I remember talking with you about s90v what feels like years ago at this point. I always felt the need to qualify it as one of my favorite _stainless_ steels, but I think just calling it one of my favorite steels is probably more appropriate. I've been really testing some s45vn (which seems to get praised for it's toughness) from CRK the last couple months, and haven't found it to be any more tough than s90v in any of my real world use. I think s90v's toughness has always been underrated.
With the geometries we're seeing on production knives, toughness is usually way overblown. What is S45VN like to work with sharpening and working edge wise? What edge angle does CRK shoot for these days?
Thank you for the great content. I enjoying hearing your take on steel. I have a Benchmade 484 Nakamura in S90V. Would be happy to let you test it, if you like.
Great video. I'm very much getting to the point that s90v could be the stainless that I could be happy with forever. Sal I think has said it's one of his all time favorites as well. If you like the Native design and s90v, you'll love the CF version. Just an amazing knife but much more expensive than the LW.
I've almost bought the CF version a few times but she sure is spendy! I genuinely think that would be one of my top 3 knives ever though if I had it. S90V and LC200N are likely going to be my go to stainless steels depending on what I'm feeling. I do like Magnacut but I don't need balance in my life, I want the extremes! Magnacut for the hotrod geometries though.
Anyone in the market for a Native, there’s also a Rex 45 exclusive, still in stock at GP Knives. Great knife, for those of us who’ve wanted to try Rex!
@@FreedomFox1 a Para 3 LW, two PM2s, and a Manix 2. The first three are all reground to 0.010" BTE with 15 DPS edges. They're an awesome combination of slicey, tough, and sharp. I haven't gotten around to regrinding the Manix 2 yet.
@@FreedomFox1 no worries! I've found Spyderco's factory grinds are usually between 17 to 18 degrees per side (but that's just me). The BTE measurement is the thickness of the blade Behind The Edge, so the width of the blade right where the primary grind meets the secondary sharpened edge. Most Golden, CO Spydercos measure around 0.025" BTE. Depending on the steel and the intended use, you can regrind (or pay someone to regrind) the slab sides of a knife blade and thin the whole thing down to a lower BTE measurement. Rex 45 is possibly the best choice in steel for a 0.010" ish BTE blade that retains a ton of durability and edge stability. It's the "have your cake and eat it too" tool steel.
Just got 2x DLC S90V teal G-10 PM2’s, (they’re priced well, relative to the rest of the market). Now, I’m considering selling my S110V PM2. It’s a little more stainless than S90V, but doesn’t have any other significant advantages… and S90V is a bit tougher, (it’s tougher than M390/20CV/204P as well). The DLC on these S90V PM2’s greatly diminishes any concerns about corrosion, and I live in the desert anyway. I’m REALLY struggling to perceive $40 more value, (the difference in cost), in the S110V version.
@@EngineersPerspective701 Yeah, I returned the S110V PM2. S110V must be a royal PITA to work with, otherwise I really don’t understand why that model is so much more expensive, (relative to other PM2’s). Lovin the DLC S90V so far!
Hey Justin Thanks for all your insights... You said you had to tune the knife for the action, can you define that. I have 2 natives and the action sucks. Lubbed the plastic area acting as a washer, lockbar contact, and adjusted pivot. Still no joy. So next move was to take length off lock bar trial and error little bit at a time. The screws into the frn have a very short life so for others watch and do not cross thread ...try to get threads exactly as they originally went in or plan on a spot of thread lock . So what did you do?
Just disassembled, cleaned, put the back spring in the correct way (it was reversed) and put it back together! Honestly nothing fancy, I’ve had really good luck with the 3 I’ve used.
Have you ever done a BESS test on a working edge plus to see what the scores are? Also I wonder if the lower level on working edge plus sharpness with S90V is due to the larger carbides, compared to K390 or 10V.
I did a few tests on K390 around the time I made the M390/20CV video and I don’t remember exactly. Probably around 250g-300g but i can’t say for certain. I remember being surprised how high it was based on the performance My best guess for S90V is that it needs more VC but I’m really starting to wonder how size works into this but I haven’t explored it enough to draw my own conclusions
S90V alllllll day long! Need to explore the full potential of the working edge on S90V to say for sure but the sharpening and up front fine and working edge blows S110V out of the water
@@EngineersPerspective701 I was under the impression that the large carbide working edge of S110v is where that steel really shines. I have an S110v millie I reground to a respectable 0.015" BTE, and there's no doubt it's not a fine edge performer, but I've been surprised at how well it blazes through cardboard even though it doesn't _feel_ sharp anymore. Kinda the way K390 stays useful forever. Maybe it's the huge, comfy handle doing most of the work. 🤔
@@ZPositive I’m talking more the transition from fine to working edge is better on S90V, the way I wrote it wasn’t very clear. Overall working edge S110V may be better but that’s what I need to explore more with the S90V still. Keep that Millie forever though! Unicorn to have that geometry. Although you’ve already conquered regrinding Seki City K390 so there’s nothing you can’t handle!
@@EngineersPerspective701 cool, I'm stoked to hear your input. I have a Native Chief in S90V that I have yet to familiarize myself with. I think I might have to do it sooner rather than later. And I'll send you a photo or two of the Millie when it's done. It's not a crazy redesign, just some fine tuning.
@@EngineersPerspective701 Fascinating. Just based on composition, you would think that s110v would have pretty similar performance. But your experience speaks for itself.
@@EngineersPerspective701 I figured as much. I ended seeing your second video I must of missed it somehow. Yes, spyderco HT has always seemed to be consistent from what I gather, that is atleast as far as their readily available products. I have heard mixed reviews with a few of their sprint runs though as I'm sure your aware. I've always had a feeling of wavering with benchmade and because of this uncertainty I've avoided buying any of their knives but I must admit I can't help but be interested in some of their model's, it's probably because of the aesthetic aspect but also because of my love for the cross bar locking mechanism. If a knife has a cross bar lock, thumb studs and a flipper tab theirs a good chance I'm buying it.
@@EngineersPerspective701 thanks for the link. It's funny how every time you talk about that m390 paramilitary you always say stuff like " it's one of my favorite stainless steels but only this exact specimen not m390 or any of it's analogue I.E.(20cv 204P) in general." It's comical only because your always careful to make your statement as clearly as possible every single time your talking about that knife lol. I wonder what the ratio might have been and how many other m390 Paramilitaries were heat treated well. I'm also curious as to why their 20CV didn't stack up against their m390.
Thanks to whoever made the donation. Justin has a real talent for breaking down and explaining differences between steels.
Just to clarify I’m borrowing it but still super generous! Gave me free reign on it to do whatever I felt I needed to!
I remember talking with you about s90v what feels like years ago at this point. I always felt the need to qualify it as one of my favorite _stainless_ steels, but I think just calling it one of my favorite steels is probably more appropriate.
I've been really testing some s45vn (which seems to get praised for it's toughness) from CRK the last couple months, and haven't found it to be any more tough than s90v in any of my real world use. I think s90v's toughness has always been underrated.
With the geometries we're seeing on production knives, toughness is usually way overblown. What is S45VN like to work with sharpening and working edge wise? What edge angle does CRK shoot for these days?
Thank you for the great content. I enjoying hearing your take on steel. I have a Benchmade 484 Nakamura in S90V. Would be happy to let you test it, if you like.
If you're okay with it, I would love to try out some Benchmade S90V!
Shoot me a message me on my Instagram @engineers_perspective to discuss
Wow the action looks so good! Night and day difference from what I was workin with haha. Loved hearing the first impressions man! Great vid!
It’s only gotten better from use after that initial tune up! Really enjoy this knife, you got a great one man!
Great video. I'm very much getting to the point that s90v could be the stainless that I could be happy with forever. Sal I think has said it's one of his all time favorites as well. If you like the Native design and s90v, you'll love the CF version. Just an amazing knife but much more expensive than the LW.
I've almost bought the CF version a few times but she sure is spendy! I genuinely think that would be one of my top 3 knives ever though if I had it.
S90V and LC200N are likely going to be my go to stainless steels depending on what I'm feeling. I do like Magnacut but I don't need balance in my life, I want the extremes! Magnacut for the hotrod geometries though.
FAVOURITE!… WEE TOUGHER THAN 440C, TWICE THE EDGE HOLDING & A VERY CRISP EDGE-APEX (Holds a 16 Degrees/ Side Edge)
Definitely one of my favorite stainless options
Just scooped up the GPKnives Native in REX 45! Super stoked bc I’ve never handled a rex spyderco.
Love the stuff, my Rex45 native is definitely a favorite!
Anyone in the market for a Native, there’s also a Rex 45 exclusive, still in stock at GP Knives. Great knife, for those of us who’ve wanted to try Rex!
Everyone needs at least two knives in Rex 45. 🙂
@@ZPositive What do you have in Rex?
@@FreedomFox1 a Para 3 LW, two PM2s, and a Manix 2. The first three are all reground to 0.010" BTE with 15 DPS edges. They're an awesome combination of slicey, tough, and sharp. I haven't gotten around to regrinding the Manix 2 yet.
@@ZPositive Nice! Please excuse my ignorance, but I thought Spyderco already sharpened at 15 degrees? Also, what’s BTE… stock thickness?
@@FreedomFox1 no worries! I've found Spyderco's factory grinds are usually between 17 to 18 degrees per side (but that's just me). The BTE measurement is the thickness of the blade Behind The Edge, so the width of the blade right where the primary grind meets the secondary sharpened edge. Most Golden, CO Spydercos measure around 0.025" BTE.
Depending on the steel and the intended use, you can regrind (or pay someone to regrind) the slab sides of a knife blade and thin the whole thing down to a lower BTE measurement. Rex 45 is possibly the best choice in steel for a 0.010" ish BTE blade that retains a ton of durability and edge stability. It's the "have your cake and eat it too" tool steel.
S90v is absolutely my fav stainless.
It’s awesome for sure
Just got 2x DLC S90V teal G-10 PM2’s, (they’re priced well, relative to the rest of the market). Now, I’m considering selling my S110V PM2. It’s a little more stainless than S90V, but doesn’t have any other significant advantages… and S90V is a bit tougher, (it’s tougher than M390/20CV/204P as well). The DLC on these S90V PM2’s greatly diminishes any concerns about corrosion, and I live in the desert anyway. I’m REALLY struggling to perceive $40 more value, (the difference in cost), in the S110V version.
Ditch the S110V says me!
@@EngineersPerspective701 Yeah, I returned the S110V PM2. S110V must be a royal PITA to work with, otherwise I really don’t understand why that model is so much more expensive, (relative to other PM2’s).
Lovin the DLC S90V so far!
Hey Justin
Thanks for all your insights...
You said you had to tune the knife for the action, can you define that. I have 2 natives and the action sucks. Lubbed the plastic area acting as a washer, lockbar contact, and adjusted pivot. Still no joy.
So next move was to take length off lock bar trial and error little bit at a time.
The screws into the frn have a very short life so for others watch and do not cross thread ...try to get threads exactly as they originally went in or plan on a spot of thread lock .
So what did you do?
Just disassembled, cleaned, put the back spring in the correct way (it was reversed) and put it back together! Honestly nothing fancy, I’ve had really good luck with the 3 I’ve used.
Spyderco does their HT right, the new mules look fricking crazy I think they are trying to dethrone K390 and S110V.
Excited for the new lineup, they’re definitely swinging for the fences!
Have you ever done a BESS test on a working edge plus to see what the scores are?
Also I wonder if the lower level on working edge plus sharpness with S90V is due to the larger carbides, compared to K390 or 10V.
I did a few tests on K390 around the time I made the M390/20CV video and I don’t remember exactly. Probably around 250g-300g but i can’t say for certain. I remember being surprised how high it was based on the performance
My best guess for S90V is that it needs more VC but I’m really starting to wonder how size works into this but I haven’t explored it enough to draw my own conclusions
For sure, there's so much poorly heat treated M390/20CV/204P out there tarnishing its reputation. What are your thoughts on S90V vs. S110v?
S90V alllllll day long! Need to explore the full potential of the working edge on S90V to say for sure but the sharpening and up front fine and working edge blows S110V out of the water
@@EngineersPerspective701 I was under the impression that the large carbide working edge of S110v is where that steel really shines. I have an S110v millie I reground to a respectable 0.015" BTE, and there's no doubt it's not a fine edge performer, but I've been surprised at how well it blazes through cardboard even though it doesn't _feel_ sharp anymore. Kinda the way K390 stays useful forever. Maybe it's the huge, comfy handle doing most of the work. 🤔
@@ZPositive I’m talking more the transition from fine to working edge is better on S90V, the way I wrote it wasn’t very clear. Overall working edge S110V may be better but that’s what I need to explore more with the S90V still.
Keep that Millie forever though! Unicorn to have that geometry. Although you’ve already conquered regrinding Seki City K390 so there’s nothing you can’t handle!
@@EngineersPerspective701 cool, I'm stoked to hear your input. I have a Native Chief in S90V that I have yet to familiarize myself with. I think I might have to do it sooner rather than later.
And I'll send you a photo or two of the Millie when it's done. It's not a crazy redesign, just some fine tuning.
@@EngineersPerspective701 Fascinating. Just based on composition, you would think that s110v would have pretty similar performance. But your experience speaks for itself.
M390 + titanium _ 3v + g10 =200 VS Elmax + Fat carbon fiber =210??
?
What mess? Clean freak!
lol the camera view doesn’t do it justice 😅! Lots of sawdust and materials around, but always put the tools back where they go!
Did you end up doing a follow up video on benchmade s90v? I was curious to see if benchmade's s90v was as consistent and as good as spyderco's.
Linked below. The spyderco is much superior from my use. Depends on what a person prioritizes and desires
ua-cam.com/video/CGgaDZf9GnQ/v-deo.html
@@EngineersPerspective701 I figured as much. I ended seeing your second video I must of missed it somehow. Yes, spyderco HT has always seemed to be consistent from what I gather, that is atleast as far as their readily available products. I have heard mixed reviews with a few of their sprint runs though as I'm sure your aware. I've always had a feeling of wavering with benchmade and because of this uncertainty I've avoided buying any of their knives but I must admit I can't help but be interested in some of their model's, it's probably because of the aesthetic aspect but also because of my love for the cross bar locking mechanism. If a knife has a cross bar lock, thumb studs and a flipper tab theirs a good chance I'm buying it.
@@EngineersPerspective701 thanks for the link. It's funny how every time you talk about that m390 paramilitary you always say stuff like " it's one of my favorite stainless steels but only this exact specimen not m390 or any of it's analogue I.E.(20cv 204P) in general." It's comical only because your always careful to make your statement as clearly as possible every single time your talking about that knife lol. I wonder what the ratio might have been and how many other m390 Paramilitaries were heat treated well. I'm also curious as to why their 20CV didn't stack up against their m390.