The Unintended Feature that became a Core AoE2 Skill
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- Опубліковано 18 вер 2024
- The game developpers couldn't have foreseen it, but quickwalls, the art (yes it's an art) of placing building foundations to block ennemy units, has become a core skill in Age Of Empires II Definitive Edition. How does it work? How did it came to be? How does it influence the gameplay? Should it be in the game at all?
Let me tell you all about it!
Footage used:
- @T90Official
- @MembTV_
- @TheViperAOE
- @ZeroEmpires
- @NiliAoE2
- @slamAOE
Hope you enjoyed the video!
I love your ability to find old clips. I imagine Tiramis has a big, well-organized catalog of clips to cover any game instance.
twitch clips of vipur and slam
@@ColinAoC ahah I wish I had such catalog! Most of the time spent on those videos is to find the right clips, or record them myself 11
Damn, hearing Resonance22's voice brings me back. Good times.
His breaking the meta series is still the best playlist of AoE2 videos ever uploaded
What ever happened to him?
@@phillipmcgarry he started playing some other games but probably just got busy with life
@@IndexInvestingWithCole Sad. Would love to see him cast in a big tournament!
Really cheering you on @Tiramis
The AOE 2 Community has many interesting narratives and stories to be told! The Rise of ZeroEmpires Casting Viper, Mr Yo, DauT, RiuT, Dogao...etc... Nili's Apartment Championship that brought the Titans face to face... Cheers from Brazil!
Brilliant content as always Tiramis! Your videos are unique and always being a fresh flavor to the game we've been in love with for 25 years! Also, love your references to the GOAT in your videos! Without Vipey, the game wouldn't be what it is today... The off-meta 7/10 strategies he creates and the entertainment factor he brings in with his affable streaming is what keeps the game as interesting and fresh even after all these years!!! Continue the great work guys!
Thank you so much for the kind words! I'll keep making as long as you keep watching :)
I don't know why I liked the comment but I liked 😅
Nice video. Rocket league has something similar. After years when the game was already out, they found out when you touch the ball with all for wheels it resets your flip again. In todays pro play everyone is doing it nonstop.
Fun fact, flip resetting wasn't possible the first year of release. They added the mechanic later so that you would keep your flip on the Underpass map etc. when falling off the ramp or something like that.
Excellent video (as always). I remember Slam Gates. Iirc, he would also use them to fix a weak wall tile from a distance by putting it perpendicular to the wall, thus keeping his vils safe from archers.
I mean quickwalling balances itself because of how attention intensive it is, in RTS games you attention is the most valuable resource, and quickwalling with multiple villagers and buildings requires 100% of your attention for valuable seconds
I also requires your enemy's 100% attention so i dont think so
@@HowDoYouTurnThisOn_Enemy can easily countered by archers lol.
2:05 aoe1 builings looks way too cool
Another fantastic video, love the deep dive throwbacks :)
So cool to see Slam getting his dues, if he could commit as much time as the others do, he would be still in the top 10 for sure! SLAMJAM
I miss his streams!
SLAMJAM!
Thanks for the excellent video! Love the slam shoutout - I actually had no idea about his involvement.
Great video man, I love watching these old clips haha
Thanks for the video, I really enjoyed it!
I can't believe that seeing this arena game at 0:15 I knew right away what game was it without reading the players' names....
Slowly but surely, Tiramis is building what will become the enciclopedia or AOE history. Kudos !
Funnily enough, I’d argue there’s some historical basis for quickwalling. Yes, in reality people can’t conjure a building in front of them to deter an enemy charge, but quickly thrown up field fortifications like ditches, screens, stakes, and palisades stretch back into prehistory
another great vid, thanks dude!
Glad you enjoyed!
as long as 1: buildings have a significant amount of health, 2: building health increases linearly as it's being built, 3: buildings start building as soon as vil gets on top of it, and 4: building foundations block units, quickwalling will be viable (given reasonable ping ofc). The easiest way to stop quickwalling are either to make it not block units, or to make it so that the buildings gain health nonlinearly (quadratic? cubic?) so towards the end they rapidly gain health but at the beginning it's very slow.
why stop quickwalling though? It's awesome. And I respect when my opponent pulls it off.
@@timotheemaegli i don't think they should *remove* it, just that if you want to prevent similar shit from happening in another game you make, right, well, there's the analysis. Maybe someone does want to make a game that doesn't allow quickwalling, and that's valid.
I really enjoyed this video, thank you!
Great Video as always!
I do not play age of M or age 4 because they do not have the grid system
Really enjoy your videos! Great work
Glad you like them!
Great as always!!
Last time I suggested you to make a video about the early aoe2 times and the Koreans, which Hera later did, so here goes my next suggestions (who probably no one would watch and you shouldn't do):
- El Clasico of AoE2 --> Unless you can find a proper matchup that deserves such title, I would go for the memes and make it about MBL vs. Capoch 11
- The Slowest --> I would look for someone who is by far the slowest APM player to reach a specific elo and make a video about him
Thank you! :) I might have something in mind that's similar to the second one 11
@@Tiramis_ Is it another Daut or Yo video 11?
Un trésor, ce Tiramis ! Continue comme ça ! ;)
pretty much every game has this sort of silly feature that becomes very important to the game over time: creep farming in dota2, boosts or run-boosts in counter strike. i dont see any reason why aoe shouldnt have it, as it is so unique and interesting, and i think its very uncool that they got rid of it after aoe2
Small thing, Aoe1 houses are 2x2, TCs are 3x3
so good as usual
ahh, the good old quick walling
Haters will say quickwalling is historically inaccurate while Julius Caesar is laughing in his double palisade ring
Oh shit. This is that guy that keeps making really good aoe2 vids.
great talk!
Tiramis hype!
I think that rts games of the golden era really benefited from the right combination of programming and technical limitations. Aoe2 having such a clear difference in models for example really helped the game while the more detailed models of aoe3 often made me not sure what was happening.
Interesting to see that slam was the one who came up with quickwalls, would have never guessed it 7:02
I remember back in 2020-2021 slam fans were upset they were called "viper quickwalls" when was slam who was their father. so, they started spreading the word about this on reddit and servers
I hope people appretiate the absurd amount of time you put in this video
I REALLY LOVE QW.
SO DO I.
To place 2 tiles quick should hold ctrl to not remove the build menu, so you can open build menu, hold ctrl, then place the 2 palisades
i love the grid system, so much that i cannot even enjoy Age games after 2.
Quickwall pog
Nice
There are reasons why aoe2 is sucessful and other old RTS not and new aoes not as succesful as aoe2. The grid system, the isometric graphics, both play a very important role in that. Quick walling is a consquence and removing it would be stupid. It's also good to have a reason to bring some archers or skirms with your rush...
I mean when I think about age of empires, I think about strategies, building an empire, having fair grounded battles, strategically making units to counter other units, using the map to your advantage etc. Those are the attributes that come to mind that makes it great. Nobody ever thinks about nonsensical brain-dead lazy mechanics like quick walling to be there in age of empires 1 and 2. You would only expect something like that from Fortnite which is obviously targeted towards very young kids for a reason. It genuinely blows my mind that much of the aoe community supports quick walling. Just because other games have silly mechanics, that doesn't mean that aoe should also have silly mechanics. Success also doesn't determine good games. There are many successful games that are not good at all.
I dont believe those pathing clips were real with the pathing in aoe2
Could've prevented all this by using the bestagons....
AoE IV has quick walling, though it only works with walls and is less op as in AoE II.
Wasn't it Derpina, who did the vill quickwall trap first? (the 4 palisade walls) To be popularized by TaToh and only then to be adopted by TheViper.
I haven't heard about that, do you know more of the story? Would love to hear it
@@Tiramis_ actually, as by derpina's own post (in that thread I linked) it seems like co-evolution. Derpina used what TaToH was already doing to improve on it and that resulted in the 4 pali quickwall trap.
3:05
Ooooooof
Id rather idle my TC and eco to trap a scout because its a morale victory
100%
I don't think it is the "grid system" that makes quick-walling so effective. It is more a question of the speed at which villagers can create an obstacle (if the player can click fast enough).
First, I want to note that many games have buildings that are similar in size ratio (building:unit) as AoE2. Starcraft, Starcraft 2, and the other Age games (especially AoM, AoE3, and AoE4) all have similar building:unit size ratios. You will find that players in all games use buildings as "walls" or as part of "walls" (in SC and SC2, all "walls" are made out of buildings, as there are no formal "walls"). Also, of these games, only AoE2 has a "bulky grid." The other games all have a "fine grid."
SC2 does not have much in the way of "quick walling" because (A) construction is much slower, so the building doesn't gain health so quickly, and (B) buildings are more expensive relative to their survivability. This means that even a relatively small group of enemy units can quickly destroy cheap buildings, and even the biggest, most expensive buildings can be destroyed by a moderately sized enemy army.
The Age series (especially AoE2) make buildings much, much tankier until at least Age 3, even into Age 4. You basically need siege equipment to quickly destroy buildings in that game.
AoE4 reduces quick walling by getting rid of the cheapest options. Walls are more restricted in how they can be placed, which makes quickwalling with cheap walls very difficult. Meanwhile, houses and mills and other "cheap" buildings are still quite expensive.
In short, it is the cheap cost and high tankiness of buildings that really makes quickwalling effective, moreso than the grid system.
2:03 Image de la maison: celle de AoE1
Taille de la maison: Celle de AoE1
Image du forum: Celle de AoE1
Taille du forum: Celle de AoE2
Ouais le forum de AoE1 ne fait clairement que 2 maisons de côté
Why isn't the melee trooper destroying the foundation?
They could, but the villager builds and repairs faster than a single military unit damages. So even if the villager traps himself in open field, it's often more efficient to let it be there and send your troops elsewhere!
thats the fortnite effect!
Jackson Margaret Moore Daniel Clark Michael
First
Faster than DauT dropping quick-walls
White Brian Williams Barbara Martinez Elizabeth
Martin Scott Miller Anthony Martinez Jessica
Just ad a 1 second delay before starting to build a foundation and that would erase most of the quick walling.
or walking trough buildings until certain percentage.
@@nelsonmejiaslozada9362 but then what happens if the unit stays in the foundation? is building halted at that percentage? does the unit get trapped inside? ejected out?
But quick walling is a good thing for the game, why remove it? ^^
its not a problem that needs solving
@@dormitivevirtue probably the better way would be can't keep building, it is obstructed
1:30 sorry waaaat? a unit needs to take the shortest path? have you been playing AOE2 DE before?
11 even in the example the villager didn't want to take the shortest path
Not a bad video, I just wish it was more interesting. Maybe the topic was just too easily explained no complexity or twist to it
Competitive Aoe2 looks like fucking Fortnite because of this.
Buildings shouldnt be solid until they are 50% completed or something.
i Think quickwalling it is broken atm and is nonsense.
When Viper invented it in Voobly it was something genius because of lag and skill needed but today it is just boring and should be nerfed.
Thank you for this video, next one should be about the socially accepted abuse of split formations to avoid siege and ballistics.
Dude, you just dont like the game at this point, go play something else LOL
Isn't is GREAT when Players of different levels make the game more and more interesting? 😄👍
Of course The Viper is the one who improved the quick wall skill. That's what he does. GOAT.
Thank you, Tiramis. Another excellent video! 💪
M 🦘🏏😎