Thanks mate, after a short hiatus, I'm getting back into it and going to open a can of worms on the next one..... Keep an eye out! This one is going to upset everyone 😂
@@LockyourHubs4WDing G'day mate, well done cant argue with the science. Have you had a chance to check what the forward facing ram head on a 4" down pipe tells you.
So much for pieces of pipe they use for a snorkel. I personally think a pressurised air flow would be better than a reverse snorkel that has air pulling on the entry point. My twin turbo 200 needs all the air it can get. Thanks matey.
So my backwards pointing snorkel ca stay. Good, i like trolling people who get mad when you point it backwards. 1% loss on a landrover isn't going to make you any faster
Lock your Hubs 4WDing ..now being shackled to a defender and using an oiled unifilter on a forward facing ram usually in only heavy dusty trips but looking at a Donaldson style cyclonic for filter life, water removal and ease of dumping out any dust at the end of the day,what would be you’re thoughts on that.?..perhaps a tad less efficient , likley more engine protection,easier maintenance ,and no washing out a foam filter with your drinking water. You’re thoughts? -----exelent use of covid 19 btw these bids have looked at issues that are long overdue ...cheers mark
I got sick of this ongoing argument so I made my own snorkel head which doesn't draw air facing forward or backwards. It pulls in the air from an opening underneath the snorkel head. So the intake opening is actually facing downwards. Don't have to listen to weekend warriors claiming which direction is the best now, because the facing down version beats all of the arguments.
@@After_Tech_Industries Yes that is correct, it is a curved fiberglass deflector that fits neatly into the front of the "Forward Facing snorkel" & draws all the air upward from underneath. It makes the intake a tiny bit smaller (by 5mm all round) but it doesn't degrade highway performance. In actual fact, it seems to have more grunt under load since fitting it. You have to remove 15-20mm of plastic from the bottom of the head opening though to make the new opening big enough & because of this it doesn't stick out or hang down and look weird either. It tucks neatly in the snorkel head opening and is held by 2 stainless steel screws that the normal screen is held on with. Unless you really look hard you don't even notice the difference. These Snorkel heads a cheap as chips so buy one & have a go at making one for yourself. I guess you could use metal but fiberglass is so easy if you use a hunk of closed cell (surfboard type) Styrofoam as a blank to get the perfect shape. Get it a perfect fit so it fits tight inside the snorkel head then remove/sand about 3mm of foam off the area all round where it fits inside the snorkel so it is a tiny bit smaller/loose fit (the fiberglass will fill this gap). Once its set use thinner or petrol to melt the foam out of your new deflector, sand it & paint it black and Bob's your uncle.. Honestly, there is much less dust, leaf & insects debris in my filter now which is why I did it. Protects against teaming rain also which is a bonus. Would be brilliant in snow or where salt is used on roads
Great stuff as usual, and without the stupid heavy metal music that some other well known and prominent channels (who shall remain nameless) seem to think impresses me. Just really good to hear and see scientifically based comparisons on a whole lot of 4WD accessories and modifications without the hype. Well done, once again old chap.
Thanks mate, I actually don't mind a little heavy metal/hard rock..... :) While I've got the new(ist) power up CD by acdc in the work truck, I think the last album I listened to was Come in and Burn by The Rollins Band! I might start using a little music for trip videos, so brace for impact!
Love this video and Tnx so much for taking the time to post it with such a derail. I have one question, which OBD2 reader is the one in the video? Love to have something like this so I can monitor things in detail and live. Many Tnx
Have you tested one of the cyclone snorkel heads? They certainly catch a lot of dirt and keep the air filter cleaner, but how much do they affect performance?
Found it just after I commented. I was quite surprised by the result. Certainly means I'm not going with a stainless snorkel now and will get a standard instead.
Already collected the filters, everything from a standard Toyota filter, K&N, oiled foam and even the cheapest one I can find on ebay! Also picked up a particulate (dust) meter to accurately replicate actual use conditions.
I've checked my sealed airbox after driving 2 hours at freeway speeds in heavy rain. I maybe had about 30ml of water in the bottom of the air box, so nothing to worry about.
I imagine after the air filter any difference would be negligible and compensated for by the fuel management computer. Likely more difference with altitude changes.
From what I know the ram heads are designed to catch and drain any water being sucked in. If you look you can see the grooves that drain out. There is those wierd vortex snorks aswell where the air and whatever else comes. With it spins around in the snork head first which pushes any particles or water to the sides which have little separators that catch water or dirt ECT and spins it out the bottom of the snork head. Also the ram force is very little in reality anyway so even if your driving a TD you only hit ram over 100kmph in which your probs spooling in 5th going to 6th anyway then your probs sitting on like 1700rpm no boost ram force will not put your car into boost from the air pressure increase. Your TD is probs running up 8-12 Psi easy which ram will never generate. More air the better 👌
Great video. Would love to see you make one comparing tyre or wheel weight. I recently went to upgrade wheels and tyres from stock and was shocked that I was about to add over 15kg per wheel! That’s got to hurt performance.
Great idea, it's not just overall weight, it's how the weight is distributed that matters most. Rotational inertia is how far the mass is in relation to the axis of rotation. And that's an issue for AT/Mud tyres where most of the mass is in the tread and the sidewall. This makes it considerably harder to accelerate and stop the wheel.
@@LockyourHubs4WDing on my specific scenario I have a new JL wrangler with stock 32 inch bfg muddies. Stock rims without tyres weigh about 10kg. I was looking to move to a dirty life brand wheel that would weigh about 20kg. Add to that I’d probably go to a tyre any where from a 33-35 inch. I’d be looking at least 15-25kg increase at each corner! And we haven’t even started on the losses from the larger diameter. Be great to see you do a video even if it just keeps it simple and sticks to just the weight increase. Good channel, keep it up :)
I've wanted to try this test before but too tight to fork out for a decent meter. Could you run the same test with a clean and dirty sock on front of the ram head?
Young Fella is installing ss snorkels and does a good job of fitting them, a couple a week backyard garage. Local 4wd club loves him. I assume he will grow out of it and eventually be embarrassed. But it is a thing certainly in Tasmania to buy and drown an expensive 4wd. If plastic ones leak around the guard ? & his backward or side wards ss ones are very expensive venturi s. How do you make a cyclonic cleaner sexy ?
@@LockyourHubs4WDing to a degree. If turbos can force air then a ram can too. How about a cheap inexpensive fan assisted intake amassing a few pounds of pressure.
Would it make much difference with big turbo diesels say like a 200 series? They are the ones where safari have two different sizes in snorkle so maybe more restrictions. Would be good to see
You sure about the two different sizes for Safari , I have only seen the one size for my Y62 it's big , as far as I know only one size for the 200 series also .
Great test, I’m surprised there is such a difference between backward and stainless pipe. I thought they would be pretty similar. You don’t have a wind tunnel and some smoke somewhere? Would be great to see what’s going on....
I would love a wind tunnel! The better 3/4s, probably not so much... My understanding is the abrupt end just after the bend effectively chokes down the flow, like having a much smaller diameter end on it. The ram head, has a much gentler bend and a straight section before the bend really helps the flow. That's why I assume you don't see anyone with an R&D budget, like Safari, producing backward facing stainless snorkel that seem to have come into fashion of late.
@@LockyourHubs4WDing you don't see anyone that races 4wd's with a plastic piece of shit safari snorkel either, nor do you see any high horse power engines with a small safari snorkel. Naturally aspirated vs turbo has many many different factors that you haven't even come close to touching on. Not to mention the slight voltage increase on maf sensors for forward facing vs reverses facing playing a part on fuelling changes
Good work with this testing, but you are doing it on a Suzuki (a V6 aspirated petrol engine?) I wonder if results would be similar on a turbo diesel. I read somewhere that the benefits of ram-air are not significant where that engine is already receiving pressurised air from a turbo pump.
I've heard that as well, I'm not sure where it originated from. A turbocharger's compressor doesn't make a cetain amount of boost for a certain amount of exhaust flow. The compressor wheel creates a certain pressure ratio for a certain amount of exhaust flow. So the higher the initial pressure, the even higher resultant pressure, the same as compound turbocharging systems work.
The turbo still needs air. And pushing air into the turbo will h er lp slightly. How compound turbo work. Im gyessing people noticed a bigger difference on a naturally aspirated diesel because they need all the help they can get. Same as cold weather makes them go better.
It would be like sucking in a vacuum as opposed to normal air, think about how drag racing cars are set up, all intakes face forward and in interrupted
Issue is that airbox, make the airbox and snorkel large enough that the engine doesnt even know you have a long straw hanging off the side and you have true efficiency
The difference is "pressure". If the entry has positive pressure the effect is higher MAP. Like being at low altitude with "high" air pressure around the entry orifice. With negative pressure the MAP will be lower, like being at the top of a mountain where the air is thin. A large snorkel forward will have positive pressure and a rear facing one still has low inlet pressure due to the turbulence it creates. In among the turbulence the flow or air is all over the place and not going straight in it's all fluffy and has to turn 180deg to enter.
With the stainless backward snorkel, it's following the trend from winch truck racing. Then fabricators who I assume put trends ahead of function started producing them for road cars. You'll notice the leaders in aftermarket snorkels for 4WD don't have them in their range. As to turning the ram head backward, it does affect airflow slightly, though reports it significantly reduces dust and water getting down the snorkel. I'll be testing that in the future. Though after driving at freeway speeds for a couple of hour in reasonably heavy rain with a sealed airbox, I managed to get about 40 or 50ml of water in the airbox with a forward facing ramhead. Not nearly enough to cause an issue, though some did slip past the keeper!
your downpipe analogy, comparing your snorkel without a head to a 4inch mandrel bent pipe to the airbox is not accurate. i would repeat the tests with someone who actually has a 4 inch stainless to the box.
It's a comparison of air entry styles, the body (as long as it's not providing a choke point) doesn't matter. You could conduct the test either the way I did it, or using a 4" tube body with a ram head or backward facing entry. Either way, all you'll prove is a cut off right after a bend is a horribly inefficient for you engine to get air.
@@LockyourHubs4WDing no one has a plastic pipe thats just shy of 2.5 inches wide sticking up near there windshield. all im saying is the test is innacurate as a stainless snorkel is 4 inches mandrel bent to the box. there is no chokepoints like a safari has at the neck of the pipe.
Quite frankly these test results make no sense. How is a reverse facing ram head performing so much better than a reverse facing stainless snorkel? They’re facing the same direction so shouldnt the results be similar.
@@LockyourHubs4WDing I've found 10-15hp loss at the wheels is common. Increasing the inlet length, adding bends and more restrictions is always going to drop the airflow.
@@dinosshed The length over the standard intake and the bends necessary to get the inlet up to the top of the windscreen as you correctly pointed out is always going to cost you airflow. The trick is to minimize the losses while still providing the utility of a snorkel like reduced water ingress and decreased dust.
@@LockyourHubs4WDing there's no difference between the debris injested or the air temperature. The air at the front of the vehicle is the same temperature as what it is a metre above next to the windscreen, same results for the debris. The only reason for fitting a snorkel is to keep the inlet out of the water, any other claim is usually 99.9% horse shit.
there is other issues with forward facing snorkel with ram head .... with it forward sucks in water when raining wetting the filter element which in turn will suck water in to engine mud can get in if travelling threw mud puddles backwards (which i run my snorkle) it stops filter element getting wet and sucking water in to engine stops mud getting in gives induction sound
Some like or dislike the induction sound, that's personal preference. Ram heads are designed to eject water and dust, though I haven't seen any independent testing to verify it either way.
@@LockyourHubs4WDing I have, I remove my forward facing Safari ARMAX ram air head & clean the dust & grit from inside it & the relief ports, rain water is a non issue. No mud ever makes it to the dirty side of the filter element on my VDJ79R, mud being heavier than air & doesn't go around bends or defy gravity. I've been bogged to the tray & had to fit chains recently to pull some other 4WD's, had to winch out in both cases & the VDJ79R was well coated in mud both times but no mud went anywhere near the forward facing Safari Armax ram air head.
@@dustyfarmer I'm not at all against the idea of a prefilter, especially in dusty conditions. I'm collecting parts at the moment for a prefilter comparison, cyclonic vs sock vs ram head cover vs forward and backward ram heads. Might also drop in stainless backward! We'll be looking at airflow, dust and water. Anything you guys want to know?
@@LockyourHubs4WDing I tried some of those pull over ram head oiled foam prefilters last summer. They did catch dust but dried out pretty quickly & I notice the maker says they shouldn't be run as a daily thing as the sun will destroy the foam on them. I've seen people over oil them in place & have oil run down the inside of the snorkel. Oiled type airfilters can contaminate & coat the MAF sensor too making the motor run rough or use extra fuel among other issues. I tip the Donaldson cyclonic pre-filter will come out tops when it comes to separating particles.
Cyclonic separation have been used in industry for many years before Dyson starting making vacuum cleaners! It usually works very well, we'll see though how much it impedes the airflow vs the seperation benifet.
Great channel, the thing I like about this channel is that he puts science behind his tests!
Cheers! We try to present facts here, not just opinions.
Love this channel. Still relevant 2 years later. Would love to see you experiment with other basic mods to find biggest bang for buck!
Thanks mate, after a short hiatus, I'm getting back into it and going to open a can of worms on the next one..... Keep an eye out! This one is going to upset everyone 😂
Excellent video mate. You should do a fuel economy video on backwards vs forwards.. or snorkel vs no snorkel.
Cheers! Might look at the economy aspect futher down the track.
Brilliant mate! Aussie Myth Busters. Love it!
Thanks mate, too much opinion out there on UA-cam, not enough testing!
@@LockyourHubs4WDing G'day mate, well done cant argue with the science. Have you had a chance to check what the forward facing ram head on a 4" down pipe tells you.
Honestly looks like an Aussie Jamie 🤣
Jamie who? Lol
@@LockyourHubs4WDing Jamie hyneman thr bloke from mythbusters 🤣
Great video, these are questions I had myself and I haven't even purchased my first 4wd yet.
Glad the video helped!
So much for pieces of pipe they use for a snorkel. I personally think a pressurised air flow would be better than a reverse snorkel that has air pulling on the entry point. My twin turbo 200 needs all the air it can get. Thanks matey.
Those 200s pull like a train even from low revs, you definelty don't want to choke the airflow to a 200!
@@LockyourHubs4WDing Sounds like a train too lol......
Beautiful. Thank you so much. Best review .
Thanks!
great video 👌🏻.. I would love to a conparison between forward facing ram head with prefilter and reverse facing ram head
Thanks!
So my backwards pointing snorkel ca stay. Good, i like trolling people who get mad when you point it backwards. 1% loss on a landrover isn't going to make you any faster
Or my 1HZ 'Cruiser!
That & the fact that your Landrover does not go fast enough to benefit from a ram air snorkel head.
Lock your Hubs 4WDing ..now being shackled to a defender and using an oiled unifilter on a forward facing ram usually in only heavy dusty trips but looking at a Donaldson style cyclonic for filter life, water removal and ease of dumping out any dust at the end of the day,what would be you’re thoughts on that.?..perhaps a tad less efficient , likley more engine protection,easier maintenance ,and no washing out a foam filter with your drinking water. You’re thoughts? -----exelent use of covid 19 btw these bids have looked at issues that are long overdue ...cheers mark
I got sick of this ongoing argument so I made my own snorkel head which doesn't draw air facing forward or backwards. It pulls in the air from an opening underneath the snorkel head. So the intake opening is actually facing downwards. Don't have to listen to weekend warriors claiming which direction is the best now, because the facing down version beats all of the arguments.
Even I'm confused now!
It's a cover on the intake pipe that allows air in the bottom of the cover
Aka "cylindrical" or "can" head snorkel
Idk the terminology
@@After_Tech_Industries Yes that is correct, it is a curved fiberglass deflector that fits neatly into the front of the "Forward Facing snorkel" & draws all the air upward from underneath. It makes the intake a tiny bit smaller (by 5mm all round) but it doesn't degrade highway performance. In actual fact, it seems to have more grunt under load since fitting it.
You have to remove 15-20mm of plastic from the bottom of the head opening though to make the new opening big enough & because of this it doesn't stick out or hang down and look weird either. It tucks neatly in the snorkel head opening and is held by 2 stainless steel screws that the normal screen is held on with. Unless you really look hard you don't even notice the difference.
These Snorkel heads a cheap as chips so buy one & have a go at making one for yourself. I guess you could use metal but fiberglass is so easy if you use a hunk of closed cell (surfboard type) Styrofoam as a blank to get the perfect shape. Get it a perfect fit so it fits tight inside the snorkel head then remove/sand about 3mm of foam off the area all round where it fits inside the snorkel so it is a tiny bit smaller/loose fit (the fiberglass will fill this gap). Once its set use thinner or petrol to melt the foam out of your new deflector, sand it & paint it black and Bob's your uncle..
Honestly, there is much less dust, leaf & insects debris in my filter now which is why I did it. Protects against teaming rain also which is a bonus. Would be brilliant in snow or where salt is used on roads
good vid - im gonna go turn mine around tomorrow
It'll upset your mates 😁!
Great stuff as usual, and without the stupid heavy metal music that some other well known and prominent channels (who shall remain nameless) seem to think impresses me. Just really good to hear and see scientifically based comparisons on a whole lot of 4WD accessories and modifications without the hype.
Well done, once again old chap.
Thanks mate, I actually don't mind a little heavy metal/hard rock..... :) While I've got the new(ist) power up CD by acdc in the work truck, I think the last album I listened to was Come in and Burn by The Rollins Band!
I might start using a little music for trip videos, so brace for impact!
Love this video and Tnx so much for taking the time to post it with such a derail. I have one question, which OBD2 reader is the one in the video? Love to have something like this so I can monitor things in detail and live. Many Tnx
It's the Ultragauge www.ultra-gauge.com/ultragauge/
Have you tested one of the cyclone snorkel heads?
They certainly catch a lot of dirt and keep the air filter cleaner, but how much do they affect performance?
I have, search through the videos
Found it just after I commented.
I was quite surprised by the result. Certainly means I'm not going with a stainless snorkel now and will get a standard instead.
@@sheridancowling6257 definitely!
Whats happen in rainy days? Its better back position or front position? Or what do yo think about rain interceptor? Or holes ir airbox?
We have a prefilter test coming up that includes both forward and backward facing ram head rain performance (and dust) so keep an eye out!
Hey mate, what scan tool is that, that you’re using?
Ultra gauge!
@@LockyourHubs4WDing cheers!
Have you done the same test on a turbo diesel?
Could you please test the foam filter that goes over the Ram head.
Hmmm.. might just do that!
Filters too, paper to foam...
Already collected the filters, everything from a standard Toyota filter, K&N, oiled foam and even the cheapest one I can find on ebay!
Also picked up a particulate (dust) meter to accurately replicate actual use conditions.
Have been told snorkels are bad in the rain , air filter gets soaked...
I've checked my sealed airbox after driving 2 hours at freeway speeds in heavy rain. I maybe had about 30ml of water in the bottom of the air box, so nothing to worry about.
And what is the pressure difference at the throttle body?
No idea! I didn't measure either side of the throttle body.
I imagine after the air filter any difference would be negligible and compensated for by the fuel management computer.
Likely more difference with altitude changes.
What about less dust debris and water with rear-facing to forward?
I'm going to test just that in an upcoming video!
Thats why filters
From what I know the ram heads are designed to catch and drain any water being sucked in. If you look you can see the grooves that drain out. There is those wierd vortex snorks aswell where the air and whatever else comes. With it spins around in the snork head first which pushes any particles or water to the sides which have little separators that catch water or dirt ECT and spins it out the bottom of the snork head. Also the ram force is very little in reality anyway so even if your driving a TD you only hit ram over 100kmph in which your probs spooling in 5th going to 6th anyway then your probs sitting on like 1700rpm no boost ram force will not put your car into boost from the air pressure increase. Your TD is probs running up 8-12 Psi easy which ram will never generate. More air the better 👌
Great video. Would love to see you make one comparing tyre or wheel weight. I recently went to upgrade wheels and tyres from stock and was shocked that I was about to add over 15kg per wheel! That’s got to hurt performance.
Great idea, it's not just overall weight, it's how the weight is distributed that matters most.
Rotational inertia is how far the mass is in relation to the axis of rotation. And that's an issue for AT/Mud tyres where most of the mass is in the tread and the sidewall.
This makes it considerably harder to accelerate and stop the wheel.
@@LockyourHubs4WDing on my specific scenario I have a new JL wrangler with stock 32 inch bfg muddies. Stock rims without tyres weigh about 10kg. I was looking to move to a dirty life brand wheel that would weigh about 20kg. Add to that I’d probably go to a tyre any where from a 33-35 inch. I’d be looking at least 15-25kg increase at each corner! And we haven’t even started on the losses from the larger diameter. Be great to see you do a video even if it just keeps it simple and sticks to just the weight increase. Good channel, keep it up :)
@@Rushdie01 thanks mate, I've already added it to my video ideas board! Cheers.
And if is raining? Is not bad for the engine if I have a snorkel?
The snorkel head is designed to shed the water and does a pretty good job of it.
Great video is it possible to test this on gravel roads?
For a dust ingestion comparison?
I've wanted to try this test before but too tight to fork out for a decent meter. Could you run the same test with a clean and dirty sock on front of the ram head?
I was thinking of a cyclonic head vs internal sock vs external sock on ram head comparison.
Lock your Hubs 4WDing that would be an interesting clip as well 👍🏼
Young Fella is installing ss snorkels and does a good job of fitting them, a couple a week backyard garage. Local 4wd club loves him. I assume he will grow out of it and eventually be embarrassed. But it is a thing certainly in Tasmania to buy and drown an expensive 4wd. If plastic ones leak around the guard ? & his backward or side wards ss ones are very expensive venturi s. How do you make a cyclonic cleaner sexy ?
You're never going to make a cyclonic head sexy, just as high heeled shoes are never going to be practical, but some women still love them.
Has a comparison been done between the standard intake vs snorkel?
Sure have! ua-cam.com/video/xgTEFFSRh2A/v-deo.html
Can you tell me if a/your snorkel increases mpg? If so, how much? Thanks!
There would be a very small increase I would guess.
@@LockyourHubs4WDing I’ve seen others say .5 -2 mpg
It would depend on a lot of factors, how bad or good was the original induction setup downstream of the airbox and how well the snorkel setup flows.
So are you running yours forward or backwards?
Mostly forward, except in heavy snow, then I run it backward.
@@LockyourHubs4WDing Cheers!
Straight Stainless No Good?
Please Explain,,,
Surely Its Tuned To New Snorkle
It's no so much the body of the snorkel, but the inlet, the straight cut off just after a bend really hampers flow.
Try doubling the intake size, I've never thought that they were big enough.
You're still only going to flow as much air as the choke point at a given pressure will allow.
@@LockyourHubs4WDing to a degree. If turbos can force air then a ram can too. How about a cheap inexpensive fan assisted intake amassing a few pounds of pressure.
Have seen some videos that show fuel economy improves with backward facing. Probably due to power loss. Maybe an experiment for you?
Great idea!
Interested in performance in the top end cruising speed, say 100km/h and fuel economy
At cruise the airflow requirements are less than under hard acceleration, that's why I used those as opposed to steady speed runs.
Would it make much difference with big turbo diesels say like a 200 series? They are the ones where safari have two different sizes in snorkle so maybe more restrictions. Would be good to see
You sure about the two different sizes for Safari , I have only seen the one size for my Y62 it's big , as far as I know only one size for the 200 series also .
I believe the armax has been designed for modified cars where as the other is suitable for standard cars. I've seen both for the 200 series.
@@jackofjr yeah there is two sizes for the 200 series.
Put a reverse blade whirlybird on the top so the spin accelerates a vortex downwards lol
Now that's thinking outside the box! :)
Great test, I’m surprised there is such a difference between backward and stainless pipe. I thought they would be pretty similar. You don’t have a wind tunnel and some smoke somewhere? Would be great to see what’s going on....
I would love a wind tunnel! The better 3/4s, probably not so much... My understanding is the abrupt end just after the bend effectively chokes down the flow, like having a much smaller diameter end on it. The ram head, has a much gentler bend and a straight section before the bend really helps the flow.
That's why I assume you don't see anyone with an R&D budget, like Safari, producing backward facing stainless snorkel that seem to have come into fashion of late.
@@LockyourHubs4WDing you don't see anyone that races 4wd's with a plastic piece of shit safari snorkel either, nor do you see any high horse power engines with a small safari snorkel.
Naturally aspirated vs turbo has many many different factors that you haven't even come close to touching on. Not to mention the slight voltage increase on maf sensors for forward facing vs reverses facing playing a part on fuelling changes
the stainless full pipe is shaped nothing like the experiment nozzle. don't know why he's called it strainless.
great work, can you do a fuel economy run on forward and back, please?
I haven't, though am slowly doing a 91, vs E10 vs 98 petrol comparison, so keep an eye out for that one!
Good work with this testing, but you are doing it on a Suzuki (a V6 aspirated petrol engine?) I wonder if results would be similar on a turbo diesel. I read somewhere that the benefits of ram-air are not significant where that engine is already receiving pressurised air from a turbo pump.
I've heard that as well, I'm not sure where it originated from. A turbocharger's compressor doesn't make a cetain amount of boost for a certain amount of exhaust flow. The compressor wheel creates a certain pressure ratio for a certain amount of exhaust flow. So the higher the initial pressure, the even higher resultant pressure, the same as compound turbocharging systems work.
The turbo still needs air. And pushing air into the turbo will h er lp slightly. How compound turbo work. Im gyessing people noticed a bigger difference on a naturally aspirated diesel because they need all the help they can get. Same as cold weather makes them go better.
It would be like sucking in a vacuum as opposed to normal air, think about how drag racing cars are set up, all intakes face forward and in interrupted
Can you do snorkel vs standard ?
I already have!
ua-cam.com/video/xgTEFFSRh2A/v-deo.html
you need to collect multiple data points and do a P-test for statistical significance.
While there is some validity in a p-test, probably better off with multiple tests and establish the standard deviation to validate the data.
Issue is that airbox, make the airbox and snorkel large enough that the engine doesnt even know you have a long straw hanging off the side and you have true efficiency
The airbox and filter don't provide that much of a restriction.
The difference is "pressure". If the entry has positive pressure the effect is higher MAP. Like being at low altitude with "high" air pressure around the entry orifice. With negative pressure the MAP will be lower, like being at the top of a mountain where the air is thin. A large snorkel forward will have positive pressure and a rear facing one still has low inlet pressure due to the turbulence it creates. In among the turbulence the flow or air is all over the place and not going straight in it's all fluffy and has to turn 180deg to enter.
I didn't really understand the premise and I still don't get why people mount them backwards.
With the stainless backward snorkel, it's following the trend from winch truck racing. Then fabricators who I assume put trends ahead of function started producing them for road cars.
You'll notice the leaders in aftermarket snorkels for 4WD don't have them in their range.
As to turning the ram head backward, it does affect airflow slightly, though reports it significantly reduces dust and water getting down the snorkel.
I'll be testing that in the future. Though after driving at freeway speeds for a couple of hour in reasonably heavy rain with a sealed airbox, I managed to get about 40 or 50ml of water in the airbox with a forward facing ramhead. Not nearly enough to cause an issue, though some did slip past the keeper!
your downpipe analogy, comparing your snorkel without a head to a 4inch mandrel bent pipe to the airbox is not accurate. i would repeat the tests with someone who actually has a 4 inch stainless to the box.
It's a comparison of air entry styles, the body (as long as it's not providing a choke point) doesn't matter. You could conduct the test either the way I did it, or using a 4" tube body with a ram head or backward facing entry.
Either way, all you'll prove is a cut off right after a bend is a horribly inefficient for you engine to get air.
@@LockyourHubs4WDing no one has a plastic pipe thats just shy of 2.5 inches wide sticking up near there windshield. all im saying is the test is innacurate as a stainless snorkel is 4 inches mandrel bent to the box. there is no chokepoints like a safari has at the neck of the pipe.
@@DeejayManii mandrel bends also aren't the most efficient way of getting air to turn around a corner (though better than press bends)
Quite frankly these test results make no sense. How is a reverse facing ram head performing so much better than a reverse facing stainless snorkel? They’re facing the same direction so shouldnt the results be similar.
It proves that it's not the way it's facing, it's the shape of the entry that is the main determining factor to increase airflow/decrease restriction.
Snorkel will loose power every day of the week no matter which way they face.
In comparison with a standard setup?
@@LockyourHubs4WDing yes, unless the stock version is poorly designed.
@@LockyourHubs4WDing I've found 10-15hp loss at the wheels is common. Increasing the inlet length, adding bends and more restrictions is always going to drop the airflow.
@@dinosshed The length over the standard intake and the bends necessary to get the inlet up to the top of the windscreen as you correctly pointed out is always going to cost you airflow.
The trick is to minimize the losses while still providing the utility of a snorkel like reduced water ingress and decreased dust.
@@LockyourHubs4WDing there's no difference between the debris injested or the air temperature. The air at the front of the vehicle is the same temperature as what it is a metre above next to the windscreen, same results for the debris. The only reason for fitting a snorkel is to keep the inlet out of the water, any other claim is usually 99.9% horse shit.
there is other issues with forward facing snorkel with ram head ....
with it forward
sucks in water when raining wetting the filter element which in turn will suck water in to engine
mud can get in if travelling threw mud puddles
backwards (which i run my snorkle)
it stops filter element getting wet and sucking water in to engine
stops mud getting in
gives induction sound
Some like or dislike the induction sound, that's personal preference.
Ram heads are designed to eject water and dust, though I haven't seen any independent testing to verify it either way.
@@LockyourHubs4WDing I have, I remove my forward facing Safari ARMAX ram air head & clean the dust & grit from inside it & the relief ports, rain water is a non issue.
No mud ever makes it to the dirty side of the filter element on my VDJ79R, mud being heavier than air & doesn't go around bends or defy gravity.
I've been bogged to the tray & had to fit chains recently to pull some other 4WD's, had to winch out in both cases & the VDJ79R was well coated in mud both times but no mud went anywhere near the forward facing Safari Armax ram air head.
@@dustyfarmer I'm not at all against the idea of a prefilter, especially in dusty conditions.
I'm collecting parts at the moment for a prefilter comparison, cyclonic vs sock vs ram head cover vs forward and backward ram heads. Might also drop in stainless backward! We'll be looking at airflow, dust and water. Anything you guys want to know?
@@LockyourHubs4WDing I tried some of those pull over ram head oiled foam prefilters last summer. They did catch dust but dried out pretty quickly & I notice the maker says they shouldn't be run as a daily thing as the sun will destroy the foam on them. I've seen people over oil them in place & have oil run down the inside of the snorkel. Oiled type airfilters can contaminate & coat the MAF sensor too making the motor run rough or use extra fuel among other issues. I tip the Donaldson cyclonic pre-filter will come out tops when it comes to separating particles.
Cyclonic separation have been used in industry for many years before Dyson starting making vacuum cleaners! It usually works very well, we'll see though how much it impedes the airflow vs the seperation benifet.