Caller's God Analogy Backfires SPECTACULARLY | Matt Dillahunty + Arden Hart
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- Опубліковано 17 вер 2024
- Sorry for no episode of Dying Out Loud tonight! We will return next Tuesday with the same lineup!
Amory presents an analogy that belief in God is like belief in germ theory before microorganisms were discovered. The host counters that pre-evidence germ theory believers would be coincidentally right but unjustified. Amory acknowledges his God belief lacks sufficient warrant.
When asked why he believes his particular God concept over alternatives, Amory evades answering whether he believes in other gods like Ra or Ganesha. Despite repeated attempts, the host fails to get a direct yes/no response, growing increasingly frustrated at Amory's evasiveness and ending the call.
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"It's like religion breaks your brain.". A single sentence that should become the slogan that explains the horrible side effects of religion.
I already have a slogan for religion: “A mind is a terrible thing to waste.”😜
Belief is a brain disease that causes irrational and illogical thinking. Religion feeds the brain disease known as belief. The purpose of religion is to break brains. Religion is a military strategy used to keep captives, captivated and slaves enslaved. The remedy to the brain disease known as belief is to read more non-fiction. for example, the dictionary and the encyclopedia.
@@FourDeuce01I agree with you. At the same time, however, I can't help but also be reminded of a comedy sketch which has the line: "Because the mind is a terrible thing. And it must be stopped in our lifetime." That aptly describes the attitude of religionists to this emergent property of the brain. Religionists refuse to think and reason for themselves and they seek to prevent others from thinking and reasoning for themselves. Amory is proof conclusive thereof.
@@thomash.schwed3662 All Humans need to repent & Believe in Jesus as their God. Why? Because all Humans have sinned (lied, lusted sexually, stolen, dishonoured parents etc). Avoid the fires of Hell (justice of God) and choose Heaven today. Jesus defeated death by rising from the dead. GOD IS HOLY
all humans need to repent and believe in santa as their god. why? because all humans are naughty, avoid the terrible gift of coal (justice of santa) and choose a good christmas present today. santa defeated logic and reason by being able to deliver presents to every single kid in the world in a single night. SANTA IS HOLY.@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363
These callers all start off like someone striding confidently across a field, intent on reaching a destination. They have an argument all figured out and they want to get to the punchline. Then Matt asks a few questions and it's like they've suddenly seen the sign that says 'Danger, minefield'. They freeze, and every blade of grass terrifies them, every innocent clod has to be thoroughly probed with a stick.
Matt: "Are there gods you don't believe in?"
Caller: "oh, fuck, I'm trapped! I'd better skirt around that one somehow... what to do?? What to DO???!!" 😂😂
Yes. Every caller realizes that they are trapped because they're not all that totally stupid. That's the one they start going blah blah. I'd like Matt to get one, at least one by keeping them on, to admit that he is right and that they are wrong--just one is all that I'm asking and I don't think it will ever happen.
@@1weirddoe571
They are definitely not "totally stupid" (whatever totally means in this context).
They are some combination of:
1. Stupid
2. Ignorant
3. Lying
you described it perfectly!!!!!😂😂
Nicely said.
...Now THAT'S an analogy!
😂
@@1weirddoe571 As one of the few in the world that admits when they are wrong, and is happy to do so, it will never not be weird to me to see people bend over backwards to avoid it, and that the vast majority of people are like this. They feel like they will be open to ridicule if they admit they are wrong, as if admitting you learned something is a bad thing. They don't want to feel lesser than the person who knew whatever thing more than them, as if it is even possible to be all knowing in all facets of life.
Just go correct someone spelling "lose" as "loose." You'd think one person out there would be grateful to learn that, and reply, "wow, I have been making a fool of myself for decades! Thanks for pointing that out." Instead, you will be mocked for helping someone learn.
People are weird.
A religion that proudly proclaims to be *"THE TRUTH"* sure has difficulty answering questions and being honest.
Having at one time been involved with a religion (more accurately, a cult), with headquarters now in the Catskills, which identified itself as "the Truth", I can attest to the accuracy of your comment. Their leadership can't even avoid "cooking the books" when it comes to reporting the number of members (what they call "publishers") and their activity. How, then, can they be expected to be honest with regard to their teachings, which they change, occasionally within literally less than one week, as was recently the case concerning events at the world's end?
@@thomash.schwed3662 "What's the difference between a cult and a religion? In a cult, there's someone at the top who knows it's all BS. In a religion, that person has died a long time ago."
What god analogy hasn't backfired? 😂
Cthulhu.
Flying spaghetti monster.
May his noodely appendage smother you in sauce.
..."analogy" tho....
God is like a fart, invisible, pulled out of our ass and pollutes everything. 😬
Lmfao
A perfect example of why many theists are called dishonest.
Part of the doctrine teaches them to lie to themselves by short-stopping behaviors. Those religions that didn't are long gone.
I was taught dishonesty by my theist wacko parents when I would have to pretend I believed in the religious bull crap otherwise I wouldn't get nice presents or would be grounded.
It's worse than just being dishonest. They're dishonest and they think they're honest.
@@FighterDoken Nah they know they are dishonest because you can see them starting to squirm like a greased pig as they feel the gate of the trap closing that would expose them and their belief and they are all the same whatever their belief.
Many = all.
Amory is basically saying: “please don’t ask me to think-just let me believe in magic…”
Excellent. I feel the same way as I listen to him.
That was pathetic. The caller can't answer any questions directly because he knows he will be exposed as irrational. SMH your brain on religion folks.
What's pathetic is an evolved apes stuck to a screen commenting.
Indeed! Amory, and religionists in general, remind me of the "fried egg" public service announcements from the Partnership for a Drug-Free America. How true the statement that religion is the opium of the people!
All Humans need to repent & Believe in Jesus as their God. Why? Because all Humans have sinned (lied, lusted sexually, stolen, dishonoured parents, unbelief etc). Avoid the fires of Hell (justice of God) and choose Heaven today. Jesus defeated death by rising from the dead. GOD IS HOLY
@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 you better watch out for Allah, Shiva and Yahweh. 😂😂
There’s a certain irony that a person that uses belief as their only evidence , seem incapable of abstract thinking 🙄
All Humans need to repent & Believe in Jesus as their God. Why? Because all Humans have sinned (lied, lusted sexually, stolen, dishonoured parents, unbelief etc). Avoid the fires of Hell (justice of God) and choose Heaven today. Jesus defeated death by rising from the dead. GOD IS HOLY
@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 Bwaahahahahahaahahaha.......posted to an atheist channel. High Larious.
The problem is that deep down their brains can still recognize they are being illogical, thats why they will tie themselves into knots rather than admit it.
@Studio732JRL Cognitive dissonance
@@davidjaques9354 That and reflexively protecting ego.
The moment Amory was being put in a “if you can’t prove it, why believe it” spot, dude let himself go to the rafters with dodging and ducking. It’s actually just as sad as it is frustrating; he can’t be arsed to let go of his religious beliefs.
'i have no problem admitting i might be wrong' and then will go through massive mental gymnastics to avoid being backed into a corner on their beliefs.
@@carcosa_tyrant9444 INSTANTANEOUSLY! It’s almost impressive!!
@@carcosa_tyrant9444 "I can't admit to any wrongdoing if I don't ever admit to anything!"
you could almost use that same logic for the trans argument right? If you cant prove it, then why believe it right? call me crazy...
@@Simon-nv5zj Nope. An internally demonstrable thing isn’t an external one. There’s a difference between what MY identity is compared to what an EXTERNAL entity is.
I feel like Amory felt like Matt's trying to trick him or something. Matt's not trying to trick people, he's trying to make it super clear and simple.
Amory tricked himself... he was painfully inarticulate & disjointed !
He lays plenty of logic traps, but traps are not always tricks.
I'm just glad this show exists. I used to be a lot like these people. But thanks to the show I've escaped my echo chamber of ignorance and have learned so much over the years.❤
They think we are trying to find a loophole when their whole ass argument has and is a big hole.
Matt just points out where theists trick themselves.😈
Matt was unbelievably patient w/Amory. Sometimes, I listen to these callers and and wonder how they tie their shoes in the morning..
Can you tie your shoes " My other shoes have the same problems as my current shoes "
CAN YOU TIE YOUR SHOES !! " Yes and no "
GOODBYE!!
@@andrewwatts1997
🤣
>"Matt was unbelievably patient ..."
Um, I do not think that word means what you think it means. 😁
Velcro?
If school children throughout the world were made to watch videos like this we would all live in a better world.
All Humans need to repent & Believe in Jesus as their God. Why? Because all Humans have sinned (lied, lusted sexually, stolen, dishonoured parents, unbelief etc). Avoid the fires of Hell (justice of God) and choose Heaven today. Jesus defeated death by rising from the dead. GOD IS HOLY
When he said ‘Yes and No’, I had to laugh out loud!
Do you believe in Ganesh or Ra?, well my answer is blancmange and jelly.
A real LOL to comment about is nice 😁
Man made stuff like Adam & Eve, Zeus, Romulus, Osiris, Yahweh, parting the Red Sea, The God Of The Bible, Messiah, walking on water, resurrection, savior, Allah, prophet, splitting the moon, holy books, prophecies, heaven & hell, angles, Santa Clause, tooth fairy, etc.
God is the epitome of Holiness because He is sinlessly perfect, A sinner (liar, sexually immoral, taking the Lord’s Name in vain, thief etc) cannot be in the presence of God or else he will be utterly consumed therefore repent of your sins and put your faith in Jesus as your Lord and Saviour to go to Heaven.
@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363
Unfortunately you're not saying anything intelligent by thinking properly & honestly. You're only parroting what you've been indoctrinated with - obviously without the benefit of your intellect.
@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363when god killed the entire world, that was extremely holy and sinless, you are totally right
@@AtamMardes God through the Holy Spirit has shown me several things relating to the afterlife with the purpose of convincing people like yourself. Stuff like Heaven and Hell, Angels, and evil Spirits the Lord Jesus (not worthy at all), a miracle happened to me that saved my life (thank you God) & so much more. I am more than happy to give further details.
@@josephmother2659 God has sovereign power to give life and take it away hence every human who walked the face of the planet will die and be swept into eternity. Forever is a long time to spend in the wrong place
Here is why you need Jesus. You’re like a man about to jump off a plane without a parachute and his plan is to flap his arms to save himself and I'd say “don't do that use the parachute “(Jesus is the parachute).; you are already a slave to your sins- yet God came to set the captives free. (The truth shall set you free- Jesus said I am the way the Truth and the Life)
Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Analogies are not rational arguments, so let's kindly overlook that basic problem and substitute the best argument we can develop instead.
The argument, as I understand it, is that the germ theory of disease was at one time not formulated, but once formulated has stood up well. It is a coherent account of mechanism which explains the data and makes successful predictions. Therefore, other potential theories may not yet be formulated, but ONCE FORMULATED IN THIS WAY may likewise stand up well.
So far so good. I don't see any flaw in that argument.
Next, the idea that a god exists is a theory that has not yet been formulated. Therefore, if it can ever be formulated IN A SIMILAR WAY, it may stand up well.
Again this seems reasonable.
So what comes next? We await a theory of god that can be rigorously formulated, that gives a clear account of mechanism, that explains available data, and that makes successful predictions.
Waiting.
Still waiting.
Hmm, has it really been several thousand years? And still no viable theory. Get back to us when you've got a viable theory.
Here's a hint. Follow the data, don't try to beg the question and then work backwards. It generally doesn't go well in that direction.
Analogies can be rational arguments, if you choose a valid analogy. Religion does not qualify that way
@@Gk2003m They're a form of inductive reasoning. Perfectly rational, as you say, as long as the analogy fits.
@@Gk2003m The problem comes when that inductive reasoning meets reality. Another problem arises when the analogy leaves out vital information.
For example, an analogy that could lead to inductive reasoning (specific to general) would be that: the Grand Canyon is a massive structure that can be seen from space; i.e.- massive structures can be seen from space; the Great Wall of China is a massive structure; therefor, the Great Wall of China can be seen from space.
The problem here is that, in reality, the Great Wall of China can NOT be seen from space, despite the fact that it is a massive structure. The reason is because the analogy leaves out vital information, like certain dimensions that affect visibility from a distance. The Grand Canyon is massive, but it is massive in such a way that no one dimension is so small as to make it invisible from a great distance. The Great Wall of China is massive, but one of its dimensions (width) is far too small to make it visible from a great distance, regardless of its length or height.
So while analogies can be useful for supporting rational arguments, most analogies are far too "loose" to be of much use as evidence. For explanatory power of an already proven rational argument they can be invaluable though.
When it comes to religion, all analogies are fundamentally flawed. One of the most common analogies is made between "God" and parents. The problem is that when Christians make this analogy, it leaves out the vital fact that God is omniscient and omnipotent. Therefor, God knows exactly what the outcome of any action will be, while also being capable of carrying out any action. Parents do not have that capability, no matter how capable they are. So the analogy is useless when it comes to Christians supporting their position. On the flipside, it can still be used by atheists to oppose the Christian perspective because we can alter the analogy to make the parent have those aspects, and still show how awful the "God's" chosen actions are.
For example, a parent who beat their child is deplorable, but the parent may earnestly believe that is the best and only option they have access to in order to correct a certain behavior. The Christian God, on the other hand, already knows the outcome of beating its "children", and knows it won't result in correcting said behavior. The God must also know a different way that isn't deplorable, but chose a method which is AND also wouldn't work. So when an atheist proposes to a Christian "would you lock your child in the basement and burn them for eternity because they said a bad word?", that is a valid analogy. When a Christian says "God is only trying to educate and prepare his children for a test like a parent would, and that is why we suffer", that is not. God already knows the vast majority of his "children" would fail said test, regardless of suffering, and any good parent who has that knowledge would therefor use better tactics.
@@Jedi_Vigilante I don’t fundamentally (see what I did there) disagree with you. Again, the analogy must be valid to work. Deploying a flawed analogy is like, uhhh….
You went from the initial thought of the call, through to the purpose of the analogy and how to apply it, to the actual real world result in your comment. It took me maybe 30 seconds to read. You got further than Amory managed to with his 20mins of airtime
When a caller can’t even answer the question, “I’ve just made up 20 gods, on the spot, so how many of them do you believe exist?”… it’s just painful.
None of these theists can answer straightforward questions because of the obvious result.
That is the venom that has been injected into their minds
All Humans need to repent & Believe in Jesus as their God. Why? Because all Humans have sinned (lied, lusted sexually, stolen, dishonoured parents, unbelief etc). Avoid the fires of Hell (justice of God) and choose Heaven today. Jesus defeated death by rising from the dead. GOD IS HOLY
The mental gymnastics that these people have to do to justify an imaginary friend is gold medal levels.
Above 15 minutes of a guy trying to say he believes we do not have the "technology" to detect the god he believes to be real.
1 sentence summary of everything useful he tried to argue. More effective than his entire attempt.
At the beginning of this call I was surprised at how honest and forthright Amory was. As soon as the youtube time bar passed the dividing line between Matt and Arden I no longer considered Amory to be honest and forthright.
Defense mechanisms are part of the indoctrination. This call showed that exemplary
Clusterfuck of a call from Matt really. The caller was trying to say that all gods were just peoples interpretations of the one god. But that didnt work with what Matt was trying to get the caller to say. They were both talking past each other, but since Matt was bot not letting dude speak and putting words in his mouth....not great.
If Amory had answered: "I don't believe in your 20 gods, because you just said you made them up."
Would you have responded: You don't believe in my 20 the same way I don't believe your 1. Nothing but 'because I say so, my preacher and my book say so.'?
Thanks for the show!
Almost every answer these people give (because they don’t have any others) is “because book”
"Yes, I simultaneously do and do not believe in those gods."
Nice logic, tiny.
I think I finally figured out why Matt flips out at these dishonest callers (other than the fact that they're dishonest.) It's because Jimmy switches out Matt's cereals and he goes CUCKOO for Cocoa Puffs!
Maybe that's why my wife threw me out of the house -- I bought Trix instead of Froot Loops. 🤔
In all seriousness, however, I don't blame Matt in the least for being frustrated by many of the callers. I'm only listening in to the discussion and I find myself often losing patience with certain callers because even I can see through the verbal bovine excrement they attempt to release. Amory here is absolutely no exception to that rule.
😂 nice
Sometimes I feel like Matt flies off the handle a little too easily.
This wasn't one of those times.
Good grief
100% agree. He is extremely impatient most of the time, I was shocked by the level of patience he showed to someone who very early on exposed himself as being dishonest about the intentions of his call.
When he said "yes and no" the windows shutdown sound played in my head
BING BONG BONBOOON! 😂
7:11 The thing is, Amory... What Matt said isn't just his position, but rather a long standing principle pertaining to how evidence should be regarded by researchers in any given scientific field. Wouldn't that make your position contrary to science?
That is why you accepted the position, and that is why there may be hope for you beyond the ancient lies. If you can ground yourself with a realistic outlook, you'll realize that right now in this human body is a rare occurence not to be squandered by wasting your time on a tradition of unfalsifyable thought experiments.
If an actual 'god' thing existed, why does it never help any of its followers to think?
Arden's ending summation of the caller was spot on.
Alternate title: Answer the effing question.
Arden Hart great. And awesome to see Matt in action after him recently having to make a decision on MDD (after it lined-up bizarre 'interlocutors' for him).
All these debates and call-ins, over the years, have taught me to massively respect honest debating/chatting methods. I don't care if someone has wildly different views to me - they'll still have my respect if they structure their views in a fair and discussable way. And, like Matt (but not as well), I'll come down a bit hard on people if they keep playing games with me. It's all about honesty and communication etc.
I can't abide people exploiting a format to pretend weak views have parity with strong well-supported views - which is what they achieve if we are meek in the face of nonsense.
Kind of shocking to find she's Matt's girlfriend, does porn, and is a man.
Well said Mike, what's MDD btw?
@@TheTruthKiwi Probably referring to "Modern Day Debates", a debate channel hosted by James Kunz where Christians, Muslims, Atheists, Flat Earthers and Young Earth Creationists debate all kinds of ideas.
@@TheYuvimon Ahhh ok. Cheers dude
Thad MDD was such a waste of time. Matt did the right thing walking out
Some day we will have instruments that will detect Zeus.
Matt was very patient with Amory, the mental gymnastics he was going through to try and justify his beliefs was painful to hear.
People often say, “I’m not hurting anyone so it’s ok to sin (lying, stealing, sexual sins, disrespecting parents etc)” The same God who said to love your neighbour first said to love Him to the best of your ability. If you carry on sinning, then you do not love God but are selfish like the devil so you will be joined to your father in hell or repent of your sins and believe in Jesus as God so Jesus adopts you as His child and you will join Him in Heaven forever.
@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 what a surprise, a bible thumper making wild assertions without evidence. You can take your bible bullshit and shove it where the sun doesn't shine.
Amory could not articulate his position honestly because cognitive dissonance is too painful.
Modern debate is just for entertainment. Agree with Matt’s decision. His opponent made a a you tube video how he dismantled Matt. He was so dishonest.
Matt wasn't even there. I could agree that he roasted the audience but Matt left after opening statements so he definitely didn't dismantle Matt.
i really find it interesting that these people just.. openly espouse bigotry ,, pretend not to be bigoted,, claim to have moral highground and a loving god.. and then talk shit and claim victor when their honest good faith opponent calls them out on their bigotry and refuses to dignify it for obvious moral reasons... its just... astounding and infuriating
Matt calmly asks question.
Theist repeatedly refuses to answer question.
Matt angrily asks question.
Theist finally gives a nonsensical answer.
It's been 20+ years and the nonsensical 'sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't' type callers are exactly the same.
Why do they pretend like they might believe in more than one god to avoid the argument?
The great god, who's name shall be George, recreates the universe every Thursday and favors people who wear hats. Do you believe in George?
Praise George! I wear hats!😂
These callers are so hard to listen to. I get that they're nervous, but good god, why does every caller have to bumble along?
_"Yes and no?"_
So much word salad, so much gish-galloping and pivoting, for all of it to end like that... xD
I think it's important to recognize that this dishonesty isn't conscious. It's cognitive bias, and it's very hard to break through for some people. His mind is doing a lot of subconscious heavy lifting trying to "protect" him. It's why honestly evaluating our own blind spots woth someone else's help is so valuable.
Not trying to brag, simply trying to prove a point: I have many flaws but what you described is something I never had. You claim that making excuses (because that’s essentially the more blunt way of paraphrasing your choice of words) is subconscious, they don’t realize it, and (I’m assuming) therefore somehow not as dishonest as we accuse them of being. But I never had this problem. I can honestly say I’ve always been able to realize when I’m beginning to make excuses and post-hoc rationalizations when exposed to a new piece of information-not that I pick up 100% of the times that has happened, but that there is a high nonzero positive integer of times that I have had this recognition across my life starting maybe around my entrance into puberty.
I don’t think I’m some mutant or superhuman. And although I understand everyone is different, the fact that I’m surely not the single human with this trait proves that it is indeed a conscious recognition for some people-and for those people who continue to believe, it is unadulterated, inexcusable dishonesty to the full degree.
@@ZhangK71 Imagining what you might have written if you WERE trying to brag.
@@gharqad Jesus, you can never win with all people, is the lesson about life, I guess. 🙄
Some people have traits others don’t have. _Sometimes those traits are positive traits._ Were you somehow idealistically inclined to believe otherwise? And the trait I mentioned was germane to the topic and happened to be possessed by myself. Do I have to deliberately lie and replace the word “I” with “this person I know” just so I can please judgmental fellas like you lol?
(Not to mention the fact this is a pretty pathetic thing to feel enough ego and pride to brag about. Are people around you all “bragging” about being able to say thank you to the waiter, or not drunk-driving, or any other non-antisocial behavior that should be the bare minimum for a good member of society? Because that’s really what being intellectually honest is, and not that hard to be, and most importantly not just something I alone have.)
@@ZhangK71 You done? Did it make you feel better to label someone judgmental for a one line throwaway joke? Cool. Well done. Enjoy your weekend.
@@gharqad Your response doesn't read like a joke. Like I have said before to many other people, sarcasm doesn't work as well in text.
i just want to send Arden some love, and tell her that nomatter what people like Andrew wilson or whatever that dipshits name is says, you are loved and you matter.
it would have been justice of the audience of that event had jumped him after the "debate" ended on live tv. but i know we have to be nice to the fascists or whatever.
regardless Arden you are amazing!
I missed that, what happened bro?
@@TheTruthKiwi the debate Matt had with Andrew on modern day debate in person a few days ago. Andrew couldn't refute secularism or defend Christianity so he used his opening to spew transphobia homophobic comments and attack Matt,
the whole video is about an hour long because after Matt left out, for some reason they let Andrew remain on stage and take questions as if he had not just personally engaged in direct bigotry against a member of the debate panel. truly disappointing
@@clown134 Ahhh ok. Just looked up the MDD channel and it's not there. Maybe they took it down or haven't uploaded it yet. Was it streamed live?
*him (Arden is a male), *no matter (separate), *It (capital letter at the start of the sentence), the second sentence is incoherent, *But (Again, capital letter at the start of the sentence), *I (When you say "I" you use a capital letter), *Regardless (AGAIN, CAPITAL letter at the start of the sentence).
Learn English. It was painful to read your comment.
Matt was super chill and didn't even flip out until 11:39. Good job, man!
And STILL!!!!! No EVIDENCE of any ‘God’ 😂🤣
One thing i dont think people grasp is the turning point in our understanding of everything was coming up with the scientific method. Now that we have the method we have the ability to process our observations and identify what we cannot test for.
The caller thinks that if we dont have a microscope strong enough to see into a Quark then we can just speculate about any old thing and say "wait until we have more powerful equipment." Just not how things work buddy.
I actually don't think he thought he was being dishonest. I think the caller has spent a lot of time thinking about how humans can misinterpret a hypotetical god communicating directly to some of them, and creating religions based on small pieces of information, but then building on those few pieces by adding stuff from their own culture, poisoning the well and making those religions mostly made up.
What he didn't understand is that Matt asked many times why would he think he has a better understanding than most theologians in history, what's his methodology to interpret all those religions better, and why would he think that there's an actual god behind those religions, a god incapable of communicating clearly enough, making all religions seem like made up fairy tales of magic daddy making diseases and earthquakes.
I think this caller has a very surface level understanding of logic, he thought he had it all figured out, and then got extremely confused by Matt's questions, questions he should have asked himself a lot of time, and he was scrambling (in quite a rude, interrupting and dodgy way) to find a way to explain his surface level, confused thoughts that he believed were very smart and deep.
Rudeness through fear and confusion.
The logic and critical thinking skills of a krisschun charter school graduate on display.
This guy is just like 99% of these callers, when realising that they have snookered THEMSELVES, and/or that their arguments and claims are completely irrational or irrelevant will panic and slide directly into patently dishonest evasion, stalling, reframing and flat out lying. And when they are called out on it they will often quickly become snakey and hostile, no matter how, "aw gosh and gee willikers sir. Please and thank you if you would." they were at the start.
I think a charitable reading of what he was trying to articulate might be "I believe there is a God, I am also convinced that every God that has been proposed this far is simply a different face of the same God." So that would allow him to answer "Yes and no" to every already proposed God that any religion has ever followed.
Edit: I'm not in any way saying his argument has any validity, just trying to pull an articulable position out of that call.
That's exactly what I thought he was saying too - and I'm sure Matt knew that, but Matt wants these discussions to follow strict mathematical rules, so he blew his top and punched down, as usual.
Soon as the caller got to "It was thought of to be spontaneous" I knew exactly where this was going. Lighting that we now know to be electrons moving was once attributed to the supernatural power of Gods.
I have no issue believing in an elephant headed god. It is the turtle he rides on, carried by rats that has me in doubt!!
18 minutes and we get “yes and no.” Religion ruins people’s minds.
Religion cannot ruin the mind. The mind is singular. Religion ruins, humans brains. The brains are plural. Religion is intended for ruining human brains. When human brains comprehend the mind, the brain becomes enlightened, because ours star the sun is our mind. No star no mind. KNOW Star, KNOW mind. We experience time through our star the sun. Time is the singularity. The fabric of the universe is time. Time is the mind. The mind is the expansion of the universe. Time is the cause of and reason for expansion in the universe.
The caller is saying way too much, and yet way too little.
At the end of the day he was aiming for an argument from ignorance, he just made it innecerarilly wordy.
I was shocked today when I ended up on Wikipedia asking about Anti-atheists and how many pages there are describing how they're discriminated against in various specific countries,I don't get it we just want to be left alone from their bollox
No need to invent a god, there are over 18 million gods that mankind has worshipped throughout history. Just pick one. here's a few:
Inanna, Brahma, Aten, Ganesha, Utu, Vishnu, Shiva, Krishna, Alinga, Apunga, YhShamash, Hanuman, Ra, Lofn, Osiris, Anubis, Seth, Ptah, Hina, Shu, Tlaloc, Chaac, Kinich Ahau, Sedna, Kokopelli, baal, chemosh, Milcom, Marduk, Nabu, dagana Shapshu, Asherah, El, Afa, ShanNhu, Dewi, Asherah, Shangdi, Pangu, Enlil, Nenlil, Echo, Hera, Saga, Hors, Rod, Perun, Gu, Arawotya, Dilga, Almudj, Boann, Kidilli, Hiaka, Kane, Milu, Durga, Halmista, Bathala, Eir, Njord, Whememeowah, Atua I Kafika, Jar'Edo Wens, Wuluwaid, Vach, Sif, Zizilia, Enki, Ninhursa, Umai-hulhlya-wit, Tihtipihin, Lada, Airmid, Kokopelli, Buluc Chabtan, Nagaitcho, Maheo, Kokyangwuti, Awha, Chiminigagua, Ülgen, Begochiddy, Adroa, Ometeotl, Bemba, Athtart, Nemain, Bris.........
Lmaooo when u get to something that is too persuasive so they have to dance around to make their god too perfect to mess up
@Arden Hart Good description. That is what I think, too. They have some mechanism in them. Some fail save that prevents them to acknowledge that their life has been a lie to this point.
Amory, high as hell, alone, and speaking though a waxed paper/comb kazoo, has formed his god theory from lime jello.
Well His GOD has the same problem as all the other GODS.
They have no power in our reality.
This is just Pascal's wager on steroids. "I better believe in all gods just in case one of them prove to be real."
Any chance 1 of those gods would send you to hell for believing in all the other gods?
@@HoangNguyen-rd6qy no idea, ask the caller
It's more like "every nonchristian religion in history missinterpreted every god of theirs (wich are all my one christian god) wrong while i interpreted it the best".😅
Real difficult to get anything productive out of someone who both does and doesn’t believe in Ra. Dude doesn’t know anything.
These people aren’t lying to us, but to themselves.
Apparently, I don't have enough intellectual bankruptcy and dishonesty required to be a theist.
People often say, “I’m not hurting anyone so it’s ok to sin (lying, stealing, sexual sins, disrespecting parents etc)” The same God who said to love your neighbour first said to love Him to the best of your ability. If you carry on sinning, then you do not love God but are selfish like the devil so you will be joined to your father in hell or repent of your sins and believe in Jesus as God so Jesus adopts you as His child and you will join Him in Heaven forever.
@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363
Faulty Premise of circular thinking via appeal to authority and begging the question logical fallacies with appeal to emotion, including appeal to fear logical fallacies that does nothing whatsoever to support the plethora of extraordinary baseless claims and inadmissible hearsay throughout your archaic nonsensical storybook source book.
It's far more probable/ believable that the specific storybook source sourcebook god-character of antiquity claimant is an unwitting victim of religious indoctrination/ childhood brainwashing that taught them 'What to think' rather than 'How to think' as per, e.g., Proverbs 22:6, "Train up a child in the way they should go; and when they are old they will not {easily} depart from it."
Why do you choose to believe in such archaic nonsensical storybook sourcebook god-character nonsense that has never been competently proven by any respective claimants in several thousand years?
@@richardmcquade9832He copied this comment hundreds of times on this channel. He spams atheists and self-like own comments ;) Jesus must be truly proud of him. I hope he earned a spot in heaven, because this is where all intellectual plankton seems to be heading to, according to my observations. We are heading in different direction ;)
@pavel9652
Faulty Premise of circular thinking via argument from authority (Bible) and begging the question logical fallacies. There's thousands of alleged specific storybook sourcebook god-characters throughout history that have contradictory descriptions and contrasting interpretations; and, the Bible is chock-full of extraordinary baseless claims and inadmissible hearsay. Therefore the Default Position is that: humans have a propensity to invent specific god-characters traceable to specific geographic locations and specific time frames; and, the Bible is simply just another example of ancient fictional literature. Not a single specific storybook sourcebook god-character has ever been competently proven by any respective claimants in several thousand years.
The burden of proof requirements falls squarely upon the specific storybook sourcebook god-character claimant and extraordinary claims submitted without competent evidence can readily be dismissed without evidence as reckless speculation and delusional thinking.🤔
It's far more probable/believable that the specific storybook sourcebook god-character of antiquity claimant is an unwitting victim of religious indoctrination/ childhood brainwashing that taught them 'What to think' rather than 'How to think' as per, e.g., Proverbs 22:6, "Train up a child in the way they should go; and when they are old they will not {easily} depart from it."
This reasonable presumption also needs to be squarely addressed.
Why do the christians ALWAYS waste soooo much time explaining what they’re gonna explain, instead of just explaining?
God is the epitome of Holiness because He is sinlessly perfect, A sinner (liar, sexually immoral, taking the Lord’s Name in vain, thief etc) cannot be in the presence of God or else he will be utterly consumed therefore repent of your sins and put your faith in Jesus as your Lord and Saviour to go to Heaven.
Slow hardware and very little practice in critical thinking, me thinks.
@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 your god condones slavery, child murder and gRape. Does that still qualify him as perfect and righteous?
@@pavel9652 This is important
God through the Holy Spirit has shown me several things relating to the afterlife with the purpose of convincing people like yourself. Stuff like Heaven and Hell, Angels, and evil Spirits the Lord Jesus (not worthy at all), a miracle happened to me that saved my life (thank you God) & so much more. I am more than happy to give further details.
@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 keep lying 🤣
it's called "dancing" (around the answer)
and they are really really good at it
People often say, “I’m not hurting anyone so it’s ok to sin (lying, stealing, sexual sins, disrespecting parents etc)” The same God who said to love your neighbour first said to love Him to the best of your ability. If you carry on sinning, then you do not love God but are selfish like the devil so you will be joined to your father in hell or repent of your sins and believe in Jesus as God so Jesus adopts you as His child and you will join Him in Heaven forever.
You could hear the moment their brain shut down and they became dishonest and evasive. Sad
God is the epitome of Holiness because He is sinlessly perfect, A sinner (liar, sexually immoral, taking the Lord’s Name in vain, thief etc) cannot be in the presence of God or else he will be utterly consumed therefore repent of your sins and put your faith in Jesus as your Lord and Saviour to go to Heaven.
Just list 20 known gods. It would be easier for the discussion.
Yeah, sometimes i see matt making it harder on the point he tries too make.
Ok, so, I think Matt couldn't comprehend this dude's "god".
He LITERALLY believes his god IS every other god. Every contradiction between "his true god" and, for example, Thor or Zeus, is the humans misunderstanding his true god and creating, consistently, wrong religions about it.
On his mind, all gods that ever existed are just the result of one god playing "telephone" with humanity, where that true god's real actions and desires got always distorted eventually into multiple different interpretations. Even any possible god he never heard of.
I think it's internally consistent, even if it's batshit crazy.
It's like if you believed every country on the planet is actually controlled by aliens, but the aliens instructions are always misunderstood, so the actions of the global leaders aren't consistent with any possible tangible goal one could link to that alien overlord.
I think a good way to attack his beliefs is "could an insane person have a delusion, believe that was the revelation from a god, and then convince enough people that he had actually had a godly revelation, starting a religion that was NEVER caused by his god? If so, how could he differentiate between the times his god was misinterpreted and the times a god was purely the creation of a sick mind? How can he know what gods are based on the real actions of his god, and what gods are just based on lies or delusions?"
If he says he CAN differentiate between the gods that originated from the "true god" and those who didn't, THEN you ask him to explain HOW, since he had already accepted he has no evidence for his god.
I do like that the caller said “Well I just heard you make them up right now” and Matt just goes “Well yeah ok let’s move to a different set of gods” 😂 Matt’s a lot of things, but he’s not a liar!
People often say, “I’m not hurting anyone so it’s ok to sin (lying, stealing, sexual sins, disrespecting parents etc)” The same God who said to love your neighbour first said to love Him to the best of your ability. If you carry on sinning, then you do not love God but are selfish like the devil so you will be joined to your father in hell or repent of your sins and believe in Jesus as God so Jesus adopts you as His child and you will join Him in Heaven forever.
I appreciated this conversation quite a bit, but I would take the position that a hypothesis could be so well justified a priori that accepting its truth pending experiment is justified. I would not agree, however, the any god hypothesis would meet that standard.
For example, the primary hypothesis for much of western history was that the world was flat. In fact, that belief was consistent with most observations. Prior to running the calculations and setting up the experiments, somebody noticed that shadows fell in a particular way and objects disappeared beyond the horizon in a particular manner and those observations gave rise to an intuition that the world was a globe. That was a good intuition based on good evidence which could reasonably give rise to confidence that it was more probable a well constructed experiment would tend to support that conclusion than not.
Still, the time to believe the world is round and assert so as a fact is after the experiment, not before
...my brain hurts a lot after that😮😮😮
I dont know how ppl dont tell Matt to fuck off on almost every call. He is sooo rude and insulting its like he is Darth Dawkins twin.
You know what the difference is? He can back his shit up.
It’s almost like he talks like a Navy Veteran.
How many accents can poster George do? I'm impressed
We haven't discovered gharkolpins yet but I know everything about them.
Is it Ann Marie? 🤣
Guys; could you please put a bigger pause between the end of the clip and mister Snow, the Executive producer of the show's comedy routine? I ask, cause every time I'm too late to pause the clip before he does so, I end up laughing uncontrollably, so much so that it upsets my stomach and I start burping up whatever food is in there too. This then often repeats itself all through the day, every time my mind brings it up again. (on one occasion they thought it necessary to escort me out of the local supermarket because of it; Very embarrassing! And I dare not imagine this happening while driving!) The guy is just TOO DAMN FUNNY to bring on without a disclaimer! Thanks in advance.
I got 21 gods to flow
I got 21 gods to go
'Cause if you like me lemme know
Let me in da studio
I got 21 gods before I got to go
Did you see me on the video 'oh no'
Did you see me on the video 'oh no'
So if you like me lemme know
Let me in da studio
I got 21 gods before I got to go
Did you see me on the video 'oh no'
Did you see me on the video 'oh no'
So if you like me lemme know
Let me in da studio
I got 21 gods before I gotta go
I got 99 problems but a god ain't one.
"Yes and no?" 😂😂😂😂
The key problem before you even begin this conversation is that faith is antithetical and incompatible with reason. Religious scholars openly accept that, on its face, faith is ridiculous. To ask someone to stop using their reason and to stop trusting their senses is absurd, and thats why faith is needed to believe in god. Faith is by definition the acceptance of an idea without evidence. Luther famously said "Faith must trample underfoot all reason, sense, and understanding".
It makes for fun youtube shows though
The caller sound quality sucked. Stopped less than half way through.
The Power Couple Returns!!! 💞
Analogy of god
I believe that willful ignorance exists
God is the epitome of Holiness because He is sinlessly perfect, A sinner (liar, sexually immoral, taking the Lord’s Name in vain, thief etc) cannot be in the presence of God or else he will be utterly consumed therefore repent of your sins and put your faith in Jesus as your Lord and Saviour to go to Heaven.
Religion does break peoples minds...
the dishonesty is so real. I think the fellow is more dishonest with himself...
Im sorry but Arden is ADORABLE❤❤❤
total transition goals fr
she's so delicious, i find it hard to watch , because i get distracted by her, but this caller is soooo tedious, i'll keep watching!
@@jimmythebold589 *he (he is a male)
the analogy is irrelevant since serendipity is also known as fool's luck. caller reeks of biblical desperation in the reality of an apparently absent god he was brainwashed into worshiping.
Dang...he hitted the cognitive dissonance wall like an F1
Stan Lee God. Rest His Soul....❤❤❤
I have a little sympathy for Amory, because I was once a theist. But I had a good education, including a science and arts [some philosophy, etc] degree. I was horrified by the idea of their not being a good god. So I decided to run the idea of a godless universe in a "sandbox". I came to several conclusions:-
1. Goodness does not depend on a deity, but it part of the human make-up. Many of us are kind and moral because societies run better on trust and kindness [with a little skepticism thrown in to defend ourselves against the "cheaters". many animal societies have some sort of moral system. Give one dog a treat, but withhold it from another. They KNOW it is unfair.
2. You CAN be good without god. In fact, many gods are positively immoral. Flood a planet because some people have foreskins or eat shellfish? WTF is that?
3. Science is about intellectual honesty, it's methods and procedures defend, or at least, reduce, personal bias.
4. if I wanted to be intellectually honest, I had to concede that there was insufficient evidence to believe in any god, so my belief was both irrational, and intellectually dishonest.
Most religious people want their "reasoning" in a 'can". they don't want to think about hard questions, or fear the results if they answer those questions honestly.
It’s the Schroedinger’s cat of being convinced any/all gods exist.
People often say, “I’m not hurting anyone so it’s ok to sin (lying, stealing, sexual sins, disrespecting parents etc)” The same God who said to love your neighbour first said to love Him to the best of your ability. If you carry on sinning, then you do not love God but are selfish like the devil so you will be joined to your father in hell or repent of your sins and believe in Jesus as God so Jesus adopts you as His child and you will join Him in Heaven forever.
@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 no. No to all of that.
@@benmorrow1701 God through the Holy Spirit has shown me several things relating to the afterlife with the purpose of convincing people like yourself. Stuff like Heaven and Hell, Angels, and evil Spirits the Lord Jesus (not worthy at all), a miracle happened to me that saved my life (thank you God) & so much more. I am more than happy to give further details.
@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 since you have that direct connection, run it by him (God) why he doesn’t show all of his creations those things that would convince them. Surely he would know that what convinces one person would not convince them all, no?
My guess is that Amory was trying to say that gods like Ra and Ganesh are misinterpretations of the true god of christianity. He hinted at this notion earlier in the conversation. If that's what he was trying to say, then it would be correct for him to say "yes and no" to the question of whether he believed in them.
Matt has a bajillion times more patience than I would have in dealing with all these god-addled callers, but nevertheless he sometimes doesn't have enough patience to give some of them a fair chance to make their point.
God is the epitome of Holiness because He is sinlessly perfect, A sinner (liar, sexually immoral, taking the Lord’s Name in vain, thief etc) cannot be in the presence of God or else he will be utterly consumed therefore repent of your sins and put your faith in Jesus as your Lord and Saviour to go to Heaven.
@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 There's a special place in hell for people who up-vote their own comments.
@@KarlBunker Chill man
I’m for you not against you. Jesus is not some bad Person to Believe nor is He made up (look at all the attention He gets). He is not a hypocrite either. He practiced what He preached. He is Loving but also Just; So, He will punish sinners like any just judge would. But followers of Jesus are exempt because the precious Blood of Jesus atones for their sins.
@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 Thanks for the bucket of hogwash. I'll be sure to use it the next time I have a hog that needs washing.
@@KarlBunker This is very serious, make 2024 the year you finally accept Jesus, the best decision of your entire life you will regret not having done so sooner
God through the Holy Spirit has shown me several things relating to the afterlife with the purpose of convincing people like yourself. Stuff like Heaven and Hell, Angels, and evil Spirits the Lord Jesus (not worthy at all), a miracle happened to me that saved my life (thank you God) & so much more. I am more than happy to give further details.
If 666 is the number of the beast, does 665.99999 recurring still count?
5 minutes in and the only thing I am hearing is so much hot, stinky wind, blowing so hard that I can't even take another minute of this puff and blow.
People often say, “I’m not hurting anyone so it’s ok to sin (lying, stealing, sexual sins, disrespecting parents etc)” The same God who said to love your neighbour first said to love Him to the best of your ability. If you carry on sinning, then you do not love God but are selfish like the devil so you will be joined to your father in hell or repent of your sins and believe in Jesus as God so Jesus adopts you as His child and you will join Him in Heaven forever.
The caller was correct in one sense. Ganesh and Ra share the characteristic of whatever god he believes in, they were made up by humans.
It's a control system works on some people as was needed back in the day 😂
Callers are frustrating but I'd greatly prefer more patience from Matt who surely has the experience to maintain a more fruitful dialogue.
I agree. The next question from Matt could have been "if Raa has the same problems as your god, why do you believe in your god but not Raa". Hopefully that could have kept the conversation going. But I guess Matt figured this call is not going to go anywhere and decided to cut the conversation. I prefer smooth closures than jarring ones. Of course, this is MHO. May be I feel that way because I worked in the service industry where clients shout and disrespect workers, while we are required to stay polite and respectful, Matt's shouting and name calling makes me uncomfortable.
I agree. Matt has gone a bit off the deep end with the impatience and hostility. I understand his frustration with dishonest people. But it’s gotten to the point where he’s basically looking for any excuse to blow up at someone. It really makes me question what his end game is with this. I don’t think his goal is to help people out of religion anymore. I know this because patience and restraint are more effective ways to reach people, and you’d at least see Matt wanting to work towards this, regardless of how imperfect he may be. But it’s almost the opposite. He’s become more and more short-fused. No matter how correct you might be about something, people tend to shut down when faced with over-the-top hostility. But I understand the theatrical part of it. Sometimes we want a good theistic smackdown. And if that’s the reason he’s going in that direction with his personality, that’s fine - just admit you’re doing it for the entertainment. I know he’d probably say “I don’t give a f*ck what you think” to something like that.
@@iwsajet8506 My thoughts exactly. Well said. I love most of what Matt has done. He is one of the voices that helped me when I was ready to walk away from faith. I'll always be grateful for the work he does. But imagine a society where, whenever someone employs a logical fallacy or wriggles or fudges slightly to protect a worldview you think is false, you explode and call them a "lying piece of shit". What an ugly world that would be. What an angry, ugly world. Amory wasn't rude or insulting, and in fact I think there's every chance that another 60 seconds of patience and reasoning could've brought Amory to a point where it was clear his position was logically self-contradictory. But when Matt blows up and hangs up, he robs himself (and any undecided viewers) of the win. He was equivocating, sure, but he gave every impression of being someone who could be reasoned with, unlike some of the callers. Amory probably realised after this call that being godless leaves people angry, rude, and short-tempered. Matt probably strengthened Amory's faith, whereas more patience might have got Amory to a point where he had to admit (even if he wouldn't admit it out loud) that his faith wasn't based on solid foundations.
"yEs AnD nO"
To Jimmy or whomever uploads these clips, first of all thanks for the additional content but could you link to or at least list the original air date in the description? unless you already do and I just miss it in which case never mind.