China never banned Google or Facebook but they need to comply with censorship requirements which the 2 companies did not want to comply. No issue of banning arises.
@Infovest you mean microsoft & apple are evil companies? why not go to sue them? And do you forget PRISM project? you mean FB and Google collected the data of the whole world for the US gov to protect "free expression"? what a joke!
@@cvasquez601 well every country has it set of rules and tradition I have many Chinese friends and they seems to be never complain anything with their governments But If I live there hell I will complain a lot The conclusion is different country different people different rules I respect that as long as they're happy that's okay
As a western-educated Chinese, I have higher-education degrees from mainland China, United Kingdom (Mphil), United States (PHD) and Hong Kong (PHD). I have stayed in both "western" and "eastern" countries for many years and met a lot of friends from both "sides". To be honest, I love Google (a great company and I do respect their motto ’Don't be evil‘) and I use(d) iphones (although I have changed to HUAWEI P30PRO now, just for its great cameras, nothing about patriotism). However, it is not fair to compare China's "BAN" on google/youtube/facebook to US's "BAN" on HUAWEI. China's ban is only effective within the mainland China and China did not ask its alliances/companies to ban google/youtube. For comparison, the US has banned HUAWEI from selling its phones within US years ago, and nobody said anything. But now it is a different case, the US is not just banning HUAWEI from doing business in the US, it is banning HUAWEI from doing business at ALL. Again, I am not saying China's ban on google was a good thing, but US's move is just worse. BTW, US companies like apple and Microsoft are happily doing business in China for many years regardless the China's so-called BAN.
the thing is, that china bans american companies doing business (NOT MANUFACTURING AND DOING BACKGROUND STUFF, JUST CONSUMER BUSINESS) only affects china... america banning ALL AMERICAN COMPANIES to do business with china affects all of us... huawei wasnt really doing consumer business in the states before anyways... people need to grasp the idea of this... you too Jaime... edit: yes, firewalled, not banned, but still, what i said is true, it does not affects other countries, manufacturing, or anything outside china
Also the American cultural mindset already banned all China businesses in American for 'untrustworthy', 'cheap product that breaks', 'jobs stealers', etc.
They can't use Android with Google services on Android anymore. That is a big deal for tons and tons of their European consumers. Plus, while they aren't huge in the smartphone market here, there are millions of Americans that do have Hauwei devices and will be affected by this especially because they can't get anymore security updates and major Android releases.
@@sivyisvaj8054 WTF are you on about? Who the hell are you to call other people devils. And WTF is jesus to me? Dude I'm African pure African. I only praise God and my Ancestors not phones or nationalities so F.off this is not a platform or the right person to be racist with you stupid idiot.
Isn't it strange that gave huawei 90 days? The United States has said huawei poses a national security threat and has declared a state of emergency. So how can you give such a dangerous enemy 90 days?
People can change. The old adage says every saint has a past and every sinner has a future. The Chinese are quick learners, in 90 days time the US will turn all Chinese into saints.
FYI, the banning of Google, Facebook etc. in China is simply because these companies refused to accept Chinese law. You may not agree with these laws but its their law.
@@keiming2277 if that is the case then why need an executive order, just take them to court, and worse since US is only targeting 1 Chinese company. And why pressuring other countries to do the same?
@@Pegie98 you don't seem to understand, Google refused to accept Chinese law, Huawei accepts US laws but its ban anyway. Trump is a truely abusing the rule of law in the US by circumventing it.
@@tonyatgoogle6076 First, good luck inviting the Founder of Huawei to US court. Second, it's trade war tactics,just like China One Belt One Road tactics, it's all about what allies you can get
This is not about Huawei, or smart phone industry. It's about trade war between the two countries. Huawai just happen to be in the way of the crossfire.
@@hectorg.7282 To answer your question, there are other Chinese companies and personals banned by Trump. ZTE was one of them. Huawei is taking all the news headlines, 5G, Kirin chipset, flagship cell phones, etc. Obama won't mind it, but Trump won't accept Huawei's rise. Anyway, it's doomed. Thx for reading my comments
It about 5g the more us networks sold around the world that do have backdoors for NSA the better for us. Trump us ban was in hopes to stop Huawei 5g but there 5g products are safe so now he saying use it to get better trade deal with china. China wont budge since china wants 50/50 deal.
@@wiltryga7904 Yep, the nature of Chinese gov is promoting peace, unlike some shitty USA gov who promotes war and death all the time. USA looks like the Nazi of the 21st century. Oh, worse than Nazi because USA gov is also a super jealous axxhole.
That’s can’t be guaranteed cuz android is googles baby and which means it’s American so huawei could be stopped from running android apps as well or face huge fees
@@kongwee1978 u need a license to sell it. U can get it for your own phone but selling is a different thing. To stop illegal use is change how software runs on android.
According to the US law, American companies should upload data and customer's info back to the US GOV when the US GOV requires，including the data and customer's info from the servers of overseas. But this situation is totally against Chinese's law. So Google choose to quit. Period.
John Zhang More accurately, companies like Google chose to quit entering Chinese market because they do not want to abide by Chinese law. Google is fine with providing info to US government but not to Chinese government, even when it is on Chinese land. But in my opinion, it is justifiable for any country to request that info be available to the government within their own territory in dire situations for example when it is a matter of security or when there are criminal and drug activities, etc. The US is practicing double standards; only the US can demand private data be accessed when concerning “national security”, no other country is allowed.
China has been blocking and controlling who does what business and how in their country. Problem here is that the US is kind of blocking Huawei to do business with other countries without their success. And long term killing the Android strangled hold, is probably more interesting and better for the consumer, I can’t see how it’s good for the consumer though. Also for people wanting in on the China market will have to start innovating outside the US, so they can do business in both markets. Could be good for Europe if they jump on the opportunity now.
@@hectorg.7282 Most people comment without having a clue of the situation. The US have been stealing tech and bankrupting other countries' companies for decades now, it just was not made the focal point by the media. Trump is defending it for political gain which is why he made it part of his reality show. The fact is that the American government is using Huawei as a front to blackmail secrets from other countries. They just got caught because they out-performed others. There is proof (I hate how all these stupid people keep saying there isn't), it is being made public but that didn't open the floodgates for others to do the same. It's also a tactic to let the enemy know exactly what was afraid, and now the enemy can tell all the intel collected on whether it is reliable or not (espionage 101).
@StrategicFooyoo You underestimate the complexity of semiconductors, Not something you can just figure out in a year. That's not their only problem, They also can't do expandable storage which is very popular in china.
@@Notha320 I mean, what do you expect? I'm still waiting for the alleged Weapons of Mass Destruction evidence from operation Iraqi Freedom for more than a decade. Still no evidence yet the country is fucked to the ground anyway. How do you think the US know, people can use tech for espionage purposes if not because they have been doing it as well, for a long period of time. The US is pretty advance in these sort of game.
Trump has the audacity to trample all over our intelligence. He calla Huawei dangerous and *right behind it* states that he is willing to "make a deal" with them. A deal supersedes being "dangerous". This as about posturing....nothing else.
the myth：China ban US companies. No, China didn't ban Google, Facebook, tweeter, it was that they didn't want to comply with Chinese law (yes, censorship requirements, is it good or bad, how it works that is for another day), then they exited the market, Microsoft, LinkedIn and some other US Internet businesses are doing OK in China, because they complied. Huawei was not offered any option to be in compliance. That is the difference.
There’s one thing wrong in your video. China never blocked google, it was google quit Chinese market by itself in 2010. We still have the google building in Beijing now.
You have made a mistake. Google and Facebook don't enter China because they are not willing to abide by Chinese laws. They hope that US laws will be implemented in Chinese, such as share the data of chinese customers to us gov. Huawei is not only because the United States does not allow him to enter. There is an essential difference.
Jaime : I'm not here to defend Huawei.....proceeds to defend them for over 9 min. as much as I like their products, Huawei is a front for the Chinese government, and no company can be that big in china unless they're tied to the government. China bans a lot of US competition like Facebook and Google, so its only right that the US does the same. I'm not saying that the US is the moral leader especially when it comes to spying, but its just two dirty bastards playing Marco Polo with each other.
A front for the Chinese government? any proof? or are you just going to sit behind your computer talking shit and please don't use articles written by CNN or Fox as proof.......
And also, huawei is not know of their phones here in asia. They are known because of their equipments in cellsites. Just like nokia, they got rich not because of the phones. They have even a cloud drives. US just lost the technology of huawei. It’s not Huawei’s lost, its US lost.
Google used to in China a few years ago. But they didn't want to abide Chinese law. So they were asked to leave. Now seems it is wise move. Google did work for US government.
CHINA DID NOT BLOCK THEM. THEY LEFT THEMSELVES. YOU NEED TO FOLLOW THE LAW OF EVERY COUNTRY TO DO BUSINESS THERE. IF THEY FOLLOW THE RULES THEY CAN OPERATE IN CHINA.
@Infovest OFFICIALLY THEY ARE NOT BANNED. JUST FOLLOW THE RULES, EVERY COUNTRY HAVE IT'S RULES. MICROSOFT/BING HAVE ZERO PROBLEMS IN CHINA... WHY? CAUSE THEY FOLLOW THE RULES.
I don't think the Huawei ban is baseless, but I do think the current ban should be scaled back. People seem to think they are innocent but in the past have stolen tech from companies, not sure if it was proven
@EZEKIEL no I understand you think hauwei should have the same rights as a citizen, they are not even a US company. At least that is the example you gave O can't help it if you meant something else
Some details on the China banning other internet services (I am not saying is was fair, just to provide more information), technically China does not ban US companies from running internet services, there are several restrictions though: 1. The servers must be located in China; 2. Those companies have to form joint ventures for operating in China (just like Azure China is operating independently from Azure international); 3. Self-censorship is required for those service providers and that is actually a huge part, and you have to comply management of related government departments (just like other domestic services). Google actually quit Chinese market themselves because they can not stand with those laws & regulations anymore.
I think he said the word "Huawei" more times than his name in this video. This is the first time this strange phenomenon has occurred. I am in shock and don't know what to do. 😱
huawei will prevail . They will become dominant. Id like to mention. and share my tweet to google concerning my warranty on my mate20: "@Google you just ruined my huawei phone experience. Not only did you pull your support after 3 months. you now destroyed the consumer warranty and experience. what is your solution to satisfy the digital consumers you promised security and performance? #lawyer please " 4:38 AM - 26 May 2019
First of all, I am Chinese. I certainly do not agree that you mix the ban of FB, Twitter, google and etc. up with Huawei Ban. The reason why we ban those social media in CHINA is that they do not Obey our rules. Now, let’s see Huawei. Does Huawei violate any rules of the United States. If it does, please prove me. You cannot mix the two things up, just because they are all related to ‘BAN’. The concepts are totally different. No offense, but if you want to prove something, use a correct reference please.
i do believe that this whole scenario is better for huawei. It will surely take time but if they design and manufacture a lot of things themselves and make new linux based O.S that can also run android apps with the close help of the chinese government, huawei might just be the biggest tech company ever
I have a mate 20 pro and it is anweosme phone and I love the invation of Huawei but cone on they are not some innocent victim. Do you remember their Cisco suit or t mobile? Get the facts out before you sympathize with them.
In my opinion, this ban will open up new doors for tech developers to come up with a new OS. The U.S is worried about the fast growth of the Chinese Tech Industries which are eating up their markets, especially PC's and Smartphones. Apple sales dropped so badly since 2018 and unable to recover because of their prices are almost double than the Chinese products. This trade war is not only about Huawei, but it is also about The U.S Vs China Hi-Tech global domination. I see the U.S as greedy and jealous of China. The trade war between both will surely divide consumers and I will choose to go with China because they are innocent. The U.S is behaving or dreaming as if they own the world WHAT A SHAME! maybe I'm lost, are we in the bronze ages? Have respect for other nations
I've been trying to use Android without Google Play Services and it's a nightmare. Sure, Android is Open Source, but AOSP is not Android as we think of it at this point. Google has effectively locked in developers to their proprietary APIs. Say what you will about iMessage lock-in, Google lock-in is much more problematic for all of us.
Google has withdrawn from China because of its refusal to comply with Chinese law, and Facebook is the same. Google is a company that fully abides by the US government, so it is a hitter of American hegemony. Have you ever thought that if your country and the United States are in friction, Trump orders Google to ban it from offering to your country? Is this a hegemony?
Yes, its fair Jaime. I'm sure we tell our kids the same thing. "I don't care what johnny does in his home. This is what we do in our home." Just because these are US companies doesn't mean they get to do what they want in another sovereign country. They know the rules of the game there. Play by them. Don't complain to another ref in another league.
Huawei is using US conceived software and hardware to sell their product and was gaining , lately , very much very fast on the market .So americans decided to screw them , is that bad ? Well , in business and love anything goes so , maybe chinese companies should , before racing to sell anything , to plan ahead more carefully .
@@afgaggheh I know about it. But people aren't gonna use something called "hongmeng" anyway, remember the rest of the world aren't geeks and go buy looks and names
@@Ali___ Hey, Never say never. 3 years ago, when I first get to know Huawei as a Chinese phone brand, I told myself that I would never even intend to try a Huawei phone, but today I am currently using a Huawei P20 Pro.
I would agree with you on fairness but not this case, because America self proclaimed is a free democracy country, but this policy is more like authoritarian policy don’t you think its hypocrites for America to do this?
google, facebook, not follow China law, then they quit China Market. That is totally different. Huawei wants to follow US law to enter US, but US doesnot allowed and ban Huawei, whatever Huawei do. Because Huawei is more advanced in 5G.
Huawei already makes it's own OS called HongMeng OS, it is phone ready and can emulate Android apps. It has been in the works for almost 10 years and is open source. From perusing some of my favorite android developer sites, Huawei was intending on replacing Windows 10 on there laptops with their version of the latest iteration of HongMeng OS, could be why Microsoft doesn't like them anymore. Another big thing to note is Huawei is partially owned by the Chinese government, and China provides 80+% of the rare minerals used in chip and battery tech, wonder if china might cut off supply if the US continues their blockade.
The rare metals used in chip tech aren't as rare as you think. N. Korea has mountains of it. Even the US has mountains of it, it just chooses not to dig them up because of the environmental impact. So no, China blocking rare metals wouldn't really hurt the US. It would just make the US even less dependent on China for these materials, and that's a bad thing for China. In reality, the US buying rare metals from China is essentially a handout to China, because it allows China to operate industries that the US would otherwise compete in....and that's not something China would win in either. The US could churn out soo many rare earth metals that China would barely make a profit and start buying them from the US instead. You really don't seem to get it....the US is sitting on a continent that up until 300 years ago, was just untouched jungle. The US is one of the most resource rich nations on the planet. The US has more oil than Saudi Arabia. The US has more rare earth metals than any other country on the planet. The US has the largest amount of farmable land on the planet. And the US has access to both sides of the Atlantic and Pacific oceans, which can be utilized in various ways, from fishing to energy to shipping. So when Saudi Arabia's oil reserves run dry...guess who is still going to be chugging along? The US. The US is basically saving all of its natural resources, to the point where when every country starts running dry of theirs, the US will still have plenty. And saving those natural resources has another side effect: CLEAN ENVIRONMENT. China has already lost....it just doesn't realize it yet.
Yeah the entire country of China could end up being banned from windows operating system cuz Microsoft is an American company so then basically China wouldn’t even have computers at all anymore
If the MateBook X Pro already has Windows installed, then you are fine. Only stuff that hasn't come out yet is in question. But anything release prior to ban is still good.
If you said that the Kirin processor is "U.S. technology", then you were sadly mistaken. You're also mistaken for thinking "what if the Kirin processor dies", because the not only is the Kirin processor designed in-house by Huawei (then manufactured by TSMC) based on the ARM A8 architecture to which Huawei already has permanent rights, but Huawei has also been developing its own architecture to replace that of ARM, from the core.
we actually pretty welcome google to come in China and replace Baidu, but the thing is, Google decides not to proceed with that anymore. As for Facebook or Amazon,it’s hard to say if they can compete with WeChat or Taobao in China. Anyway thanks for the cool vid
@8:20 It is funny to listen to people trying so hard to compare US made cell phone apps not being allowed to run in China with a Chinese made cell phone not being allowed to run US cell phone apps. Current Facts: 1. China "allows" Chinese citizens to buy US made cell phones (e.g. iphones) "but not allowed" to run US made cell phone apps in China. 2. US does "not allow" US citizens to buy a Chinese made cell phone "and not allowed" that Chinese made cell phone to run US made cell phone apps. See the difference? allows but not allowed vs not allow and not allowed Therefore, isn't it fair to change the fact #1 to: 1. China does "not allows" Chinese citizens to buy a US made cell phone "and not allowed" to run US made cell phone apps in China. Well, we will see if Hauwei will eventually come up with a solution to allow customers in other countries other than US to access the so-called precious US web services without the mighty US made cell phone apps on a Chinese made cell phone.
Great video, I would clarify a point about China banning the US companies from doing business in China. The thing is, they don't actually "ban" these companies so to speak. But they do require them to follow the strict media control rules in China in order to do their business, so for things like social media and user-content websites, they need to create a filter that would censor any material which is deemed inappropriate in China, and also they would need to provide access to Chinese Government with regards to any Chinese based user information. All these American companies such as Google, Twitter, Facebook etc. cannot comply with these rules of course, not only is there enormous cost involved with setting up these operations, but they would also receive significant backlash from home if they implemented any of those measures even just for the Chinese market. I would say, the difference in this instance, is that the Chinese laws are clearly laid out, they apply to US companies and Chinese companies, and anyone else who wants to set up a business in China. They haven't changed any of them just to target a US company. While US banned Huawei on an executive order based purely on speculation, when they have not been convicted of any of these cyber security crimes. So as ridiculous as the following statement may seem, but in this particular instance, China is the one who is following the established "rule of law" when it comes to business, while Trump is using a business as a leverage in a trade negotiation. It just makes the US Government lose credibility when they want to accuse anyone else of wrongdoing (not that they've fully recovered from the whole WMD in Iraq debacle yet).
China banning Facebook and Google in their country is not the same as the U.S. blacklisting Huawei. China is not allowing Facebook and Google to be used in their country so it only effects them, but Huawei being blacklisted effects consumers all over the globe.
Ok just wait Huawei trump will leave and enovation has to continue as for sammy keep it cool love em but if Huawei gets back up im ditching sammy for a p40 pro
China never totally banned companys just certain products mainly for violatating their laws regarding censorship. If the US would just ban certain Huawei products in the US, that would be OK, but what they do is much worse.
It's unfair to compare a well developed mature market like USA and a developing immature market like China. It's like you forced a lower end buyers comply to higher end terms and conditions.
@@KHH7711 China is a market that is not well developed and mature enough and it still need some kind of protections, especially it involves 1.4 billion people. China cannot just open up the market just solely for the sake of free trade where the average Chinese are still not strong/capable enough to deal with strong or even world class trading nations that monopolized the world market.
@@KHH7711 Just imagine your ABC Coffee compete with Starbucks Coffee or Costa Coffee or your Lam & Chen burger compete with McDonald's or KFC, is it fair if both enjoy the same platforms, terms and conditions???
In important info, China's law requires these internet companied to have their data stored in China, if they run business in China. Apple China store their Icloud inside China, therefore, Apple can run in China, but google refuses, as well as twitter fb, which are sub companies of google. If they have their data (bussiness in china only) inside china, they can run in China... but they just do not want to...
With the US law, if they ban Huawei from using products designed by American firm, eg. British company, ARM is no longer allowed to sell ARM's products with American patented content in it, then it cannot be sold to Huawei. This means that when you make a product that has some American IP content, you are basically renting to use. So be aware that you are obligated to be subjected to American sanctions if you misbehave in american's eyes.
Err, China didn't technically ban Google etc. Google didn't comply with the rules on blocking certain websites, search words, etc so they cant enter the market. Apparently, they only follow the rules in their country of origin.
Trump building a wall around Huawei but a wall can be teared down with either a big bang or brick by brick, Huawei will come back stronger and better than before
China does allow google/facebook to do business in the country, but there are some rules, like the servers must be located in China, and certain censorship must be imposed, therefore google/facebook servers outside China are blocked. Google China chose to leave in 2009, and before that they had a hard time competing with Chinese local search engine Baidu. That's it.
china does not allow any western company to list in their stock market, but we let China companies to list under our stock market. Its time to get fair. I'm glad Huawei is getting a taste of it's own medicine.
I really admire the Huawei's CEO on his interview, he's so humble and very calm in taking the situation. It.s like the saying, if someone throws a stone at you, throws him a piece of bread.. and if they will continue banning Huawei in the US, they might get left behind as to what Huawei might do in the future.. nevertheless..
China never banned Google or Facebook but they need to comply with censorship requirements which the 2 companies did not want to comply. No issue of banning arises.
@Ronald Z China has it's own set of rules
And they need other company to comply with this rule
If they don't want to then don't do any business there
@Infovest you mean microsoft & apple are evil companies? why not go to sue them?
And do you forget PRISM project? you mean FB and Google collected the data of the whole world for the US gov to protect "free expression"? what a joke!
@@biaslina Authoritarian rules, betted not follow them anyways
@@cvasquez601 well every country has it set of rules and tradition
I have many Chinese friends and they seems to be never complain anything with their governments
But If I live there hell I will complain a lot
The conclusion is different country different people different rules
I respect that as long as they're happy that's okay
There is no absolute free expression, not with FB not with google, US too loves crack down sanction censoring spying etc etc the list go no and on.
As a western-educated Chinese, I have higher-education degrees from mainland China, United Kingdom (Mphil), United States (PHD) and Hong Kong (PHD). I have stayed in both "western" and "eastern" countries for many years and met a lot of friends from both "sides". To be honest, I love Google (a great company and I do respect their motto ’Don't be evil‘) and I use(d) iphones (although I have changed to HUAWEI P30PRO now, just for its great cameras, nothing about patriotism). However, it is not fair to compare China's "BAN" on google/youtube/facebook to US's "BAN" on HUAWEI. China's ban is only effective within the mainland China and China did not ask its alliances/companies to ban google/youtube. For comparison, the US has banned HUAWEI from selling its phones within US years ago, and nobody said anything. But now it is a different case, the US is not just banning HUAWEI from doing business in the US, it is banning HUAWEI from doing business at ALL. Again, I am not saying China's ban on google was a good thing, but US's move is just worse. BTW, US companies like apple and Microsoft are happily doing business in China for many years regardless the China's so-called BAN.
FYI, they dropped the 'don't be evil' motto
FR dude you are ded smart 💀
@@Roll587 That explains a lot.
the thing is, that china bans american companies doing business (NOT MANUFACTURING AND DOING BACKGROUND STUFF, JUST CONSUMER BUSINESS) only affects china...
america banning ALL AMERICAN COMPANIES to do business with china affects all of us... huawei wasnt really doing consumer business in the states before anyways...
people need to grasp the idea of this...
you too Jaime...
edit: yes, firewalled, not banned, but still, what i said is true, it does not affects other countries, manufacturing, or anything outside china
America just wants to drag the whole world down. Hey im slowing you guys must slow also.
Also the American cultural mindset already banned all China businesses in American for 'untrustworthy', 'cheap product that breaks', 'jobs stealers', etc.
They can't use Android with Google services on Android anymore. That is a big deal for tons and tons of their European consumers. Plus, while they aren't huge in the smartphone market here, there are millions of Americans that do have Hauwei devices and will be affected by this especially because they can't get anymore security updates and major Android releases.
Huawei has so much more tech than smart phones.
China didn't want to ban google and facebook, but they gave Chinese government no choice but ban them by not agreeing to follow Chinese law.
I'm going to stick with my mate 20 pro and I'll even go to mate 30. Loyalty, pricing and long long loooooong lasting battery 😁🕺🏾✊🏾
No one does the battery as good as Huawei, awesome 🤟
Love my p20 pro.
Right right still love my Y7😁😁 though it's just a Y7
@@lycorreos4911 you always get more with Huawei
@@sivyisvaj8054 WTF are you on about? Who the hell are you to call other people devils. And WTF is jesus to me? Dude I'm African pure African. I only praise God and my Ancestors not phones or nationalities so F.off this is not a platform or the right person to be racist with you stupid idiot.
Isn't it strange that gave huawei 90 days?
The United States has said huawei poses a national security threat and has declared a state of emergency.
So how can you give such a dangerous enemy 90 days?
People can change. The old adage says every saint has a past and every sinner has a future. The Chinese are quick learners, in 90 days time the US will turn all Chinese into saints.
read the news ,there is a trade war between US and china and Huawei is a big part of it
1.6k likes and 177 dislikes! It's confirmed that 177 FBI and CIA agents have visited this video.
More like 1.6 k are being pumped by Chinese
@@Wongseifu548Oops! Speak of the devil... Finally, CIA Agent Smith has arrived. xD
@@hlanbarjar "Agent" is probably above his pay grade. he's probably just a CIA/NSA/FBI towel boy.
FYI, the banning of Google, Facebook etc. in China is simply because these companies refused to accept Chinese law. You may not agree with these laws but its their law.
Then Trump just use the same tricks to Huawei
This is US law..
so that's why US Government make a executive order to ban huawei.
@@keiming2277 if that is the case then why need an executive order, just take them to court, and worse since US is only targeting 1 Chinese company. And why pressuring other countries to do the same?
@@Pegie98 you don't seem to understand, Google refused to accept Chinese law, Huawei accepts US laws but its ban anyway. Trump is a truely abusing the rule of law in the US by circumventing it.
@@tonyatgoogle6076 First, good luck inviting the Founder of Huawei to US court. Second, it's trade war tactics,just like China One Belt One Road tactics, it's all about what allies you can get
I got quoted! 😆 Thanks Jaime! I saw you, your son and Josh at the oneplus 7 pro event. Long time viewer. Keep up the good work!
Good point, one day Huawei and Samsung will have it own OS, so there are more options to choose. And I can't wait for that date to come🙏
Don't bring up Samsung into Huawei discussion...nice try Chinese though
there are already plenty of options, at this point it would be easier just to buy one
If Trump can stop providing the Android service to Huawei, they could do that for other brand as well.
Samsung and Huawei sucks at software.
@@MsLia32 Like what? So far I know Android and IOS are the best OS among others
This is not about Huawei, or smart phone industry. It's about trade war between the two countries. Huawai just happen to be in the way of the crossfire.
@@hectorg.7282 To answer your question, there are other Chinese companies and personals banned by Trump. ZTE was one of them. Huawei is taking all the news headlines, 5G, Kirin chipset, flagship cell phones, etc. Obama won't mind it, but Trump won't accept Huawei's rise. Anyway, it's doomed. Thx for reading my comments
Hector G. I totally agree. Huawei isn’t caught in the middle of a trade war. People forget about the nature of the Chinese government.
It about 5g the more us networks sold around the world that do have backdoors for NSA the better for us. Trump us ban was in hopes to stop Huawei 5g but there 5g products are safe so now he saying use it to get better trade deal with china. China wont budge since china wants 50/50 deal.
@@wiltryga7904 Yep, the nature of Chinese gov is promoting peace, unlike some shitty USA gov who promotes war and death all the time. USA looks like the Nazi of the 21st century. Oh, worse than Nazi because USA gov is also a super jealous axxhole.
Good to see there are so many ppl waking up to this US BS, thanks to internet.
Developers don't be panic, Huawei has announced that Android apps can run on Huawei's own OS.
That’s can’t be guaranteed cuz android is googles baby and which means it’s American so huawei could be stopped from running android apps as well or face huge fees
If they didn't steel android, no, they can't.
TpBrass0 Android is open, you can use it. What is there to steal.
@@kongwee1978 u need a license to sell it. U can get it for your own phone but selling is a different thing. To stop illegal use is change how software runs on android.
@@woodiemarv You don't need a license to compile android open source code for commercial use. lol
According to the US law, American companies should upload data and customer's info back to the US GOV when the US GOV requires，including the data and customer's info from the servers of overseas. But this situation is totally against Chinese's law. So Google choose to quit. Period.
John Zhang More accurately, companies like Google chose to quit entering Chinese market because they do not want to abide by Chinese law. Google is fine with providing info to US government but not to Chinese government, even when it is on Chinese land. But in my opinion, it is justifiable for any country to request that info be available to the government within their own territory in dire situations for example when it is a matter of security or when there are criminal and drug activities, etc. The US is practicing double standards; only the US can demand private data be accessed when concerning “national security”, no other country is allowed.
China has been blocking and controlling who does what business and how in their country. Problem here is that the US is kind of blocking Huawei to do business with other countries without their success. And long term killing the Android strangled hold, is probably more interesting and better for the consumer, I can’t see how it’s good for the consumer though. Also for people wanting in on the China market will have to start innovating outside the US, so they can do business in both markets. Could be good for Europe if they jump on the opportunity now.
And USA shamelessly emphasized on FREE TRADE and FREE MARKET.
@@hectorg.7282 Where is the proof, I'd like to see it. did you get that from Chinese Snowden?
@@hectorg.7282 Most people comment without having a clue of the situation. The US have been stealing tech and bankrupting other countries' companies for decades now, it just was not made the focal point by the media.
Trump is defending it for political gain which is why he made it part of his reality show.
The fact is that the American government is using Huawei as a front to blackmail secrets from other countries. They just got caught because they out-performed others.
There is proof (I hate how all these stupid people keep saying there isn't), it is being made public but that didn't open the floodgates for others to do the same. It's also a tactic to let the enemy know exactly what was afraid, and now the enemy can tell all the intel collected on whether it is reliable or not (espionage 101).
@StrategicFooyoo You underestimate the complexity of semiconductors, Not something you can just figure out in a year. That's not their only problem, They also can't do expandable storage which is very popular in china.
@@hectorg.7282Huawei can't thank Google and Drump enough
If Huawei do release their own operating system. Im switching to them. Im done with apple and Google.
Apple sabotages their own IOS so you need to get a new one. Tried Apple before, never going back.
Ok. Good luck with an OS with no apps.
@@maplenerd22 Theres always a work around. Don't worry the Chinese will have it sorted. They are cleverer than you think.
1:10 "There is still no evidence...". Thank you for pointing that out. This ban is more political than for security reasons.
Notha I gave you 👎 down cause you don’t support your president... you are not an Americans probably illegal
@@sivyisvaj8054 Ok👌
@@Notha320 I mean, what do you expect? I'm still waiting for the alleged Weapons of Mass Destruction evidence from operation Iraqi Freedom for more than a decade. Still no evidence yet the country is fucked to the ground anyway.
How do you think the US know, people can use tech for espionage purposes if not because they have been doing it as well, for a long period of time. The US is pretty advance in these sort of game.
I need huawei, why? Bcoz then samsung will not charge their mid range phone too high coz there are competition with huawei
Trump has the audacity to trample all over our intelligence. He calla Huawei dangerous and *right behind it* states that he is willing to "make a deal" with them. A deal supersedes being "dangerous". This as about posturing....nothing else.
Mr Huawei Rivera In fear of losing Huawei sponsorship
the myth：China ban US companies.
No, China didn't ban Google, Facebook, tweeter, it was that they didn't want to comply with Chinese law (yes, censorship requirements, is it good or bad, how it works that is for another day), then they exited the market, Microsoft, LinkedIn and some other US Internet businesses are doing OK in China, because they complied. Huawei was not offered any option to be in compliance. That is the difference.
First!
Loving you're first ❤️😍
Mate, you aren't pronouncing it correctly.
I am Huawei Rivera ;-)
sponsored by huawei
Lol
fuhget about this comment getting featured XD
There’s one thing wrong in your video. China never blocked google, it was google quit Chinese market by itself in 2010. We still have the google building in Beijing now.
Thank you for featuring my comment, love you Jaime and love your channel 😘
When you are not Anglo-Saxon and you do things better, they screw you this is our world now.
@Sev Sepic Loser, real white Anglo Saxons look down on lower whites like you.
This is literally free advertising for Huawei in a global scale.
You have made a mistake. Google and Facebook don't enter China because they are not willing to abide by Chinese laws. They hope that US laws will be implemented in Chinese, such as share the data of chinese customers to us gov. Huawei is not only because the United States does not allow him to enter. There is an essential difference.
That's correct, they all say China banned Google, but noone knows the reason
Watching on My mate 20 X , battery has been on for days ...still have 48% 😎
huawei have best 5G but USA low
Jaime : I'm not here to defend Huawei.....proceeds to defend them for over 9 min.
as much as I like their products, Huawei is a front for the Chinese government, and no company can be that big in china unless they're tied to the government. China bans a lot of US competition like Facebook and Google, so its only right that the US does the same. I'm not saying that the US is the moral leader especially when it comes to spying, but its just two dirty bastards playing Marco Polo with each other.
A front for the Chinese government? any proof? or are you just going to sit behind your computer talking shit and please don't use articles written by CNN or Fox as proof.......
I'm watching your video from my awesome Huawei p30.
Whatever the news about Huawei now. I never care.
Big support for Huawei.💪
And also, huawei is not know of their phones here in asia. They are known because of their equipments in cellsites. Just like nokia, they got rich not because of the phones. They have even a cloud drives. US just lost the technology of huawei. It’s not Huawei’s lost, its US lost.
Yes, Huawei do have a back up OS, it's called Hongmeng OS.
how do u know it?
@@Amircapturedmemories Google told me, go ask him.
Google used to in China a few years ago. But they didn't want to abide Chinese law. So they were asked to leave. Now seems it is wise move. Google did work for US government.
Imagine if all phones in china forced to switch to hongmeng, that is a huge market for developers to ignore.
at least 400 millions user by end next year. 600 millions if wechat and Alipay stop their support to Andriod
CHINA DID NOT BLOCK THEM. THEY LEFT THEMSELVES. YOU NEED TO FOLLOW THE LAW OF EVERY COUNTRY TO DO BUSINESS THERE. IF THEY FOLLOW THE RULES THEY CAN OPERATE IN CHINA.
@Infovest OFFICIALLY THEY ARE NOT BANNED.
JUST FOLLOW THE RULES, EVERY COUNTRY HAVE IT'S RULES.
MICROSOFT/BING HAVE ZERO PROBLEMS IN CHINA... WHY? CAUSE THEY FOLLOW THE RULES.
Love the channel but this issue with China and Hauwei is bigger than a few Smartphones....you should do some research Jaime.
I don't think the Huawei ban is baseless, but I do think the current ban should be scaled back. People seem to think they are innocent but in the past have stolen tech from companies, not sure if it was proven
EZEKIEL they do
@EZEKIEL just because we haven't seen evidence doesn't make it untrue
@EZEKIEL not even close, no one has been put in jail, hauwei is not a us citizen. it is hauweis job to try and appeal the decision
@EZEKIEL no I understand you think hauwei should have the same rights as a citizen, they are not even a US company. At least that is the example you gave O can't help it if you meant something else
@EZEKIEL who said there wasn't evidence, we just haven't seen it
There’s distinct difference b/w China ban google and America don’t allow its companies doing business with huawei.
Some details on the China banning other internet services (I am not saying is was fair, just to provide more information), technically China does not ban US companies from running internet services, there are several restrictions though: 1. The servers must be located in China; 2. Those companies have to form joint ventures for operating in China (just like Azure China is operating independently from Azure international); 3. Self-censorship is required for those service providers and that is actually a huge part, and you have to comply management of related government departments (just like other domestic services). Google actually quit Chinese market themselves because they can not stand with those laws & regulations anymore.
Everything i look or shop on amazon shows up on my Facebook page...there all in on it
I think he said the word "Huawei" more times than his name in this video. This is the first time this strange phenomenon has occurred. I am in shock and don't know what to do. 😱
huawei will prevail . They will become dominant.
Id like to mention. and share my tweet to google concerning my warranty on my mate20:
"@Google you just ruined my huawei phone experience. Not only did you pull your support after 3 months. you now destroyed the consumer warranty and experience. what is your solution to satisfy the digital consumers you promised security and performance? #lawyer please
"
4:38 AM - 26 May 2019
First of all, I am Chinese. I certainly do not agree that you mix the ban of FB, Twitter, google and etc. up with Huawei Ban. The reason why we ban those social media in CHINA is that they do not Obey our rules. Now, let’s see Huawei. Does Huawei violate any rules of the United States. If it does, please prove me. You cannot mix the two things up, just because they are all related to ‘BAN’. The concepts are totally different. No offense, but if you want to prove something, use a correct reference please.
i do believe that this whole scenario is better for huawei. It will surely take time but if they design and manufacture a lot of things themselves and make new linux based O.S that can also run android apps with the close help of the chinese government, huawei might just be the biggest tech company ever
Linux is also belong to Google
@@dreamhaunter9918 google doesn't own linux. Google just own android which is based on linux.
@@dreamhaunter9918 No one owns GNU/Linux
I have a mate 20 pro and it is anweosme phone and I love the invation of Huawei but cone on they are not some innocent victim. Do you remember their Cisco suit or t mobile? Get the facts out before you sympathize with them.
Yea whatever pussy, hope you get your Android update after August
In my opinion, this ban will open up new doors for tech developers to come up with a new OS. The U.S is worried about the fast growth of the Chinese Tech Industries which are eating up their markets, especially PC's and Smartphones. Apple sales dropped so badly since 2018 and unable to recover because of their prices are almost double than the Chinese products. This trade war is not only about Huawei, but it is also about The U.S Vs China Hi-Tech global domination. I see the U.S as greedy and jealous of China. The trade war between both will surely divide consumers and I will choose to go with China because they are innocent. The U.S is behaving or dreaming as if they own the world WHAT A SHAME! maybe I'm lost, are we in the bronze ages? Have respect for other nations
Mr. Huawei Riviera is so desperate and worried that his Huawei sponsorship get cut off😂😂
So, what do u desperate and worried? 🤔
Honestly, it'd be cool to see Huawei help in the development of Plasma Mobile or Ubuntu Touch
how many times did Jaime say "huawei' without the last "huawei"?
Yes there are double standards google could miss out if the majority of the world move away via Huawei
I've been trying to use Android without Google Play Services and it's a nightmare. Sure, Android is Open Source, but AOSP is not Android as we think of it at this point. Google has effectively locked in developers to their proprietary APIs. Say what you will about iMessage lock-in, Google lock-in is much more problematic for all of us.
Trump: who will use the new android
Huawei: we have 1.4 billion people to use for the moment.
Lol
China banned Apple so America banned Huawei. All's fair in love and war.
China never banned apple.. Apple is manufactured in China...
Oh no, it's the other way around.
Google has withdrawn from China because of its refusal to comply with Chinese law, and Facebook is the same. Google is a company that fully abides by the US government, so it is a hitter of American hegemony. Have you ever thought that if your country and the United States are in friction, Trump orders Google to ban it from offering to your country? Is this a hegemony?
Yes, its fair Jaime. I'm sure we tell our kids the same thing. "I don't care what johnny does in his home. This is what we do in our home." Just because these are US companies doesn't mean they get to do what they want in another sovereign country. They know the rules of the game there. Play by them. Don't complain to another ref in another league.
Finally! I got quoted all these years I'm following Pocketnow hehe
Keep those witty comments coming and you could get featured again!
You're going to get a Medal for that 😏
Am i the only one wanting that shirt?? Jamie, please leave links!!
Did not know Amazon that keeps track of your purchases was the government.
Huawei is using US conceived software and hardware to sell their product and was gaining , lately , very much very fast on the market .So americans decided to screw them , is that bad ? Well , in business and love anything goes so , maybe chinese companies should , before racing to sell anything , to plan ahead more carefully .
Ya, but we all know if China make up mind to screw US by stopping all US production in China. US economy will be dying then.
7:04 100% agree
Be gone, huawei
If Huawei can't even make a good skin, what makes people think they can make a whole operating system
Chutiya
@@abhishekawasthi6175 ?
Look up Hongmeng OS.
@@afgaggheh I know about it. But people aren't gonna use something called "hongmeng" anyway, remember the rest of the world aren't geeks and go buy looks and names
@@Ali___ Hey, Never say never. 3 years ago, when I first get to know Huawei as a Chinese phone brand, I told myself that I would never even intend to try a Huawei phone, but today I am currently using a Huawei P20 Pro.
I would agree with you on fairness but not this case, because America self proclaimed is a free democracy country, but this policy is more like authoritarian policy don’t you think its hypocrites for America to do this?
google, facebook, not follow China law, then they quit China Market. That is totally different. Huawei wants to follow US law to enter US, but US doesnot allowed and ban Huawei, whatever Huawei do. Because Huawei is more advanced in 5G.
futhermore, huawei doesnot do business in us. why US still ban huawei
Huawei already makes it's own OS called HongMeng OS, it is phone ready and can emulate Android apps. It has been in the works for almost 10 years and is open source. From perusing some of my favorite android developer sites, Huawei was intending on replacing Windows 10 on there laptops with their version of the latest iteration of HongMeng OS, could be why Microsoft doesn't like them anymore. Another big thing to note is Huawei is partially owned by the Chinese government, and China provides 80+% of the rare minerals used in chip and battery tech, wonder if china might cut off supply if the US continues their blockade.
Let's see.
Africa does
The rare metals used in chip tech aren't as rare as you think. N. Korea has mountains of it. Even the US has mountains of it, it just chooses not to dig them up because of the environmental impact. So no, China blocking rare metals wouldn't really hurt the US. It would just make the US even less dependent on China for these materials, and that's a bad thing for China. In reality, the US buying rare metals from China is essentially a handout to China, because it allows China to operate industries that the US would otherwise compete in....and that's not something China would win in either. The US could churn out soo many rare earth metals that China would barely make a profit and start buying them from the US instead. You really don't seem to get it....the US is sitting on a continent that up until 300 years ago, was just untouched jungle. The US is one of the most resource rich nations on the planet. The US has more oil than Saudi Arabia. The US has more rare earth metals than any other country on the planet. The US has the largest amount of farmable land on the planet. And the US has access to both sides of the Atlantic and Pacific oceans, which can be utilized in various ways, from fishing to energy to shipping. So when Saudi Arabia's oil reserves run dry...guess who is still going to be chugging along? The US. The US is basically saving all of its natural resources, to the point where when every country starts running dry of theirs, the US will still have plenty. And saving those natural resources has another side effect: CLEAN ENVIRONMENT. China has already lost....it just doesn't realize it yet.
I was planning on getting the MateBook X Pro, but I don't know what Microsoft is gonna do at this point...
Yeah the entire country of China could end up being banned from windows operating system cuz Microsoft is an American company so then basically China wouldn’t even have computers at all anymore
If the MateBook X Pro already has Windows installed, then you are fine. Only stuff that hasn't come out yet is in question. But anything release prior to ban is still good.
you are still in the clear..it still has windows
Don’t buy a huawei product it’s to risky just get a MacBook you won’t regret
@@TheRealPikachuBros srsly..a macbook..do you know what the matebook x can do
Toshiba in 1987, now Huawei in 2019
If you said that the Kirin processor is "U.S. technology", then you were sadly mistaken. You're also mistaken for thinking "what if the Kirin processor dies", because the not only is the Kirin processor designed in-house by Huawei (then manufactured by TSMC) based on the ARM A8 architecture to which Huawei already has permanent rights, but Huawei has also been developing its own architecture to replace that of ARM, from the core.
You got 🎱 🎱 to defend Huawei.. I like
Abdulrahman Ali it needs iron balls to do so
we actually pretty welcome google to come in China and replace Baidu, but the thing is, Google decides not to proceed with that anymore. As for Facebook or Amazon,it’s hard to say if they can compete with WeChat or Taobao in China. Anyway thanks for the cool vid
A company without supports from hardware to software, be honest to ourselves, Huawei is over. No waste of money.
By banning huawei, trump did the best advertising he can for huawei. Us consumers are heard about this brand for the first time.
Really? I've gotten bombarded with Huawei ads for 2 years xD
@@Turai12 you don't live in the US
@8:20
It is funny to listen to people trying so hard to compare US made cell phone apps not being allowed to run in China with a Chinese made cell phone not being allowed to run US cell phone apps.
Current Facts:
1. China "allows" Chinese citizens to buy US made cell phones (e.g. iphones) "but not allowed" to run US made cell phone apps in China.
2. US does "not allow" US citizens to buy a Chinese made cell phone "and not allowed" that Chinese made cell phone to run US made cell phone apps.
See the difference? allows but not allowed vs not allow and not allowed
Therefore, isn't it fair to change the fact #1 to:
1. China does "not allows" Chinese citizens to buy a US made cell phone "and not allowed" to run US made cell phone apps in China.
Well, we will see if Hauwei will eventually come up with a solution to allow customers in other countries other than US to access the so-called precious US web services without the mighty US made cell phone apps on a Chinese made cell phone.
No country spies on it's own citizens as cynically as China does, and Huawei plays a big role in that.
Great video, I would clarify a point about China banning the US companies from doing business in China. The thing is, they don't actually "ban" these companies so to speak. But they do require them to follow the strict media control rules in China in order to do their business, so for things like social media and user-content websites, they need to create a filter that would censor any material which is deemed inappropriate in China, and also they would need to provide access to Chinese Government with regards to any Chinese based user information.
All these American companies such as Google, Twitter, Facebook etc. cannot comply with these rules of course, not only is there enormous cost involved with setting up these operations, but they would also receive significant backlash from home if they implemented any of those measures even just for the Chinese market.
I would say, the difference in this instance, is that the Chinese laws are clearly laid out, they apply to US companies and Chinese companies, and anyone else who wants to set up a business in China. They haven't changed any of them just to target a US company. While US banned Huawei on an executive order based purely on speculation, when they have not been convicted of any of these cyber security crimes.
So as ridiculous as the following statement may seem, but in this particular instance, China is the one who is following the established "rule of law" when it comes to business, while Trump is using a business as a leverage in a trade negotiation. It just makes the US Government lose credibility when they want to accuse anyone else of wrongdoing (not that they've fully recovered from the whole WMD in Iraq debacle yet).
China banning Facebook and Google in their country is not the same as the U.S. blacklisting Huawei. China is not allowing Facebook and Google to be used in their country so it only effects them, but Huawei being blacklisted effects consumers all over the globe.
Ok just wait Huawei trump will leave and enovation has to continue as for sammy keep it cool love em but if Huawei gets back up im ditching sammy for a p40 pro
These comments seem to be from the same IP address 🤫
China never totally banned companys just certain products mainly for violatating their laws regarding censorship. If the US would just ban certain Huawei products in the US, that would be OK, but what they do is much worse.
as a chinese I just wanna say
Damn this is gonna be interesting. IMMA sitting cozy and enjoy the drama
This is crazy really ! Ronald dump needs to fix up ! I'm waiting to buy a p30 FFS !
It's unfair to compare a well developed mature market like USA and a developing immature market like China. It's like you forced a lower end buyers comply to higher end terms and conditions.
China is a close market.
@@KHH7711 China is a market that is not well developed and mature enough and it still need some kind of protections, especially it involves 1.4 billion people. China cannot just open up the market just solely for the sake of free trade where the average Chinese are still not strong/capable enough to deal with strong or even world class trading nations that monopolized the world market.
@@KHH7711 And Hong Kong is definitely an imminent sovereign PART OF PR China......... FOREVER!!!
@@KHH7711 Just imagine your ABC Coffee compete with Starbucks Coffee or Costa Coffee or your Lam & Chen burger compete with McDonald's or KFC, is it fair if both enjoy the same platforms, terms and conditions???
@@jeffreysetapak So?
In important info, China's law requires these internet companied to have their data stored in China, if they run business in China. Apple China store their Icloud inside China, therefore, Apple can run in China, but google refuses, as well as twitter fb, which are sub companies of google. If they have their data (bussiness in china only) inside china, they can run in China... but they just do not want to...
With the US law, if they ban Huawei from using products designed by American firm, eg. British company, ARM is no longer allowed to sell ARM's products with American patented content in it, then it cannot be sold to Huawei. This means that when you make a product that has some American IP content, you are basically renting to use. So be aware that you are obligated to be subjected to American sanctions if you misbehave in american's eyes.
Google should've gone for the head.
How about ios + android = new os improved in both aspect
clap clap clap
We Chinese people will defenitely support Huawei through this harsh time.
Sponsored by huawei
Err, China didn't technically ban Google etc. Google didn't comply with the rules on blocking certain websites, search words, etc so they cant enter the market. Apparently, they only follow the rules in their country of origin.
I think new os one day is going up better them android and ios Samsung have new plan for new os all android phone try something new
I'd like to see Google try and ban Samsung😂
I hope one day huawei better them apple os
I will support Huawei till the last minute
And then in the last minute will you jump ship .
Ok?
Trump building a wall around Huawei but a wall can be teared down with either a big bang or brick by brick, Huawei will come back stronger and better than before
Read China's law!
i dont fancy giving up android for hong meng os........and what about the developers or do we not need them for hong meng os...Lol
Facebook and Google is away in the Chinese society and government the Chinese know this.
China does allow google/facebook to do business in the country, but there are some rules, like the servers must be located in China, and certain censorship must be imposed, therefore google/facebook servers outside China are blocked. Google China chose to leave in 2009, and before that they had a hard time competing with Chinese local search engine Baidu. That's it.
If the US can’t keep up with the competition they go to war and take what they want the rest of the world is sick of you.
When it comes to Huawei Jaime riveraS backside must be very sore from sitting on the fence
china does not allow any western company to list in their stock market, but we let China companies to list under our stock market. Its time to get fair. I'm glad Huawei is getting a taste of it's own medicine.
I figured it out, WW3 is gonna be over smart phones.
I really admire the Huawei's CEO on his interview, he's so humble and very calm in taking the situation. It.s like the saying, if someone throws a stone at you, throws him a piece of bread.. and if they will continue banning Huawei in the US, they might get left behind as to what Huawei might do in the future.. nevertheless..