Dark Souls Dissected #15 - Vagrant Lore
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- Опубліковано 19 чер 2024
- In today's episode we're going to do a bit of lore speculation to try and find out why Vagrants / Drift Items even exist in Dark Souls, and if there's any kind of in-universe logic as to what they are.
0:00 Introduction
0:48 All Official Resources on Vagrants
2:44 How the Devs (Probably) Created Them
6:58 Trying to Understand What They Are
13:49 - Conclusion / Closing Words
/ illusorywall
Special thanks to Erik Peabody for some audio production tips:
/ vikingguitar
Concept Art Translation:
/ lokey_ds
www.abyssalarchive.com/
Ununtrium's blog post:
/ dark-souls-filianores-...
Soulslore wiki post:
soulslore.wikidot.com/data:pri...
Ciretose's reddit post:
/ dragons_crystals_and_t... - Ігри
George Parr asked about tsukomogami; In Japanese folklore these are items that acquired a spirit over time and turns into a supernatural entity of sorts. I do think this was likely part of the inspiration behind things like the Titanite Demons, Vagrants, and Crystal Lizards.
Samuel Diamond asked about the Crystal Lizards of the Great Hollow; They have a unique mechanic where, because there's a lot that can potentially spawn there, they're all set to have a randomized chance to spawn (something close to a 1/3 or 1/4 chance IIRC). This is a weird mechanic for a Souls game, I can't think of any other examples out of all of their games where an enemy has a fixed spawn location but you have to reload multiple times to play with that RNG to actually see all of them. I've wondered if this is additional evidence of the devs trying to think outside the box with Crystal Lizard spawning/despawning mechanics. Maybe making them be able to travel from other players games was going too far, and they settled for having one spot in the game where they can still come and go randomly; albeit without invoking network features.
Unrelated to lore stuff, a while back I made a high quality GIF of the Demon's Souls crystal lizard doing its disappearance dance. Enjoy:
i.imgur.com/jz5m3oz.gif
I cracked the code. The lizards warped to Ash Lake, take a swim in that "sea" and like it so much they turn into crab.
But seriously great video. I have always been fascinated by this part of Dark Souls and this pretty much what i concluded. Oolacile magic, the transposing kilns, and the crystal lizard ability to manipulate space and time are all connected in some way. I think this also include the Ashen Mist Heart of DS2 or dragon magic if you want to call it that, letting you break causality by going to the past through someone's memory. Although it seems the magic of the dark soul can achieve similar result if we look at Manus transporting you in the past. Also I wonder if there is any significance to the animation the crystal lizard do before disappearing...
Oh and I am sure you know about this but there is that cousin to the crystal lizard called the Rock Lizard in Archdragon Peak. They seem to have evolved from a different rock. (dragon part?) They know how to breath fire too. And the giant crystal lizards in DS3 reinforce your parallel between that species and Vagrants. The description of Titanite Scale says: "In rare cases, Crystal Lizards devour souls, growing to monstrous proportion and leaving these great scales" They absorb more souls than their siblings and get stronger and violent. Much like anything else absorbing a lot of the Dark Soul.
Edit: Also i called the Ashen Mist Heart "dragon magic" but it's pretty misleading. I should have just called it fog magic or magic of the Age of Ancients.
Another example of fixed spawn enemies that have RNG to "spawn" are the Invader Forlorn of DS2. Those poor souls who lost their physical body in Aldia's experiments and exist now only as Red Phantoms shifting from world to world for eternity. Only the one in Huntman's Copse will invade 100% of the time, the others only have a chance to invade at their designated spawn point.
Edit: Thought of some other examples from DS2. The Mad Warrior as a RNG normal spawning enemy in the Belfry Sol, and the very slim chance for the docile piglet to spawn at the Royal Army Campsite in Brightstone Cove that will follow you down to the chapel instead of the hostile pig like 99.9% of the time.
It's a rather out there idea. The moon is connected to magic in Demon's Souls and Dark Souls, yes? If you look at the pure moonstone and darkmoonstone (the stones that create weapons that scale on magic) they both have the shape of a crescent moon. Now, what shape does the Crystal Lizard take in Demon's Souls as it does its little celebration dance and disappears? A crescent moon! Could it be its performing some kind of magic spell to teleport away?
Also of interest for the design of the Vagrant is perhaps the Pure version of Marrowstone. it is a base of white ore tinged by red with many spikes sticking straight up out of the top of it. It drops from bloodsucking insects and the crystals are said to have formed from the minerals inside human blood.
The Crystal Lizards of Great Hollow could have a much simpler explanation: the devs want you to fall.
They expect players to fall a couple times their first run. These lizards, that you have to chase after, spawn all over in odd areas and at random times.
It's slapstick comedy... it's a "greed trap." You try, you fail, you fall, you go back, and it's gone. Some other random playthrough or death later you find it again and you just might fall the same way... "hilarious."
random little tidbit i find interesting to consider, the orange charred ring causes the creation of the centipede demon in much the same way in lore as vagrants are made, through a dropped and lost item
orange charred ring
"An orange ring enchanted by a witch. Reduces lava damage. Since his sores were
inflamed by lava from birth, his witch sisters gave him this special ring. But fool that
he is, he readily dropped it, and from that spot, a terrible centipede demon was born"
If you notice, Ceaseless Discharge is missing an arm. That arm is likely the Centipede Demon. I don't know if it was always an independent creature that was subservient to the body (like the spider and Quelaag) until he foolishly got it lopped off, or if the ring only gave it consciousness _after_ the arm was separated from Ceaseless Discharge. The text of the ring would suggest the latter.
It is kinda cute how the Witches of Izalith care for their brother
Damn that guy really doesn't ever catch a break, even the item descriptions shit on him
So that begs the question: Why does that ring produce so many more l e g s ?
@@ootdega If it was a very personal item, it could have been infused with something akin to humanity. The residents of Izalith were not human, but the Chaos Flame was an experiment to recreate the power of the First Flame, was it not? It isn't too much of a stretch to say that there is something akin to humanity in the Witch's children.
We've all seen the Zully the Witch video about Havel's Ring in DS3, and how items can grow into creatures given enough time. The idea that Ludleth doesn't forge the items but instead uses the kiln to time travel a soul to a point where it has grown into a weapon is extremely compelling. Good video
I have never seen that video and can't seem to find it, do you happen to remember the title?
@@filippofavaro4836 Here, ua-cam.com/video/lGCv61XPhvY/v-deo.html
@@FlawezZ Thank you very much!
@@filippofavaro4836 what's the title?
@@aprussianmann727 " Where did he come from? "
Apparently things in real life also have a tendency of evolving into crabs, wonder if that had any hand in their creative process.
Claw-detaka Crab-azaki
It's crabs all the way down
That's pretty funny, but I doubt it. I think we're just particularly likely to say that because it's become a meme relatively recently, but realistically that's not a very well known thing.
@@nvrndingsmmr it is a well known phenomenon actually, scientifically named Carcinization
Granted, memes have blown it out of proportion for comedic effect, but it's a real (if not as dramatic) thing
@@brunop.8745 Not to over explain or remove the fun from a meme, but it is a teachable moment for anyone that doesn't know and might avoid the spread of misinformation.
Carcinization is about crustaceans developing into evolutive convergence. To say that things are evolving into crabs is not only over simplistic, it is also wrong. It only applies to crustaceans, and even then it isn't something turning into crabs, but developing similar aspects to fulfill similar tasks. That would be like saying that bats and bugs are evolving into birds because they have wings now.
I kind of miss when From Soft had weird stuff that most people would never see/use in their games
Yeah, Elden Ring was a fantastic exploration of the open world design concept, but I think Dark Souls and Bloodborne are still going to live on much longer. Elden Ring gets to a point where I feel like we are in control of the world, but Dark Souls never feels that way. It's especially good before getting the Lord Vessel, but even after that it feels like we're mere visitors. I think most of this comes from how enclosed it was, but it also comes from how mysterious everything is as well. ER has some of this, but it isn't nearly the same.
I'm pretty sure any game had at least 1 thing you rarely ever see, but it's true there's no unique enemy like the vagrant
@@lukesmith9455 nostalgia bias, once you get the lord vessel you are as much as in control of dark souls' world as you are at "some point" in elden ring
Maybe we will discover odd and obscure things in elden ring yet.
Plenty of small unique interactions in Elden Ring, its just not as bodacious as DS1; mainly weapon combos, armor altering, etc…. I do concur with the desire to have more of these like features, representative of DS1, but not the criticism of Elden ring. The feeling of control you mentioned may simply be due to the difference in game design, having a large open world makes shit different. I’ll say that many areas outside the legacy dungeons lack that feeling of DS excitement as I explore, but I never feel safe. These games are great at managing ego.
The Ravenous Crystal Lizards in DS3 also transformed into a hostile creature after "devouring souls" which further supports the theory that crystal lizards can somehow be corrupted.
Also DS2 has the Red crystal lizards which explode.
There are also the Man-Eater Shells which are similar to vagrants.(They have multiple insect-like legs and a "shell" of some kind)
I love the red exploding Crystal Lizard of DS2. I thought of it while making the video but don't have any insight as to what's going on there. Besides that it's really cool. 😅
Maybe the red crystal lizard absorbed some explosive tools from the Brightstone Cove Tseldora miners? Wait there is no such thing as dynamite in Dark Souls, they just use pickaxe don't they? Nevermind, i tried...
Edit: Damn you are right there is plenty of explosives with firebombs, black powder and those barrels. I forget the most obvious things.
@@N0UKA there is gunpowder at least or something similar, with black firebombs and exploding barrels.
@@joshmay2944 ^This. One can presume that Red Crystal Lizards are born from firebombs.
It should also be noted that the Man Eater Shells drop Twinkling Titanite, the only enemies that drop them besides Crystal Lizards. They only have five legs though, but the inside of the shell is filled with skulls, which may be the Purging Stones, which they also drop, and its description says it used to be a person (they don't heal the curse status, they essentially absorb the curse), while the description of the Twikling Titanite says its origin is not clear. If they're supposed to come from dragons, then it's possible they were being held by the people the Mean Eater Shell ate?
I'm no expert on this but in Japanese folklore there are creatures called tsukumogami, which from what I've read are said to be household objects that have been around so long that they can develop a soul or spirit through lack of use, and can then become malevolent. Could have been an inspiration?
I wonder if this might be lore-related to the Doll in Bloodborne.
The Doll in the abandoned workshop has presumably existed for long time, before the Hunters Dream existed. When you find it, abandoned just the same as the workshop you discover it in, one of its fingers is twitching very subtley. That has some pretty interesting implications for both the Doll in the dream and the Winter Lanterns, whose concept also draws from Japanese folklore.
Yeah, that's the connection that I've always drawn. Dark Souls' Humanity might even give a mechanism for exactly how those objects become animate. I personally think it is highly likely that tsukumogami were in the minds of the folks at FROM when they were designing Vagrants. If we could talk to them (and they'd be willing to answer), they could probably quite easily confirm or deny if that was the case
"BRO I SWEAR TO *GOD* IF SOMEONE DONT DRINK FROM ME IMMA HAUNT TF OUT THIS HOUSE"
-Cup Tsukumogami
@@h3069 that's exactly it: you'd be driven insane if your only purpose was denied to you.
it gets better: japanese folklore is very animistic, attributing any object as having a spirit/soul, a tsukumogami is an object whose spirit has gone mad and restless from disuse.
I just had a bit of a brain wave re: the pendant. Do you think maybe it was added as a way to subtly encourage players to spawn vagrants?
The logic being: Give players a completely useless item, they drop said item, said item starts drifting through worlds in the process to become a vagrant.
I know Miyazaki has admitted the pendant was just a troll, but honestly that just makes my theory even MORE compelling (and also unfalsifiable, fancy that). He tells us that the pendant is useless and it was just a joke, making us EVEN MORE likely to drop it.
I think that might be part of the reasoning. To a greater degree I think that applies to Rubbish, the only obviously "trash" item that can be used to spawn Vagrants (but when you think about it, it is still rare-- can't be easily farmed). The item description says "Who in their right mind would bother carrying this around?", which seems like a hint to drop it.
Had the same thought and came to see if anyone else had said it, neat that rubbish makes them too and is so clearly made to be dropped
While I think you're probably largely right, there's one thing I want to point out about Dark Souls crystal lizards, and their eight legs. You know what else has 8 limbs? Apart from Vagrants, the ancient dragons do. With the exception of Kalameet and those appearing in Dark Souls 2, all true dragons have four legs, and four wings. They were also known for their stone scales, much like how crystal lizards have glittering gems and stonelike bodies. Seath also has many in his cave, and he's obsessed with crystals in an attempt to recreate the stone scales of the everlasting dragons. You've also got the fully stone Rock Lizards in Archdragon Peak, and Midir with plenty of crystals growing out of him. I suppose it's not too much of a surprise, given that dragons are related to most every other reptile in the game in some way, but it's an interesting set of close connections. I don't know how that relates to your vagrant theory, but maybe there's something there.
I really love this community
The little pods they have on their heads that look like Fungus sprouts also appear on Oceiros, who was attempting to become a Dragon and it related to Seath through mutual experimentation.
That, when combined with the Pus of Man in DS3 becoming Wyverns, and the existence of the Path of the Dragon, seems to indicate that Dragons and Humanity are the same. Dragons are just an evolved form of Humanity, and humans are just a different form of Dragons.
Also lends credence to the cycle of Dark Souls; where do the Dragons come from during the Age of Archtrees? They come from the humans during the Age of Man. And the humans during the Age of Man, come from the intervention of the Gods.
Yeah, I've always thought that crystal lizards were linked to dragons in some way. Maybe vagrants are to humans what crystal lizards are to dragons; beings spawned from what they left behind. There's a long standing theory that titanite was created by the Nameless Blacksmith Deity using the scales of ancient dragons, and it's possible that the crystal lizards get a bit of that original power. Twinkling titanite's pale white and slightly glowing appearance also reminds me of Seath. Perhaps after he abandoned pure dragon scales, he switched to a refined version of them, and then imbued them with his own strength, resulting in twinkling titanite. This would explain the number of crystal lizards in the Crystal Caves, as well as the man eater shells. Speaking of which, man eater shells might a type of creature in-between crystal lizards and vagrants. They have an insectoid appearance like vagrants, and drop purging stones (and have other human remains in their model). But they also only ever appear in the Crystal Caves and Ash Lake, both areas where a dragon lives.
There is something to be said about Dragons - who, by nature, existed prior to the advent of the First Flame, and therefore to Disparity - and a Vagrant's relationship to both Light and Dark.
The video already talked about the relationship between Vagrants and Dark. But Light is also present, both in the fact Vagrants shed it, and because it was established in DS3 that Light = Time.
So there's some loose connection between Crystal Lizards, Vagrants, and an attempted re-synthesis of Light & Dark. An attempt to reestablish or regress to the pre-Fire state of Dragons. Albeit in a lurching, haphazard fashion. The course of nature trying to right itself blindly and systemically.
We also see this motif present in another DS monster, the Basilisk, whose curse gas attempts to return the life-full, disparated creatures of the world back to grey stone. There's probably also something to be said about the fact that cursed people turn into statues made of or covered in black crystals. Something we see in Fillianore's egg and Ludleth's Transposing Kiln.
I think this connection can easily be added to the vagrant connection. If for no other reason than the Dragons age was somewhat static and without disparity. If there were an egg of some kind that can cross/pause time, it would be a dragon egg. Furthering the connection to Filianore’s egg and including the Vagrants into a connection with the lizards and Eternal Dragons
I imagine when they vanish, they're crossing worlds in the same way their resources or players did, of course. As for how they exist, in DaS1 we see a lot of examples of life being linked to stone and souls. Basilisks have an association with rock and eyes of death and curses. Clams as well to some extent. The true dragons were stone and existed throughout time. Even DLC pyromancies began combining weighted physical magic with pyromancy. A lot to talk about there, but the basic lesson is that the basic rules of the universe mean that where souls and power are, if unclaimed, can become alive in some form. Especially if shifting through space time. It makes you wonder if vagrants aren't just moving around lordran, but also are moving to the beginning and ends of time. Until, after a billion years of life and jumping through space time like we move through doors in a mansion, a shaved ape sees it and smashes its head in because OOO SHINY UGG!
I never noticed until this video at 8:48 that the titanite demons ‘head’ is shaped like an anvil, probably further signifying the connection of the nameless blacksmith deity to the slabs.
Why is he nameless?
Like "Velka" and "Nameless King", he was struck from the annals.
@@core-nix1885 No I don’t think that’s true of the Nameless Blacksmith Deity, I think he either didn’t have a name or nobody remembers his name now, there doesn’t seem to be any indication he fell out of favour with the Lords. He was probably a giant and it is probably his skull you see in Ash lake. He likely made Gwyn’s armour, Smoughs armour, the Chloranthy ring and Avelynn based on the flower patter being his makers mark. He also was the only one who had slabs and the places we find slabs likely indicate where he had travelled to.
@@supersymm3try You're invoking Hawkshaw; I've seen the vid and agree with it, but I think NBD was part of the plot against the Gods.
He has ties to Izalith and the Daughters of Chaos are said to have gone to war with the Old Ones (which is another name for Lords/Great Soul Inheritors, not Dragons).
This is echoed in DS3 with the Lothric Black Knights warring against the Demons.
Black Knight Armour is said to be burnt by the Kiln but their Shields are said to be burnt by Chaos.
Hello fellow hackshaw enjoyer
@@Godskineater spent about a 2 month period going to sleep listening exclusively to Hawkshaws channel, such good dark souls lore content.
My favorite weird online mechanic are the bells of awakening that you can hear from other people's worlds. Playing near them being silent now that the servers are down is quite sad.
Yup. It was always nice hearing them. They gave me encouragement to keep going foreward whenever I heard them when I was starting out
Same. My first couple times playing I had no idea what was happening or why the bell kept ringing in the burg. It totally blew my mind when i learned that it was others ringing the bell in their game and that one obscure little mechanic stuck with me more than most entire games have
I love the use of Demon's Souls music.
I think that was a very reasonable lore explanation for them, the crystal lizard connection and with the DS3 are very interesting, i had no idea for example that the egg was made of crystal lizards!
And a bit related, since the PTDE servers will never ever go online again... I wonder who was the last person who saw a vagrant in that game. They saw essentially the last of its kind. Thankfully we still have the remaser servers, but it's sad to think that Vagrants are extinct in PTDE.
To my understanding, there wasn't a final player to see them because the game isn't truly 100% offline and someone will probably get one again in PtDE:
old.reddit.com/r/darksouls/comments/yddhhq/will_i_be_able_to_play_online_with_mods_after_the/iugz2jy/
Theory’s that are backed up by ingame mechanics, concept art, and just general occam‘s razor thinking are what I live for
Honestly I would also look to things like the Bottomless Box/Symbol of Avarice descriptions. Items, feelings becoming true entities of malice is a very in-universe thing. Items that passions are attached to can become stronger, imbued with those passions. The box these things are stored in can become a monster itself, so to me these could be a form of that, just without the box to mould their shape
The orange charred ring is also similar
I'm pretty sure their designs are based on Angel's Egg.
Given that it's almost directly referenced with Filianore I feel like it makes sense for these egg-like things to also be a reference to it
Dark Souls needs more whalers and shadow fish.
The problem is Filianore is so blatantly a reference including in how her egg works and what she does, while vagrants just sorta look like the egg the reference has.
Eggs and Ecks (X).
See also: *Annex* Key, 10 (X) Estus at a Keeper's Bonfire, "X"anthous King, *Crucifix* of the Mad King, *Crucifixion* Woods, Petrified Egg, Petrified *Something* and Quelaag's *Domain*
I was looking to see if anyone would mention Angel's egg haha couldn't get that out of my mind.
I agree and highly recommend watching Angel's Egg to those who missed it. It can easily be found here on UA-cam!
If to transpose something is to move it, then tying in with the idea of crystal lizards being time travellers, I think it's plausible that the transposing kiln doesnt turn the soul into a weapon, but instead takes it from a different time, using the soul as a sort of anchor point
Whirly thing goes in, weapon thing comes out
It’s also interesting that the crow nests which contain eggs can transmute items, and the egg-like behelit inspired eye orbs can phase you into other worlds. There seems to be some otherworldly power to eggs in dark souls.
I've always considered crystal lizards disappearing as an abstract way to represent losing track of them rather than a literal thing they do. If you've ever tried to kill a cockroach or catch a lizard invading your home you know what I mean - you get one shot and if you mess up it'll probably find some small unreachable hole to hide in :)
Giving that Filianore's egg is supposed to have cristal lizards inside,is it possible that cristal lizards are born from vagrants eggs? Maybe the egg is a living cocoon that eventually gives birth to the lizards. Or maybe the lizard IS a vagrant until the egg hatches.
There is a similar concept in the game with the egg burdened in Queelag's domain.
Banger video, illusory wall. I know you say lore isn't usually your thing, but I think the way you extrapolate the dev's intentions based off of your wide array of knowledge is extremely valuable in this community.
Alright since I am very early to this Video out of sheer luck I jsut wanted to give a big "Thank you."
The work you put in and the analytical flow of the videos really show how passionate you go out on these "eater egg hunts" for interesting information about the communities favorite video games. Keep it up.
i really like how the good vagrant is still mimicking the rotation of the item bag. this is so cute, i want one as a pet now 😻
Knowing Miyazaki if you manage to hold onto a Vagrant as it disappears it'll surely transport you straight to the door that only the pendant can open.
Heh.
New Dark Souls Dissected! Time to celebrate!
my bad. he did this topic before tho
DS1's online features outclass Elden Ring's in so many ways. The asynchronous features were so cool, especially compared to the covenant-less, poorly designed coop and pvp. I hope they bring stuff like that back
I like how golden leaves rain down Everytime another player becomes Elden lord
@@Garl_Vinland that's true, I forgot about that. The group passwords were a fun way to see other people's progress and give a small buff to players. If From could do more things like that I would be very happy
@@valorune I agree with what you said though. DS1 had some really innovative online ideas that stemmed from Demon's Souls and really pushed that feel of players actions affecting the "Economy" of other players. I loved how the Coronas were like this little mini game that only clerics could benefit from, or how Gravelords actively made other player's games harder until you could hunt them down.
Online in all the subsequent games just felt like it devolved into "Invade the player's world, kill the player." Which is fine, but i miss the mystery and nuance.
I guess these concepts were too smart for the players , since hardly anyone played Way of White, or Gravelord.
This is funnily one of the most sensible and down to earth souls lore video I have seen in a long while. The speculation goes exactly as far as it should and is very clearly stated when something is pure speculation. Also your voice is always really chill to listen to :)
I find Hawkshaw's lore videos similar to that, sadly doesn't upload often.
@@handtomouth4690 Usually he is good, but then he'll upload a complete factual history of Dark Souls and I'll find myself yelling "WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU SMOKING" at him.
@@handtomouth4690 Hawkshaw's videos are full of absolutely unhinged speculation.
I for one would like to see more of this kind of content; lore speculation on the overlooked things that don’t usually get talked about much.
I love that Iron Maiden reference. we are indeed strangers in a strange land. Great video, Illusory Wall!
Thank you!
@@illusorywall you’re welcome 😃
I’ve put so many hours in Dark Souls with out seeing a Vagrant yet. Can’t wait till I see my first one!
I literally saw my first one today, in New Londo. Coincidence or not, that video appeared in my recommendations.
I've played ds1 to death.
I've literally seen only one or two
I’ve only seen one, and it was before I got gud so it killed me 😅
Let’s start dropping stuff on purpose!
I have about 800+ hours and only managed to see the evil one 2 times
@@aquasomnus Am playing since pc release, only 1 good.
thank god for more dark souls 1 content. You made my day
I like this kind of speculatory lore video! Especially since you made sure to cite your sources and link to others' blog posts and such. Having used the Evil Vagrant as your avatar for so long, it's only fitting that you contribute something to the fan-lore about them! :)
Honey wake up new illusory wall
I think you did a great job with the lore crafting in this one. It’s a super interesting idea!
The amount of research and work you put in your videos is impressive which makes them very enjoyable to watch, great job
I just love that feeling i get when i see that you uploaded another fantastic video. THANK YOU AS ALWAYS BUDDY!
I love these kinds of videos. Tying together the developer's creative decisions and piece things together like a detective.
"They've never gone as far as DS1 in later titles"
Cries in blue eye orb.
Amazing video! your insight on mechanics and how they relate to possible lore is really interesting. I hope we can see more of these types of videos
Thanks for making this. I've been saying the ellionore theory forever but people just shoot it down because it's NECESSARY to speculate because we are working with IMPLIED evidence. I think you nailed it thank you again. Dont be afraid of speculation, it's not fair people accept implied things like Gwyn's first born but not things like that, the climax of the game and what it's showing us.
This video was really thoughtfully made. I know it's not your normal content, but you could easily fool someone that it was. I hope you make more videos like this if you get ideas for them, because I really enjoyed this one.
I love when mechanical analysis meets lore speculation; Zullie The Witch does it too. Would love to see more of these videos.
It's also implied that the orange charred ring became the centipede demon, so the theme of items becoming lifeforms is pretty pervasive in DS1. In that same vein, the Witch of Izalith and two of the daughters of chaos became bug creatures, and the chaos infusion is directly linked to humanity. Maybe vagrants started forming after the birth of the flame of chaos? Or maybe it just has to do with how the Dark Soul strengthens as the First Flame fades, vagrants are a tangible example of that.
As I've already mentioned to you once, these lore conjectures of yours are very insightful and welcome. Keep them coming!
I really liked this! You always put so much effort into your work, it's a pleasure.
Wow! This was amazing! Great lore pitch! I loved it!
So the world of Dark Souls has a bunch of critters jumping through the space-time continuum? I wonder how many "jumps" they have to make before the item they are carrying becomes a sonic screwdriver.
Or how many jumps till thay get home
Your first Vagrant video was the first of your videos I watched. Cool to see you revisiting them from a lore perspective
Honestly this theory makes too much sense given Dark Souls context, well done!
You mentioned the idea that dropped valuable items might be "less corrupted by Humanity" and become Good Vagrants, but it might just be the connotation of emotion. Strong feelings of attachment and love for an item could spawn the Good ones, whereas the pain and frustration of losing humanity over and over would spawn Evil ones. Dusk mentions feeling a lot of strong emotions in the Abyss, not all of which were inherently "bad", and the corrupted people of Oolacile kinda have rapid mood swings. It might be that something about the Dark Soul makes emotions way more visceral, which can both overwhelm people (Like Artorias and everybody else driven mad by the Abyss) and imbue these same emotions to lost items (Leading to the creation of Vagrants). Crystal Lizards would then be the excitement of treasure (The classic full-speed sprint straight at them and other shiny things), as well as possibly greed and avarice (Them becoming big monsters with enough souls).
11 years and there are still mysteries we don't understand.
Dark Souls is a masterpiece!
Awesome video dude! Always look forward to your uploads!
dig this sort of content! i love lore youtubers who keep game production in mind when analyzing stuff - feels like a very holistic way to view the series.
WE'RE BACK TO THE GOOD STUFF BABY
Hi the picture of the vagrant 2:03 at the bottom states きのこの也る穴, meaning the hole where the mushroom grows. the use of the kanji 也 is a rather obscure choice and is most likely a mistaken choice of words.
Also I always thought of them as hermit crabs that snuck into left over items and then attached sea anemonies(mushrooms in this case) as a form of protection.
I think the kanji is just roughly written 出
@@Setter153 Ya that is definitely right, even as a native Japanese person that person's hand writing was so bloody awful I couldn't even read it as 出 until I poked one eye out and looked at it through a smoke screen off the refection of a rusted mirror... Lmao Good catch on that!
Very cool video, id like to see you do more lore speculation like this in the future!
I think you nailed it lore and exploration wise. Thanks for keeping it interesting.
I also noted the similarities of Filianore's egg to Vagrants in my first playthrough of Ringed City. I didn't think it through at the time, but your video has helped stitch things together in a cohesive manner. Having vagrants and Filis egg share visual elements and both jump around timelines feels very deliberate, but i had never considered the connection to crystals and humanity.
In short, this was a very interesting video and i hope you make more like these!
The problem is that Filianore’s egg “jumping around timelines” isn’t what she’s doing - the dialogue from that hollow at the start of the area implies she’s simply creating an extensive illusion.
right as the video started i was thining about fillinore's egg, glad that later it is discussed. The connection between humanity and vagrants is too large for them to not be connected, along with fillinore's egg being a hybrid vagrant/transposing kiln that has been corrupted by humanity.
Loved the video. I was always appreciate what you bring to the table. Even with this more speculative stuff, it is interesting and thoughtful.
I will never forget my only encounter with a vagrant. I played DS1 for the first time in 2021. I was on my NG+2 playthrough and I was stuck on Gwyn. I had to do the run back to him a few dozen times. I did that run back to the point it was almost autopilot.
I was on the narrow bridge-like area. I would hang out by the pillar to bait the knight towards me and all of a sudden I got shot in the back by a vagrant. It really surprised me and shook me out of my autopilot. Out of nowhere an enemy was where it wasn’t supposed to be.
It wasn’t until I discovered your channel that I finally realized what that strange creature was.
Not related to the lore or anything but back when we had to use Old Wulf's server mod (the one where you picked a number in your little mod window), I would sometimes drop items before my friend summoned me to put vagrants in his world.
It was a fun bonus to spice up his first time through
"what's with those sick dance moves?"
Dropped what I was doing to come watch this one. Vagrants are so cool and interesting. Pre-DSR I feel like they were so elusive and rare, it was like finding a shiny pokemon
I think I saw a total of one vagrant ever before the remaster.
excellent video, your speculation was not unfounded, and was very logical, I would love to see stuff like this in the future. Keep up the good work man, I love your content
Excellent video! I've long held that elements like drift items moving around and becoming vagrants, titanite slabs becoming titanite demons, and the orange charred ring becoming the centipede demon---are great examples of the fidelity that Dark Souls has to the concept of 'conservation of energy' (unique among works of fantasy featuring magic). As that is an important feature of my analysis of the game, I'm happy to have an excuse to add the crystal lizards to that list.
At any rate, I'm very pleased to be seeing more content about Demon's Souls and Dark Souls 1 from you!
I love the vagrants they’re so cool
I wouldn’t brush off that in-universe connection to hackers, it’s almost the angle they were going with when creating Goldmask in Elden Ring. Externally he appears deep in idle contemplation. Internally he’s having a nervous breakdown because the Nox invented everything and Marika’s DNA test makes no goddamn sense.
absolutely loved the vid, great catches all around
Thank you as always for your work in digging up even new angles to pick at in such thoroughly combed over games. Excellent work! I agree with like 95% of all you posted here and it is a lot more than I've seen about vagrants anywhere else.
Do more lore videos! Focusing on weird unexplained enemies and set pieces and trying to make sense of it is very entertaining!
13:15 THE DANG MARIO MAKER NOISE AGAIN
I swear...seeing like 75% of the Dark Souls lore youtubers straight up either ignoring or missing how Filianore's egg looked exactly like a vagrant infuriated me back when the "ringed city" dlc came out.. i also had noticed the transposing kiln similarity but, to my shame, never noticed the kiln being formed by multiple lizards...thats just astounding to me!
Incredible video, for real
I really liked this video and how theory orientated the video was. Please consider doing more fo these in the future.
You could interpret the item "Evolving" into vagrants, which also explains why they look like crabs.
Carcinization.
You called
Its eternally a shame that vagrant mechanics never made it into other games
Thought it was awesome! Loved it had your usual tone as well :D
Huh this was super interesting! Would love to hear more of your theories on lore that's not fully fleshed out!
Let’s go!
The Japanese segment says "カラ" , meaning shell, and "きのこの出る穴", meaning "hole where mushrooms come out". They might be fungal in nature, and there's a few fungi that are parasitic to arthropods...
.... Hmmm...
Oh and almost missed it, below the picture (assuming it's the Japanese name for the Vagrants) calls them さまよう精霊, meaning Wandering Spirits, while apparently the evil ones are called さまよう人間性の精霊, meaning Wandering Spirit of Humanity.
Hmmmmmmm
(I'm a native but I've only played DS in English, since it's hard changing Steam region to JP :/ )
Awesome video, I loved how deep this hole went!
Oh hey, I wrote the Filianore essay that was briefly mentioned here, really happy to see it was included! Great video
Wooooohooooo! New video
7:27 Fellow Iron Maiden enjoyer, I see.
1st couple notes of Caught somewhere in time started loudly playing in my head, good job
In addition to lost items, vagrants can spring forth from lost player bloodstains. Spilt blood eventually manifesting as another creature. There is seemingly another enemy in the game that follows that pattern, the Hydra. Hydra appear in only 2 place, where true Ancient Dragon blood was been spilt a long time ago: Where Kalameet died @ the Royal Wood / Dark Root Basin and where a *bunch* of Dragons died @ Ash Lake. They don't quite follow the pattern of 8 though as they have 7 heads and 7 tails.
Humanity Sprites, which are basically frenzied humanity, have some kind of will of their own, as they will move toward you in the Chasm of the Abyss. The Evil Vagrants are probably just the docile vagrants that have been possessed by too many Humanity Sprites. So now the hostile vagrant has the same instinct to attack as the Sprites.
My guess is the red Crystal Lizards are another one of Aldia's experiments given Aldia's Keep is one of the 2 places it is found.
Vagrants, crystal lizards, and titanite demons might be a type yokai from japanese folklore then: abandoned itemes that have come to life. And sometimes yokai are translated as demons.
I beat the game and this is the first time I see this things…
Awesome video Bucky! New fascinating stuff even now, so cool :D
This is really interesting! Thanks for the speculation.
Given how vagrants are created, do you think it would be possible (when the servers for remastered are back up 🤞) to orchestrate an event where we just try to make as many vagrants as possible for like a day?
I would like to do that someday for sure!
I've finished DS1 at least two dozen times and I've only seen 2 vagrants total, both of them the evil variation, never seen the good one
this was bangin, thank you illusory wall daddy
This is a huge reminder of why I fell in love with Dark Souls. It's this kind of deep speculation that makes it so fascinating, and I've never even given a thought to vagrants since they're so rare
2:05 「きのこの出る穴」
"Hole that mushrooms come out of"???
Ooh nice, I assume that refers to the tendril-like bits that also double as projectiles. Wild stuff.
@@esuelle ググってみたら「辺る」とは日本語じゃないらしい。
Just out of curiosity, do you know what triggers the appearance of the glowing skulls on the floor in Elden Ring? The locations seem random enough to look multiplayer related but in offline mode they appear too.
I thought they were always in the same spots
Second this
I've only ever played offline cause my computer cant run it and i didnt wanna pay for ps plus again. Glowing skulls?
I'm on my holidays: I'm taking the rest of the year off.
In a couple of hours, I'll pop into Gamla Stan for a delicious lunch.
Do I have 15 minutes for some Dark Souls speculation?
*_OH, HELL, YEEEEEEEAAAAHHHH!!!!_*
i always liked how crystal lizards had lore you would find in the game, but just vague enough that you want to find more. i never thought that they might be related to the vagrants, which is genius! i can totally see them evolving and i love the lore ideas.
Headcanon accepted
the demon's souls crystal lizards look more like skinks than geckos
I think this speculation is fun and totally inbounds, given your caveats.
Great video.
The idea of an item sprouting life might seem out of place to us as westerns, but one of the literal mos common and popular kind of yokai is of abandoned/unused items after 100 years becoming sentient; they are called Tsukumogami. We as players percieve time in a weird way because of game mechanics, but if we think linearly from what your character is experiencing, any abandoned item is there for ages, and this universe they can ultimately evolve into a tsukumogami that then teleports to another world through other kinds of magic available here. In that sense it wouldn't be any different from one of those very common sandal, paper lantern or umbrella yokai we see everywhere in japanese media, like Kirby for an example.
Interesting to note that the implication of an item getting old enough to have a spirit, and the main differentiation between normal and "evil" vagrants being humanity, is that humanity and spirit is similar yet different; which is a point that DS1 makes all the time. People can't really pinpoint what the difference is, but it is there, and it is significant.