OMG can you imagine how much this model would actually cost!! honestly the wonderful thing is being able to pass these on to your children or who ever, they will remain far longer to the maker. Superb work
The unfortunate truth regarding your comment Campbell, is that the number of truly grateful recipients grows less every year because it doesn’t light up and take you to another site at warp speed!
Nice save. After 45 years as a cabinetmaker “ you will always learn more from your mistakes ( not that you made one) than doing it right the first time.
I vaguely recall ClickSpring making a special tool/jig for spacing the gear hubs perfectly, and him going into detail of why. Was some sort of adjustable divider with shafts on to mesh the gears perfectly, and then directly transfer the precise distance to the required points on the hub locations. Was a long time ago, so not sure any more which particular project it was in.
I am working on a model steam engine at the moment, a Wallers Table Engine. Making it from a set of plans. The castings I am making as well, resin 3d printing the patterns and sand casting in ZA12 alloy. Watching these videos not only spurs me on but alerts me to a lot of 'gotchas' in the design of the castings, particularly how to hold them for machining.
One more higly admirable piece of work, filmed by a high class videor. I take my hat off for the patience You have to keep on repeating this fiddly miniature work.
As a steam locomotives modeller I’ve learned (pretty quickly) that disaster recovery is one of the most essential skills, if not THE skill, you must have to ever complete any project. No matter how carefully you work, things do go awry, and some idiot added, no doubt supported by reality, “at the worst possible moment”. It is immensely satisfying to see your recovery. The relocating of the center was brilliant. It is a stupidly simple idea which I certainly would have overlooked. Even when you explained the concept the penny did not drop. What? No off center drilled bushing? Huh?! But when I saw you shift the table it dawned on me and I had to pause the video to stop my right hand from slapping my forehead. I will never forget this lesson (that is until mr. Alzheimer comes along).
I understood your explanation irregardless of the word "unloosen". Understanding why PM used threaded holes to precision center gears is a whole 'nother thing.
Hi Joe, Happy 4th to you and the family. I like the way you show how their way to mount the gear set could cause a problem (which it did) and your solution. I know you are going to recess that center bushing a wee bit to make it look and work correct. :-) You and the family stay safe.
Joe you must have the patience of an Angel and the power of God above to work on this little stuff . This stuff gives me heart burn just watching you do it .
Just my thoughts , but when I run into situations similar to what happened with the gear mesh I would have coated the gears (one at a time) with lay out fluid and look for any abnormalities.
I looked at that and thought an eccentric bushing on the centre gear would give you mesh adjustment capability for both top and bottom gear, with that bushing then locked in with the screw. will you now need to adjust the tailstock end lead screw support by the same 5 thou you adjusted the part?
Don't these transmission arms normally have a slot so you can adjust the gears as you go? I mean, you definitely need it if you have a set of change gears, but could make sense anyway.
Nice one Joe. If as you say you nailed the drawing dimensions and I am sure you did, it can only be the vagaries of the brass gear stock not being in tolerance or every kit that PM Research has sold would have had the same problem and as they have been selling this kit for some time I'm sure if it were their dimensions that were at fault it would have been brought to their attention and it should have been rectified.
Had to do this to an 80% AR receiver that I milled out (for myself of course.) The jig drilled one of the hammer holes off center so i plunged it out, fine threaded it, made a stainless threaded plug, loctited it and redrilled it. It's worked flawlessly for hundreds of rounds so far.
I am familiar with the exact hole you are referring to. When doing a hole like that, make one side of the repair bushing to have a head on it so if it does move, it can only go one way. Recess the head into the lower of course.
@@joepie221 Unfortunately the wall thickness isn't very much at that pin hole so the best I could come up with for it was the threaded plug. Normally I would favor a shoulder of some kind, but its been holding strong for quite some time now.
@@glenj.taylor2938 Yes. I cut the thread in the receiver using a tap but chased the thread for the stainless plug on the lathe for a nice thread engagement.
Someone has already mentioned it in the comments, but something similar to a clockmaker's gear depthing tool would have been useful for you to check the gear centre distances. Hmm, since you have enjoyed making the small parts for this lathe so much, maybe make a clock for a for a future project.
I'm glad to see that I am not alone with this feature, I ended up milling a slot in the casting and installing a Tee nut and a 2-56 screw. it actually looks far better than it did and allowed adjustment. I am just a hobby guy and thought I made an error. you can see it in my lame video. Rich
Oh one more remark. I have also learned that it is helpful to carefully deburr the sides of brass gears with the finest file or scotch brite and after that give it a touch with the polishing spindle with a medium compound. This rounds the edges ever so slightly but if done gently does not take away any material from the gear teeth’s main shape. It makes the gears run silky smooth. But the meshing should be good in the first place of course.
Go and have a look at Chris' of Click Spring jig for setting the backlash on these type of gears. I think it is in his skeleton clock series. But yes, like you said, threads is not the best option here. A bush that is press fitted with a retaining bolt or even a circlip would have been better.
At 29:42 it shows the gears not lined up side to side. This could be easily improved by a shim between each of the compound gear sets as on some full sized machines.
defiantly coming together now i fir one am awaiting the next part and the next as the finished product will be nothing short of perfect thanks joe i would not have the skill level to evean try making one of these
What options would there be other than threads? At that scale would a solid shaft pressed into the casting work? A shaft pressed in then the other end having a reduced OD and threaded to take a nut to keep the gear in place.
There's probably just enough material there to counter sink the bushings into the threaded hole just enough to register and leave enough thread for the screws to hold. However, I think that's aluminum and I don't really know what I'm talking about, so maybe not.
Soon when you are older and grayer, you can set this lathe up on your TV stand, tell the Nurse how you used to work on full sized ones, and turn up a few phonograph needles In Your Golden years. Chortle!
Nice fix I think I would try playing with the shim thicknesses also. I would have trouble working with these small parts ,,, I'm not as steady as I used to be. Thanks for sharing.
That bushing was a great fix. I was thinking 1) plug the hole with an aluminum round and then 2) drill the hole. You did it in one step. Still learning every day!
Clickspring made a tool to set the mesh on gears then transfer the the proper distance for the axle locations. Here is a link to the third video in the build series that shows the assembly and how it is used. ua-cam.com/video/F-vcdvqg-zk/v-deo.html
Nice work with the bushing! I would love to hear You elaborate on pressing small thin bushings vs locktitening 638 vs heat shrinking them in. Have made a mess of it a few times. Maybe worth a video?
As said below setting the gears up on a clock makers depthing tool arrangement would have been a good idea to verify centre distances. On an old lathe I know of the casting holding a couple of the change gears had shafts either pressed in or cast in for the gears. The shafts had a reduced diameter at the end with a thread so the gears were retained by a nut tightened to the shoulder. I don't think those screws holding the gears are that true to scale. Great build though and much more involved than I initially thought.
You should have checked the meshing pitch before drilling and tapping the holes and not rely on the drawing. I use a depthing tool on my clocks before drilling and reaming the holes. Like you said relying on tapped holes is not the best idea. You got there in the end and that’s what counts. Nice work so far joe.
Ak-47 a little, looks more like a Tavor X95 to me! Excellent work Joe as a hobby machinist I have learned more from you than any other Machinist on UA-cam! Thanks for all the hard work you do for us! Recording and Editing is very labor intensive! God Bless you and Happy 4th of July!
Nice job! Are you planning to replace the screws with hex headed bolts. I think they would improve the overall look of the model (but hey! It's your model, not mined!)
In situations like these it is a good idea to put a strip of thin paper (say cigarette paper) between the meshing gears before you tighten down the screws. If possible you would find the tight spot and insert the paper there. That will give you the clearance/backlash you need.
It is interesting how PM has deviated from the standard lathe design here as this would normally have a tee slot for the gear stacks so that you could change gears to cut different feed rates. maybe a mod you could do Joe
Yeah, you can see they cast in the slot, but then went fake with those two bosses. Probably only one feed ratio on this one. I guess Joe won't be doing much threading unless he modifies this banjo and makes a set of change gears.
I would just stay away from using threads as locators all together. A well placed counterbore to accept the gear sleeves would be a great fix. then the sleeve is the locator and the screw just holds it down.
Would taking about two thou off of the diameter of the gear and then using a file to restore the profile of the teeth have been an option? I know it wouldn't work for a full sized transmission, but for what is essentially a desk ornament?
I must say I was a bit surprised you didn't slot the Y on the banjo and install a 3rd gear combination. It would have given some adjustment as well as being asteticly appealing in my opinion. Believe me I'm not knocking your excelant work in any way. I really enjoy all your tips and tricks although some are way beyond my pay grade!
OMG can you imagine how much this model would actually cost!! honestly the wonderful thing is being able to pass these on to your children or who ever, they will remain far longer to the maker. Superb work
The unfortunate truth regarding your comment Campbell, is that the number of truly grateful recipients grows less every year because it doesn’t light up and take you to another site at warp speed!
Nice save. After 45 years as a cabinetmaker “ you will always learn more from your mistakes ( not that you made one) than doing it right the first time.
I like it. Brass makes a much better bearing surface than aluminum anyway.
Another excellent process.Brain,eye,hand coordination.Thank you.
I vaguely recall ClickSpring making a special tool/jig for spacing the gear hubs perfectly, and him going into detail of why. Was some sort of adjustable divider with shafts on to mesh the gears perfectly, and then directly transfer the precise distance to the required points on the hub locations. Was a long time ago, so not sure any more which particular project it was in.
It's a clockmakers depthing tool. Would have been good for this job, but this banjo if fake anyway. it should have a slot and adjustable gears.
I do love bead blasting the work; it makes metal parts look wonderful and clean!!!
I am working on a model steam engine at the moment, a Wallers Table Engine. Making it from a set of plans. The castings I am making as well, resin 3d printing the patterns and sand casting in ZA12 alloy. Watching these videos not only spurs me on but alerts me to a lot of 'gotchas' in the design of the castings, particularly how to hold them for machining.
Nice solution with the rogue hole Joe - way to go :) Pretty darned tricky work.
Thanks for sharing that. It is important to us mere bodgers to see it can and does happen to any and all of us.
Nice recovery!. Well done.
Situations like this are just frustrating and an inconvenience. I actually like the occasional challenge of recovery.
One more higly admirable piece of work, filmed by a high class videor.
I take my hat off for the patience You have to keep on repeating this fiddly miniature work.
PM's sloppiness gave me an opportunity to learn a valuable technique. Thanks!
Absolutely a work of art. Thanks for the video.
As a steam locomotives modeller I’ve learned (pretty quickly) that disaster recovery is one of the most essential skills, if not THE skill, you must have to ever complete any project. No matter how carefully you work, things do go awry, and some idiot added, no doubt supported by reality, “at the worst possible moment”. It is immensely satisfying to see your recovery. The relocating of the center was brilliant. It is a stupidly simple idea which I certainly would have overlooked. Even when you explained the concept the penny did not drop. What? No off center drilled bushing? Huh?! But when I saw you shift the table it dawned on me and I had to pause the video to stop my right hand from slapping my forehead. I will never forget this lesson (that is until mr. Alzheimer comes along).
Glad it was helpful.
Great work! The brass bush is a bearing upgrade anyway...
Excellent recovery from a tight situation:}) This is why I watch your videos, the setups and the solutions.
Happy 4th of July!
Thank you Joe !
That tip of measuring the offset between tools is a great one!
Sadly, I don't have a quick-change tool post -- yet ;-)
Wow. Happy 4th Joe. Time to unloosen some cold ones and celebrate.
I can't wait to see you hand grind the cutting tools for this little beauty. Thanks Joe amazing.
Hey Joe. Good job on finding out what was wrong. I learned something new about gear mesh with tapped holes.
Can't wait for the final result
really love this mini machining series and the tips along the way,thanks
Glad you like them!
I understood your explanation irregardless of the word "unloosen". Understanding why PM used threaded holes to precision center gears is a whole 'nother thing.
"irregardless" is in the same category as "unloosen". :)
@@heli_av8tor807 Yes. Yes it is. ;)
Like I said: If you unloosen it actually tightens up. That's why you're having issues with your gears binding. ;-)
Check "unloosen" in the dictionary - might surprise you.
Hi Joe,
Happy 4th to you and the family. I like the way you show how their way to mount the gear set could cause a problem (which it did) and your solution. I know you are going to recess that center bushing a wee bit to make it look and work correct. :-) You and the family stay safe.
Joe you must have the patience of an Angel and the power of God above to work on this little stuff . This stuff gives me heart burn just watching you do it .
Finally! We catch Joe having the same trouble us mere mortals have continually ;-)
Nice save, though!
Sometimes fixing things that go wrong or weren't right in the first place can be the most satisfying part of a job when successful.
I agree.
I'm loving every video, keep up the good work
Great save Joe, interesting, instructive and engaging too, thanks for sharing 👍
Just my thoughts , but when I run into situations similar to what happened with the gear mesh I would have coated the gears (one at a time) with lay out fluid and look for any abnormalities.
Sitting here, gobsmacked at the precision and skill. Thanks for the masterclass Joe. 👍
Thanks for watching.
I looked at that and thought an eccentric bushing on the centre gear would give you mesh adjustment capability for both top and bottom gear, with that bushing then locked in with the screw. will you now need to adjust the tailstock end lead screw support by the same 5 thou you adjusted the part?
Don't these transmission arms normally have a slot so you can adjust the gears as you go? I mean, you definitely need it if you have a set of change gears, but could make sense anyway.
Yes, they do. The casting has a 'fake' slot shape to make it look as if it does. Shame, really- but it would all be a bit fiddly to make and use...
The best channel ever.. good luck Mr. Joe
Insane project
Nice one Joe. If as you say you nailed the drawing dimensions and I am sure you did, it can only be the vagaries of the brass gear stock not being in tolerance or every kit that PM Research has sold would have had the same problem and as they have been selling this kit for some time I'm sure if it were their dimensions that were at fault it would have been brought to their attention and it should have been rectified.
Had to do this to an 80% AR receiver that I milled out (for myself of course.) The jig drilled one of the hammer holes off center so i plunged it out, fine threaded it, made a stainless threaded plug, loctited it and redrilled it. It's worked flawlessly for hundreds of rounds so far.
That's awesome!
Did you cut the threads and everything?
I am familiar with the exact hole you are referring to. When doing a hole like that, make one side of the repair bushing to have a head on it so if it does move, it can only go one way. Recess the head into the lower of course.
@@joepie221 Unfortunately the wall thickness isn't very much at that pin hole so the best I could come up with for it was the threaded plug. Normally I would favor a shoulder of some kind, but its been holding strong for quite some time now.
@@glenj.taylor2938 Yes. I cut the thread in the receiver using a tap but chased the thread for the stainless plug on the lathe for a nice thread engagement.
Joe, I still say you are like a jazz musician who can improvise very well with the proper end result!
Improvise, adapt and overcome.
Nice save Joe, bet you had a smile on your face when the gears meshed! All the best n stay safe. TFS, GB :)
It was a different look than I had when they didn't spin. Thats for sure.
Someone has already mentioned it in the comments, but something similar to a clockmaker's gear depthing tool would have been useful for you to check the gear centre distances.
Hmm, since you have enjoyed making the small parts for this lathe so much, maybe make a clock for a for a future project.
I'm glad to see that I am not alone with this feature, I ended up milling a slot in the casting and installing a Tee nut and a 2-56 screw. it actually looks far better than it did and allowed adjustment. I am just a hobby guy and thought I made an error. you can see it in my lame video.
Rich
Hey Joe thank you again it's nice to find the solution. I liked that micro AK-47 LOL.
Nice correction Joe and I agree with the AK look of the part. Happy 4th of July.
Oh one more remark. I have also learned that it is helpful to carefully deburr the sides of brass gears with the finest file or scotch brite and after that give it a touch with the polishing spindle with a medium compound. This rounds the edges ever so slightly but if done gently does not take away any material from the gear teeth’s main shape. It makes the gears run silky smooth. But the meshing should be good in the first place of course.
Go and have a look at Chris' of Click Spring jig for setting the backlash on these type of gears.
I think it is in his skeleton clock series.
But yes, like you said, threads is not the best option here. A bush that is press fitted with a retaining bolt or even a circlip would have been better.
Nice save on that off center hole :)
bad stuff happens all the time but a great solution and result
At 29:42 it shows the gears not lined up side to side. This could be easily improved by a shim between each of the compound gear sets as on some full sized machines.
Wow, nice work Joe. Fittings gears has never been easy.
It will be interesting to see what motor you put on it.
The steam engine he built would be pretty cool.
@@larrybarnes3920 Running a line shaft to the mill and drill press he needs to make next.
Thanks for the video Joe.
As always,,great way to start my day,,thx Joe. I too spent the 4th in my shop and ordering a keyless chuck for the mill 😜
Cha Ching.
Nice to see the master recover from a problem. 👍
I wish i meet you and learn from you directly because you're a master
defiantly coming together now i fir one am awaiting the next part and the next as the finished product will be nothing short of perfect thanks joe i would not have the skill level to evean try making one of these
Imaging how much better you would be even after your first attempt. Don't be afraid to try.
Nicely done Joe, happy 4th of July 👍
What options would there be other than threads? At that scale would a solid shaft pressed into the casting work? A shaft pressed in then the other end having a reduced OD and threaded to take a nut to keep the gear in place.
There's probably just enough material there to counter sink the bushings into the threaded hole just enough to register and leave enough thread for the screws to hold. However, I think that's aluminum and I don't really know what I'm talking about, so maybe not.
Soon when you are older and grayer, you can set this lathe up on your TV stand, tell the
Nurse how you used to work on full sized ones, and turn up a few phonograph needles In Your Golden years. Chortle!
Endless possibilities.
very good job joe
Very nice save Joe. My southbend has T slots for the gears and set the lash with paper. Highly technical set up. 😅
Nice fix I think I would try playing with the shim thicknesses also. I would have trouble working with these small parts ,,, I'm not as steady as I used to be. Thanks for sharing.
That bushing was a great fix. I was thinking 1) plug the hole with an aluminum round and then 2) drill the hole. You did it in one step. Still learning every day!
Less risk my way too.
Clickspring made a tool to set the mesh on gears then transfer the the proper distance for the axle locations. Here is a link to the third video in the build series that shows the assembly and how it is used. ua-cam.com/video/F-vcdvqg-zk/v-deo.html
Nice work with the bushing!
I would love to hear You elaborate on pressing small thin bushings vs locktitening 638 vs heat shrinking them in. Have made a mess of it a few times. Maybe worth a video?
Nice work! I did wonder on the casting accuracy.
Wonderful save... :)
Another great video. Thank you. How did you know that 5 thou would be the right distance to move the hole?
Looking at the deflection of the gear, I could tell it wasn't much. I guessed at 5 and got the results I was looking for.
As said below setting the gears up on a clock makers depthing tool arrangement would have been a good idea to verify centre distances. On an old lathe I know of the casting holding a couple of the change gears had shafts either pressed in or cast in for the gears. The shafts had a reduced diameter at the end with a thread so the gears were retained by a nut tightened to the shoulder. I don't think those screws holding the gears are that true to scale. Great build though and much more involved than I initially thought.
Thanks Joe
Laughed at the mini AK comment, was thinking the same thing! It's the banana mag, does it every time lol
Joe Pie, where I klick the "like button" bevore I've seen the video because I know it will be good!
Same, GB :)
Thanks guys.
you could use the eccntric bush as adjustment to get the center distance correct .
Like bandsaw guides do.
Thanks Joe……. Getting close. 👍👍
Still say Chris needs to make you some of his beautiful blue screws 👍🏴
That would look awesome!
Another masterpiece ready to add to the master assembly.
Woody
Thanks for sharing!
Nice work. Keep it up and someday you're going to be one hell of a machinest. 😁
Top comment!😄
Did you try to assemble it without the added shims? Maybe they are not parallel, just a thought. Cheers.
Perfect! Happy Fourth CHEERS
You should have checked the meshing pitch before drilling and tapping the holes and not rely on the drawing. I use a depthing tool on my clocks before drilling and reaming the holes. Like you said relying on tapped holes is not the best idea. You got there in the end and that’s what counts. Nice work so far joe.
cant wait for the mini mini lathe youre going to make with this mini lathe
I'll need new eyes first.
Ak-47 a little, looks more like a Tavor X95 to me! Excellent work Joe as a hobby machinist I have learned more from you than any other Machinist on UA-cam! Thanks for all the hard work you do for us! Recording and Editing is very labor intensive! God Bless you and Happy 4th of July!
You "Unloosening" legend.
Nice job! Are you planning to replace the screws with hex headed bolts. I think they would improve the overall look of the model (but hey! It's your model, not mined!)
In situations like these it is a good idea to put a strip of thin paper (say cigarette paper) between the meshing gears before you tighten down the screws. If possible you would find the tight spot and insert the paper there. That will give you the clearance/backlash you need.
It is interesting how PM has deviated from the standard lathe design here as this would normally have a tee slot for the gear stacks so that you could change gears to cut different feed rates. maybe a mod you could do Joe
Yeah, you can see they cast in the slot, but then went fake with those two bosses. Probably only one feed ratio on this one. I guess Joe won't be doing much threading unless he modifies this banjo and makes a set of change gears.
Nice. How much did you give that press fit?
Keep practicing !
ry nice work Joe as always. A quick question if I may? How did you arrive at the 5 thou offset for the rebushed boss housing the long shaft?
Nice work.
Correct me if I am wrong but, it looks like the magazine on your AK-47 is intended to be slotted to allow adjusting the gear mesh.
The plans call out only a hole, but I agree with you.
Would there be a point in making a support plate of sorts to keep the screws spaced properly on the other side of the gears?
I would just stay away from using threads as locators all together. A well placed counterbore to accept the gear sleeves would be a great fix. then the sleeve is the locator and the screw just holds it down.
Thank you again and Happy Independence day!! 🇺🇸
Not just PM research that has errors like this. Many metal kits have these problems, your choice of solution is actually the easiest way to fix
You can tell it's an AK because of the distinct curvature of the 40 caliber assault clipazine
Well recovered.
Would taking about two thou off of the diameter of the gear and then using a file to restore the profile of the teeth have been an option? I know it wouldn't work for a full sized transmission, but for what is essentially a desk ornament?
Correctly cut, a gears OD shouldn't have any bearing on its mesh performance. But that is always a possibility.
I was thinking the same thing AK.
may have been worth turning a few thou off the OD of the gear, just in case it was the tips of the teeth crashing into the root of its mating gear?
Certainly something to check.
Do you have a running total of hours so far?
Yes, He will need to bill these hours
I must say I was a bit surprised you didn't slot the Y on the banjo and install a 3rd gear combination. It would have given some adjustment as well as being asteticly appealing in my opinion. Believe me I'm not knocking your excelant work in any way. I really enjoy all your tips and tricks although some are way beyond my pay grade!
Its another fit at assembly feature.