and Durian rider is that durian rider doesn't train like a pro yet he carries elite level fitness (look at his running PR's).
The fitter you are - the more KJ's you can burn - the more you need to eat.
Im not a follower of Durianrider anymore but I was 8 years ago and I still carb the fuck up (fuel the work as a I call it now). Its just common sense.
This is a rad channel. Found you off the DR video. Hope this blows up.
I really like yours honest comments, no BS on them. Great job mate.
He does not do this anymore. He said recently (like a month or so ago) that he stopped intermittent fasting more than 14 hours at a time a while ago. He said it was very difficult to build muscle mass and his protein synthesis wasn't good. He does 12-14hr fasts as of about a year ago (which is pretty normal).
really enjoyed this Jesse, your critique was great
great video Jesse,,, watch VC a bit and his adventures are great but the diet seems a bit wacko but what ever works ( placebos are great) ... think your advice is great ...carbs to fuel for now and aid recovery and better training in the future .. small gains moving forward. thanks again
Best way to understand how fasting effects the body is to watch the Reality TV show 'Alone' (SBS or Binge). You see basically see folks stave themselves. The energy expenditure without calories gets smaller and smaller each day as they fail to 'top up' their stores.
Great video, it’s reassuring to see someone actually analysing and critiquing the kind of (often dangerous) misinformation being peddled by”influencers” so often. I don’t think they’re being disingenuous, they just don’t understand the science and their spreading of misinformation is unfortunate but not I’ll-intended. It’s just a shame that so many people blindly take tips from these people based on their fame rather than any kind of qualification
Great video as always. I love your vids that focus on fuelling performance.
This is a complex subject. Dr.Jason Fung explains fasting and intermittent fasting best.Also Dr.Neal Barnard covers this & insulin resistance.Health should come first,then performance,Tyler does not look good.
Fung and others are , IMO, talking to and about chronic couch 🥔. Berg, Fung, etc. as well intentioned as they might be, they are not good sources for long term performance, growth, recovery....and I agree regarding his stoutness. I love biking but for my line of work I need to be stout and able to use full body strength. Good points.
Beautiful... to paraphrase Jesse: "fueling is not a min/max problem, it's an optimization problem". I never thought about it like that. Btw, this is how Josh Poertner describes bike stiffness.
I would love to hear your opinion today after he has picked the fruits. It seems to me that even though he gained muscle mass, he was able to take the championship in endurance riding, this means that he did do something right.
There is one guy around who used to say: "Carb the F*ck up!!!"
Harley aka Durian rider Johnson. I'm 100% with him.
The amount of crashes and metabolic rebound Ive seen In the last 24 years of racing from dudes trying to cut carbs or ride fasted....it is insane!
I agree! Vegan cyclist is into "fasted training" and intermittent fasting. I think any kind of fasting is a silly gimmick. You make yourself a better "fat burner" by simply getting more fit. I also think he needs some more muscle. But that's easier said than done when you need to ride so much.
VC doesnt' train that much. That was his "pro-block". Usually he trains like 500-600 hours per year, i think. Also during that block he dropped his weight quite drastically.
Couple months later he tried to skid with his bike, failed, landed on his arse and fractured his hip... Took him several months to get back into shape. So yeah, more strength and bone density wouldn't hurt him. It's common with female college athlete's to develop similar patterns, unhealthy eating habits and no strength exercises in fear of additional weight which results in poor bone health and injuries.
VC's training volume isn't the issue with getting muscle, his eating habits are. Fasting as well as low-carb or low-fat are great ways to drop weight as there is in-built caloric restriction. Bulking needs excess caloric intake, in general.
I am probably one of the biggest VC Fanboys! Yet still could this video great. “Your not Bonk proof” hand to forehead 😂 jessy, you do these reaction videos very tastefully, loving your channel 🤙🏻
People talk about "fasted" training when discussing doing a training ride before breakfast. That is NOT fasted training ... UNLESS you depleted your glycogen stores before going to sleep, for example by doing a lot of high intensity exercise in the evening.
Is autophagy a non-scientific area? I'd say there's enough peer reviewed research to show benefits towards recovery. Great video here.
It would be interesting if you looked in to that flow formulas brand because they’re heavily promoted by influencers like VC and Dylan Johnson and as a result of that memed on in ig.
I remember I used to buy into this whole fasted training where I was doing all my long rides and runs fasted… now I eat before everything expect a 30min easy run or something and life is so much better
Awesome channel! Great discussions.
Interesting..does seem that ,as humans are all different,different circumstances,different climate and all react differently to things.Also our body’s have different Constitution,body types and history of nutrition. Therefore we each must tailor our own nutrition...Based on as much information as possible. Enjoy watching and a never ending learning curve...
This is a fascinating video/discussion...
I thought his training and nutrition are plausible, but your arguments are pretty solid. 👍
What do yall think about high fructose corn syrup... Ok to have? Sugar is ok but have been told this is not good for the body
Thank you for be0ing honest.
Damn this is so good, thanks for the education.
He's not doing IF anymore, apparently.
i like to mix in some running during the week and only ride on the weekends during the winter when daylight is limited, and i'm not yet ready for time on the trainer. is it ok to do my weekend rides fasted (and take in food 60-90' into the ride). just trying to keep the weight gain to a minimum before i start base training for the next season. thanks for the upload!
I don’t understand... why?
Lol that was my first thought too.
Top performance is not necessarily means good health. Eating 500 grams of sugar is not normal, but it works for performance and at that level you have to do what you have to do. Regular weekend warriors should more concentrate on eating real food and use rocket fuel for their races or show up is grand Fondo :)
What's the catch? Eating the right amount of sugar while training, does not necessarily means bad health. Sugar then burns immediatly for power. There is no big difference except, that sugar is way faster available for the energy system, rather then "regular" food...
You can still bonk ,I can do a 3 hours fasted ride . But I noticed if there a sudden change in temperature 🌡️ , either if rain start falling or the sun get hotter . My body does take a long time to adjust . It does feel like hitting a wall. Sudden lost of power . It's the worst feeling ever . But if you stop you will regret it .
I was skeptical, but the book "The Obesity Code" lays out a pretty strong science argument for intermittent fasting _as a way to reset insulin resistance for the obese_. So I don't think IF is junk science in THAT application. It would be pretty surprising if VC had developed insulin resistance though. Can IF help those headed towards T2 diabetes? I think so. Can it be the magic bullet for athletes? I don't think there is any support for that.
Yup agree, just finished obesity code for the second time, makes sense to me, fat adapted previously and currently on 40th day on IF and keto and dropping about 160g of body fat a day, feel amazing on the side...but! for training it's no use, any real effort is very hard with no carbs and historically my heart rate on keto gets relatively high which I am not a fan off.
Funnily enough I watch that episode last night…
I think it is a sign for you to fast 19 ours as well😉🤣
I remember listening to Adam Hansen on a podcast talk about killing off dead/bad cells with fasting. He said he would finish a ride, eat a recovery meal then fast (not sure for how long). It was a life in the peloton episode. He seems like a very smart person, but I'm not sure where he's sourcing his information regarding killing off bad cells. Do you have any thoughts on that line of thinking?
I can highly recommend the videos of Dr. Jason Fung on the subject.
That process "autophagy" in my years in sport/health science, I've very rarely seen mentioned and if so, not by people I respect/trust and they are usually charlatans. As I see it, it's not a physiological process that should be thought about or manipulated, plenty of other things to focus on to be healthy and ride fast.
@@tobiasknoll8235 Dr Fung looks like he eats a small cyclist every week and then has to fast it off. The dude would have an FTP of about 130w lol
You fast every night when you stop at dinner and start again at BREAKfast. That is all you need. Eat a low fat diet around 10g a day and watch the fat melt off you if fat loss is your goal.
Im 44. Been eating unlimited carbs since 1996 and always lean year round. Obesity runs in my family.
@@durianriders haha, thats a surprise, fancy meeting you here in this comment section... Thanks for your advice! Never thought I would see the day, when the durianrider answers one of my comments🤣. All the best to you!
HE HAS ALL THE BRO SCI BS DOWN PAT. GOOD VIDEO
Vegan Cyclist has spoken in previous videos about how he used to be overweight. I believe this is what we call an eating disorder and his advice on food is toxic.
Doesn't he have a coach?
You need to sit that Boi down and have the talk with him.
I dont wanna rag on vegan cyclist, but hes always seemed like a super 'hype' dude, like he's selling himself on stuff. This feels like he watched a few podcasts and drank the cool aide. You can convince yourself of anything if you're wanting to.
Off-topic, but do you have a link for the cheap Aliexpress aero socks? Can't remember the vid that you mentioned them in
These ones: www.aliexpress.com/item/4001071983208.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.35da4c4dp677eT
Disclaimer: I have absolutely no idea how aero they actually are. But they are comfortable, and look like aero socks. Can't be too far off the real deal.
@@nerocoaching Thanks mate!
It's not a fasted ride if you're not drinking only water!!! Carbs does not mean fasted! It's like calling a fasted ride while drinking coffee a fasted ride!
How is autophagy a 'non scientific area' ? It is certainly not pseudo science. It's a well researched and understood area, I'd argue most athletes would benefit from protocols which trigger Autophagy and therefore enhance performance.
It's a scientific term, but hijacked by charlatans. I've honestly never heard someone I respect in the sport or health science area speak about autophagy as a physiological process that should be manipulated. The only people I hear banging on about it are bro-scientists or charlatans selling their "key to longevity"
@@nerocoaching there is a strong connection between Autophagy and Exercise. Just because it’s not ‘buzz’ and no one is talking about it doesn’t mean it’s invalid and has no merit. It’s an interesting topic but I do agree there are some who tout it as ‘magic’ to suit their agenda, it’s far from it and the science is real and easily accessible.
@@borangle8585 yup, autophagy is legit but to access it requires extended water fasts, say 72 hours maybe? cant remember the exact amount of hours Fung mentions. The incorporation of autophagy magic benefits into daily IF discussions is a nonsense though.
@@nerocoaching And you'd be wrong. One of the benefits of IF is autophagy, which simply means cell turnover. The New England Journal of Medicine recently did a peer-reviewed summary of IF benefits and this cell death and clean up is precisely the reason it increases longevity and promotes stem cell regeneration. Please do some more research before making a UA-cam video saying it's bro science
Autophagy occurs constantly in everyone regardless of if you fast or not. It’s not a process in the body which should be manipulated to improve performance. I’m not saying autophagy is not real, I’m saying cyclists shouldn’t be thinking about it to get faster or healthier.
All he eats is carbs. He is not depleted lol. Depleted in protein yes.
Very good point!!!!
All he eats is carbs!!! He is NOT in keto and burning only fat. So he goes into a ride on an empty stomach...that is NOT equivalent to being keto and empty on carbs. And then he's taking in carbs immediately on the ride. He's fully carbed up. Great point.
hey jesse! do you have to be part of a drug testing pool if you want to ride national championships? because i see it all the time on PCS that for nationals you often got riders there who arent riding on WT, PCT or CT teams, kinda cool but also a bit weird if you can compete in such a big event without getting tested beforehand
Nope don't need to be. National champs aren't that big of an event, they are generally open to anyone who wants to enter. The bottom quarter of most national champs races aren't that strong, especially in the weaker cycling countries.
EPO has a half life of 5 hours ish for most people.
Running low dosage all year keeps you under the BP radar.
Drug testing is a waste of time as it's so easy to pass.
@@nerocoaching Many thanks! Good point actually
@@DurianriderCyclingTips i like to believe that its mostly a clean sport these days haha
If he can do 5w/kg with this chaotic diet, not to mention being vegan, Imagine what he could do with the best known nutrition based on science. If you're doing something weird and different and not blowing the world's best away with your results, you're wasting your time.
He just did 300W for 2hours. On strava
@@coolkid8608 and? I have no idea what he weighs.
@@TheWoogerooI think 65kg
Poor Tyler. @1.25 speed he looks kooky 😂
His weight two years ago was around 73.5kg according to this ftp test video. (338ftp for 4.6w/kg = 73.5)
ua-cam.com/video/HXSxSFS0VR4/v-deo.html
230w for 3h.... bonk proof
VC over here sweating watching this 😂
They were in lockdown then I think
That’s a new handlebar on the Devel. Why did you switch from the Black Inc?
FSA are partnering with Nero Conti, so we have the Vision Metron bars to ride now. Only done a few rides, they are much stiffer than the Black inc ones. Will need to ride them more to get a better idea though.
@@nerocoaching Cool, I’ve heard similar comments about the FSA stiffness (and weight). They look awesome though.
Regarding why VC is doing giant rides on the trainer rather than outside, it snows where he lives that time of year, so sometimes he’s stuck riding inside.
Unless he is a sherpa where he can substitute sugar for carbs. This is broscience
IF works fairly well for the obese, pre-diabetic, sedentary population. Not high level athletes. VC is an influencer who subsists on broscience and view farming. viewers are hopefully smarter than this.
Madness
a few years ago I used to follow this Vegan cyclist guy, but I stopped followed him a long time ago because he's sort of a "look at me" and he's a bit of a "bro science" guy.
elyas m'barek 2.0 for sure
I've gleaned a few things from VC, and appreciate many of his vlogs.. That said, his diet/nutrition info is Not of interest to me!..
Your engine wont run without a proper fuel. Unless you are a Tesla. Go eat yall!
LOL maybe this is why he's not a pro level racer and just a IG/YT cyclists.... sponsored by flow and zwift LOL
Hitting a 5.0wkg FTP is an insanely high level of fitness, don't undersell it. Sure its not a world tour pro with a 6.5wkg 20 min power, but 5.0 is still elite among amateurs.
@@NikeonaBike well if it's real... every time I'm zwift I'm amazed at how many riders pass me doing over 5-6-7 or 8 w/kg.... it's an untapped resource for pro teams I guess LOL LOL
@@NikeonaBike I wouldn't just take the default strava calculation as a accurate gold standard
@@redfixfive He's mentioned that his FTP is at or around 5.0 in other videos when he has been training hard, so don't worry I dont take strava default calculation.
@@redfixfive he's using power meters not strava's calculations. He's at a quite high fitness level for an amateur.
I'm gonna share my two cents. Not that intermmentent fasting is right when ur someone who is smashing hours on the bike weekly.
In context to what VC did last December was that for the whole month each day he wanted to put up a vlog video on UA-cam.
U gotta remember he had a job, cycling on the trainer or outside, take care of hygiene, (shower bathroom wash clothes), then a family bro and the vlog edit and upload.
So the eating thing which btw he was able to fast since he already in seasons past done this kind of empty stomach thing before during his daily tasks and grew and became stronger mentally how to keep his body composed and mind composed even while hungry.
So food was consumed after all his activities were finished. I totally get it that for a whole month was super sketch and maybe could of landed him in the hospital.
He looked like shit to say the least.
But that said it is the vegan cyclist he knows a lot stuff. And he is a super strong mentally sound guy. I give him the benefit of the doubt for him personally this was risky and stupid. But it worked. He took a nice break after this.
I feel if someone like me who never fasts if I did any of the variables he did I would been in ER.
Also u gotta not fast forward his clips to make him sound like he's rushing rushing.
Bro u made a video that came across fair and not bias about the Lions den u came across as the middle man viewing the pros and cons. But a lot of peeps on ur comments were shitting on the Lions den. And now ur putting VC on blast. He's essentially talking out his thots to make a vlog he's not merely teaching others. His intention is pure. Until a cynical guy comes along.
Dude do u.
BTW this happened like a year ago. I think if ur truly concerned about this dude maybe u would of reached out to him a yr ago.
Peace man
Fair enough. But I would say I'm not being cynical, I'm providing social commentary, and an explanation of potential downsides to one part of his diet. Only relating to the fasting he was doing.
It wasn't a personal attack, there are a lot of people out there that would have watched VC vlog and would be curious about how fasting could impact performance, that was the point of this video.
@@nerocoaching Dang it
U responded kindly. Now I must go re read how I was being. But did u have to fast forward his clips? It made him sound like he's a wackjob lol. All goodz. as u can tell I'm defending VC cuz I watch alotta of his vids.
But I do play fair hopefully I wasnt coming at u personally. I just think if u understood in context and what he was doing maybe the key points of the vid that u touched on u would of just looked and said dayum that's dumb and went on ur way. I don't think for one min the dude was in teaching mode he kinda was just sharing his thots as they came out. It would of been like nice if he said a few times "hey guys btw ur watching this and wanna do try no eating before a long ride sesh... Here are some things to consider and risks involved if u have never fasted for say even 4 hours" in paraphrase. In terms of when I think of fasting (which I haven't done in over 15yrs) but I stay lean regardless.
But I think fasting is when ur stomach is hungry and u just drink something instead even tho there all kinds of fasting degrees of what kind of food and portions blah blah.
Bottom line I respect u see my view and I'm super bias. So I say it's not about right or wrong but the reality of fasting as well as burning tons of carloies and water and fat storage say in this case while doing cycling training. Is a very complex activity or training.
So I see where u wanna come to shed some light on others who are going yeah I wanna do this but don't even know the context of vegan cyclist mental state and physical state and understanding it's difficulty knowing ur body and also the risk involve.
Hey I was even thinking dude VC u pushing urself hard bruh. He would have to edit his vlogs at like pass 1am sometimes and start all over again.
His December last year for his flesh prolly sucked but he grew and his rebound in 2021 I think he did the impossible route with Jeremiah the one where it's death valley one which was super exciting and his mental capacity to finish a long treacherous ride like that I think his "stfu mind" in December helped him conquer that. His routes are pretty wicked hard to say the least.
Anyway that's me bowing down to VC. Lol. But thanks for responding clean cool manner. If it was like a nasty reply I would of just done my secret weopon "ikr" and that would of been all I sed.
Peace Jesse
Danny
haha I forgot I had the vid on 1.25x speed, I had it on there because it was a long vid and just wanted the parts where he was talking about the fasting. Should have turned it off for the recording!
@@nerocoaching bro that's funny. Like put it on x2. And just be like this was the actual footage of him after the 3rd week into his December riding/vlogging series. Bahahaha
@@nerocoaching where u live stateside? I'm in FL.
U have an accent going on sound Australian... But I also get even the Boston accent mistaken for New York so I'm bad at accents. U see kangaroos "down there"? I love the kangaroo
Thank You! "misinformation" "it's total bullshit", lol
vegan food doesn´t taste, so he minimizes the eating window to 6 hours ;-)
As if there is a cup to be given to the one who eats the least! 🫤