Can Store Detectives Search Your Bags?
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- Опубліковано 27 вер 2024
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One of the funniest things i ever saw was i was working as a trolley porter in a somerfields in the uk i was approaching the store entrance side on, and i saw a man running out at a mad speed holding a bottle of whiskey...followed by the store security....followed by a manager....followed by a assistant manager...followed by a small child with a plastic toy gun running after the rest....followed by his parents trying to stop him
@@ant270 I can hear the music. Dumpdadumpdadada.
Very good observation , being able to differentiate between a bottle of Irish whiskey and Scotch whisky , or any other drink , in those circumstances .
@@derekheeps1244 It could have been Japanese?
@@mikehipperson Nah. Japanese spell it like the Scots (and Canadians apparently). The Irish and Americans spell it with an 'e'.
#Sláinte 🥃🥃
😂😂😂😂😂😂
My local ASDA supermarket alarms go off when you walk into the shop more than when you walk out !
How does that work? Can you be clearer please,thanks.
@@tardeliesmagic Can't be clearer than what I said. The alarm goes off sometimes when people walk in.
@@PINACI Can't be clearer?
@@tardeliesmagic If you don't get what I'm saying then you never will !
That sometimes happens to me too. These devices are not even accurate.
I was banned from a local food store after literally being mugged, during the pandemic, by two agency guards, at the exit. The manager on duty, lets call her Rachel, said checking the cctv would take too long so she didn't bother. I was then banned from the store, despite being completely innocent and quite literally mugged of the shopping I'd just paid for. I actually had two bags of (paid for) shopping, ripped from my hand as I left the store. Yup.
I went to Katie Morley at the Daily Telegraph, who contacted the store and I was (very quickly) subsequently cleared. Appalling behaviour. These were agency security guards, not the regular store staff. All they had to do was question the security staff/check the cameras. Staggering incompetence by the store management. Clearly the customer doesn't come first, there.
Glad you got your horrible experience put right
Did you not have a receipt?
@@ismzaxxon
I didn't. I was in the habit of making frequent small shops at that store and had no reason to be challenged. I hadn't stolen anything. It was a normal, routine small shop (£7-50). Everything you do is recorded on quality cctv so anything can be checked/verified. And ultimately it was.
@@CawKee it was no big deal. Just staggered at the stores laziness. They only had to check the cctv. But they repeatedly refused until Katie Morley got involved.
do what I do. take a photo of your receipt at the check out so if security accuse you of theft & they find out they are wrong, they make take your receipt etc.
I bought a dustpan from Tesco last week it was a fiver. Scanned all the items and paid and then walkthrough the barrier and it bleeped, the worker came running over asking if I had an items I said oh the dustpan and she removed the tag. As I walked on Jackboot Jamal came over demanding to see my receipt. I saw " No thanks" and walked on and he shuffled away. People need to understand that the items once you pay for them are your belongings and nobody especially not some jumped up security goon has the right to search of pick through them.
I was stopped by security at the door of a large electronics store. He asked to see my receipt and I said did you see me steal this item, he said no, he was just checking receipts. I said good luck with that and carried on walking, he took a photo of my back lol.
@@user-dh5bnafe4byep, I always say I want a receipt. There's a clothes shop now that refuses to give paper receipts, you have to provide an email address. If you don't you waive your rights to a return. I left the stuff on the till and left because I won't be shipping anywhere who requires my information to sell.
Ink tags don't just "explode" when leaving the store. They release ink when the tag is tampered with. But they can easily be removed with two strong magnets. There is no charge that makes it "blow up".
This 'barrister' is a doughnut.
The security firm I worked for taught us not to detain customers who set off the security alarms due to the many ways they could be triggered, although you could ASK to see inside their bags on grounds that a security device may not have been deactivated.
More importantly unless the individual was seen approaching, selecting, attempting to leave without paying AND in constant view, then any action could result in making an unlawful arrest.
You have to be on the ball when it comes to your actions and what you say, unfortunately its common to see security guards make mistakes, I'm pretty sure that's down to training from the company they belong to as opposed to the business they are protecting.
Best store detectives or guards = employed by the place they are protecting. In house has always been the best quality, people care about the stores reputation and their own reputation. I used to work for a retailler and they were amazing at the training, the support and the kit that was supplied. False stops were very sparse and usually because security hadn't seen the elements of proof.
@@emsservices6090 I'd agree with you on that. In-house personnel often come with experience and a solid track record too. Many franchise stores and building management teams lean towards contract retail security when looking at the numbers.
We had in-house security at a luxury retailer I was at, the difference was light and day when it came down to professionalism.
The alarm going off doesn't mean they have shoplifting. You cant detain on the alarm alone. ASCONE
Is there a more uncomfortable and guilty feeling than when you walk out of a big store without even buying anything?
I know what you mean, it's a strange thing to feel though isn't it?
Yeah, I work in different areas, in and out of various supermarkets to use the toilet and see if there is anything I fancy for a quick bite
Yeah, walking out of a small one without buying anything.
That depends on how much you take with you.
Worse still I set off the alarm on exit. I think it was the coiled springs on the Yaktrax I just bought from a charity shop. I showed my bag contents.
A friend got bag searched after going to Game(?) in the Arndale and it triggered on entry. Probably checking he didn't steal elsewhere.
Also had my Decathlon down jacket trigger at B&Q on entry. I remember there as a child, I put an alarm tag sticker on my dad's back and got an almighty spanking in the car after 😂
I think the key phrase is 'reasonable grounds'. The person attempting to detain you needs to have some type of evidence of a crime and simply not randomly want to check your bag which is not reasonable grounds.
BBB missing the fact that people don't want their bag searched because there is a public stigma to being seen with them looking through your possessions
Well I just stand back and cross my arms, and smile. It's uncomfortable, certainly, but they're just doing their job and I get a nice apology after. Hasn't happened for a few years, only when a tag on a box of nicotine went off. In fact I turned round myself and walked back into boots, looking for the nearest guard.
@@Blitterbug It's always worth letting others walk all over you as long as you get a nice apology after.
To me, they should have actual proof of theft prior to stopping you. If they just stop you to search your bag with no actual proof then they should then give you compensation for the inconvenience they have caused you. That should be at least £100 gift card or cash for the incorrect assumption of guilt without proof of any theft. If shops cut out these self service tills and go back to checking all shopping through proper staff manned tills, that would eliminate a lot if not most of store theft.
@@RichardKinghorn Nah, many years back I spoke to a staff member that those 4 people down the tea/coffee isle were loading their trolleys with large tins of coffee and putting their coats on top. Not interested. (the 4 wheeled trolley you see the old ladies with not the shops trolley)
I love it when they try to mark my receipt in some way. It’s my property so I forbid it. I also don’t hand my receipt to them or allow them to touch it. It’s comical when they use permanent ink to mark my receipt, yet the writing on the receipt will fade
I suggest they have as much right to search your bags as you have of searching theirs.
Well is that actually true?
@@eadweard. Yes. They have no right to search yours, you have no right to search theirs. Reasonable force to detain on grounds of reasonable suspicion, until police arrive. Police do the searching.
SIA licensed Door Supervisor here.
The shop / venue should have a "Terms of Entry" or other such notice on display that should contain wording to the effect of "Those that enter here consent to having their bags searched upon request".
This is how I operate lawfully. We are trained specifically to avoid touching people, but are allowed to detain, or prevent entry if required. I mainly work at beer festivals where shop lifting is not an issue, but our training as part of the licence covers such detention.
@@AlexanderWright1 sia licence really means nothing. Its a two weekend course and a chimp could pass it. I did it years ago.
@@AlexanderWright1 That might be the store's policy, but it does not give you a lawful right to search anyone's property. at best the store might have a civil issue with the shopper, but the law remains the law. The store might have as terms of entry, that shoplifters will be summarily executed and some door supervisors would no doubt be up for it. But it would hardly be lawful.
A deaf person (or even someone with headphones on) may not be aware the security system has alerted.
It's not the customer's responsibility to respond to the shop's security system.
£200 theft is low value? This is why we need ordinary people in government.
@@wellerjam No its not, because it only takes 7-10 robberies in a week to delete a retail workers monthly salary!
@wellerjam Low value is a relative concept. I am very glad for you that you see £200 as low value. For someone on minimum wage or a pension or social security it is very close to a week's worth of money (total monies - not just shopping money). Uk pension is circa £900per month FYI. That's why the OP is so digusted at £200 being viewed as low value. I hope this helps you understand.
@@wellerjam I'd prosecute every theft, because every criminal act degrades society, not only does a £200 limit destroy employment opportunities and destroy businesses, it creates a vicious circle where people who cannot get a job have a better life as petty thieves making sure they can never get a job. Before having to provide care for my parents I was on a £40k salary, however being brought up on a farm I have worked from the age of 10. The difference between us is that you have never learnt the value of money, or opportunities. You also don't seem to understand the societal damage either.
@@wellerjamyou wouldn't be saying that if 200 quid was stollen from you!
@wellerjam regardless whether it's low or high value, it's still classed as a "Crime" or do we forget about that and let the f#ckers walk........
I saw a Guy running out of Asda with a leg of Lamb.
The security guy in hot pursuit shouted "Oi,what are you doing with that?"
"Roasties,gravy and mint sauce" came back the reply.......
Tell me that's just a joke?
@@ChrisLee-yr7tz yes
When the barriers beep I just keep walking, safe in the knowledge that I am innocent of any crime and I assume that the beep is an error. Bill
Absolutely
Same
I tried to leave asdas recently with my trolley, the wheels locked up in the foyer area, I just presumed it was a faulty trolley. Dragged it from the doors it was blocking and was grabbing my bags as the security person walked up, asked if the wheels locked up, questioned me, searched my bags then got a device to release the wheels. Didn't even know this was a thing! Just a heads up for you.
At one time, every time I walked through the barrier, it beeped. Turned out it was reacting to my credit card.
Quite often they'll go off as you walk into the store!
Just want to say that I love this channel and the free advice 🙂😬
If you are “detained” wrongly. Is there any redress for this. For the public embarrassment, for the wasting of your time?
Most people consent to the detainment so don't have a case. If the detainment involved physical restraint then potentially you would have a claim.
If they touch you, or physically detain you in some way I would be looking at options. The only thing I say to them is,"Do you suspect that I have stolen your property?"
There’s always an alarm going off. I can’t recall the last time it wasn’t. I’m pretty certain they have a remote in their pocket.
If there`s a customer`s in the store who`s looking a bit scruffy, perhaps just finished work, sometimes they will deliberately set the alarm off as the customer leaves in order to search them.
@@HelmutSchmacker. Profiling, something i had to undertake a course on in order to get a safety card for construction work. It appears to be the other way around for people whose principle job function is lurking. One rule for us and no rules for them. I know that if there’s three teenagers hanging around a deserted self scan section at Tescos and i go through, do all the work (that i used to do when i worked in retail) for them and then to look busy they will “randomly” start snooping through my shopping. It’s an insult, i noticed that between two of their staff on “customer service” the two of them refused to process a basket of more than five items. They are lazy and stupid they spend their time trying to target, stress, embarrass and belittle their customers. I just keep putting my basket down and walking, i buy less and waste less, let’s see how that works out for them. Crystal nacht was something i used to question, now I feel like i can understand it. It’s a shame when you find yourself crying out aloud “I’ve been shopping here for over twenty years and you still haven’t caught me stealing yet.”
I wonder after i’ve losing count of the number of forgotten cr cards left behind that i’ve handed in to them, how many got back to their owners. Distrust is the order of the day.
Its more likely you are carrying something that is setting it off. Could be any number of things...But old soft tag on makeup/perfume, then football season ticket, contactless cards or RFID tag of some kind maybe a remote door pass.
Hell the shop I work in has a couple of customers that pretty much always set off the gates,, one guy its his artificial knees one it is a hip replacement and one other guy we know its his wallet. We also have a couple of electric wheelchair users that is hit and miss if it does it or not and one person whos hearing aid sometimes does it.
While I can't totally rule out someone having a remote frankly its so far down the list of possible things doing it its not even worth considering.
@@rabsmall6243 In the past it was absolutely every time i bought wet fish, i told them i’d stop purchasing it and that so would others, the wet fish counter closed. Now they’ll say it’s random, and that the alarm system is on the blink, like it always has been. Now they expect you to scan and of course as i’ve said, if they are three strong and no one else wants to go through the scan yourself then they will predate upon you to show they’re busy. Ask them why they aren’t wrapping it? It’s no service, they don’t care if a customer leaves their card in the machine though, i’ve lost count possibly close to ten cards i’ve handed in.
In our local Sainsbury's it was going off like a fairground ride.
I was detained briefly after being wrongly accused. Clueless security guards! At a well known home improvement store.
Many off them are immigrants who are fast tracked into the security industry, background checks are not possible for many of them. Some cannot speak more than a few words of English.
Go on, tell us, was it Homebase? B&Q? Nobody will mind, come on mate
@@leopheard
I'm not your mate and no I'm not saying.
I was in a hurry for work at 0730, so when I heard (another self service machine say) "Thank you for shopping", I picked up my bag and hurried out of the store!
Fortunately, I wasn't stopped.
At the bus stop, I realised what I'd done and returned and paid (had to scan everything again!)
this is why I always get a receipt, Not if they ask to see it after I have paid, but if the alarm goes off, I have had items with a tag that as not been removed or not been deactivated, and this will be the reason - I let them see the receipt let them work out what will have the tag on it and then I give them that to check
In my local Lidl's in the Old Kent Road. A security guard has been targeting for several months. Having three occasions of him making false accusations towards me.
The last occasion, He set the alarms of with something in his right hand or sleave. Everytime I tried to prove my innocence his hand would wave through the sensor and set it off. I was surrounded by 5 staff members near the exit.
I only allowed them to search my bag in their offices with 4 members of staff, including the manager. They went through their terminal logs to find out that all was paid for.
I had no tagged items in my shopping or self. The guard caused the alarms to activate.
I told the manager this was bang out of order and sort this guard out. When going passed this guard, I told him to stop fixating on me and do his job correctly. He then spoke in a foreign tongue and actually lunged forward with his head to get a reaction from me. He was also swearing at me on the shopfloor, during the incident.
I left it as that and walked away.
These guards need to learn the law. Hopefully Lidl's manager is proactive and have removed him from his role.
Something similar happened to me. They have in their hand a tag.
It's a real problem.
Tell him you know where he lives ,and if he trys anything again he be getting a visit off your 3 sons or brothers .
Totally agree with you about not objecting to having your bags searched - especially with the amount of gang thieves working through shopping centres etc these days, we have to help defeat these criminals. Also having lived through 30 yrs of "The Troubles in NI" we were more than used to being searched - having nothing to hide, except for the 'strange unnecessary rubbish us women carry in our handbags' !! Although my point NOW IS .... I purchased and paid for something in a well known 'Chemist' which had one of those security tags left in it, and I left with no problem. However, I continued freely shopping in the Mall, BUT it set off the alarm in a different store which I had later visited. I was able to produce my receipt for said 'guilty item' and was told by the security guy, that this happened quite often !! This was some years ago but I have never forgotten this experience and the thought that it could happen again !!
How does you allowing your bags to be searched "help defeat these criminals", unless you're the criminal?
While security are checking your bags the actual criminals are pushing a trolley load of stolen good out the door.
You are incorrect in stating that some security tags can explode with dye packs, there are no such tags on the market.
However there are tags that have a dye Encapsulated and it will release the dye if the pin is not removed by the correct procedure/tool
It may be a total coincidence, but after I had a couple of stents fitted to my heart, I occasionally set the alarm off. So far I've had no problems with shops, but I do always make sure to get my receipt, even if I've only bought a bottle of water. One one occasion I set the alarm off as I was _entering_ the store and I received a bemused look from the security guard.
It wouldn’t be a stent, I have one too, metal doesn’t set them off
In my time at working in stores way back when and coming across many security guards, They should follow a protocol when they suspect that someone has stolen something and should cover a few principles before they stop someone. I think they called it S.C.O.N.E at the time(no pun intended). A guard would have to See you, Conceal the product, Observe you Not(Non payment) pay for said product, and attempt to Exit before they attempt to stop you. No law or anything but just a protocol they followed way back when.
Hi Danial loved the video, as someone who has spent 20+years in retail their are people that will buy high value shopping and steal low value items, they like the adrenaline rush they get by walking out without paying for it, but like to fall back on the" I bought high value shopping so would not steal low value items "defence in court .Assuming they get found out.
Yep this very true and I have come across it quite a bit on self checkouts. Sad really that this would be a defense as people often start their shoplifting career with low level stuff and then promote themselves onto higher value items.
Funny story: I was being followed by a security guard while shopping so I was teasing him and started to act sketchy. I went around the isle then ran behind the corner and circled around him. While I was doing this I saw someone shoplift and then I confronted the guard as to why he was following me. He had no idea that someone else was shoplifting 😂
What when they “suspect”, but their suspicions are wrong, what then?
Nothing. Just don't shop there again.
You get a token apology at best.
@@goodyeoman4534 Not good enough.
In practice, nothing. It's not worth taking it further.
@@S.Trades When it happened to me at M&S, I kept going back to the store to demand an apology. Eventually some red-faced manager came out and did so. I just left it at that.
I worked in plain clothes and uniforms in the security industry.
I would use words to play my game. I would say to them.
"I'd like you to accompany me to the office"
'"Could you show me the contents of your bag, please"
Once past the barrier and it goes off I'd check the bag and receipt. Once I'd asked.
What they fail to realise is that by complying with the above statements they are giving consent.
So no force is required, if they have left the threshold of the store I'd explain if the "store" had left a tag on, they risk damaging to the item
"It's better if we go back inside save any embarrassment"
Again, gaining their consent.
I also taught the new officers, never grab from behind, always clearly identify yourself before it gets to physical.
Personally if someone runs up and grabs me from behind I'd assume i was being assaulted and react accordingly.
And if the answer to your two questions was "No I won't accompany you to the office nor will I let you search my bags" what then ?
@@user-dh5bnafe4b 👍I'd say (assuming I had not stolen anything) I'm not concerned because it will be at your embarrassment and cost when I sue for illegal search and detainment.
@@barrieshepherd7694the detainment won't be illegal. They have reasonable suspicion. If you don't consent to the search to clear the matter up, then waiting for the police will have been your choice. Any competent solicitor will rate your chances suing them at zero.
Yh most people will just say no i wont let you search or accompany you to the office
@@simonwatson2399 The test will be the reasonableness of their suspicion especially if, when the police search me , they find no stolen property.
One time I ordered an item to go to a store that didn't use tags in that branch of their store, came out no issues and went into another separate store a while later laden with shopping bags, as I went in their alarms were going off and I was dragged to one side and had my bags, pockets and everything checked, even though I hadn't even got completely through the threshold at this point, the item from the other store had a live tag on it, I wish I had known my rights better.
At Sainsbury's self serve checkouts you need to use your receipt to open the gate, I don't bother, I just push through and activate the alarm, there is no requirement to keep a receipt, also, if I get 2 red lights ,I leave the shopping and walk out, nose, spite, face I know.
I work in Security this is clearly of intetest as our Mall had its own rules too.
What a lot of people do not know is Supermarket Security are sometimes using sliders, or a tag on a wire they can use under the desk to make you beep... or press a button to lock a trolley wheel. Also when you get an item check it has normally been instigated by staff it is not as random as it appears!
I left supermarket security as I refused to employ sliders or pocket tags, if staff in self serve let you pass unless you genuinly beep you should surely not be searched.
At what point does it become unlawful detention or even kidnapping if you are totally blameless.
If there wasn’t reasonable suspicion.
The next time you're at the checkout, and you hear the beep... Whenever I hear someone set off the alarm, I just hiss, "Run!" at them, as loud as I can muster :-)
One thing to bear in mind about the beep. They are not perfect and will frequently beep on a false positive.
Yup, I suspect phones or watches
This is why they cannot form the basis for reasonable suspicion of theft as that is the least likely scenario.
@@BlackBeltBarrister Any RFID tag can set it off, Some car key fobs do as well
@@BlackBeltBarrister Contactless cards, season tickets, door fobs, etc much more likely.
@@BlackBeltBarrister There not metal detectors. Your research on a lot of issues are terrible. Honestly...Barrister my ass.
I got bleeped leaving Tesco a while ago. I got stopped & was asked if I'd bought any high value items, no I said & produce my receipt which showed I hadn't. The security chap noticed that I had a packet of ink cartridges but I'd bought them from Currys prior to visiting Tesco. After a slight panic in finding my Currys receipt I was sent on my way. Don't what I'd done if I hadn't found the receipt, I guess I'd have to demand they look at CCTV to show I hadn't been anywhere their printer ink section. Funnily enough last week I bought a dress from Tesco, when I got it home it still had the security tag on it. Great I thought when I go back it'll ping & I didn't have a receipt because the till wasn't printing them. Luckily I'd scanned by Clubcard & it could be used to obtain my receipt. Went back with the dress & the security tag didn't beep, must have been a dud one.
I just keep walking when the barriers beep (I have paid for it all!!) and the security guards just ignore me. When I see people stop when it beeps, they mostly get taken back in to the store to find the issue. The biggest issue I find is joints of meat have tags on and because self scan is so popular with shops and the payment process for this does not deactivate the tags, this always causes problems.
If a store detective attempts to detain you and you resist, does that then constitute an offence of resisting arrest, as it would with a police officer?
If the Arrest Without Warrant complies with PACE, then yes.
Where I'm from the police won't come out for shoplifting if its less than 500 quid. The security guards stand there and let them walk out lol. Lot of drug issues in Sunderland
As an Ex retailer of 20 years the differences of what was acceptable and now, work in favour of the shoplifter. Most large retailers won't want the publicity of wrongful or over enthusiastic guards detaining innocent personnel and with mobiles filming everything reasonable force is out of the question. My last company would not even approach under 16, elderly ,pregnant, etc so fill your bags, and as for the police response it's always been just an inconvenience. We actually went to court with a representative from 7 other retailers so the "suspect" had over 150 documented occasions of theft and he got a fine and a number of sessions for addiction.
It's a big reason why I am an Ex retailer.
There's a security guard at my local supermarket who seems to think he's guarding a nuclear weapons facility. He's 4 foot nothing (literally) and struts about. It's hysterical. He couldn't stop a 5 year old.
At least he has a job. Have you?
@@35geordielad Yes. Russian ambassador to the EU.
@@63mckenzie a commie sounds about right!
@@35geordielad I bet you think people without jobs are horrible cretins.
Hopefully at 4', he charges less for his services. But joking aside, I've known at least a couple of "small" door supervisors/bouncers, who were actually very good at their jobs!
It should law that every store gives a receipt. Why should i have to ask for it?
Indeed. I always insist on one. If the till doesn't print one, I make them write one out by hand. If they won't do that, I leave the goods on the counter and leave, never to return.
I worked in retail up until the 90's so things may have been different then. I was instructed, the the only occasion a person could be challenged was if they were actually "seen" to attempt to steal an item. Suspicion was not enough.
I was told the same, around the same time. It's usually the store just covering themselves with a risk-averse policy.
\\we had been shopping and after paying for our purchases we left the shop. As we were leaving an alarm went off. Having paid for our goods I refused to stop or go back into the shop. Had anyone tried to stop us or search our bags they would have been charged with assault and had to pay a substantial amount in damages! WE are not responsible for the staff failing to remove the tags.
I thought the video said that it would be reasonable for the guards to detain you if the barrier beeped on the basis that that would be reasonable grounds to think you might be stealing
@@jimrussell5931 Some folks don't clearly listen to what's being said, like @williambarnes3868
I would want tag removed to save me returning later.
@@jimrussell5931 They are just being self entitled, law does not apply to them.
If you haven't stolen, but a security guard lays hands on you is that assault, as they are only doing their job; and what if the innocent suspect then defends themselves?
Shops also spend a lot of money on security systems and personnel on a monthly basis.
If you have a receipt and just share it with Loss Prevention personnel, I don't see the problem.
The problem are the professional shoplifters.
Great guidance as always.
Mr Black have i a right to resist a citizens arrest if I'm innocent.
It's intersting though that they will only approach someone smaller than them.
I notice that my local Tesco self checkouts always need an assistant to check the empty bag for life before I can start scanning. Only started happening recently so I assume it's a new default setting. Bloody annoying waiting for someone to toddle over at their leisure after they've finished their chat with colleagues.
Aldi is more direct - head straight in the bag even though it's folded up flat and clearly empty.
I was told years ago to never chose the 'brought your own bags' option on the tills and to instead just scan and pay before packing. Apparently it's too much hassle for staff to deal with as they had to check every time. I think I was in Asda at the time.
Never use self checkouts. Why should I do the shop staff's work for them..? Give me a staff discount and I might think about it..!
Decathlon security staff regularly search people with no reason and they insist they can do it before you have left the store and it is always on the cash till.
Report the to the SIA, your local force, the media and the Home Office
The first time the security wombles stop and search me is the last time I step foot in that store.
Just decline their request to search you.
You won't be missed
When the store alarms go off, I’ve often had to go back to the store, locate a member of staff and self-exonerate! Staff are generally pretty nice since you are trying to be helpful. It can be annoying but I’d rather that than escalate the problem.
aaaahh i remember when we lived in a high trust society .... thanks to Tony that issue was 'fixed '
The barriers at a self-checkout on a local supermarket used to trigger on a combination of the tag and movement. So if a stationary tag was there, they'd sound once, but wouldn't sound again until someone moved through the barrier. And then said store had positioned the last self service till within range of the scanner. So if you scanned something with a tag, and put it next to your shopping while you waited for the attendant, the barriers would trigger off that tag on every single person that walked through. We clocked this after our second shop and were constantly amazed the store never figured out why the alarms regularly started "playing up"
In Australia, they can detain you if they suspect you've stolen something. They are not allowed to search you though and must wait for the police. If you haven't stolen anything you can sue those who detained you for false imprisonment.
I've been accused a few times and they have tried to detain me. After I explain to them what could happen if they're wrong they start doubting themselves and let me go.😂
So, when they have stopped and accused you, and they check and find you have not stolen anything, are you entitled to a formal apology and compensation for an illegal detainment.
Shop lifting is so easy to do now we even have local customers bringing their own bags and filling em up and not just a one off they do it day after day not a rough area either ...
The single most embarrassing shop visit I had was on the way home from a staff Xmas party.. had a large overnight bag, waiting in the small town of Ramsbottom.. the queue was massive, decided to leave it, the small screwdriver set didn't warrant the wait.. store manager pulled me aside on the way out and asked if he could check my bag.. obviously I had no issues because I'm not a thief.. then it dawned on me, there were two days worth of dirty clothes in one pocket.. including a bloodied shirt because I'm a terrible yet committed dancer when drunk 😁 "oh, you might want to stay out of that pocket.." - I sounded guilty, so he obviously checked it.. we both learned lessons that day.. his was to wear PPE 😂 mine.. do not take large bags into a store then leave in such a way..
But some abuse the situation and think they work for MI5!
My reaction and compliance depend on the attitude of the guard. If they are polite and don't accuse me, I am far more likely to be polite and helpful.
The ‘reasonable force’ argument is only truly applicable where there is real tangible evidence that someone has committed an offence. Otherwise it’s guesswork and reliance on unreliable detection systems. Who hasn’t set off the store alarm after buying a meal deal from Sainsbury’s?
In civil court, the machine beeping isn’t by itself strong enough evidence to allow a person to physically detain someone who ‘could’ be innocent, but physically resists detainment. And let’s face hard facts here, the accused can also use reasonable force to protect themselves. The security guard/business are then at risk of being sued for assault, false arrest and unlawful detention.
In the U.S. the store management asks if they may search your personal bags. If you refuse, they will call the police and hold you until the police arrive. The police will then ask to search your bags. If you refuse to give the police permission, you'll be immediately arrested and taken to the station and searched there. One way or another, someone is going to search your bags. If you're innocent, just give them your receipt and let them look. It'll save you hours of hassle. Of course, if you're guilty...put your head between your legs and kiss your butt goodbye!!!
When I did retail security we would never stop someone and ask to look in their bags unless we were 100% sure we had seen them conceal goods , if a member of staff told us they thought someone had stolen something we would say well you stop them then because we only acted when we saw it and usually had cctv footage to back it up .
Only if you consent can they look through your bag(s) but if you don't consent then they're going to call the Police and then you'll be searched and charged. If a store detective searches you and finds something they may just ban you from the store / shopping centre.
One of your comments struck a cord with me, "Do you want to add this item?" This happens to me almost every time I shop in my local Tesco store.
There should be rules around not having alarms turned on if no-one is monitoring them. If when I'm leaving a store the alarm goes off, I should know what I'm meant to do in that situation. It shouldn't be down to me to stop and look for a security person.
The first thing I was taught on becoming a retail security officer was that I must have seen five things before I can approach and detain or ( commonly called following the S.C.O.N.E. code ) , namely …..
Selection of items
Concealment of said items
Observation of suspect to be uninterrupted
No attempt made to pay for the items.
Exit of suspect from the store.
Even then I would detain the person until police arrived, explained what I had seen and let the police search them and their bags. Fortunately, since I retired years ago I have never been stopped or accused of theft. The first time it happens with no proof, a huge lawsuit will follow.
I always seem to have the reverse of these issues. When occasionally the detectors beep as I leave (it seems to be quite common in one particular shop for it to beep when you buy certain food items) I stop and look for someone from the store to react in some way, as I don't want anyone to think I'm running off with potentially stolen goods, but... no-one ever seems to react, and when I finally do get someone's attention, they seem confused why I would've stopped...
Just talking about innocent shoppers, frictions are created in these scenarios because of how the security person approached it. If the security approached the suspect suggesting he needs to do a routine check because of the beep, it could be a false beep but he wouldn't know. Then it is more likely to defuse the situation. I've triggered beeps when walking out (work access card), I typically turn to the security guard straight away and tell him me it might be me triggering it, do you want to see the bags and receipt? This never creates any suspicions and most will wave me on without looking through the goods in any detail.
Im a guard myself and i can tell you there is no way on earth i am going through someone's bag , you don't know what else there is in there , knives , needles anything !! And if i stop you then i have gone through the ASCONE process and there are stolen items in your bag , therefore i dont need to check , i will wait for the police or for you to get it out yourself,
As for the EAS machines (beeping machines) i can tell you that the people who trust those the least are the Guards , damn near everything sets them off!! Usually lipsticks bought elsewhere and Xmas lights are also a killer (they are wrapped up in a coil and look like a security device to the EAS machines)
When an EAS goes off most guards will think " bloody cashiers" and want to remove the tag for you because we are the first point of call when an upset customer gets home , finds the tag , and has to go back to the store and says " well the machine didn't go off when i left" and we get the brunt of it !! BTW there is a big big reason that you can walk out of the store without the EAS going off and then going off when you come back in the store but thats for another day
I wouldn't mind searching of bags filled with shopping that I'd bought from the store, but not of anything else. The other thing to consider is that a lot of the tag systems work on similar frequencies, so if you leave a store and their alarm goes off because a tag hasn't been deactivated, it's likely to go off when you enter and exit any other stores with that item as well ...
A common cause of this is CDs/DVDs etc., many have tags in them from the factory - so if you have a display case and they swap it for a "new" one, chances are that's got tag(s) in it ...
So what is the situation when a supermarket marks down items but when you check the receipt you find that you have been charged the full price?
Don't know if it is still the same, but years ago, PC World in Mile End had lockers for customers to put any bag they were carrying in while they shopped.
The dye fill tags do not explode if you leave the store, they are not smart, they are designed to break and release dye though any attempt to remove them without the correct tool.
I have an RFID tag on the ring of my car key as I have keyless entry to my home, this causes no end of amusement as it always sets off the alarm in Lidl, no other retailer is triggered, Lidl must use alarms that use a frequency my tag resonates at which is different to all other shops.
Can till staff look in your bag before you pack your shopping in them they are doing this in our local aldi
Nothing wrong with that. If you have nothing to hide.
I actually tested this and refused when they asked and they then refused to serve me, so probably part of their terms n conditions of sale. 😊
@@user-xs9fp3ic9yisn’t that guilty until proven innocent…
@@user-xs9fp3ic9y perhaps concerned shop staff should be able to search through your wallet, your phone or even your home. I mean if you have nothing to hide then why not? My bag has personal property in it, Perhaps I do not want strangers pawing through it.
I had a folded up carrier bag which I unfolded to put my shopping in as I approached the cashier putting through my goods. They still insisted that they checked inside the bag, which was obviously and blatantly empty! 🤷
My guess at 15 seconds in
Detain? Yes via citizens arrest.
Search your personal belongings? Absolutely not.
The citizens arrest thing is an urban myth. Don't ever fall for that. You'll get done for assault.
If you haven't done anything, isn't that assault.
@@anthonyrthomasukno..Trespass. A civil offence. You’d have to sue for recompense.
@@anthonyrthomasuk you'd need reasonable suspicion of a crime, you can't just random check like they do before you pay. This is where putting shopping in your own (potentially not empty) bag is a very shady ground.
Let's say I'm out on foot, got my rucksack, I go to the local supermarket and get a few things.
But they've got no organic milk, so while walking home I pop to another scan and go place, scan the milk, put it in my bag with the other shopping and checkout. I then get a bag check....what's in the bag? All my last lot of shopping!
But I've done nothing wrong.
@@anthonyrthomasukpotentially yes, but I'm assuming the security guards aren't just randomly accusing people
In Australia it is standard practice to check your bags when leaving a shop.they even looked in my handbag on occasions, this did REALLY put my back up,but that is how things are over there.
A store which I shall not name includes in its packs of steak, a security tag which is not evident, and I have in the past gone through the security gates and set the alarm off. All security tags should be obvious and not designed to cause an innocent person to be embarrassed because they did not know the security tag existed.
If you're outside the store and they call the police because the the alarm has gone off, do the police need a search warrant to go thru your bag ? (UK)
I once had a thin metal security tag left on the inside of a new tie. It was tucked a long way inside, so wasn't plainly visible. At the time of buying, I had my bag searched briefly but was allowed to carry on, as it seemed a false alarm. A few weeks later, I went to do my Christmas shopping on Oxford Street and Regent Street after work, when I was wearing the tie, still unaware of the tag. I set off every alarm as I walked into and out of every store.
Oh- how embarrassing 😮 and incompentant of the store
So when I used to go out I've seen alarms go off as a person walked into the shop, they were carrying no bags just the cloths on their back, they also just sometimes randomly go off like I saw one person part with someone inside go out the shop turn around and go back in to get the car keys go back out and the alarm triggered after not going off the first two times then then came back in and nothing.
After seeing stuff like that I wonder if alarms are set to have false positives every so often for some reason, posable to show people the alarms do work and just like an arcade machine can be set by the owners maybe these alarms work in a similar way.
How does it work if they ask to search your bags on the basis of a 'random' check? Surely this can't meet the definition of reasonable suspicion and I assume that having declared that you have been selected to be search through random sampling, they have ruled out the opportunity to subsequently claim that they suspect you of theft. I would have also thought that being searched randomly then being discovered to have item(s) in your bag that were not paid for would offer the defence that the items were already in your own bag prior to entering the store and nothing had happened prior to the search to suggest that you intended to steal anything or that they suspected you had stolen them. This is a very tricky area for the stores and their owners.
You just decline and walk on.
I don’t shoplift, and there’s no chance anyone is checking my stuff, reasonable force works both ways, I can refuse more strongly as is my right
Years ago, when self checkouts were introduced in a local supermarket, the alarm went off as I left. The security thug grabbed my arm from behind me. No ‘excuse me’. He insisted on looking through my bag. I insisted the store manager do this as I didn’t trust him. The manager was polite and asked to look in my bag. Turned out it was the security tag on a joint of meat that wasn’t deactivated. I scanned the item as instructed on the machine. Apparently, I didn’t scan it close enough to the deactivation loop. No indication as to where this loop was. She showed me. Small text on a grey background with slightly lighter text, just below the scanner. They added a poster with the instructions next to the scanner a week later.
Thanks Dan I appreciate these clarifications
Sports store with a less then perfect customer service record, we bought some sports bags that was not in stock anywhere other than one seller at a very inflated price on Amazon.
Bought 3 bags and whilst leaving the store the alarm went off, they ask for the receipt and showed them that and the 3 bags where a tag was spotted, they took the bag to the till at the back of the store and we were gone in 3 minutes. We didn't see the issue, probably saved us time if the tag set off sensors in other stores.
I tend to use a bag on wheels a fair amount these days. I make sure I take every receipt even for the smallest items as I am very aware that I am probably a bit of a suspect.
I used to get my shopping delivered from Asda and more often than not they used to deliver a litre of brandy with a security tag on. Had to take my angle grinder to it before I was able to open it.
That's a bit over the top, we use a Dremel 🤣
Often enough the machine beeps when somebody enters the shop. Once, I seen somebody getting searched for that.
Great video as always, just a side note on the exploding tags. These only explode if tampered with and they leak dye onto the clothing.
I worked with these in retail security :-)
I often set off the alarms, leap back into shop, offer to tip bag onto floor. Staff shake heads and wave me through laughing. Why? Haven’t shoplifted but don’t understand why they don’t check. 🤷🏼♀️
I had a big shopping bag the other week- a bag fir life- I put something on the top of the bag I wanted- you could clearly see the item- and joined the queue to pay for said item. The security guard for the store came up to me in the queue and told me off for putting said item in my bag even though Said item was visible(I didn’t try to hide it) , I was in the queue (to pay for it) & I never went anywhere near the shop door. I got told to use a basket next time I shop there. First time Iv been stopped in town.
I feel i must say thanks for your highly interesting a usefull content please don't stop creating it .
He isn't making it up about people just walking out with stock. I've seen people walk into the shop grab a crate of cider and walk out with it.
What we were taught at Hendon, regarding section 24 of PACE:
1. Before,
2. During,
3. After,
4. Maybe.
Only police officers can arrest under circumstances 1 and 4.
Was that a while ago? Because current legislation around Arrest Without Warrant is based on "reasonable suspicion", which aligns with your number 4.
@@stevenhodgson834 2002.
@@rexel666 Surprising, because I've just checked the historical versions of PACE and the 2001 version has the wording for "reasonable grounds for suspicion" for an Arrest Without Warrant, same as it does today.
I used to randomly set off the alarm at Tesco, sometimes on entry, it turned out to be a security tag in a small pocket of a wallet that I had bought months before on holiday.
Library books will set the alarm off, as will many other items.
Havin been stopped by a store detective, a very arrogant one whom I could have eaten alive. He demanded to search me and that I should identify myself. Which of course I refused, and I told him to call the police.The police came, found nothing and left rather Pd off. On my way out I winked at him blew him a kiss and told him. 'From now on every time I or someone else from my family comes into this store they are going to act suspicious. And wait and see how long it takes before the police refuse to come.
Security guards and store detectives know better than to stop someone on a hunch and always make sure to only stop someone when they are 100% certain a theft has been committed. If in doubt let them walk out. "I forgot to pay for this one" is the oldest one in the book. Who wouldn't want a free chocolate bar when they have just spent £150 in the shop? Once you leave the store without paying, its theft. The police wouldn't be called, but you'd be slapped with a civil recovery and banning from the shop. In their eyes, this wasn't the first time you stole, its the first time that you have been caught.
That's simply not true. Not all security guards follow this principle.
The phrase "reasonable force" is my most hated in British law. It is much too vague and tells on reasonable interpretation by the authorities.
It allows you to be attacked, panic and hurt the attacker..... then be prosecuted by ambitious and unscrupulous police/CPS.