In my case, I realize that I have hearing fatigue when literally all the sound from my equipment is garbage to me ... the next day it sounds amazingly good if I am rested. In particular, I do not resist the high mids, the most damaging area of the treble (4-8k) for a long time ... Nor the 200hz emphasis produced by the acoustics in my room. So I apply a slight equalization of -5db in these frequencies to balance the overall sound. I try to listen at medium volume at a distance of no more than 2 m from the speakers to avoid sound reflections. I prefer the noise from the surface of a vinyl (reminds me of the crackle of burning wood) to digital sound compression devices. The abuse and lack of dynamics of modern recordings makes the experience of listening to music more exhausting
Have had the same exact experience. To the point of me swearing I have a tweeter that is not working correctly. I have 2 sets of the same speakers so I move to a different room and realize it has to be me. 2 days off and then I am good to go again. If I am going to listen to CDs; I must do it before I listen to vinyl or high res samples. I can't go backwards during the same listening session.
Bad mastering also gives me "listening fatigue"! Sometimes when something's on my mind, it'll hit me! Listening fatigue happens mostly with CDs than LPs, but like I said , sometimes bad mastering!
I listened to mainly rock music but new audiophiles who had broad tastes and open minds when it comes to music help open my mind to music . I got my love,of classical music from my mother who would listen to Wagner's music . Jazz ,rock ,funk , pop, dub ,house, heavy metal , ambient, industrial, blue grass , country ,hip hop , krautrock ,salsa ,folk , chinese tradional music , Arabic. It's all good .
I have found that listening fatigue happens when you listen to your system too much. You get used to the sonic characteristics of your speakers/system and they just don't have that "magic" anymore. Simple fix. STOP LISTENING TO YOUR SYSTEM! Go away for for a day or too, then come back and hear the difference. ANA[DIA]LOG glossed over this a bit, but it is the truth. I think it is one of the main reasons (if not the most important) for the cause of "listening fatigue".
Once I experienced a very strange fatique after listening for only half an hour to a flac of Benny Goodman's 1938 Carnegie Hall Concert I found on archive.org. It was recorded by someone from a record of the 1950's and presumingly in 96khz.... Well, problem is neither the records of the 1950's nor the microphones that they used to record the concert in 1938, nor the audio tape it was recorded on were capable of reproducing 96khz. Therefore most of the audio signal in this flac was just junk: Noises from the uncleaned record (you could hear every tiny bit of dust on it), the scratching of the needle (I think it was the wrong player for that record), and other issues. I couldn't find any information about the microphone used at Carnegie Hall back in 1938, but assumed after some research that most likely it could not record above 8000hz - so I shamelessly cut away every frequencies above that and recorded it on a TDK type I cassette with Dolby B enabled. What looks like a horrible frankenstein method (it is!), actually worked out pretty good. I really enjoy listening to the result. Still, of course, I would like to get my hands on a original record from the 1950's or at least a good CD of that concert. But for now it's ok. What I learned from that experience is, that wrongly encoded digital music files can cause unwanted fatique! It makes no sense to encode a flac to 96khz, or even 48khz, when the original audio source was not recorded with microphones, that are actually capable of catching all the sounds and ultrasounds.
Actually, you just pointed out what I have said on other forums and posts. 24bit 96k or above doesn't do much to improve the sound quality from any recordings. It comes down to "how they are mastered"! Even the latest music with the latest recording equipment can sound like crap if it is not mastered properly for the right format. Vinyl must bet mastered for vinyl. CD must be mastered for CD. And ESPECIALLY, HiRes must be mastered for HiRes. Old music tracks can be up mastered (not up sampled) to the higher range response if you go back to the original masters and not filter anything. You just essentually remastered a HiRes file (which I question if is was really HiRes) down to a filtered version that has better sonic characteristics.
I experience this when listening to low-fi stuff, i.e. 64kbit/s MP3 or AM radio. I never listen to music on high volume on speakers, only on my headphones. Doing this for a long period of time makes the music very dull and it does appear to get more silent every minute.
@@anadialog Funny! When I first noticed it I thought I had two videos playing at once. Once I realized it was coming from your video I thought it was a great object lesson, and kept waiting you to mention it. Thanks for creating interesting content.
This is an under rated issue. We always talk about sound stage and recreating the music as if it is played in our living room. That can not be done but important is to create a stereo set up that does not lead to listening fatigue. It could well be that audiophiles who start tweaking their gear by adding cables and such are suffering from listening fatigue. Perhaps the real definition of an audiophile is "a music lover with a low listening fatigue threshold".
I think that frequency variety is the culprit, too. If a few hours of The Carter Family or Aerosmith starts to annoy, try listening to something very different in your library, which will likely be a sort of palate cleanser for your ears and brain, different frequencies might stimulate the ear in a fresh way while giving your ears a break from the same frequency marathon of your previous choice of binge listening. Another reason could be speakers causing your frequency fatigue. Different manufacturers make speakers that can sound noticeably different from other manufacturers, because they emphasize different frequencies. Maybe your amp lets you choose different speakers? Sometimes you can play set A, other times set B, or maybe both A and B at the same time, for a little more variety.
Another cause is the so called solid state sound ,harsh and overly bright, which is why some companies try to make their solid state amps sound like a tube amp. Still another is an under powered amp , while most of the music may not clipped many of the transients are due to lack of head room. Also the type of distortion matters as tube amps produce even order harmonic distortion that is not fatiguing where as solid state amps produce odd order harmonics that are fatiguing.
Perfect timing for that video. I started suffering this a month ago. Great to hear you have done some research. Very handy. I am trying to take things quiteter for some time now.
@@anadialog I guess it is mainly overload. TV and stereo at home, radio in car, earpods at work and late at night. Of course getting into hifi gear in the last two years has added to all this. It went real bad three weeks ago, now I am slowly getting better.
And a big reason for that is analog has zero timing errors and digital is plagued with it. It’s gotten better, but many OS dacs have horrible timing if directly compared to analog recordings.
I recently upgraded my cd player, finally I can enjoy the music very close to vinyl sounding, I use a Marantz cd6000ose ki signature with digital coax to my topping d30 DAC.. sounds incredible imo
I switch to a different type of music i mix it up a bit when i feel the fatigue. Some times trying music you never though you might like its a great way to get back into it quick.
why worry about Brickwall mastered modern CDs or Loudness war? just get yourself a DVD version, problem solved. There is many back catalog Album released on DVD format e.g Eric Clapton Unplugged DVD (The Best Dynamic Range Recording Ever on 1992). Rattle and Hum-U2 (The Best Analog Tape Recording ADD transfer on 1988!), ROY ORBISON - Black & White Night(The Best full Digital Recording DDD transfer on 1988!) , but be warned , it might change your music perception forever. Most DVD format SPARS Code : ADD or DDD. It's the CD audio and LP vinyl record you need to avoid here. Most vinyl record SPARS Code : AAA and CD audio are SPARS Code : AAD. You need SPARS Code with DDD to achieve audiophile quality. e.g Dire Straits - Brothers in Arms DVD(1985) is DDD! ($200- selling in ebay now!)DIRE STRATS Album: Brothers in Arms was recorded in 1985 using Sony PCM-3324 DASH Digital Tape Recorder costing $150,000! This is 24 tracks digital recorder on 1/2" wide tape! that incredible! Just listen to this song Dire Straits - Your Latest Trick ua-cam.com/video/NtfxHfoxExc/v-deo.html
@@monetize_this8330 Yes it's often adapted for vinyl, so that you don't have things like inner groove distortion. Sometimes, even the order of the tracks is changed for vinyl, so that the loudest tracks are on the first half of both sides. Whether the master is digital or analog doesn't really matter in my opinion, as long as both are high quality. For example, the digitized masters in the Sony DSD archive capture the all properties of the original analog tape very well.
I had an Emotiva CD player and an Emotiva preamp that gave me serious listening fatigue. The CD player actually at moderate levels was so bright that it caused pain to my ears and headaches. Even at low levels, which made it more tolerant, but I still could listen to either for long periods. The preamp was their first generation. The amp was much better and I used it along with my Audio Research Vt100 mini to maintain the tube life, but I missed the Audio Research when it wasn't in the system. I eventually sold all of my Emotiva gear and replaced it all with Audio Research. With my current system I made a very stupid mistake with my Vandersteen crossovers and had a couple of switches in the crossovers reversed, which practically killed the treble, which caused listening fatigue on a different level and caused me not to listen to my favorite Audiophile pressings. I fixed that last week and I have been more than happy and the bass is even better and the treble is like it was when I auditioned the speakers in the store. I have listening fatigue with my car factory stereo when I listen to loud as well, I get ear ringing, so listening fatigue is real. I have a two devices coming in two days that you would like, the first one is a Acoustical System Smart Tractor, which is an advanced protractor, glass based with engraved points on the glass and an arm and point for the pivot point with a loupe to actually see where the cartridge is, so I can't wait. I also have a Sweet Water Sugar Cube vinyl de-clicker, SC-1 coming on the same order, it removes pops from records on the fly. Also an improperly set up turntable, which over produces the treble or bass due to vta and those SS produced when your alignment is off can also cause listening fatigue. I know that you are primarily an analog guy but have you checked out what is going on with the newer Blue Tooth spec Ldac, which you can use your cellphone for. I was watching Thomas and Stereo and he had the IFI Zen Blue, HiRes Bluetooth Dac and he thought it was pretty good. I know you are constantly on the hunt for new tech. I decided to give this a try because of the results I got with a integrated bedroom amp called the Rotel RA-1572, which has a built in Bluetooth Adapter. I used the codec AptX and I was quite impressed with what I got with it and a pair of Bower and Wilkins CM5 Book shelf speakers. I ordered the device and it arrived yesterday and I hooked it up both with analogue and digital through coaxial and using a UA-cam channels by the name of Audiophile NBR Music and Sound master with the Let Test Bass Sound Your Audio System. I was very impressed, there is a ton of percussions here and I’m running it coaxial through my Audio Research Dac 8 and through its own analogue and Dac. This little device is pretty amazing for what it does and I don’t know what type of mics those two channels are using but the sound quality is quite good. To get the best sound, if you have an Android phone, you have to go into your phones Developer mode and enable LDAC for the highest quality or AptX or AptX Hd if your device doesn’t support it. My IPad supports AptX. My cellphone is a Samsung S8 plus and I can walk around the whole first floor and both bathrooms and bedrooms and not break the Bluetooth signal. Bluetooth is definitely getting better here. If you can reach out to IFI or your local Audio store and bring this in for a review, I think you might like it.
Hey Sid! Thanks for sharing your experience and for your bluetooth suggestion. Indeed things are getting better and better, in fact, as I mentioned in my High-res video, we know have a wireless high-res certification and the device you are talking about seems to go in that direction!
I think that anxiety and stress may contribute. I wonder whether our brains/hearing have evolved to boost attentiveness to high frequencies when stressed. Our hunter-gatherer selves (humans have spent 90% of their existence on earth as hunter-gatherers) needed to hear the twigs cracking if an animal or human foe was nearby, or the rustle of a predator etc. We really haven't evolved much past that yet. So when we are stressed today the same effect may occur - and our brains are distorting the audio so that certain frequencies are perceived differently or more prominently. I think even vague background noise also contributes. Our brains are processing all exterior sounds all the time. If our hearing is OK we can pick out individual conversations in a crowded noisy space. Our brain is 'processing out' the other noise but it is still present. The fewer the background sounds the less work our brains have to do. Is that why audio systems often sound better late at night? Less traffic/external machine sounds/etc? I think psychology has a lot of impact on listening fatigue.
3 things create listening fatigue for me 1, boomy bass 2, the range between 1k - 3k causes the most listening fatigue this is a range the ears are most sensitive to. I always drop this range down a couple db. fatigue is gone. 3, having you speakers too close to the walls especially the side wall.
I must say.. you have quite a nice sounding voice yourself, not fatiguing at all. You have great room acoustics, although you have these stacks upon stacks of cd's! How do you do that!?
I seem to suffer this fatigue on occasion whenever I listen to digitally mastered recordings, particularly anything instrumentally focused, like Jazz or Classical. They sound distinctly harsh compared to the original analogue recordings, from the few comparisons I've made so far.
"Un-natural sound." You have perfectly described my listening fatigue. I have three albums. Sarah Vaughan, Dinah Washington and Nina Simone, all of whom I love. These discs have only the left channel with their voices, not the right channel. I couldn't listen to them. I really couldn't. That's "un-natural sound."
Did you try summing the channels or hitting the mono switch on your pre-amp? I don't mind records like this; but I can see how it could be disorienting.
@@EdLawless My TT has a pre-amp built into it. There is a switch you can turn the pre-amp off if you have an external one. My receiver does not have a mono/stereo switch. I have got a lot of mono records, I purchased a mono cartridge (it really does help). In the brochure it says this cart is only for playing mono recordings. Anyways, I am considering playing them on a mono cart. I researched it. Some guys say that is O.K. Some guys say that it's not O.K. .6 mil. conical. TF 2.5 g. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Have a good weekend.
@@anadialog Especially if I'm listening to it on headphones. What Nina Simone album do you have? I have "The Hits," New Continent Records, 2017, 180 gram.
i have a kef R3 pair now, switching from some cheap towers, but those new ones cause me listening fatigue especially with commercial music. I'm listening to only hifi versions on Tidal. I'm not sure yet which is the reason, maybe poor recordings, too analytical compared to my previous, too bright, more reflections, too much stereo (it s like the sound is going back and forth too much between the speakers, or like somebody is changing the volume continuously). I also noticed the fatigue/annoyance is present when the songs are more dynamic, if i m listening to slow paced rhythm i can tolerate it more, anyway i can then continue my listening session for hours on my Philips x2hr headphones, and it makes me to no longer want to turn on my speakers again...
@Jingle Nuts Ogg from about 205k to 440k replaces ACC for me -ACC is just mp2 with enhancements -and its all bass and voice and the added part is treble -fatigue , you get a cd copy but worse -ogg at 440 catches the "air" that might be prestent so does it as 205..maybe
Very well thought out presentation on a difficult to pin down problem. Can I add one somewhat left field suggestion. You say “anything unnatural” will cause fatigue. Turning things on its head, music itself is not “natural” - compared to, say, human voices, bird song, or the sound of running water - and HiFi is a step away from music, being a reproduction of it. The sound of musical instruments, music itself, and then HiFi which reproduces it, are all “learned” sounds. A HiFi feels natural to us if it corresponds to the sounds we have learned at a young age. So, for example, if in our early childhood we are exposed to our parents’ music setup, we will learn that sound, and it will be pleasing. Music that deviates from that, may not sound pleasing, including the more real sound of live music from a band. The opposite may also be true - Hifi, even a good one, may not sound pleasing to someone who experienced mostly live music as a very young child. Therefore, fatigue may be due to a sound system that does not match what we grew up with, which will be different to each person. The conclusion therefore is that all factors will be individual - room acoustics, tonality, distortion etc, depending on our earliest sound experiences. This also would explain why some people love vinyl more than others. Just a thought...
I see people are complaining about compression.. first off all , most of audiophile amps and speakers like sound on steroids with high gain .. high sensitivity.. high input signal DACs ... weird materials speakers and power cables ...tuning rabbit hole.. etc .. 90% of the audiophiles doing same mistakes through this journey..
I get visual fatigue when I watch this video, or at least I get very distracted from the intended content of the video. A tip for future videos, make sure the light direction from your lamp is calibrated not to reflect the surface of your glasses directly into the lens of your recording device. Either change the angle horizontally or vertically. Make a short test and you're good to go.
Hay, great video, I'm still watching, but you ask... "So what are we could say the main causes that bring this type of fatigue?". My answer, and perhaps the most obvious, LOUD LOUD LOUD MASTERING REMASTERING, and MORE REMASTERING!!!!!!!!!!!!. Yes I know, I shouted it, but that's exactly what brings fatigue and kills my ears. A louidly mastered song within the first 20 seconds already makes my head explode, and one just feels violent. To get around these issues now, I play my music through a program with a compression plugin that at least greatly reduces the harshness of loudly mastered tracks. One now only dreams of how CDs were mastered back in the 80s. :(
I have a pair of full range stereo speakers on my PC, where i listen to music switching between Spotify, UA-cam, CDs through WMP, and FLAC files on occasion. I set my default output format to 48khz and 24bits on the speakers sound settings. I wanted to know if it should be set lower or to leave it like that, considering most streaming services don't go above 44.1khz and 16bits, as well as CDs. Maybe the upsampling of higher frequencies also causes listening fatigue, but i might be wrong.
regularly listend to music on earphones. Yesterday after listening to music on earphones for sometimes my ear feels very weird. I can hear sounds perfectly but at the same time it feels like something is in my ear. I dont know how to explain exactly but it feels very weird feels like my ear lost somekind of sensiivity.I wonder if it is listening fatigue?
Hi man, great video, as usual!!! :D I'm into digital music because I've travelled around the globe for about 25 years and used to use MP3 music (which most of the time is not that good) but now that I settled back in Italy I'd like to build my true hires music library without having to spend all the money I would need to spend with vinyls. Therefore I've subscribed to HDtracks and Qobuz. So I would like to ask you a question, are there any outdoor active speakers (I'm not interested in 100,000 watts but a clean, three-dimensional sound) to use with 96 kHz/24 bit liquid lossless audio, in a small environment like a garden? And would it be better if the speakers, for best music quality, arrives at a maximum range of 45/48kHz? I would like to spend around 500 euros per speaker... Thanks so much!!!!!!!!
Unfortunately I don't have a true suggestion. I do love my Marshall Kilbourne, but it's a standalone speaker. Otherwise the Polk atrium 6 looks interesting, but never tried them.
I think also our personal physical state can affect our listening experience. For example, if l've just come from a long day at work, l sometimes find myself yawning or even dozing off when listening to music l've enjoyed before, and l haven't changed any system settings either. And then of course, when l have a headache, cold or allergies, it can also be difficult to get into the sound.
You are so right it had happen to me I stop listening to music for a while in analog style my equipment don't sound the same to me is weird n all my hight end tape deck got mess up on me especially my revox 215 😭😭😭😭😭😭 love the way that tape deck sound n record on my equipment I'm looking for someone that know how to fix them I know I will pay a lot I don't care as long they fix it I think it need lubricant n clean up everything works it just the tape deck play slow it could be anything but it rewind n forward n play just sound slow then it stop some tape it will play some tape will not omg my baby got sick after all this years was working fine my first time it have problem it sound so fresh n mine other decks too got mess up is like I'm having bad luck all that is going to cost me I know that when I find the right person that know how to fix those tape deck I don't want to give it to anybody that don't know what they doing 😭😭😭😭😭😭😭 my baby
Analog recordings have zero timing issues. So time domain is key. Digital devices are more often than not with poor time domain or poor timing. Which is the main or most common fatigue imo. Many prefer analog sound for this exact reason. Cd’s were horrid when they first came out and still not that great.
This is a very good video. Especially listening environment is often overlooked by others. In my opinion, the main fatiguing issues are sibilance and too much highs. Especially sibilant cartridges can be very, very tiring. With MM cartridges, the loading capacitance can be used to take the sharp edges off. Just a tip: I think the groomed goatee-style beard you had at your first videos was better then the fluffyness you have now 😜
Thanks! Coming from one of my most demanding subscribers that doubles the compliment for me! Ahahah! Too fluffy? Perhaps that is the after shower effect!
The other thing is top 40 radio music . If your record collection has top 40 music it will get boring real quick . The other is Muzak . Please don't confuse Muzak with Ambient because they are different beasts .
i regularly listend to music on earphones. Yesterday after listening to music on earphones for sometimes my ear feels very weird. I can hear sounds perfectly but at the same time it feels like something is in my ear. I dont know how to explain exactly but it feels very weird feels like my ear lost somekind of sensiivity.I wonder if it is listening fatigue?
I felt hit by no. 2 listening to this. I felt the background-music disturbing as your voice also seemed quite low. (bad S/N ratio). Listening on headphones in a quiet environment.
Un pó di tempo fa ho acquistato dei diffusori abbastanza grandi, e all'inizio la goduria è stata totale, miles davis sembrava proprio li davanti a me, era come se venisse tutti i giorni a suonare a casa mia... Ma dopo un mese, sentire nel mio salotto uno che suona la tromba (anche se é miles davis) ha iniziato a rompermi i coglioni, alla fine ho cambiato i diffusori e li ho presi più piccoli... Quando i suoni sono troppo reali, a me dopo un pò danno fastidio, la musica dal vivo é bellissima ma, secondo me, va presa a piccole dosi.
Un punto di vista interessante, soprattutto per il fatto che è davvero passato ad un sistema ridotto per così dire, e forse anche comprensibile...ma non potrei fare ridurre la fedeltà, posso e voglio solo incrementarla. Quando sono in modalità relax basta abbassare il volume.
![ANA[DIA]LOG](http://yt3.ggpht.com/50CpmGNilS8aoMlarZVhI_GxRDoZdbj4ZgwCMZXg-Rq2PrEvCytlE6RVyLUrNY-rwE_sAlZ1Zw=s48-c-k-c0x00ffffff-no-rj)
In my case, I realize that I have hearing fatigue when literally all the sound from my equipment is garbage to me ... the next day it sounds amazingly good if I am rested.
In particular, I do not resist the high mids, the most damaging area of the treble (4-8k) for a long time ... Nor the 200hz emphasis produced by the acoustics in my room. So I apply a slight equalization of -5db in these frequencies to balance the overall sound.
I try to listen at medium volume at a distance of no more than 2 m from the speakers to avoid sound reflections.
I prefer the noise from the surface of a vinyl (reminds me of the crackle of burning wood) to digital sound compression devices. The abuse and lack of dynamics of modern recordings makes the experience of listening to music more exhausting
Have had the same exact experience. To the point of me swearing I have a tweeter that is not working correctly. I have 2 sets of the same speakers so I move to a different room and realize it has to be me. 2 days off and then I am good to go again. If I am going to listen to CDs; I must do it before I listen to vinyl or high res samples. I can't go backwards during the same listening session.
Interesting! I see you are perfectly aware of what is disturbing your listening experience, good job!
Interesting!
A cause of listening fatigue is all the ads on UA-cam!
And the other half nagging 🤯
That also fall under the category of not setting your gear up correctly. In this case adding an Ad blocker can fix this problem.
Bad mastering also gives me "listening fatigue"! Sometimes when something's on my mind, it'll hit me! Listening fatigue happens mostly with CDs than LPs, but like I said , sometimes bad mastering!
EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I listened to mainly rock music but new audiophiles who had broad tastes and open minds when it comes to music help open my mind to music . I got my love,of classical music from my mother who would listen to Wagner's music . Jazz ,rock ,funk , pop, dub ,house, heavy metal , ambient, industrial, blue grass , country ,hip hop , krautrock ,salsa ,folk , chinese tradional music , Arabic. It's all good .
I have found that listening fatigue happens when you listen to your system too much. You get used to the sonic characteristics of your speakers/system and they just don't have that "magic" anymore. Simple fix. STOP LISTENING TO YOUR SYSTEM! Go away for for a day or too, then come back and hear the difference. ANA[DIA]LOG glossed over this a bit, but it is the truth. I think it is one of the main reasons (if not the most important) for the cause of "listening fatigue".
Once I experienced a very strange fatique after listening for only half an hour to a flac of Benny Goodman's 1938 Carnegie Hall Concert I found on archive.org. It was recorded by someone from a record of the 1950's and presumingly in 96khz.... Well, problem is neither the records of the 1950's nor the microphones that they used to record the concert in 1938, nor the audio tape it was recorded on were capable of reproducing 96khz. Therefore most of the audio signal in this flac was just junk: Noises from the uncleaned record (you could hear every tiny bit of dust on it), the scratching of the needle (I think it was the wrong player for that record), and other issues. I couldn't find any information about the microphone used at Carnegie Hall back in 1938, but assumed after some research that most likely it could not record above 8000hz - so I shamelessly cut away every frequencies above that and recorded it on a TDK type I cassette with Dolby B enabled. What looks like a horrible frankenstein method (it is!), actually worked out pretty good. I really enjoy listening to the result. Still, of course, I would like to get my hands on a original record from the 1950's or at least a good CD of that concert. But for now it's ok.
What I learned from that experience is, that wrongly encoded digital music files can cause unwanted fatique! It makes no sense to encode a flac to 96khz, or even 48khz, when the original audio source was not recorded with microphones, that are actually capable of catching all the sounds and ultrasounds.
Actually, you just pointed out what I have said on other forums and posts. 24bit 96k or above doesn't do much to improve the sound quality from any recordings. It comes down to "how they are mastered"! Even the latest music with the latest recording equipment can sound like crap if it is not mastered properly for the right format. Vinyl must bet mastered for vinyl. CD must be mastered for CD. And ESPECIALLY, HiRes must be mastered for HiRes. Old music tracks can be up mastered (not up sampled) to the higher range response if you go back to the original masters and not filter anything. You just essentually remastered a HiRes file (which I question if is was really HiRes) down to a filtered version that has better sonic characteristics.
I experience this when listening to low-fi stuff, i.e. 64kbit/s MP3 or AM radio. I never listen to music on high volume on speakers, only on my headphones. Doing this for a long period of time makes the music very dull and it does appear to get more silent every minute.
Trying to listen to your talk while you played background music was very fatiguing. Excellent way to demonstrate! Well done.
😂 I actually did think about that but in the end I left a very low volume!
@@anadialog Funny! When I first noticed it I thought I had two videos playing at once. Once I realized it was coming from your video I thought it was a great object lesson, and kept waiting you to mention it. Thanks for creating interesting content.
This is an under rated issue. We always talk about sound stage and recreating the music as if it is played in our living room. That can not be done but important is to create a stereo set up that does not lead to listening fatigue. It could well be that audiophiles who start tweaking their gear by adding cables and such are suffering from listening fatigue. Perhaps the real definition of an audiophile is "a music lover with a low listening fatigue threshold".
True!
Great point
I think that frequency variety is the culprit, too. If a few hours of The Carter Family or Aerosmith starts to annoy, try listening to something very different in your library, which will likely be a sort of palate cleanser for your ears and brain, different frequencies might stimulate the ear in a fresh way while giving your ears a break from the same frequency marathon of your previous choice of binge listening. Another reason could be speakers causing your frequency fatigue. Different manufacturers make speakers that can sound noticeably different from other manufacturers, because they emphasize different frequencies. Maybe your amp lets you choose different speakers? Sometimes you can play set A, other times set B, or maybe both A and B at the same time, for a little more variety.
Genre rotation does help!
Another cause is the so called solid state sound ,harsh and overly bright, which is why some companies try to make their solid state amps sound like a tube amp. Still another is an under powered amp , while most of the music may not clipped many of the transients are due to lack of head room. Also the type of distortion matters as tube amps produce even order harmonic distortion that is not fatiguing where as solid state amps produce odd order harmonics that are fatiguing.
Sometimes i just dont feel like listening, and if my heart just isn't in it, i won't enjoy it so i don't turn it on.
Same
Perfect timing for that video. I started suffering this a month ago. Great to hear you have done some research. Very handy. I am trying to take things quiteter for some time now.
Sorry to hear that. Did you understand the main reason or reasons?
@@anadialog I guess it is mainly overload. TV and stereo at home, radio in car, earpods at work and late at night. Of course getting into hifi gear in the last two years has added to all this. It went real bad three weeks ago, now I am slowly getting better.
What I honestly can say is that fatigue comes faster when I listen to CD´s instead of vinyl.
And a big reason for that is analog has zero timing errors and digital is plagued with it. It’s gotten better, but many OS dacs have horrible timing if directly compared to analog recordings.
I recently upgraded my cd player, finally I can enjoy the music very close to vinyl sounding, I use a Marantz cd6000ose ki signature with digital coax to my topping d30 DAC.. sounds incredible imo
I switch to a different type of music i mix it up a bit when i feel the fatigue. Some times trying music you never though you might like its a great way to get back into it quick.
Brickwall mastered modern CDs that have absolute no dynamics anymore in the sound give me listening fatigue. Loudness war sucks.
I agree!
That's what vinyl is for 👍
When the CD is brickwalled, buy the equivalent record, that solves it - most of the times.
why worry about Brickwall mastered modern CDs or Loudness war? just get yourself a DVD version, problem solved. There is many back catalog Album released on DVD format e.g Eric Clapton Unplugged DVD (The Best Dynamic Range Recording Ever on 1992). Rattle and Hum-U2 (The Best Analog Tape Recording ADD transfer on 1988!), ROY ORBISON - Black & White Night(The Best full Digital Recording DDD transfer on 1988!) , but be warned , it might change your music perception forever. Most DVD format SPARS Code : ADD or DDD.
It's the CD audio and LP vinyl record you need to avoid here. Most vinyl record SPARS Code : AAA and CD audio are SPARS Code : AAD. You need SPARS Code with DDD to achieve audiophile quality. e.g Dire Straits
- Brothers in Arms DVD(1985) is DDD! ($200- selling in ebay now!)DIRE STRATS
Album: Brothers in Arms was recorded in 1985 using Sony PCM-3324 DASH Digital Tape Recorder costing $150,000! This is 24 tracks digital recorder on 1/2" wide tape! that incredible! Just listen to this song Dire Straits - Your Latest Trick
ua-cam.com/video/NtfxHfoxExc/v-deo.html
@@QoraxAudio do they even do a separate master-mix for vinyl anymore?
I thought they just cut it from a single digital master.
@@monetize_this8330 Yes it's often adapted for vinyl, so that you don't have things like inner groove distortion.
Sometimes, even the order of the tracks is changed for vinyl, so that the loudest tracks are on the first half of both sides.
Whether the master is digital or analog doesn't really matter in my opinion, as long as both are high quality.
For example, the digitized masters in the Sony DSD archive capture the all properties of the original analog tape very well.
I had an Emotiva CD player and an Emotiva preamp that gave me serious listening fatigue. The CD player actually at moderate levels was so bright that it caused pain to my ears and headaches. Even at low levels, which made it more tolerant, but I still could listen to either for long periods.
The preamp was their first generation. The amp was much better and I used it along with my Audio Research Vt100 mini to maintain the tube life, but I missed the Audio Research when it wasn't in the system.
I eventually sold all of my Emotiva gear and replaced it all with Audio Research. With my current system I made a very stupid mistake with my Vandersteen crossovers and had a couple of switches in the crossovers reversed, which practically killed the treble, which caused listening fatigue on a different level and caused me not to listen to my favorite Audiophile pressings.
I fixed that last week and I have been more than happy and the bass is even better and the treble is like it was when I auditioned the speakers in the store.
I have listening fatigue with my car factory stereo when I listen to loud as well, I get ear ringing, so listening fatigue is real. I have a two devices coming in two days that you would like, the first one is a Acoustical System Smart Tractor, which is an advanced protractor, glass based with engraved points on the glass and an arm and point for the pivot point with a loupe to actually see where the cartridge is, so I can't wait. I also have a Sweet Water Sugar Cube vinyl de-clicker, SC-1 coming on the same order, it removes pops from records on the fly. Also an improperly set up turntable, which over produces the treble or bass due to vta and those SS produced when your alignment is off can also cause listening fatigue.
I know that you are primarily an analog guy but have you checked out what is going on with the newer Blue Tooth spec Ldac, which you can use your cellphone for. I was watching Thomas and Stereo and he had the IFI Zen Blue, HiRes Bluetooth Dac and he thought it was pretty good.
I know you are constantly on the hunt for new tech. I decided to give this a try because of the results I got with a integrated bedroom amp called the Rotel RA-1572, which has a built in Bluetooth Adapter.
I used the codec AptX and I was quite impressed with what I got with it and a pair of Bower and Wilkins CM5 Book shelf speakers. I ordered the device and it arrived yesterday and I hooked it up both with analogue and digital through coaxial and using a UA-cam channels by the name of Audiophile NBR Music and Sound master with the Let Test Bass Sound Your Audio System.
I was very impressed, there is a ton of percussions here and I’m running it coaxial through my Audio Research Dac 8 and through its own analogue and Dac. This little device is pretty amazing for what it does and I don’t know what type of mics those two channels are using but the sound quality is quite good.
To get the best sound, if you have an Android phone, you have to go into your phones Developer mode and enable LDAC for the highest quality or AptX or AptX Hd if your device doesn’t support it. My IPad supports AptX.
My cellphone is a Samsung S8 plus and I can walk around the whole first floor and both bathrooms and bedrooms and not break the Bluetooth signal. Bluetooth is definitely getting better here. If you can reach out to IFI or your local Audio store and bring this in for a review, I think you might like it.
Hey Sid! Thanks for sharing your experience and for your bluetooth suggestion. Indeed things are getting better and better, in fact, as I mentioned in my High-res video, we know have a wireless high-res certification and the device you are talking about seems to go in that direction!
Glad to see I'm not the only one. One day something sounds smooth as butter the next day may sound harsh.
I think that anxiety and stress may contribute. I wonder whether our brains/hearing have evolved to boost attentiveness to high frequencies when stressed. Our hunter-gatherer selves (humans have spent 90% of their existence on earth as hunter-gatherers) needed to hear the twigs cracking if an animal or human foe was nearby, or the rustle of a predator etc. We really haven't evolved much past that yet. So when we are stressed today the same effect may occur - and our brains are distorting the audio so that certain frequencies are perceived differently or more prominently. I think even vague background noise also contributes. Our brains are processing all exterior sounds all the time. If our hearing is OK we can pick out individual conversations in a crowded noisy space. Our brain is 'processing out' the other noise but it is still present. The fewer the background sounds the less work our brains have to do. Is that why audio systems often sound better late at night? Less traffic/external machine sounds/etc? I think psychology has a lot of impact on listening fatigue.
Great comment! I agree also with your last phrase.
3 things create listening fatigue for me 1, boomy bass 2, the range between 1k - 3k causes the most listening fatigue this is a range the ears are most sensitive to. I always drop this range down a couple db. fatigue is gone. 3, having you speakers too close to the walls especially the side wall.
Radio stations playing pop music. They add compression to the entire audio chain, even the DJs sound "in yer face"
I must say.. you have quite a nice sounding voice yourself, not fatiguing at all. You have great room acoustics, although you have these stacks upon stacks of cd's! How do you do that!?
Thanks! Stacks of stuff helps braking up the sound and reduce harsh reverb!
I seem to suffer this fatigue on occasion whenever I listen to digitally mastered recordings, particularly anything instrumentally focused, like Jazz or Classical. They sound distinctly harsh compared to the original analogue recordings, from the few comparisons I've made so far.
"Un-natural sound." You have perfectly described my listening fatigue. I have three albums. Sarah Vaughan, Dinah Washington and Nina Simone, all of whom I love. These discs have only the left channel with their voices, not the right channel. I couldn't listen to them. I really couldn't. That's "un-natural sound."
Did you try summing the channels or hitting the mono switch on your pre-amp? I don't mind records like this; but I can see how it could be disorienting.
Yes, I perfectly understand! I have tye Nina Simone album and others recorded that way. It is distracting at the least.
@@EdLawless My TT has a pre-amp built into it. There is a switch you can turn the pre-amp off if you have an external one. My receiver does not have a mono/stereo switch. I have got a lot of mono records, I purchased a mono cartridge (it really does help). In the brochure it says this cart is only for playing mono recordings. Anyways, I am considering playing them on a mono cart. I researched it. Some guys say that is O.K. Some guys say that it's not O.K. .6 mil. conical. TF 2.5 g. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Have a good weekend.
@@anadialog Especially if I'm listening to it on headphones. What Nina Simone album do you have? I have "The Hits," New Continent Records, 2017, 180 gram.
I have several but the one I have in mind is Little Girl Blue by Analogue Productions.
i have a kef R3 pair now, switching from some cheap towers, but those new ones cause me listening fatigue especially with commercial music. I'm listening to only hifi versions on Tidal. I'm not sure yet which is the reason, maybe poor recordings, too analytical compared to my previous, too bright, more reflections, too much stereo (it s like the sound is going back and forth too much between the speakers, or like somebody is changing the volume continuously). I also noticed the fatigue/annoyance is present when the songs are more dynamic, if i m listening to slow paced rhythm i can tolerate it more, anyway i can then continue my listening session for hours on my Philips x2hr headphones, and it makes me to no longer want to turn on my speakers again...
Interesting...sorry to hear that!
Yeah, mp3 and 32 bit DATs I recorded back in the early 90s are unlistenable.
@Jingle Nuts Ogg from about 205k to 440k replaces ACC for me -ACC is just mp2 with enhancements -and its all bass and voice and the added part is treble -fatigue , you get a cd copy but worse -ogg at 440 catches the "air" that might be prestent so does it as 205..maybe
Very well thought out presentation on a difficult to pin down problem. Can I add one somewhat left field suggestion. You say “anything unnatural” will cause fatigue. Turning things on its head, music itself is not “natural” - compared to, say, human voices, bird song, or the sound of running water - and HiFi is a step away from music, being a reproduction of it. The sound of musical instruments, music itself, and then HiFi which reproduces it, are all “learned” sounds. A HiFi feels natural to us if it corresponds to the sounds we have learned at a young age. So, for example, if in our early childhood we are exposed to our parents’ music setup, we will learn that sound, and it will be pleasing. Music that deviates from that, may not sound pleasing, including the more real sound of live music from a band. The opposite may also be true - Hifi, even a good one, may not sound pleasing to someone who experienced mostly live music as a very young child. Therefore, fatigue may be due to a sound system that does not match what we grew up with, which will be different to each person. The conclusion therefore is that all factors will be individual - room acoustics, tonality, distortion etc, depending on our earliest sound experiences. This also would explain why some people love vinyl more than others. Just a thought...
Exactly, music listening is always a little fatiguing because its a reproduction. In fact, real music is much more easy to listen.
Resonance is my #1 cause, and that's why I make speakers with the least resonance possible. lol
For me happens when I listen to my equipment too much instead of simply enjoy the music
I see people are complaining about compression.. first off all , most of audiophile amps and speakers like sound on steroids with high gain .. high sensitivity.. high input signal DACs ... weird materials speakers and power cables ...tuning rabbit hole.. etc .. 90% of the audiophiles doing same mistakes through this journey..
I get visual fatigue when I watch this video, or at least I get very distracted from the intended content of the video. A tip for future videos, make sure the light direction from your lamp is calibrated not to reflect the surface of your glasses directly into the lens of your recording device. Either change the angle horizontally or vertically. Make a short test and you're good to go.
Hay, great video, I'm still watching, but you ask... "So what are we could say the main causes that bring this type of fatigue?". My answer, and perhaps the most obvious, LOUD LOUD LOUD MASTERING REMASTERING, and MORE REMASTERING!!!!!!!!!!!!. Yes I know, I shouted it, but that's exactly what brings fatigue and kills my ears. A louidly mastered song within the first 20 seconds already makes my head explode, and one just feels violent. To get around these issues now, I play my music through a program with a compression plugin that at least greatly reduces the harshness of loudly mastered tracks. One now only dreams of how CDs were mastered back in the 80s. :(
Indeed!!
I have a pair of full range stereo speakers on my PC, where i listen to music switching between Spotify, UA-cam, CDs through WMP, and FLAC files on occasion. I set my default output format to 48khz and 24bits on the speakers sound settings. I wanted to know if it should be set lower or to leave it like that, considering most streaming services don't go above 44.1khz and 16bits, as well as CDs. Maybe the upsampling of higher frequencies also causes listening fatigue, but i might be wrong.
Updampling may help quantization noise but it really depends on each circuit so just test which one sounds beat to YOU.
regularly listend to music on earphones. Yesterday after listening to
music on earphones for sometimes my ear feels very weird. I can hear
sounds perfectly but at the same time it feels like something is in my
ear. I dont know how to explain exactly but it feels very weird feels
like my ear lost somekind of sensiivity.I wonder if it is listening
fatigue?
Hi man, great video, as usual!!! :D
I'm into digital music because I've travelled around the globe for about 25 years and used to use MP3 music (which most of the time is not that good) but now that I settled back in Italy I'd like to build my true hires music library without having to spend all the money I would need to spend with vinyls. Therefore I've subscribed to HDtracks and Qobuz.
So I would like to ask you a question, are there any outdoor active speakers (I'm not interested in 100,000 watts but a clean, three-dimensional sound) to use with 96 kHz/24 bit liquid lossless audio, in a small environment like a garden? And would it be better if the speakers, for best music quality, arrives at a maximum range of 45/48kHz?
I would like to spend around 500 euros per speaker...
Thanks so much!!!!!!!!
Unfortunately I don't have a true suggestion. I do love my Marshall Kilbourne, but it's a standalone speaker. Otherwise the Polk atrium 6 looks interesting, but never tried them.
@@anadialog ok thank you heaps!!! ;)
I think also our personal physical state can affect our listening experience. For example, if l've just come from a long day at work, l sometimes find myself yawning or even dozing off when listening to music l've enjoyed before, and l haven't changed any system settings either. And then of course, when l have a headache, cold or allergies, it can also be difficult to get into the sound.
True, but at that point it ain't the music, you are already exhausted. I feel the same many times after work.
You are so right it had happen to me I stop listening to music for a while in analog style my equipment don't sound the same to me is weird n all my hight end tape deck got mess up on me especially my revox 215 😭😭😭😭😭😭 love the way that tape deck sound n record on my equipment I'm looking for someone that know how to fix them I know I will pay a lot I don't care as long they fix it I think it need lubricant n clean up everything works it just the tape deck play slow it could be anything but it rewind n forward n play just sound slow then it stop some tape it will play some tape will not omg my baby got sick after all this years was working fine my first time it have problem it sound so fresh n mine other decks too got mess up is like I'm having bad luck all that is going to cost me I know that when I find the right person that know how to fix those tape deck I don't want to give it to anybody that don't know what they doing 😭😭😭😭😭😭😭 my baby
Analog recordings have zero timing issues. So time domain is key. Digital devices are more often than not with poor time domain or poor timing. Which is the main or most common fatigue imo. Many prefer analog sound for this exact reason. Cd’s were horrid when they first came out and still not that great.
Thanks! Very interesting!
How long does it take to recover from this fatigue? I'm curious...
In my experience a couple of hours or less...
Over compressed studio masterings cause a lot of fatique...loudness war
Indeed!
This is a very good video. Especially listening environment is often overlooked by others.
In my opinion, the main fatiguing issues are sibilance and too much highs.
Especially sibilant cartridges can be very, very tiring.
With MM cartridges, the loading capacitance can be used to take the sharp edges off.
Just a tip: I think the groomed goatee-style beard you had at your first videos was better then the fluffyness you have now 😜
Thanks! Coming from one of my most demanding subscribers that doubles the compliment for me!
Ahahah! Too fluffy? Perhaps that is the after shower effect!
@@anadialog Haha the after shower effect, that's new to me! 😄
Yes, like SpongeBob!
The other thing is top 40 radio music . If your record collection has top 40 music it will get boring real quick . The other is Muzak . Please don't confuse Muzak with Ambient because they are different beasts .
When I listen to CD audio i'll get fatigued, when I switch to DVD audio i could listen whole day. I don't know why. Anyone here experience the same?
Well, DVD-AUDIO is among T-H-E best digital formats around! I'll bet ya it sounds good!
One of my listening fatigue is tinninus when it go too strong it drive me nuts.
I really notice listening fatigue with headphones, I can only use them for a couple of hours max, does anyone else experience this?
I think this is due to the upfront factor. Have you tried open back headphones?
@@anadialog I have a while ago, some of it may be discomfort from wearing them, needless to say I don't use them very much
i regularly listend to music on earphones. Yesterday after listening to music on earphones for sometimes my ear feels very weird. I can hear sounds perfectly but at the same time it feels like something is in my ear. I dont know how to explain exactly but it feels very weird feels like my ear lost somekind of sensiivity.I wonder if it is listening fatigue?
I felt hit by no. 2 listening to this.
I felt the background-music disturbing as your voice also seemed quite low. (bad S/N ratio).
Listening on headphones in a quiet environment.
Grazie,,👍
bad mastering, shitty dacs, and speakers that go above 20khz all give me listening fatigue
Stop compressing CDs and new Fake vinyl! Save the music in phisique format. Streaming is the reunion of compressing.
@@Poguesong i dont stream, i use cds (aad preferred), tapes, and records.
Un pó di tempo fa ho acquistato dei diffusori abbastanza grandi, e all'inizio la goduria è stata totale, miles davis sembrava proprio li davanti a me, era come se venisse tutti i giorni a suonare a casa mia...
Ma dopo un mese, sentire nel mio salotto uno che suona la tromba (anche se é miles davis) ha iniziato a rompermi i coglioni, alla fine ho cambiato i diffusori e li ho presi più piccoli...
Quando i suoni sono troppo reali, a me dopo un pò danno fastidio, la musica dal vivo é bellissima ma, secondo me, va presa a piccole dosi.
Un punto di vista interessante, soprattutto per il fatto che è davvero passato ad un sistema ridotto per così dire, e forse anche comprensibile...ma non potrei fare ridurre la fedeltà, posso e voglio solo incrementarla. Quando sono in modalità relax basta abbassare il volume.
I found that a glass of premium rhum helps
Oops you said it out loud “Listening to our equipment”
😂
Over-compressed "music", such as, edm and hiphop or other electronic genres.
poorly designed audio equipment dac headphenes alsa some pc motherboards are affected by this
country music will cause me to have listening fatigue
it's easier on the ears if you live near a swamp.
Another : Tinnitus
And ofc Cerwin Vega and Bose.🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣😎😎
Klipsch and Bose are the last speakers I'd ever buy.
thousands of pounds dollars are wasted because of this blaming the system and not the fatigue .also try 432hz
Good point.
The beards getting very bushy...😁
I guess so...already two of you said this! ;-)
God have mercy on u through Christ