Jade Carey Floor Inquiry Explained from World Championships 2022
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- Опубліковано 12 вер 2024
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I hope Jade uses the frustration of this experience as motivation to come back even stronger next time. What she has accomplished in the past few years is remarkable.
That's the problem with submitting an inquiry sometimes. You're giving the judges an opportunity to review borderline skills under much closer scrutiny.
I'm glad for Jade in this case that it didn't lose her a medal (and also gained a medal for Rebeca) but yeah submitting an appeal is always a risk.
right! and she said the reason they did was they felt she had done the same routine as before so that's interesting. Can Chellsie Memmel weigh in on any inquiries? or is it just between the athlete and their coach?
Thw judges wwre not "picking on her" - they only deducted this because they were REQUIRED to go through the VIDEO FOOTAGE of her whole floor routine, due to the Inquiry being lodged. They'd have done the same for any gymnast whose routine they had to go through and watch on video
And her other dance moves also should have been downgraded but they didn't.
WOW, this is a first. So far, everyone is disagreeing on here and offering their own point of view without hurling insults at one another or degrading the athletes at issue.
Yeap, but in the other competitions judges judged with naked eye. When you submit an inquiry this things can happen.
Thank you for this, I've been waiting for an explanation. I watched her routine so many times on slo mo trying to figure out where they could have devalued a skill. It didn't occur to me that an L hop is supposed to be *above* horizontal. The inconsistency in judging is frustrating and it seems like the judges wanted to penalize her to discourage inquiries.
Judging in qualification should have been harsher, so that they don't just aim for "minimum" on those dance elements. ☠ Before that, Jade's L hop was devalued at Olympics either in QF / AA.
Can you do a breakdown of Jessica because she seems overscored to me, just looking.
@@TM-tmm she was insanely overscored every time. I hope they do break down her scores. The domestic scoring in Britain for the worlds was worst than in the US for the American cup(s)
Bullshit. She wasn’t over scored at all, her E scores have been consistently low to mid 8’s for the past two years. Flipflytumble has done a video of her beam.
NONE of the judges were British.
@@viclit101 lol sure. I know how judging works, thanks. There is always domestic advantage. and her FLOOR was egregiously over scored, especially compared to how the others were scored.
Also, you can’t compare last quads scores to this quads scores. It’s a different COP. Comparing her 2001 scores to now is useless and she’s only competed outside of the UK once, at the Europeans. The other three scores were domestic scoring. It’s like comparing any other countries homes scoring, like the US championship to the US classic.
If they weren't going to credit this, then either the judges were too lenient the other times or stricter this time. 🤷♀️
Perhaps the code needs to clarify further what "above horizontal" means in terms of °? But then again, Jade's leap doesn't look like the graphic so there's that.
Thanks again for the detailed breakdowns, Emily.
The exact same thing happened with Andrade's double spin. The EF spin was not validated, but it was very similar to what she did in qualifying and in the AA, which was considered complete in both.
@@joaopedrosg1993 I don't think they should have credited at least three of Andrade's spins - her heel was down well before the completion of the skill, which is probably why she stumbled afterwards.
If they're going to downgrade skills, the judges need to be consistent, regardless of the fact that the panels change with every competition.
@@chewiegym2765 That's exactly my point. I agree that most of her spins should not be credited, but this shows the inconsistency of the evaluation by the judges.
maybe they were trying to give Jess as much of a cushion as possible? jkjkjk
@@joaopedrosg1993 I agree with you! It shouldn't just be tighter scoring on floor because it's the floor final! 🤦♀️
Props to Jade for being so cool, because she has the right to be pissed off. The judges were extremely strict to her all of the championships.
Did she win bronze?
Jade Carey deserves so much better than the scores and attention she gets. Her performances are all but perfect, and I’ve seen a couple that indeed looked perfect. She is a class act and a genuinely very nice person. I hope she gets to attend every competition befitting her focus, skill, and ambitions. I also hope she is treated as she deserves in the future. Kudos for the way she demonstrates teamwork and caring.
Jade comes across as such a sweet humble person!
100%.
Thank u for the helpful video! Double L turn has been judged strictly, and now L hop as well. Dance elements are really recipes for devaluation, depending on the strictness of judging.
I thought it was because she didn’t complete the 360 turn. That seems more plausible. Her leg position looks fine especially if you consider we’re watching from an overhead angle (so drawing lines like you did on the video is a bit misleading because the perspective is different)
It’s this type of thing is why I encouraged my kids to go into track and field. It’s you and the clock. Hard to argue Someone did or didn’t run 10. 05 secs for a 100 meter dash. Gymnastics and figure skating are too subjective with what constitutes artistry and judges are inconsistent in what they will or will not credit. Js
exactly the reason why i chose swimming when younger, however recently started gymnastics and learned the cop and becomed a judge just to know what actually is happening behind the scores and what I've noticed is that in reality its way better system than what i originally could imagine (although obviously not even close to as accurate as a clock)
All of the arguing about overscoring aside, the biggest problem with floor scoring this worlds was its inconsistency, which is well demonstrated in this video. And lowering by an additional tenth, when the same hope had been counted several times already in the same competition, feels an awful lot like retalation for the inquiry.
The second-biggest problem is the new code itself, which I think is the source of all of the inconsistency. Artistic deductions should be at least vaguely comprehensible to an audience, and they shouldn't be of a large enough magnitude that Jessica's E score was two tenths higher than Jordan's, considering their differences in tumbling form and landings, and considering that Jordan's artistry is excellent from any normal standpoint.
The main issue of Jordan's floor is her leaps, particularly gogean and switch side half. There are more body shape and precision deductions on Jordan than Jessica.
The judges only had the opportunity to review this skills much closelly this time because of the inquiry. That is the problem with inquiries. Fun fact: In her interview, Rebeca said that you only should inquire if you are very sure about your routine; Rebeca had her inquiry approved on balance beam during all around at the olympics (:
@@cocoroni1031 That's fair and I do see that. But I think there's something wrong with the code when those things outweigh Jordan's advantage in tumbling form, which is impeccable, and landings, which are excellent.
@@arlon9097 This is a fair point. But the judges still downgraded the skill here by a tenth initially, where they did not in three previous performances this meet where it looks exactly the same. That's still a problem.
@@erinm9445 It can be a problem for humans (error prone) to have to evaluate in real time. Probably if the judges re-evaluated all routines using videos they would often find deductions they could not see naked eye, especially in terms of execution.
How generous of jade to give Rebecca and extra medal lmao Queen shit
Time to start using that technology to define D score
Considering how arbitrary the scoring looks atm: yes, give it a try!
as great as it would be, it's rather impossible with how little money there is to gymnastics
@@hannibaljustincase9985 that’s not the issue at all, the issue is that it would make scoring take ages
@@josephqualtier961 depends on what are we talking about. I didn't think of humans analyzing anything but rather of a technology similar to hawk-eye
They’ve been trying since 2018/2019, but it’s not as easy as it seems. Would be cool if/when technology can get up to standard
Ehhhh, it says above horizontal. She was just at. Also, I think she was bringing her leg down before she completed the full 360. As for why she got away with it previously, it depends on if they were different judges or not. Some are more strict to the code than others. Or they’re just blind.
they also haven't focused on requirements of this skill at judging courses as much as other leaps so a lot probably are unfamiliar with the expectations
Great explanation. Thank you.
Jade really shouldn’t be doing anything that allows judges a second look at her leaps or artistic elements. Not her strong suite at all.
I don't see why this skill is so popular. If I were her choreographer, I would try to hide the potential deduction here with another skill - in this case maybe a hop wolf/cossack full jump. If it is the same value (I don't know) visually the bringing up of the support leg to the wolf position makes the extended leg seem horizontal at minimum and it also has the benefit of masking a minor bent leg.
It's a horrible skill in terms of aesthetic. There are so many dance skills in the code that gymnasts and coaches ignore nowadays, and I wish this was one of them!
This is the only C element that is easy to catch for these athletes(Jordan, Shi, Mykalya...). Wolf full jump is a B element, she doesn't have the skills to do rings(most of them being C or higher) on floor so that is huge limitation
Meanwhile Gadirova's split 1.5 was not round (90 degrees short) but still got credited. This is some sketchy judging and they're not even trying to hide it.
Edit: You can pause in slow motion to see that it's not round. And it's evident as it was NOT credited 2 out of 4 times (during Qualification and Team Final).
Her split 1.5 was round. It’s one of the best out there
Her split 1.5 was rounded for credited. If you refer to split 1.5 with 90-degree short, it's Jordan's attempt.
@@FlipFlyTumble I'm sure you've seen the comments all over the internet slating Jess for essentially breathing in this competition.
Thanks for confirming AS A JUDGE that I, and others, are not seeing things.
@@chewiegym2765 I know, can we all stop blaming Jess? If anyone has a problem it should be with the judges, not her.
@@cassiusily People are mostly "blaming" the judges... but a lot of them are trashing Jess while they're at it. She's barely 18 and they're practically cyber-bullying her.
The way many "fans" talk about both Jessica and Jade on social media is completely unacceptable.
Ok but why did she submit an inquiry in the first place? What was it that they already weren’t crediting before they devalued the hop?
A double tuck jump or double straight jump is a C and she wouldn’t have to worry about whether judges want to credit her leg being high enough that day. I don’t have a problem with them not crediting the L-hop 1/1 but it looks the exact same as all her others. All of them shouldn’t have been credited the n
those are harder than they seem and harder to get round! also she couldnt use it for her leap series. better off doing a simple switch leap tbh
@@FlipFlyTumble they definitely aren’t easy hence it being a C skill but idk. I think both Jordan and Jade could utilize double tucks, straight jumps or cat leaps. I never made it past level 7 and could execute a double tuck jump. They could definitely do it if that sort of jump suits them. I was just trying to say the leg up and split jump variety of dance elements on floor have very strict requirements and it might be better to avoid those elements if they aren’t being credited anyways. (Much like ring switch & leaps being discredited.)
I 'm all for Jade and even more since watching college gymnastics but all I can see is people saying she was robbed and Jessica gifted the title but each to their own. However i feel for Jordan she was in 2nd place with a great routine and a lower difficulty than the others, if she had won Jade was still robbed. If Jade's difficulty was not downgraded she still would be not of beaten Jordan.
I hope Jade makes it to the 2024 as she is constantly improving and more graceful than she was in the last cycle hopefully her difficulty will be back up to level of 2021 6.3
Well done to all the medalist each have own uniqueness that they bring to the floor
Something I don’t understand is, for pirouettes they count when you drop
Your heel, however with jumps, why they don’t count when your feet actually leaves the ground? If you look at this video slowly, she literally only does half turn in the air, the other half is pretty much done on the floor,do judges also devalue this? I doubt it
I also wonder where they start counting the turn because from watching this I had assumed the devaluing was because it was nowhere close to 360.
the start of the leap is the direction of run approach, not where you are facing when your feet leave the ground. it’s not necessarily something i agree with but that’s the rule
That’s objectively garbage. I truly hate that for Jade.
Always appreciate your videos, Emily. Thank you.
Jade basically gifted Rebeca bronze and after all even if they'd credit her with 6.1 it wouldn't be enough for gold so maybe she isn't too pressed about it
@@hannibaljustincase9985 weirdly, gifting people with medals they didn’t earn isn’t the goal of competition or inquiry. like any normal person, I’m certain that she cares that her routine was unfairly devalued.
@@SociallyDistantnow of course. my point was that at the end there was no negative outcome for Jade- she was in the same place medal wise as before inquiry. and I'm sure she got plenty of Brazilian fans that day.
@@hannibaljustincase9985 she returned the favor after winning gold on vault! hahaha
@@hannibaljustincase9985 as an Andrade fan myself, I don’t hate the outcome for that reason 😊 it definitely could’ve ended worse. I just wish we had a better way of scoring competitions. Human error + biases + opaque scoring makes following this sport confusing and frustrating at times.
The americans need to drop that skill. It's hurting their overall artistry score, rightly or wrongly, it comes across as a bit of a cop out dance move and takes away from the performance as it feels out of place.
You'd have thought USAG would have taken note about leaps and deductions after the Kara Eaker beam debacle! Evidently they haven't, and they can no longer rely on just having amazing tumbling!
this is not considered artistry, but it would hurt their E score for sure
@@FlipFlyTumble judges are subjective. They definitely taken routine construction into account when considering overall impression and how that impacts their judging. These hops just seem so out of place. Same with wolf turns, they never get built into the routine.
Just to be clear: (Ignoring the leg for a second) they downgraded the turn from a 360 to a 180, then downgraded it again to a 360? 🤨
Yes, because the original judges felt her leg was up for only 180º. The inquiry judges (different panel watching from video) felt the leg wasn't up at all so it was credited as a normal 360 hop
@@FlipFlyTumble Ah. So the first downgrade was because of the leg, not the rotation on the hop.
@@grainnej985 yup!
Komova was underscored in 2012 ... SUE ME !! HAHAHAHHAAHHA...
I said in many other platforms and I say it again. Judging was weird, I don't care about the outcome of the medals, but the distance between 1st placer and 2nd-3rd was faarrr too great. It should've been a nail bitter going either way to 1st placer and 2nd placer at that particular final.
Sin Martha Karoly y sus tranzas, por fin se está ejerciendo un justo jueceo???
So ridiculous. Cannot believe the judges credited that as a fucking A skill
tbh she’s lucky it even counted as an A. it barely looks like she made the 360 to me and she could’ve lost her leap requirement
TODAS as ginastas performam esse giro com a perna a 90º, incluindo a Jordan Chiles, Makayla Skinner, etc. e sempre é creditado.. não entendi o q aconteceu.
Exactly!!! They were being unfairly harsh toward her while wayyyy overscoring Gadirova 😒
Mas todas elas pelo menos completam, a Carey nem isso
Jordan’s is better, her leg is much higher
Wow that is absurd! That is retaliation for submitting an inquiry, if I ever saw it. My faith in the integrity of WAG judging is diminished after this world championships. It was all around a dumpster fire.
It isn't retaliation. Normally it's judged in real time, for an inquiry they use video slow-mo making stuff noticable that wasn't in realtime
Il y a une totale absence de chorégraphie et elle n'est pas pénalisée ou si peu elle ne mérite pas un podium de wag mais de tumbleuse, ce n'est pas la même discipline FIG.
Pareil en poutre, elle est surnotée, il n'y a ni sauts ni chorégraphie
Elle devrait faire du tumbling ou du trampo
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
So the judges cheated for her. That isn't new. She also cheated her other to dance moves too (pay close attention to where she started vs finished) I knew the judges cheated for her and this is just more proof.
That's so picky omg
This was complete BS!.. all the Americans were extremely strictly evaluated by the judges in Liverpool on men's and women's side. I didny agree with alot of the scoring and or execution scores!😡😡😡
Like Jordan she is been robbed.