I liked them both. It just depended on the type of song you wanted. Perry's voice of course was better, but if you wanted more music and a little less vocals Rosie's your guy.
@@neuropete1 Hmmm. I agree that Steve is the reason that Journey rocketed to fame, and was better for their music. But, cold words....cold words. One of my favorite Journey songs, Feeling that Way, features them both which is really amazing. Gregg gave the perfect smooth intro, and Steve came in soaring.
You're underestimating Paul Dianno's early talent as a singer. Listen to some of his vocal performances on the first 2 albums and the live Maiden Japan album. He could sing melodic, he could go high and sustain, as well as be vicious and aggressive.
If you listen to shows from Killers tour, Paul's voice couldn't handle some of the songs especially towards end of the tour. I love the first two albums but live it was another story.
Definitely true, not just end of tour but also has to do with age. Your voice can only take so much, and especially, in the past, many singers didn't take care of their voices or their bodies. However, what I said, I recall that Paul has also said, and the music Steve was writing required a higher vocal range. And young Bruce definitely helped Maiden. Now, the problem with Maiden's live shows is that they often play (at least used to play) quite faster than on the record. This is something that even Bruce complained about, and his vocal style became more of shouting than singing and he also began swallow words. The example Bruce brought up is the Live After Death from '85. I may get plenty of hate replies, possibly, but those are Bruce's words and not mine.
Paul's drug habits were his undoing in the end. He was a naturally talented singer but never really cultivated that talent going forwards because of his demons. Also, he had a better lower range than Dickinson but Maiden was going in the opposite direction and wanted a upper register frontman. I personally think Di'Anno's best vocal performances are on the first two Battlezone albums, stuff like Land God Gave to Cain and Whispered Rage have some great singing on them. That early Maiden material also does not sound as great with Bruce singing them, which is just my opinion but Paul brought a very sleazy and unhinged vibe to those songs that was never replicated since.
I just prefer that early period as it was more street based & D'ANO's rougher style, indeed a punky Phil Lynott style vocalist really suited that style/ environment.
Prime examples to prove your point: Brian Johnson (AC/DC) Ronnie James Dio (Black Sabbath) Bruce Dickinson (Iron Maiden) Sammy Hagar (Van Halen) Mark Tornillo (Accept) Mike Patton (Faith No More) Phil Collins (Genesis) Ian Gillan (Deep Purple) John Bush (Anthrax) John Corabi (Motley Crue) Graham Bonnet & Joe Lynn Turner (Rainbow) - Although I prefer Dio's version. William DuVall (Alice In Chains) Matt Barlow (Iced Earth) - My favorite singer of the band. Tim Ripper Owens (Iced Earth) Stu Block (Iced Earth) HM's: Tim Ripper Owens (Judas Priest) Blaze Bayley (Iron Maiden) (his solo albums are killer).
Mr. Truxton Have you listened to Floor? I don’t say that Tarja is a bad singer in any way.But Floor has a stronger opera voice and a wider range. She can do more with her voice and has brought Nightwish to a much higher level. I respect your opinion about Tarja,but I think you should give Floor a chance with both the songs that are written for her and the old ones. She does Dead boys poem and Ghost love score much better than Tarja for example. Peace ✌️
@@Boman-Boys I respectfully disagree. It might be my finnish nationalism that's in the way, but no i'm just not feeling it. I've heard her, but i've completely lost interest to thst band after Tarja left. Especially that Anette was really bad. Floor is better, but i still ain't really feeling it.
Sometimes you attach yourself to a band and they provide you with moments in your life, memories and those bands with those songs are associated with faces and voices. Journey concerts in the 80s, for me, was about the air, the sound, the feel, the music. When Steve left, I left. It was never the same feeling or air about the band. It's almost like your brother being replaced with another guy. Sabbath, for me, is Ozzy. Journey, for me, is Steve Perry. Van Halen, for me, is Dave. Styx, for me, is Dennis. Foreigner is Lou. I loved the entire air about these bands when they provided me with everything I love about them. Other guys in their place are like replacing Ann Wilson of Heart, or Freddie from Queen. Or going to see a singing piano player in a bar when you expected Elton John. When someone new is singing the songs of your favorite bands you might as well go to club and see karaoke.
The interesting thing about Genesis when Gabriel left was credits for the songs. When Gabriel was with the band, it was always all songs by all; or all songs by Genesis. As soon as he left, they started listing individual credits for each song.
They changed that back with the “Shapes” album. They started moving back that way with Abacab, where each contributed one song and the rest were written by all three.
The underrated one mentioned here? Rod Evans. Three albums with Deep Purple and then Captain Beyond. While the three early Deep Purple albums wasn't 100 % on point there is some great stuff there. As units there are some things that are dated and could been done better (which they show later on in their career)... But I for one would love/loved to see Rod Evans guest visit as an encore or something with Deep Purple.
@@henryurbach7973 do you actually know of Rod was invited? Glen Hughes finally admitted in July 2019 that Ritchie Blackmore was NOT invited. Hughes went on and said Gillan didn't want Coverdale or him, Glen Hughes there either. Blackmore's partner confirmed this as she manages his email and snail mail. No invite Was EVER received.
Hearing you talk about Queen and Adam Lambert made me want to write a few words. I saw Queen with Freddie Mercury twice, in 1984 on The Works tour and in 1986 on the final date of the A Kind of Magic tour, which proved to be the last show he would ever do, not that anyone had the least idea at the time. They were great both times, perhaps better in ‘86 following their career rejuvenation thanks to Live Aid. I was of the opinion that Queen died with Freddie, an opinion I held until I saw them with Adam Lambert in Bologna (I live in Italy) a couple of years ago. They were sensational, honestly one of the best shows I’ve ever seen. Back to back hits with a hugely likable and very talented frontman. Lambert knows he’s not Freddie and makes a point of saying so during the show. He’s a fan like us who gets off on singing those fabulous songs. He’s very extrovert, doesn’t remotely hide his homosexuality (he’s more blatant than Freddie ever was, in fact) and does a great job of injecting fresh energy into that (overly?) familiar material. He totally won me over. And in fact he has the effect of making you appreciate May and Taylor much more. In the ‘80s Freddie’s personality was so huge and all-pervasive that at times the other members of the band almost seemed like a support act to the singer. Not any more. If anyone is in two minds about whether to go and see them in concert, I just say DO IT. You’ll be very pleasantly surprised.
This is a huge topic....and I see both sides. Would you accept "Rush" without Geddy? Hell No Would you accept "Metallica" without James? Hell No Would you accept the "Who" without Roger? Hell No Did anyone accept Iron Maiden with Blaze? Hell No Would you accept Heart without Ann? Hell No Would you have accepted Def Leppard without Joe? Hell No But.....I think we are missing the bigger issue. I think it matters more WHEN the singer is replaced. Bruce replacing Paul was much easier. They only had two records out and were just getting started. They instantly wrote new material and had time to build a catalog so they could slowly stop playing the Paul led songs. They still them every once in a while..but I don't like them because while Paul isn't Bruce...Bruce isn't Paul in return. Dio had to sing Ozzy stuff at first until they had enough material....and by the time the band Heaven and Hell was going...no need to touch the Ozzy era stuff. So no conflicts there. Queensryche.....Geoff Tate was out very late in their career and in comes Todd. Just go on any sight for either and it's all out war. Queensryche is a cover band...(with at the time..three original members..vs Geoff who is playing with entirely nonmembers but he is the "legit" Queensryche???? I LOVE what Todd has done with the band. The three albums they have done are spectacular. And Todd can sing anything from the catalog. Is he Geoff? No..but damn can he sing. And that brings up another point. I think my issue isn't that they changed singers...it's going to happen...but it's when the new singer has to sing material that they weren't on originally. I don't like Dio singing Ozzy stuff. I didn't like Coverdale singing Gillan stuff. I didn't like Bruce singing Paul's songs. I did like Tim Owens as his high range was insane...but his lower range didn't work for me...and side note..I hated that they detuned and made the songs muddy and unlistenable. I liked his material on Jugulator and Demolition...but clearly that was in the minority. Tony Martin nevers gets the credit he should have. A MONSTER singer and the ONLY Sabbath sing who sounded great on both the Ozzy AND Dio era stuff..as well as his own material. You can't say that about any other Sabbath singer. As great as Dio was...I never liked his Ozzy era stuff..(ok..except Children of the Grave".... Blaze was horrible. Halford's solo material was way better than the crap he was writing when he returned to Priest. Dickinson's solo stuff.."Accident of Birth", "Chemical Wedding" and "Tyranny of Souls"..were also superior to what Maiden released upon his return. But..as soon as Bruce opens with "Aces High"...all it right in the world. I won't listen to one moment of Queen with Adam Lambert. Sorry..can't do it. It ruins everything for me. You just don't replace Freddie Mercury...sorry you don't..and more importantly...you shouldn't even try. I am a bigger fan of Brian AC/DC than Bon....just thought they were better songs....but don't care for how Brian/Axl sang the Bon stuff. Bands like Foreigner really bug me because here is a singer who didn't contribute one ounce of anything to the songs he sings every night. Lou did that...Lou wrote them...he sang them...and if I want to hear Foreigner I will play the original albums..I won't pay to hear someone else sing them. So..I am a self admitted hypocrite. I go back and forth...and I pick and choose. Sometimes it works..other times it doesn't work for me on any level. In the end....I don't feel a need to support a band if I don't like the new singer or more importantly..how they sing the vintage material. I can just play the recordings.
Aside from The Scorpions, Dokken, Aerosmith, and a couple other groups where the voice is the embodiment of the band, 90% of all bands ever are capable of not only continuing onward, but also making great (albeit sometimes different) music! And even the 10% that are not can still be great to go see!
Imagine the Rolling Stones without Jagger,The Who without Daltrey or U2 without Bono. It just wouldn't work. Some bands CAN and have survived losing their lead singer and some bands certainly haven't_ for example Queen. I wouldn't go to see them today if you paid me.
I think with Queen is diferent, because when freddy died, the band was almost done with thier carreer, but if freddy would have died earlier, i think they would search another singer
Zeppelin without Jimmy Page? Scorpions without Klaus Meine? Guns N' Roses without Axl Rose? ZZ Top without Billy Gibbons? Creedence without John Fogerty (which was a touring act). Cold Chisel without Jimmy Barnes? Heart without Nancy Wilson? Wolfmother without Andrew Stockdale? Bon Jovi without guess who.. Dio without Dio? Rammstein without TL? Alice Cooper band wothout Alice Cooper?
Actually, Steve Augeri, the singer after Steve Perry had a very similar and great voice added to the fact that the album Arrival was fantastic. The only problem was it was released 6 months prior in Japan and could be heard for free before it's US release. Sad.
Great rant! I couldn't agree more. If people can ever get past that one individual band member there is a wealth of great tunes to be heard.. In addition to the bands you mentioned I have found that bands like Van Halen, Queensryche, Skid Row, Britny Fox, Warrant, and Quiet Riot all continued on with new singers and put out excellent material that in some cases gets totally ignored.
SO glad I went to see Skynyrd on this Last tour, in fact Saw them twice on back to back weekends Unexpectedly even .. One of my All time Favorite bands and You wont get too many more chances to see them !!
Unfortunately for me my favourite band lost their singer and bassist so the band basically split up in '92. They did eventually return with two new members and a new album, similar in style, but it just wasn't, couldn't and will never be the same. All the power of the original line up vanished when the singer & bassist who also wrote most of the bands material left. The band in question is Slade. Noddy Holder's voice is so distinctive, so powerful, there just isn't a vocalist out there who could replace him. Couple that with Jim Lea (bass/piano/violin) leaving at the same time, the writing was well and truly on the wall, THE END 😢💖🎩
Eluveitie is a good example. When Anna Murphy left the band in 2016, everyone thought they were done. But Fabienne has turned out to be amazing. A beautiful, haunting voice who can really sing. Her side project, Illumishade, is good too and shows another side of her voice.
Hey Pete, you forgot to mention that Journey's first singer was Greg Rollie. The band with Greg as the sole singer was great but not commercial enough, so the addition of Steve Perry so a great injection for the popularity of the band. I know that Steve's version became huge (same as Phil Collins and Genesis) but for me Greg's departure ripped the band apart musically. Greg and Steve (and Neil) together created an excellent melodic hard rock with fantastic harmonies and dual vocals; Those two voices just gelled so well together. Steve by himself didn't have that bluesy counterpart, and for me, music is what suffered the most. And how could you forget Rainbow: they had four singers and pretty solid materials through all incarnations: Dio, Bonnett, Tuner and White. One singer you didn't mention was the replacement of Dickinson in Maiden. Ripper worked for a while but Blaze didn't at all. Also, VH had two replacements: one that fans embraced with Sammy and one they didn't, with Gary. Similar to Genesis. Phil worked (for me until Steve Hackett left; similar situation and change in music as with Journey). Phil also worked out because he not only sang harmonies and backup, especially on the Lamb tour, he sang along with Peter), but Ray Wilson, whom you didn't mention, didn't. As for Heep (yeah I'm a HUGE Byron fan), John Lawton as great pipes as he had, just didn't work out musically. After Lawton we had a total mismatch, especially live, with John Sloman. Goalby was excellent, and with Bernie it's sort of hit and miss. But, as in your point with Queen, if you've not seen Heep in 70s or 80s, Heep with Bernie Shaw is a great replacement. And he's been with them for almost 30 years, much more than any other singer.
two albums off the top of my head on this rant was the first Montrose after Sammy montrose warner brothers presents and HAWKWIND 1976 Astounding Sounds, Amazing Music after Lemmy
I think a good example of a band to whoms world did end when the singer left was Death when Chuck died. This is understandable, though, considering he pretty much WAS the band, hiring solid new musicians every single album. Another one would be Ghost, similar situation, Tobias writes pretty much everything for Ghost, so without him I think it would be pretty hard to recreate his sound in the studio and persona on the stage
I love Halford and Ripper. I saw them with Ripper in a small club in Philly and he was awesome! Then I saw them with Halford at Summerfest in Milwaukee. Both of them are amazing vocalists. Ripper's albums I also thought were great albums.
I graduated high school in 1997 and got into Judas Priest because a good friend of mine had discovered them. It was right around the time Rob Halford came out on MTV. My friend went to see them play with Ripper, I was disappointed when he told me they did not play Cathedral Spires and so was he.
Some bands wouldn't be able to continue (without losing much of their fans and success) with a new singer. A few that come to mind...Aerosmith,Rolling Stones.
Great examples. As much as I love all the members of Aerosmith and The Stones there is absolutely no way either band would succeed without Tyler and Jagger.
@@63mckenzie A lot of people wouldn't mind to see Queen touring. But Adam Lambert is not the right singer for the band. People didn't mind so much when Paul Rodgers even though a lot of the Queen material did not suit his voice. They should at least have a rock singer. People wouldn't mind if Roger Taylor was singing.
@@grooveyerbouti He's just not up to it because of A. his age diminishing his voice and B. it's damn hard to do lead vocals AND drums. C. they still have several songs where they need multiple vocalists, Roger can't possibly carry every song alone.
I actually prefer the Hogarth era albums of Marillion. They grew musically and have put out consistently incredible albums combining great musicianship and raw emotion.
I need to check out AIC material that doesn't have Layne. Derrick with Sepultura worked for me so it's high time I get back into AIC with different singers.
I disagree about Paul Di'Anno vs Bruce Dickinson. Bruce has never matched Paul's baritone but Paul could scream very high(with falsetto admittedly) when he wanted to.
How about The Doobie Brothers? They replaced Tom Johnson with Michael McDonald and their sound went from rocking guitar riffs to an R&B keyboard sound.
I'm in one thousand percent agreement with your video here. Especially the "Journey" remarks here. I think a different singer just adds a different flavor to the product, overall. In some cases it can either be good or bad.
I agree with many points that you made in this video. Many bands that I have loved for the past thirty five years have had lead singer replacements and these bands continued to have the same success and some even got bigger . Some did lose some of their fan base but still carried on. Sometimes the most important member of a band is not the lead singer, but the guitar player or even the bass guitar player. All the lead singers in Black Sabbath did an amazing job with the albums they did, but in my opinion the most important member has always been and always will be Tony Iommi. His guitar playing is the most important ingredient in Black Sabbath in my opinion. I love all three lead singers Iron Maiden have had, but Steve Harris is the most important member ever. He created Iron Maiden and has written most of the material since day one. Another great example for me is the band Accept. The first time they replaced their original lead singer they failed big time even though the album they did Eat The Heat still has some great songs on it. The second time they replaced Udo Dirkschnieder with Mark Tornillo it was a big success because one Mark Tornillo's voice is similar to Udo's and two the four albums they made with Mark Tornillo are amazing albums. I would say that Wolf Hoffman the lead guitar player and Peter Baltes the bass guitar player are just as important as Udo Dirkschnieder has ever been in Accept. Peter and Wolf have always been the two main songwriters for Accept's music since day one and that is why Accept's music is still amazing and strong to this day. For Iced Earth I have loved every lead singer they have had for every album because the most important member has always been Jon Schaffer and always will be. Iced Earth has been Jon Schaffer's band since the beginning. Matt Barlow will always be considered their classic lead singer but Stu Block has done an amazing job on the last three Iced Earth albums. The only thing I do not agree with you is that the Tim Owens album The Glorious Burden is just as an amazing album as all the Matt Barlow albums are. In my opinion The Gettysburg Trilogy is more amazing than the Something Wicked Trilogy big time.
Sometimes the opposite is true for instance with Jethro Tull Ian Anderson lost his voice quite a few years ago. His fans have been saying he needs to get a singer to sing the songs for him he can stay on stage and play the flute and sing where he can but he needs a new singer. He can still write the songs. Jethro Tull could have a whole new birth with a new singer. I'm sure there's other bands that are like that as well. Imagine if Bruce Dickinson became the singer for Jethro Tull. The possibilities are endless
Two classy examples of singers who re-joined a band and performed live concert versions of songs that were recorded with the interim vocalist - Pete Nicholls of IQ and Bruce Dickinson of Iron Maiden. Both did live versions of songs that were recorded with Paul Menel and Blaze Bayley on vocals. One singer who did NOT do this - Jon Anderson wouldn't perform tunes from the Drama album...
Pete, what did you think of the Bad Company albums with Brian Howe as vocalist/songwriter? I thought "Dangerous Age", "Holy Water" & "Here Comes Trouble" were great albums. I would like to hear your thoughts. Thank Youl!
It certainly wasn’t the Paul era everyone came to love, but man-those albums were great! They created a totally new & accessible sound, for us fans and radio, that, IMO, WORKED! I still jam Dangerous & Holy and they still sound as good and fresh as the day they came out!
Queensryche with Todd LaTorre sound better than the last 10 years with Tate and the most recent album,The Verdict is the best thing they have done since the first Mindcrime
Super video! The bottom line is that a person should always give it a chance. Purple is an interesting case. I thought Rod Evans was really good and Captain Beyond seemed to bear that out, however, Purple had really not taken off just yet. Then the put the Mk II lineup together. They go through their kinda cool concerto phase (and I think Lord and Blackmore are internally figuring out who'll be the driver)...and then In Rock come out...BAM! Gillan is seen as THE stereotypical Purple lead vocalist. Just a few years later, install the discovered Coverdale. I myself am not a big Mk III fan but Coverdale was certainly good and the world can argue about him channeling Robert Plant. I think Sabbath is a good example of acceptance. Like Purple transitioning between Mk II and Mk III, Sabbath's style changed but still great and you can't argue with what they put out...Heaven and Hell, Neon Knights, Children of the Sea...all greats. Dio still combined with them quite effectively. With Journey, I think it's a Steve Perry loyalty thing. How he left/got sick/got fired still seems to be a bit controversial. Then they eventually get a singer from a tribute band--very interesting for sure--and I think a lot of folks just left as fans because they felt like Perry was getting stabbed in the back. As with many things, the truth lies in the middle somewhere.
It all matters on the replacement. I have been to 376 concerts, all top bands. I saw Foghat at a small place in Redondo Beach. There was no stage and I was face to face (1 foot away) to Lonesome Dave doing Slowride. No reason to see Foghat again after that. Why would I! Same with Boston, Kansas, Foreigner, and many others. No hard and fast rule for me though, as I loved Sammy and loved him in Van Halen (seen them 7 times, 5 with Dave and 2 with Sammy) and I was one of the lucky people to have Van Halen play in my house in 1976 and saw Sammy play at Pasadena High School Auditorium back in the day. Love Steve Perry, but with a Pilipino wife, I have come to like Arnel. First time I saw Arnel was when we were in Manila on New Years in 2009. This was shortly after he joined the band and he was playing with his old band. I closed my eyes and I was listening to Steve Perry. I saw Steve with Journey 4 times and nobody come close to him, but Arnel makes a great replacement as he sounds exactly like him and Steve agrees. I saw Sabbath during the infamous Angel Stadium performance with Van Halen and then saw them 2 years later with Dio. I prefer Ozzy, but both were great. Queensryche is not the same without Tate and I saw Tate perform at a small place in Tempe, AZ last year and he blew the house down. I saw Freddy with Queen twice and just cannot go see them again. Lambert does a great job. First time I heard him on the TV show, I turned to my wife and said, holly crap, he sounds like Freddy and he should get together with Queen and then it happened, but agree, it is a tribute band now and the same for Skynyrd (seen them 3 times, but still a tribute band). Styx is great, but you need to see Styx to hear the Tommy and JY songs and you need to see Dennis to do the Babe and other songs. Lawrence does a good job, but just does not hit those high notes like Dennis can (I have seen both bands 11 times). I am 58 and have been to an average of almost 10 concerts a year since I was 16. This lockdown is killing me. 23 years ago I saw Steve Miller second row in the pitt at the Greek in LA. I was hooked. I am lucky enough to have the resources and have attended over 100 concerts in the first 10 rows (41 in the first row). Here is one of my videos on UA-cam (almost 150 posted) when I saw Fogerty last year in concert sitting front row center. Life would be empty without music. ROCK ON!! ua-cam.com/video/QR8kUHuAubw/v-deo.html
Queensryche, Fates Warning, Dream Theater, Cannibal Corpse, Borknagar..some honorable mentions too. In fact Queensryche got better after they fired Geoff Tate's ass. They should have done that waaay sooner.
I think it really depends on the band, their history, their longevity, the uniqueness of the voice of the lead singer, the contributions of the lead singer in other areas of the band, and the "it" factor of charisma. Pete brings up plenty of examples of a successful replacement of a lead singer. I'll add KC to the list. Obviously Lake left after "In the Court...", which set an early precedent. But the emphasis on KC has always been more focused on musicianship than vocals. But there are some bands that just can't make the change. Yes is an example of a band that shouldn't exist w/o its lead singer, Jon Anderson. What makes much of the Yes catalog so special is the uniqueness of Anderson's voice, as well as that kind of mystical kind of vibe he brings. And we're finding that his Napoleonic leadership really drove the production of the band. Their efforts without him are meandering mush IMO. And I say that as a person who holds YES in my top 3. How about Joy Division? They didn't even attempt to replace Ian. Blind Melon? Though I wasn't a fan, they tried unsuccessfully to replace Hoon. His voice was the hook. Perhaps his death came at a time in the arc of the band's ascendency which stopped their momentum, and asking anyone to step in at that time was likely destined to fail. I take the point that a successful replacement of the lead singer can readily happen, although on the whole I tend to favor less the replacement. I prefer the music of old VH to Hagar's version. But it may be because VH became more "poppy" in my opinion. So it isn't just his voice, it was their direction. That said, I can still listen to it. But I can't listen to the Gary Cherone version at all. I actually prefer Brian era to Bon. I prefer Phil's voice to Peter's, but I like the music better in Peter's era. I think there's decent evidence for both sides on this one.
As a Styx fan, Dennis DeYoung needed to be replaced. It's been 20 years, they still tour their tail off, have put out 3 studio albums, and several live CD's/DVD's. And are working on a new studio Lp as we speak. Dennis on the other hand, has put out 1 studio CD and 1 live DVD. All while only performing 45 shows a year since 2002. He's supposed to be putting out another studio CD this year. But so far, we've only seen 1 song completed, which has been almost 6 months ago called *Proof Of Heaven.* So who knows if he'll complete it before the end of the year. I like Lawrence Gowan. He's talented, plays multiple instruments. He's happy to be still doing what he loves. And unlike Dennis, Lawrence doesn't whine about touring so much. Plus, Gowan's great with the fans. On another note, I'm not a big Steve Perry fan. He always sounds like he's crying/whining in his vocals. It just doesn't do that much for me. All the slow love songs bore me...
@Philip Holmes yeah. Honestly I think Alice was ready to strike out on his own. The band was getting to be a headache, regardless of their great music. Mike wrote great songs. Dennis had all the cool ideas. Glen was cool. Neal was a freak show. Alice was the perfect front man to pull it all off.
@Philip Holmes Alice has been too busy with the subpar Hollywood Vampires, subpar solo albums and to be honest, a band which bores me live. Love the Coop, but the old guys have something the kids dont.
It's okay to classic rock fans to stick to the classics from the past; even if we stop buying new releases from the bands we love and adore due to some changes in band members or aging, that doesn't mean we've stopped supporting them.
Pete, Hands down, Motley Crue S/T with Corabi is their most fully realized and best sounding album in their discography. It is REALLY unfortunate that people didn’t see it that way when it was released and for years after. However, that album is now slowly being looked back as a classic.
Plus the first S/T Union (Corabi/Kulick) album is totally superior to Motley's Generation Swine in both songwriting and production. They were fools to fire John from the band just because the Motley '94 record didn't sell as much as Dr. Feelgood.
I think it’s different when the singer passes away, luckily Angus found Brian who sounds similar enough to replace Bon. Brian and Roger still haven’t found someone to stand in for Freddie since Paul Rodgers left.
this is kinda like the question i recently asked in the comments for a q&a episode, except mine dealt with the name of the band...i have no problem giving a band a chance to continue on (billion dollar babies after alice cooper left...dio rejoined sabbath and (finally) changed the name to heaven and hell...brilliant)....but when peter gabriel left genesis...change the frickin' name...take a cue from the first album 'from genesis to revelation' and rename the band revelation...i'm not about to say genesis is one of my favorite bands and then think about the commercial crap they released later on...i'm talking about trespass to lamb lies down years....and if that has to be mentioned every time you talk about a band, it's time they change their name....
I have too agree with you for the most part. I guess an exception to the rule would be Van Halen, David Lee Roth-Sammy Hagar. Van Halen didn't skip a beat with that switch. Maybe the exception that proves the rule would be The Doors. However I would have loved to have seen them when they were around briefly after Jim died. They were not given any chances whatsoever. Even by people that didn't appreciate Jim, but loved the music.
It depends, I mean ANYONE in a band can be replaced, but, it's a lot harder to do if the singer writes the songs for the band ( Or co writes) I mean you can look at Black Sabbath replacing Ozzy with Dio ( And became a much heavier, better band) but, Sabbath were an already established Band, so someone of Dio's Calibur would be attracted to Sabbath, in other words they werenot some bar band that could never attract a talent like Dio, A lot of bands have changed singers for a variety of reasons from just not getting along ( Tate /Queens ryche) or Death Bon Scott of AC/DC) it all depends on the Talent you bring in
Some times it works out , some times not. InXs could not find it again after Hutchence died. Recently, in Australia, Mark McEntee, the long time Di-Vinyls guitarist tried to re- form them after Chrissie Amphlett's death. Generally, there was no interest. With AC/DC, their position is that Malcolm, in their emotions is still driving them, and probably, Bon still. l can relate to that. A friend of mine, a Melbourne guitarist who passed away 10 years ago ,is still fresh in minds and hearts of the local music scene. l've only watched a couple of minutes of this "Rant". l'll watch it through in time. But you can't put it in a one size fits all box, because the complexity of emotions, circumstances, timing and practicality will always throw curve balls and bouncersat it
Wasn't there brief talks of George Michael taking over as front frontman after his performance with Queen at the 1992 tribute concert. Thought he did a phenomenal job with Somebody to Love & These are the days of our lifes.
No mention of Yes and the albums which JA didn't front. I've already mentioned that I liked Benoit David's voice on "Fly From Here" although I realise you don't have a very high opinion of that album
most of the time - done kamelot, motley crue, great white, warrant, skid row, bonfire, gotthard, jaded heart, danger danger, TNT - plus some strange versions of L.A. Guns and Ratt
There are so many bands that have had members leave or sadly die. I would love to see Rush live again and would happily accept a drummer to take over Neil Peart (albeit they would unlikely be as good). Like Pete says, it would allow those who never saw Rush to hear the songs live.
Personally I would have loved to see Motley Crue stick with John Corabi ( who was a much better singer than Vince Meal) Because that " Motley Crue" Album is tied for the best albums that band ever released ( Shout At The Devil being the other)
I agree with you in-general - after all, Black Sabbath continued on without Ozzy, and were even revitalized with Ronnie James Dio on *Heaven And Hell,* and of course Deep Purple years earlier had replaced Gillan and Glover quite well with Coverdale/Hughes - *however,* there are *some cases* in which the lead singer is also the main (even the sole) songwriter, and the band's identity is so wrapped-up in him that the band itself simply cannot continue. The primary examples of this are Nirvana, Soundgarden, Sublime, and - of course - The Doors. Yeah, The Doors attempted to continue-on without Jim Morrison, and they fell flat on their face. Same thing with Sublime.
I definitely see hear that. I never really got into anything after Trick of the tale not that wind and wuthering isn't good stuff it's just the further away from the time Gabriel left the more the general sound seemed to change and Hackett's exit just I think finished what was already in motion in my opinion.
Wind and Wuthering is an excellent album. Blood on the Rooftops is amazing. Duke is a good album although Phil Collins' love/break up songs are beginning to creep in. I like a couple of things on Invisible Touch too but largely agree.
Yes, I agree - tho' isn't ... and then there were three and even duke quite top-tier? I mean, those were albums as good as The Lamb... it's JUST a'giant shame that those last four / five albums were what THEY were...
I agree with your main point and your examples are unquestionable - though the world DID end for Queen without Freddie Mercury, whatever the Idol kid does. Why always this talk about lead singers anyway? Take Led Zeppelin without the Hammer of the Gods - John Bonham, or look what The Who was reduced to without Keith Moon. Genesis? well I lost interest once the mystique disappeared with Steve Hackett leaving.
HelgeKS - To give tremendous credit to Zep.. they were such a tight band they never considered replacing Bonzo. Besides the fact Zeppelin set the bar so high no one could touch them🔥
Considering their next 2 albums after Moon the Who would have been wiser to break up. Ps I agree regarding Hackett (though don't tell my wife, she's a Phil fan).
One word - Genesis. Of course, people disagree though... I mean they are the perfect example. Genesis were great after Peter. Yes, they became more commercial - but they never faded away. Deep Purple is the another great example. MK 3 are great. But there are those people with the 'no Gillan-bad" mindset. Mark 4 was good also, I mean Come Taste The Band is a great album. People claim "Tommy Bolin cant play" but that is only because they watch "Last Concert In Japan."
Seeing your shirt,I will ask this:Would the world end if David Coverdale was replaced in Whitesnake? I doubt it would ever happen,and I hope it doesn't.
What about when Dio left Rainbow. I always thought Graham Bonnet did well. Then he leaves, and we get Turner... then Doogie... And Turner in Purple... revolving door for many of these bands))
Alright, I agree with your overall point. Of course a band doesn’t die when the lead singer leaves. You brought up many great points for that. But I disagree with the whole “Maiden got better because of Bruce Dickinson” thing. I’m not one of the people who can’t listen to any Maiden after Di’Anno left, but I am one of the people who strongly prefers Di’Anno to Dickinson. Di’Anno era Maiden had a certain charm to it with how raw and underproduced it was. The songs were all riff-centric and the band followed the lead of the guitars. Also the bass tone is absolutely perfect on the debut and Killers. But in the Dickinson era, things immediately shifted to be 100% focused on the vocals. The guitars became more of a rhythm instrument to compliment the vocals rather than the other way around. Also the production value shot up, making the songs sound too 80s for my taste. The vocals were raised in the mix, the bass tone wasn’t as punchy, guitars had more treble. The Di’Anno era songs have a raw, punk rock vibe to them that I can really get into while the Dickinson era songs kind of cross the line from NWoBHM to just 80s Metal (there is a difference in my book). Judas Priest did the same thing around the same time, but at least with them, it was a transition of sound. With Maiden, it was immediate and it’s jarring to me.
Rainbow's four different vocalists gave the band different sounds: Dio-he had a hard rock,& heavy metal sound. Bonnett-he gave the sound a more laid back progressive sound. Turner-he made them a light hard pop rock sound. White-i haven't heard him so i can't say anything about him.
So you are saying, it just got weaker hahah its all good. But Dio can never be replaced in anything he is part of. Just turns into a different type of band, as your assessment shows.
Ian Gillan said it perfectly. Deep purple has always been primarily an instrumental band. Vast sections with no singing. It means the singer actually holds a secondary position. Standing at the front, singing and acting as a spokesperson creates an illusion. Genesis survived without Peter Gabriel. YES survives without Jon Anderson. Nightwish survives without Tarja. These groups are all primarily instrumental bands. The music comes first. That's why they survive.
Jon Anderson is my fave living singer(since Freddie passed),but him not being in the band doesn't bother me near as much as Chris Squire no longer being in the band.
Trevor Horn was never given a chance by Yes fans even though Drama was a credible album (arguably better than Tormato and I certainly liked it more than anything from the Trevor Rabin era).
Some of us true Journey fans remember Gregg Rolie.
Some of us Santana fans also remember Gregg Rolie!
I liked them both. It just depended on the type of song you wanted. Perry's voice of course was better, but if you wanted more music and a little less vocals Rosie's your guy.
Saw him in The Storm open for Frampton in May 1992.
@@neuropete1 Hmmm. I agree that Steve is the reason that Journey rocketed to fame, and was better for their music. But, cold words....cold words. One of my favorite Journey songs, Feeling that Way, features them both which is really amazing. Gregg gave the perfect smooth intro, and Steve came in soaring.
The the most famous roll of the dice AC/DC . Brian Johnson taking over for Bon Scott
You're underestimating Paul Dianno's early talent as a singer. Listen to some of his vocal performances on the first 2 albums and the live Maiden Japan album. He could sing melodic, he could go high and sustain, as well as be vicious and aggressive.
If you listen to shows from Killers tour, Paul's voice couldn't handle some of the songs especially towards end of the tour. I love the first two albums but live it was another story.
Definitely true, not just end of tour but also has to do with age. Your voice can only take so much, and especially, in the past, many singers didn't take care of their voices or their bodies. However, what I said, I recall that Paul has also said, and the music Steve was writing required a higher vocal range. And young Bruce definitely helped Maiden. Now, the problem with Maiden's live shows is that they often play (at least used to play) quite faster than on the record. This is something that even Bruce complained about, and his vocal style became more of shouting than singing and he also began swallow words. The example Bruce brought up is the Live After Death from '85. I may get plenty of hate replies, possibly, but those are Bruce's words and not mine.
Paul's drug habits were his undoing in the end. He was a naturally talented singer but never really cultivated that talent going forwards because of his demons. Also, he had a better lower range than Dickinson but Maiden was going in the opposite direction and wanted a upper register frontman. I personally think Di'Anno's best vocal performances are on the first two Battlezone albums, stuff like Land God Gave to Cain and Whispered Rage have some great singing on them. That early Maiden material also does not sound as great with Bruce singing them, which is just my opinion but Paul brought a very sleazy and unhinged vibe to those songs that was never replicated since.
I prefer the DiAnno stuff. Dickinson era was good too
Though
I just prefer that early period as it was more street based & D'ANO's rougher style, indeed a punky Phil Lynott style vocalist really suited that style/ environment.
I finally listened to Journey's new material and I loved it! Arnel can sing!
Prime examples to prove your point:
Brian Johnson (AC/DC)
Ronnie James Dio (Black Sabbath)
Bruce Dickinson (Iron Maiden)
Sammy Hagar (Van Halen)
Mark Tornillo (Accept)
Mike Patton (Faith No More)
Phil Collins (Genesis)
Ian Gillan (Deep Purple)
John Bush (Anthrax)
John Corabi (Motley Crue)
Graham Bonnet & Joe Lynn Turner (Rainbow) - Although I prefer Dio's version.
William DuVall (Alice In Chains)
Matt Barlow (Iced Earth) - My favorite singer of the band.
Tim Ripper Owens (Iced Earth)
Stu Block (Iced Earth)
HM's:
Tim Ripper Owens (Judas Priest)
Blaze Bayley (Iron Maiden) (his solo albums are killer).
Dan Maler Floor Jansen (Nightwish)👍
@@Boman-Boys Nope. Tarja is the only one for me.
Mr. Truxton Have you listened to Floor?
I don’t say that Tarja is a bad singer in any way.But Floor has a stronger opera voice and a wider range.
She can do more with her voice and has brought Nightwish to a much higher level.
I respect your opinion about Tarja,but I think you should give Floor a chance with both the songs that are written for her and the old ones.
She does Dead boys poem and Ghost love score much better than Tarja for example.
Peace ✌️
@@Boman-Boys I respectfully disagree. It might be my finnish nationalism that's in the way, but no i'm just not feeling it. I've heard her, but i've completely lost interest to thst band after Tarja left. Especially that Anette was really bad. Floor is better, but i still ain't really feeling it.
Mr. Truxton At least we agree on that Anette was insanely bad,she should never been in Nightwish in the first place.
Take care 👍
Sometimes you attach yourself to a band and they provide you with moments in your life, memories and those bands with those songs are associated with faces and voices. Journey concerts in the 80s, for me, was about the air, the sound, the feel, the music. When Steve left, I left. It was never the same feeling or air about the band. It's almost like your brother being replaced with another guy. Sabbath, for me, is Ozzy. Journey, for me, is Steve Perry. Van Halen, for me, is Dave. Styx, for me, is Dennis. Foreigner is Lou. I loved the entire air about these bands when they provided me with everything I love about them. Other guys in their place are like replacing Ann Wilson of Heart, or Freddie from Queen. Or going to see a singing piano player in a bar when you expected Elton John. When someone new is singing the songs of your favorite bands you might as well go to club and see karaoke.
The interesting thing about Genesis when Gabriel left was credits for the songs. When Gabriel was with the band, it was always all songs by all; or all songs by Genesis. As soon as he left, they started listing individual credits for each song.
They changed that back with the “Shapes” album. They started moving back that way with Abacab, where each contributed one song and the rest were written by all three.
Bush was a terrific fit for Anthrax. "Sound of White Noise" is a masterpiece.
The only anthrax album worth listening to.
The underrated one mentioned here? Rod Evans. Three albums with Deep Purple and then Captain Beyond. While the three early Deep Purple albums wasn't 100 % on point there is some great stuff there. As units there are some things that are dated and could been done better (which they show later on in their career)... But I for one would love/loved to see Rod Evans guest visit as an encore or something with Deep Purple.
Will never happen.
Rod was invited to the HOF induction but didn't show up, sadly.
@@henryurbach7973 do you actually know of Rod was invited?
Glen Hughes finally admitted in July 2019 that Ritchie Blackmore was NOT invited. Hughes went on and said Gillan didn't want Coverdale or him, Glen Hughes there either.
Blackmore's partner confirmed this as she
manages his email and snail mail. No invite
Was EVER received.
And Rod Evans did great with Captain Beyond.
Hearing you talk about Queen and Adam Lambert made me want to write a few words. I saw Queen with Freddie Mercury twice, in 1984 on The Works tour and in 1986 on the final date of the A Kind of Magic tour, which proved to be the last show he would ever do, not that anyone had the least idea at the time. They were great both times, perhaps better in ‘86 following their career rejuvenation thanks to Live Aid. I was of the opinion that Queen died with Freddie, an opinion I held until I saw them with Adam Lambert in Bologna (I live in Italy) a couple of years ago. They were sensational, honestly one of the best shows I’ve ever seen. Back to back hits with a hugely likable and very talented frontman. Lambert knows he’s not Freddie and makes a point of saying so during the show. He’s a fan like us who gets off on singing those fabulous songs. He’s very extrovert, doesn’t remotely hide his homosexuality (he’s more blatant than Freddie ever was, in fact) and does a great job of injecting fresh energy into that (overly?) familiar material. He totally won me over. And in fact he has the effect of making you appreciate May and Taylor much more. In the ‘80s Freddie’s personality was so huge and all-pervasive that at times the other members of the band almost seemed like a support act to the singer. Not any more. If anyone is in two minds about whether to go and see them in concert, I just say DO IT. You’ll be very pleasantly surprised.
This is a huge topic....and I see both sides.
Would you accept "Rush" without Geddy? Hell No
Would you accept "Metallica" without James? Hell No
Would you accept the "Who" without Roger? Hell No
Did anyone accept Iron Maiden with Blaze? Hell No
Would you accept Heart without Ann? Hell No
Would you have accepted Def Leppard without Joe? Hell No
But.....I think we are missing the bigger issue. I think it matters more WHEN the singer is replaced. Bruce replacing Paul was much easier. They only had two records out and were just getting started. They instantly wrote new material and had time to build a catalog so they could slowly stop playing the Paul led songs. They still them every once in a while..but I don't like them because while Paul isn't Bruce...Bruce isn't Paul in return.
Dio had to sing Ozzy stuff at first until they had enough material....and by the time the band Heaven and Hell was going...no need to touch the Ozzy era stuff. So no conflicts there.
Queensryche.....Geoff Tate was out very late in their career and in comes Todd. Just go on any sight for either and it's all out war. Queensryche is a cover band...(with at the time..three original members..vs Geoff who is playing with entirely nonmembers but he is the "legit" Queensryche???? I LOVE what Todd has done with the band. The three albums they have done are spectacular. And Todd can sing anything from the catalog. Is he Geoff? No..but damn can he sing. And that brings up another point.
I think my issue isn't that they changed singers...it's going to happen...but it's when the new singer has to sing material that they weren't on originally. I don't like Dio singing Ozzy stuff. I didn't like Coverdale singing Gillan stuff. I didn't like Bruce singing Paul's songs. I did like Tim Owens as his high range was insane...but his lower range didn't work for me...and side note..I hated that they detuned and made the songs muddy and unlistenable. I liked his material on Jugulator and Demolition...but clearly that was in the minority.
Tony Martin nevers gets the credit he should have. A MONSTER singer and the ONLY Sabbath sing who sounded great on both the Ozzy AND Dio era stuff..as well as his own material. You can't say that about any other Sabbath singer. As great as Dio was...I never liked his Ozzy era stuff..(ok..except Children of the Grave"....
Blaze was horrible. Halford's solo material was way better than the crap he was writing when he returned to Priest. Dickinson's solo stuff.."Accident of Birth", "Chemical Wedding" and "Tyranny of Souls"..were also superior to what Maiden released upon his return. But..as soon as Bruce opens with "Aces High"...all it right in the world.
I won't listen to one moment of Queen with Adam Lambert. Sorry..can't do it. It ruins everything for me. You just don't replace Freddie Mercury...sorry you don't..and more importantly...you shouldn't even try.
I am a bigger fan of Brian AC/DC than Bon....just thought they were better songs....but don't care for how Brian/Axl sang the Bon stuff.
Bands like Foreigner really bug me because here is a singer who didn't contribute one ounce of anything to the songs he sings every night. Lou did that...Lou wrote them...he sang them...and if I want to hear Foreigner I will play the original albums..I won't pay to hear someone else sing them.
So..I am a self admitted hypocrite. I go back and forth...and I pick and choose. Sometimes it works..other times it doesn't work for me on any level. In the end....I don't feel a need to support a band if I don't like the new singer or more importantly..how they sing the vintage material. I can just play the recordings.
Well said. I’d love to get your take on politics to see if you’re that self aware
Aside from The Scorpions, Dokken, Aerosmith, and a couple other groups where the voice is the embodiment of the band, 90% of all bands ever are capable of not only continuing onward, but also making great (albeit sometimes different) music! And even the 10% that are not can still be great to go see!
Its not only about that familiar voice. Its about what the vocalist brings to the table as a whole.
Imagine the Rolling Stones without Jagger,The Who without Daltrey or U2 without Bono. It just wouldn't work. Some bands CAN and have survived losing their lead singer and some bands certainly haven't_ for example Queen. I wouldn't go to see them today if you paid me.
Exactly, Nirvana couldn't have survived without Cobain.. But, Alice in chains did it without Layne.
The very fact that your name is Peter Green "Fleetwood Mac"and you said what you said makes it all the more valid!!!
I think with Queen is diferent, because when freddy died, the band was almost done with thier carreer, but if freddy would have died earlier, i think they would search another singer
Zeppelin without Jimmy Page? Scorpions without Klaus Meine? Guns N' Roses without Axl Rose? ZZ Top without Billy Gibbons?
Creedence without John Fogerty (which was a touring act). Cold Chisel without Jimmy Barnes? Heart without Nancy Wilson? Wolfmother without Andrew Stockdale?
Bon Jovi without guess who.. Dio without Dio? Rammstein without TL? Alice Cooper band wothout Alice Cooper?
I could dig U2 without Bono.
Actually, Steve Augeri, the singer after Steve Perry had a very similar and great voice added to the fact that the album Arrival was fantastic. The only problem was it was released 6 months prior in Japan and could be heard for free before it's US release. Sad.
Sepultura and Exodus are good examples. Everyone jumped ship when Max Cavalera or Paul Baloff left but Derrick Greene and Steve Souza are great!!!
Queensryche has released it's best material since the De garmo era with Todd la Torre
Absolutely. They are 💯% again.
Great rant! I couldn't agree more. If people can ever get past that one individual band member there is a wealth of great tunes to be heard.. In addition to the bands you mentioned I have found that bands like Van Halen, Queensryche, Skid Row, Britny Fox, Warrant, and Quiet Riot all continued on with new singers and put out excellent material that in some cases gets totally ignored.
Definitely agree with you Pete. I was looking forward to John Bush in Anthrax at thattime. . Wasn't disappointed at all. The bands must go on!!
My favourite bands still have the same singers: Sabaton, Powerwolf, Blackmore's Night and Blind Guardian.
Btw, I love all Nightwish singers.
SO glad I went to see Skynyrd on this Last tour, in fact Saw them twice on back to back weekends Unexpectedly even .. One of my All time Favorite bands and You wont get too many more chances to see them !!
Unfortunately for me my favourite band lost their singer and bassist so the band basically split up in '92. They did eventually return with two new members and a new album, similar in style, but it just wasn't, couldn't and will never be the same.
All the power of the original line up vanished when the singer & bassist who also wrote most of the bands material left.
The band in question is Slade. Noddy Holder's voice is so distinctive, so powerful, there just isn't a vocalist out there who could replace him.
Couple that with Jim Lea (bass/piano/violin) leaving at the same time, the writing was well and truly on the wall, THE END 😢💖🎩
Eluveitie is a good example. When Anna Murphy left the band in 2016, everyone thought they were done. But Fabienne has turned out to be amazing. A beautiful, haunting voice who can really sing. Her side project, Illumishade, is good too and shows another side of her voice.
Hey Pete, you forgot to mention that Journey's first singer was Greg Rollie. The band with Greg as the sole singer was great but not commercial enough, so the addition of Steve Perry so a great injection for the popularity of the band. I know that Steve's version became huge (same as Phil Collins and Genesis) but for me Greg's departure ripped the band apart musically. Greg and Steve (and Neil) together created an excellent melodic hard rock with fantastic harmonies and dual vocals; Those two voices just gelled so well together. Steve by himself didn't have that bluesy counterpart, and for me, music is what suffered the most. And how could you forget Rainbow: they had four singers and pretty solid materials through all incarnations: Dio, Bonnett, Tuner and White. One singer you didn't mention was the replacement of Dickinson in Maiden. Ripper worked for a while but Blaze didn't at all. Also, VH had two replacements: one that fans embraced with Sammy and one they didn't, with Gary. Similar to Genesis. Phil worked (for me until Steve Hackett left; similar situation and change in music as with Journey). Phil also worked out because he not only sang harmonies and backup, especially on the Lamb tour, he sang along with Peter), but Ray Wilson, whom you didn't mention, didn't. As for Heep (yeah I'm a HUGE Byron fan), John Lawton as great pipes as he had, just didn't work out musically. After Lawton we had a total mismatch, especially live, with John Sloman. Goalby was excellent, and with Bernie it's sort of hit and miss. But, as in your point with Queen, if you've not seen Heep in 70s or 80s, Heep with Bernie Shaw is a great replacement. And he's been with them for almost 30 years, much more than any other singer.
Steve Perry was the 3rd singer for journey.
two albums off the top of my head on this rant was the first Montrose after Sammy montrose warner brothers presents and HAWKWIND 1976 Astounding Sounds, Amazing Music after Lemmy
Queen I think is the one band that shoots your argument down dead.
Freddie is one frontman who was truly irreplaceable.
RIP Freddie.
Disagree, I'm a HUGE fan of the Paul Rodgers era
I think a good example of a band to whoms world did end when the singer left was Death when Chuck died. This is understandable, though, considering he pretty much WAS the band, hiring solid new musicians every single album. Another one would be Ghost, similar situation, Tobias writes pretty much everything for Ghost, so without him I think it would be pretty hard to recreate his sound in the studio and persona on the stage
Great rant. Sabbath and Purple are great examples. I’m with you on this.
thanks pete, i like your shows,im around your age cool fun stuff.
Definitely agree with you on Journey ,love all the the singers ,including Arnel ,saw them live at Msg ,great hearing those great songs
I love Halford and Ripper. I saw them with Ripper in a small club in Philly and he was awesome! Then I saw them with Halford at Summerfest in Milwaukee. Both of them are amazing vocalists. Ripper's albums I also thought were great albums.
I graduated high school in 1997 and got into Judas Priest because a good friend of mine had discovered them. It was right around the time Rob Halford came out on MTV. My friend went to see them play with Ripper, I was disappointed when he told me they did not play Cathedral Spires and so was he.
Some bands wouldn't be able to continue (without losing much of their fans and success) with a new singer.
A few that come to mind...Aerosmith,Rolling Stones.
Great examples. As much as I love all the members of Aerosmith and The Stones there is absolutely no way either band would succeed without Tyler and Jagger.
@@ryanantler184 True and while John Corabi was great we have no choice but to add Motley Crue to that list.
Queen. Enough said.
In favor of Adam? I hope not.
@@falconater68 Can't believe how bad he is. He's like a Karaoke singer. I think Brian and Roger have lost touch with reality.
Not sure why they didn't just have Roger on vocals.
@@63mckenzie A lot of people wouldn't mind to see Queen touring. But Adam Lambert is not the right singer for the band. People didn't mind so much when Paul Rodgers even though a lot of the Queen material did not suit his voice. They should at least have a rock singer. People wouldn't mind if Roger Taylor was singing.
@@grooveyerbouti He's just not up to it because of A. his age diminishing his voice and B. it's damn hard to do lead vocals AND drums. C. they still have several songs where they need multiple vocalists, Roger can't possibly carry every song alone.
Some big bands don't even really come into their own till they get all the "right" members, even after they lose other iconic members
It's all about enjoying live arts/music! 👍
I actually prefer the Hogarth era albums of Marillion. They grew musically and have put out consistently incredible albums combining great musicianship and raw emotion.
Completely agree. I love Fish but Marillion are even better with Hogarth.
@Beaver McFluffy's World Steve, is that you again? 😂
off the top of my head (pre-video) it worked out with Deep Purple, Black Sabbath, AC/DC, Genesis, Fleetwood Mac, Alice In Chains, and Pink Floyd
I need to check out AIC material that doesn't have Layne. Derrick with Sepultura worked for me so it's high time I get back into AIC with different singers.
I disagree about Paul Di'Anno vs Bruce Dickinson. Bruce has never matched Paul's baritone but Paul could scream very high(with falsetto admittedly) when he wanted to.
Ok
Agreed.
How about The Doobie Brothers? They replaced Tom Johnson with Michael McDonald and their sound went from rocking guitar riffs to an R&B keyboard sound.
Doobies always had multiple vocalists for several different tracks. I never identified one guy as THE guy.
MrAitraining True. That's why I liked them. Chicago, Journey, EWF, Fleetwood Mac and Eagles all had duo or multiple vocalists.
I'm in one thousand percent agreement with your video here. Especially the "Journey" remarks here. I think a different singer just adds a different flavor to the product, overall. In some cases it can either be good or bad.
I agree with many points that you made in this video. Many bands that I have loved for the past thirty five years have had lead singer replacements and these bands continued to have the same success and some even got bigger . Some did lose some of their fan base but still carried on. Sometimes the most important member of a band is not the lead singer, but the guitar player or even the bass guitar player. All the lead singers in Black Sabbath did an amazing job with the albums they did, but in my opinion the most important member has always been and always will be Tony Iommi. His guitar playing is the most important ingredient in Black Sabbath in my opinion. I love all three lead singers Iron Maiden have had, but Steve Harris is the most important member ever. He created Iron Maiden and has written most of the material since day one. Another great example for me is the band Accept. The first time they replaced their original lead singer they failed big time even though the album they did Eat The Heat still has some great songs on it. The second time they replaced Udo Dirkschnieder with Mark Tornillo it was a big success because one Mark Tornillo's voice is similar to Udo's and two the four albums they made with Mark Tornillo are amazing albums. I would say that Wolf Hoffman the lead guitar player and Peter Baltes the bass guitar player are just as important as Udo Dirkschnieder has ever been in Accept. Peter and Wolf have always been the two main songwriters for Accept's music since day one and that is why Accept's music is still amazing and strong to this day. For Iced Earth I have loved every lead singer they have had for every album because the most important member has always been Jon Schaffer and always will be. Iced Earth has been Jon Schaffer's band since the beginning. Matt Barlow will always be considered their classic lead singer but Stu Block has done an amazing job on the last three Iced Earth albums. The only thing I do not agree with you is that the Tim Owens album The Glorious Burden is just as an amazing album as all the Matt Barlow albums are. In my opinion The Gettysburg Trilogy is more amazing than the Something Wicked Trilogy big time.
I actually agree with you here. New blood in the band can bring new life to old songs.
Sabbath and Purple my favorite bands as well and this might be sacrilege but I preferred them both with the replacement singers (Dio, Coverdale)
Phil Anselmo replacing Terrance lee in panterawas a big deal in the Texas area and look what happened!!!!!!
Journey? lost interest after Gregg Rolie left .... :-)
Sometimes the opposite is true for instance with Jethro Tull Ian Anderson lost his voice quite a few years ago. His fans have been saying he needs to get a singer to sing the songs for him he can stay on stage and play the flute and sing where he can but he needs a new singer. He can still write the songs. Jethro Tull could have a whole new birth with a new singer. I'm sure there's other bands that are like that as well. Imagine if Bruce Dickinson became the singer for Jethro Tull. The possibilities are endless
Should have mentioned Helloween and Gamma Ray. Great examples.
I saw Iron Maiden with DiAnno opening for Kiss way back. Maiden totally floored Kiss. DiAnno was a good live singer actually.
if a band continues to record good music, anyone can be replaced.
DeeP Purple - Mark III is a great example.
@@FrostedSeagull Absolutely! I actually love Mark 3 way more than Mark 2.
Not true...we are human beings NOT PAPER PLATES
Two classy examples of singers who re-joined a band and performed live concert versions of songs that were recorded with the interim vocalist - Pete Nicholls of IQ and Bruce Dickinson of Iron Maiden. Both did live versions of songs that were recorded with Paul Menel and Blaze Bayley on vocals. One singer who did NOT do this - Jon Anderson wouldn't perform tunes from the Drama album...
Pete, what did you think of the Bad Company albums with Brian Howe as vocalist/songwriter? I thought "Dangerous Age", "Holy Water" & "Here Comes Trouble" were great albums. I would like to hear your thoughts. Thank Youl!
It certainly wasn’t the Paul era everyone came to love, but man-those albums were great! They created a totally new & accessible sound, for us fans and radio, that, IMO, WORKED! I still jam Dangerous & Holy and they still sound as good and fresh as the day they came out!
I totally agree with you Pete once again
Queensryche with Todd LaTorre sound better than the last 10 years with Tate and the most recent album,The Verdict is the best thing they have done since the first Mindcrime
to avoid any debate, just change every year like Michael Schenker seemed to do throughout his career. :)
Really good Topic Pete....I'm with you 100%
I like every version of Nightwish.
Super video! The bottom line is that a person should always give it a chance.
Purple is an interesting case. I thought Rod Evans was really good and Captain Beyond seemed to bear that out, however, Purple had really not taken off just yet. Then the put the Mk II lineup together. They go through their kinda cool concerto phase (and I think Lord and Blackmore are internally figuring out who'll be the driver)...and then In Rock come out...BAM! Gillan is seen as THE stereotypical Purple lead vocalist. Just a few years later, install the discovered Coverdale. I myself am not a big Mk III fan but Coverdale was certainly good and the world can argue about him channeling Robert Plant.
I think Sabbath is a good example of acceptance. Like Purple transitioning between Mk II and Mk III, Sabbath's style changed but still great and you can't argue with what they put out...Heaven and Hell, Neon Knights, Children of the Sea...all greats. Dio still combined with them quite effectively.
With Journey, I think it's a Steve Perry loyalty thing. How he left/got sick/got fired still seems to be a bit controversial. Then they eventually get a singer from a tribute band--very interesting for sure--and I think a lot of folks just left as fans because they felt like Perry was getting stabbed in the back. As with many things, the truth lies in the middle somewhere.
Honestly I think "fans" won't accept Arnel because of his ethnicity. Which is sad.
Depends on who the band is and when in the bands career they left.
It all matters on the replacement. I have been to 376 concerts, all top bands. I saw Foghat at a small place in Redondo Beach. There was no stage and I was face to face (1 foot away) to Lonesome Dave doing Slowride. No reason to see Foghat again after that. Why would I! Same with Boston, Kansas, Foreigner, and many others. No hard and fast rule for me though, as I loved Sammy and loved him in Van Halen (seen them 7 times, 5 with Dave and 2 with Sammy) and I was one of the lucky people to have Van Halen play in my house in 1976 and saw Sammy play at Pasadena High School Auditorium back in the day. Love Steve Perry, but with a Pilipino wife, I have come to like Arnel. First time I saw Arnel was when we were in Manila on New Years in 2009. This was shortly after he joined the band and he was playing with his old band. I closed my eyes and I was listening to Steve Perry. I saw Steve with Journey 4 times and nobody come close to him, but Arnel makes a great replacement as he sounds exactly like him and Steve agrees. I saw Sabbath during the infamous Angel Stadium performance with Van Halen and then saw them 2 years later with Dio. I prefer Ozzy, but both were great. Queensryche is not the same without Tate and I saw Tate perform at a small place in Tempe, AZ last year and he blew the house down. I saw Freddy with Queen twice and just cannot go see them again. Lambert does a great job. First time I heard him on the TV show, I turned to my wife and said, holly crap, he sounds like Freddy and he should get together with Queen and then it happened, but agree, it is a tribute band now and the same for Skynyrd (seen them 3 times, but still a tribute band). Styx is great, but you need to see Styx to hear the Tommy and JY songs and you need to see Dennis to do the Babe and other songs. Lawrence does a good job, but just does not hit those high notes like Dennis can (I have seen both bands 11 times). I am 58 and have been to an average of almost 10 concerts a year since I was 16. This lockdown is killing me. 23 years ago I saw Steve Miller second row in the pitt at the Greek in LA. I was hooked. I am lucky enough to have the resources and have attended over 100 concerts in the first 10 rows (41 in the first row). Here is one of my videos on UA-cam (almost 150 posted) when I saw Fogerty last year in concert sitting front row center. Life would be empty without music. ROCK ON!! ua-cam.com/video/QR8kUHuAubw/v-deo.html
Queensryche, Fates Warning, Dream Theater, Cannibal Corpse, Borknagar..some honorable mentions too. In fact Queensryche got better after they fired Geoff Tate's ass. They should have done that waaay sooner.
I think it really depends on the band, their history, their longevity, the uniqueness of the voice of the lead singer, the contributions of the lead singer in other areas of the band, and the "it" factor of charisma.
Pete brings up plenty of examples of a successful replacement of a lead singer. I'll add KC to the list. Obviously Lake left after "In the Court...", which set an early precedent. But the emphasis on KC has always been more focused on musicianship than vocals.
But there are some bands that just can't make the change.
Yes is an example of a band that shouldn't exist w/o its lead singer, Jon Anderson. What makes much of the Yes catalog so special is the uniqueness of Anderson's voice, as well as that kind of mystical kind of vibe he brings. And we're finding that his Napoleonic leadership really drove the production of the band. Their efforts without him are meandering mush IMO. And I say that as a person who holds YES in my top 3.
How about Joy Division? They didn't even attempt to replace Ian.
Blind Melon? Though I wasn't a fan, they tried unsuccessfully to replace Hoon. His voice was the hook. Perhaps his death came at a time in the arc of the band's ascendency which stopped their momentum, and asking anyone to step in at that time was likely destined to fail.
I take the point that a successful replacement of the lead singer can readily happen, although on the whole I tend to favor less the replacement. I prefer the music of old VH to Hagar's version. But it may be because VH became more "poppy" in my opinion. So it isn't just his voice, it was their direction. That said, I can still listen to it. But I can't listen to the Gary Cherone version at all.
I actually prefer Brian era to Bon. I prefer Phil's voice to Peter's, but I like the music better in Peter's era. I think there's decent evidence for both sides on this one.
As a Styx fan, Dennis DeYoung needed to be replaced. It's been 20 years, they still tour their tail off, have put out 3 studio albums, and several live
CD's/DVD's. And are working on a new studio Lp as we speak.
Dennis on the other hand, has put out 1 studio CD and 1 live DVD. All while only performing 45 shows a year since 2002. He's supposed to be putting out another studio CD this year. But so far, we've only seen 1 song completed, which has been almost 6 months ago called
*Proof Of Heaven.* So who knows if he'll complete it before the end of the year.
I like Lawrence Gowan. He's talented, plays multiple instruments. He's happy to be still doing what he loves. And unlike Dennis, Lawrence doesn't whine about touring so much. Plus, Gowan's great with the fans.
On another note, I'm not a big Steve Perry fan. He always sounds like he's
crying/whining in his vocals. It just doesn't do that much for me. All the slow love songs bore me...
The red rocker Sammy Hagar /Van Halen many #1 album???
You do know that DLR Van halen OUT SOLD Van Hagar, right?
@@timwirasnik5878 Also had 2 more albums, and the only #1 albums.
Hagar albums went #1 Roth didn't
@@drewdixon5556 and VH 1 went Diamond +
Alice Cooper leaves his band and they're done.
@Philip Holmes and even solo, who would replace him?
@Philip Holmes Vince and Shep are business geniuses.
@Philip Holmes yeah. Honestly I think Alice was ready to strike out on his own. The band was getting to be a headache, regardless of their great music. Mike wrote great songs. Dennis had all the cool ideas. Glen was cool. Neal was a freak show. Alice was the perfect front man to pull it all off.
@Philip Holmes Alice has been too busy with the subpar Hollywood Vampires, subpar solo albums and to be honest, a band which bores me live. Love the Coop, but the old guys have something the kids dont.
I come to realize that I prefer bands with multiple singers. Even the best singers tire after a while.
It's okay to classic rock fans to stick to the classics from the past; even if we stop buying new releases from the bands we love and adore due to some changes in band members or aging, that doesn't mean we've stopped supporting them.
Pete,
Hands down, Motley Crue S/T with Corabi is their most fully realized and best sounding album in their discography. It is REALLY unfortunate that people didn’t see it that way when it was released and for years after. However, that album is now slowly being looked back as a classic.
Plus the first S/T Union (Corabi/Kulick) album is totally superior to Motley's Generation Swine in both songwriting and production. They were fools to fire John from the band just because the Motley '94 record didn't sell as much as Dr. Feelgood.
The live albums Priest did with Owens were fantastic.
I think it’s different when the singer passes away, luckily Angus found Brian who sounds similar enough to replace Bon. Brian and Roger still haven’t found someone to stand in for Freddie since Paul Rodgers left.
Good topic. What about singers who walk away from the bands that made them famous like Sting and Natalie Merchant?
this is kinda like the question i recently asked in the comments for a q&a episode, except mine dealt with the name of the band...i have no problem giving a band a chance to continue on (billion dollar babies after alice cooper left...dio rejoined sabbath and (finally) changed the name to heaven and hell...brilliant)....but when peter gabriel left genesis...change the frickin' name...take a cue from the first album 'from genesis to revelation' and rename the band revelation...i'm not about to say genesis is one of my favorite bands and then think about the commercial crap they released later on...i'm talking about trespass to lamb lies down years....and if that has to be mentioned every time you talk about a band, it's time they change their name....
I made a mistake by not checking out new Sepultura years after Max left. When I checked out Roorback oh man Derrick is the man.
Great video as always. One correction, though: Tarja is pronounced TAR-YA. 🙂
I have too agree with you for the most part.
I guess an exception to the rule would be Van Halen, David Lee Roth-Sammy Hagar. Van Halen didn't skip a beat with that switch.
Maybe the exception that proves the rule would be The Doors.
However I would have loved to have seen them when they were around briefly after Jim died. They were not given any chances whatsoever. Even by people that didn't appreciate Jim, but loved the music.
Duke album by Genesis is pure POP music. I hated it but love Trick of the tail and wind and wuthering.
It depends, I mean ANYONE in a band can be replaced, but, it's a lot harder to do if the singer writes the songs for the band ( Or co writes) I mean you can look at Black Sabbath replacing Ozzy with Dio ( And became a much heavier, better band) but, Sabbath were an already established Band, so someone of Dio's Calibur would be attracted to Sabbath, in other words they werenot some bar band that could never attract a talent like Dio, A lot of bands have changed singers for a variety of reasons from just not getting along ( Tate /Queens ryche) or Death Bon Scott of AC/DC) it all depends on the Talent you bring in
Some times it works out , some times not. InXs could not find it again after Hutchence died. Recently, in Australia, Mark McEntee, the long time Di-Vinyls guitarist tried to re- form them after Chrissie Amphlett's death. Generally, there was no interest. With AC/DC, their position is that Malcolm, in their emotions is still driving them, and probably, Bon still. l can relate to that. A friend of mine, a Melbourne guitarist who passed away 10 years ago ,is still fresh in minds and hearts of the local music scene. l've only watched a couple of minutes of this "Rant". l'll watch it through in time. But you can't put it in a one size fits all box, because the complexity of emotions, circumstances, timing and practicality will always throw curve balls and bouncersat it
Wasn't there brief talks of George Michael taking over as front frontman after his performance with Queen at the 1992 tribute concert. Thought he did a phenomenal job with Somebody to Love & These are the days of our lifes.
No mention of Yes and the albums which JA didn't front. I've already mentioned that I liked Benoit David's voice on "Fly From Here" although I realise you don't have a very high opinion of that album
Surprised you didn’t bring up David Gilmour taking over for Syd Barrett in Pink Floyd
Most of the time, Davil Gilmore replacing Syd Barret is controversial.
@@planetbarrett6055 it’s not like they had any choice l. Syd lost his mind and there was nothing they could do
@@danielthenorwegianguy I know, but sometimes he's irreplaceable.
Ripper is a great singer, but, other than that one Winter's Bane album, what was that great that he sang on?
Never gave Journey any chance once Perry left, come to think of it, didn't give 'em much of a chance when he was there! 🤣
Journey suck! If you are a guy and enjoy this band? You lose a ton of credibility.
most of the time - done
kamelot, motley crue, great white, warrant, skid row, bonfire, gotthard, jaded heart, danger danger, TNT - plus some strange versions of L.A. Guns and Ratt
There are so many bands that have had members leave or sadly die. I would love to see Rush live again and would happily accept a drummer to take over Neil Peart (albeit they would unlikely be as good). Like Pete says, it would allow those who never saw Rush to hear the songs live.
Good idea except Geddy can't sing most Rush songs anymore. Love Rush but it's over
@@youtoo2233 Yes it is a shame that time has not been kind to his voice. I suspect the same is happening to Bruce Dickenson.
Ive been a fan of the German band BONFIRE for years and had different lead vocalists and you are right I gave them a chance and are still excellent
Common theme seems to be, "Get over it". Things change. Give the band a chance, if you claim to be a fan.
Personally I would have loved to see Motley Crue stick with John Corabi ( who was a much better singer than Vince Meal) Because that " Motley Crue" Album is tied for the best albums that band ever released ( Shout At The Devil being the other)
I completely agree with you. It's the only album of theirs I still listen to.
I agree with you in-general - after all, Black Sabbath continued on without Ozzy, and were even revitalized with Ronnie James Dio on *Heaven And Hell,* and of course Deep Purple years earlier had replaced Gillan and Glover quite well with Coverdale/Hughes - *however,* there are *some cases* in which the lead singer is also the main (even the sole) songwriter, and the band's identity is so wrapped-up in him that the band itself simply cannot continue. The primary examples of this are Nirvana, Soundgarden, Sublime, and - of course - The Doors. Yeah, The Doors attempted to continue-on without Jim Morrison, and they fell flat on their face. Same thing with Sublime.
You know Krieger wrote most of the hits in the Doors?
Genesis fell off with me when Steve Hackett left the band.
Yep.
I definitely see hear that. I never really got into anything after Trick of the tale not that wind and wuthering isn't good stuff it's just the further away from the time Gabriel left the more the general sound seemed to change and Hackett's exit just I think finished what was already in motion in my opinion.
Wind and Wuthering is an excellent album. Blood on the Rooftops is amazing. Duke is a good album although Phil Collins' love/break up songs are beginning to creep in. I like a couple of things on Invisible Touch too but largely agree.
Yes, I agree - tho' isn't ... and then there were three and even duke quite top-tier? I mean, those were albums as good as The Lamb... it's JUST a'giant shame that those last four / five albums were what THEY were...
What about the bands with NO original members? Molly Hatchet is one, but there are actually a lot of them.
Lead singers also place their imprint on a band, in essence, the identity of the band is personified by the singer.
My fav Kansas is with Morse. Big Dregs fan
I agree with your main point and your examples are unquestionable - though the world DID end for Queen without Freddie Mercury, whatever the Idol kid does. Why always this talk about lead singers anyway? Take Led Zeppelin without the Hammer of the Gods - John Bonham, or look what The Who was reduced to without Keith Moon. Genesis? well I lost interest once the mystique disappeared with Steve Hackett leaving.
HelgeKS - To give tremendous credit to Zep.. they were such a tight band they never considered replacing Bonzo. Besides the fact Zeppelin set the bar so high no one could touch them🔥
in fact they were considering carrying on with Barriemore Barlow for a minute ...
Considering their next 2 albums after Moon the Who would have been wiser to break up. Ps I agree regarding Hackett (though don't tell my wife, she's a Phil fan).
One word - Genesis. Of course, people disagree though... I mean they are the perfect example. Genesis were great after Peter. Yes, they became more commercial - but they never faded away. Deep Purple is the another great example. MK 3 are great. But there are those people with the 'no Gillan-bad" mindset. Mark 4 was good also, I mean Come Taste The Band is a great album. People claim "Tommy Bolin cant play" but that is only because they watch "Last Concert In Japan."
Seeing your shirt,I will ask this:Would the world end if David Coverdale was replaced in Whitesnake?
I doubt it would ever happen,and I hope it doesn't.
Coverdale owns Whitesnake 100%
What about when Dio left Rainbow. I always thought Graham Bonnet did well. Then he leaves, and we get Turner... then Doogie... And Turner in Purple... revolving door for many of these bands))
Alright, I agree with your overall point. Of course a band doesn’t die when the lead singer leaves. You brought up many great points for that. But I disagree with the whole “Maiden got better because of Bruce Dickinson” thing. I’m not one of the people who can’t listen to any Maiden after Di’Anno left, but I am one of the people who strongly prefers Di’Anno to Dickinson. Di’Anno era Maiden had a certain charm to it with how raw and underproduced it was. The songs were all riff-centric and the band followed the lead of the guitars. Also the bass tone is absolutely perfect on the debut and Killers. But in the Dickinson era, things immediately shifted to be 100% focused on the vocals. The guitars became more of a rhythm instrument to compliment the vocals rather than the other way around. Also the production value shot up, making the songs sound too 80s for my taste. The vocals were raised in the mix, the bass tone wasn’t as punchy, guitars had more treble. The Di’Anno era songs have a raw, punk rock vibe to them that I can really get into while the Dickinson era songs kind of cross the line from NWoBHM to just 80s Metal (there is a difference in my book). Judas Priest did the same thing around the same time, but at least with them, it was a transition of sound. With Maiden, it was immediate and it’s jarring to me.
Ronnie was Shooting Star singer
Rainbow's four different vocalists gave the band different
sounds:
Dio-he had a hard rock,& heavy metal sound.
Bonnett-he gave the sound a more laid back progressive sound.
Turner-he made them a light hard pop rock sound.
White-i haven't heard him so i can't say anything about him.
So you are saying, it just got weaker hahah its all good. But Dio can never be replaced in anything he is part of. Just turns into a different type of band, as your assessment shows.
Ian Gillan said it perfectly. Deep purple has always been primarily an instrumental band. Vast sections with no singing. It means the singer actually holds a secondary position. Standing at the front, singing and acting as a spokesperson creates an illusion. Genesis survived without Peter Gabriel. YES survives without Jon Anderson. Nightwish survives without Tarja. These groups are all primarily instrumental bands. The music comes first. That's why they survive.
Jon Anderson is my fave living singer(since Freddie passed),but him not being in the band doesn't bother me near as much as Chris Squire no longer being in the band.
Trevor Horn was never given a chance by Yes fans even though Drama was a credible album (arguably better than Tormato and I certainly liked it more than anything from the Trevor Rabin era).
@@adamsmashups4839 the Fish was the last link with the original line-up).