James, bc of you I finally became confident enough to buy a Joe & learn to BBQ. You are amazing. I’ve made some great stuff with your help. If you were in Florida, I’d invite your family over to dinner! Thanks Bro!!
When I was deployed for a year in 2020, I had lots of time and watches EVERY video he made…James is truly the reason I purchased a KJ as well. He’s easy to follow, makes professional videos, and he even is so responsive when you email or message him. One of the greatest on UA-cam
My adult son and I are going to put together our new K-Joe this week and start a new adventure (neither one of us know how to bbq 😂) Smoking Dad is going to be front and center for our much needed education! I love his videos and he is not annoying to listen to over and over. Im really looking forward to a new skill set, great food, and some quality Mom and Son time…🌈❤️
Hi James another great video. I have a BK Keg and the heat deflector accessory from them is a water pan. In the beginning I used it for every cook and I was able to make a few observations. It seems to make your meat look braised/boiled. Secondly the added moisture soaks the inside of the dome so everything is damp & runny... on longer cooks (10+ hours) the added water would condense and drip into the fire. On a few occasions it's put the fire out. Because of this I only use the water pan as a heat sync for very low temp cooks like smoked fish and been jerky. Otherwise I think the braised/boiled outcome is just cosmetic but regardless I don't really like the final product. Hope this helps.
If the bottom gets a different bark / consistency, I wonder if placing a water source next to the meat would help. You still get the humidity in the air but not directly below the meat.
Or maybe put the pan on the deflector plates, below the slow roler lid. this way the water would still vaporize but not be direct under the meat as well
James, you're an inspiration. I've got a St. Louis rack on the KJ 3 right now and I'm watching this for fun. If anything, you've taught me to be a resilient BBQer. Thanks for building the confidence over the past couple of years and I'll try that water trick on the next cook. Keep up the good work and much success to you!
My guy! Glad to see this comparison up after I mentioned it recently. I’ve gone to having a water pan in most cooks now particularly where I’ve gone double indirect so there is a hotter fire, more airflow and therefore less humidity. I find adding the water pan definitely has helped make the end result a touch better every time.
Love your videos! I've learned a bunch of stuff from you so far. Keep them coming!! I did notice when you were taking them out, the water bath one looked a little more bendy. Sounds like you noticed the difference in the tenderness in the taste test as well. Definitely worth a try!
I'm working on a Primo Oval XL and I did my first brisket on it with a water pan. I found the cooker was like a sauna and I was getting very little bark, so I took it out 3/4 through the cook.
It would be cool to see a side by side comparison on ribs with the water pan above the slow roller like you did here vs water pan below the slow roller like you did on the brisket against Al. I'm curious what that would do to the bark on top and if you would get the normal color back on the bottom since the water would not be directly under the meat.
Great vid James. Love to see you challenging the norm. How about double indirect vs. regular with water pan. Might help with the bark and also be good solution for people without sloroller. Single deflector plate and water pan might be a good setup for the Joe Jr as well, what do you think?
Very interesting video, to use no water was one of the first things I was told when going Kamado. Thing is when I was learning to bbq I was using Weber and then water was always a part of many cooks especially if I were to cook for a long time. It was more used as an insulator than anything else, also to hinder heat spikes and lows. Water was a part of our cook when we won best ribs at the Swedish bbq championship. No idea why I never questioned the fact when I first heard it. Also I have never liked the 3-2-1 method.
I agree (with use of water pan). I have always used a water pan in my Kamado Joe Big Joe s1 for ribs AND brisket. I guess I never heard that I wasn't supposed to use water but then again, I never asked. For James though, I would still sprits that, even though it is above a water pan.
On the 4th I used the water pan trick on a 11 lb pork picnic that took 15 hours at 225. I tried it to mimic your double indirect so it looks like you went triple indirect as the water pan is another barrier. Love the video
I love these experiments. I do think brisket would be the best test. I do wonder if the foil boat with the water pan would ultimately take it up to the next level. I’ve seen offset users use a water pan and still get the desired bark. I imagine with the inclusion of the foil boat, you will have the bark you desire, a moist underside, and it removes the need to spray every hour
Great comparison. I've kind of flipped back and forth depending on what I was cooking, mostly stay away from water though. Might have to try this out myself!
I have a classic 1. I use a water pan on long cooks such as pork butts and brisket. At time I use it on ribs. I found the water pan was like ur double indirect and bottoms didn’t burn. Since You recommended the smokeware drip pan, I have not used a water pan. Thanks for doing the video. Once posted I used a water on fb, was quickly corrected I didn’t need one on a Joe
I would try testing with a brisket. With the longer cook time, I think that's where you would notice a difference. On my UDS, I do use a water pan, but it is much lower and spaced much further than you have it in the Joe.
I use a water pan too with my UDS. I find it gives a cleaner result. Otherwise the smoke can get intense from fat incinerating.. the pan also makes clean up easier. And I can transfer it to the oven to finish off in a pre warmed pan if I desire!
Hello, Mr. FOGO. Would it be possible for you guys to start selling FOGO here in the U.K.? We've got plenty of Kamado Joe Big Block available, but I'd sure like to give your brand a go because James rates it so highly ;) Here's hoping . . .
GREAT video! I'm new to the kamato (your video's tempted me!) & haven't used a water pan yet. I have used a WSM for about 14 years. I have done pork butts & briskets both with & w/o the water pan. As you would expect the water pan results in a moister meat and not as 'crusty' of a bark. I do something a bit different though. I fill the water pan with ice first so that the outer layer of meat get time for a little 'bark' first. Then as it melts and heats up I get the moist steam. When I do these for our large (25-35) camping group they appear to prefer the water pan method. They are not aware, but I get more comments about how good the meat was when I have used the water pan. Personally I prefer the crusty bark; but in our group I'm in the far, far minority. Cook to the audience.
LOVE your videos! You're everywhere! Congrats on your success on UA-cam! I have the Classic ii, no plans to upgrade. I would love to see a comparison of a brisket, one with a water pan and no double deflector setup, and one without a water pan but with the double deflector setup I would cook the brisket fat side up. This would demonstrate whether or not the water pan would serve the same purpose of reducing bottom heat as does the double deflector setup. Anyway, thanks again! Keep up the GREAT videos. Sincerely, Tom the Fan.
Amazing info as always. KJ should definitely be sending you some love for highlighting their product. With the water pan you are maybe doing a triple indirect method. It looks like with the added height of the rack on the KJ1 you may not have enough clearance for a brisket without it touching the lid.
Looking forward to your next comparison. I just bought a water smoker to accompany my Kamado Joe Classic II. I am not happy with the smoking results I am getting on the Kamado, it is running way too low heat for clean smoke (I don't have a slow roller).
Tried the water pan with my pork ribs last night (using double indirect, cooking at 325 (give or take) for 2 hours then foil boat and 1 more hour. Ribs came out amazing! May be the best ever! Thanks for this video!
Great test - and preliminary validation! I think the bark matters most on big cuts - maybe a pork butt or brisket (or both?) would be a good next test? Also, what time's dinner? Yum!
I’ve become yet another person you’ve convinced to get a KJ. Thanks for your excellent content that makes all these different recipes feel very approachable.
I started watching James a couple of years ago when I was deciding which kamado style grill to get, the KJ or a BGE. With his videos, along with some direct comparison videos, I decided to get the KJ Classic Series 3. After almost 2 years of cooking on it, I couldn't be happier with the grill. It does low-n-slow so good, but you can crank it up for searing steaks, and does a great job with everything in-between. If you like pizza, I highly recommend the doJoe accessory. It seems pricey, but trust me, the quality of the pizzas you can make will end up saving you money on ordering pizza out. Good luck finding your grill.
Nice video sir! Still not sure that a water pan is worth it on KJ grill. I guess the brisket would be the next comparison but those aren't cheap right now. Thanks for another good review on the KJs!! 🔥
My 2 cents! I use the SNS Kamado and Kettle which includes water reservoir, and also a water pan in my pellet grill Original Grilla and it definetly makes a difference besides creating a better taste profile, it also helps to even out temperatures on the cooking area. Also as the SNS system, creats ineficieny the % of wood vrs charcoal that can be used is much higher as combustion of smoke is more complete. You can manage the combustion of smoke by adding chunks on top or botton of the charcoal reservoir very conveniet in the SNS system. As with everything you need to manage humidity, for turkey, ribs, sometimes I remove the water reservoir towards the end of the cook so skin crisps up a bit, and bark become a tad firmer.
I wish I could try this with my Akorn Jr but even raising my grill grate, I couldn't really fit a drip pan in with a double indirect setup. The water pan would be touching the grill grate so I don't think I'd get the results with it. Definitely worth a ponder over though!
Thanks James. Those Smokeware pans are very nice. I have one for my KJJ and love it. I don't have the funds (or the back strength) for a Big Joe at this point, but I do a similar indirect setup on my 26" weber kettle and I use a 20" paella pan as the water/drip pan.
interesting comparison! I would love to see spatchcock chicken used for this experiment. The added humidity might benefit the white meat. Though the skin will be very sensitive to the change in cooking environment. so it should be a good test to try. I also wonder if a water pan allows you to pull off a hotter and faster brisket cook without the double indirect and prevent the bottom from tearing while cooking. just for those who want the charcoal efficienty of a single indirect cook.
I used to use a water pan in an uninsulated vertical bullet. It seemed to consume more fuel and and provided a consistent temp. In the end, I ran the unit with no water. This was an ECB smoker with open bottom and no way to add fuel or water easily. I ran a layer of briquettes for heat and no flavour and a layer of wood chunks and charcoal for the best of both worlds. I used about 5 hot briquettes in a corner and the fire would go from one side of the unit to the other. It would actually settle at 230 degrees for about 3 hours and then I would wrap (butcher paper always) and pour in some more briquettes for another 3 hour burn. Shorter cook times, less fuel.
Another great video. Quick question…I noticed at the beginning that you were targeting 270°. But I thought I noticed your thermometers reading over 300° when you opened the lid. What temps were you cooking at? Thanks again for the videos.
Have you already put wood splits vs chunks to the test? I’ve recently been using red oak splits for ribs in my Kamado Joe Classic II, and it’s been delicious. Not sure why we’re supposed to always go with chunks.
call me old fashioned, but i actually prefer the daisy wheel versus the control tower, setting it after every lift isnt an issue especially when the control tower looks so cheap.
Please try brisket next . I’ve started using a water pan under my brisket so I can have it fat side up and I don’t have to spritz it while it cooks over night. In a BJ3 I set up the slow roller, water pan, and set at 275. I then use the foil boat around 180 and then let it rest for as long as it can in my oven at 150 degrees. Comes out really well but I always feel like my bark could be darker. I’ve never tried the double indirect yet so I’m going to try that next, but I’m worried about omitting the water pan since I’ve had such success with it.
I’m thinking of trying the water test with a spatchcock chicken. It seems chicken is a good protein source for testing dryness vs. moisture while keeping skin crispy vs. mushy. Thanks!
James..please do this with a brisket! Sure appreciate your videos. I have the BJ3 and was thinking of selling it but your videos inspire me to keep doing cooks on it and having fun!
@@SmokingDadBBQ oh...simply because it takes quite a bit of room parked in my garage and I was using my pellet smoker quite a bit. However your videos made me do a 180 lol
What are your thoughts on using the Grill Expander accessory for the BJ 1/2? This will give the added height that it is lacking compared to series 3. Its definitely big enough for a brisket.
Since you are using more Fogo, and made comment about it's softer smoke profile in another video I tried a bag. Way too sparky for me compared to big block. But I'm excited to set up my new classic 2 - got it at costco on clearance for $699 (CAD!)
Hey James thanks for all your videos. You mentioned a test that you did for the water pan but didn't give the link for the video I was curious on which smokeware drip pan you used for the Big Joe 3? Thanks in advance!
00:28 in this video shows the most current way i am incorporating water (under the sloroller) - ua-cam.com/video/ZAOX8iCPgXo/v-deo.html I found this is working best as we don't get any soggy bottoms like you can with the pan directly below the food, and we get the benefit of the 20x humid air circulation from the sloroller which helps the smoke molecules adhere to the protein better. Only the 14" fits under the sloroller, the big joe can use the new 18" but not for the water under the sloroller
I like to see chuck roast or brisket. I’ve tried chuck roast before and it turns out dry. I’ve never cooked one with a water pan though. Also, another test I’d be interested in is the difference between using mustard as a binder and just plain water. Can you detect any difference in flavor?
In the SnS Kamado, the Slow N Sear does have the water reservoir, and I used to keep it in and fill it with water when smoking, but I recently started leaving it out for "higher heat" cooks and meant to put it back in for smoking, but I never remember to put it back in there and I can't tell much difference.
Hi James, quick question from The Netherlands. The smoke wood is on the bottom and you light the coal from the top. How long does it take before the smoke wood starts to smoke? Why don’t you put the smoke wood on the top?
Hi James. I received an email that says: Congratulations 🎉 You have been selected as the winner of the Kamado Joe Big Joe lll 24-inch Ceramic Kamado Grill. Send me a message via the above number so we can sort this out.. I have sent the text message and heard nothing. Am I being impatient?
Try a couple pork shoulders. Not just one, but two at a time, just like Costco sells them. Yes it's a lot of meat, but you have Canada day coming up this Friday. Great time to put out a LOT of meat for people, and leave them with leftovers.
I think you shouldn't have sprayed the other set on a comparison like this because you added 2 variables of direct moisture and temperature change from opening the grill. I've added water to the drip pan at the beginning of a brisket cook thinking maybe it would help as a heat sink and more moisture at the bottom for less crisp, similar to the double indirect idea. I don't bother adding more water during the cook because it's awkward, and the pan is always dry at the end. I don't know if it's helped because my brisket cooks are still hit and miss anyway, but it seems like it could be something for a longer cook like that.
@@brettm5419 it’s a fake account using my photo to try and scam people. Report the fake account if you see it again please. I did and removed all the comments I could find form that user
Hey James. I going to buy a Kamato because of you and these videos. The KJ 3 is more than I want to spend. What is your opinion on the KJ 2 vs Vision kamato grills?
I've done ribs and pork butt with and without water, but haven't been able to do a comparison of the two. This was an interesting video. Now that you've done a cook with a water pan, it might be interesting to do a comparison cook with water only versus another liquid, like apple juice, in the drip pan, to see if there is any difference in the final product. I've always thought adding something other than water was unnecessary, but that's just a hunch.
I use water pan most of the time for ribs, brisket, butt and chicken. I don't remember a boiled taste at all. I live in the Denver area that is usually very dry, so maybe that is why I like the water.
I’ve tried with and without, though never in a head-to-head comparison, and never noticed much difference. But, I admit my palette doesn’t pick up nuances very well.
James, do you think the water in the water pan also acts as an insulator, allowing the ribs to be slightly more tender and juicy? Great experiment and thanks for your journey to make smoking on the Kamado better.
@@roncunning3117 this is a scammer using my photo. My account is not a cell number and I will never ask for your credit card information. Please report that account if you see it. I blocked and reported
I like using a water pan but it doesn't always have water in it. For beef I'll often use water with Johnny's Au Jus or Kitchen Bouquet. Pork gets all kinds of fruit juices- apple, white grape, pineapple, etc. Orange/pineapple is great for chicken.
James, I think the use of water in this case might not be the best idea. In this case placing water directly under the ribs somewhat creates different temperatures for the top and for the bottom of the meat you are cooking. On a bottom water pan will artificially cool down the meat. It reminds me of the "Ultimate Turkey" recipe from Meathead's book (pg 307) where you need to place a pan with gravy under the turkey. generally it cools down the bottom of the bird, and in my experience you need to remove the pan and give the bottom a dry heat to finish cooking. Anyway thanks a lot for the experiment your channel is my KJ tutorial.
I am using a water pan a lot myself for my offset set up and for Webber Slow and Sear setup, but there it is generally used for temperature stability rather than anything else. Also in both set ups the water pan does not go under the meat but rather on the side. so maybe in KJ you can try a smaller water pan on the same level as the meat.
I have often used a water pan in the Junior. I find (anecdotally?) that it helps with heat control. Admittedly, this is more commonly used with a chuck roast (brisket is hard to get here). Anyway, I assume the water acts as an additional heatsink and while there is water, the temperature will tend to keep closer to 100C/212F. In terms of suggestions, you could perhaps cold-smoke the ribs, then steam, then sear... and compare them to these two... (then again this could be a terrible idea...)
I got my big joe 3 last week and finally had a chance to fire it up. I am having issues with my big joe running through coal pretty quick. I timed a half of basket full running at 250 degrees ,only lasted me 4 hours. I upgraded from a 18" vision ceramic grill that would run forever with that amount of fuel. Am i doing something wrong? I am using Royal Oak hardwood Lump. Do I need to change fuel?
Awesome experiment and glad you tested the water pan one of my favorite go to for reasons you mentioned besides not having to spritz. May favorite technique for beef ribs especially but works on variety of cooks you mentioned. Great job as always James
The water pan has been a big question for me, I’ve done it once or twice but that was in a BGE large, after seeing smokin dads I converted to the big joe series 1 an curious to see if a chuck or pork butt would benefit from the pan
How about putting the water pan BELOW the pizza stone so that the steam still protects the meat from radiant heat but doesn't directly blast the underside with too much moisture? Take advantage of the double-indirect setup
The kettle sometimes has an advantage of burning a clean fire. As it’s not insulated running a small dirty fire is much more difficult to do than it is an air restricted and very thermal efficient grill like a Kamado. That being said when you set it up right I notice a difference, it’s easier to use for long cooks and gets hotter for pizza and steak. I think you will like it but the mistake everyone makes is forgetting why the kettle tastes good which is clean fire and sometimes choke out their Kamado
To me it doesn’t look like you got enough pull back meat from bone which is not much rendering. Definitely not dark enough bark. We don’t sauce our ribs either but looks like something in my opinion went definitely wrong with this cook on both racks of ribs. I think you might be taking an easy process and complicating it. prep them smoke until color wrap for maybe 90 min and finish unwrapped.
Pull back is good on the eyes and a must for competion ribs. However, as the meat pulls back, it oozes out fat juices. If you can get the fat rendered enough, but also without much pull back, you'd get juicier ribs.
Hi James, Well because of your recent videos I'm selling my 18" Vision and now have a new KJ BJ1 in the box on my patio. I would have never known how good they were without your help. Thanks On the double indirect method, do you think it is ok to use on hot cooks or would it break the heat deflector? I'm thinking of 425 or so to cook chicken.
@@SmokingDadBBQ I finished cutting my ash guide and assembled the grill last this past Monday. Went ahead and burned a fire just to try it out. This thing is amazing! My charcoal basket is apparently on back-order thru Lowes so I don't have it yet. When it comes do I remove the original cast iron grate when using the basket or does it stay in place to aid in supporting the firebox sections? Thank you so much for the help and video's!
I simply put the water pan to avoid to have "false smoke", smoke from fat dripping to hot source. With the water pan every liquid that drops from the meat goes in to the water creating not smoke and the only smoke I have, comes from the wood.
Hello, I am using a Smartfire on my KJ. It attaches to the grate. It is similar to the Ikamand. Dome temp is always higher than what my grate temperature is showing. Which temperature should I follow?
There is about a 20-40f temp difference between the low grid position and the dome. It’s like looking at a picture of yourself 5 years ago beside one from today and asking which picture is you. They both are accurate at the time and place. Probes are the same, I use the dome as it’s the one probe I have every cook as my default for quoting temps
Have you stopped with the "start the fire at the air-intake and let it go from there in a straight line" set up or have you gone to top down? and if so why? Might be a vid on it been away from civilization for a bit. :D I also have a issue with my Big Joe that it seems to gain heat during the cook even if I try to ajust with the top vent and down vent it just goes up no matter what edit3: also I love the technique of dropping chips in the ash basket it really woorks a treat! edit4: also what is your take on rib-racks ie: holders for ribs so you can have more in the kamado?
thanks, have you calibrated your dome gauge lately to confirm its accurate? once the grill gets heated and the food cool bubble warms up temps that were holding flat will start to rise which means you (1) weren't heat soaked before starting (which is fine if you adjust for that) or (2) have your vents set for a higher temp than you need and once things catchup the temps are going to where you have them set
How tall is the joe Jr? I would like to build a table to make it portable in the backyard. If you have any build plans for it I would like to purchase them.
We weren't supposed to put a water pan in a Kamado grill? I always used a water pan because it would keep the meat moist while keeping the ceramic plate clean. You don't get that burn sugar smell to that some of those sugar base rubs gets.
I hope you can provide some info with my issue. I purchased the Grill Gun and when it works, it works great. But after a couple uses it doesn’t work properly. I have used both a 5 gal bottle a cylinder. Both have propane in the bottle but I can’t get the full BTU output. I’m thinking since it’s 400k BTU that may be the issue so I’m thinking of trying the Su Vgun which is 240k BTU but I don’t want the same issue. I see you use the Vgun in most your videos and am assuming you don’t have this issue? I have tried calling Grill Blazer and have sent an email as well but have not heard from them. I am hoping you can provide some insight.....thanks soooo much! :)
@@SmokingDadBBQ Thanks so much for getting back to me. And thanks so much for recommending and representing quality products. Shortly after I reached out to you for assistance, GrillBlazer responded to my issue. They were super great in solving the issue and it now works great! :) I’m so glad I did contact them for the issue wasn’t with the gun....it was with the operator! :))) I didn’t release the pressure in the hose which caused condensation and my problem. It was super easy to clean both the hose and the gun. Now back to watching more of your video’s! :)
James, bc of you I finally became confident enough to buy a Joe & learn to BBQ. You are amazing. I’ve made some great stuff with your help. If you were in Florida, I’d invite your family over to dinner! Thanks Bro!!
When I was deployed for a year in 2020, I had lots of time and watches EVERY video he made…James is truly the reason I purchased a KJ as well.
He’s easy to follow, makes professional videos, and he even is so responsive when you email or message him.
One of the greatest on UA-cam
My adult son and I are going to put together our new K-Joe this week and start a new adventure (neither one of us know how to bbq 😂) Smoking Dad is going to be front and center for our much needed education! I love his videos and he is not annoying to listen to over and over. Im really looking forward to a new skill set, great food, and some quality Mom and Son time…🌈❤️
wow thanks, glad to help!
Hi James another great video. I have a BK Keg and the heat deflector accessory from them is a water pan. In the beginning I used it for every cook and I was able to make a few observations. It seems to make your meat look braised/boiled. Secondly the added moisture soaks the inside of the dome so everything is damp & runny... on longer cooks (10+ hours) the added water would condense and drip into the fire. On a few occasions it's put the fire out. Because of this I only use the water pan as a heat sync for very low temp cooks like smoked fish and been jerky. Otherwise I think the braised/boiled outcome is just cosmetic but regardless I don't really like the final product. Hope this helps.
If the bottom gets a different bark / consistency, I wonder if placing a water source next to the meat would help. You still get the humidity in the air but not directly below the meat.
Or maybe put the pan on the deflector plates, below the slow roler lid. this way the water would still vaporize but not be direct under the meat as well
James, you're an inspiration. I've got a St. Louis rack on the KJ 3 right now and I'm watching this for fun. If anything, you've taught me to be a resilient BBQer. Thanks for building the confidence over the past couple of years and I'll try that water trick on the next cook. Keep up the good work and much success to you!
@Text me ①⑤①⓪⑥⓪⑨⑥⓪①④ reported scammer
@@SmokingDadBBQ Awww . . . thought I'd just won a new Kamado ;)
Thanks!
My guy! Glad to see this comparison up after I mentioned it recently. I’ve gone to having a water pan in most cooks now particularly where I’ve gone double indirect so there is a hotter fire, more airflow and therefore less humidity. I find adding the water pan definitely has helped make the end result a touch better every time.
Love your videos! I've learned a bunch of stuff from you so far. Keep them coming!!
I did notice when you were taking them out, the water bath one looked a little more bendy. Sounds like you noticed the difference in the tenderness in the taste test as well. Definitely worth a try!
I'm working on a Primo Oval XL and I did my first brisket on it with a water pan. I found the cooker was like a sauna and I was getting very little bark, so I took it out 3/4 through the cook.
It would be cool to see a side by side comparison on ribs with the water pan above the slow roller like you did here vs water pan below the slow roller like you did on the brisket against Al. I'm curious what that would do to the bark on top and if you would get the normal color back on the bottom since the water would not be directly under the meat.
Great vid James. Love to see you challenging the norm.
How about double indirect vs. regular with water pan. Might help with the bark and also be good solution for people without sloroller.
Single deflector plate and water pan might be a good setup for the Joe Jr as well, what do you think?
Very interesting video, to use no water was one of the first things I was told when going Kamado.
Thing is when I was learning to bbq I was using Weber and then water was always a part of many cooks especially if I were to cook for a long time. It was more used as an insulator than anything else, also to hinder heat spikes and lows. Water was a part of our cook when we won best ribs at the Swedish bbq championship. No idea why I never questioned the fact when I first heard it. Also I have never liked the 3-2-1 method.
I agree (with use of water pan). I have always used a water pan in my Kamado Joe Big Joe s1 for ribs AND brisket. I guess I never heard that I wasn't supposed to use water but then again, I never asked. For James though, I would still sprits that, even though it is above a water pan.
On the 4th I used the water pan trick on a 11 lb pork picnic that took 15 hours at 225. I tried it to mimic your double indirect so it looks like you went triple indirect as the water pan is another barrier. Love the video
Sounds great!
I love these experiments. I do think brisket would be the best test. I do wonder if the foil boat with the water pan would ultimately take it up to the next level. I’ve seen offset users use a water pan and still get the desired bark. I imagine with the inclusion of the foil boat, you will have the bark you desire, a moist underside, and it removes the need to spray every hour
Good experiment, surprising it was more flavorful. Thought it would be more moist, but wasn’t surprised by that.
Great comparison. I've kind of flipped back and forth depending on what I was cooking, mostly stay away from water though. Might have to try this out myself!
let me know what you think
I have a classic 1. I use a water pan on long cooks such as pork butts and brisket. At time I use it on ribs. I found the water pan was like ur double indirect and bottoms didn’t burn. Since You recommended the smokeware drip pan, I have not used a water pan. Thanks for doing the video. Once posted I used a water on fb, was quickly corrected I didn’t need one on a Joe
I would try testing with a brisket. With the longer cook time, I think that's where you would notice a difference. On my UDS, I do use a water pan, but it is much lower and spaced much further than you have it in the Joe.
I use a water pan too with my UDS. I find it gives a cleaner result. Otherwise the smoke can get intense from fat incinerating.. the pan also makes clean up easier. And I can transfer it to the oven to finish off in a pre warmed pan if I desire!
Funny, we just filmed something to do with water pans in kamados yesterday! Great stuff James, keep up the great job.
Hello, Mr. FOGO. Would it be possible for you guys to start selling FOGO here in the U.K.? We've got plenty of Kamado Joe Big Block available, but I'd sure like to give your brand a go because James rates it so highly ;) Here's hoping . . .
@@henrykrinkle5353 Hi Henry, Sorry but we are unable to do that right this very moment but stay tuned......
GREAT video! I'm new to the kamato (your video's tempted me!) & haven't used a water pan yet. I have used a WSM for about 14 years. I have done pork butts & briskets both with & w/o the water pan. As you would expect the water pan results in a moister meat and not as 'crusty' of a bark. I do something a bit different though. I fill the water pan with ice first so that the outer layer of meat get time for a little 'bark' first. Then as it melts and heats up I get the moist steam. When I do these for our large (25-35) camping group they appear to prefer the water pan method. They are not aware, but I get more comments about how good the meat was when I have used the water pan. Personally I prefer the crusty bark; but in our group I'm in the far, far minority. Cook to the audience.
LOVE your videos! You're everywhere! Congrats on your success on UA-cam! I have the Classic ii, no plans to upgrade. I would love to see a comparison of a brisket, one with a water pan and no double deflector setup, and one without a water pan but with the double deflector setup I would cook the brisket fat side up. This would demonstrate whether or not the water pan would serve the same purpose of reducing bottom heat as does the double deflector setup. Anyway, thanks again! Keep up the GREAT videos. Sincerely, Tom the Fan.
Amazing info as always. KJ should definitely be sending you some love for highlighting their product.
With the water pan you are maybe doing a triple indirect method.
It looks like with the added height of the rack on the KJ1 you may not have enough clearance for a brisket without it touching the lid.
Another added feature of putting in water into the drip pan is that drippings will not burn on the foil to impart any ill wanted flavors.
for sure
Looking forward to your next comparison. I just bought a water smoker to accompany my Kamado Joe Classic II. I am not happy with the smoking results I am getting on the Kamado, it is running way too low heat for clean smoke (I don't have a slow roller).
Tried the water pan with my pork ribs last night (using double indirect, cooking at 325 (give or take) for 2 hours then foil boat and 1 more hour. Ribs came out amazing! May be the best ever! Thanks for this video!
Glad you liked it!
Great test - and preliminary validation! I think the bark matters most on big cuts - maybe a pork butt or brisket (or both?) would be a good next test? Also, what time's dinner? Yum!
Go the brisket for the next comparison. Thanks for sharing James very informative.
I’ve become yet another person you’ve convinced to get a KJ. Thanks for your excellent content that makes all these different recipes feel very approachable.
I started watching James a couple of years ago when I was deciding which kamado style grill to get, the KJ or a BGE. With his videos, along with some direct comparison videos, I decided to get the KJ Classic Series 3. After almost 2 years of cooking on it, I couldn't be happier with the grill. It does low-n-slow so good, but you can crank it up for searing steaks, and does a great job with everything in-between. If you like pizza, I highly recommend the doJoe accessory. It seems pricey, but trust me, the quality of the pizzas you can make will end up saving you money on ordering pizza out.
Good luck finding your grill.
Nice video sir! Still not sure that a water pan is worth it on KJ grill. I guess the brisket would be the next comparison but those aren't cheap right now. Thanks for another good review on the KJs!! 🔥
My 2 cents! I use the SNS Kamado and Kettle which includes water reservoir, and also a water pan in my pellet grill Original Grilla and it definetly makes a difference besides creating a better taste profile, it also helps to even out temperatures on the cooking area. Also as the SNS system, creats ineficieny the % of wood vrs charcoal that can be used is much higher as combustion of smoke is more complete. You can manage the combustion of smoke by adding chunks on top or botton of the charcoal reservoir very conveniet in the SNS system. As with everything you need to manage humidity, for turkey, ribs, sometimes I remove the water reservoir towards the end of the cook so skin crisps up a bit, and bark become a tad firmer.
I wish I could try this with my Akorn Jr but even raising my grill grate, I couldn't really fit a drip pan in with a double indirect setup. The water pan would be touching the grill grate so I don't think I'd get the results with it.
Definitely worth a ponder over though!
Thanks James. Those Smokeware pans are very nice. I have one for my KJJ and love it. I don't have the funds (or the back strength) for a Big Joe at this point, but I do a similar indirect setup on my 26" weber kettle and I use a 20" paella pan as the water/drip pan.
Right on
interesting comparison!
I would love to see spatchcock chicken used for this experiment. The added humidity might benefit the white meat. Though the skin will be very sensitive to the change in cooking environment. so it should be a good test to try.
I also wonder if a water pan allows you to pull off a hotter and faster brisket cook without the double indirect and prevent the bottom from tearing while cooking. just for those who want the charcoal efficienty of a single indirect cook.
Quite helpful experiment James. It would be interesting to see the effect on briskets.
I used to use a water pan in an uninsulated vertical bullet. It seemed to consume more fuel and and provided a consistent temp. In the end, I ran the unit with no water. This was an ECB smoker with open bottom and no way to add fuel or water easily. I ran a layer of briquettes for heat and no flavour and a layer of wood chunks and charcoal for the best of both worlds. I used about 5 hot briquettes in a corner and the fire would go from one side of the unit to the other. It would actually settle at 230 degrees for about 3 hours and then I would wrap (butcher paper always) and pour in some more briquettes for another 3 hour burn. Shorter cook times, less fuel.
Another great video. Quick question…I noticed at the beginning that you were targeting 270°. But I thought I noticed your thermometers reading over 300° when you opened the lid. What temps were you cooking at? Thanks again for the videos.
Smoked chicken might be a good test.
Have you already put wood splits vs chunks to the test? I’ve recently been using red oak splits for ribs in my Kamado Joe Classic II, and it’s been delicious. Not sure why we’re supposed to always go with chunks.
call me old fashioned, but i actually prefer the daisy wheel versus the control tower, setting it after every lift isnt an issue especially when the control tower looks so cheap.
Thank you, because of your videos I become a Kamado joe person… and I have never looked back😅
welcome to the club
Please try brisket next . I’ve started using a water pan under my brisket so I can have it fat side up and I don’t have to spritz it while it cooks over night. In a BJ3 I set up the slow roller, water pan, and set at 275. I then use the foil boat around 180 and then let it rest for as long as it can in my oven at 150 degrees. Comes out really well but I always feel like my bark could be darker. I’ve never tried the double indirect yet so I’m going to try that next, but I’m worried about omitting the water pan since I’ve had such success with it.
I’m thinking of trying the water test with a spatchcock chicken. It seems chicken is a good protein source for testing dryness vs. moisture while keeping skin crispy vs. mushy. Thanks!
James..please do this with a brisket! Sure appreciate your videos. I have the BJ3 and was thinking of selling it but your videos inspire me to keep doing cooks on it and having fun!
grid idea... selling the big joe 3? why's that, its my personal favourite out of the bunch
@@SmokingDadBBQ oh...simply because it takes quite a bit of room parked in my garage and I was using my pellet smoker quite a bit. However your videos made me do a 180 lol
What are your thoughts on using the Grill Expander accessory for the BJ 1/2? This will give the added height that it is lacking compared to series 3. Its definitely big enough for a brisket.
Nice video:)! But if you sprayed one should have sprayed other?
Since you are using more Fogo, and made comment about it's softer smoke profile in another video I tried a bag. Way too sparky for me compared to big block. But I'm excited to set up my new classic 2 - got it at costco on clearance for $699 (CAD!)
Hey James thanks for all your videos. You mentioned a test that you did for the water pan but didn't give the link for the video I was curious on which smokeware drip pan you used for the Big Joe 3? Thanks in advance!
00:28 in this video shows the most current way i am incorporating water (under the sloroller) - ua-cam.com/video/ZAOX8iCPgXo/v-deo.html
I found this is working best as we don't get any soggy bottoms like you can with the pan directly below the food, and we get the benefit of the 20x humid air circulation from the sloroller which helps the smoke molecules adhere to the protein better.
Only the 14" fits under the sloroller, the big joe can use the new 18" but not for the water under the sloroller
@@SmokingDadBBQ great for me since I bought the 14" already and was planning on the 18 anyway. Thanks for the response!
I like to see chuck roast or brisket. I’ve tried chuck roast before and it turns out dry. I’ve never cooked one with a water pan though. Also, another test I’d be interested in is the difference between using mustard as a binder and just plain water. Can you detect any difference in flavor?
would like to see a pulled pork difference
In the SnS Kamado, the Slow N Sear does have the water reservoir, and I used to keep it in and fill it with water when smoking, but I recently started leaving it out for "higher heat" cooks and meant to put it back in for smoking, but I never remember to put it back in there and I can't tell much difference.
Hi James, quick question from The Netherlands.
The smoke wood is on the bottom and you light the coal from the top.
How long does it take before the smoke wood starts to smoke?
Why don’t you put the smoke wood on the top?
Hi James. I received an email that says:
Congratulations 🎉 You have been selected as the winner of the Kamado Joe Big Joe lll 24-inch Ceramic Kamado Grill. Send me a message via the above number so we can sort this out..
I have sent the text message and heard nothing.
Am I being impatient?
I use a water pan every time . I have a series 1 and no slow roller so it's my way of doing double indirect low and slow.
Interesting test. I wonder if a foil boat would change things to keep the bottoms more consistent.
Definitely would like to see an experiment with a pork roast. Great test all the same. Well done
So I ordered the 5qt lodge Dutch oven you recommend. How about doing a video for deep fried French fries in it that guy?!
love it, will add to the list
Try a couple pork shoulders. Not just one, but two at a time, just like Costco sells them. Yes it's a lot of meat, but you have Canada day coming up this Friday. Great time to put out a LOT of meat for people, and leave them with leftovers.
Honestly, I love hosting, and cooking BBQ is a great way to provide a lot of food with minimal effort for a lot of people.
I think you shouldn't have sprayed the other set on a comparison like this because you added 2 variables of direct moisture and temperature change from opening the grill. I've added water to the drip pan at the beginning of a brisket cook thinking maybe it would help as a heat sink and more moisture at the bottom for less crisp, similar to the double indirect idea. I don't bother adding more water during the cook because it's awkward, and the pan is always dry at the end. I don't know if it's helped because my brisket cooks are still hit and miss anyway, but it seems like it could be something for a longer cook like that.
@Smoking Dad BBQ I got a notification about winning something that seems pretty scammy? Hacked?
@@brettm5419 it’s a fake account using my photo to try and scam people. Report the fake account if you see it again please. I did and removed all the comments I could find form that user
Hey James. I going to buy a Kamato because of you and these videos. The KJ 3 is more than I want to spend. What is your opinion on the KJ 2 vs Vision kamato grills?
Vision has interesting capabilities and can also be converted into a gas grill.
I've done ribs and pork butt with and without water, but haven't been able to do a comparison of the two. This was an interesting video. Now that you've done a cook with a water pan, it might be interesting to do a comparison cook with water only versus another liquid, like apple juice, in the drip pan, to see if there is any difference in the final product. I've always thought adding something other than water was unnecessary, but that's just a hunch.
James
Just received my first Kamado /kamado joe series 3. What is the deal with the cast iron piece on the bottom vs the charcoal basket?
I would like to see a water pan with a brisket test! Nice job on this one.
I own an akorn and you really need to have a water pan if not it’s almost impossible to regulate the temperature on it.
I use water pan most of the time for ribs, brisket, butt and chicken. I don't remember a boiled taste at all. I live in the Denver area that is usually very dry, so maybe that is why I like the water.
thats an interesting observation about location and the air moisture level
I’ve tried with and without, though never in a head-to-head comparison, and never noticed much difference. But, I admit my palette doesn’t pick up nuances very well.
James, do you think the water in the water pan also acts as an insulator, allowing the ribs to be slightly more tender and juicy? Great experiment and thanks for your journey to make smoking on the Kamado better.
I just saw your notification. Text message sent. Thank You!!!
James, verify I’m actually in contact with you. Sorry for being cautious, but you can’t be to careful now days.
@@roncunning3117 this is a scammer using my photo. My account is not a cell number and I will never ask for your credit card information. Please report that account if you see it. I blocked and reported
I thought so. Thanks
My first brisket I used a water pan because I didn't know any better (came out great) and 15 briskets later I'm thinking I should go back to it.
I like using a water pan but it doesn't always have water in it. For beef I'll often use water with Johnny's Au Jus or Kitchen Bouquet. Pork gets all kinds of fruit juices- apple, white grape, pineapple, etc. Orange/pineapple is great for chicken.
James, I think the use of water in this case might not be the best idea. In this case placing water directly under the ribs somewhat creates different temperatures for the top and for the bottom of the meat you are cooking. On a bottom water pan will artificially cool down the meat. It reminds me of the "Ultimate Turkey" recipe from Meathead's book (pg 307) where you need to place a pan with gravy under the turkey. generally it cools down the bottom of the bird, and in my experience you need to remove the pan and give the bottom a dry heat to finish cooking. Anyway thanks a lot for the experiment your channel is my KJ tutorial.
I am using a water pan a lot myself for my offset set up and for Webber Slow and Sear setup, but there it is generally used for temperature stability rather than anything else. Also in both set ups the water pan does not go under the meat but rather on the side. so maybe in KJ you can try a smaller water pan on the same level as the meat.
I have often used a water pan in the Junior. I find (anecdotally?) that it helps with heat control. Admittedly, this is more commonly used with a chuck roast (brisket is hard to get here). Anyway, I assume the water acts as an additional heatsink and while there is water, the temperature will tend to keep closer to 100C/212F. In terms of suggestions, you could perhaps cold-smoke the ribs, then steam, then sear... and compare them to these two... (then again this could be a terrible idea...)
Great video as always! Would love for you to do a brisket using this technique. TIA!
Hi James have you used a Dutch oven and If so what do you cook
I got my big joe 3 last week and finally had a chance to fire it up. I am having issues with my big joe running through coal pretty quick. I timed a half of basket full running at 250 degrees ,only lasted me 4 hours. I upgraded from a 18" vision ceramic grill that would run forever with that amount of fuel. Am i doing something wrong? I am using Royal Oak hardwood Lump. Do I need to change fuel?
Awesome experiment and glad you tested the water pan one of my favorite go to for reasons you mentioned besides not having to spritz. May favorite technique for beef ribs especially but works on variety of cooks you mentioned. Great job as always James
Hi James I just watch water pan test with ribs. I try a two brisket next time.
The water pan has been a big question for me, I’ve done it once or twice but that was in a BGE large, after seeing smokin dads I converted to the big joe series 1 an curious to see if a chuck or pork butt would benefit from the pan
Can you please provide a source for purchasing a new firebox and ring for my kj classic.
Having cooked w no water pan on my KJ I changed it up and way more satisfied with my results. A lot more moist and fall of the bone.
cheers
How about putting the water pan BELOW the pizza stone so that the steam still protects the meat from radiant heat but doesn't directly blast the underside with too much moisture? Take advantage of the double-indirect setup
100%... started doing that since this one, see this setup for example - ua-cam.com/video/ids3eSv09nA/v-deo.html
I’m thinking about getting a kamado bbq to replace my weber kettle. Does the food taste any different and is it easier to get great results on?
The kettle sometimes has an advantage of burning a clean fire. As it’s not insulated running a small dirty fire is much more difficult to do than it is an air restricted and very thermal efficient grill like a Kamado.
That being said when you set it up right I notice a difference, it’s easier to use for long cooks and gets hotter for pizza and steak.
I think you will like it but the mistake everyone makes is forgetting why the kettle tastes good which is clean fire and sometimes choke out their Kamado
Curious if the water pan with a brisket would help prevent the overdone bark kamados can create on the bottom
What size smokeware drip pan did you use on the series 1? I've tried a 14 but that hits the top grates and unbalances it.
I have sent them this fact after I got a series 1 and discovered the same thing. Apparently they are making a new low profile version to fix this
To me it doesn’t look like you got enough pull back meat from bone which is not much rendering. Definitely not dark enough bark. We don’t sauce our ribs either but looks like something in my opinion went definitely wrong with this cook on both racks of ribs. I think you might be taking an easy process and complicating it. prep them smoke until color wrap for maybe 90 min and finish unwrapped.
Pull back is good on the eyes and a must for competion ribs. However, as the meat pulls back, it oozes out fat juices. If you can get the fat rendered enough, but also without much pull back, you'd get juicier ribs.
Hi James,
Well because of your recent videos I'm selling my 18" Vision and now have a new KJ BJ1 in the box on my patio. I would have never known how good they were without your help. Thanks
On the double indirect method, do you think it is ok to use on hot cooks or would it break the heat deflector? I'm thinking of 425 or so to cook chicken.
i have had my stones up to 700 for pizza and no issue
Thank you. Do you still recommend leaving out the stainless piece for the ash tray? Talking about what I would call the ash funnel / guide
@@scottkeasler9317 yes. I plan to cut mine so it can slide in and out for cleaning without needing to remove the firebox
@@SmokingDadBBQ I finished cutting my ash guide and assembled the grill last this past Monday. Went ahead and burned a fire just to try it out. This thing is amazing! My charcoal basket is apparently on back-order thru Lowes so I don't have it yet. When it comes do I remove the original cast iron grate when using the basket or does it stay in place to aid in supporting the firebox sections? Thank you so much for the help and video's!
I simply put the water pan to avoid to have "false smoke", smoke from fat dripping to hot source. With the water pan every liquid that drops from the meat goes in to the water creating not smoke and the only smoke I have, comes from the wood.
Could the very small difference in taste be less maillard reaction on the water pan one?
Hello, I am using a Smartfire on my KJ. It attaches to the grate. It is similar to the Ikamand. Dome temp is always higher than what my grate temperature is showing. Which temperature should I follow?
There is about a 20-40f temp difference between the low grid position and the dome. It’s like looking at a picture of yourself 5 years ago beside one from today and asking which picture is you. They both are accurate at the time and place. Probes are the same, I use the dome as it’s the one probe I have every cook as my default for quoting temps
@@SmokingDadBBQ Thank you and have a good Turkey Day.
NICE cutting board, bro!
Have you stopped with the "start the fire at the air-intake and let it go from there in a straight line" set up or have you gone to top down? and if so why? Might be a vid on it been away from civilization for a bit. :D
I also have a issue with my Big Joe that it seems to gain heat during the cook even if I try to ajust with the top vent and down vent it just goes up no matter what
edit3: also I love the technique of dropping chips in the ash basket it really woorks a treat!
edit4: also what is your take on rib-racks ie: holders for ribs so you can have more in the kamado?
thanks, have you calibrated your dome gauge lately to confirm its accurate? once the grill gets heated and the food cool bubble warms up temps that were holding flat will start to rise which means you (1) weren't heat soaked before starting (which is fine if you adjust for that) or (2) have your vents set for a higher temp than you need and once things catchup the temps are going to where you have them set
@@SmokingDadBBQ I use the meater so it's accurate for ambient temp. I'll play with my settings a bit
How tall is the joe Jr? I would like to build a table to make it portable in the backyard. If you have any build plans for it I would like to purchase them.
From the website
Width: 20"
Height: 27.5"
Weight: 77.2 lbs.
Heat Range: 225°F - 750°F
Cooking Surface: 13.5" Diameter
We weren't supposed to put a water pan in a Kamado grill? I always used a water pan because it would keep the meat moist while keeping the ceramic plate clean. You don't get that burn sugar smell to that some of those sugar base rubs gets.
I hope you can provide some info with my issue. I purchased the Grill Gun and when it works, it works great. But after a couple uses it doesn’t work properly. I have used both a 5 gal bottle a cylinder. Both have propane in the bottle but I can’t get the full BTU output. I’m thinking since it’s 400k BTU that may be the issue so I’m thinking of trying the Su Vgun which is 240k BTU but I don’t want the same issue. I see you use the Vgun in most your videos and am assuming you don’t have this issue? I have tried calling Grill Blazer and have sent an email as well but have not heard from them. I am hoping you can provide some insight.....thanks soooo much! :)
my neighbour had an issue and got a service kit from them that fixed the issue, it was a gasket
@@SmokingDadBBQ Thanks so much for getting back to me. And thanks so much for recommending and representing quality products. Shortly after I reached out to you for assistance, GrillBlazer responded to my issue. They were super great in solving the issue and it now works great! :) I’m so glad I did contact them for the issue wasn’t with the gun....it was with the operator! :))) I didn’t release the pressure in the hose which caused condensation and my problem. It was super easy to clean both the hose and the gun. Now back to watching more of your video’s! :)
Steam very important for crisp crust with Baguettes.
Nice job as always !!!
Thanks!
pork tenderloin??? great videos as always!!!
Hi James have you tried Coconut Shell Charcoal
I vote for Chuck roast with & without comparative test.
When cooking pork butts, I find the increased humidity from the water pan causes the fat cap to split open and separate ruining the bark.
hmm interesting observation, will have to look for that
Where do you get the Fogo in Burlington?
What Kamado do you use more and why
I am so confused. I watched the videos with rule N1 being that reflective things need to be put into COLD grill, never hot because they will crack
Moist air is better for smoke. Moist air also helps for even cooking.
I would like to see a brisket for the next test.