Triumph 400 SCRAMBLER versus the Royal Enfield HIMALAYAN 450 which is the most premium bike?
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- Опубліковано 5 жов 2024
- A few topics covered in the video. Motone Customs Black Friday is now on. 22% Discount code "FLACKBRIDAY"
What is going on with BSA? and a comparison between the Triumph 400 Scrambler and the new Himalayan 450. which of these two bikes has the best build quality?
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PATREON. / stuartfillingham
#triumph400 #himalayan450
![Triumph Speed 400 [QuickTest#33]](/img/n.gif)
I had the privilege to see both bikes in person and I may never had believed until I saw that RE has passed triumph in build quality and I really hope that's the case in performance too.
😊😊
It isn’t case in build quality as well
The weight difference will impair the RE against the Triumph. +17kg to the Scrambler and +28 to the Speed 400.
I struggle to see how you can say the RE has better build quality
LOL@@murraymarshall5865
The new water cooled Sherpa engine in the Himalayan 450 offers interesting possibilities for future models. A Scram 450 with 19”/17” wheels is an obvious replacement for the Scram 411. A roadster with 17”/17” wheels using the same engine would also be a possibility.
Shortening the engine stroke from 81.5mm to 54mm would create a 300cc engine that would be 27.5mm shorter and produce about 27bhp. This could be used to update the 350 models and put them on a par with the Honda 300s while being more affordable and making them better able to cope on fast roads.
From there RE could make a 600cc twin with about 54bhp, or offer a restricted version for A2 riders, and update the Interceptor/Super Meteor/Continental GT models.
Previous generations of KTM 125/200 &250/390 shared engines.
Just bought my first bike - a used 2020 Royal Enfield Himalayan, with lots of accessories and aluminium bags + topcase. The overall condition is great, it looks new to me. Also the price (4k€) was appealing, for the package + the very trustworthy person who sold it to me.
Now, with the release of the Himalayan 450 (a week after my purchase), I dont know how to feel about it... I am still very happy with my choice, I guess. Maybe in a couple of years, after riding the 411 long enough, I could move on and get a full evolved 450...
Bike models get updated all the time, which means that the prices asked of the outgoing model will (probably) be lower. Its not rocket science. And I have a 411 Himalayan.
@@longjonwhite Yes, if feels like that... I think the most important aspect doing so, is to find someone who is fair, trustworthy and offering something well maintained. I think the communication, the meeting and agreement in the end - this can't be surpassed so quickly. I am just in love with the bike as well and cannot wait for spring. Thx for the comment, have a good night.
The Himalayan 411 is a beast. It's a really good and solid bike, with what i personally feel a more posh design for a tourer. Sad to see it discontinued, but it's great that you got one.
@@vibhupande Jaha, I got one! Was riding today (dry and sunny day in Berlin) - I have a really good feeling, no regrets :p
Definitely interesting times. I’ve bought two new REs on the basis that they were small capacity bikes that whilst not sporting premium parts or modes were built at a fair price and worked well. Whilst I think it’s good that RE are producing something premium now I hope that they don’t stop selling reasonably priced models.
I’ll look forward to seeing your new channel bike and thank you for another honest observation
Been emailing BSA for months with no reply. Due to your video the other week I decided to take the plunge and Went to the show this week with a view to ordering one, wow what an experience! Guys in the BSA Tee shirts all stood around chatting and blatantly ignored me. Finally got the attention of a south African lady (judging by her accent) She was very arrogant and irritable, obviously thought she was too good to talk to a possible customer. They act like they have the best product in the world but its an unproven slightly awkward revamp in a very competitive market! will be ordering an Interceptor this week end!
They actually act like they dont want to sell any bikes!
I.m trading my 350classic in for bsa tomorrow. 350classic lovely bike but i have 500 trials and 350 matchless. So i thought bsa would give me more variety obviously being a larger bike. Local dealer had it at 5495 new in red and chrome. . I think maybe the quiet stand for bsa was mainly due to there being only one model? Nothing new. Quite a lot of negatively around the bikes but not usually from owners. It was the same with the interceptor. Another prob is price. 6700/7000 is a bit much when looking at competition. But 5495 i am happy with.
@stuartfillingham
The shocks manufacturer for the Triumph is a company called Endurance. They are based in India and make really good suspension. Not Showa level good but almost there.
Here in India himalayan is launched at price range from ₹269000 to ₹284000, so in UK i will retail around £5.5k-6.5k max
Next bike for the channel needs to be Himalayan, maybe you could take us off on some trips down some of the Yorkshire back lanes 👍
I would choose Himalayan for only 2 thing. Google map integration with your phone. Game changer. Even a GS 1300 doesn't provide that. Well done RE
They are both good looking bikes. I want a small capacity bike that still has the power to overtake on the motorway when required. I would not be doing any serious off-road. With a great service interval, good power and economy the triumph ticks all of my boxes. The Enfield is gorgeous and if the price is right I will seriously consider it. It is nice to have some choices in the lower capacity bikes sector. As you mentioned both look like good bikes so I would probably be chuffed with either.
I've been looking at buying a smaller capacity bike. Took a serious look at the 350 Hunter...viewed a really good second hand one a few months ago.....but then the Triumph arrived on the scene. l haven't viewed one yet, but it looks as if it will float my boat. Stu's views are interesting regarding some of the finishing.....it's a bit of a dilemma now..!
@@brianperry I have also thought about the hunter but I want to be able to do motorway miles comfortably. That is the only thing that puts me off the hunter. As he mentions in the video the triumph is not a bad bike. But it sounds like there are obvious areas of cost cutting. As long as they don't effect the longevity or performance of the bike then I can forgive that sort of thing. Especially for a competitive price. But it is a dilemma. Still it is nice to have this much choice at the lower end of the bike market.
I’d like to swap to one of these but I think I’ll wait for the bugs to be ironed out first. I bought a first edition Triumph Street twin and had loads of problems which I assumed have now been fixed now on the later models. Triumph bikes are great until problems arise then it’s an uphill battle. I wouldn’t know about Royal Enfield.
Have you considered a "scooter"?
@@brianperrytriumph 400 has vibration issue when it reaches 90 kmph 😢
The more often I see the new Himalayan the less ugly it gets........ Thank you for sharing your thoughts about the built quality details of both bikes.
Its best angle is from on top. The black one looks smashing
Excellent review, has Royal Enfield come out with a King killer? The king of course would be the venerable KLR 650, virtually unchanged for the past 37 years.
It would be great to do a side by side review of the KLR vs the new RE Himalayan.
God Bless
I think the also venerable DR650 would stand tall over either.
My Son and I will be visiting the NEC on Saturday to specially view the bikes featured here. Interesting observations and you are quite correct in saying that the devil is in the detail.
From your footage and description, the Himalayan will be where we head first…….after a bacon sandwich !
An excellent video, as always.
Thank you Stuart. This is the story that I have waited for YOU to tell as I am hoping to add one of these two to my stable to join my Conti 650 and ‘04 Thruxton. Now I know how to proceed. Great job !
Vermont.
Hey Stu, will we get another Christmas ghost story this year? The last one was really good.
Im not sure if i have another in me!
Blimey, it doesn’t seem like a year has passed since I read that spooky story.
Thank you Stu. I am off to the NEC Friday and your insight will be useful. As regards the BSA, I have riden one, and it was an enjoyable experience. I found it on par with my Interceptor in many ways, but top end performance, 70mph +, it struggled. This of course may not be of any importance to potential buyers, but is noticeable to Interceptor owners. Ride safe & free.
nicely put together Stuart - I'm not interested in either bike but still good viewing to see where the respective manufacturers are heading for future reference - there is one thing to be sure of though, the lady in the pink doc martens really liked the Triumph 😂
My W800 has flawless fit and finish. When you get up close to all these bikes you see the little things. Not sure if I like the Himalayan's looks, but interesting to hear that you preferred the build quality over the Triumph. Price point is a tricky thing. What's wild is that my 1972 Honda had a really nice fit and finish compare to some bikes today hahaha. Cheers from NYC.
Aside: Honda's an interesting company that's taken chances, made intriguing bikes that were ahead of their time that sadly didn't capture an audience and you can now get for a lark (if you're patient)... and time has proven several of these models right.
Good Morning Stu , I have to agree i think your spot on with Triumph vs Royal Enfield in the terms of fit & finish , strange about the BSA stand with hardly any one there , i was hoping to go myself to the NEC but none of my mates could get the time off , so take care & as always ride safe
Hoping to see a road version with the 450 motor in it,maybe a cafe racer like the old GT 535 with a polished engine that would look good & a smaller 450 Interceptor.I was looking at the Truimph but i will wait to see what Royal enfield bring out next year with the 450cc engine.
I would like to see a 452 SCRAM!!! 19" tubeless tyres and I'm set...
Since Triumph 400 is made by Bajaj, it's suspension is most probably made by Endurance. Emdurance is a major Indian component manufacturer. They have a technical tie up with WP suspension systems (KTM AG), to manufactuer high end WP USD suspensions and mono shocks.
But neither have the reputation of SHOWA
I would only consider the Triumph if it was in the low 4000 pound price range say about £4295 and no more. RE motorcycle quality far exceeds Triumph in every way. What i would like to see is the RE water cooled engine in the Meteor range, maybe even the Hunter.
I think your Hunter wish is already in development!
I'm anxiously awaiting the arrival of the new Himalayan in the US. I completely agree with what you showed and said that it looks more like Triumph is banking on their brand in selling the 400 over that of the Himalayan or similar more offerings. Here in the US the starting price of the Scrambler 400 X is $5595. I am hoping that the Himalayan 450 comes in close to that price being that the jury is still out on reliability since this is version 1.0 of that platform for RE. Considering what you would seem to be getting over the 400, I dare to say I'd be willing to go around $6k. We shall see. RE has a real chance to showcase where they are headed in terms of quality to price/performance with the Himalayan 450 in my honest opinion from what I have seen and heard thus far.
2023 Himmy MSRP at the local dealer in Ohio is $5450 plus all the taxes and fees. So I doubt the MSRP of the new base model will be under $6500. The Summit model may be near $7000 plus taxes and fees which will be $8000+ before it's out the door.
Thank you Stuart. I was considering one of these two as my next bike. I think the Himalayan may be it.
If it's just down to these two for whatever reason, the RE is the wiser choice.
I've put my name down on the Himalayan. Had a really good chat with one of the design team.
Thank you Stu for a general comparison. It will be good when test rides are available
You made my day . I started driving Royal Enfield back in mid 70s and spent a life time driving it in the hill state Iim western Himalayas . Now watching this bike making making a name for itself in countries I never imagined it ever will …is a pleasant and heady feeling . Hard work 😓 and commitment of the company has started making handsome dividends .
Thanks sincerely! Great impressions!
In my humble opinion, this Yank loves them both, but at 6’5” and 18 stone, I’ll need something in the 650cc+ class!
So you will be going for a royal Enfield 650cc Interceptor then 🤔
@@imwatchingyou6113 Yes, something like that.
In 2006, I rode my 2004 XR650R to South America. My friend , Dave, rode his f650 Dakar!. I had no problems except for the final drive chain. I had no Cush Drive, eventually. I flew back to the U.S., and rode my 2001 R1150 GS (with a Ural sidecar) .back to Santiago de Chile.
😮At my age (69 years), I’m happy to do the limit, but I’m too old now :-(
I loop
I'm off to Motorcyclelive tomorrow and will see all the bikes there. The Himalayan is the main interest though, looks quality. Liking RE more and more, real world value in this crazy world. Great videos Stuart.
Great and fair review of both bikes. Totally agree with your views there. RE have definitely upped their game.
Shame about the BSA stand. Not sure what market they’re hoping to tap into though?
My local dealer, Baxter Cycle in Marne, Iowa sells both Triumph and Royal Enfield - Win Win ! !
BSA have only the one model, just in different colours. Although I am still tempted by it, a lack of local dealers holds me back. True and pertinent comments concerning the new Royal Enfield Himalayan verses the Triumph 400 Scrambler, for me it is the price that we will be asked to pay here in the UK for these models that will decern whether we are getting value for money.
Hay Stu', I've just read Markrigg7032. Makes me think that a colab with Nathan the Postman might be just the thing for you. I know he has a Trumpet scrambler on order and I doubt it will be long before he has 450 RE on the fleet. Not only could you do a detailed comparison but, he could take you on some gentle green lanes to evaluate them off road, head to head.
Great review, tbh and this is my personal opinion, Triumph and especially BSA are just re-ashed imitations and their company's just cashing in on a brand name.
Royal Enfield however, are a well established motorcycle manufacturer, their motorcycles are put together with heart and sole with a massive cult following
The new Himalayan certainly ticks my boxes
Naah ! Triumph 400 is made by Bajaj and it's a really good company TBF
yea...once this Himmy came out I feel for BSA cos theyve stagnated! And yes Triumph is fully utilising Bajajs capabilities with cheap build and I thought the same when I saw the 400 here in India...that this just makes a big deal from the badging...the bike itself is very average Indian commuter quality and in that sense feels too expensive for the kit it has!
also would like to add that the Triumph scrambler just feels like a design exploration of the street bike, whereas the Himmy looks properly badass because it's built to a purpose!
@@romeldiaswell said Sir 👍🤔
Well Stuart, I managed to appear in your video but didn't spot you or I would have said 'hello'. Agree with your comments on the new Himalayan, just have to wait and see how RE decide to price it!
I had trouble focusing on the motorcycles because of all the hotties in the background.
BSA failed miserably in their marketing. They showed off their new model, with loads of hype and then nothing happened for over a year, and then it was a trickle. I've still never seen one on the road. All the hype died. All the people who would have bought one bought something else. They missed the boat.
The triumph are competing with the 350 enfields. The himalayan is in a different sector really. The decision whether to buy a 350 for the price or 400 for the performance is a difficult one, but the himalayan isn't a looker and not the style of bike I'm after, so is irrelevant. I'm also suspicious that they're going to set the price too high...
Calling their new bike a Goldstar was the first mistake.
Brilliant video as always Stuart and I think a Himalayan is due in your garage - soon 😃👍🏻
Another great video and wish I could have been there on a School Day to say Hi!
So pleased I’m not the only person to have observed these details…the new Royal Enfield Himalayan not only looks superior but has surpassed any of the other Motorcycle brands in the extensive terrain rides actually through the Himalayans before going on sale!
If I could own 1 more bike as well as my current Interceptor, it would definitely be this magnificent multi purpose beast 👊
Great to window shop all the new retro bikes. Still can't justify buying a new bike after comparing my old Kawasaki W650 in price, HP, weight, engine quality and simple air cooling. Same HP as W800.
The Scrambler 400 looks cool. Not sure I can say the same about the Himalayan, as its proportions seem somewhat off.
I imagine both bikes will represent pretty good bang for your buck though
I agree, the Himalayan looks like it is just aping the GS. I already have a GS and I´m looking for a small capacity bike so the last thing I want is something that´s trying to look like a GS.
One of them will. A decent percentage of the cost for the other is for the increasingly tired brand which comes with a free set of corporate luggage.
@RobVespa Seems like an extremely biased comment. Triumph sales are continuing to increase, their bikes continue to collect awards, and they're continuing to expand into new segments with these 400s, the new MX bikes and a new 660 sport bike.
With their ambitious future plans, RE and Triumph both strike me as brands that are anything but tired
The more I see the new Himalayan the more I like it! It look like a proper Adventure Bike & you can see the DNA from the Himalayan 411! I also just noticed stu on close up that the exhaust is by Arrow Quality in my opinion! Looking forward to the price announcement from you soon! Good video!
PS I to am surprised that BSA haven’t attracted more of a crowed? Is it because at the moment they only offer the Gold Star?
I think that exhaust is non standard.
I'm the spring i will now make the effort to make it to one of the RE ride events. The green or blue 350 and Himalayan are on the list as well as the intercepter.
I was only there for a couple of hours monday, looking at completely different stuff to you🤣. I went to look for potential trade partners and to look at how people were interacting on the stands and general interest of products. It's been a long time since I went to one of these, but it does feel a lot smaller than the past, I also didn't quite get the logic of selling sofas there -but demographics.... I also noted that on some stands the staff were allergic to conversation, which was kind of odd too. I did a bit of a cursory dive for figures, and didn't find everything but the scales are interesting. The UK's top selling bike over 125cc was the meteor with 1350 units sold in a year. Royal Enfield sells 69000 a month in India and 79,000 globally . Bajaj produce 6.9 million units a year of all vehicle types. Although the UK has shown growth, it's still tiny volumes for these guys. That monster Suzuki outboard motor was something else as well....
Very different bikes and I would imagine they are aimed at different segments of the market despite being of similar capacities. Personally, I haven't seen either close up and I don't for one moment dispute that the RE may have the edge in terms of quality, fit and finish. However, beauty is in the eye of the beholder and I think the Triumphs are much more visually appealing when it comes to the aesthetics. That alone will make a big impact in terms of sales. We all want to own/ride a bike that looks good and for my money the RE looks a bit weird whereas the Triumph is pretty.
I did toy with the idea of the Triumph, but now that I've seen the new Himmy, my Scram's ultimate replacement will be another Enfield.
I agree uncle Stu, if they are both the same price then definitely prefer Himalayan. If the Himi price is above £6k (and I suspect it will) it will need much further thought. You could say that RE parts and service is cheaper than Triumph so ownership will be cheaper in the long run. But then again the 400X is using subpremium parts so parts price might be ok. Lets wait for the RE price and see.
Mmmmmm uncle Stu, have you (you have) upset the triumph fan boys with the truth? For some one who says he not a fan of black bikes and that includes me, I get the impression your Bobber customisation is a work of art as much as love for the bike which makes the criticism of the 400 in this reveal very real. Price will be interesting and pivotal for RE, but here in Australia from my experience, the RE dealers and service are way way in front. Bike price and dealer support go together.👍
Great video. Thank you. Three small capacity bikes of interest to me - 452 Himalayan; Triumph Scrambler 400; CFMoto 450MT. Looking forward to spring 2024 😀
Scrambler 400 looks cooler and for many that will be the deciding factor.
Sorry No
Yes...although I prefer the Speed 400. Very classic...and very Urban. And from what I've been seeing...it's road capable. Perfect as my first bike. It will come to Brazil in January.
Yeah, I prefer the Triumph.
I think this will turn into a very interesting battle between these two bikes, I sense triumph built a bike to fill a gap and try and grab market share in India whereas Enfield built a bike to do a job which from what I’ve seen it’ll do very well. I also think the Uk experience of buying triumph is rather poor at present with poor warranty repair times etc. the Himalayan is built by Enfield so will benefit from better parts supply etc
If as I suspect the scram will eventually inherit the same platform in an urban scrambler format then triumph will have to up there game.
Thanks for a well considered view on both these bikes, and you are correct in looking at the detail , in manufacturing terms it’s what separates the best from the rest.
Keep up the good work
To my eyes BSA shot their bolt way to soon with over hyping the Gold Star and then failing to bring it to market at the time their said (That's what put me off getting one). Over a year late to market and lets face it, it should be called the B33. The original Gold Star was always the competition ready model, not a bog standard road bike! Also it's great to have some honest opinions on the Triumph 400. So many UA-cam channels just bleat on like some over excited child at Christmas.
I suggest using the term sub-par wholly vanilla generic motorcycle leveraging a brand and nostalgia to make money - or the easy to remember acronym of sorts, SWVGMLBNMM.
I think the speed 400 looks very good for the money. They had to cut corners somewhere or they would have been 5.5 and 6k bikes.
And that would have made them less appealing than the competition.
I'm impressed by the Himalayan though.
Others might have covered the same stuff but I, and I am sure your other viewers, value your unique perspective (welcome the OCD part). As a rider of a 12-year-old Classic500, I am in the market for a new bike and your thoughts on the Himalayan vs the Triumph are pretty interesting.
Thanks Stu for your insights on both the bikes manufactured from India . Himalayan is keenly awaited by adventure seeking biking afficianodes in india and its price would be reveled shortly . RE have spared no efforts to make it an international product
Hey, you must watch the U tube podcast interaction by Siddhartha Lal , the boss of Royal Enfield to get an insight about making of Himalayan and also watch the reviews of U Tubers particularly by Big bear Customs , Sugar Sheldekar ,Anubhav Bhatt ......
s.certainly. Himalyan 450 outshines Triuimp 400x in all fronts
I’d say there are bikes for all tastes, up to everyone to pick up the one that suits best. I’ve passed the age when I struggled to assess who was stronger, Hulk or the Thing 😆✌️
What’s hurting people more in the UK inflation or the fact that there are British companies being bought by Indian conglomerates. The notion that if it’s from India (similar to how we perceived Chinese products) it should be bloody cheap should be a myth by now. Have a look at the product when you get to see it and ride it and then make your assumptions. To be frank if you find it expensive find a British company that delivers a cheaper price for a similar product. The world economics are changing and it’s time people woke up and smell their coffee. Cheers !!
Very informative , I’m definitely holding off on that 400x now
Good video& thoughts... realise you've bikes from both brands so your comparison on quality etc is understandable. But I wonder if we're just caught in what the marketeers want in talking about them, when these bikes are apples and oranges to each other.
I haven't seen a single reference on line to a 150kg 40hp scrambler that's been out for a few years now, Scrambler version vs Triumph and a high travel suspension version vs the Himalayan.
I test rode a Fantic Caballero 500 scrambler a few weeks ago, it's build quality is better than 411 RE's and better than what you describe of the Triumph, and some really nice machined parts.
Looks like a good bike, not without its flaws, it won't 'off road' to the extent of the RE or perhaps have the pub/coffee shop 'brand appeal' of the Triumph. However, in its two guises it's more of a natural competitor of use to both bikes.
Against the RE there is also the CFMoto 450MT which is due.
Seems a shame that a good 150kg, 40bhp bikes gets overlooked by brand comparison.
Hopefully buyers will see through brand hype & look for bikes that meet their riding objectives.
Looking forward to seeing all these bikes in the flesh at the show later in the week!
I'll stick with my 22 Himmy. With the bike being discontinued, they made it an instant classic. That's fine with me :-)
Build quality of the 450 seems to be really impressive, but it's too modern for my taste. And it has a couple lines i don't like at all. The Triumph looks a tad bit toy- ish to me.
I wish both companies good success with their new models.
I definitely had my pocketbook READY to purchase the New Triumph!
I hadn’t seen 1 in person yet ( USA ) but I’m exactly like you Stuart… Attention to detail over the top for me also.
Thanks 4 the TRUTH…
Cheers from Montana
Hi Stuart! The Himalayan should be your next Channel bike!!!!! 😏
I am from India.i bought triumph 400x .i paid around 3000 pounds including registration and taxes in india.indian bike company Bajaj is manufacturing this bike.also bajaj is manufacturing ktm bikes in india.bajaj is 49% shareholder of ktm..i will buy Himalayan 450 also .cause it would cost around 3000 pounds in india . triumph 400x and Himalayan 450 were tested in umlingla pass ,ladakh ,india where we have the worlds highest motorable road at height of 19,000 feet above the sea level.both bikes are good.400x is a moderate off-road bike but Himalayan 450 is a hardcore off road bike.himalayan 450 will be launched in India on 24 th November which is tomorrow by the way.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder as they say. I thought the shadow black BSA looked fantastic at the show, and that the BSA generally has more presence than the Interceptor. At that price it's definitely on my list to test ride. I agree the Triumph 400's are built to a price. But I can't help feeling your cash is better spent on the Triumph 400 scrambler than the Himalayan unless you are planning to go on an "adventure" rather than just ride to the pub or a bike meet.
I was at the show on Monday, I have great interest in the 400-500cc scrambler market ,.. I checked out the Fantic Caballero 500 after seeing both the RE and Triumph 400 x. The Fantic was head and shoulders above the rest in all departments. Hopefully I test ride will confirm my findings. 👍
I’ve been watching many reviews of the 400X, but never heard all those details. Thanks for your sharp look at it 👍😉
In my opinion, for what its worth, is that the Triumph is far better looking.
Hi there Stuart. Yes I believe everything you say. You have proven that all your opinions up to now are correct. BUT in the pictures and videos this new Himalayan looks ugly, while the triumph looks beautiful. People usually want their bikes to look good. I have the hunter 350 and want to buy a classic 350 but I would never buy the new Himalayan, I see would buy the Scram if I wanted a dual purpose or I would look somewhere else. But looks are just a personal opinion. I could be wrong.
So glad to hear from someone who shares my lack of enthusiasm for blacked-out motorcycles! Chrome and stainless are so much easier to maintain in good nick than paint, and more expensive to produce as well. Besides, don't we want to be visible to other drivers on the road??
Thankyou stu. Ive never been able to gell with the hinkley triumph company, ive no idea why.
Great review from Stu, so far I've only seen marketing videos disguised as reviews of these bikes. There's way too much 'associate' stuff on YT, it's hard to know what to believe. Those levers on the Triumph are really bad and securing the clutch lever hinge with black painted Philips screw is shoddy. Tells me the baby Triumph won't be durable, while RE have taken a big step up in quality.
That triumph looks smart!
My thoughts are the same as yours Stuart, I've Had a 2010 Bonneville SE 865 and then a Street Triple 675 quality bikes, 400 is definitely built to a budget as you say in September I purchased a new Himalayan 411 after riding one back in 19, I love the 411 not being too far from Hitchcocks also for parts it's easier on the pocket for servicing... OK not the same ride but a more relaxed ride which I can fit my bags on the frames and tent and go. Nice Review Stuart.I definitely will be looking at adding the 452 later. Amazing job from RE
The problem with BSA is that the staff at the show act like they are doing you a favour by just talking to you. Most of the staff were huddled together drinking coffee and ignoring visitors, and the lady i tried to speak to just waved me away and told me to see one of the guys that had been ignoring me. Appalling attitude!
I'd rather have a BSA than one of the RE 350s. The Himalayan 450 v Triumph 400: what you say is the same as Nathan Millward. I hope a Scram 450 materialises. I also dislike black bikes... or is that 'bikes of colour'? Nick J
BSA did everything backwards on the launch, they should have studied how the Japanese launch new product. I was in the automotive trade for years and always admired how the Japanese manufacturers had it all timed perfectly. The car or motorcycle has been fully developed, the Moto-journalists are invited to test drive the vehicle in a beautiful setting and by the time the story hits the newsstands or now the internet, the vehicles are at the showroom. The dealership staff has been trained on the new product and all systems are go. BSA really shot themselves in the foot. Number one, you’re making a copy of an icon. You better nail it. Number two, you show the bike around for two years before it’s even available and apparently according to some of the early reviews it wasn’t fully developed. By the time you have it sorted out mechanically and bring it to market, there’s a limited dealer network and your competitors have moved on ahead. Frankly, although the machine now appears to be a good one, it’s a bit like stale beer. Here in the US it won’t be available until sometime in 2024. Yawn.
The company is run by an executive who, in a former life, ran a large video game firm. This may be a joke. Here's something: From my understanding, the new BSA was created to make money off of a well-known unused IP. If this is the case, history, common sense and logic will fill in the rest.
Hello Stuart, perhaps with time BSA will gain more public interest/confidence? I guess they are still seen as the new kid on the block and need to prove themselves over time. RE have a large well established dealer network which may reassure buyers.
Just seen a vlog on the new Himalayan engine built bt Sherpa, incredible motor,dry sump,water coolers,11-1 compression,6 speed,airbox mounted high up under tank.."induction noise"the frame is unit construction so lighter,I can't wait for you to road test one&get your opinion..Ian
Not surprised the BSA stand was empty. That "Gold Star" looks about as much like the original as my car does. Not in the same class as Triumph and Enfield when it comes to the "Retro look"
namaste uncle stuart 🙏 RE just officially released price for new himalayan and for UK its 5750/-
Well spotted, I thought that was a fair review. Thanks
I noticed the gold wheel RE model had tubed spoke wheels while the other with black wheels were tubeless spokes. I wonder if the latter is an upgrade. I indeed hope it's offered. Too bad if not. I'm more concerned about that than matching levers but I appreciate your keen observations and concur regarding fit and finish of the 2 models.
It would be a big shame if the RE bikes were updated to the 450 sherpa motor. Obviously the classic would be the wrong bike for this engine and I doubt there will be a classic 450, but also replacing the Hunter and / or Meteor with a 450 would, to me, be a shame. The J Series 350 has bags of character from it's unique in the market long stroke engine. After a while the 450's may feel just like riding any other modern bike of similar capacity. My Hunter is a 100% keeper, just love it's slow thumping engine 🙂
They won't....only hunter & scram will get 450....
Classic however will get a 650 twin engine.... different segment from 350 classic....🙂
The greatest challenge for brand BSA has always been the ‘it’s just a badge, init, bought by some new start-up’ reflection. As fine and as good looking as the Gold Star is, beezer haven’t done themselves any favours by not bringing anything new to the party - have they run out of ideas? Have they run out of R&D budget? Does this outfit have legs? Reasonable questions any potential tyre kicker may ask. I’ll not be attending this year’s show so thanks for the roundup, but last year BSA had a decent looking scrambler concept, they could at least have followed through with a prototype…
Argh I'm disappointed I didn't see you at the NEC Monda (I was there with Mark Pulling), it was horribly busy, to the point I left early, I really liked the yellow honda Hornet 750 😅 xx
What a shame!
Hello young man ...what did you think of the new green colour on the bullet with the new very comfortable seat..thanks..👍
Where would we be without.. y'know, opinions and stuff.
Thanks SF. Great job. Good info. God bless.
HAPPY TRAILS
thanks Stuart, I like the utility and hardiness of the Himalayan, you've called it right I believe this will be a seller
OK, Stuart, wasn't the BSA Scrambler on display this year? I remember a prototype being there last year it looked impressive apart from the horrible wrapped exhaust, I've never liked wrapped exhausts, they look to me like they are trying to hide something underneath the wrapping. A black ceramic coating would be far nicer on that BSA Scrambler i.m.h.o.
It was just a one off custom project. not a prototype im afraid.
I think the new Himalayan 450 represents a new plateau for RE. The fit, finish, and technology they've made standard on the Himmy are world class. I expect RE will be treated as a world class brand by the western moto journos going forward.
I would agree that the build quality of the new Himalayan has vastly improved over previous models (I had a Scram for a VERY short period of time 😧) but the Triumph is by far the better looking bike.
I too was a little disappointed by the two Triumph 400s, neither felt like full sized bikes to me and didn't quite look "show ready" either with a rather unfinished look in places - hopefully these were pre-production bikes? People will say they're built to a price - but so are Royal Enfield and the new Himalayan looks decidedly premium by comparison. I think the Himalayan will be about a grand more than the Triumph - but worth every penny. If you're a serious off roader the Himmy will be the one to go for too. It was interesting to hear that the new "Sherpa" engine produces 95% of it's torque at 3000 rpm and it's likely to stand up to more serious terrain than the odd green lane or two. The Royal Enfield stand was heaving on Saturday too and there were enthusiastic staff on hand at all times. Plus fresh coffee, donuts and Danish pastries. I think they're trying really hard to put right the shaky start earlier in the year when the UK division took over their own distribution.
The new Meteor models look stunning and the wire wheels really suit the chosen colours.
The new Bullet 350 was very nice indeed and the touring seat fitted to the show bike was supremely comfortable. It's wider and deeper than the standard seat and doesn't increase seat height like the touring seat on the Classic - very welcome for me at 5' 6". At £150 it represents an excellent value option.
BSA announced a new model just before the show. like others, I was hoping for a "Scrambler" version like they had on the stand last year - but sadly it's just another colour option of the existing range.
I think resale value will go to triumph
As a Scram owner, with a 30" inside leg, I couldn't understand why the Triumph Scrambler has a higher seat than the 900 Scrambler? As a former Triumph owner, I would probably go for the latter, if I was in the market for a new bike. As it is, I will stick with the Scram.
I wonder why are saying this in India many saying it’s one of the best build quality in this price point while India is a huge re market
$3,827.78 new Himalayan price announced in India at today's exchange rate.
Please dont get a BSA Stuart! My experience of them at the show is that they are not deserving of what you are capable of doing for them. I know the Himi is not your sort of thing these days but I think views would suffer with the BSA in your stable. BSA are dead, They just have not it realized yet.