The most heartbreaking thing about this whole scenario is that it could've entirely been avoided if there was actually a safety net for people in need. And sadly, that's arguably the biggest issue with America. It is the #1 source and root of several instances of injustice, from mass shootings to petty crime. The system is failing everyone but nobody in the mainstream even tries to implement alternatives because they either profit directly or indirectly from this state of chaos. As someone who is mentally ill and needed help, my heart breaks everytime I hear stories like these because I've been in situations that almost lead to something like this happening and resonate with the victims. I've had good friends go homeless or insane and I'm tired of acting like it isn't a massive problem in America.
I wonder if mayor Adams is mostly to blame as he had cops clear the subways of homeless which could have made performing for donations harder, and Adams destroys homeless encampments so ppl are just expected to wander around afraid of the cops. I'm sure there aren't many places to get even food or water. F'ing evil.
I've been homeless. I have mental health issues. There is very little in the way of social services or mental health services that isn't polluted by the two prominent ideologies in America today. Conservatives underfund or outright abolish such services and Neoliberal Democrats impose means-testing and structure entitlements in such a way 'to encourage people to get off welfare'. What is left is a bureaucracy that is nearly impossible to navigate under the best circumstances. If you are poor, have no transportation, no computer, no internet, no home address it is hopeless. The last time I bothered to re-up my food stamps, because I had to prove every 3 months, with the same documentation, that yes, I am still poor and it took a full day on public transportation and waiting at the office to get $16.25 for a month's worth of food. It became crystal clear when I was no longer the one ignoring the homeless but the homeless being ignored, IF YOU ARE POOR AMERICA WANTS YOU TO DIE OUT OF SIGHT. All of the problems I have described and more are a choice that we have made.... ARE making every day.
Dude there is a reason why in MMA the SECOND someone goes limp from a choke they immediately stop them. Because people can easily die! It's absolutely unreal to me that he continued choking him AFTER HE WAS OUT. This is straight up murder.
Why are none of you able to explain why he's still struggling at the 14 minute mark of 15 minutes if he's been in a chokehold that long? Did you take five seconds to analyze if maybe he wasn't actually being choked that whole time being held down? Where is the mental disconnect for you?
I've done jiu jitsu for three years now. The thought of having someone stronger than me put me in a full throttled rear naked choke for more than 10 to 15 seconds is pretty daunting. When this choke is secured, you have a few seconds to tap or night, night. Add 15 minutes + two other adults holding you down. Good damn nightmare.
That's what I've been saying! I was a Marine for 5 years, and I immediately recognized the choke. Neely should have went limp in about 30 seconds if the other guy actually had the hold, but the witnesses claimed he was fully conscious for the full 15 minutes. I don't know what else was going on in Neely's body or the other guy's mind, but those two things just don't seem possible to me.
He didn't have a choke hold on the guy for 10-15 minutes. That's misinformation 🤦he also put him in the recovery position afterwards, the guy was also alive all the way to the hospital. He died at the hospital so I'm just curious why noone questions that 🤔I mean did the hospital workers do what they could to keep him alive🤷 just saying everything should be questioned
@@nickt2559 by the time he put him in the recovery position it was already too late. To act like what penny did was not a critical factor in Neely’s death is ridiculous. You’re really trying to pawn off liability on the hospital staff. 🤦♂️
I ultimately thank Reagan for emptying the Mental Hospitals. Neely should have been under humane medical supervision not on the streets. Also the government refuses to House these people as well. I go with George Carlin’s explanation on the Homeless, it is to show the rest of us to stay wage slaves and work yourself to death or you will end up like those wretched beings. Nobody should be homeless and hungry in the richest country humanity has ever known.
Ultimately, it was JFK who allowed the hollowing of the US' mental health facilities. A law he passed allowed states greater freedom to reappropriate federal funds originally intended for mental health resources. Then came a gradual effort on the state level over the following decades to defund these resources. It is specious to pin all of this on a single president. This was the product of a massive counter-cultural movement in the 1960/70s that believed closing mental institutions was part of a larger fight against authoritarianism.
Blame Reagan all you want. NYC has a far left democrat super majority in every single governing body. Including city council, mayor, governor etc. The woke left is to blame
Just a quick correction Kyle, I did actually see another video where one of the bystanders says something like “you gotta let him go now, you’re gonna kill him.” So at least one person did speak up and try to stop him. I haven’t been able to find the video again so far though but it’s definitely out there somewhere.
Kyle basically said the killing seems justified to a degree. Nothing about it seems justified. And I don't know if Kyle pandering to racist WP or what.
@@jack1uptone963 I didn't watch this video & I'm glad I didn't if he said it was justified to a degree. It was not justified at all in my opinion. Unbelievable
Trained in army combatives and been certified as a medic for over ten years. When you apply a rear-naked choke and you cut off blood to the brain, the following occurs: 5-10 seconds: loss of consciousness 1 minute: irreversible brain damage begins 5 minutes: brain death occurs When you have brain death, you are dead. No amount of rescue breathing, CPR, or shocking the heart will save you.
The fact the former sergeant in the Marines claims not to have known this, and the fact he never adjusted course while strangling a corpse for ten minutes? He should be suspected of murder, and charged with 1st degree manslaughter at the very least. The unwillingness of the cops and prosecutor to take this seriously is even more terrifying than casual homicide in public.
@Blahblahsaurus I don't know much about Marine Corps training, I am under the impression that they are all trained in MCMAP which would train them in the use of that choke and what it does to the human body.
Correct and highly disturbing. I contend the 5 minute mark. I say death can occur in 2 minutes but a more certain estimate is 5 minutes. It would also depend on the victim. However 15 minutes is way too long and that penny guy knew what he was doing. He killed a man.
@@blahblahsaurus2458 He probably felt the victim go cold... Marines know the difference between blood and air chokes well. If he was using an air choke he was intentionally torturing the man before he killed him. As a Marine he likey used a blood choke to end the victim.
This didn't look like a blood choke to me, mr. combatives, this looks like a BREATH choke, which takes much longer to kill someone from. This looks like an incorrectly done choke hold by someone who thought they were an action movie hero on a hungry and mentally ill homeless person. If the video that Kyle played is the extent of what he was doing, then there was absolutely no reason to do anything to him. To me it looks like a white Chad-like person got scared of a loud black person and overreacted, at least on the face of it. Will wait to see more, but this shit don't look good man. We can't have random people thinking it's ok to choke someone to death because they made them nervous. How many times do we have to watch people choke other people to death on video before we realize that this shit is not OK, and there is a reason the police are not allowed to use holds like this. It's WAY to easy to do serious damage that will result in death within seconds.
Get money out of healthcare. I’m a nurse and this is all because healthcare is a business. People like him used to live their whole lives in a mental institution. It’s all about money discharging and admitting people over and over. It’s a revolving door. I was a psych nurse. Now I work in jails and prisons because it’s safer. HEALTH CARE IS A HUMAN RIGHT.
We went from the extreme of imprisonment for like for “incurably” different and embarrassing people to refusing them in-patient care. It is a society-wide madness how we treat mentally I’ll people
@@excelself I have friends who are schizophrenic, they can manage their day, though it isn't easy. But they live not in the US where healthcare is a business.
@@dullyvampir83 Then if you can’t understand our laws why are you even commenting on something you don’t know? Here we can’t FORCIBLY medicate someone it is against the law. The only way is to spend thousands of dollars not from healthcare but the justice system to allow family to even put someone on medication.
Lawyers for Daniel Penny issued a statement which said Penny "could not have foreseen" Neely's "untimely death". That is just false on its face. He's a former Marine Sergeant. That means that he used to be responsible for the proficiency, training and administration of Marines in his charge. Wouldn't that mean that he trained his junior Marines in hand-to-hand combat? How could Penny NOT have foreseen that a 15 minute chokehold would result in the untimely death of the person he was choking? How did he get promoted to Sergeant if he did not know this simple fact?
He could have been a cyber marine then he would not have been practicing combat as much as other marines and he certainly wouldn’t lead combat training. That being said if he was unqualified in combat he shouldn’t have tried such a dangerous hold. He would at least know that.
@@threeofeight197 Doesn't matter, this is stuff they teach Marines in basic training and AIT. Literally every Marine is trained in basic hand to hand combat.
Good Samaritan law protects him. He was no longer a marine and thus was not certified or up to standards. He was a civilian. If a retired doctor jumps in to save someone and that person dies you can not sue the retired doctor for malpractice. The question is was the response within reason and if the homeless guy was violent then the guy is covered. Given the amount of people holding him down and the lack of care by the people around them its highly likely he was violent.
@@Rainonasphalt when seeing your mom chopped up into pieces then leads to you developing a myriad of mental illnesses (that multiple ppl knew about btw (including the ‘system’ I’m assuming as that’s the only way he’d still be roaming the streets with 42 arrests as a black man)) then it’s not fuckin hard to see the correlation. Are you purposely being this dense or are you just that dumb? Does it justify or excuse his behavior. No. Like duh, no one is arguing that (and you know that). Does it explain it? Yes. And the fact that the system failed him so immensely is the reason he’s dead now. Also let’s say he was being a threat to others, is the sentence for threats the death penalty? Is it your duty as a citizen to extrajudicially murder someone (that is being restrained by MULTIPLE people)? I’ll give you a hint: the answer is no.
There was a point in the video when he appeared to still be alive and someone said "Your goanna catch a murder charge" and he still kept choking him. So yes this was murder
The fact that the justice system cares more about violent black people than innocent white people doesn't mean you let yourself or other innocent people get killed
Commenting as a person that has been training in Jujitsu for nearly 50 years, I going to eliminate whatever happened before argument because it's irrelevant. The reason for this is because for whatever reason this marine, who is a trained killer I might add, decided to take action. Once he had Jordan in the rear naked choke hold, he was in full control. He could've released the hold enough for Jordan to breathe and still maintain control of him. Also the fact that other people was assisting in restraining him as well. Now, if this marine said that he did not know he was killing him, he's lying. Every person that is trained to do this technique, Martial artists and the military which this marine he is a part of knows exactly how it feels to have done on them. Because they have to practice on each other, that's why we tap to release the hold. I refuse to believe that he did not know what he was doing. Having a choke hold full on, for 15 mins there would be no other outcome. So if anyone tries to say it's on non lethal technique, do not know what they're talking about. when you put a choke hold on, you are essentially depriving someone of air. The only possible defence the marine 's got, he may have thought he was putting on a strangle hold on which is slightly different from a choke hold which is applied to the side of the neck and deprives blood to the brain. The average person would know this as a sleeper hold. Even then, 15 mins is still too long!
"If you don't have five centuries worth of self defense training, just let the homeless guy shank you on the train" I condensed what you said down a bit.
@@johnnysupreme5718 Did you ask your Mommy and Daddy for permission to get internet access? This is way above your understanding and comprehension little boy, this is an adults only conversation.🤷♂
As a fighter it is absolutely insane to be choking someone for 15 minutes bottomline this is murder. Regardless of intent you killed a defenseless mentally ill person he needs to be held accountable.
That what I'm saying, I simply don't believe that anyone with any training would not know that you can't choke someone for more than a minute without causing permanent damage
Thank you!!! Did he grate on your nerves here with his take or is it just me? I love Kyle and know he can be a little conservative at times compared to other leftists but expected better from him here and am disappointed tbh.
@@getasimbe He didn't care if he killed him at best and wanted to at worst. He's the true danger to society as opposed to the victim who likely just needed care. Kyle's take here kinda sucks.
I was homeless for YEARS and here's the way to treat a homeless person, LIKE THEY ARE A HUMAN BEING. When I was homeless I can't remember any of the "flowery" speeches I was given, but I remember the people who acted like I was part of the human race and not being treated like an animal. Humans are not animals and we treat the homeless and the poor as if they are at fault and America is the most vile thing when it comes to the poor and unhoused the news character assassinated Neely while acting like they didn't know who murdered him. Complaining about being hungry isn't a crime and neither is "threatening" a death sentence. I don't care if he was threatening people because "Just because you deserve to see a judge, you don't deserve to meet your maker."
Great. Did you also get arrested 42 times including for KIDNAPPING a 7 year old girl, and punching a 67 year old woman in the face, AND punching a 64 year old man in the face? Just curious "Jordan Neely has been arrested numerous times and has a reputation for causing disturbances; he once pleaded guilty to attempted kidnapping when he was caught dragging a 7-year-old girl down an Inwood street. The New York Daily News reported: Neely was arrested 42 times across the last decade, with his most recent bust in November 2021 for slugging a 67-year-old female stranger in the face as she exited a subway station in the East Village, cops said. The senior citizen suffered a broken nose and fractured orbital bone when she was knocked to the sidewalk, along with swelling and “substantial” head pain after hitting the ground. Neely eventually pleaded to felony assault and received 15 months in an alternative-to-incarceration program that, if completed, would have allowed him to plead to misdemeanor assault and get a conditional discharge. But a warrant was issued for his arrest on Feb. 23, when he skipped a court compliance court date where a judge was to be updated on whether he was meeting all the requirements of the program. On June 27, 2019, Neely was arrested for punching a 64-year-old man in the face during a fight in a Greenwich Village subway station, cops said. And he was busted in August 2015 for attempted kidnapping after he was seen dragging a 7-year-old girl down an Inwood street. He pled guilty to endangering the welfare of a child and was sentenced to four months in jail."
Wasn't for 15 minutes and it was a restraint on the spitter who was high as a kite..as usual..and threatening to kill everyone on the train..especially women and children.
@@seewulf2385 really he threatened to kill everyone on the train? Really? A restraint doesn’t end up killing the perpetrator. There was 3 of them if they wanted to it would be pretty easy to restrain a homeless guy. Homeless ppl don’t have super human strength.
@@codbdup88 Absolutely..Little girls should just wait to be dragged down the street screaming by the hopped up lunatic like the last time..and Grandmothers must wait quietly, patiently for the blow that cracks their eye sockets and nose....oh and citizens must stand transfixed until he decides to shove them under a train.. The spitters career is over...killed by alvin bragg and the idiots running New York..the guverness is a player too.. Thanks for your whizdumb..and don't buy the media drivel..They lie.
As a New Yorker, I can't count how many times I've been on the train when a likely crazy, likely homeless person entered the car and started acting weird, loud, or verbally aggressive. In each case, the same thing happened. Locals pretended to be asleep or dropped their eyes to their book, phone, etc. while outsiders looked on, gobsmacked. Then the person would head to another car or exit the train. To imagine a timeline where each one of those encounters ended in that person's death instead is unfathomable. Even when someone's behavior is threatening, it doesn't mean they're a threat. No one should neglect their own safety, obviously. But sometimes, if you're afraid of something escalating, the last thing you should do is escalate it yourself. So unless Neely was actually putting his hands on someone, I don't condone attacking him despite any verbal threats he allegedly made. As for Penny, his claim that he didn't intend to kill Neely is meaningless. Even if he weren't a marine with combat training, we've had enough high profile cases in the past few years alone of men dying from being knelt on or choked. There should be no functioning adult left in this country who doesn't understand that unless you WANT to kill someone, you probably shouldn't squeeze their throat for 15 minutes. Worse than meaningless, it's suspect, because he IS a trained marine who I imagine is well aware of the consequences of a chokehold and how long it takes to do real harm. Moreover, others were helping. You're telling me three men, including a former marine, are incapable of holding a skinny homeless man down without one of them strangling him? And for 15 minutes? For anyone who thinks that's reasonable, do me a favor. Sit there and stare at a clock for 15 minutes. Now imagine having someone in a chokehold for that long. That's not a reckless oopsie in the moment that just happened so fast. That was a choice. And that's not even addressing the claim that witnesses told him to let Neely go because he was going to kill him, citing that Neely defecated himself and was passing out. Surely, someone who "didn't mean" to kill Neely would've stopped choking him when people said "stop or he'll die". So at the moment, at best, I see Penny as no better than a cop who used excessive force on someone who stole an onion. Sure, that person should've been dealt with but not like that. At worst, I see Penny as yet another white dude who doesn't value black life (or homeless life or mentally unstable life) enough to have treated Neely like a human being who needs a timeout rather than an animal you have to put down. As for knowing the facts, the only facts that matter are the ones relevant to the question at hand, and the question here isn't why Neely was behaving erratically. It's whether or not Penny was justified in the actions he took that led to Neely's death. That question can't be answered with facts Penny had no knowledge of because things you don't know can't influence your behavior. Neely's criminal record, mental illness, strained relationships, grief. If Penny wasn't aware, it's moot. The only people served by having information he DIDN'T are those who seek to devalue his victim after the fact, which is par for the course. So the folks you think are crazy for saying it isn't necessary to dig into Neely's past in that way are correct.
Yeah, me too - I've seen so many crazy homeless people on the subway and 99.9% of the time there's no confrontation - just ignore them - if you're nervous you can get off the train at the next stop - and that train obviously wasn't running more than 15 minutes straight without stopping - if Neely was such a threat, Penny and the other guys could have restrained him and forced him off the train at the next stop and then could have taken him to the NYPD who are roaming the subways
when you have 20+ witnesses, literally in the police report, saying that this person was endangering public safety and needed to be restrained, and on top of that you have three grown men who independently took it upon themselves to restrain this guy. He was obviously doing more than begging for food on the train. to the point where the DA personally brought charges when the responding officers didn't. Obviously means there's more to the story. Kyle is the worst at providing context. He is a grifter. Krystal needs to leave him
The choke he used was one that they teach you in boot camp. It's called a "Rear-Naked Choke" and it's supposed to be a very non-lethal blood choke as opposed to a very lethal air choke.
@@KennedyIvy what a calloused and immature perspective. If we had affordable health care services like the rest of the world maybe we wouldn't have these issues constantly. But instead of thinking about that let's dehumanize homeless people.
Unfortunately schizophrenic people can be violent in unpredictable ways, the fact we just ditched In patient living facilities all together is a crazy as the people who needed them.. I can understand if he was threatening that people restrained him, but defending choking the clearly mentally ill man for that long… Penny is a marine too, he knew exactly what he was doing. Manslaughter is lenient in my opinion.
Why are none of you able to explain how he was still struggling at the 14 minute mark if he's been choked for that long, while also saying that no one can survive a trained chokehold for longer than a few seconds? At what point do you realize the mental disconnect there?
@@fintan9218 You are repeating the same lines of "he choked him for that long". Don't play semantics. You know good and well you're referring to the same 15 minute line being parrotted all over the comment section.
@@Chevalier1632 i was referring to him choking the guy to death… again the police have all the evidence(which you and i dont) and they charged Penny with manslaughter. My reference had to do with the fact Penny is a Marine, extremely well trained, so able to know if he was cutting off oxygen/killing him.
@@fintan9218 You're basing it off of "choking him for that long when he knew what he was doing" when you can literally see him struggling several minutes in at different times, which is literally not possible if he was being choked out for a full 15 minutes. They charged him because a man died and an investigation has to be made, but that hasn't stopped all of you from saying that automatically means they think he's guilty from that. You already made your own determination despite saying we don't have the evidence, so it's not like I'm over here just making things up and jumping to conclusions. I'm using your own words and your backing off while saying I'm fabricating.
20 years into BJJ. Don't have all the info but know for sure that it's possible to properly control a person with a rear naked choke without choking them out and certainly without killing them. So again, without having all the infos about the circumstance of this particular situation ending up killing Mr. Neely seems somewhat excessive to me.
I also do BJJ and agree. To kill him he would've had to have had the choke in very tight, and you can tell when someone is struggling to breathe. The other people were also holding his hands which made him completely vulnerable to whatever pressure of choke the guy decided to do. I think manslaughter is probably the way to go.
@@talyahr3302 I agree except it should be murder. The guy was a marine and he knew that slapping a choke like that on someone for 15 minutes would kill him. He’s a murderer. He needs to be locked up
My dude bein discharged at a young age can just be puffin a joint dude or snortin a lil coke, its never somethin serious. If he was court martial its serious and normal discharge is not
The Conservative Twins, who I don't agree with most of the time, actuslly had a good take on this. It went from being self defense to criminal when he chose to keep the hold on him after he stopped moving and making noise.
From what I know we have two versions, once version said he choked him for 15 minutes and the other version said 3 minutes, and was the police who took 15 minutes to arrive at the scene.
Greg Abbott continuously says assault weapons are not causing mass shootings, it's mental health issues as he continuously cuts mental health services in Texas.
As a father of 3 boys with AUTISM, this is my worst nightmare, this poor man is desperate for help and just trying to stay alive. He is responsible for his own survival for the first time in his life and doesn't know what to do. My heart is broken for this poor man, his Mom was his whole life and he can't comprehend what happened.
@@frankparise583 Thank goodness your brother has you as a backup plan, this situation requires a family group effort for long term care and Jordan's left over family failed him.
He didn't actually choke him for 15 minutes, ffs. That's not what happened. That comes from ONE spanish speaking witness, who *guessed* that Neely had been *held* for 15 minutes. Then, all of these idiots started reporting that Neely was choked for 15 minutes. That's false. Literally "fake news". You should be embarrassed to not only have believed fake news.... but that you're actively spreading it. Absolute morons. Every single one of you.
Why would he want to kill him? Whats the motive there? Its much more likely he wanted the guy to stop moving and be unconscious and stop causing the other people to be in fear of what could be a knife attack. He only fucked up by not releasing right away, I'm sure he was scared too and was panicking.
@@ToasterBrain There areany reasons to kill. To feel simply better than is my guess. That righteousness seen in both religion, politics, philosophy, and simply over every day life. I always assume the number of "good" people in the world (those not infected by fear and ignorance) is the same amount of people helping Jews in Nazi Germany. Bad ideas sweep over the land constantly and it easy for the asleep to fall prey to the "shadows" (google it, Carl Jung) of our subconscious. As for the so called mistake.....There are ZERO Marines that do not know a 15 minutes rear naked blood choke means death. This, evil of fear, ignorance, and pride must have infected him. Wanna know how and why people justify hurting others? Go watch Joker and look at the "well to do" young wallst guys on the subway, then look again at my fellow Marine here. Too dark to handle? Then know you have darkness in your own heart and it is okay bc we all do. New tomorrows must come from the black infinite chaos but must use order to only birth the good shit, but life isn't possible without the bad shit, thus we will always have dark inside us. But the actions we choose within that is what defines us, not our shitty thoughts and subconscious murderous whims. My simple take hehe.
Marine combat veteran here, too. Every Marine knows there's a difference between an actual choke and a restraint not letting the dude loose. Every Marine also knows if Penny wanted to kill Neely, he could've done it in a lot less time.
There is now way that you don't know choking someone for 15 minutes will kill them.... Taking him down if you think he's a threat is one thing, but there is zero excuse for holding this man in a chokehold for 15 minutes.
As someone who is autistic, I know that some people perceive 'weird' as threatening. I wasn't there, and if he was actually being offensive and aggressive it makes sense to restrain him. His backstory wasn't the fault of the people on that train, but so many are guilty of the little things that create such situations. Btw, there's no "Autism medication". His father not knowing that is exactly an example of the kind of little thing I just mentioned.
THANK YOU. It upset me to hear " autism medication " because there is no such thing. His dad didn't have the compassion needed in his situation...as evidenced by speaking without really knowing.
@@IResonateWithU I can’t imagine what kind of meds he meant. Maybe he just wanted him sedated. SMH. That’s usually what is meant when ppl say that kind of thing.
@Three Of Eight exactly. Antidepressants probably, which are a bear to go through and find the ones you can actually live with. Imagine needing meds that require you take with food or water and what decides it is charitable people around you that day. That would be worse than being on none!! Only people who know KNOW.
He was not threatening anyone. He was hungry and thirsty. He was unarmed. it was not necessary to restrain him in any way. Toxic masculinity played a part in his murder.
Thank you so much for posting this comment. I'm also autistic (albeit late diagnosed due to a combination of issues with school system that evaluated me and the doctors involved). The environment can become disabling. It feels like a clear issue regarding the difference between the medical model of disability versus the social model. I was medicated growing up and did not feel like it assisted me at all because I was treated as ADHD. A misdiagnosis due to the inaccuracies in the information submitted to medical professionals. I also found out last year that I am dyspraxic... dyspraxia+autism traits present shockingly close to ADHD traits.
But it’s not the same. His intent was to restrain not to shoot. He was still struggling 13 minutes in. The marine was letting up on the hold in between so he never fully blacked out until the end.
Twice in my adult life have i been under physical attack. Both times i ended up with the upper hand and could have seriously injured or even killed the other person if i wanted to. They were at my mercy. Both times the attacker walked away with only minor injuries because it wasn't necessary for me to stomp them into the dirt or attempt to take their life and i wouldn't want to anyway. Here's the real take. Some people walking around in society are savages (not the good kind) and given the opportunity to be a savage they will do it. I'm speaking about the retired marine. I obviously don't know this guy but i do know Marines of all branches in the military are most heavily trained for deadly combat. I already don't trust relatively young people to have excellent decision making in high stress real world situations. A person in their early 20s doesn't have a fully developed brain (no offense, its science and we've all been there) and throw some "shoot first ask second" training on top of it and it's a bad situation. I think this guy was way too eager to dish out deadly force and im not surprised.
@@1ronin907 Yes, really. You can't justify an act you committed with information you found out after you committed said act. That's not how things work.
@@bobbun4369 like? That people on a public train don't know the arrest records of other people on a public train? Shockingly, that's an incredibly accurate assumption
@@mgerdes0331xcpet that hobo was well known... Kinda why you can find redit threads about him ... Lmao they cant have known who he is while at the same time claiming he was a known mj impersonator.... You leftists have zero consistency
In any beginner Jiu-Jitsu class on DAY ONE, you learn to release someone if they go limp when you're choking them. Choking someone for 15 minutes straight is just flat out, plain ol' murder.
Only he didn't choke him for 15 minutes, it was 90 seconds. Just like Kyle Rittenhouse didn't kill any black people (even though that lie is still being told). Stop being a puppet of state narratives.
@@johnnysupreme5718 Yeah, this is insane. They always work together to spread these idiotic lies, and then never own up to it when they're proven wrong. They just move on to the next lie. "I support the current thing". It's embarrassing to even exist in tandem with these mentally deficient, selfricheous, lying, clowns.
Why couldn’t this psycho just restrain the victim by holding his shoulders, his arms, or his head? Why would he even consider restricting his breathing by squeezing the neck? Even a child would be aware that constricting a person’s airway results in death. Was the killer mentally disabled? I don’t understand how this could ever happen …
This kind of choke when properly applied actually restricts blood flow to the brain, not airways. But your point is still valid. No need to apply the choke for that long a time. Situation got out of control
I saw your typical nyc subway panhandler. There was nothing violent or threatening about that! And Kyle, stop playing to the middle…this was a cold blooded lynching of a vulnerable person!
If someone does the menacing threatening stare at you: 1. Don't look away but also don't stare back. Just let the person know you do see him but don't do so in a confrontational manner. But don't ignore them. 2. Increase your self-awareness of the situation, and watch for a possible sucker punch, and begin to plan your options. 3. Start backing away, and try to exit the situation without violence. Do not take your eye of the person who is staring at you threatwise.
"Don't look away but also don't stare back. Just let the person know you do see him but don't do so in a confrontational manner. But don't ignore them.... Do not take your eye off the person who is staring at you threatwise." How do you continue looking at them without staring? Do you mean look at them but not in their eyes? Or look in the general direction of them but not directly at them?
This is a big part of the deescalation training I received working in behavioral health. Thank you for saying this. If more people knew it we would probably have a lot less needless death.
Chokeholds are illegal for this reason. Neely said he is hungry and thirsty! If so he is week and fatigued. No need for a UFC takedown or chokehold. If I was hungry as can be I would have a headache and have no ability to put up a fight. Those are context clues to help understand he is not asking for a fight. He is not in need of a ufc take down. Giving a full forced chokehold is negligent and reckless.
It's often positional asphyxia that cause death when people are restrained for long periods of time. The person can be breathing and talking and still die just from the position straining the system. Heart failure is common. If you don't know what positional asphyxia is then you have no business restraining anyone ever. If you hand cuff someone and leave them lieing face down they can die from PA in 15 minutes even though they are breathing and can talk. Try it some time get someone to tie your hand behind your back and roll you face down on the floor and not let you roll onto your side or stand up and set the timer for 5 minutes and if you still feel fine give it 5 more minutes even if your in good shape you'll be in serious trouble after 15 after 30 minutes. Then try it again with someone on top of you squeezing you are pining you face down and try that for 3 minutes it is like water boarding without the water!
@@gbgbgbgb1 o. My bad. He was in trouble previously, so even though he didn't really do anything this time, let's kill him. Does it hurt being that much of an ahole or are you completely oblivious to it?
I am Autistic, have CPTSD, religious trauma, bipolar I, ADHD and severe general anxiety. Few people care about the mentally ill but you have to understand we know there is no hell because the mentally ill can see the hell we all live in better than anyone. I just wish people could see and feel the horrors we deal with than judge us. My heart goes out to this poor soul. An autistic brother done evil by a system that would rather pretend we don't exist yet exploit our gifts and compassion.
Jordan Neely repeatedly commited violence against the elderly, attemtped to kidnap a 7 year old girl... among his many documented violent crimes. Jordan Neely got what he had coming. The world is better without him.
Neely was trying to kill people....he kidnapped a Child, beat an elderly woman and was trying to shove people in front of moving trains!!! Neely kidnapped a 7 year old black girl and beat an elderly woman cracking her skull but these are the type of people democrats support. 2 days before the incident Neeley tried to push someone in front of the train but they were able to fight him off and made a police report it is on the subway video feed but Neeley was never caught by the police....a friend of my family knows a detective with NYPD who said there are many assaults Neeley committed many of them women. Alvin Bragg has access to this video of Neeley attacking people on the subway but ignored it. I fear there are no fair trials happing in NYC the judicial system is corrupt!
That don't matter. A white guy 'killed' a poor oppressed black guy. Public outrage sealed this marine's fate. He shouldn't even be charged. Now, he goes to jail or city will burn. Jurors will fear for their lives and lives of their family. This country is a cesspool. We're defending a fkn another fn menace who will possibly get murals and statues built? Wow. Honk honk.
Anyone who takes public transportation regularly is completely familiar with mentally ill people and people behaving erratically for whatever reason. Normal people of good judgment ignore them without making eye contact, or they walk away and perhaps notify the transit police. They do not attack and kill them.
@@yourmother2739 i agree mom, however I believe it needs to be something done federally. As when some wealthy states or cities do great programs it ends up causing homeless people to travel there to get benefits. Which can basically make the problem worse and sadly get people angry at homeless. This is unfortunately something that needs a major federal program.
I'm from DC, lived in Baltimore and been to NY. Looks like regular big city activity to me. Move to the next train car and keep your hands to yourself 🤷🏾♀️
It doesn’t particularly matter to me if Neely was a criminal or was casted away by society or etc, nobody deserves to be killed unless they’re committing or have committed a crime that took or had the potential to take someone’s life.
Someone sitting somewhere not bring a threat doesn’t deserve to die. When that person starts making threats they become a threat, plain and simple. It is sad that people have mental health issues, but it is always going to be me and my loved ones over anyone. I wasn’t on the train so I will never truly know how much of a threat he actually was, but the fact that two other men were helping Penny restrain him gives me what I need to know.
@@TheLastLineLive every bit of information we have on this situation is in favor of Neely threatening people Literally nothing makes sense if Penny just walked up and choked the guy out
This event the culmination of so many issues in our society and has really made me emotional to even think about since it happened. -healthcare -housing -racism (you cannot convince me this situation would have been the same had the races been reversed) -“vigilantism” being praised by people on the right (Chauvin, Zimmerman, etc) -contempt/disdain for the homeless and/or “criminals” Jordan did not have a gun to anyone’s head, and had not TOUCHED or threatened physical violence on anyone on that train and this guy not only restrained him, but KNOWINGLY killed him. A random stranger. There is no “self defense” argument here as the marine initiated the physical violence. People ranting about Jordan’s criminal history, meanwhile the person that just MURDERED someone is being applauded as a hero. Is the punishment for scaring or making someone uneasy death now? In my opinion, the marine has extreme contempt for the homeless and saw an opportunity to stick it to one of them, and then his rage got the better of him. I don’t see how any other reasoning would align with his actions. He was not “saving” or “helping” anyone.
Reversed?! Hell, this wouldn't have happened if it was honey-on-honkey. No whyte guy is going to kill a random whyte unhoused person in public and think he's going to get away with it. You ONLY do that with those you don't respect the life of. Honkeys have *been* *done* gone too far; they have fucked around, and it's high time we made them find out! We Black Folk. You're probably part of the problem, Hannah. Your neanderthal genes determine you are the problem.
Lol, you are simply incorrect. No matter what race the person is, this would have happened. Because decent, moral people understand that this kind of behavior is NEVER okay. Neely had a history of violent behavior, but your beloved leftist prosecutors did NOTHING except let him go on and continue acting violently instead of helping him get help. Also, is Daniel Penny supposed to wait until Neely hurts/kills someone to take action? No. If it were you, would you want someone to step in and help? Would you want someone to get Neely away from you? Or are you telling me you would be totally fine with this. None of this means he deserved to die, but Penny certainly acted rationally here.
But you know what, let’s continue down the path you want the world to go. I can’t wait until you realize you and your side has been wrong the whole time. All of this will come crashing down because man are these cities going to shit.
@@andrewharrill9960 honest question: What was your 1st reaction when you learned the homeless man was black. If you scoured the net looking for his criminal record then that explains a good deal. Did the dead man have a criminal history and a history of assaulting people? *Yes* Did Danny know this going into the situation? *No* Was your reaction to someone who should be *arrested* but is now dead. *”he got what he deserved”* *Yes* So basically you are advocating for vigilantism regardless of the severity of the crime. No one is blaming the man for subduing the now deceased man. What we ARE advocating is this went too far and it has become all too common. The Rantings of a mentally ill man scaring people on the train is *NOT* a good justification for killing him. No amount of being fed up with dealing with people making your day less peaceful will change that. Should I unalive every Trump voter when they inconvenience me with name calling and bigoted remarks and actual threats to my life? I mean by your logic I would be within my right if they have a criminal record…right? And celebrating any person’s death and causally dismissing it as a good thing in this particular case is a sign of an alarming growing trend in the US. Glad I’m leaving because,honestly, F’ck this country. You people are batshit crazy.
@@andrewharrill9960 It's not only that your bullshit lies about Mr. Neely's past history are the type of garbage reasoning that assholes use to justify violence, but YES, dipshit, he does actually have to make an attempt at harming someone before harm comes to him. Ya see, the reasoning is in this little document that you neanderthal descendants always like to bring up, and it says that you are INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY. But really.... I missed it... what, exactly, was it that you claimed warranted Mr. Neely's death again?
Well there's a another problem because he was given a chance for proper treatment and housing. He had received treatment in the past. But just as his Father said he refused to take his medication he also refused to go into treatment. So I mean short of involuntary commitment against his wil what more could have been done?
Maybe an average person with no experience in restraining someone, and who somehow didn't notice the guy falling unconscious, could be let off with a lower manslaughter charge. The ex marine, however, should know exactly what the effect of a chokehold is - that's why he appointed himself a vigilante and choked him instead of, you know, just restraining him until the police could get involved. In light of that, I can't fathom why he's being charged with less than _first_ degree manslaughter, and he should at least be investigated as a murder suspect. It's pretty incredible to maintain a chokehold on a corpse, having gone through relevant training, and never once thinking "hmm, I wonder if this guy who hasn't moved for ten minutes is getting enough oxygen". The fact the NYPD initially let him go without charging him AT ALL? That's fucking terrifying.
"The fact the NYPD initially let him go without charging him AT ALL? That's fucking terrifying" That's why they're hiding the footage so much; the judge saw the entire situation unfold and it clearly shows Neely threatening people before being restrained. It also shows Penny putting Neely into a recovery position after he passes out. The NYPD actually spent more than five seconds learning about the situation instead of doing what your local assmad liberal did and just assuming a white guy defending himself from a black guy is a genocidal lunatic KKK leader.
Actually, the white man standing awkwardly did indeed attempt to STOP Penny. There's a video out yesterday that shows him putting his hold down, in a "Stop" ✋position and one of the other guys holding Neeley's arms, told him to back off. Several others can be heard saying, "You're killing him." The white man suggested turning him into his side, and was told to back off. And this Penny pertain is a trained killer. He's also been trained what happens when you choke hold someone for 15 minutes. The military teaches people how to know when someone is dead/dying. And common sense should tell someone that's got "dead weight" on them...they're likely dead. That Marine had NO right to put his hands on that man. It's just another disgusting statement about how deadly it is to live in America. The whole world watches stories such as these. And the whole world thinks America is dangerous, deadly dangerous. 8f not by a rando worth an AR, it's murder-by-cop, and if not that, it's a former Marine worth an ego problem that's been taught how to kill with no regret. #fuckinggross
This is what this man was subdued and died for? If there is nothing more, then the subsuer that killed him belongs in jail. The world sat by and watched George Floyd be choked to death in real time, and most of us wished that we could have intervened and stopped it. Did any of these people learn from that incident? Oh, how quickly we forget as a species, and this is why if we either forget or don't learn from our history, we are doomed to repeat it.PEACE!!
The way he stared down at neely while he choked the life out of him was disturbing. As if he couldn't have restrained him. He made the decision to use lethal force every second after neely lost consciousness.
Why isn't anyone pointing out the possibility that D Penning is probably a white supremacist, considering how he turned himself in wearing those white shoe strings with sneakers and a casual suit? White shoe strings is a white supremacist dress code.
I’m not saying Neely should have been killed but as someone living in a major city, regular people are getting tired of being screamed at and attacked by mentally unstable homeless people on an everyday basis.
There’s no other way around it, society failed him. This is absolutely devastating. Honestly look at this from the most natural perspective, here’s a damaged human being and no one helped. I still can’t believe just how easy you can kill someone and they dont care because he’s homeless. Wow. Stay safe out there brothers and sisters.
You can't believe that? You and everyone you know, including me, ignore the homeless, the mentally ill, the poor and through our inaction allow their deaths. If I seem angry it's because I have been homeless and I KNOW what you're unwilling to admit, THIS COUNTRY *HATES* THE POOR.
People have tried to help him, he just wouldn’t open up and stayed quiet letting it fester inside he wouldn’t take medication and his decisions caught up to him. I feel bad for the guy but when you refuse to take help seriously it’s going to be bad for the individual. I myself was going through a ruff time seeing my father get taken away from me because the system wasn’t helping him. I saw that my health was rapidly deteriorating but I swallowed my pride and got help. I knew my father wouldn’t want my potential get wasted and fester over something that’s inevitable death.
@@alex4863 He almost certainly had trouble communicating in an open way that society would expect because of his autism. And, with PTSD and depression plus grief and the trauma of loss, on top of an exacerbated pronouncement of schizophrenia and again autism, which characteristically hinders social connections he needed someone to reach to him, toward him. I understand that he was an adult. But, he had problems that he did not have the ability to manage on his own. He was not able to overcome them. They overcame him. So, yes he was an adult. But he needed more help. It is a difficult situation. But, we as a society should be ashamed of ourselves that we do not offer more help to people in need. So, now he's dead. No one needs to try and help him anymore. One more person failed by supposedly the richest and greatest country in the world.
We need to define choke holds lasting more than 2 min as an attempt at murder in the first degree. I mean ANY choke hold lasting more than 2 minutes when executed by ANYONE no matter their background or job.
Floyd: "You can't put your weight on a person if they're trying to kill you" Rittenhouse: "You can't shoot someone trying to kill you" Penny: "You can't restrain someone trying to kill you" why not just make self defense illegal and be done with it? It really seems like the narrative you're all pushing.
Theres different types of choke holds. Theres a blood choke and an air choke. An air choke is when you block the air way so that the person suffocates. A blood choke is when you stop blood flow on the arteries. A well placed blood choke will make someone black out in around 8 seconds. Every second after the choke is applied death and permanent injury is higher. So this marine had no idea what he was doing or he lost control. No way would I ever hold a well placed choke longer than 8 seconds.
Yeah, clearly there's a part of the video where Penny takes out a huge encyclopedia of rest holds and does three hours worth of research before he restrains Neely
@@GS-kj5pc Do whitebelts know that a common side effect of threatening/assaulting people has a common side effect of getting your ass kicked at best and killed at worst?
It’s really annoying when people defend Daniel Penny by basically saying he did the public a favor by killing Jordan Neely. This incident goes to show how the extremists have taken over the country. We have manslaughter charges for a reason. There’s nothing political about him being charged with an appropriate charge. If there is a longer video demonstrating that Neely threatened people with bodily harm and used a level of intimidation that indicated his willingness and intent to hurt someone such as acting out or motioning to hit someone - I’m willing to defend Penny’s use of force. I’m sure the defense would argue a reasonable person would have no idea if Neely would’ve continued to be aggressive if Penny had let them go. Indeed, the situation will hinge on whether or not the force used would’ve been a reasonable course of action others would’ve taken. And with a chokehold: It is essentially a roll the dice simply because you don’t know a person’s medical history, if they’ve used alcohol and/or drugs, or if they are going into shock, seizure, or some of other medical complication is presenting. It’s why even knocking someone out cold can result in a manslaughter charge. It’s likely a prosecutor will make the argument that it’s unreasonable considering many police departments banned chokeholds citing what occurred to George Floyd. It’s a guessing game for the reasons so mentioned before, and you can’t accurately judge how long a person is deprived of oxygen. I imagine prosecutors will say that 15 minutes is excessive no matter the circumstances. Also due to the fact three people confronted Neely and it was reckless to put him a chokehold - I could see a guilty verdict and on the single second-degree manslaughter charge. And if there are other mitigating circumstances in favor of Penny such as eye witness testimony - he could be looking at 2-5 years. In the end, the political points that politicians are trying to win annoys me to no end especially since they do not want to offer any solutions aside from towing the line of basically making it okay to kill people if they get out of line or forget their place in the world.
@@oxkit0katxo413 And also nothing could have happened. Witnesses from day 01 said "he wasn't hurting anyone or doing anything to warrent being in a chokehold"... so please stop with the ridiculous "Anything could have happened" because you don't want to believe that a psycho didn't mind choking to death a poor homeless black male in Amerikkka.
@@oxkit0katxo413 If someone is taking a video while Neely is just talking, they would definitely be taking a video if he got violent. No one there has claimed Neely was violent.
@@ivandafoe5451 Were there any reports of Neely being physically violent? No, none that I’ve heard of anyways. But there WERE witnesses who said he was aggressively threatening other passengers including Penny. One witness said he made death threats against other passengers. And there IS video footage of the entire thing. As Kyle said, the police have it but haven’t released it to the press yet.
Dear god I wish someone could have given him some money for food. This is tragic it could have been prevented. The restraint was severe and he passed away.
Here's the thing. A chokehold can knock someone out in only SECONDS, not even minutes. A good chokehold only takes about 30 secs to incapacitate someone. You are basically being deprived of oxygen. Being deprived of oxygen for more than a few minutes (like 3-4+ minutes is enough to cause brain damage. 6+ minutes is enough to cause severe brain damage or even death. You'd be lucky to survive without serious brain injury after 5-6 minutes without oxygen. Since this man was a former member of the military, I think it's safe to assume that he might have had training on that. It's clearly murder, regardless of intent. I can be convinced that he was trying to defend himself or people on the train. That's fine. But to hold a chokehold on someone for that long is simply murder. Scientifically, that move was deadly. The dude would've been incapacitated within a few minutes and therefore wasn't a threat anymore. Your right to self defense ends once the other person is incapacitated. Any use of force after that is a crime.
A bunch of nonsensical assumptions about a situation that don't matter in the slightest. Penny put him in the hold, restrained him, then put him in a recovery position so he wouldn't die. The fact that you claim it's murder, which requires premeditation, also shows that the people pretending Penny is guilty of anything don't have a clear understanding of what actually happened and are working entirely off of emotion instead of the evidence and footage we already have.
@@johnnysupreme5718 1. Murder is the unjustified killing of another person. That's the general definition. Legally speaking, premeditated murder is typically considered 1st degree murder. So I do not know why you're saying "murder" requires premeditation. That's not true. 2nd degree murder is typically defined as unjustly killing another person without premeditation. 2. Interesting how he was put into this "recovery" position clearly after the guy was likely dead Idk about you, but if I'm put in a chokehold, I'm going to be moving my arms trying to free myself from the hold, which you could see Neely doing. The dude was trying to fucking breath. Once he was unconscious and unresponsive is when they finally let him go. But at that point it was too late. The dude was deprived of oxygen and died. The death according to the coroner was ruled a homicide due to "compression of the next." So the cause of death was that the dude couldn't breath while in the chokehold. He didn't die from complications later. The cause of death was the chokehold. Again, you have the right to defend yourself, but your force must be proportional. A chokehold is a deadly move. It should NOT be applied for several minutes as, again, that can cause brain damage or death. The force used wasn't proportional. There was no justification for being put in that hold for that long.
@@PrinceVigilanteX 1. It's the definition of murder that it's premediated. You can google it and see this, I don't know what to tell you. Manslaughter is the actual term for what you describe as 2nd degree murder. Unless Penny got on the train intending to kill Neely, the best charge you could possibly get is manslaughter. 2. You guys are still high off of Floyd and trying to get two in a row, it's not gonna happen. Neely was a threat, had to be restrained. It's not a crime even if the guy died in the hold, because letting him go would likely result in someone else getting harmed. But Penny showed that he didn't want to kill Neely by putting him into a recovery position; he went out of his way to help Neely. This isn't the hill you guys want to die on, the NYPD (who are blatantly and insanely biased towards Neely) didn't even bother charging Penny because of how clear cut this was. Penny is a marine and I think we all know Neely is going to end up being revealed as being on some kind of drug that would lead to his body not being as resilient as a normal person. If Penny wanted to kill the guy he probably could have beaten him to death in like 10 seconds. Three people held him down and he struggled right until he passed out; when Penny put him into a recovery position. Penny was behind Neely; holding him by the neck was the *LOGICAL* thing for him to do. Neely was held at the very most up until the police arrived; which is also the *LOGICAL* thing to do with a nutjob who is thrashing around because he got stopped in his attempt to kill you. The same people you're getting your information from said that Neely was held for 15 minutes; the court filing show that Penny hadn't even held him for half of that. You're being lied to by people who know exactly what happened and yet refuse to tell you the truth.
@@johnnysupreme5718 1. Yeah, I looked at the definition on Google. I don't want to spend all day debating semantics. There are more than one legal category for murder. Murder 1 is premeditation. Murder 2 is not premeditation. Go Google that. Manslaughter isn't legally considered murder, but morally speaking and colloquially, manslaughter is murder, because you unjustly killed someone. But manslaughter legally is a different killing of killing. It's basically an accidental killing. 2. I do not believe that he wanted to kill Neely. No, he attempted to retrain him. However, the way in which he went about restraining him was, IMO, excessive. First of all, you bring up "if he wanted to kill him then he would've beat him" as if the only way we know he'd want to kill him is by beating. There is more than one way to subdue someone. Some ways are more deadly than others. He did NOT need to use a chokehold to restrain him. He could've used a list of other maneuvers to subdue him. He chose literally one of the most dangerous ones. It was basically a rear naked choke or a sleeper hold. There are even different levels of chokeholds. In professional wrestling, for example, they put the maneuvers on but barely apply any pressure if any at all. MOST IMPORTANTLY, once the other two dudes were helping him, he could've let off the choke hold as there were other people holding him down too. You don't need to lock the move in all the way. Again, a legitimate chokehold for 30 seconds is enough to incapacitate someone. Have you ever watched UFC or MMA of any kind? You put a man in a chokehold for a few seconds and the other man is knocked out. It doesn't take that long. But Neely was in that choke for far too long. Eventually, the dude was unconscious and he still has the choke on. Last but not least, you said he did everything he could? Oh really. Did he or anyone check for a pulse? I saw people lifting the man's arm or moving his arm, but that's not checking for a pulse. I'd also assume that a member of the army might not CPR. Did they attempt that? Now I could get wrong, but I didn't hear anything about CPR. All I saw and heard about was basically he was put in a "recovery position". Literally all that means is they let him go and had him on the ground. I'm actually not against him using the chokehold. I'm against him using it for as long as he did. Now, you're saying that the dude may have been on some type of drug. Why did the coroner rule it as a homicide due to "compression of the neck" then?
Conservatives like it when homeless people die. That isnt an exaggeration. They dont want them fed. They dont want them housed. What happens to people with no food or shelter? Suffering is the goal. Always remember that.
I don't know... just saying some threatening shit is different than actually like aggressively coming at someone, or whatever. I still need more information, but IMO it doesn't look good. That guy had in in a straight UFC style rear naked choke and looking like he was really cranking down on it. We can't have people running around thinking its ok to choke someone out because they got a little scared.
The dead man was being strangled to death and his hands were being held so he could not loosen the restraint in his wind pipe. The strangler and his helper should be arrested.
When you kill him and he shits himself, don't hang on to the choke for another 12 minutes - anyone is dead after 3 minutes and a marine should know that.
Dude…. When you have someone’s back there is a massive asymmetry of power and control. You can easily control an untrained person (without choking them well past the point of unconsciousness). Not to mention the 3 on 1 dynamic that further pushes lopsided nature of the occasion. Even if he was overtly violent, by the time he was being choked to death there was no longer an immediate threat. Not enough info to fully adjudicate yet, so I guess we’ll.
He killed Neely. Theres zero doubt about that. A person goes limp way before they die from a chokehold. That guy was choked well after he went limp and was no threat. He should be facing murder charges, not manslaughter.
Ok, good point, at least someone here has some martial arts experience, but the report was that he didn't go limp, which really puzzles me. The choke he used was one that they teach you in boot camp. It's called a "Rear-Naked Choke" and it's supposed to be a very non-lethal blood choke as opposed to a very lethal air choke. I've actually been choked out in a grappling match. You feel the choke, if you don't tap you go limp, about 5 minutes later you're fine, but none of that happened here according to the witnesses. It could just be that he didn't have the hold, it could be that he was squeezing too tight, but either way, the guy shouldn't have died from the choke by itself 15 minutes later.
Everything Kyle mentioned about Jordan Neely's past record is irrelevant. The yt race soldier that choked him to death knew none of this. He just saw a skinny homeless black guy talking irrationally and he took it upon himself to put him in a choke hold, which killed him, with the help of three tethers.
As an RN. When I worked in mental health, we had to do holds. When we did have to restrain the patients we COULD NOT PUT THEM IN A CHOKE HOLD! Also,we could even hold them for longer than 5 minutes at a time!! That was completely unjustified! He was murdered!!
We can't green light murdering people because we're nervous about what they might do. If someone directly attacks, you should be able to defend yourself or another person. You shouldn't be able to preemptively kill people based off a fantasy in your head that someone might do something dangerous. Neely, was lynched.
I'm pretty new to BJJ, and I'm still at the level of trying to manage my emotions/stave off panic when I can't defend a choke. If the marine had gone too hard for a few seconds and killed him, I'd be like damn, that's tragic. But 15 minutes???? That's insanity. That's like holding someone's face down in a bucket of water for 15 minutes, except that a rear naked choke would actually kill you much faster and much more efficiently. You don't get to squeeze the life out of somebody over 15 minutes and then play victim when people call you out for being a murderer.
His behavior was definitely abnormal. You can't expect everyone to be an expert on everyone else's mental problems. We need mental institutions and better parenting.
I've come across people completely blasted out of their minds on drugs an alcohol before, even some making threats. The ones making threats, you just move to a safe distance and hope they get help. The ones not making threats, you can usually ignore them or, again, just move away from them. I've even talked to a few to ask if they were okay. What's the big difference? I'm a Canadian. Someone like this, in Canada, would be alive today, no doubt in my mind. No, force is NOT warranted for unsettling utterances, including threats. The US is a broken, hearltess country.
Penny, would have clearly been able to feel Jordan’s pulse, given he was pressed into his carotid arteries. He would’ve felt his pulse slow, his body go limp, then his pulse stop and his bowels release, all of this would’ve taken less than 5min to occur. He kept holding him for 10 more minutes. Jordan was 100lbs soaking wet and even those present said there was no direct threat toward anyone. Anyone claiming you can see him breath or move later on is mistaking involuntary “death rattles” as the various bodily system spasm after death. There’s a reason that maneuver has been deemed illegal, and being a trained Marine Penny knew full well what he was doing. After continuing that choke hold for longer than 15-20sec, he intended to kill that young man. And call me crazy but I don’t think it required 3 men to “restrain” a young man who is hungry and thirsty and as I said 100lbs soaking wet. I would see Jordan regularly on the subway which is why I can say he was not a large or muscular person. What they did was obviously excessive and as a trained Marine as I said he knew what he was doing which then means he intended to kill him which means Penny should be charged with murder, not manslaughter.
@@bobbun4369 you're right, you do that after you realize what you've done and that there's video recording of it and you want to try and cover your ass. Cops do that all the time. As I said, as a trained Marine he knew what he was doing. Jordan Neely was past the point of recovery long before Penny feigned any concern for his life. You also don't administer that maneuver especially for any period of time longer than 15-20sec unless you want to kill them. And a trained Marine employed it against an unarmed, malnourished, hungry and thirsty young man that was 100lbs soaking wet. Again, there is a reason why that maneuver has been deemed illegal, because it is deadly. Penny murdered Jordan Neely and I for one find it very sad that our society continues to fail him even posthumously after being extrajudicially murdered on camera.
Anybody who watches or is familiar with mma/jiu jitsu can recognize how insanely excessive 15 minutes in a choke is, trained fighters usually tap with seconds of a choke being locked in, if they go unconscious the ref will break it up within seconds. 15 minutes in a choke is a criminal. The second he was Restrained and had 3 people holding him down, the threat was neutralized. No need to carryy on, on his NECK no less.
Crazy how some people are immediately calling Penny a hero. Even if he was justified in restraining Neely(which idk if he was), how can he be a hero for killing him?
From the clips I’ve seen this is just an average day in NYC. I ride the subway a few times a week and you will always see a homeless person incoherently babbling. I always feel terrible for them but never see them as a threat to my safety
If the cops have a video of the entire incident and they are withholding it, then it's probably safe to assume the video does not make the marine look like a hero.
@@bobbun4369 If you strangle an unarmed person until they lose consciousness and then make a choice to continue to strangle their limp body until they die, then you are a murderer. Or did the marine not understand that people die when they can't breathe? Prisons were built for people like him.
It is such a Kyle Kulinski move to frame it as a difference between “People who think Penny was justified in killing him” and “people who think Jordan Neely did not deserve to be choked out and killed on the subway”. This guy is a moron because all of his takes are this juvenile. No one thinks that Neely deserved to die. I have no idea why Kyle is trying to frame it like that. The contention is over Neely being a threat or not and if that threat warranted self defense. The contention is not over whether Neely deserved to die or not. Neither side thinks that he deserved to die so it’s unnecessary to frame it like that.
this might be a hot take, but in evolution and darwinism, the dna transposer actually makes errors on purpose to cause higher rates of mutation, to change living things from what they are to something else, so it may adapt better to the environment. Also radiation and heavy particles from particle physics coming from outer space can actually penetrate solid objects and cut dna strands and that could also cause more mutations. So basically humans are supposed to keep changing. However there is no rational choice or design or any sentience behind the changes. This explains why every poll will have 8 percent of people voting the wrong way. They are damaged goods. 30-50 percent of the population are damaged goods to various extents, I don't think they should work, because a person that has a job, has tangible influence over other people's lives. Food safety, chemical safety, financial damage to innocent people. ect. In nature, or in older cultures, individuals too defective couldn't survive because there wasn't a societal safety net for them. Only in modern day do we keep homeless populations on the streets and let them live by seeking shelters in nooks and feeding off begging strangers. In old society before industrial revolution there wasn't enough resources to feed the beggars, most people could only feed themselves. A lot of these same individuals aren't homeless. Many unstable and mentally ill people find food and shelter with family or with strangers. Hot crazy women are kept off the street, until at least their good looks fade. In reality, the system was only functional as long as the crazies were culled. I know this is basically advocating for genocide, but on the other hand people are ignorantly turning away from facts and science and pretend like every mental illness or condition or disease has a medical cure, when in truth, as advanced our science seems, medical science is extremely primitive. we can't reach out and physically move molecules or atoms. We don't have nano bots or man made viruses to cure diseases. Everything that we do medically is done on a macro scale. Have a headache? take this thing that has a side effect of loosening your blood vessels. Have diarrhea? take this thing that has a side effect of slowing food travel through the digestive system so the guts have more time to absorb moisture. Were basically playing minesweeper with medical science trying to solve problems indirectly with blunt tools we have. The truth is, there is no cure, and there is no path to fix the mentally insane defective humans. Many such defects aren't superficial and are hard to detect. creating people that seem normal, cognizant, and mentally alert, that do weird, unexplainable, immoral and disgusting things, with no remorse or humanity. We just call them evil or a holes and pretend they are bad people and that there's nothing to do, when in reality they have brain damage, that they, or no one else can do anything about, that's causing their behavior, but you want to chastise them, hurt them, and torture them, because that's what they deserve because they are 'bad people'. That doesn't make sense, we're just pretending mental illness doesn't exist and lashing out in retaliation to cause suffering and pain to create self satisfaction that we're fighting evil.
'he didn't know he was going to die' feels like an absurd response to someone choking another person for 15 minutes. Even after they dedicated on themselves.
Apparently the defecation had been there before, at least according to another witness. He choked Neely until he stopped struggling then performed cpr and set him on his side so he would not choke in his own spit. It seems pretty obvious he had no lethal intent
Even if he was directly threatening people unless he initiated physical contact the choke is preemptive defense and when you’re doing preemptive defense instead of reactive it’s on you to be trained and competent with what you’re doing. A rear-naked choke hold is a choke we learn in jiu Jitsu that very often puts people unconscious in 6-8 seconds so 15 minutes is very overkill and not surprising that it was fatal.
The problem with accepting the narrative that "more info is better" when looking at a case like this is that the people who were involved didn't have any of that additional information. Information that isn't relevant easily biases a jury, but it also easily biases public opinion. And releasing a bunch of information like this about a dead guys rap sheet only serves to justify his killing. If he actually did anything to require being restrained, they would have just released the video, the fact they haven't speaks volumes.
When it comes to black people, they're always harder on the black person if they were killed by a whyte person than the white person who unjustly killed the black person. All we know about Penning is that he was in the Marines. Did Kyle say we should know just as much about Penning as we know about Jordan? Of course he'll say we should if asked. But he didn't really make it his business to ask much about him on his own.
"If he actually did anything to require being restrained, they would have just released the video" why would the media release a tape that makes a black man look bad They would never do that in a million years
Why didn't anyone try to talk to him ? Offer him to get him something to eat or drink . The fact that he was choked for that long is ridiculous . Deescalation is so much better . I've been on the Metro in DC , lived there for years , and I think Penny went too far .
The most heartbreaking thing about this whole scenario is that it could've entirely been avoided if there was actually a safety net for people in need. And sadly, that's arguably the biggest issue with America. It is the #1 source and root of several instances of injustice, from mass shootings to petty crime. The system is failing everyone but nobody in the mainstream even tries to implement alternatives because they either profit directly or indirectly from this state of chaos. As someone who is mentally ill and needed help, my heart breaks everytime I hear stories like these because I've been in situations that almost lead to something like this happening and resonate with the victims. I've had good friends go homeless or insane and I'm tired of acting like it isn't a massive problem in America.
So many cases apply to this
I wonder if mayor Adams is mostly to blame as he had cops clear the subways of homeless which could have made performing for donations harder, and Adams destroys homeless encampments so ppl are just expected to wander around afraid of the cops. I'm sure there aren't many places to get even food or water. F'ing evil.
Also,the misdiagnosis from mental health professionals using a book(DSM-5-TR)instead of asking questions.
💯
I've been homeless. I have mental health issues.
There is very little in the way of social services or mental health services that isn't polluted by the two prominent ideologies in America today. Conservatives underfund or outright abolish such services and Neoliberal Democrats impose means-testing and structure entitlements in such a way 'to encourage people to get off welfare'.
What is left is a bureaucracy that is nearly impossible to navigate under the best circumstances. If you are poor, have no transportation, no computer, no internet, no home address it is hopeless.
The last time I bothered to re-up my food stamps, because I had to prove every 3 months, with the same documentation, that yes, I am still poor and it took a full day on public transportation and waiting at the office to get $16.25 for a month's worth of food.
It became crystal clear when I was no longer the one ignoring the homeless but the homeless being ignored, IF YOU ARE POOR AMERICA WANTS YOU TO DIE OUT OF SIGHT.
All of the problems I have described and more are a choice that we have made.... ARE making every day.
Dude there is a reason why in MMA the SECOND someone goes limp from a choke they immediately stop them. Because people can easily die! It's absolutely unreal to me that he continued choking him AFTER HE WAS OUT. This is straight up murder.
Did you watch the vid? How long did he appear to be out? They definitely should’ve let go at that point. 15 mins is so long.
@@threeofeight197 I don't think any of the public has seen a full length vid. But the reports were that he was unconscious for most of the time.
Right wing folks are saying things like, "he wasn't calm yet". Who can stay calm when someone is killing them!??
Why are none of you able to explain why he's still struggling at the 14 minute mark of 15 minutes if he's been in a chokehold that long? Did you take five seconds to analyze if maybe he wasn't actually being choked that whole time being held down?
Where is the mental disconnect for you?
@@Chevalier1632 if you wanna make shit up and go against the actual court filings then go for it. Good way to ensure you're wrong though.
I've done jiu jitsu for three years now. The thought of having someone stronger than me put me in a full throttled rear naked choke for more than 10 to 15 seconds is pretty daunting. When this choke is secured, you have a few seconds to tap or night, night. Add 15 minutes + two other adults holding you down. Good damn nightmare.
That's what I've been saying! I was a Marine for 5 years, and I immediately recognized the choke. Neely should have went limp in about 30 seconds if the other guy actually had the hold, but the witnesses claimed he was fully conscious for the full 15 minutes. I don't know what else was going on in Neely's body or the other guy's mind, but those two things just don't seem possible to me.
@@bisurker it's completely embarassing that anybody argues that marine didn't know what he was doing
That wasn't what was happening though. You can see he isn't applying pressure throughout the videos.
He didn't have a choke hold on the guy for 10-15 minutes. That's misinformation 🤦he also put him in the recovery position afterwards, the guy was also alive all the way to the hospital. He died at the hospital so I'm just curious why noone questions that 🤔I mean did the hospital workers do what they could to keep him alive🤷 just saying everything should be questioned
@@nickt2559 by the time he put him in the recovery position it was already too late. To act like what penny did was not a critical factor in Neely’s death is ridiculous. You’re really trying to pawn off liability on the hospital staff. 🤦♂️
I ultimately thank Reagan for emptying the Mental Hospitals. Neely should have been under humane medical supervision not on the streets. Also the government refuses to House these people as well. I go with George Carlin’s explanation on the Homeless, it is to show the rest of us to stay wage slaves and work yourself to death or you will end up like those wretched beings. Nobody should be homeless and hungry in the richest country humanity has ever known.
Amen
Ultimately, it was JFK who allowed the hollowing of the US' mental health facilities. A law he passed allowed states greater freedom to reappropriate federal funds originally intended for mental health resources. Then came a gradual effort on the state level over the following decades to defund these resources. It is specious to pin all of this on a single president. This was the product of a massive counter-cultural movement in the 1960/70s that believed closing mental institutions was part of a larger fight against authoritarianism.
Definitely like how the concentration camps were humane
@@GUILLOTINE_GANGhuh
Blame Reagan all you want. NYC has a far left democrat super majority in every single governing body. Including city council, mayor, governor etc. The woke left is to blame
Just a quick correction Kyle, I did actually see another video where one of the bystanders says something like “you gotta let him go now, you’re gonna kill him.” So at least one person did speak up and try to stop him. I haven’t been able to find the video again so far though but it’s definitely out there somewhere.
👍👍👍 I saw that, too. He even suggested turning him into his side.
I saw that one also.
I saw one where a witness was trying to pour water on Jordan's head bc he looked BAD. The witness said Pennywise the clown told him to stop.
Kyle basically said the killing seems justified to a degree. Nothing about it seems justified. And I don't know if Kyle pandering to racist WP or what.
@@jack1uptone963 I didn't watch this video & I'm glad I didn't if he said it was justified to a degree.
It was not justified at all in my opinion. Unbelievable
How does a marine not know he is killing someone in a 15 min chokehold?
Or a five minute chokehold, for that matter. Psycho was choking out a corpse for ten minutes.
Wheres this 15 minute figure coming from, it might not even be accurate...
@King Koi Is there a justifiable number of minutes to be cut off from air? Honestly, someone with skills would have found a way to hold him ALIVE.
Having wrestled with Marines just playing around, I can verify, they don't know when they are killing someone. They play the same way they fight.
@@kingkoi6542 does it matter? Who cares if he killed him in 15 minutes or 15 seconds. Literally changes nothing.
Trained in army combatives and been certified as a medic for over ten years. When you apply a rear-naked choke and you cut off blood to the brain, the following occurs:
5-10 seconds: loss of consciousness
1 minute: irreversible brain damage begins
5 minutes: brain death occurs
When you have brain death, you are dead. No amount of rescue breathing, CPR, or shocking the heart will save you.
The fact the former sergeant in the Marines claims not to have known this, and the fact he never adjusted course while strangling a corpse for ten minutes? He should be suspected of murder, and charged with 1st degree manslaughter at the very least. The unwillingness of the cops and prosecutor to take this seriously is even more terrifying than casual homicide in public.
@Blahblahsaurus I don't know much about Marine Corps training, I am under the impression that they are all trained in MCMAP which would train them in the use of that choke and what it does to the human body.
Correct and highly disturbing. I contend the 5 minute mark. I say death can occur in 2 minutes but a more certain estimate is 5 minutes.
It would also depend on the victim.
However 15 minutes is way too long and that penny guy knew what he was doing.
He killed a man.
@@blahblahsaurus2458
He probably felt the victim go cold...
Marines know the difference between blood and air chokes well.
If he was using an air choke he was intentionally torturing the man before he killed him.
As a Marine he likey used a blood choke to end the victim.
This didn't look like a blood choke to me, mr. combatives, this looks like a BREATH choke, which takes much longer to kill someone from. This looks like an incorrectly done choke hold by someone who thought they were an action movie hero on a hungry and mentally ill homeless person.
If the video that Kyle played is the extent of what he was doing, then there was absolutely no reason to do anything to him.
To me it looks like a white Chad-like person got scared of a loud black person and overreacted, at least on the face of it. Will wait to see more, but this shit don't look good man. We can't have random people thinking it's ok to choke someone to death because they made them nervous. How many times do we have to watch people choke other people to death on video before we realize that this shit is not OK, and there is a reason the police are not allowed to use holds like this. It's WAY to easy to do serious damage that will result in death within seconds.
Get money out of healthcare. I’m a nurse and this is all because healthcare is a business. People like him used to live their whole lives in a mental institution. It’s all about money discharging and admitting people over and over. It’s a revolving door. I was a psych nurse. Now I work in jails and prisons because it’s safer. HEALTH CARE IS A HUMAN RIGHT.
Absolutely. This is it. When we commodify healthcare, this is the result.
😂 he was a schizophrenic.
Society would have to “forcefully medicate” them basically violating their human rights.
We went from the extreme of imprisonment for like for “incurably” different and embarrassing people to refusing them in-patient care. It is a society-wide madness how we treat mentally I’ll people
@@excelself I have friends who are schizophrenic, they can manage their day, though it isn't easy. But they live not in the US where healthcare is a business.
@@dullyvampir83 Then if you can’t understand our laws why are you even commenting on something you don’t know?
Here we can’t FORCIBLY medicate someone it is against the law. The only way is to spend thousands of dollars not from healthcare but the justice system to allow family to even put someone on medication.
Lawyers for Daniel Penny issued a statement which said Penny "could not have foreseen" Neely's "untimely death". That is just false on its face. He's a former Marine Sergeant. That means that he used to be responsible for the proficiency, training and administration of Marines in his charge. Wouldn't that mean that he trained his junior Marines in hand-to-hand combat? How could Penny NOT have foreseen that a 15 minute chokehold would result in the untimely death of the person he was choking? How did he get promoted to Sergeant if he did not know this simple fact?
Why does it matter if he is a marine? You think marines go out and choke out people on a regular basis??
He could have been a cyber marine then he would not have been practicing combat as much as other marines and he certainly wouldn’t lead combat training. That being said if he was unqualified in combat he shouldn’t have tried such a dangerous hold. He would at least know that.
@@threeofeight197 Doesn't matter, this is stuff they teach Marines in basic training and AIT. Literally every Marine is trained in basic hand to hand combat.
@@threeofeight197 nah, all Marines are trained in close combat in boot camp. Even the ones who will sit at computers their entire career.
Good Samaritan law protects him. He was no longer a marine and thus was not certified or up to standards. He was a civilian. If a retired doctor jumps in to save someone and that person dies you can not sue the retired doctor for malpractice. The question is was the response within reason and if the homeless guy was violent then the guy is covered. Given the amount of people holding him down and the lack of care by the people around them its highly likely he was violent.
His mom wasn't just murdered. She was chopped up and put in a suitcase. He had to testify as a witness. He saw his mother in that condition.
Wow. Thank you for bringing this to light as Kyle apparently didn't find it worthy of investigating and/or mentioning.
He saw it! OMG! No wonder he had mental health problems! I was already sad about this whole thing but now this has really got me down.
@@jujutrini8412 People need to be talking about this as well. Not that it'd humanize him to the tfg crowd.
@@Rainonasphalt It's a bit of nuance. It's not meant to excuse behavior. I'm sure you fail to see quite a bit in life.
@@Rainonasphalt when seeing your mom chopped up into pieces then leads to you developing a myriad of mental illnesses (that multiple ppl knew about btw (including the ‘system’ I’m assuming as that’s the only way he’d still be roaming the streets with 42 arrests as a black man)) then it’s not fuckin hard to see the correlation. Are you purposely being this dense or are you just that dumb?
Does it justify or excuse his behavior. No. Like duh, no one is arguing that (and you know that).
Does it explain it? Yes. And the fact that the system failed him so immensely is the reason he’s dead now.
Also let’s say he was being a threat to others, is the sentence for threats the death penalty? Is it your duty as a citizen to extrajudicially murder someone (that is being restrained by MULTIPLE people)? I’ll give you a hint: the answer is no.
There was a point in the video when he appeared to still be alive and someone said "Your goanna catch a murder charge" and he still kept choking him. So yes this was murder
The fact that the justice system cares more about violent black people than innocent white people doesn't mean you let yourself or other innocent people get killed
More like doing a favor for EVERYONE
@@drunkdonkey1009from the hearts of men.
Commenting as a person that has been training in Jujitsu for nearly 50 years, I going to eliminate whatever happened before argument because it's irrelevant. The reason for this is because for whatever reason this marine, who is a trained killer I might add, decided to take action. Once he had Jordan in the rear naked choke hold, he was in full control. He could've released the hold enough for Jordan to breathe and still maintain control of him. Also the fact that other people was assisting in restraining him as well. Now, if this marine said that he did not know he was killing him, he's lying. Every person that is trained to do this technique, Martial artists and the military which this marine he is a part of knows exactly how it feels to have done on them. Because they have to practice on each other, that's why we tap to release the hold.
I refuse to believe that he did not know what he was doing. Having a choke hold full on, for 15 mins there would be no other outcome. So if anyone tries to say it's on non lethal technique, do not know what they're talking about. when you put a choke hold on, you are essentially depriving someone of air. The only possible defence the marine 's got, he may have thought he was putting on a strangle hold on which is slightly different from a choke hold which is applied to the side of the neck and deprives blood to the brain. The average person would know this as a sleeper hold. Even then, 15 mins is still too long!
The victim was hungry and thirsty that is all.
"If you don't have five centuries worth of self defense training, just let the homeless guy shank you on the train"
I condensed what you said down a bit.
@@johnnysupreme5718 or maybe be a fucking human being and offer to buy the dude a burger.
@@johnnysupreme5718 Did you ask your Mommy and Daddy for permission to get internet access? This is way above your understanding and comprehension little boy, this is an adults only conversation.🤷♂
As a fighter it is absolutely insane to be choking someone for 15 minutes bottomline this is murder. Regardless of intent you killed a defenseless mentally ill person he needs to be held accountable.
That what I'm saying, I simply don't believe that anyone with any training would not know that you can't choke someone for more than a minute without causing permanent damage
not 15 minutes
Fuck your qualifiers Tarik. A person was murdered.
Thank you!!! Did he grate on your nerves here with his take or is it just me? I love Kyle and know he can be a little conservative at times compared to other leftists but expected better from him here and am disappointed tbh.
@@getasimbe He didn't care if he killed him at best and wanted to at worst. He's the true danger to society as opposed to the victim who likely just needed care. Kyle's take here kinda sucks.
I was homeless for YEARS and here's the way to treat a homeless person, LIKE THEY ARE A HUMAN BEING. When I was homeless I can't remember any of the "flowery" speeches I was given, but I remember the people who acted like I was part of the human race and not being treated like an animal. Humans are not animals and we treat the homeless and the poor as if they are at fault and America is the most vile thing when it comes to the poor and unhoused the news character assassinated Neely while acting like they didn't know who murdered him. Complaining about being hungry isn't a crime and neither is "threatening" a death sentence. I don't care if he was threatening people because "Just because you deserve to see a judge, you don't deserve to meet your maker."
There is no empathy or mercy anymore in USA.
but how else will I be able to prove my superiority if I don't have unlimited leeway in mistreating those less fortunate than I?
There's homeless people and then there's crazy homeless people
@@Che1seabluesdrogba11 And?
Great. Did you also get arrested 42 times including for KIDNAPPING a 7 year old girl, and punching a 67 year old woman in the face, AND punching a 64 year old man in the face? Just curious
"Jordan Neely has been arrested numerous times and has a reputation for causing disturbances; he once pleaded guilty to attempted kidnapping when he was caught dragging a 7-year-old girl down an Inwood street.
The New York Daily News reported:
Neely was arrested 42 times across the last decade, with his most recent bust in November 2021 for slugging a 67-year-old female stranger in the face as she exited a subway station in the East Village, cops said.
The senior citizen suffered a broken nose and fractured orbital bone when she was knocked to the sidewalk, along with swelling and “substantial” head pain after hitting the ground.
Neely eventually pleaded to felony assault and received 15 months in an alternative-to-incarceration program that, if completed, would have allowed him to plead to misdemeanor assault and get a conditional discharge.
But a warrant was issued for his arrest on Feb. 23, when he skipped a court compliance court date where a judge was to be updated on whether he was meeting all the requirements of the program.
On June 27, 2019, Neely was arrested for punching a 64-year-old man in the face during a fight in a Greenwich Village subway station, cops said.
And he was busted in August 2015 for attempted kidnapping after he was seen dragging a 7-year-old girl down an Inwood street. He pled guilty to endangering the welfare of a child and was sentenced to four months in jail."
Not knowing that strangling someone for 15 mins would result in them dying is the same as drowning someone and being shocked they died.
since the average person can only hold their breath a max of 2 minutes, yeah. he may as well have held a pillow over the guy's face.
Wasn't for 15 minutes and it was a restraint on the spitter who was high as a kite..as usual..and threatening to kill everyone on the train..especially women and children.
@@seewulf2385 really he threatened to kill everyone on the train? Really? A restraint doesn’t end up killing the perpetrator. There was 3 of them if they wanted to it would be pretty easy to restrain a homeless guy. Homeless ppl don’t have super human strength.
@@codbdup88 Absolutely..Little girls should just wait to be dragged down the street screaming by the hopped up lunatic like the last time..and Grandmothers must wait quietly, patiently for the blow that cracks their eye sockets and nose....oh and citizens must stand transfixed until he decides to shove them under a train.. The spitters career is over...killed by alvin bragg and the idiots running New York..the guverness is a player too.. Thanks for your whizdumb..and don't buy the media drivel..They lie.
@@codbdup88 Maybe not super human strength, but certain drugs could give someone super human like resistance to getting knocked out.
As a New Yorker, I can't count how many times I've been on the train when a likely crazy, likely homeless person entered the car and started acting weird, loud, or verbally aggressive.
In each case, the same thing happened. Locals pretended to be asleep or dropped their eyes to their book, phone, etc. while outsiders looked on, gobsmacked. Then the person would head to another car or exit the train. To imagine a timeline where each one of those encounters ended in that person's death instead is unfathomable.
Even when someone's behavior is threatening, it doesn't mean they're a threat. No one should neglect their own safety, obviously. But sometimes, if you're afraid of something escalating, the last thing you should do is escalate it yourself.
So unless Neely was actually putting his hands on someone, I don't condone attacking him despite any verbal threats he allegedly made.
As for Penny, his claim that he didn't intend to kill Neely is meaningless. Even if he weren't a marine with combat training, we've had enough high profile cases in the past few years alone of men dying from being knelt on or choked.
There should be no functioning adult left in this country who doesn't understand that unless you WANT to kill someone, you probably shouldn't squeeze their throat for 15 minutes.
Worse than meaningless, it's suspect, because he IS a trained marine who I imagine is well aware of the consequences of a chokehold and how long it takes to do real harm. Moreover, others were helping. You're telling me three men, including a former marine, are incapable of holding a skinny homeless man down without one of them strangling him? And for 15 minutes?
For anyone who thinks that's reasonable, do me a favor. Sit there and stare at a clock for 15 minutes. Now imagine having someone in a chokehold for that long. That's not a reckless oopsie in the moment that just happened so fast. That was a choice.
And that's not even addressing the claim that witnesses told him to let Neely go because he was going to kill him, citing that Neely defecated himself and was passing out. Surely, someone who "didn't mean" to kill Neely would've stopped choking him when people said "stop or he'll die".
So at the moment, at best, I see Penny as no better than a cop who used excessive force on someone who stole an onion. Sure, that person should've been dealt with but not like that.
At worst, I see Penny as yet another white dude who doesn't value black life (or homeless life or mentally unstable life) enough to have treated Neely like a human being who needs a timeout rather than an animal you have to put down.
As for knowing the facts, the only facts that matter are the ones relevant to the question at hand, and the question here isn't why Neely was behaving erratically. It's whether or not Penny was justified in the actions he took that led to Neely's death.
That question can't be answered with facts Penny had no knowledge of because things you don't know can't influence your behavior. Neely's criminal record, mental illness, strained relationships, grief. If Penny wasn't aware, it's moot.
The only people served by having information he DIDN'T are those who seek to devalue his victim after the fact, which is par for the course. So the folks you think are crazy for saying it isn't necessary to dig into Neely's past in that way are correct.
Yeah, me too - I've seen so many crazy homeless people on the subway and 99.9% of the time there's no confrontation - just ignore them - if you're nervous you can get off the train at the next stop - and that train obviously wasn't running more than 15 minutes straight without stopping - if Neely was such a threat, Penny and the other guys could have restrained him and forced him off the train at the next stop and then could have taken him to the NYPD who are roaming the subways
Neely didn’t fall through the cracks of the system, he is an example of the system. Of what it does to people like him. It’s really sad.
💯
His trauma is worse than the system
A marine should know that choking someone would kill them🤔🤔🤦🏾♀️ If he didn't know, a witness told him what would happen if he kept choking him.
when you have 20+ witnesses, literally in the police report, saying that this person was endangering public safety and needed to be restrained, and on top of that you have three grown men who independently took it upon themselves to restrain this guy. He was obviously doing more than begging for food on the train. to the point where the DA personally brought charges when the responding officers didn't. Obviously means there's more to the story. Kyle is the worst at providing context. He is a grifter. Krystal needs to leave him
@@joshafflu1 ahahhaahah your so petty and funny buddy. the 20+ wittneses said he touched nobody, hurt nobody. just words bro. words dont mean kill.
The choke he used was one that they teach you in boot camp. It's called a "Rear-Naked Choke" and it's supposed to be a very non-lethal blood choke as opposed to a very lethal air choke.
@@bisurker well that failed. Clearly.
@@EasyWinking Josh wants to kill a person so bad. Probably his secret fetish.
You're insane if you want to live in a world where anyone can be judge, jury and executioner.
Bingo ✔️
What a stupid comment... You dont need a judge to be able to defend yourself
What country do you think this is? Have you been asleep for the past two hundred years?
@@euroyankee2003 Therefore people aren't insane for wanting the wild west back? I don't think that adds up...
Self-defence 🙄
If our health care system was worth a damn. This might not have happened.
@@KennedyIvy spend more and save lives? Yes good tradeoff, you freak
Don't forget our social services system. If this man had a home this likely would not have happened.
Yes, money will solve all the problems.
Too bad NYC prefers to spend the money on doing BLM murals
@@KennedyIvy what a calloused and immature perspective. If we had affordable health care services like the rest of the world maybe we wouldn't have these issues constantly. But instead of thinking about that let's dehumanize homeless people.
Unfortunately schizophrenic people can be violent in unpredictable ways, the fact we just ditched In patient living facilities all together is a crazy as the people who needed them.. I can understand if he was threatening that people restrained him, but defending choking the clearly mentally ill man for that long… Penny is a marine too, he knew exactly what he was doing. Manslaughter is lenient in my opinion.
Why are none of you able to explain how he was still struggling at the 14 minute mark if he's been choked for that long, while also saying that no one can survive a trained chokehold for longer than a few seconds?
At what point do you realize the mental disconnect there?
@@Chevalier1632 i didnt say or claim anything you just said… i wasnt there, but the police have all he evidence and charged Penny so…
@@fintan9218 You are repeating the same lines of "he choked him for that long". Don't play semantics. You know good and well you're referring to the same 15 minute line being parrotted all over the comment section.
@@Chevalier1632 i was referring to him choking the guy to death… again the police have all the evidence(which you and i dont) and they charged Penny with manslaughter.
My reference had to do with the fact Penny is a Marine, extremely well trained, so able to know if he was cutting off oxygen/killing him.
@@fintan9218 You're basing it off of "choking him for that long when he knew what he was doing" when you can literally see him struggling several minutes in at different times, which is literally not possible if he was being choked out for a full 15 minutes.
They charged him because a man died and an investigation has to be made, but that hasn't stopped all of you from saying that automatically means they think he's guilty from that. You already made your own determination despite saying we don't have the evidence, so it's not like I'm over here just making things up and jumping to conclusions.
I'm using your own words and your backing off while saying I'm fabricating.
20 years into BJJ. Don't have all the info but know for sure that it's possible to properly control a person with a rear naked choke without choking them out and certainly without killing them. So again, without having all the infos about the circumstance of this particular situation ending up killing Mr. Neely seems somewhat excessive to me.
100% true. That's why those that support this guy either aren't martial artist or they don't care that he killed him on purpose.
@@ossem1 Or like the OP said, you don't know all the info here.
Well, it is all narrative at this point.
I also do BJJ and agree. To kill him he would've had to have had the choke in very tight, and you can tell when someone is struggling to breathe. The other people were also holding his hands which made him completely vulnerable to whatever pressure of choke the guy decided to do. I think manslaughter is probably the way to go.
@@talyahr3302 I agree except it should be murder. The guy was a marine and he knew that slapping a choke like that on someone for 15 minutes would kill him. He’s a murderer. He needs to be locked up
Why is no one asking why did Penny got discharge at such a young age. Bringing up neelys prior should trigger the same for the penny
This is dumb, enlistments are four years. You are dumb for saying this
My dude bein discharged at a young age can just be puffin a joint dude or snortin a lil coke, its never somethin serious. If he was court martial its serious and normal discharge is not
He got out in 21 so he couldve jumped out with the antivax group
Restraining him was justified, choking him for 15 minutes was excessive and reckless and not justified
The Conservative Twins, who I don't agree with most of the time, actuslly had a good take on this. It went from being self defense to criminal when he chose to keep the hold on him after he stopped moving and making noise.
Yeah it's really that simple anyone who thinks killing him is justified is racist or a fascist
Restrained for what? Public nuisance?
If dude was a marine he knew that would kill him
From what I know we have two versions, once version said he choked him for 15 minutes and the other version said 3 minutes, and was the police who took 15 minutes to arrive at the scene.
Can the United States start taking mental health seriously now? No? Oh, okay...
Greg Abbott continuously says assault weapons are not causing mass shootings, it's mental health issues as he continuously cuts mental health services in Texas.
He was institutionalized multiple times but refused treatment.
Bruh, everyone here is on speed and SSRIs. I think "mental health" is taken way too seriously.
@@fierypanther75 Being institutionalized in the U.S. has nothing to do with being provided adequate mental healthcare.
@@waltergrace565 Mass provisions of medications do not equate to adequate mental healthcare.
As a father of 3 boys with AUTISM, this is my worst nightmare, this poor man is desperate for help and just trying to stay alive. He is responsible for his own survival for the first time in his life and doesn't know what to do. My heart is broken for this poor man, his Mom was his whole life and he can't comprehend what happened.
He was a dangerous schizophrenic who mercilessly multiple times attack random woman and once brake a woman nose and skull.
Mine too. I have an autistic brother and this would terrify me if thus happened to him.
@@frankparise583 Thank goodness your brother has you as a backup plan, this situation requires a family group effort for long term care and Jordan's left over family failed him.
No one gets a pass to wander around threatening people with impunity.
@@mikesilver2283 I’d tell you to stop lying, but it’s in a fascist’s nature to lie…
Marine combat veteran here. All Marines know that holding a choke for 15 minutes means death. He wanted to kill him.
Thank you for acknowledging that.
He didn't actually choke him for 15 minutes, ffs. That's not what happened.
That comes from ONE spanish speaking witness, who *guessed* that Neely had been *held* for 15 minutes.
Then, all of these idiots started reporting that Neely was choked for 15 minutes. That's false. Literally "fake news".
You should be embarrassed to not only have believed fake news.... but that you're actively spreading it.
Absolute morons.
Every single one of you.
Why would he want to kill him? Whats the motive there?
Its much more likely he wanted the guy to stop moving and be unconscious and stop causing the other people to be in fear of what could be a knife attack. He only fucked up by not releasing right away, I'm sure he was scared too and was panicking.
@@ToasterBrain There areany reasons to kill. To feel simply better than is my guess. That righteousness seen in both religion, politics, philosophy, and simply over every day life. I always assume the number of "good" people in the world (those not infected by fear and ignorance) is the same amount of people helping Jews in Nazi Germany. Bad ideas sweep over the land constantly and it easy for the asleep to fall prey to the "shadows" (google it, Carl Jung) of our subconscious. As for the so called mistake.....There are ZERO Marines that do not know a 15 minutes rear naked blood choke means death. This, evil of fear, ignorance, and pride must have infected him. Wanna know how and why people justify hurting others? Go watch Joker and look at the "well to do" young wallst guys on the subway, then look again at my fellow Marine here. Too dark to handle? Then know you have darkness in your own heart and it is okay bc we all do. New tomorrows must come from the black infinite chaos but must use order to only birth the good shit, but life isn't possible without the bad shit, thus we will always have dark inside us. But the actions we choose within that is what defines us, not our shitty thoughts and subconscious murderous whims. My simple take hehe.
Marine combat veteran here, too. Every Marine knows there's a difference between an actual choke and a restraint not letting the dude loose.
Every Marine also knows if Penny wanted to kill Neely, he could've done it in a lot less time.
There is now way that you don't know choking someone for 15 minutes will kill them....
Taking him down if you think he's a threat is one thing, but there is zero excuse for holding this man in a chokehold for 15 minutes.
That mans history had nothing to do with him being choked. No one knew his health, mental, childhood or criminal history at the time of the murder.
Why do you need to?
@@bobbun4369 we don't.
@@bobbun4369 did you read the first sentence in my comment?
He wasn't murdered though.
@@waltergrace565Yeah he was just gently sent to the afterlife 🤡
As someone who is autistic, I know that some people perceive 'weird' as threatening. I wasn't there, and if he was actually being offensive and aggressive it makes sense to restrain him. His backstory wasn't the fault of the people on that train, but so many are guilty of the little things that create such situations.
Btw, there's no "Autism medication". His father not knowing that is exactly an example of the kind of little thing I just mentioned.
THANK YOU.
It upset me to hear " autism medication " because there is no such thing.
His dad didn't have the compassion needed in his situation...as evidenced by speaking without really knowing.
@@IResonateWithU I can’t imagine what kind of meds he meant. Maybe he just wanted him sedated. SMH. That’s usually what is meant when ppl say that kind of thing.
@Three Of Eight exactly. Antidepressants probably, which are a bear to go through and find the ones you can actually live with. Imagine needing meds that require you take with food or water and what decides it is charitable people around you that day. That would be worse than being on none!! Only people who know KNOW.
He was not threatening anyone. He was hungry and thirsty. He was unarmed. it was not necessary to restrain him in any way. Toxic masculinity played a part in his murder.
Thank you so much for posting this comment. I'm also autistic (albeit late diagnosed due to a combination of issues with school system that evaluated me and the doctors involved).
The environment can become disabling. It feels like a clear issue regarding the difference between the medical model of disability versus the social model.
I was medicated growing up and did not feel like it assisted me at all because I was treated as ADHD. A misdiagnosis due to the inaccuracies in the information submitted to medical professionals. I also found out last year that I am dyspraxic... dyspraxia+autism traits present shockingly close to ADHD traits.
I wonder if people would feel the same way if the guy took out a gun and shot him instead of choking him to death. Murder is murder
But it’s not the same. His intent was to restrain not to shoot. He was still struggling 13 minutes in. The marine was letting up on the hold in between so he never fully blacked out until the end.
Twice in my adult life have i been under physical attack. Both times i ended up with the upper hand and could have seriously injured or even killed the other person if i wanted to. They were at my mercy. Both times the attacker walked away with only minor injuries because it wasn't necessary for me to stomp them into the dirt or attempt to take their life and i wouldn't want to anyway.
Here's the real take. Some people walking around in society are savages (not the good kind) and given the opportunity to be a savage they will do it. I'm speaking about the retired marine.
I obviously don't know this guy but i do know Marines of all branches in the military are most heavily trained for deadly combat. I already don't trust relatively young people to have excellent decision making in high stress real world situations. A person in their early 20s doesn't have a fully developed brain (no offense, its science and we've all been there) and throw some "shoot first ask second" training on top of it and it's a bad situation. I think this guy was way too eager to dish out deadly force and im not surprised.
Criminal record doesn't factor into it. The people on the train have no idea what his arrest record is.
Really? Obviously this guy is dangerous.
@@1ronin907 Yes, really. You can't justify an act you committed with information you found out after you committed said act. That's not how things work.
@@mgerdes0331you making alot of assumptions here...
@@bobbun4369 like? That people on a public train don't know the arrest records of other people on a public train? Shockingly, that's an incredibly accurate assumption
@@mgerdes0331xcpet that hobo was well known... Kinda why you can find redit threads about him ...
Lmao they cant have known who he is while at the same time claiming he was a known mj impersonator.... You leftists have zero consistency
In any beginner Jiu-Jitsu class on DAY ONE, you learn to release someone if they go limp when you're choking them. Choking someone for 15 minutes straight is just flat out, plain ol' murder.
Only he didn't choke him for 15 minutes, it was 90 seconds. Just like Kyle Rittenhouse didn't kill any black people (even though that lie is still being told). Stop being a puppet of state narratives.
Lol it wasn't 15 minutes
You guys have to lie to even get a basic point across
@@johnnysupreme5718 Yeah, this is insane. They always work together to spread these idiotic lies, and then never own up to it when they're proven wrong.
They just move on to the next lie.
"I support the current thing".
It's embarrassing to even exist in tandem with these mentally deficient, selfricheous, lying, clowns.
Why couldn’t this psycho just restrain the victim by holding his shoulders, his arms, or his head? Why would he even consider restricting his breathing by squeezing the neck? Even a child would be aware that constricting a person’s airway results in death. Was the killer mentally disabled? I don’t understand how this could ever happen …
This kind of choke when properly applied actually restricts blood flow to the brain, not airways. But your point is still valid. No need to apply the choke for that long a time. Situation got out of control
Should never have used a chokehold unless the guy was actively fighting, and if so should have let go the instant he fell unconscious.
White supremacy.
He wouldn't stay still.
That’s the thing. Choking wasn’t the only option. It’s all on Penny.
I saw your typical nyc subway panhandler. There was nothing violent or threatening about that! And Kyle, stop playing to the middle…this was a cold blooded lynching of a vulnerable person!
If someone does the menacing threatening stare at you:
1. Don't look away but also don't stare back. Just let the person know you do see him but don't do so in a confrontational manner. But don't ignore them.
2. Increase your self-awareness of the situation, and watch for a possible sucker punch, and begin to plan your options.
3. Start backing away, and try to exit the situation without violence. Do not take your eye of the person who is staring at you threatwise.
"Don't look away but also don't stare back. Just let the person know you do see him but don't do so in a confrontational manner. But don't ignore them.... Do not take your eye off the person who is staring at you threatwise."
How do you continue looking at them without staring? Do you mean look at them but not in their eyes? Or look in the general direction of them but not directly at them?
@@Ethan-fh9lq Use your peripheral vision.
This is a big part of the deescalation training I received working in behavioral health. Thank you for saying this. If more people knew it we would probably have a lot less needless death.
@@Ethan-fh9lq you keep them in your line of sight but never lock eyes. It triggers a fight or flight response.
Here's my take:
Restrain for 5 minutes = OK
Restrain for 10 minutes or more = HATE
Chokeholds are illegal for this reason. Neely said he is hungry and thirsty! If so he is week and fatigued. No need for a UFC takedown or chokehold. If I was hungry as can be I would have a headache and have no ability to put up a fight. Those are context clues to help understand he is not asking for a fight. He is not in need of a ufc take down. Giving a full forced chokehold is negligent and reckless.
I don’t think the average person could last 30 seconds in a good chokehold without going to sleep.
It's often positional asphyxia that cause death when people are restrained for long periods of time. The person can be breathing and talking and still die just from the position straining the system. Heart failure is common. If you don't know what positional asphyxia is then you have no business restraining anyone ever. If you hand cuff someone and leave them lieing face down they can die from PA in 15 minutes even though they are breathing and can talk. Try it some time get someone to tie your hand behind your back and roll you face down on the floor and not let you roll onto your side or stand up and set the timer for 5 minutes and if you still feel fine give it 5 more minutes even if your in good shape you'll be in serious trouble after 15 after 30 minutes. Then try it again with someone on top of you squeezing you are pining you face down and try that for 3 minutes it is like water boarding without the water!
Trying to get In the way of someone that hasn't attacked anyone or made a move towards attacking someone is wild. You're puttin your life at risk
Actually he has attacked someone including an elderly women in which he broke her nose.
@1ronin except he didn't. Why are you out here lying?
@@christaylor9095 Then why was he arrested 44 times? For funsies?
@@gbgbgbgb1 o. My bad. He was in trouble previously, so even though he didn't really do anything this time, let's kill him. Does it hurt being that much of an ahole or are you completely oblivious to it?
@@gbgbgbgb1 so you can predict the future lol and you can look at someone and see their arrest record...that's a marketable skill my boy
I am Autistic, have CPTSD, religious trauma, bipolar I, ADHD and severe general anxiety. Few people care about the mentally ill but you have to understand we know there is no hell because the mentally ill can see the hell we all live in better than anyone. I just wish people could see and feel the horrors we deal with than judge us. My heart goes out to this poor soul. An autistic brother done evil by a system that would rather pretend we don't exist yet exploit our gifts and compassion.
Im also bipolar with adhd and honestly i desagree. He was threatening to kill people
@@MesserMusic That is not true
@eric some people are racist and won't care cause he black .
Jordan Neely repeatedly commited violence against the elderly, attemtped to kidnap a 7 year old girl... among his many documented violent crimes.
Jordan Neely got what he had coming.
The world is better without him.
@@yourmother2739 According to witnesses, it's true. Neely did make violent threats.
We just don't see THAT part, in the limited footage available.
Neely was trying to kill people....he kidnapped a Child, beat an elderly woman and was trying to shove people in front of moving trains!!! Neely kidnapped a 7 year old black girl and beat an elderly woman cracking her skull but these are the type of people democrats support. 2 days before the incident Neeley tried to push someone in front of the train but they were able to fight him off and made a police report it is on the subway video feed but Neeley was never caught by the police....a friend of my family knows a detective with NYPD who said there are many assaults Neeley committed many of them women. Alvin Bragg has access to this video of Neeley attacking people on the subway but ignored it. I fear there are no fair trials happing in NYC the judicial system is corrupt!
That don't matter. A white guy 'killed' a poor oppressed black guy. Public outrage sealed this marine's fate. He shouldn't even be charged. Now, he goes to jail or city will burn. Jurors will fear for their lives and lives of their family. This country is a cesspool. We're defending a fkn another fn menace who will possibly get murals and statues built? Wow. Honk honk.
Anyone who takes public transportation regularly is completely familiar with mentally ill people and people behaving erratically for whatever reason. Normal people of good judgment ignore them without making eye contact, or they walk away and perhaps notify the transit police. They do not attack and kill them.
Why not demand that the city help them get social services and decent shelter?
@@yourmother2739 i agree mom, however I believe it needs to be something done federally. As when some wealthy states or cities do great programs it ends up causing homeless people to travel there to get benefits. Which can basically make the problem worse and sadly get people angry at homeless. This is unfortunately something that needs a major federal program.
"a normal man would just ignore the guy and let him shank him to death"
Yelling “IM NOT AFRAID TO GO TO JAIL” in public still isn’t a threat.
Wah you just watched video of a homeless man with schizophrenia talking to himself but make crap up or whatever you evil ghoul.😑
I'm from DC, lived in Baltimore and been to NY. Looks like regular big city activity to me. Move to the next train car and keep your hands to yourself 🤷🏾♀️
That’s bc it is .
It doesn’t particularly matter to me if Neely was a criminal or was casted away by society or etc, nobody deserves to be killed unless they’re committing or have committed a crime that took or had the potential to take someone’s life.
And thats what happened.. Are you supposed to wait for the hobo to kill a person before stepping in?
@@bobbun4369 That never happened proud boy.
@@bobbun4369 there’s been zero such evidence presented so far. I assume you’re a detective on the case? 😂
Someone sitting somewhere not bring a threat doesn’t deserve to die. When that person starts making threats they become a threat, plain and simple. It is sad that people have mental health issues, but it is always going to be me and my loved ones over anyone. I wasn’t on the train so I will never truly know how much of a threat he actually was, but the fact that two other men were helping Penny restrain him gives me what I need to know.
@@TheLastLineLive every bit of information we have on this situation is in favor of Neely threatening people
Literally nothing makes sense if Penny just walked up and choked the guy out
This event the culmination of so many issues in our society and has really made me emotional to even think about since it happened.
-healthcare
-housing
-racism (you cannot convince me this situation would have been the same had the races been reversed)
-“vigilantism” being praised by people on the right (Chauvin, Zimmerman, etc)
-contempt/disdain for the homeless and/or “criminals”
Jordan did not have a gun to anyone’s head, and had not TOUCHED or threatened physical violence on anyone on that train and this guy not only restrained him, but KNOWINGLY killed him. A random stranger.
There is no “self defense” argument here as the marine initiated the physical violence. People ranting about Jordan’s criminal history, meanwhile the person that just MURDERED someone is being applauded as a hero.
Is the punishment for scaring or making someone uneasy death now?
In my opinion, the marine has extreme contempt for the homeless and saw an opportunity to stick it to one of them, and then his rage got the better of him. I don’t see how any other reasoning would align with his actions. He was not “saving” or “helping” anyone.
Reversed?! Hell, this wouldn't have happened if it was honey-on-honkey. No whyte guy is going to kill a random whyte unhoused person in public and think he's going to get away with it. You ONLY do that with those you don't respect the life of.
Honkeys have *been* *done* gone too far; they have fucked around, and it's high time we made them find out!
We Black Folk.
You're probably part of the problem, Hannah.
Your neanderthal genes determine you are the problem.
Lol, you are simply incorrect. No matter what race the person is, this would have happened. Because decent, moral people understand that this kind of behavior is NEVER okay. Neely had a history of violent behavior, but your beloved leftist prosecutors did NOTHING except let him go on and continue acting violently instead of helping him get help. Also, is Daniel Penny supposed to wait until Neely hurts/kills someone to take action? No. If it were you, would you want someone to step in and help? Would you want someone to get Neely away from you? Or are you telling me you would be totally fine with this. None of this means he deserved to die, but Penny certainly acted rationally here.
But you know what, let’s continue down the path you want the world to go. I can’t wait until you realize you and your side has been wrong the whole time. All of this will come crashing down because man are these cities going to shit.
@@andrewharrill9960 honest question:
What was your 1st reaction when you learned the homeless man was black.
If you scoured the net looking for his criminal record then that explains a good deal.
Did the dead man have a criminal history and a history of assaulting people?
*Yes*
Did Danny know this going into the situation?
*No*
Was your reaction to someone who should be *arrested* but is now dead.
*”he got what he deserved”*
*Yes*
So basically you are advocating for vigilantism regardless of the severity of the crime.
No one is blaming the man for subduing the now deceased man. What we ARE advocating is this went too far and it has become all too common.
The Rantings of a mentally ill man scaring people on the train is *NOT* a good justification for killing him. No amount of being fed up with dealing with people making your day less peaceful will change that.
Should I unalive every Trump voter when they inconvenience me with name calling and bigoted remarks and actual threats to my life? I mean by your logic I would be within my right if they have a criminal record…right?
And celebrating any person’s death and causally dismissing it as a good thing in this particular case is a sign of an alarming growing trend in the US.
Glad I’m leaving because,honestly, F’ck this country. You people are batshit crazy.
@@andrewharrill9960 It's not only that your bullshit lies about Mr. Neely's past history are the type of garbage reasoning that assholes use to justify violence, but YES, dipshit, he does actually have to make an attempt at harming someone before harm comes to him.
Ya see, the reasoning is in this little document that you neanderthal descendants always like to bring up, and it says that you are INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY.
But really.... I missed it... what, exactly, was it that you claimed warranted Mr. Neely's death again?
My take: I think he just became frustrated and annoyed with Neely's schizophrenic ramblings and decided to take his aggression out on him.
Which still makes him a murder.
"Your honor, he was annoying me, so I had to choke them to death."
@@banonKING think they were not trying to excuse it, but explain possible motive. Implying it was intentional.
your take implies you know nothing about what happened
@@banonKING I agree.
How did no one even try to stop this? No one needs to be choked out for 15 minutes, that's an obvious death sentence for anyone.
Reports I saw said. There was video where people DID tell them to ease up if they didn't want a murder charge.
The fact that he was a marine makes it worse. He was trained and knew what a choke hold could do.
Our society has to change and have proper housing for the mentally ill.
i mean, that, and just don't choke people to death for no reason. pro tip s
@@cl8804 Well, the guy who choked him to death is the one who needed mental health care to begin with, being an insane murderer and all.
Well there's a another problem because he was given a chance for proper treatment and housing. He had received treatment in the past. But just as his Father said he refused to take his medication he also refused to go into treatment. So I mean short of involuntary commitment against his wil what more could have been done?
Cool, also how about LETS NOT MURDER PEOPLE. Fuck off John
You closed them down cause you didnt lile them
Maybe an average person with no experience in restraining someone, and who somehow didn't notice the guy falling unconscious, could be let off with a lower manslaughter charge. The ex marine, however, should know exactly what the effect of a chokehold is - that's why he appointed himself a vigilante and choked him instead of, you know, just restraining him until the police could get involved. In light of that, I can't fathom why he's being charged with less than _first_ degree manslaughter, and he should at least be investigated as a murder suspect. It's pretty incredible to maintain a chokehold on a corpse, having gone through relevant training, and never once thinking "hmm, I wonder if this guy who hasn't moved for ten minutes is getting enough oxygen".
The fact the NYPD initially let him go without charging him AT ALL? That's fucking terrifying.
"The fact the NYPD initially let him go without charging him AT ALL? That's fucking terrifying"
That's why they're hiding the footage so much; the judge saw the entire situation unfold and it clearly shows Neely threatening people before being restrained. It also shows Penny putting Neely into a recovery position after he passes out.
The NYPD actually spent more than five seconds learning about the situation instead of doing what your local assmad liberal did and just assuming a white guy defending himself from a black guy is a genocidal lunatic KKK leader.
He's a white male marine who killed a black man. If it hadn't become a story, he wouldn't be getting charged at all.
Someone did say let him go. You can hear it if you played it with the sound and let it play longer
Actually, the white man standing awkwardly did indeed attempt to STOP Penny. There's a video out yesterday that shows him putting his hold down, in a "Stop" ✋position and one of the other guys holding Neeley's arms, told him to back off.
Several others can be heard saying, "You're killing him."
The white man suggested turning him into his side, and was told to back off.
And this Penny pertain is a trained killer. He's also been trained what happens when you choke hold someone for 15 minutes. The military teaches people how to know when someone is dead/dying. And common sense should tell someone that's got "dead weight" on them...they're likely dead.
That Marine had NO right to put his hands on that man. It's just another disgusting statement about how deadly it is to live in America.
The whole world watches stories such as these. And the whole world thinks America is dangerous, deadly dangerous. 8f not by a rando worth an AR, it's murder-by-cop, and if not that, it's a former Marine worth an ego problem that's been taught how to kill with no regret.
#fuckinggross
_Words are hurtful; but violence is deadly, Justice for Jordan Neely, RIP._
This is what this man was subdued and died for? If there is nothing more, then the subsuer that killed him belongs in jail. The world sat by and watched George Floyd be choked to death in real time, and most of us wished that we could have intervened and stopped it. Did any of these people learn from that incident? Oh, how quickly we forget as a species, and this is why if we either forget or don't learn from our history, we are doomed to repeat it.PEACE!!
He needs to be held accountable plain and simple........as a fellow combat vet. I can tell you this guy knew better.
The way he stared down at neely while he choked the life out of him was disturbing. As if he couldn't have restrained him. He made the decision to use lethal force every second after neely lost consciousness.
I'm pretty sure he held Nealy very accountable
Why isn't anyone pointing out the possibility that D Penning is probably a white supremacist, considering how he turned himself in wearing those white shoe strings with sneakers and a casual suit? White shoe strings is a white supremacist dress code.
I’m not saying Neely should have been killed but as someone living in a major city, regular people are getting tired of being screamed at and attacked by mentally unstable homeless people on an everyday basis.
@josh ur a coward and marine a coward now hopefully he will be with the general population in jail coward.
There’s no other way around it, society failed him. This is absolutely devastating. Honestly look at this from the most natural perspective, here’s a damaged human being and no one helped. I still can’t believe just how easy you can kill someone and they dont care because he’s homeless. Wow. Stay safe out there brothers and sisters.
Yes, absolutely devastating. Totally agree.
You can't believe that? You and everyone you know, including me, ignore the homeless, the mentally ill, the poor and through our inaction allow their deaths.
If I seem angry it's because I have been homeless and I KNOW what you're unwilling to admit, THIS COUNTRY *HATES* THE POOR.
THE DAMAGED PERSON HERE WAS THE ONE THAT MURDERED ANOTHER PERSON ON A TRAIN wtf is happening
People have tried to help him, he just wouldn’t open up and stayed quiet letting it fester inside he wouldn’t take medication and his decisions caught up to him. I feel bad for the guy but when you refuse to take help seriously it’s going to be bad for the individual. I myself was going through a ruff time seeing my father get taken away from me because the system wasn’t helping him. I saw that my health was rapidly deteriorating but I swallowed my pride and got help. I knew my father wouldn’t want my potential get wasted and fester over something that’s inevitable death.
@@alex4863 He almost certainly had trouble communicating in an open way that society would expect because of his autism. And, with PTSD and depression plus grief and the trauma of loss, on top of an exacerbated pronouncement of schizophrenia and again autism, which characteristically hinders social connections he needed someone to reach to him, toward him. I understand that he was an adult. But, he had problems that he did not have the ability to manage on his own. He was not able to overcome them. They overcame him. So, yes he was an adult. But he needed more help. It is a difficult situation. But, we as a society should be ashamed of ourselves that we do not offer more help to people in need. So, now he's dead. No one needs to try and help him anymore. One more person failed by supposedly the richest and greatest country in the world.
We need to define choke holds lasting more than 2 min as an attempt at murder in the first degree. I mean ANY choke hold lasting more than 2 minutes when executed by ANYONE no matter their background or job.
Floyd: "You can't put your weight on a person if they're trying to kill you"
Rittenhouse: "You can't shoot someone trying to kill you"
Penny: "You can't restrain someone trying to kill you"
why not just make self defense illegal and be done with it? It really seems like the narrative you're all pushing.
Theres different types of choke holds. Theres a blood choke and an air choke. An air choke is when you block the air way so that the person suffocates. A blood choke is when you stop blood flow on the arteries. A well placed blood choke will make someone black out in around 8 seconds. Every second after the choke is applied death and permanent injury is higher. So this marine had no idea what he was doing or he lost control. No way would I ever hold a well placed choke longer than 8 seconds.
He knew exactly what he was doing. He wanted to murder someone. Period.
Yeah, clearly there's a part of the video where Penny takes out a huge encyclopedia of rest holds and does three hours worth of research before he restrains Neely
@johnnysupreme5718 this is common knowledge to anyone that had any kind of grappling training. Whitebelts know this.
@@GS-kj5pc Do whitebelts know that a common side effect of threatening/assaulting people has a common side effect of getting your ass kicked at best and killed at worst?
It’s really annoying when people defend Daniel Penny by basically saying he did the public a favor by killing Jordan Neely.
This incident goes to show how the extremists have taken over the country.
We have manslaughter charges for a reason. There’s nothing political about him being charged with an appropriate charge. If there is a longer video demonstrating that Neely threatened people with bodily harm and used a level of intimidation that indicated his willingness and intent to hurt someone such as acting out or motioning to hit someone - I’m willing to defend Penny’s use of force.
I’m sure the defense would argue a reasonable person would have no idea if Neely would’ve continued to be aggressive if Penny had let them go.
Indeed, the situation will hinge on whether or not the force used would’ve been a reasonable course of action others would’ve taken. And with a chokehold: It is essentially a roll the dice simply because you don’t know a person’s medical history, if they’ve used alcohol and/or drugs, or if they are going into shock, seizure, or some of other medical complication is presenting. It’s why even knocking someone out cold can result in a manslaughter charge.
It’s likely a prosecutor will make the argument that it’s unreasonable considering many police departments banned chokeholds citing what occurred to George Floyd. It’s a guessing game for the reasons so mentioned before, and you can’t accurately judge how long a person is deprived of oxygen. I imagine prosecutors will say that 15 minutes is excessive no matter the circumstances. Also due to the fact three people confronted Neely and it was reckless to put him a chokehold - I could see a guilty verdict and on the single second-degree manslaughter charge. And if there are other mitigating circumstances in favor of Penny such as eye witness testimony - he could be looking at 2-5 years.
In the end, the political points that politicians are trying to win annoys me to no end especially since they do not want to offer any solutions aside from towing the line of basically making it okay to kill people if they get out of line or forget their place in the world.
They are loud but not the majority.
He was just standing there? I never thought the choke was warranted, but i assumed he was going more wild than that.
Well, we’re obviously missing the footage of what happened between this new video & the video of him being choked out. Anything could have happened.
@@oxkit0katxo413 And also nothing could have happened. Witnesses from day 01 said "he wasn't hurting anyone or doing anything to warrent being in a chokehold"... so please stop with the ridiculous "Anything could have happened" because you don't want to believe that a psycho didn't mind choking to death a poor homeless black male in Amerikkka.
@@oxkit0katxo413 If someone is taking a video while Neely is just talking, they would definitely be taking a video if he got violent. No one there has claimed Neely was violent.
@@ivandafoe5451 Were there any reports of Neely being physically violent? No, none that I’ve heard of anyways. But there WERE witnesses who said he was aggressively threatening other passengers including Penny. One witness said he made death threats against other passengers.
And there IS video footage of the entire thing. As Kyle said, the police have it but haven’t released it to the press yet.
Dear god I wish someone could have given him some money for food. This is tragic it could have been prevented. The restraint was severe and he passed away.
Yea you give him that money. See if he buys food with it.
Churches provode food. For free. But you arent ready to accept that.
@Rob then buy him a burger yourself, not that hard really, but then its obvious you wouldn't lift a finger to help a starving person.
@@benjaminhenderson5025 I'd buy them food if they came with. All for helping the homeless. Just against giving them cash. That will hurt them.
@@rob9368 i very much doubt you would ever offer.
Here's the thing. A chokehold can knock someone out in only SECONDS, not even minutes. A good chokehold only takes about 30 secs to incapacitate someone. You are basically being deprived of oxygen. Being deprived of oxygen for more than a few minutes (like 3-4+ minutes is enough to cause brain damage. 6+ minutes is enough to cause severe brain damage or even death. You'd be lucky to survive without serious brain injury after 5-6 minutes without oxygen. Since this man was a former member of the military, I think it's safe to assume that he might have had training on that.
It's clearly murder, regardless of intent. I can be convinced that he was trying to defend himself or people on the train. That's fine. But to hold a chokehold on someone for that long is simply murder. Scientifically, that move was deadly. The dude would've been incapacitated within a few minutes and therefore wasn't a threat anymore. Your right to self defense ends once the other person is incapacitated. Any use of force after that is a crime.
A bunch of nonsensical assumptions about a situation that don't matter in the slightest. Penny put him in the hold, restrained him, then put him in a recovery position so he wouldn't die.
The fact that you claim it's murder, which requires premeditation, also shows that the people pretending Penny is guilty of anything don't have a clear understanding of what actually happened and are working entirely off of emotion instead of the evidence and footage we already have.
@@johnnysupreme5718
1. Murder is the unjustified killing of another person. That's the general definition. Legally speaking, premeditated murder is typically considered 1st degree murder. So I do not know why you're saying "murder" requires premeditation. That's not true. 2nd degree murder is typically defined as unjustly killing another person without premeditation.
2. Interesting how he was put into this "recovery" position clearly after the guy was likely dead
Idk about you, but if I'm put in a chokehold, I'm going to be moving my arms trying to free myself from the hold, which you could see Neely doing. The dude was trying to fucking breath. Once he was unconscious and unresponsive is when they finally let him go. But at that point it was too late. The dude was deprived of oxygen and died. The death according to the coroner was ruled a homicide due to "compression of the next." So the cause of death was that the dude couldn't breath while in the chokehold. He didn't die from complications later. The cause of death was the chokehold.
Again, you have the right to defend yourself, but your force must be proportional. A chokehold is a deadly move. It should NOT be applied for several minutes as, again, that can cause brain damage or death. The force used wasn't proportional. There was no justification for being put in that hold for that long.
@@PrinceVigilanteX 1. It's the definition of murder that it's premediated. You can google it and see this, I don't know what to tell you. Manslaughter is the actual term for what you describe as 2nd degree murder. Unless Penny got on the train intending to kill Neely, the best charge you could possibly get is manslaughter.
2. You guys are still high off of Floyd and trying to get two in a row, it's not gonna happen. Neely was a threat, had to be restrained. It's not a crime even if the guy died in the hold, because letting him go would likely result in someone else getting harmed. But Penny showed that he didn't want to kill Neely by putting him into a recovery position; he went out of his way to help Neely. This isn't the hill you guys want to die on, the NYPD (who are blatantly and insanely biased towards Neely) didn't even bother charging Penny because of how clear cut this was.
Penny is a marine and I think we all know Neely is going to end up being revealed as being on some kind of drug that would lead to his body not being as resilient as a normal person. If Penny wanted to kill the guy he probably could have beaten him to death in like 10 seconds. Three people held him down and he struggled right until he passed out; when Penny put him into a recovery position. Penny was behind Neely; holding him by the neck was the *LOGICAL* thing for him to do. Neely was held at the very most up until the police arrived; which is also the *LOGICAL* thing to do with a nutjob who is thrashing around because he got stopped in his attempt to kill you.
The same people you're getting your information from said that Neely was held for 15 minutes; the court filing show that Penny hadn't even held him for half of that. You're being lied to by people who know exactly what happened and yet refuse to tell you the truth.
@@johnnysupreme5718
1. Yeah, I looked at the definition on Google. I don't want to spend all day debating semantics. There are more than one legal category for murder. Murder 1 is premeditation. Murder 2 is not premeditation. Go Google that. Manslaughter isn't legally considered murder, but morally speaking and colloquially, manslaughter is murder, because you unjustly killed someone. But manslaughter legally is a different killing of killing. It's basically an accidental killing.
2. I do not believe that he wanted to kill Neely. No, he attempted to retrain him. However, the way in which he went about restraining him was, IMO, excessive.
First of all, you bring up "if he wanted to kill him then he would've beat him" as if the only way we know he'd want to kill him is by beating. There is more than one way to subdue someone. Some ways are more deadly than others.
He did NOT need to use a chokehold to restrain him. He could've used a list of other maneuvers to subdue him. He chose literally one of the most dangerous ones. It was basically a rear naked choke or a sleeper hold. There are even different levels of chokeholds. In professional wrestling, for example, they put the maneuvers on but barely apply any pressure if any at all.
MOST IMPORTANTLY, once the other two dudes were helping him, he could've let off the choke hold as there were other people holding him down too. You don't need to lock the move in all the way. Again, a legitimate chokehold for 30 seconds is enough to incapacitate someone. Have you ever watched UFC or MMA of any kind? You put a man in a chokehold for a few seconds and the other man is knocked out. It doesn't take that long. But Neely was in that choke for far too long. Eventually, the dude was unconscious and he still has the choke on.
Last but not least, you said he did everything he could? Oh really. Did he or anyone check for a pulse? I saw people lifting the man's arm or moving his arm, but that's not checking for a pulse. I'd also assume that a member of the army might not CPR. Did they attempt that? Now I could get wrong, but I didn't hear anything about CPR. All I saw and heard about was basically he was put in a "recovery position". Literally all that means is they let him go and had him on the ground.
I'm actually not against him using the chokehold. I'm against him using it for as long as he did.
Now, you're saying that the dude may have been on some type of drug. Why did the coroner rule it as a homicide due to "compression of the neck" then?
Conservatives like it when homeless people die. That isnt an exaggeration. They dont want them fed. They dont want them housed. What happens to people with no food or shelter?
Suffering is the goal. Always remember that.
I don't know... just saying some threatening shit is different than actually like aggressively coming at someone, or whatever. I still need more information, but IMO it doesn't look good. That guy had in in a straight UFC style rear naked choke and looking like he was really cranking down on it.
We can't have people running around thinking its ok to choke someone out because they got a little scared.
The dead man was being strangled to death and his hands were being held so he could not loosen the restraint in his wind pipe.
The strangler and his helper should be arrested.
When you kill him and he shits himself, don't hang on to the choke for another 12 minutes - anyone is dead after 3 minutes and a marine should know that.
Dude…. When you have someone’s back there is a massive asymmetry of power and control. You can easily control an untrained person (without choking them well past the point of unconsciousness). Not to mention the 3 on 1 dynamic that further pushes lopsided nature of the occasion.
Even if he was overtly violent, by the time he was being choked to death there was no longer an immediate threat.
Not enough info to fully adjudicate yet, so I guess we’ll.
He killed Neely. Theres zero doubt about that. A person goes limp way before they die from a chokehold. That guy was choked well after he went limp and was no threat. He should be facing murder charges, not manslaughter.
How do you know?
Ok, good point, at least someone here has some martial arts experience, but the report was that he didn't go limp, which really puzzles me.
The choke he used was one that they teach you in boot camp. It's called a "Rear-Naked Choke" and it's supposed to be a very non-lethal blood choke as opposed to a very lethal air choke. I've actually been choked out in a grappling match. You feel the choke, if you don't tap you go limp, about 5 minutes later you're fine, but none of that happened here according to the witnesses. It could just be that he didn't have the hold, it could be that he was squeezing too tight, but either way, the guy shouldn't have died from the choke by itself 15 minutes later.
@@waltergrace565 15 minutes... about 14 minutes too much!
@@moestietabarnak It wasn't even 15 minutes. People just keep repeating that. Do you have a point though?
No, he saved NYC subway from a criminal. Not guilty.
Look how our societies’ biases callousness, apathy, lack of compassion, cruelty, and propensity for abuse failed this wounded man no his family.
There are people that are helping the homeless but are ignored by the wealthy politicians.
Everything Kyle mentioned about Jordan Neely's past record is irrelevant. The yt race soldier that choked him to death knew none of this. He just saw a skinny homeless black guy talking irrationally and he took it upon himself to put him in a choke hold, which killed him, with the help of three tethers.
I think he’s listing the things he doesn’t have - I heard food, TV and milk? And saying he was thirsty?
Edit: I also heard “I need to survive”
As an RN. When I worked in mental health, we had to do holds. When we did have to restrain the patients we COULD NOT PUT THEM IN A CHOKE HOLD! Also,we could even hold them for longer than 5 minutes at a time!! That was completely unjustified! He was murdered!!
New York is officially Gotham. Penny thinks he is Batman, but whole time he is just The Joker.
We can't green light murdering people because we're nervous about what they might do. If someone directly attacks, you should be able to defend yourself or another person. You shouldn't be able to preemptively kill people based off a fantasy in your head that someone might do something dangerous. Neely, was lynched.
I'm pretty new to BJJ, and I'm still at the level of trying to manage my emotions/stave off panic when I can't defend a choke. If the marine had gone too hard for a few seconds and killed him, I'd be like damn, that's tragic. But 15 minutes???? That's insanity. That's like holding someone's face down in a bucket of water for 15 minutes, except that a rear naked choke would actually kill you much faster and much more efficiently. You don't get to squeeze the life out of somebody over 15 minutes and then play victim when people call you out for being a murderer.
It wasn't 15 minutes
cut the bullshit
As a mom of an autistic child it sounded like he was asking for help. He was telling them he hungry and homeless.
And the repetitious movement looks like "stimming", trying to calm his anxiety. He was truly just asking for help.
His behavior was definitely abnormal. You can't expect everyone to be an expert on everyone else's mental problems. We need mental institutions and better parenting.
It’s idiotic to bring up the “criminalizing homelessness” crap here. This isn’t about that
I've come across people completely blasted out of their minds on drugs an alcohol before, even some making threats. The ones making threats, you just move to a safe distance and hope they get help. The ones not making threats, you can usually ignore them or, again, just move away from them. I've even talked to a few to ask if they were okay. What's the big difference? I'm a Canadian. Someone like this, in Canada, would be alive today, no doubt in my mind. No, force is NOT warranted for unsettling utterances, including threats. The US is a broken, hearltess country.
On a moving fucking subway?
You guys don't even have a basic understanding of what happened and yet you have deep emotional opinions
Penny, would have clearly been able to feel Jordan’s pulse, given he was pressed into his carotid arteries. He would’ve felt his pulse slow, his body go limp, then his pulse stop and his bowels release, all of this would’ve taken less than 5min to occur. He kept holding him for 10 more minutes. Jordan was 100lbs soaking wet and even those present said there was no direct threat toward anyone. Anyone claiming you can see him breath or move later on is mistaking involuntary “death rattles” as the various bodily system spasm after death. There’s a reason that maneuver has been deemed illegal, and being a trained Marine Penny knew full well what he was doing. After continuing that choke hold for longer than 15-20sec, he intended to kill that young man. And call me crazy but I don’t think it required 3 men to “restrain” a young man who is hungry and thirsty and as I said 100lbs soaking wet. I would see Jordan regularly on the subway which is why I can say he was not a large or muscular person. What they did was obviously excessive and as a trained Marine as I said he knew what he was doing which then means he intended to kill him which means Penny should be charged with murder, not manslaughter.
You dont put a person in the recovery position if you want to kill them
The mob justice by you leftists is pure evil
@@bobbun4369 you're right, you do that after you realize what you've done and that there's video recording of it and you want to try and cover your ass. Cops do that all the time. As I said, as a trained Marine he knew what he was doing. Jordan Neely was past the point of recovery long before Penny feigned any concern for his life. You also don't administer that maneuver especially for any period of time longer than 15-20sec unless you want to kill them. And a trained Marine employed it against an unarmed, malnourished, hungry and thirsty young man that was 100lbs soaking wet. Again, there is a reason why that maneuver has been deemed illegal, because it is deadly. Penny murdered Jordan Neely and I for one find it very sad that our society continues to fail him even posthumously after being extrajudicially murdered on camera.
@@bradbloom5649 Exactly.
Anybody who watches or is familiar with mma/jiu jitsu can recognize how insanely excessive 15 minutes in a choke is, trained fighters usually tap with seconds of a choke being locked in, if they go unconscious the ref will break it up within seconds. 15 minutes in a choke is a criminal. The second he was Restrained and had 3 people holding him down, the threat was neutralized. No need to carryy on, on his NECK no less.
Yeah... But he wasn't actually in the hold for 15 minutes, was he?
@@johnnysupreme5718 Yes, he was
@@donalvarez4006 Are you sure about that
Crazy how some people are immediately calling Penny a hero. Even if he was justified in restraining Neely(which idk if he was), how can he be a hero for killing him?
right wing logic. Don't forget, they're also "pro life" too, but always itching for that excuse to kill.
Same story flip the skin colors how the narrative changes.
How is stopping a violent hobo not heroic ?
@@VoodooV1your need to make up bs is pathetic
@@waterprincess6444wouldnt be a story
From the clips I’ve seen this is just an average day in NYC. I ride the subway a few times a week and you will always see a homeless person incoherently babbling. I always feel terrible for them but never see them as a threat to my safety
Maybe he wanted to be a dead Michael Jackson impersonator?
Kyle is trying to look like a Silent Movie Era villain. lol
If the cops have a video of the entire incident and they are withholding it, then it's probably safe to assume the video does not make the marine look like a hero.
Why do you defend criminals?
@@bobbun4369 I'm not defending the marine.
@@edwardmemwah1610the marine isnt the one woth a criminal record.... Cope harder
@@bobbun4369he’s gonna be soon ❤
@@bobbun4369 If you strangle an unarmed person until they lose consciousness and then make a choice to continue to strangle their limp body until they die, then you are a murderer. Or did the marine not understand that people die when they can't breathe? Prisons were built for people like him.
It is such a Kyle Kulinski move to frame it as a difference between “People who think Penny was justified in killing him” and “people who think Jordan Neely did not deserve to be choked out and killed on the subway”. This guy is a moron because all of his takes are this juvenile.
No one thinks that Neely deserved to die. I have no idea why Kyle is trying to frame it like that. The contention is over Neely being a threat or not and if that threat warranted self defense. The contention is not over whether Neely deserved to die or not. Neither side thinks that he deserved to die so it’s unnecessary to frame it like that.
this might be a hot take, but in evolution and darwinism, the dna transposer actually makes errors on purpose to cause higher rates of mutation, to change living things from what they are to something else, so it may adapt better to the environment. Also radiation and heavy particles from particle physics coming from outer space can actually penetrate solid objects and cut dna strands and that could also cause more mutations. So basically humans are supposed to keep changing. However there is no rational choice or design or any sentience behind the changes. This explains why every poll will have 8 percent of people voting the wrong way. They are damaged goods. 30-50 percent of the population are damaged goods to various extents, I don't think they should work, because a person that has a job, has tangible influence over other people's lives. Food safety, chemical safety, financial damage to innocent people. ect. In nature, or in older cultures, individuals too defective couldn't survive because there wasn't a societal safety net for them. Only in modern day do we keep homeless populations on the streets and let them live by seeking shelters in nooks and feeding off begging strangers. In old society before industrial revolution there wasn't enough resources to feed the beggars, most people could only feed themselves. A lot of these same individuals aren't homeless. Many unstable and mentally ill people find food and shelter with family or with strangers. Hot crazy women are kept off the street, until at least their good looks fade. In reality, the system was only functional as long as the crazies were culled. I know this is basically advocating for genocide, but on the other hand people are ignorantly turning away from facts and science and pretend like every mental illness or condition or disease has a medical cure, when in truth, as advanced our science seems, medical science is extremely primitive. we can't reach out and physically move molecules or atoms. We don't have nano bots or man made viruses to cure diseases. Everything that we do medically is done on a macro scale. Have a headache? take this thing that has a side effect of loosening your blood vessels. Have diarrhea? take this thing that has a side effect of slowing food travel through the digestive system so the guts have more time to absorb moisture. Were basically playing minesweeper with medical science trying to solve problems indirectly with blunt tools we have. The truth is, there is no cure, and there is no path to fix the mentally insane defective humans. Many such defects aren't superficial and are hard to detect. creating people that seem normal, cognizant, and mentally alert, that do weird, unexplainable, immoral and disgusting things, with no remorse or humanity. We just call them evil or a holes and pretend they are bad people and that there's nothing to do, when in reality they have brain damage, that they, or no one else can do anything about, that's causing their behavior, but you want to chastise them, hurt them, and torture them, because that's what they deserve because they are 'bad people'. That doesn't make sense, we're just pretending mental illness doesn't exist and lashing out in retaliation to cause suffering and pain to create self satisfaction that we're fighting evil.
'he didn't know he was going to die' feels like an absurd response to someone choking another person for 15 minutes. Even after they dedicated on themselves.
Apparently the defecation had been there before, at least according to another witness. He choked Neely until he stopped struggling then performed cpr and set him on his side so he would not choke in his own spit. It seems pretty obvious he had no lethal intent
Something tells me penny enjoyed killing him. 15 minutes ...pfft
Even if he was directly threatening people unless he initiated physical contact the choke is preemptive defense and when you’re doing preemptive defense instead of reactive it’s on you to be trained and competent with what you’re doing. A rear-naked choke hold is a choke we learn in jiu Jitsu that very often puts people unconscious in 6-8 seconds so 15 minutes is very overkill and not surprising that it was fatal.
"If you don't have a decade worth of self defense training you're supposed to let the crazy guy shank you to death"
@@johnnysupreme5718 Neely was unarmed
The problem with accepting the narrative that "more info is better" when looking at a case like this is that the people who were involved didn't have any of that additional information. Information that isn't relevant easily biases a jury, but it also easily biases public opinion. And releasing a bunch of information like this about a dead guys rap sheet only serves to justify his killing. If he actually did anything to require being restrained, they would have just released the video, the fact they haven't speaks volumes.
Kyle is super mealy mouthed on this, his guest host did WAY better.😬
@@lindaleeyou1234 Exactly. I don't trust Kyle's opinion on this. He riding the fence when it's a clear cut case of manslaughter at the least.
When it comes to black people, they're always harder on the black person if they were killed by a whyte person than the white person who unjustly killed the black person. All we know about Penning is that he was in the Marines. Did Kyle say we should know just as much about Penning as we know about Jordan? Of course he'll say we should if asked. But he didn't really make it his business to ask much about him on his own.
"If he actually did anything to require being restrained, they would have just released the video"
why would the media release a tape that makes a black man look bad
They would never do that in a million years
@@jack1uptone963 It's only clear cut manslaughter if you actively refuse to learn anything about it at all
Why didn't anyone try to talk to him ?
Offer him to get him something to eat or drink .
The fact that he was choked for that long is ridiculous .
Deescalation is so much better .
I've been on the Metro in DC , lived there for years , and I think Penny went too far .
I do jiu jitsu, it litterally only takes a few seconds to put someone to sleep. 15 mins is absolutely unnecessary. shesh
A burger and a bottle of water might have done the trick.
What a sad society we live in smfh
Did you not learn not to feed pigeons? You feed one, a horde will chase after you.
@@memebro3181 so homeless people are pigeons now? Mask off, I guess
@@sgtjohnson49 My bad. I apologize to pigeons.
Then he should of got a job rather than be a worthless pos
@@sgtjohnson49 mask off AND scared of pigeons lol wtf
Is it Kyle Ball now
Lol
😊
Hahah Kyle took Krystal’s name lol. But he's still probably Kyle kulinski.
A name to perfectly match the hairstyle...
Yes, for sure