I cannot speak to every inexpensive AR, nor every expensive one, but I do own two high end AR's ($2,000+) and about 4 "cheap" AR's ($800 or less). And have many thousands of rounds through them all and not one has ever failed dramatically. And the failures that occur are almost always mag or ammo related. And inside of 200 yards, all of them have perfectly acceptable accuracy. I think we live in a golden age at the moment when even the cheap AR's are pretty darn good. So I just don't think buying expensive is really needed.
And the beautiful thing about ARs, in particular, is that even if you buy a cheap AR, you can upgrade the components that matter. The barrel, the BCG, the charging handle, all of it can be upgraded to high-end parts that make your otherwise cheap AR into a high-FUNCTIONING machine.
My first AR was from Bushmaster. Did everything I asked of it. My current AR cost over $4K. Functionally the same, but the details are much more refined, it has a tighter grouping with match grade ammo when the barrel is hot, and the scope is vastly better. To appreciate a high end gun, you really need to understand that particular type of gun well. For most good folks, a low priced AR will be just fine. Way better to have an inexpensive AR than none at all, IMO.
@@davidgreen5099 but that last ten percent of quality is performance potential the average shooter can't make use of. and depending upon the nature of the "quality", it might actually mean it's not a durable SHTF rifle, and instead a range queen. Also, the 10% improvement never ends. it's not as if their is a ceiling on that. They just keep making things 10% better over and over and over. each time costing more and more and more, but you get back less and less and less in return.
@Baldspot actually, its a BRO Spec-15 A2. Its kind of a weird choice but it is what my gun store had in stock in my budget and I hopped on the opportunity. Its worked great for me whenever I go to the range so I guess thats all that really matters 🇺🇲
I’m sure your $700 AR is a blast & in my book that’s a fine rig. I have an extreme budget AR just for fun & a have very expensive one for competition. I have equal fun with both & would not sell either one. 2 different tools, 2 different jobs.
I’m a mechanic in a factory. I have Snapon tools. I have harbor freight tools. Snapon is over rated and over priced. Harbor freight is mostly cheap but have stuff that works just fine. There is a TON of shit in the middle that’s great. Same thing goes with cars. Same shit goes with rifles.
Hey now! I've done a lot of automotive work with my Harbor Freight tools and they've held up perfectly over the years. Cheap doesn't always mean bad. If you think you're too good for cheaper products your attitude is the problem, not the products.
I have been turning a wrench for almost 30 years. While I will say some tools it doesn't matter much there is definitely a difference in some between the harbor freight type and the snap on type. To say otherwise is disingenuous at best.
His point is not that. His point was, "Let's say you carry your gun everyday. Why not get something built tougher. He didn't say Lancer or Hk plastic. He said Magpul plastic, there are levels to it. But almost always after a certain point you are paying for the brand name or a luxury item determination.
As a mechanic I learned cheap works sometimes but sometimes expensive is the move. Which is why my AR build is starting to be all over the place in expense lol
Let me be clear! This video is not about BCM, LMT, etc.. It's also NOT about PSA (Palmetto State Armory), I own/shoot several PSA products personally and think quite highly of them, they are another good reminder that inexpensive and cheap are two different things. In the words of the great Forrest Gump, "That's all I got to say about that".
I also own a few PSA items. All have had no issues. If you're regularly shooting out to 300yds+ and 20k rounds you may want a hammer forged barrel or the like however
I own multiple PSA products as well, they have had thousands of rounds through them. They have been in the rain, fallen off of 4 wheelers, all kinds of stuff. Still accurate, still reliable
Go watch Tim over at Military Arms Channel when he took a factory tour of PSA. PSA is definitely on the right track. I too own PSA and love it, I also own mid grade, and High end (Wilson Combat). I would be lying if I said there was no difference in fit and finish, but I am a lot harder on the PSA than I am on the $2300 WC..
I turned my nose up at PSA for a long time thinking it was the K-Mart of the gun world. Then a buddy bought one and I couldn’t find anything I didn’t like about it. I bought one in 6.5 grendel and I absolutely love it. Never a single problem with it, running in all conditions imaginable. Accuracy is on par with much more expensive rifles.
Honestly I have been vary surprised by the PSA items. Tolerances are not as good as a Daniel's Defense but as a starter, all the controls are in the same positions and basically function the same. Much of the added cost is for enhanced parts with additional features or better tolerances.
I am sure a gucchi AR is better than a lower end one, but the marginal benefit for the increased costs generally doesn't seem proportional in the least for some of the vendors.
As a range toy or home defense rifle that won’t take a serious beating, yes I totally agree. BUT for a SHTF rifle or a rifle u know will have to survive taking a beating, in that case u want to buy a top notch rifle.
Here's the thing, people will take these 'budget' rifles and drag them through hell, fire thousands of rounds with minimal problems, then turn around and say they will use and trust their 'high-end' rifle instead. One of these rifles is better than no rifle.
Wrong. People will say they’ve put them through hell, drug them through the dirt, and have fired thousands of rounds through them… but in reality these people will maybe put a couple hundred rounds per year through them at the range and maybe a hunt or two. Dudes don’t shoot that much, generally speaking, nor do they really run them through adverse environments 🤷🏻♂️
I've been building and shooting Anderson, Spikes and Aero uppers and lowers with Toolcraft BCG's for about ten years without a hitch. I buy bulk Hornady SP's and load buckets of ammo on a 550B Dillon, so I shoot the crap out of my AR's and they've not fallen apart...
Toolcraft BCGs - and I have bought their DLC - are very well made. I've also bought Next Level Armament with DLC; another well made. Aero is an excellent brand - I've bought stripped uppers and lowers, build parts (other than triggers), and floating handguards from them. 😀
A lot of people bought/buy these things out of fear and end up collecting dust in the closet. So any AR will work. In my line of work I have two sets of tools. The snap-ons stay in the shop. Harbor Freight tools go in the field. Field tools are always being lost, and we've found Harbor Freight germination rates to be no worse than snap-ons. At a fraction of the cost. As was stated, the AR is a tool. Get two! 😉 Thanks for the vid.
Ah... so you have noticed that Snap-On will plow under just as well as no name cheap stuff. Must be a law of the universe. -And- Snap-On with enough effort can be bent / broken also. It's still man made metal. I do often use the cheaper stuff when the torch helps make that custom bent wrench for the one time use... Everything has it's place.
OK. So, I am an 07 FFL gunsmith and have been building rifles for quite some time now, as well as a retired LtCol of Marines who foisted many a low bidder weapon system for 24 years. There are in fact some low ball manufacturers out there, but the fact is, three manufacturers make most of the AR receivers on the market. Mil Spec being what it is, for an AR15 at least, there are minor differences in tolerance or specs for receivers. Mounting systems, materials etc make a huge difference, but I have seen PSA AR's outperform Daniels Defense and Geissele...depends on too many variables to make a straight up comparison. Torture tests routinely show that even the low end stuff will outlast most folks needs for an AR. I am only talking reputable manufacturers. Mount the chinesium crap at your own risk. Most folks don't use, or can't shoot enough to really ever stress most of the stuff out there. I build and sell Aero Precision the most. Best cost to performance for the brands I sell. I'd put one of their sourced rifles that I built against a DD or Geissele any day...
I think Aero's M4E1 recievers are some of the best on the market. More importantly, they look cool and we all know looking cool is the most important thing.
Some people spend around thousands dollars on an AR then treat the thing like a priceless piece of art, and not a tool, and some are afraid to use it because it's too expensive.🤷🏽♂️
@@marsoelflaco5722 I guess it is a phenomenon not restricted to firearms. People often fail to consider what it takes to maintain, well, just about everything.
I spent a good amount building mine and while I don't try to abuse it or torture test it, I also don't baby it and worry about if it gets a little scratch or banged around a little bit.
The BCG and barrel is where you can't cut corners. Everything else as long as its milspec will be the right material with the right dimensions. Don't pay for the big name.
Microbest and AO Precision, two of the best OEMS for standard Milspec BGC's, can be had for under $100 bucks routinely, if you watch for sales. Then you have companies like Ballistic Advantage, Faxon, and Rosco, making quality barrels, that are readily available, and don't cost a fortune. There's a threshold you need to meet, but after that the diminishing returns are massive.
Thank you!!! As a new gun owner I currently don't see myself spending over $800 for a rifle. BCA sells cold hammer forged barrels and has uppers with mid length gas systems. The two things Daniel Defense owners rave about the most. But you can get those things from budget companies. So, now I'm really confused as to why anyone would spend $2,500+ for any rifle.
When I got into guns, I learned quickly the same motto that applies to tattoos applies to guns: "good tattoos aren't cheap, and cheap tattoos aren't good." I will say, though, after getting deeper into guns, there is a bit of cost-benefit analysis research you gotta do because some cheaper manufactures are surprisingly good and some guns that are overpriced pieces of junk.
Uh no. S&W ARs aren't that good quality. At minimum Bravo Company Manufacturing is what people should go with if they need a quality home defense AR15.
@DragonsOfThunder You missed the point in this video where he mentions firearms longevity. Any budget brand can work for the first 1,000 rounds or less before the problems manifest and reliability problems occur as parts prematurely wear out or break. Kyle fired less than 10 rounds. Do you want to bet your life on less than 10 rounds or would you rather bet it on a rifle that can go thousands of rounds? I guess you just keep your budget AR in the closet and never train with it. How many defense carbine courses are taking per year? Do you consider plinking at beer bottles behind your double-wide "training"?
Same, bought my M&P15 brand new for $800 (first one I owned), it was as good as what I was issued in the military. But I can build them from parts for cheaper, and still be equivalent quality.
I've seen those for sale without optics for $500, I know someone who bought one a few years ago for that. $1,000 seems like a lot for an M&P unless it comes with a really nice optic like an Aimpoint PRO or something.
@@brianfischer5609 This is the point I make too. My Armalite Eagle AR15 is certainly good enough for me. Since I'm not going into combat or competition, its just fine.
I had a friend who wore a $5000 Rolex. I wore a $100 Seiko. They both told us the correct time whenever we needed to know what the time was. My Seiko lasted about 8 years. I feel the same way about most guns. High prices are very often a function of higher profit margins. Guns that are just a little better are priced much higher because of brand name recognition. Spend your money as you see fit, but don't think a gun will do the job better just because you paid a lot more for it.
That's not really true. Typically, with higher end manufacturers like Daniel Defense and LMT, you're paying for them to retool their machines more often so they have more consistency in their design. Additionally, when you start to get into areas like night vision lasers, only the high quality rail systems actually hold zero.
@@stevenpatti9460 And which of those rifles have actually been used in “combat”? Neither. The military has been running Colt’s for decades. A 6920 can be had for under a grand. That’s a battle-proven rifle, unlike both you just mentioned. Do you have any idea how many cops run a $600 M&P Sport II in the back of their cruisers too?
@@southernfried19 That's plain wrong. The navy seals and other SOCOM units having been using Daniel Defense systems like the DDM4 RIS 2 and MK-18 as well as LMT systems for over a decade. Do your research
@@stevenpatti9460 Beat me to it. The worlds elite fighting forces are generally using higher end tools like Knights Armament, LMT, HK, Daniel Defense among others.
People get 'Good Enough' mixed up with 'As Good As', and they are NOT the same! My '08 Ford Escape is pushing 445k miles and still hums--IOW, while it's not 'As Good As' a lot of other vehicles, it's 'Good Enough' for me. When I went AR shopping, I did stay away from makes I wasn't familiar with, but also the really high-end guns, and settled on an S&W Sport II and am totally satisfied. I run it quite a bit (and take care of it); if a part wears out, I will replace it with a better part.
Equality implies context. To say that two things are equal means also that in the context of identity the two things are not equal, else there would be one thing not two. Equality without a clear context is ambiguous.
@@PBVader God's grace and regular oil changes, I suppose. It's a V-6 with automatic 4WD. To be honest, I did have to replace the read diff a few months ago, and the computer as well, but overall, it just keeps humming along--and it's PAID FOR!
@@petesheppard1709" paid for" is the best part. Keep her truckin and be easy on that auto. Had a friend blow his v6 at 140thou, junk yard replacement, and the trans lost second and reverse six months later. Of course he wasn't the mindful type.
PSA is one of those 3 letter companies that fit all budgets. I have one of their first premium M4 uppers that never had a single problem for thousands of rounds through it. Battle Field Vegas use PSA Premium 10.5/11.5 uppers/BCG and they say they have lasted as long and longer than higher name brand uppers/BCGs for F/A fire.
I just had to take a psa upper apart and fix it cuz of canted sights but it's not a low quality issue just more of whoever put it together didn't do their job issue
There's another aspect to buying and building your own gun: Finding things on sale. Sure, I have a PS lower, but the insides are all CMMG that I got on sale, instead of $100 they were $60, got Magpul brand furniture too, all for a decent discount. If you know where to look and when to buy you can certainly build yourself a less expensive rifle that's durable.
Words of wisdom! It takes me a good whike to build an AR because Im patiently waiting for sales and deals. Might take 6 months to a year, but you get the high end parts you want/need for waaaaaaaay less! Just have to play the waiting game and go from end to end on the internet as well as local stores.
Mom was frugal to the point of wanting to go cheap. Dad wasn't. I remember hearing him say "Always buy the best. It's usually the cheapest." Meaning that you wouldn't have to replace it as soon.
My wife was like that-- taught to buy "as cheap as possible, ALWAYS." But now that I've introduced her to some "quality" pieces, here and there, the light has come on!💡 lol!
You can absolutely skimp in certain places and some Gucci manufacturers way overcharge and create artificially low supply. Snap-On is a great example. Lots of tools of same quality for far less. KAC, Noveske and Hodge for example are just not worth it. I do agree that there is a risk in going low end.
@Nuclear Grizzly You're also paying for better QC / QA, where every rifle is QC checked, whereas budget brands only batch checks parts & firearms or in many cases perform no QC checks at all. "Gucci" brands statically have fewer defects and stand behind their warranty, whereas budget brands often brag about having "great customer service and a warranty" as a pathetic selling point when in reality they're shady in terms of honoring any warranty.
@Dakkyz KAC uses priority designs with their E3 bolt and barrel extension, priority gas system, priority barrels, and priority rail systems. Because they're priority designs, it cost more than standard "mil spec".
@@Enjoyer.762 This is an important point. You may get lucky with less QC, but if you don't, you are stuck. Sometimes it is worth spending a bit more to know that you are paying for the manufacturer to have already weeded out the lemons.
I own a smith and Wesson M & P sport 2, which is considered a entry level AR… it’s an excellent rifle. perfectly accurate very reliable, thousands of rounds through it with no problems at all. I highly recommend it to all AR owners or soon to be owners…
I was watching a combat video out of Ukraine and one of the Ukrainian soldiers was using a M&P15. If it can be trusted on the battlefield, it can be trusted at your home.
@@qssneaky It's not exactly as if that particular Ukrainian soldier had a choice in weapon. They just get what they get and you don't really know how reliable it is or if he trusts that m&p 15. I have also seen a lot of Holosun red dots being used there but I am not prepared to say they are battlefield tested and approved.
I have had a S&W Sport AR and it has been flawless. I guess the days of 600.00 ARs are over. It has been real dependable and shoots 223 and 5.56 regularly. Not any problems. As far as a life saver, I would depend on it with my life. As far as reliability, I would put it up against any of the chinese and many American ARs made today.
These guys are just snobby. Happens with all hobbyists. I get the same treatment about my "budget" swords over in that community. Snobs gonna snob. If it shoots stuff puts holes in it and keeps on doing it ...good enough for me.
@@SoloRenegade Are you planning on having only cheap iron sights on those cause, honestly on the interwebs you hear a lot of people say they use irons on ARs, yet ask 100 people at the range and ask them when is the last they used irons or saw others using it and it's small minority, so really is you shop around, buy blemished parts and wait on sales, you can obsoletely build 2 mid range ar15 have scope/red dot that don't suck or will break if you drop them. But 3, c'mon man, it's not 10 years ago. 750 is as low as you can go these days if you are willing to put in the time and effort to get the best deals around. For some people that's fine, no problem, they'll wait all year and look up prices to save 300-500 dollars on a AR that will last as long as they live more then likely. Others, value their time more, they got other things to do, so they go with a turn key solution. The fact is, that's most gun owners. A mid range from a well known and reliable brand in the US, it will cost 950-1250, for a AR from Springfield Armory, it bring a decent red dot, made in the US, labor isn't cheap. Or built it yourself and save 300-500 dollars if you want to be waiting all year for the best deals, the mark up isn't bad if you don't want to deal with that.
@@namenotfound8747 Yes, my $600 is easily possible, but does not include optics. Optics are not a requirement, not strictly part of the rifle, they are an option. I served in the military and in combat with only iron sights on my M16 before, and we could hit 300+yds all day long. I never run a firearm without irons, ever. Batteries die, glass breaks, etc. and in a SHTF scenario there won't be batteries just lying around. "But 3, c'mon man, it's not 10 years ago. 750 is as low as you can go these days if you are willing to put in the time and effort to get the best deals around. " not true at all. If I can build 1 for under $600, that puts you in teh $1500 to $1800 range for 3 ARs. And if you actually read and comprehended what I said, you'd notice I said "ALMOST 3". Go ahead and reread my comment and let the meaning of "almost" sink in a bit and realize what I said. And nor am I talking about prices from 10yrs ago, I'm talking current pricing I've been able to get. Just have to be smarter about what you buy, when you buy it, etc. I've never spent more than $800 on an AR yet.
@@SoloRenegade When I was the Corps as a 0311 when shit did hit the fan, we didn't always had enough water, we didn't always have enough MREs, but we always had batteries and enough ammo and we still had irons. Before every patrol and we did foot patrols non of the pogshit, during pcc and pcis batteries were checked and replaced, we had 100,000 batteries sent to us per month from higher, unless Marines were dying and we were QRF and got woken up, batteries were changed everyday or if for whatever reason we were low, every 2 days standing order From BC himself. I was in the military before the Marine Corps had optics for all units as well, we still shot to 500m and even up to 700m, shooting passed 300m was a shitshow then and still is now, can it be done? Yes, but they didn't make LPVOs because Uncle Sam wanted to spend more. We took fire from RPKs heavy mortars and even Dshk. Seldom did we take fire from 300m with a AK or less unless it was in a town or city like Ramadi. This wasn't a well trained military we were fighting, it was just a few stubborn Hajis that didn't want to die. Most scopes these days don't need batteries to work, and I've seen Nightforce, Trijcon, and other types of scopes literally fall off down mountains, cliffs, 50+ ft once and the M203 broke before the ACOG did. It's not pre 911, we have stuff that doesn't suck. I got to do be a scout swimmer, we swim in open ocean, rain or shine. ACOG didn't die but the rear post of the iron sight rusted and eventually broke off, Irons sights like with all gear meant for war will brake, I seen SAWs, m16, m4 m110, javelins, stringer missiles all fail eventually. I'm not worried. Just need to adapt.
Buy a good barrel, bcg and trigger. Put it in an anderson upper and lower and k promise it runs just as good as a Daniel Defense. Don’t @ me. I said what I said.
As long as it holds up like a well-used and worn out Basic Training M16A2 rifle, it's good enough. Those things were bare metal in places, rattled, had air gaps between the receivers, abused barrels, and we were still hitting 300+yrds with them using iron sights.
Im waiting for someone to quantify the difference between two in spec AR lowers, made from the same material but one is on a DD rifle and the other is say An Aero Precision M4E1 lower. One is considered grail and the other is considered mediocre at best. Tell me, OBJECTIVELY, how this is so?
@@alanmeyers3957 exactly, aero is definitely quality. Personally as far as lowers go, as long as they are up to spec your good. Aero lowers = top notch. The dude who owns thunder ranch built his rifle with all aero components and he definitely wouldn't put his name on bs products.
I have several budget rifle builds and no problems yet. And on the cheap tool comment, I've got cheap tools that I bought 30yrs ago that I still use today.
I have built a number of rifles from PSA over the years on Anderson lowers and they were all perfect IME. They ran flawlessly. This past year I changed things up and went with an Aero Precision kit. Extremely pleased with that too. Of course, I'm the guy who bought an Olympic "Plinker Plus" 20 years ago as my first AR15. Best bad ass name ever! LOL That thing was hitting way above it's weight class! An absolute bullseye taker and it ran flawlessly. Was sorry after I traded it off to my dealer. I have yet to have had a bad AR15 honestly. They have all been more reliable than the Vietnam era M16's I used for training aboard my submarine in the Navy years ago. Those often couldn't get thru a mag without a stoppage.
Yes, was in the Navy back in the 90’s. Every M-16 I touched seemed to be a POS. And from what I understand, they were all made by Colt. And by the way…..just because it says Mil Spec, it doesn’t mean quality. Back in the day, it definitely meant “built by lowest bidder”. Hell our space shuttles we’re probably built to “mil-spec”. I agree with a lot of guys on here. Build what you can afford and use/train with it. Don’t baby these guns. They were meant to be dropped and thrown and have the crap shot out of them. If you are worried about reliability, spend a little extra on the BCG and the barrel. You can upgrade furniture later, especially after a few boo boos while training.
Everything you wrote is spot on. I was in an AFRES unit during the first sandbox conflict and we had "M-16's" that were not even A1's. They didn't even have bolt assists. The only thing I liked about them was the full-auto selector switch, but the pencil barrel heated up FAST. Aside from the name "Colt" stamped on the receivers, just about everything in any PSA is superior to those. I vividly remember the sound of the buffer spring after each round, like a spring sound effect in a cartoon. They also could not handle the chamber pressures of modern NATO ammo designed for the A2, so they were completely phased out in the late 90's.
All my 80% lower built rifles shoot 1” or less. 5.56 16”, 300blk 10”, .308 20”. All built for $450-700. Then added $100 3.5lb triggers to all. So yes, like I prove hunt after hunt…ITS NOT WORTH THE SQUEEZE. If any squeeze at all! 🍻🇺🇸
BCA upper on a home built lower. About $350. Never cleaned. Oiled ONCE since the build. Thousands of rounds. No failures. Darn accurate (which is more dependent on me than the equipment, but still). What am I missing? What - specifically - am I NOT getting from this firearm that I would get if I had $1,650 less to spend on ammo?
I have a lot of ARs. From the cheapo PSA, to expensive DDs and Larues. Base parts are similar, with some even having the same damn part markings. You are buying base guns no matter the name, and paying for polish. The more polish, the more expensive the gun. People can split hairs all they want. At the end of the day, they are all just about equal guns with the add ons being the expense.
I build every AR as if I was going to war. I know I never will and hope I never have to use it that way but I want them all to have that kind of quality.
S&W basic rifles are basically milspec quality. I still use parts I used in combat on my M4 and M16s at home on my $600 ARs and they are as good as anything I had in the military.
As a pro tradesman, i myself have some harbor freight hand tools that have lasted 1000+ days of professional all-day everyday use and are as good as top brands but at like 30% cost
I have a PSA /Anderson build i have had for 8 years. Working on a DDM4a1 socom upper i got from Brownells. Using a Aero lower. My PSA /Anderson has had 0 problems and is by my bedside. And is my camping gun. These days you can build a good AR for around 1200.
You can buy the components used in some expensive ARs and putting together for a lot cheaper. I was able to shop around and buy all the components for a mid-tier rifle and build it for $600 less than buying it
20% tax on complete rifles means you can also save a few hundred just by buying the inexpensive, 20% taxed lower receiver separate from the expensive upper receiver...
For $600? Doubt it. Either you start naming names of the specific parts you purchased, manufacturers, websites, and video evidence of the receipts or it didn't happen.
@@Enjoyer.762 I've saved much more than $600 on a single gun. Also went over budget by more than $600 on my latest gun. Makes absolutely no difference either way. Give it 20 years and $600 won't buy ya a roll pin.
A cheap gun is far better than no gun! A lot folks can't afford firearms when they have other hobbies, like motorcycles, golfing, fishing, etc. I have a budget build (Aero lower and Builders Grd Upper) and Mid-tier build (FM-15). Love them both, shot below 500 rounds on them. My lifesaver is my HK VPN9 and GP Stribog as a backpack gun. I'm going to add a Grid Industries Upper to the mix in the summer. Practice, Take scenario courses, read up on the right optics and CLEAN YOUR GUNS!
To be honest the hard truth is most people...and I mean the average person...doesn't shoot enough for longevity to be a major issue. If you go out with your friends and shoot a few times a year...maybe shooting a few hundred rounds then an inexpensive rifle...if well taken care of...will probably be fine. If you plan to train regularly and compete in matches then a more expensive rifle is a much better option. Buy what you can afford and if shooting is something you really get into you can always upgrade later.
From my experience Matco tools was the top of the line tool company, even over Snap-on tools. Which I owned both brands, and the Matco always gave me less problems.
Still use "Western Auto" tools! Also have a good deal of "Sears tools". Harbor Freight have good HAND TOOLS, however be choosy about the electric tools.
I agree. That’s the beauty of the AR platform. I purchased a PSA and started learning from there. You can eventually upgrade parts at a time when it works with your budget. I still have the lower but upgraded the complete upper, BCM bcg, Radian charging handle, Geissele trigger, etc. That’s why they call it a grown mans Barbie doll. 😂
I've had two lugs on my BCA 7.62 x39 break after 1500 rds both times they can't take rapid fire to well or not for very long. I shoot a lot and I found I have to replace parts.
I recently looked into how much the US Army / DOD spent on each M16A2 while I was in the service. it was in the ballpark of $400-500. And I'm not someone who's never been in a combat zone.. I carried that rifle in Afghanistan for a year. That rifle was basically my wife for a little more than 365 days. I slept with it. I showered with it. I ate with it. It was never more than one step and one arm's reach away. Heck I literally cuddled it with the sling wrapped around my arm in a way that it would be impossible for anyone to remove that rifle from my person while I was sleeping (something I came up with at Ft Benning BCT when drills went into our tents while they knew we were sleeping to try to take our rifles). If I could have exactly that rifle.. here on the outside (of the military).. even if the fun switch (3 rd burst) weren't there.. and even with the long delta ring handguard that has zero rails on it.. I absolutely would. Rifles in the ballpark of, especially, 1500-3000 bucks - are gucci guns. There are companies out there that are using the CORRECT aluminums, doing things RIGHT, and not expecting an arm, leg, or arm and leg - as payment.
The thing is the army is buying rifles in lots of tens of thousands. So they have big contracts that the lowest bidder gets; FN I believe has the current M4A1 contract. The "same" rifle the military gets, costs like $1500 from FN. Smaller companies especially have to charge more since they have smaller production lines and thus larger costs.
@@spookyindeed If I take a bolt, spray paint it gold, or slap a logo on it - does it really make that cheap bolt expensive? Or's it just morons spending waaaaay more to buy something than it cost to make it. There's many smaller companies that don't spend the millions and millions on advertising and other things that big companies like FN, HK, etc etc etc do.
I also disagree. PSA makes and sells an excellent AR, inexpensively, especially if you assemble the lower yourself. Spend the extra $550 that a Gucchi-AR costs by buying a case of 5.56 and shoot it one cartridge at a time TRAINING (not making just noise.)
Trash (Hi-Point) < Affordable (Springfield) < Premium (Kimber) The difference between trash and premium are massive, but between affordable and premium is usually not worth the extra cost. I always stick with affordable (Springfield, Ruger, Mossberg, Glock, etc.)
Aero precision 7075 bare upper lower with your own choice of a decent quality barrel, gas block and tube, a lpk and bcg and charging handle of your choice can sometimes be basically a dd or other high end brand in terms of quality of material and concentricity of barrel etc and come out cheaper. Some assembly required however not too much
I think with the current political environment that is promising to ban ARs and mags, you would be best served by purchasing Items with a high-reliability and quality history. That being said if you cant or dont think you have the time to save up for the higher end platform then get what you can while you can, because at the end of the day a plane jane budget beater is better than a sharp stick.
"Brownells. You can buy better but you can't pay more." LOL JK guys. However, as an old dude, "Lifetime Warranty" is not as important as it once was. I'll never wear out anything I currently own. Welcome to Iowa Caleb. I live about an hour from Grinnell. Visiting the Brownells showroom is high on my list of winter pass times.
Very interesting! I wonder if anyone else would be interested In more detail regarding the why? For example, you touched upon the buffer tube being made of cheaper material by some manufacturers, which is eye opening. I always see the grade of aluminum posted for upper and lower receivers, sometimes handguard, but never buffer tubes. Also, you briefly touched on finishes, which seem to be a huge difference between manufacturers, even when their receivers come from the same forge! More. More. More. 😆
Also some have different designs like Ed where the upper and handgaurr bolt together, or lmt that’s monolithic. Knights with its e3.2 bolt and barrel. Many manufactures have their own secret sauce.
I’ve watched and enjoyed many of your videos. As a person who has lived all of his nearly 7 decades in LA, I can’t imagine living year-round in Idaho. Caleb, I didn’t know that that you were from LA, in spite of having watched many Smythbusters episodes. I hope that they pay you well at Brownells; the Idaho winter warrants hazardous duty pay. I’m sure that the Idaho folks are great to know and the other half of the year is delightful. Your episodes, Larry P. and Wilson are some of my favorites. If I can’t buy it from any of y’all 3, I don’t want it. Keep up the great work.
Thanks for doing this video. I'm a type 7 FFL/SOT, and we specialize in defensive firearms, including AR's. We sell them, and do a lot of custom builds and have our own line of lower receivers. We talk with folks all the time that are convinced that "_ _ _" stuff is just as good as much more expensive options. Someone even told us "I saw a video, and they use the same brand of CNC machines as "X". We often tell people, that like many things, there are products that punch above their weight class and are a very good value. Generally, though, you are going to get what you pay for. Customer service is another consideration, some of the most well-known "three initial" places have notoriously bad customer service. It is our belief that if a firearm is purchased for potential use in a defensive situation, get the best you can afford, and that you can shoot well and rely on. As you pointed out very well in the video, it is a piece of safety equipment. Imagine having to jump out of an airplane and rely on a parachute you bought at the discount place because you thought you would probably never need it anyway.
This brings back memories. I recall this type of mentality of more expensive means less quality prior to the 80s. In reality the more that something is manufactured the quality keep going up, because a company will learn from their mistakes (if they want to stay in business and care for their customers). Think of the old beepers that were super inexpensive and lasted for years. A product can be designed to be both quality built and easy to afford. You speak in generalities instead of backing up your comments with data. If you take into account that the barrel is the most likely item on an AR to wear out (assumption on my part), then I would be more impressed if you showed us which barrel types will last the longest and maintain accuracy. In regards to cars you are woefully ignorant. A Toyota Corolla will outlast a Rolls Royce and it's downstream cost of ownership will be a lot less. Please note that you are not alone, as the vast majority of the firearm industry is clueless what quality is and who William Edwards Deming is. You should look him up since he was born in Iowa. Mic Drop!
theres a guy thst recently post a video on youtube and while shooting his exspensive ar it blew up think it was a POF P415 those are $2,000. guess that one was missed in the quality control department . if you can afford exspensive guns buy them if you cant buy the best quality lower buget gun you can afford. its better to have one and not need it than need one and not have one..
All manufacturers these days use CNC machines which allows them to program the tolerances in and press the button to start the milling process. They are literally all the same exact thing after that process. The only difference that can exist is in cost of raw materials to start with and the amount of QC at the end of the process for all intents and purposes, they are the exact same thing whether you’re paying $3000 or less than $1000. Companies like Brownell’s have a direct conflict of interest when it comes to this topic so of course they’re going to tell you that there is a major difference between one rifle and the other because they would like to sell you a bunch of expensive stuff.
ive never seen a $350 AR maybe $550 is a more reasonable figure $80 Anderson lower $300 complete upper with BCG $35 lower spring and trigger group $50 adjustable butt stock $10 magazine $45 carry handle --------------------------------- $520 is the total
I bought a $500 PSA kit but since then I've replaced a good amount of components, trigger, stock, grip, sights, safety, bolt release, charging handle, etc. There's not much left on mine from the original kit besides the barrel, BCG and receivers. It's now a $1200 rifle. So, I wonder how it would compare to Steve's $1000 rifle at this point. Those kits are just a starting point.
@@kxkxkxkx His is still not in the same league as a Geissele uty grade rifle. They may be expensive but they are also very high quality and well above average. The free float handguard, BCG and barrel are all much better than the PSA and I like PSA, I'm not hating on them at all.
@Colton Owens this may be a goofy question, but is there any way to find out actual longevity on these parts?? I wonder if anyone has tested ballistic advantage against FN barrels, let's say? Is the expected life of rhe rifle 5k rounds? 20k? Then I'd be interested to see how many people actually "shoot out" an ar in a lifetime, and what part gives up first.... Ok. Down the rabbit hole I go. 😆
The question being would you trust your life to your rifle...that depends on how long and hard you want to fight... Home defense vs national defense... but something is better than nothing when you need it.
I think the big thing with building a cheaper AR that is "just as good if not better" is that you can take a long time to do it. Over that long time you tend to forget just how much each one of those parts cost.
Also, you can look for deals. It was my plan to take my time, but the soviet people's republic of the west coast forced my hand. Maxed out credit, owe everyone I know, paid almost $1250; but all my recipes show dates prior to Inslee signing 1240 later this week
That's what I did I spent almost two years just buying higher end parts that were on sale. I never spent more than maybe $400 at a time and usually less. I ended up with a high-end but didn't really feel the pain.
I only know my experiences but i have to chime in. My very own first ar-15 was a century arms, paid 600$ at gander mountain around 2007-2008ish. It was literally the only one on the shelf. It did not run right out of the box. It was essentially an akwardly designed single shot as the bolt would kick back far enough to eject the spent casing, but not far enough to grab the back of the next round out of the magazine. Causing the bolt to go into battery empty for the second shot. The “gun smith “ at gander mountain was as useful as a screen door in a submarine and informed me that my new rifle chambered for remington 223, would only function with federal 223. I found the problem myself, that was the hold bored in the back of the bolt carrier the tail of the bolt sticks through was bored .055 larger than my dads colt. Only took me a year to find a replacement for it being ar-15s we’re flying off the shelves. I eventually got it fixed and had no further issues. That being said i will not buy another century arms anything ever. The 3 psa ones i have since gotten my wife and I have worked absolutely fine for our needs. Another one to note granted not ar related, taurus. I have some higher end 22’s. The most reliable one I own now tho is a 280$ Taurus tx22. God knows everything Taurus has ever made has not ended in the same results, but as for me i find it funny that a 280$ taurus 22 pistols comes with more features, shoots better, and is dead nuts more reliable than my 500$ ruger 22/45
I have a few cheaper ARs that are fun to play with. Pricing Anywhere from 600 - 1200. The one I’m currently trying to finish up will be in the mid 3k area when it’s complete. No Gucci parts. Just quality components. Never thought I’d spend that much on a rifle which isn’t even that high compared to many others out there. But I can definitely tell the difference in quality from my other rifles.
It very much depends on what you consider “just as good”, will a PSA blem special (I have many) run just as reliably and shoot as accurately as a DDM4? Probably. Will the DD be lighter? feel better? shoot smoother? Yeah it probably will. Will it last longer? Maybe but will it outlast it 4:1…no
This is the comment you asked for. Feel free to straighten me out. A few years ago I began building an AR. I found out that the Anderson lower wasn't as pretty as the BCM, DD, etc. but that material-wise, it was just as good. Only a few forging companies out there you know. Same deal with the upper, but that was an Aero. The barrel was a government contract over-run (FN that is CHF and chrome lined.) The bolt was a Toolcraft 158 Carenter steel sold by a company with their own nickel boron BCG. I did pay full retail for the B5 stock as shown in your video and I put a Smith Vortex flash hider on the weapon. The rail and sights were made by Troy and the pistol grip was Fab Defense. The trigger group had a teflon finish. A machinist dimpled the barrel and put a gas block on it and he taught me how to put on the gas tube (which was melonited BTW) and also he taught me how to headspace the bolt. The balance of the parts were mil spec or better and when I ran into problems or had questions, the tech dept. at Brownells was willing to offer their expertise. Over half of all the parts came from Brownells. It grouped within 3/8 ths of an inch of what a BCM costing 2 grand did (best group was 1.55 inches at 100 yards.) It's pretty much held it's accuracy for just over 10,000 rounds. Total cost to build came in at 1260 dollars (got a lot of stuff when it went on sale.) If I had spent the other $700 for a BCM, DD, etc. what would I get (except good resale value?) What are your criticisms relating to what I did?
I've been running my palmetto state armory ar-15 for a long time Multiple rifle classes including valor ridge. It does the job just fine I am okay with combat accurate plus if anything breaks it's cheap enough to replace 🙂
Agree! Going to Valor Ridge 10/2023...Rifleman 1 Class...very much looking forward to it. I was debating on taking my BCM or PSA premium upper(FN Barrel)...Likely will take the PSA set up. Thanks for the assurance.
I bought a magpul kitted SW M&P2 AR/Sig romeo5 optic for my wife so she could join me for a fighting rifle class. Stripped..Greased..Ran 720 rounds no issues.
I've spent my life in the automotive industry. And the GM products the last 15 years, that you pay $70,000 or more from, are complete garbage. That being said, there are quality cheap AR's
I just dipped my toes into the AR world for the first time a few weeks ago. I've had some experience with S&W M&P rifles owned by friends and they're fantastic rifles. I have also personally visited the Palmetto State Armory headquarters/factory in Columbia, SC while on duty a few years ago. When it came time to make my purchase, there was no way I could afford a Daniel Defense, Colt, SIG, or Savage Arms AR. I went with a PSA AR with free-float barrel, a Sig Romeo 5 red dot, Magpul MBUS backup sights, and Magpul furniture all the way around. The build quality is outstanding for a $600 rifle. I know the build quality is great because I've seen them being built, at their factory, and their commitment to providing excellent guns at affordable prices is evident in my rifle. I'm extremely pleased with my purchase.
I cannot speak to every inexpensive AR, nor every expensive one, but I do own two high end AR's ($2,000+) and about 4 "cheap" AR's ($800 or less). And have many thousands of rounds through them all and not one has ever failed dramatically. And the failures that occur are almost always mag or ammo related. And inside of 200 yards, all of them have perfectly acceptable accuracy. I think we live in a golden age at the moment when even the cheap AR's are pretty darn good. So I just don't think buying expensive is really needed.
And the beautiful thing about ARs, in particular, is that even if you buy a cheap AR, you can upgrade the components that matter. The barrel, the BCG, the charging handle, all of it can be upgraded to high-end parts that make your otherwise cheap AR into a high-FUNCTIONING machine.
I agree 100%.
My first AR was from Bushmaster. Did everything I asked of it. My current AR cost over $4K. Functionally the same, but the details are much more refined, it has a tighter grouping with match grade ammo when the barrel is hot, and the scope is vastly better. To appreciate a high end gun, you really need to understand that particular type of gun well. For most good folks, a low priced AR will be just fine. Way better to have an inexpensive AR than none at all, IMO.
My cheap ar15 was $400 😅
I have a first gen M&P sport with 5r rifling and its very accurate. I do like my dd better though
There’s cheap and garbage, super high end, and affordable and well made. The middle ground is normally where the value is.
absolutely right
@@SoloRenegade a friend of mine says you always pay double for that last ten percent of quality
@@davidgreen5099 but that last ten percent of quality is performance potential the average shooter can't make use of.
and depending upon the nature of the "quality", it might actually mean it's not a durable SHTF rifle, and instead a range queen.
Also, the 10% improvement never ends. it's not as if their is a ceiling on that. They just keep making things 10% better over and over and over. each time costing more and more and more, but you get back less and less and less in return.
@@SoloRenegade i agree, i stay firmly in the middle as far as most things go and im usually not disappointed
@@davidgreen5099 I'm right there with you
As the proud owner of a 700 dollar AR 15, I'm glad I own one. Im not rich, but at least I'm prepared.
Got my AR-556 (Ruger) when they were going for $500 :)
@Baldspot actually, its a BRO Spec-15 A2. Its kind of a weird choice but it is what my gun store had in stock in my budget and I hopped on the opportunity. Its worked great for me whenever I go to the range so I guess thats all that really matters 🇺🇲
I’m sure your $700 AR is a blast & in my book that’s a fine rig.
I have an extreme budget AR just for fun & a have very expensive one for competition.
I have equal fun with both & would not sell either one.
2 different tools,
2 different jobs.
Excellent point!! Since you are prepared, your gun is worth way more than an expensive piece in the hands of an unprepared person. Kudos to you
I’m a mechanic in a factory. I have Snapon tools. I have harbor freight tools. Snapon is over rated and over priced. Harbor freight is mostly cheap but have stuff that works just fine. There is a TON of shit in the middle that’s great. Same thing goes with cars. Same shit goes with rifles.
Hey now! I've done a lot of automotive work with my Harbor Freight tools and they've held up perfectly over the years. Cheap doesn't always mean bad. If you think you're too good for cheaper products your attitude is the problem, not the products.
I used a Pittsburgh pro 300 piece set for 8 years straight 5 days a week 8 hrs a day. They do the job just fine. Just like a p.s.a with a fn barrel.
I've never broken a harbor freight socket
I have been turning a wrench for almost 30 years. While I will say some tools it doesn't matter much there is definitely a difference in some between the harbor freight type and the snap on type. To say otherwise is disingenuous at best.
His point is not that. His point was, "Let's say you carry your gun everyday. Why not get something built tougher. He didn't say Lancer or Hk plastic. He said Magpul plastic, there are levels to it. But almost always after a certain point you are paying for the brand name or a luxury item determination.
As a mechanic I learned cheap works sometimes but sometimes expensive is the move. Which is why my AR build is starting to be all over the place in expense lol
I have to disagree with a cheap car being as good as an expensive car being a myth. A cheap toyota is far better than a Benz.
But that has nothing to do with their quality but instead with what you value. You value a sturdy utility vehicle while others may value luxury more.
So true, and if cost a hell of a lot less to work on, look at shop hour cost at a Mercedes or BMW dealer, and parts cost.
@@mikecohen2400
Yep, also look at how often it'll need serviced compared to toyota.
Absolutely. Gucci cars are maintenance nightmares.
Toyotas are hardly cheap cars anymore. A new sequoia or 4Runner can easily go for over $50k
Let me be clear! This video is not about BCM, LMT, etc.. It's also NOT about PSA (Palmetto State Armory), I own/shoot several PSA products personally and think quite highly of them, they are another good reminder that inexpensive and cheap are two different things. In the words of the great Forrest Gump, "That's all I got to say about that".
I also own a few PSA items. All have had no issues. If you're regularly shooting out to 300yds+ and 20k rounds you may want a hammer forged barrel or the like however
I own multiple PSA products as well, they have had thousands of rounds through them. They have been in the rain, fallen off of 4 wheelers, all kinds of stuff. Still accurate, still reliable
Go watch Tim over at Military Arms Channel when he took a factory tour of PSA. PSA is definitely on the right track. I too own PSA and love it, I also own mid grade, and High end (Wilson Combat). I would be lying if I said there was no difference in fit and finish, but I am a lot harder on the PSA than I am on the $2300 WC..
I turned my nose up at PSA for a long time thinking it was the K-Mart of the gun world. Then a buddy bought one and I couldn’t find anything I didn’t like about it. I bought one in 6.5 grendel and I absolutely love it. Never a single problem with it, running in all conditions imaginable. Accuracy is on par with much more expensive rifles.
Honestly I have been vary surprised by the PSA items. Tolerances are not as good as a Daniel's Defense but as a starter, all the controls are in the same positions and basically function the same. Much of the added cost is for enhanced parts with additional features or better tolerances.
I am sure a gucchi AR is better than a lower end one, but the marginal benefit for the increased costs generally doesn't seem proportional in the least for some of the vendors.
The best choice is generally the middle ground manufacturer. Stuff like aero and kn some cases BCM or troy
Especially nowadays
As a range toy or home defense rifle that won’t take a serious beating, yes I totally agree. BUT for a SHTF rifle or a rifle u know will have to survive taking a beating, in that case u want to buy a top notch rifle.
Law of diminishing returns. $200 on a $400 ar makes a massive difference. $200 on a $2,000 ar doesn’t do much.
all too often the gucci gear is worse (not always). you're paying for the brand.
hot take, a lot of people (including me) don't shoot enough to know the difference between cheap vs expensive
True. I have shot just over 1K rounds from my PSA over the past two years. I know a guy that shoots 1k in a week 😮
There really isn't a significant difference in shooting quality, it boils down to manufacturing quality, tolerances, quality assurance and warranty.
Here's the thing, people will take these 'budget' rifles and drag them through hell, fire thousands of rounds with minimal problems, then turn around and say they will use and trust their 'high-end' rifle instead. One of these rifles is better than no rifle.
Thousands of rounds, eh?
Wrong. People will say they’ve put them through hell, drug them through the dirt, and have fired thousands of rounds through them… but in reality these people will maybe put a couple hundred rounds per year through them at the range and maybe a hunt or two. Dudes don’t shoot that much, generally speaking, nor do they really run them through adverse environments 🤷🏻♂️
Most people don't shoot that much.
I run 3 30s a month still nothing compared to government funding range time…
It's a bit like buying sports car when you drive through inner city traffic and not understanding why no one thinks you're cool
I thought you were going to get into actual whys, assembly, materials, design, fit, finish, etc, with an emphasis on spotting quality, junk and deals.
Note that they don't
Nope. Just a boomer, and millennial,Fudds telling you to stop being poor.
I've been building and shooting Anderson, Spikes and Aero uppers and lowers with Toolcraft BCG's for about ten years without a hitch. I buy bulk Hornady SP's and load buckets of ammo on a 550B Dillon, so I shoot the crap out of my AR's and they've not fallen apart...
Amen brother! The fact that most of the parts are sourced from the same exact manufacturers say a lot about "mil spec".
Fun Fact: PSA owns Toolcraft.
A gun not falling apart shouldn’t be your standard for a good gun lmao. That’s gotta be bare minimum
@@hambonesmithsonian8085 agree. Success is not the simple lack of failure.
Toolcraft BCGs - and I have bought their DLC - are very well made. I've also bought Next Level Armament with DLC; another well made. Aero is an excellent brand - I've bought stripped uppers and lowers, build parts (other than triggers), and floating handguards from them. 😀
A lot of people bought/buy these things out of fear and end up collecting dust in the closet. So any AR will work.
In my line of work I have two sets of tools. The snap-ons stay in the shop. Harbor Freight tools go in the field. Field tools are always being lost, and we've found Harbor Freight germination rates to be no worse than snap-ons. At a fraction of the cost. As was stated, the AR is a tool. Get two! 😉
Thanks for the vid.
Ah... so you have noticed that Snap-On will plow under just as well as no name cheap stuff. Must be a law of the universe.
-And- Snap-On with enough effort can be bent / broken also. It's still man made metal.
I do often use the cheaper stuff when the torch helps make that custom bent wrench for the one time use...
Everything has it's place.
How does people buying ARs out of fear and then storing them in their closets immediately mean "so any AR will work?"
Build 3 ...
@@johnqpublic2718 because anything can do the job of dust collection.
OK. So, I am an 07 FFL gunsmith and have been building rifles for quite some time now, as well as a retired LtCol of Marines who foisted many a low bidder weapon system for 24 years. There are in fact some low ball manufacturers out there, but the fact is, three manufacturers make most of the AR receivers on the market. Mil Spec being what it is, for an AR15 at least, there are minor differences in tolerance or specs for receivers. Mounting systems, materials etc make a huge difference, but I have seen PSA AR's outperform Daniels Defense and Geissele...depends on too many variables to make a straight up comparison. Torture tests routinely show that even the low end stuff will outlast most folks needs for an AR. I am only talking reputable manufacturers. Mount the chinesium crap at your own risk. Most folks don't use, or can't shoot enough to really ever stress most of the stuff out there. I build and sell Aero Precision the most. Best cost to performance for the brands I sell. I'd put one of their sourced rifles that I built against a DD or Geissele any day...
I think Aero's M4E1 recievers are some of the best on the market. More importantly, they look cool and we all know looking cool is the most important thing.
What have you seen out of fn ar15? I had bad luck out of two and won't buy another.. heard bad stuff about them from service men..
“tHerEs oNlY fIVe fOrgEs”
Well said...
Agree 100% ... Aero Precision for Life 😉👊🇺🇸
Some people spend around thousands dollars on an AR then treat the thing like a priceless piece of art, and not a tool, and some are afraid to use it because it's too expensive.🤷🏽♂️
If they can afford thousands of dollars for an AR then they should be able to afford spare parts and the tools to swap them out.
@@SushiArmageddon You would think so, but it's like people who have expensive cars and put cheap tires and wipers on them.✌🏽
@@marsoelflaco5722 I guess it is a phenomenon not restricted to firearms. People often fail to consider what it takes to maintain, well, just about everything.
I spent a good amount building mine and while I don't try to abuse it or torture test it, I also don't baby it and worry about if it gets a little scratch or banged around a little bit.
@@actionjksn Understood. If someone has an expensive power tool, use it. Use it as intended. When you're done, clean it off, and store it properly.✌🏽
The BCG and barrel is where you can't cut corners. Everything else as long as its milspec will be the right material with the right dimensions. Don't pay for the big name.
A good trigger too.
Big facts, I don't care what I am running it has a BCM BCG in it…
Microbest and AO Precision, two of the best OEMS for standard Milspec BGC's, can be had for under $100 bucks routinely, if you watch for sales. Then you have companies like Ballistic Advantage, Faxon, and Rosco, making quality barrels, that are readily available, and don't cost a fortune. There's a threshold you need to meet, but after that the diminishing returns are massive.
Exactly. It’s critical that the bolt, carrier and chamber are in spec or you will have reliability issues 100%.
Thank you!!! As a new gun owner I currently don't see myself spending over $800 for a rifle. BCA sells cold hammer forged barrels and has uppers with mid length gas systems. The two things Daniel Defense owners rave about the most. But you can get those things from budget companies. So, now I'm really confused as to why anyone would spend $2,500+ for any rifle.
When I got into guns, I learned quickly the same motto that applies to tattoos applies to guns: "good tattoos aren't cheap, and cheap tattoos aren't good." I will say, though, after getting deeper into guns, there is a bit of cost-benefit analysis research you gotta do because some cheaper manufactures are surprisingly good and some guns that are overpriced pieces of junk.
"I learned pretty quickly that this motto applies to guns, except as I got deeper into guns, I realized: not really."
@-Zer0Dark- lol yes and no. General rule yes.
cheap is not bad when it comes to guns. As you say, you have to do your research. But far too often you're paying for a guuchi brand and not quality.
What?
At home defense ranges, if it puts lead on target reliably, Gucci isn’t required. Mr. Smith and Mr. Wesson seem reliable enough.
Uh no. S&W ARs aren't that good quality. At minimum Bravo Company Manufacturing is what people should go with if they need a quality home defense AR15.
@@Enjoyer.762 How big is your house where you can't hit someone with an M&P 15
@@RCXDerp CHF barrel probably doesn't matter but going bang when you need it to does
@@Enjoyer.762ask Kyle about Smith and Wesson
@DragonsOfThunder You missed the point in this video where he mentions firearms longevity. Any budget brand can work for the first 1,000 rounds or less before the problems manifest and reliability problems occur as parts prematurely wear out or break. Kyle fired less than 10 rounds. Do you want to bet your life on less than 10 rounds or would you rather bet it on a rifle that can go thousands of rounds? I guess you just keep your budget AR in the closet and never train with it. How many defense carbine courses are taking per year? Do you consider plinking at beer bottles behind your double-wide "training"?
I carried a Smith & Wesson M&P 15 on Patrol. I paid just less than a $1000.00 and it has performed well and has not let me down.
Same, bought my M&P15 brand new for $800 (first one I owned), it was as good as what I was issued in the military. But I can build them from parts for cheaper, and still be equivalent quality.
I've seen those for sale without optics for $500, I know someone who bought one a few years ago for that. $1,000 seems like a lot for an M&P unless it comes with a really nice optic like an Aimpoint PRO or something.
We are phasing away from "just as good" to "good enough" 👍
I never say that my PSA rifle or Taurus pistols are just as good. But I do say that they're good enough for me.
@@brianfischer5609 perfect approach.
@@brianfischer5609 This is the point I make too. My Armalite Eagle AR15 is certainly good enough for me. Since I'm not going into combat or competition, its just fine.
I had a friend who wore a $5000 Rolex. I wore a $100 Seiko. They both told us the correct time whenever we needed to know what the time was. My Seiko lasted about 8 years.
I feel the same way about most guns. High prices are very often a function of higher profit margins. Guns that are just a little better are priced much higher because of brand name recognition. Spend your money as you see fit, but don't think a gun will do the job better just because you paid a lot more for it.
That's not really true. Typically, with higher end manufacturers like Daniel Defense and LMT, you're paying for them to retool their machines more often so they have more consistency in their design.
Additionally, when you start to get into areas like night vision lasers, only the high quality rail systems actually hold zero.
@@stevenpatti9460 And which of those rifles have actually been used in “combat”? Neither. The military has been running Colt’s for decades. A 6920 can be had for under a grand. That’s a battle-proven rifle, unlike both you just mentioned. Do you have any idea how many cops run a $600 M&P Sport II in the back of their cruisers too?
@@southernfried19 That's plain wrong. The navy seals and other SOCOM units having been using Daniel Defense systems like the DDM4 RIS 2 and MK-18 as well as LMT systems for over a decade. Do your research
whenever i buy ammo i buy the most expensive because that way i know it will perform way better than the cheaper ammo.
@@stevenpatti9460 Beat me to it. The worlds elite fighting forces are generally using higher end tools like Knights Armament, LMT, HK, Daniel Defense among others.
People get 'Good Enough' mixed up with 'As Good As', and they are NOT the same! My '08 Ford Escape is pushing 445k miles and still hums--IOW, while it's not 'As Good As' a lot of other vehicles, it's 'Good Enough' for me.
When I went AR shopping, I did stay away from makes I wasn't familiar with, but also the really high-end guns, and settled on an S&W Sport II and am totally satisfied. I run it quite a bit (and take care of it); if a part wears out, I will replace it with a better part.
Equality implies context. To say that two things are equal means also that in the context of identity the two things are not equal, else there would be one thing not two. Equality without a clear context is ambiguous.
My question is: How did you get an escape to last so long? You must have gotten the unicorn with manual transmission.
@@PBVader God's grace and regular oil changes, I suppose. It's a V-6 with automatic 4WD. To be honest, I did have to replace the read diff a few months ago, and the computer as well, but overall, it just keeps humming along--and it's PAID FOR!
@@petesheppard1709" paid for" is the best part. Keep her truckin and be easy on that auto. Had a friend blow his v6 at 140thou, junk yard replacement, and the trans lost second and reverse six months later. Of course he wasn't the mindful type.
‘Paid For’ are two of my most favorite words. 😉
PSA is one of those 3 letter companies that fit all budgets. I have one of their first premium M4 uppers that never had a single problem for thousands of rounds through it. Battle Field Vegas use PSA Premium 10.5/11.5 uppers/BCG and they say they have lasted as long and longer than higher name brand uppers/BCGs for F/A fire.
I own 4 PSA's , two AR 15's and two AR 10's and no problems.....
I have 2 PSA and they work great.
PSA lower with BCA uppers, both ARs run flawlessly.
@@Chill-mm4pn I run a couple of Poverty Pony aka Anderson lowers on a couple so I can feel like a wanna be cloner
I just had to take a psa upper apart and fix it cuz of canted sights but it's not a low quality issue just more of whoever put it together didn't do their job issue
For ar15s get a good barrel, optic/mount and trigger. the rest is just preference
BCG is right up there with your barrel. Badly fit parts cause gas system inefficiency, which means short strokes.
@@PXCharon but there are so many good affordable choices otu there.
There's another aspect to buying and building your own gun: Finding things on sale. Sure, I have a PS lower, but the insides are all CMMG that I got on sale, instead of $100 they were $60, got Magpul brand furniture too, all for a decent discount. If you know where to look and when to buy you can certainly build yourself a less expensive rifle that's durable.
Words of wisdom! It takes me a good whike to build an AR because Im patiently waiting for sales and deals. Might take 6 months to a year, but you get the high end parts you want/need for waaaaaaaay less! Just have to play the waiting game and go from end to end on the internet as well as local stores.
Mom was frugal to the point of wanting to go cheap.
Dad wasn't. I remember hearing him say "Always buy the best. It's usually the cheapest." Meaning that you wouldn't have to replace it as soon.
An ex GF said "Buy the best, you only cry once"
And sometimes you're just paying for a name
@@ChineseChicken1 yes the best is not always most popular
My wife was like that-- taught to buy "as cheap as possible, ALWAYS."
But now that I've introduced her to some "quality" pieces, here and there, the light has come on!💡 lol!
Always buy based on reviews & from different stores 💯
It isn't cold till it's below zero. Then once spring comes 31 feels so warm
You can absolutely skimp in certain places and some Gucci manufacturers way overcharge and create artificially low supply. Snap-On is a great example. Lots of tools of same quality for far less. KAC, Noveske and Hodge for example are just not worth it. I do agree that there is a risk in going low end.
And a lot of those tool manufacturers use the same sub contractors and suppliers as Snap On. Just like Gucci AR manufacturers.
@Nuclear Grizzly You're also paying for better QC / QA, where every rifle is QC checked, whereas budget brands only batch checks parts & firearms or in many cases perform no QC checks at all. "Gucci" brands statically have fewer defects and stand behind their warranty, whereas budget brands often brag about having "great customer service and a warranty" as a pathetic selling point when in reality they're shady in terms of honoring any warranty.
KAC build almost everything in House.. and that's why theirs a high demand and low supply.
As for the others I don't know.
@Dakkyz KAC uses priority designs with their E3 bolt and barrel extension, priority gas system, priority barrels, and priority rail systems. Because they're priority designs, it cost more than standard "mil spec".
@@Enjoyer.762 This is an important point. You may get lucky with less QC, but if you don't, you are stuck. Sometimes it is worth spending a bit more to know that you are paying for the manufacturer to have already weeded out the lemons.
I own a smith and Wesson M & P sport 2, which is considered a entry level AR… it’s an excellent rifle. perfectly accurate very reliable, thousands of rounds through it with no problems at all. I highly recommend it to all AR owners or soon to be owners…
Lol my ar is psa lower on sale 139 free shipping and bca upper on sale 212 free shipping plus 30 transfer fee 381 ur m&p is way to rich for me 🤣🤣
I was watching a combat video out of Ukraine and one of the Ukrainian soldiers was using a M&P15. If it can be trusted on the battlefield, it can be trusted at your home.
@@mikes8915 as long as it works when you need it to… who cares about cost. 👍you do yourself and family a favor just by owning one that functions.
@@mikes8915 buy a new BCG and charging handle before you shoot it.
@@qssneaky It's not exactly as if that particular Ukrainian soldier had a choice in weapon. They just get what they get and you don't really know how reliable it is or if he trusts that m&p 15. I have also seen a lot of Holosun red dots being used there but I am not prepared to say they are battlefield tested and approved.
Always love to see a new smith buster episode drop, y’all are great! 😎
I have had a S&W Sport AR and it has been flawless. I guess the days of 600.00 ARs are over. It has been real dependable and shoots 223 and 5.56 regularly. Not any problems. As far as a life saver, I would depend on it with my life. As far as reliability, I would put it up against any of the chinese and many American ARs made today.
you can still do it. best way to save money is build it yourself. S&W are equivalent to military issue for durability and reliability.
Not everyone can afford ar15 that cost 1500 or 2000 even parts
$1500 for a base AR is highway robbery. I can build almost 3 ARs for that, and using the mid range brands that give best value.
These guys are just snobby. Happens with all hobbyists. I get the same treatment about my "budget" swords over in that community. Snobs gonna snob. If it shoots stuff puts holes in it and keeps on doing it ...good enough for me.
@@SoloRenegade Are you planning on having only cheap iron sights on those cause, honestly on the interwebs you hear a lot of people say they use irons on ARs, yet ask 100 people at the range and ask them when is the last they used irons or saw others using it and it's small minority, so really is you shop around, buy blemished parts and wait on sales, you can obsoletely build 2 mid range ar15 have scope/red dot that don't suck or will break if you drop them. But 3, c'mon man, it's not 10 years ago. 750 is as low as you can go these days if you are willing to put in the time and effort to get the best deals around. For some people that's fine, no problem, they'll wait all year and look up prices to save 300-500 dollars on a AR that will last as long as they live more then likely. Others, value their time more, they got other things to do, so they go with a turn key solution. The fact is, that's most gun owners. A mid range from a well known and reliable brand in the US, it will cost 950-1250, for a AR from Springfield Armory, it bring a decent red dot, made in the US, labor isn't cheap. Or built it yourself and save 300-500 dollars if you want to be waiting all year for the best deals, the mark up isn't bad if you don't want to deal with that.
@@namenotfound8747 Yes, my $600 is easily possible, but does not include optics. Optics are not a requirement, not strictly part of the rifle, they are an option.
I served in the military and in combat with only iron sights on my M16 before, and we could hit 300+yds all day long.
I never run a firearm without irons, ever. Batteries die, glass breaks, etc. and in a SHTF scenario there won't be batteries just lying around.
"But 3, c'mon man, it's not 10 years ago. 750 is as low as you can go these days if you are willing to put in the time and effort to get the best deals around. " not true at all. If I can build 1 for under $600, that puts you in teh $1500 to $1800 range for 3 ARs. And if you actually read and comprehended what I said, you'd notice I said "ALMOST 3". Go ahead and reread my comment and let the meaning of "almost" sink in a bit and realize what I said. And nor am I talking about prices from 10yrs ago, I'm talking current pricing I've been able to get. Just have to be smarter about what you buy, when you buy it, etc.
I've never spent more than $800 on an AR yet.
@@SoloRenegade When I was the Corps as a 0311 when shit did hit the fan, we didn't always had enough water, we didn't always have enough MREs, but we always had batteries and enough ammo and we still had irons. Before every patrol and we did foot patrols non of the pogshit, during pcc and pcis batteries were checked and replaced, we had 100,000 batteries sent to us per month from higher, unless Marines were dying and we were QRF and got woken up, batteries were changed everyday or if for whatever reason we were low, every 2 days standing order From BC himself. I was in the military before the Marine Corps had optics for all units as well, we still shot to 500m and even up to 700m, shooting passed 300m was a shitshow then and still is now, can it be done? Yes, but they didn't make LPVOs because Uncle Sam wanted to spend more. We took fire from RPKs heavy mortars and even Dshk. Seldom did we take fire from 300m with a AK or less unless it was in a town or city like Ramadi. This wasn't a well trained military we were fighting, it was just a few stubborn Hajis that didn't want to die. Most scopes these days don't need batteries to work, and I've seen Nightforce, Trijcon, and other types of scopes literally fall off down mountains, cliffs, 50+ ft once and the M203 broke before the ACOG did. It's not pre 911, we have stuff that doesn't suck. I got to do be a scout swimmer, we swim in open ocean, rain or shine. ACOG didn't die but the rear post of the iron sight rusted and eventually broke off, Irons sights like with all gear meant for war will brake, I seen SAWs, m16, m4 m110, javelins, stringer missiles all fail eventually. I'm not worried. Just need to adapt.
My nephew has so many add-ons that i would not want to carry it. combat vet desert storm here. I say keep it light and keep it simple.
I would say the bottom end of good enough would be a basic PSA or SW MP15. Nothing fancy but get's the job done.
That old man is tired of your shit, but he never gets tired of telling you about it in an indirect and polite way 🤣
Buy a good barrel, bcg and trigger. Put it in an anderson upper and lower and k promise it runs just as good as a Daniel Defense. Don’t @ me. I said what I said.
As long as it holds up like a well-used and worn out Basic Training M16A2 rifle, it's good enough. Those things were bare metal in places, rattled, had air gaps between the receivers, abused barrels, and we were still hitting 300+yrds with them using iron sights.
As a mechanic myself I can tell you Harbor Freight makes great tools for the job.
Idk guys, the bear creek stuff seems pretty good. 8000k rounds per year no issue
Im waiting for someone to quantify the difference between two in spec AR lowers, made from the same material but one is on a DD rifle and the other is say An Aero Precision M4E1 lower. One is considered grail and the other is considered mediocre at best. Tell me, OBJECTIVELY, how this is so?
I think it is a mistake to label the Aero lower mediocre at best.
@@alanmeyers3957 exactly, aero is definitely quality. Personally as far as lowers go, as long as they are up to spec your good. Aero lowers = top notch. The dude who owns thunder ranch built his rifle with all aero components and he definitely wouldn't put his name on bs products.
@@alanmeyers3957 Believe me, I dont. But some groups call it "Poors" parts
I have several budget rifle builds and no problems yet. And on the cheap tool comment, I've got cheap tools that I bought 30yrs ago that I still use today.
I think my builds will stand up to the "gucci guns" because i use quality parts 🤷🏾♂️
The real question is when is more money getting you more reliable/accurate/durable and on, and when is the “expensive “ stuff just overpriced hype?
I have built a number of rifles from PSA over the years on Anderson lowers and they were all perfect IME. They ran flawlessly. This past year I changed things up and went with an Aero Precision kit. Extremely pleased with that too. Of course, I'm the guy who bought an Olympic "Plinker Plus" 20 years ago as my first AR15. Best bad ass name ever! LOL That thing was hitting way above it's weight class! An absolute bullseye taker and it ran flawlessly. Was sorry after I traded it off to my dealer. I have yet to have had a bad AR15 honestly. They have all been more reliable than the Vietnam era M16's I used for training aboard my submarine in the Navy years ago. Those often couldn't get thru a mag without a stoppage.
Interesting, so the Vietnam era M16's didn't really have a ammo powder issue after all?
Yes, was in the Navy back in the 90’s. Every M-16 I touched seemed to be a POS. And from what I understand, they were all made by Colt. And by the way…..just because it says Mil Spec, it doesn’t mean quality. Back in the day, it definitely meant “built by lowest bidder”. Hell our space shuttles we’re probably built to “mil-spec”. I agree with a lot of guys on here. Build what you can afford and use/train with it. Don’t baby these guns. They were meant to be dropped and thrown and have the crap shot out of them. If you are worried about reliability, spend a little extra on the BCG and the barrel. You can upgrade furniture later, especially after a few boo boos while training.
@@jamesdouglas815 so mil-spec is like "military grade"?
Everything you wrote is spot on. I was in an AFRES unit during the first sandbox conflict and we had "M-16's" that were not even A1's. They didn't even have bolt assists. The only thing I liked about them was the full-auto selector switch, but the pencil barrel heated up FAST. Aside from the name "Colt" stamped on the receivers, just about everything in any PSA is superior to those. I vividly remember the sound of the buffer spring after each round, like a spring sound effect in a cartoon. They also could not handle the chamber pressures of modern NATO ammo designed for the A2, so they were completely phased out in the late 90's.
All my 80% lower built rifles shoot 1” or less. 5.56 16”, 300blk 10”, .308 20”. All built for $450-700. Then added $100 3.5lb triggers to all. So yes, like I prove hunt after hunt…ITS NOT WORTH THE SQUEEZE. If any squeeze at all! 🍻🇺🇸
Project Farm is the guy to tell if their is a difference!
I want to PF do an AR15 review. LOL He'll do it right!
"Which AR is better, let's find out."
Best, most informative and unbiased UA-cam channel out there!
🎉👌👍😮 YESSSSSS!!!!!!
BCA upper on a home built lower. About $350. Never cleaned. Oiled ONCE since the build. Thousands of rounds. No failures. Darn accurate (which is more dependent on me than the equipment, but still).
What am I missing?
What - specifically - am I NOT getting from this firearm that I would get if I had $1,650 less to spend on ammo?
I have a lot of ARs. From the cheapo PSA, to expensive DDs and Larues. Base parts are similar, with some even having the same damn part markings. You are buying base guns no matter the name, and paying for polish. The more polish, the more expensive the gun.
People can split hairs all they want. At the end of the day, they are all just about equal guns with the add ons being the expense.
I build every AR as if I was going to war. I know I never will and hope I never have to use it that way but I want them all to have that kind of quality.
Outstanding!
S&W basic rifles are basically milspec quality. I still use parts I used in combat on my M4 and M16s at home on my $600 ARs and they are as good as anything I had in the military.
Absolutely zero problems with the two Toolcraft bcg's I have after thousands of rounds.
As a pro tradesman, i myself have some harbor freight hand tools that have lasted 1000+ days of professional all-day everyday use and are as good as top brands but at like 30% cost
Quality mostly comes down to Material quality and proven needed machining tolerances .
I have a PSA /Anderson build i have had for 8 years. Working on a DDM4a1 socom upper i got from Brownells. Using a Aero lower. My PSA /Anderson has had 0 problems and is by my bedside. And is my camping gun. These days you can build a good AR for around 1200.
You can buy the components used in some expensive ARs and putting together for a lot cheaper. I was able to shop around and buy all the components for a mid-tier rifle and build it for $600 less than buying it
20% tax on complete rifles means you can also save a few hundred just by buying the inexpensive, 20% taxed lower receiver separate from the expensive upper receiver...
Riiiight.
For $600? Doubt it. Either you start naming names of the specific parts you purchased, manufacturers, websites, and video evidence of the receipts or it didn't happen.
@@Enjoyer.762 I've saved much more than $600 on a single gun. Also went over budget by more than $600 on my latest gun.
Makes absolutely no difference either way. Give it 20 years and $600 won't buy ya a roll pin.
$600 will NOT get you into mid tier category unless someone is getting fucked.
A cheap gun is far better than no gun! A lot folks can't afford firearms when they have other hobbies, like motorcycles, golfing, fishing, etc. I have a budget build (Aero lower and Builders Grd Upper) and Mid-tier build (FM-15). Love them both, shot below 500 rounds on them. My lifesaver is my HK VPN9 and GP Stribog as a backpack gun. I'm going to add a Grid Industries Upper to the mix in the summer. Practice, Take scenario courses, read up on the right optics and CLEAN YOUR GUNS!
Info in the past has suggested that a LOT of AR parts, whether cheap, or expensive were made by a few (the same) manufacturers. What say you ?
I would say false, this sums it up- ua-cam.com/video/YpwDF3ft1OM/v-deo.html
I've owned ARs from 500 up to 1800. The expensive ones are better, for someone who has real needs. The cheap ones work just fine for most other people
If everything is in spec, including materials, I don't see how a cheaper gun couldn't be as reliable as a more expensive one.
To be honest the hard truth is most people...and I mean the average person...doesn't shoot enough for longevity to be a major issue. If you go out with your friends and shoot a few times a year...maybe shooting a few hundred rounds then an inexpensive rifle...if well taken care of...will probably be fine. If you plan to train regularly and compete in matches then a more expensive rifle is a much better option. Buy what you can afford and if shooting is something you really get into you can always upgrade later.
From my experience Matco tools was the top of the line tool company, even over Snap-on tools. Which I owned both brands, and the Matco always gave me less problems.
Still use "Western Auto" tools! Also have a good deal of "Sears tools". Harbor Freight have good HAND TOOLS, however be choosy about the electric tools.
@@johnq.public5911 agreed, not everything they sell is perfect but basic hand tools and corded tools are decent.
Yes, in fact I use PLENTY of tools from Harbor Freight. I don't destroy them either, and I use them all the time, hours on end.
I agree. That’s the beauty of the AR platform. I purchased a PSA and started learning from there. You can eventually upgrade parts at a time when it works with your budget. I still have the lower but upgraded the complete upper, BCM bcg, Radian charging handle, Geissele trigger, etc. That’s why they call it a grown mans Barbie doll. 😂
It has also been said that AR's are like LEGOs for adults.
Grown mans barbie? Never heard that must be rainbow militia 🤣🤣
@@mikes8915 It called Meal Team Six. LOL
I've had two lugs on my BCA 7.62 x39 break after 1500 rds both times they can't take rapid fire to well or not for very long. I shoot a lot and I found I have to replace parts.
If someone doesn't start adding slurping sound effects, I'll have to do it myself...
Get good stuff but a $500 AR15 paired with a $500 optic is way smarter than an $1000 rifle and only iron sights.
I recently looked into how much the US Army / DOD spent on each M16A2 while I was in the service.
it was in the ballpark of $400-500.
And I'm not someone who's never been in a combat zone.. I carried that rifle in Afghanistan for a year. That rifle was basically my wife for a little more than 365 days. I slept with it. I showered with it. I ate with it. It was never more than one step and one arm's reach away. Heck I literally cuddled it with the sling wrapped around my arm in a way that it would be impossible for anyone to remove that rifle from my person while I was sleeping (something I came up with at Ft Benning BCT when drills went into our tents while they knew we were sleeping to try to take our rifles).
If I could have exactly that rifle.. here on the outside (of the military).. even if the fun switch (3 rd burst) weren't there.. and even with the long delta ring handguard that has zero rails on it.. I absolutely would.
Rifles in the ballpark of, especially, 1500-3000 bucks - are gucci guns.
There are companies out there that are using the CORRECT aluminums, doing things RIGHT, and not expecting an arm, leg, or arm and leg - as payment.
The thing is the army is buying rifles in lots of tens of thousands. So they have big contracts that the lowest bidder gets; FN I believe has the current M4A1 contract. The "same" rifle the military gets, costs like $1500 from FN. Smaller companies especially have to charge more since they have smaller production lines and thus larger costs.
Literally nothing is stopping you from getting or building an a2 clone just as you described
@@spookyindeed If I take a bolt, spray paint it gold, or slap a logo on it - does it really make that cheap bolt expensive? Or's it just morons spending waaaaay more to buy something than it cost to make it.
There's many smaller companies that don't spend the millions and millions on advertising and other things that big companies like FN, HK, etc etc etc do.
@@abolishtheatfandrepealthenfa I do believe I said "if I could have exactly that rifle". Is a clone "exactly that rifle"?
@@robertf6523 semantics
I also disagree. PSA makes and sells an excellent AR, inexpensively, especially if you assemble the lower yourself. Spend the extra $550 that a Gucchi-AR costs by buying a case of 5.56 and shoot it one cartridge at a time TRAINING (not making just noise.)
I have a Smyth question: Can you just use bore snakes, or do you really need cleaning rods and patches?
Trash (Hi-Point) < Affordable (Springfield) < Premium (Kimber)
The difference between trash and premium are massive, but between affordable and premium is usually not worth the extra cost. I always stick with affordable (Springfield, Ruger, Mossberg, Glock, etc.)
On the other hand, the tool you have is better than the one you don't.
Aero precision 7075 bare upper lower with your own choice of a decent quality barrel, gas block and tube, a lpk and bcg and charging handle of your choice can sometimes be basically a dd or other high end brand in terms of quality of material and concentricity of barrel etc and come out cheaper. Some assembly required however not too much
That's why you look at the specs of what you're buying. Get quality parts made from quality material and it doesn't matter what name is stamped on it.
"Nice things cost money". And apparently "I" was the sole reason we couldn't have 'nice things' when I was growing up. LOL
I think with the current political environment that is promising to ban ARs and mags, you would be best served by purchasing Items with a high-reliability and quality history. That being said if you cant or dont think you have the time to save up for the higher end platform then get what you can while you can, because at the end of the day a plane jane budget beater is better than a sharp stick.
"Brownells. You can buy better but you can't pay more." LOL JK guys. However, as an old dude, "Lifetime Warranty" is not as important as it once was. I'll never wear out anything I currently own. Welcome to Iowa Caleb. I live about an hour from Grinnell. Visiting the Brownells showroom is high on my list of winter pass times.
Very interesting! I wonder if anyone else would be interested In more detail regarding the why? For example, you touched upon the buffer tube being made of cheaper material by some manufacturers, which is eye opening. I always see the grade of aluminum posted for upper and lower receivers, sometimes handguard, but never buffer tubes. Also, you briefly touched on finishes, which seem to be a huge difference between manufacturers, even when their receivers come from the same forge!
More. More. More. 😆
Also some have different designs like Ed where the upper and handgaurr bolt together, or lmt that’s monolithic. Knights with its e3.2 bolt and barrel. Many manufactures have their own secret sauce.
I’ve watched and enjoyed many of your videos. As a person who has lived all of his nearly 7 decades in LA, I can’t imagine living year-round in Idaho. Caleb, I didn’t know that that you were from LA, in spite of having watched many Smythbusters episodes. I hope that they pay you well at Brownells; the Idaho winter warrants hazardous duty pay. I’m sure that the Idaho folks are great to know and the other half of the year is delightful. Your episodes, Larry P. and Wilson are some of my favorites. If I can’t buy it from any of y’all 3, I don’t want it. Keep up the great work.
Iowa btw, not Idaho
The vast amount of butt hurt y’all just caused is fantastic!!! 😂🤣😂🤣
They have a talent for pushing buttons, don't they?
A lot of cheapskate gun owners are emotionally invested in garbage rods.
Thanks for doing this video. I'm a type 7 FFL/SOT, and we specialize in defensive firearms, including AR's. We sell them, and do a lot of custom builds and have our own line of lower receivers. We talk with folks all the time that are convinced that "_ _ _" stuff is just as good as much more expensive options. Someone even told us "I saw a video, and they use the same brand of CNC machines as "X". We often tell people, that like many things, there are products that punch above their weight class and are a very good value. Generally, though, you are going to get what you pay for. Customer service is another consideration, some of the most well-known "three initial" places have notoriously bad customer service. It is our belief that if a firearm is purchased for potential use in a defensive situation, get the best you can afford, and that you can shoot well and rely on. As you pointed out very well in the video, it is a piece of safety equipment. Imagine having to jump out of an airplane and rely on a parachute you bought at the discount place because you thought you would probably never need it anyway.
This brings back memories. I recall this type of mentality of more expensive means less quality prior to the 80s. In reality the more that something is manufactured the quality keep going up, because a company will learn from their mistakes (if they want to stay in business and care for their customers). Think of the old beepers that were super inexpensive and lasted for years. A product can be designed to be both quality built and easy to afford. You speak in generalities instead of backing up your comments with data. If you take into account that the barrel is the most likely item on an AR to wear out (assumption on my part), then I would be more impressed if you showed us which barrel types will last the longest and maintain accuracy. In regards to cars you are woefully ignorant. A Toyota Corolla will outlast a Rolls Royce and it's downstream cost of ownership will be a lot less. Please note that you are not alone, as the vast majority of the firearm industry is clueless what quality is and who William Edwards Deming is. You should look him up since he was born in Iowa. Mic Drop!
Im not saying its duty or war grade, but my Diamondback has been flawless so far
Does it fire when I pull the trigger? Does it hit what I'm aiming at? Does it do it every time I use it? Then that's good enough.
theres a guy thst recently post a video on youtube and while shooting his exspensive ar it blew up think it was a POF P415 those are $2,000. guess that one was missed in the quality control department . if you can afford exspensive guns buy them if you cant buy the best quality lower buget gun you can afford. its better to have one and not need it than need one and not have one..
It was most likely the bad ammo that caused early unlocking and case failure. That will ruin any rifle.
@@ChucksSEADnDEAD exactly noatter how much it cost
Caleb personifies this principle by clearly buying only the most expensive hair gel.
All manufacturers these days use CNC machines which allows them to program the tolerances in and press the button to start the milling process. They are literally all the same exact thing after that process. The only difference that can exist is in cost of raw materials to start with and the amount of QC at the end of the process for all intents and purposes, they are the exact same thing whether you’re paying $3000 or less than $1000. Companies like Brownell’s have a direct conflict of interest when it comes to this topic so of course they’re going to tell you that there is a major difference between one rifle and the other because they would like to sell you a bunch of expensive stuff.
I can tell you don't actually run a CNC machine. There's much, much more to it than just programming and hitting a button.
ive never seen a $350 AR maybe $550 is a more reasonable figure
$80 Anderson lower
$300 complete upper with BCG
$35 lower spring and trigger group
$50 adjustable butt stock
$10 magazine
$45 carry handle
---------------------------------
$520 is the total
I bought a $500 PSA kit but since then I've replaced a good amount of components, trigger, stock, grip, sights, safety, bolt release, charging handle, etc. There's not much left on mine from the original kit besides the barrel, BCG and receivers. It's now a $1200 rifle. So, I wonder how it would compare to Steve's $1000 rifle at this point. Those kits are just a starting point.
esp compared to a Geissele Duty Grade for about $1100...
@@kxkxkxkx His is still not in the same league as a Geissele uty grade rifle. They may be expensive but they are also very high quality and well above average. The free float handguard, BCG and barrel are all much better than the PSA and I like PSA, I'm not hating on them at all.
Unless you bought the premium build kit with the FN barrel, and have a Microbest phosphate BCG, your rifle is still behind longevity wise.
Uh oh. Extra parts collecting dust? They need a new home.....and that's how you wind up with more rifles!!! 🤣
@Colton Owens this may be a goofy question, but is there any way to find out actual longevity on these parts?? I wonder if anyone has tested ballistic advantage against FN barrels, let's say?
Is the expected life of rhe rifle 5k rounds? 20k? Then I'd be interested to see how many people actually "shoot out" an ar in a lifetime, and what part gives up first....
Ok. Down the rabbit hole I go. 😆
The question being would you trust your life to your rifle...that depends on how long and hard you want to fight... Home defense vs national defense... but something is better than nothing when you need it.
I think the big thing with building a cheaper AR that is "just as good if not better" is that you can take a long time to do it. Over that long time you tend to forget just how much each one of those parts cost.
Also, you can look for deals.
It was my plan to take my time, but the soviet people's republic of the west coast forced my hand. Maxed out credit, owe everyone I know, paid almost $1250; but all my recipes show dates prior to Inslee signing 1240 later this week
Yep, buying a higher quality rifle with the parts you want already installed saves you the cost of paying for parts you wont use.
@@FishFind3000 which rifles have the parts I want installed already? None.
That's what I did I spent almost two years just buying higher end parts that were on sale. I never spent more than maybe $400 at a time and usually less. I ended up with a high-end but didn't really feel the pain.
The Harbor Freight comparison is pure slander at this point. The quality/durability of their Hercules line is legit.
PSA helped me unhitch from the expensive AR manure wagon yoke.
I only know my experiences but i have to chime in. My very own first ar-15 was a century arms, paid 600$ at gander mountain around 2007-2008ish. It was literally the only one on the shelf. It did not run right out of the box. It was essentially an akwardly designed single shot as the bolt would kick back far enough to eject the spent casing, but not far enough to grab the back of the next round out of the magazine. Causing the bolt to go into battery empty for the second shot. The “gun smith “ at gander mountain was as useful as a screen door in a submarine and informed me that my new rifle chambered for remington 223, would only function with federal 223. I found the problem myself, that was the hold bored in the back of the bolt carrier the tail of the bolt sticks through was bored .055 larger than my dads colt. Only took me a year to find a replacement for it being ar-15s we’re flying off the shelves. I eventually got it fixed and had no further issues. That being said i will not buy another century arms anything ever. The 3 psa ones i have since gotten my wife and I have worked absolutely fine for our needs. Another one to note granted not ar related, taurus. I have some higher end 22’s. The most reliable one I own now tho is a 280$ Taurus tx22. God knows everything Taurus has ever made has not ended in the same results, but as for me i find it funny that a 280$ taurus 22 pistols comes with more features, shoots better, and is dead nuts more reliable than my 500$ ruger 22/45
I have a few cheaper ARs that are fun to play with. Pricing Anywhere from 600 - 1200. The one I’m currently trying to finish up will be in the mid 3k area when it’s complete. No Gucci parts. Just quality components. Never thought I’d spend that much on a rifle which isn’t even that high compared to many others out there. But I can definitely tell the difference in quality from my other rifles.
That is very high compared to others out there.
@@GodGunsGills for sure. That does include optic and light Setup, but I agree. Definitely not a cheap build.
It very much depends on what you consider “just as good”, will a PSA blem special (I have many) run just as reliably and shoot as accurately as a DDM4? Probably. Will the DD be lighter? feel better? shoot smoother? Yeah it probably will. Will it last longer? Maybe but will it outlast it 4:1…no
I'm just going to keep my opinion to myself! Happy shooting...
This is the comment you asked for. Feel free to straighten me out. A few years ago I began building an AR. I found out that the Anderson lower wasn't as pretty as the BCM, DD, etc. but that material-wise, it was just as good. Only a few forging companies out there you know. Same deal with the upper, but that was an Aero. The barrel was a government contract over-run (FN that is CHF and chrome lined.) The bolt was a Toolcraft 158 Carenter steel sold by a company with their own nickel boron BCG. I did pay full retail for the B5 stock as shown in your video and I put a Smith Vortex flash hider on the weapon. The rail and sights were made by Troy and the pistol grip was Fab Defense. The trigger group had a teflon finish. A machinist dimpled the barrel and put a gas block on it and he taught me how to put on the gas tube (which was melonited BTW) and also he taught me how to headspace the bolt.
The balance of the parts were mil spec or better and when I ran into problems or had questions, the tech dept. at Brownells was willing to offer their expertise. Over half of all the parts came from Brownells. It grouped within 3/8 ths of an inch of what a BCM costing 2 grand did (best group was 1.55 inches at 100 yards.) It's pretty much held it's accuracy for just over 10,000 rounds. Total cost to build came in at 1260 dollars (got a lot of stuff when it went on sale.) If I had spent the other $700 for a BCM, DD, etc. what would I get (except good resale value?) What are your criticisms relating to what I did?
I've been running my palmetto state armory ar-15 for a long time Multiple rifle classes including valor ridge. It does the job just fine I am okay with combat accurate plus if anything breaks it's cheap enough to replace 🙂
Agree! Going to Valor Ridge 10/2023...Rifleman 1 Class...very much looking forward to it. I was debating on taking my BCM or PSA premium upper(FN Barrel)...Likely will take the PSA set up. Thanks for the assurance.
I bought a magpul kitted SW M&P2 AR/Sig romeo5 optic for my wife so she could join me for a fighting rifle class. Stripped..Greased..Ran 720 rounds no issues.
Have you ever done a comparison of popular priced -V- expensive M1911s? If not, it might be worth pursuing. Thanks for a great AR15 video.
I've spent my life in the automotive industry. And the GM products the last 15 years, that you pay $70,000 or more from, are complete garbage. That being said, there are quality cheap AR's
I just dipped my toes into the AR world for the first time a few weeks ago. I've had some experience with S&W M&P rifles owned by friends and they're fantastic rifles. I have also personally visited the Palmetto State Armory headquarters/factory in Columbia, SC while on duty a few years ago. When it came time to make my purchase, there was no way I could afford a Daniel Defense, Colt, SIG, or Savage Arms AR. I went with a PSA AR with free-float barrel, a Sig Romeo 5 red dot, Magpul MBUS backup sights, and Magpul furniture all the way around. The build quality is outstanding for a $600 rifle. I know the build quality is great because I've seen them being built, at their factory, and their commitment to providing excellent guns at affordable prices is evident in my rifle. I'm extremely pleased with my purchase.