@@mattglasgow4383which sucks cuz it can take months to schedule and you gotta pester them the whole time just to get a date set that works for the doctor and both parties
It’s also pretty disgusting in veterans benefits law. Doctors will sign up to be examiners for VA and have no clue what their role in the process is, what the legal standards are, what the medical research says, and so on. It’s probably worse because they’re literally signing up for it and not putting in the effort to learn.
but if you dare send an application to your local best buy for a basic cashier position.... they still expect you to have at least a year of experience before they hire you.
It’s almost like people who apply for government jobs tend to want job security with no expectation of competency. Imagine that but in every facet of the medical field too. Welcome to socialized medicine.
Some doctors figure they can price themselves out of the market if they don't want to "get involved" in a legal case. Most judges have no problem correcting that attitude. To be fair, many doctors stop those antics when they learn the money comes out of their patient's pocket.
@@nocturn9x Not wanting to testify, or requiring a lot of money to testify, is not indicative of having something to hide. Good try, but that's a fail. They are usually greedy, not hiding something.
He's getting scammed. He'll have a great time when the liability for being deposed comes back and your family loses everything so he can be altruistic to lawyers.
If you were on trial for murder (and you didn't do it), would you rather have a jury who all reluctantly accept their community responsibility? Or a jury who all gamed the system so they could make easy money and get away from their job that they hate? The act of protecting normal people from bad actors should be enough of a reward, if you're financially able to do that.
@@creativecraving Having to go to court and testify and being grilled under cross examination is a VERY stressful experience. No matter who you are or how often you have to do it. Not everybody does well in that situtation even if they are a good professional otherwise. They SHOULD get extra pay and you are quite smug and obtuse to suggest that they should altruistically feel "rewarded" for that obligation. And yes, they are OBLIGATED, they don't get to refuse.
@@creativecraving Really? My bad. When you said "the act of protecting people from bad actors" it sounded as though you were talking about the cop getting paid more money for testifying for court.
As someone who has both worked in a personal injury firm, and worked in healthcare, the reason most doctors charge that amount is because they don’t want to be in court and use the money as a deterrent. If you sign up to be a police officer you know you will testify in court, but if you are going through med school testifying in court is not as expected and not a core part of your job.
Imagine you were injured. You go to the doctor. And you treat with that doctor for two years. You owe tens of thousands of dollars in medical bills, because you’ve paid your deductible twice, paid out-of-pocket cost, paid for prescriptions, and so on. Not to mention, you were out of work for months and your finances are in really bad shape because of this car crash you were in. Your lawyer tells you that in order for you to win your case against the driver who crashed into you, there needs to be testimony from your treating doctor. And that’s because medical testimony is almost always required to show that your injuries were caused by whatever happened to you, in this case a car crash, and explain to the jury how you were treated medical and how much your bills cost. You’re rarely allowed to go to court and hand the jury your medical records and bills-you need expert testimony from your doctor. And then you find out that the doctor treated you, is going to charge an exorbitant amount because you are inconveniencing them. (Most doctors don’t do this; some do however). How would you feel? Would you do that as a doctor? If so, then you and I are just very different.
@@MikeRafiLawyer i’m not a doctor but I do understand it. It’s not as simple as showing up to court, especially given opposing counsel will drag you and your reputation through the mud. To flip it around, how would you feel if I was to go through your credentials nitpicking everything about you and claiming you are a bad lawyer? Now take that and remember that these are doctors who don’t work with lawyers on the regular. They take those nitpicks as personal attacks not courtroom strategies. I’m not saying it’s right, I agree to some extent that the doctors owe a duty to their patients that extends into the courtroom, but I also understand that when someone is in med school this isn’t something they usually consider and would avoid if given the opportunity.
Blah blah blah weasel words blah blah blah. Blood sucking lawyers set their own fees. Physicians do not. Except for having to deal with this sort of BS, that is 99.9% looking to line lawyers pockets. If your expert is over priced, get a different expert. What’s that? No one else will do it because your case is bogus? Fair market value is what a willing buyer and a willing seller agree to absent duress. Look it up. If you can’t get a cheap witness, your are under market, you cheap bastard.
@@MikeRafiLawyer if all that were the case I'd find a lawyer competent enough to simply use the medical records. those things should be as good as the doctor's word unless you are trying to say the doctor provided faulty care.
@MikeRafiLawyer image the doctor didn't treat you because he didn't want to go to court and couldn't give an f off price, now you are treated by a inferior doctor and end up losing you eyesight however your in luck because he's great in court.
I felt like I was on trial providing evidence in a deposition. Left feeling like awful. I wish they let us know and trained on this in med school. Such a wonderful legal and medical system we have.
Not a doctor, but an expert. The doctor is probably giving you an F off price. He may have an ethical issue with the case, or he just might not want to be part of the legal proceeding. He is a doctor after all, he could have gone to law school if he wanted.
If I remember correctly, this clip is from a series of clips about doctors and court cases, so he might be specifically talking about doctors who make a career out of being a court expert more than a practicing physician
Testifying to the care you gave can bring to light mistakes you may have made and not realised, it can open you up to a deeper level of scrutiny and it also means you need to either take time off work or take off personal time I dont agree with it but these are the reasons i can see to them overcharging as a deterant
Giving statements is not expensive. Cancelling most if not all patients for the day, reviewing the appropriate literature, talking with colleagues about what they would have done in the case, getting a lawyer of their own to prepare itself, worrying about the statement, paying monthly or annual payments for a security law contract, this is what is expensive about a doctor giving a deposition. Honestly there is no point in doing the deposition on the doctor's own office because going to the court physically is the least expensive part of the deposition.
@@MikeRafiLawyerYou see the one hour deposition, not the prep that goes into that deposition. It would be like a client of yours getting mad that they have to pay you so much after you settled a case in one hearing. All the prep that went into the hearing is why you charge so much.
@@MikeRafiLawyer oh, you mean like how lawyers make you pay $250 for a phone call yeah. They spent 30 minutes with you and there goes more than I make in a day and I have an effing security clearance.
yah this clip sounds very much like a typical hypocritical lawyer mad because a doctor didn't want to be involved with god knows what. especially when anyone with a brain will know the first accusation the other lawyer will bring up is "you are being payed to take the stance you are!"
@@gohantanakawhat kind of lawyers are you using? Consultation is usually free and then it’s more like 100 to 200 an hour. But that’s not going into the lawyers pocket, it goes to pay the employees and rent the building. Then the lawyer gets what’s left over if they own their own practice. If not then they get a fraction of a fraction. Just like an electrician doesn’t get the whole hourly rate in their pocket when they own their own business, or plumber or HVAC, neither does a lawyer. Their fees are still much higher but to try to pretend like a lawyer gets 250 bucks in their pocket for a phone call is some heavy voluntary ignorance.
@@nocturn9x Yes, I myself have worked with and am friends with accountants, lawyers and doctors. Just because I also benefit from such things doesn't mean I can't shit on the exploitative behavior of such practices. It would not however feel as exploitive or need to be if entry to such professions wasn't capped at such a high price. there's a reason when you have an Indian doctor they seems far more genuine than American one.
As an inspector and a reluctant expert witnesse (on occasion) it's like scheduling an extremely stressful argument where some asshat (the opposing lawyer) will misconstrue what you say, try his best to make you look like a fool, and frame everything in his favor. You've got to think about the question asked and you have to think about why they're asking it. If you don't you'll get talked into a corner quickly. Rember that these dudes argue and play with words for a living. Tldr; Yeah going to court is a massive pain in the ass. Im not stepping foot in that place without getting paid.
You recently did a video about how your job isnt courtroom paperwork, its working with clients. I'd expect the doctors feel exactly the same way as you do on those days where you want to quit.
Exorbitant? Maybe - in some cases. Every other professional mentioned here is a salary or wage worker. They're paid the same for the time they're giving the deposition or preparing for it - and not by the injured person. They also have had ONE contact to give a deposition about - either the incident (as in a cop) or the trip to the ER, or the autopsy in a death case. The treating physician is NOT automatically paid by anyone for the time in giving the deposition, or in preparing for it. Preparing for the deposition can also consume MANY hours, if they are providing continuing treatment, with multiple contacts and tests to review. Considering how long it can take to actually get a case into court, they may have been doing so for a year or more.
@@MikeRafiLawyerI like most of your videos, and this is not to be rude: Would you be willing to have the same compensation structure for doctors who witness for you? A smaller comparison from what you earn, but a set % of the winnings? This issue with that is that doctors wouldn't have the ability to spread out that risk. They don't usually have multiple cases at the same time, so they are taking a bigger risk of never getting paid for depositions because they don't do it a lot.
@@chasechapman2020 Docs getting a percentage of the winnings is a horrendous idea. If the other side was aware of it, they would so so quickly point out that the testimony is biased because the doc stands to make more money if it leads to a win. Of course, you could always point out that a doc (or any expert witness” brought in and paid by one side could be biased, but at least it’s a fixed compensation for their time regardless of what they say.
Doctors are not technically paid by the state. Asking a private citizen to give a deposition should 1000% cost money to a law firm. If the opportunity cost of doing business is high enough (in place of giving the deposition), you have to compensate fairly.
@@JustinFromMDnah, just because you want the ability to force other people to work doesn't mean it's a good idea... It means you are pro indentured servitude and nothing beyond that lol
@@MikeRafiLawyer i would argue lawyer fees are unreasonable, and that's you doing the job you are trained to do. if a doctor wanted to argue in front of a judge and jury he (or she) would be a lawyer.
I feel this should be massively discouraged. If doctors value money over the truth, surely there’s a risk of bribery from one side to lie about the findings
My grandfather was the chief toxicologist of a major northeastern us city and he could, but didn't charge up to 50k a day for legal cases. Generally they would use the employees for court ordered situations so he usually was only expert testimony.... Even still he would do them free, or for his typical days worth of pay bc he felt it was gross to capitalize on the suffering of other people, but I'm sure that's incredibly rare to find.
Problem is that the doctors he is referring to are not the ones being sued. They’re the ones needed by the plaintiff to help illustrate the care they were provided, and in turn paint a bigger picture about the extent of their injury and the affect to their life after. And I believe even with a subpoena, a fact witness such as a non-party physician can charge a “reasonable” fee for their time. But I also am not a lawyer and could be totally wrong, so.
Doctor here: Testifying while easier than actually providing treatment, it opens you for scrutiny on and of everything you said, did and wrote down Edit: why would you not want scrutiny? Its not that you dont want scrutiny, or just want the money. Its that every person will find a fault with every treatment with every case every time. For example, we had a case of a guy who came into my ER complaining of nausea, drowzyness and some chest pains. This is NOT AT ALL cardiac arrest symptoms, yet, we triaged him, run an EKG on him asap. Smoker, diabetic, overweight 55 year old male. Nothing out of the ordinary, he left triage and sat in the waiting area deemed a Yellow priority patient (must be seen within 45 minutes), probably the cause of nausea, drowzyness etc. Were NOT cardiac in nature. 10 minutes after leaving the triage area, he falls to the ground, becomes unresponsive and a code blue is initiated by the admissions staff. We take him to the code blue area and reanimate for 30 minutes. The guy comes out and is under observation, heavily unstable and barely has a pulse. Not even 5 minutes later he goes into cardiac arrest again, at this time after 45 minutes he dies. Protocol was followed to the T. We missed no diagnostic opportunities, didnt miss crucial steps and our diagnosis algorithm was flawless. Yet, we got a lawsuit. The personal injury lawer on the other side brought a professional court doctor to dtate we should have run more tests, that we should have done this or the other. That because he was overweight we could have suspected this or that fringe diagnosis. Luckly our lawyer was amazing and showed that the professional court doctor barely practiced if at all and that his suggestions would cost the patient money, the hospital's time and resources and bring forth almost no benefit if any to 99.9% of patients. However, the judge told us that if the guy had one or two more suggestive symptoms, or that if we had waited for triage 20 minutes instead of 5, then we would have lost.
I mean ... $15/hr is just a bit ridiculous to charge for giving testimony on a patient. Either the chart notes should be good enough and you don't pay the doctor or at least pay what seeing 2-4 patients would see in that hour 🤷♀️ would you want to be paid less than minimum wage (where I live $15/hr is less than the minimum wage) after over a decade in schooling/training, taking on hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt only to be paid less than minimum wage because someone thinks that they should only pay the COPAY of a visit that would take far less time than a deposition? Your comment makes no sense. Thousands of dollars is just wrong, but so would only paying the copay of ONE patient.
I'm a doc and I deserve to be paid for my expertise and time. Plus, an attorney also charges their client for it. So it's not like they're paying me directly. Attorneys always whine about how privileged we are until you realize they tried getting into medical school first and couldn't
My uncle is an orthopedic surgeon who has retied to do insurance work. He told me that 'Doctors hate lawyers on general principles. Until they need one, and then they hate them even more.' 😅
the lawyer complaining about another professional charging for their valuable time. Right. If they’re going to be made liable for future deposition work may as well charge upfront. look forward to even more expensive healthcare America.
The lawyer is charging fair market value for their job. If you don't like it, find another one. The doctor is charging monopoly money for the only source of information. If you don't like it, lose your case.
Healthcare in America isn't exorbitantly expensive because Doctors have to testify in cases. It's exorbitantly expensive because corporations turned it into a for-profit business.
He’s a personal injury lawyer. He doesn’t charge unless he wins. He’s essentially putting time and effort in for free all the way up until he either wins or loses. At no cost to the person who’s been injured because I mean; you’ve been horribly scarred and disabled and just broken mentally, and to get any chance at money for treatment or whatever else, you have to pay for a lawyer? I mean that’s absurd. And it’s cruel. Which is why it’s only, hey, if we win, we get some of the money for the work we did but we won’t charge you for this work. And it is a lot of work. It’s a pretty good model from what I can tell. A morally right one. I wouldn’t say every person goes for the moral route but I believe he does.
I’d love to see a video about some of the mistake doctors make in the legal system (beyond charging goofy amounts) As a med student, testifying seems terrifying
Does the defense then not have the ability to depose/cross examine the physician as well? Surely there is a logical reason for this behavior that isn’t the ‘doctors are money grubbing and hate legally helping their patients’ message of the video.
You don’t think doctor who treat injured people know they will need to testify in the person’s case? Imagine you were injured. You go to the doctor. And you treat with that doctor for two years. You owe tens of thousands of dollars in medical bills, because you’ve paid your deductible twice, paid out-of-pocket cost, paid for prescriptions, and so on. Not to mention, you were out of work for months and your finances are in really bad shape because of this car crash you were in. Your lawyer tells you that in order for you to win your case against the driver who crashed into you, there needs to be testimony from your treating doctor. And that’s because medical testimony is almost always required to show that your injuries were caused by whatever happened to you, in this case a car crash, and explain to the jury how you were treated medical and how much your bills cost. You’re rarely allowed to go to court and hand the jury your medical records and bills-you need expert testimony from your doctor. And then you find out that the doctor treated you, is going to charge an exorbitant amount because you are inconveniencing them. (Most doctors don’t do this; some do however). How would you feel? Would you do that as a doctor? If so, then you and I are just very different.
If I were a medical doctor I'd charge as much as I could get away with in the hope I'd not be called. Under cross examination sooner or later I'd be tortured as to why I'd provided specific emergency lifesaving care, not other care that might, with the benefit of the hindsight of blood test or scans, been been more appropriate. Reputation destroyed overnight for the equivalent of choosing the wrong lottery numbers before it is even drawn.
A lot of doctors charge 5 thousand per day regardless of the length of the deposition. That’s very reasonable considering they’re missing a day of work for this. High paying specialities can easily earn more than a couple k per day and even the lowest earning docs can earn 1500 per shift they cover. Add a 100% premium for that and it’s not hard to get thousands per hour of deposition.
A lawyer thinking testifying in court is part of a doctors job is disgusting to me. No its not like medical examiner's and cop's, part of their job is explicitly investigating (possible) crime. A doctors job is to help people by treating their injuries/diseases, and they should spend as much of their (working) time as possible doing just that. So, of course, they will charge a lot if you try to get/force them to testify because they don't want to be in court. They want to actually help people.
Highschool friend went on to become a doctor, he used being an expert witness to pay off his student debt. Hes not personally a fan of the practice, but he got what he needed out of it
Well, it's probably fairly uncomfortable for the doctor compared to his normal work. And he's probably taking on more financial risk, or at least feels like he's taking on more risk. In that light, it seems justified to charge more than he does for his normal work. But thousands per hour does seem excessive.
yes it pisses me off when people get annoyed at how much lawyers charge when they don't realise that 'experts' will easily charge more, yet they never get bad press
Medical knowledge is a commodity and physicians have a monopoly on it. That’s why they can charge big fees and call the shots (you have to wait on them but they don’t have to wait on you).
The flip side of this is that it makes the price signals favor treating over testifying. If you wanted to spend more time treating and diagnosing than testifying, price is one way to do that.
This happened to me. I lost my accident case because he wanted 5k to testify. I didn’t have that. That was 35 years ago. I still suffer greatly from the broken back. The person who hit me was an illegal alien way back then.
Well... some lawyers here in my country ask for 800 bucks/hour for being on the phone or making photocopies... that's quite normal. so what's your point?
You can, but then you have to worry about whether a pissed off doctor will even be an asset to you if they’re forced into court without the pay they wanted.
Personal injury attorneys are paid a % of the recovery… very different than a doctor who treats the patient (pursuant to insurance) and then wants an hourly rate as if they make $5,000,000 a year, when they actually make $450,000.
I am rich. My next door neighbor is an emergency room physician. In 2019 (last time we talked about it), he was paid $375 an hour by the hospital, overtime eligible, full benefits. Just as a point of comparison.
It's amazing how much of societies problems come down to how doctors think and what they're taught. And the type of personality they tend to be due to certain jobs attracting certain types of people.
That would be super illegal in most of Europe. If you got called in as a witness or if they suspect you screwed someones treatment up, you WILL be at the meeting unless you want them to revoke your license
Sure, but now you have a doctor who is annoyed at you. And you’re trying to get him to testify for your client. Of course they should tell the truth either way, buuut you can tell the same true story in different ways. I’m not saying this is how it should be, I’m saying this is how it is.
It's pretty funny watching a personal injury lawyer complaining about exorbitant doctor requests for depositions. "They so greedy! Now gimme 30% of the judgement!"
Do you have any advice to a law student about to graduate this spring and start his career after the bar exam? What do you think they should focus on most in the beginning? What should they try to learn and what skills are most important to improve?
Seems like reading comprehension is a dying art with how many dumbasses missed the "far beyond their normal rate" part of the story. No one is sayong doctors cant charge the amount they would be missing, just that doctors that game the system and charge exorbitant amounts are kinda trashy. Maybe listen to the video again before you "pick sides" in a video thats not about picking sides.
Let’s talk about the exorbitant costs of lawyers. Medical school is not easy nor lacks time commitment during our youth. Often our own health’s are sacrificed in the process to provide patient care. Maybe get off your high horse
It absolutely does. It sets a market rate. Why should I doctor who went to school for 12 years with 500,000 in debt work for free for the "goodness of their hearts" but scummy lawyers should make millions off of cases??? @@nickoftime602
@@nickoftime602 and that’s called neglecting to incorporate the full picture in regard to legal fees and overall fees people have to pay for litigation. The deposition, arguable one of the most important components of the case, has fees that pale in comparison to what the lawyers are often charging.
The person who's paying for the doctor to testify is the defendant, not the lawyer. Also, lawyer rates are minuscule compared to what doctors charge to go to court
A lot of people are under the impression that doctors, hospitals, places of healthcare etc, do not be truthful about options, and that they are free from any wrongdoing they may cause/contribute So sadly a lot of people don’t take the proper steps…
This guy is acting like it's our job to service the legal system. Imagine being so indoctrinated in our corrupt and overly letigious legal system that you think it is part of a Doctor's job to testify in court. I already went to school for an absurd amount of time to learn medicine and how to diagnose and treat my patients. It is a disgusting misrepresentation of doctors. His argument implies, if you have a job, you have a moral and ethical responsibility to testify. On what planet does that logic follow. Such a dishonest and quite morally reprehensible argument. He is really showcasing how scummy lawyers are. Thinking everyone owes you their time to testify... the level of narcissism it takes to make the statements he did is honestly incomprehensible.
If you treat patients on a lien, then it is your job to testify... because that’s how you get paid out of the settlement or the verdict. What kind of medicine do you practice?
@@MikeRafiLawyer @MikeRafiLawyer You've just changed the parameters of the argument. We aren't going into "if-then" scenarios. You did not link the full video and as far as I can tell there isn't one. Regardless, a paramedic doesn't agree to testify just because they need a job to feed themselves and put a roof over their head. To extend the argument to other professions tells me it doesn't matter if it was a lien because a paramedic can't treat on a lien. Paramedics do no have perscription authority. You could at least acknowledge your arguemnt has some very inappropriate implications. - Family medicine
The starting point is that all people who have knowledge of things that affect issues in a lawsuit may be deposed. Doctors and other medical professionals know that they are going to treat people who are injured in ways that spawn lawsuits. That’s just common sense. We have every right to subpoena witnesses, regardless of their profession, and pay them nothing but a witness fee. Usually around $35. Out of respect, lawyers typically offer to pay medical providers their reasonable hourly rate. In the workers comp setting, where I practice, a doctor’s hourly rate is limited to $800. So I’ve had situations where a doctor will give testimony in a work comp case $800 an hour. I don’t handle those cases but many times there’s also a companion personal injury case. So I will go to depose that doctor in the personal injury case, and they will want let’s say $3000 an hour. For the same exact testimony. Their testimony is required because the plaintiff has to offer expert testimony from a treating provider to show, the injuries occurred, how they retreated, what the prognosis is, and what the bills were. So the testimony is essential. I am fine with a doctor saying to me I make X amount per year divided by hours, and this is my hourly rate. But that’s not what happens. $3000 an hour is roughly $6 million a year- the majority of doctors, the overwhelming majority, do not make that per hour across the year. I take exception when doctors are looking to make more money to testify about the medical treatment they performed, how much they make actually performing medical treatment. There are sometimes when a doctor wants to charge so much for sitting for a deposition that I could literally go and hire a world renowned expert in the field to review my client’s medical records and provide testimony about it for less. But, that hurts my clients, because juries generally want to hear from the doctor who actually laid their hands on the plaintiff and treated them. It doesn’t hurt me personally. I paid the expense upfront, and that’s just part of my job. It hurts my clients/the doctors’ patients, At the end of the day, those expenses are paid by the injured person. So if their doctor charges them $3000 versus $1000, my client who is hurt, maybe has been out of work, has medical bills, and whatever else, has to pay an extra thousand dollars. When a doctor does want to charge an unreasonable rate, we then ask the judge to review it. Because under the wall, even though there’s no limit on how much doctors can charge per se, the rate has to be reasonable. And it’s been interesting to see doctors try to defend charging exorbitant amounts per hour Just to sit in their office and answer questions. I hope this gives you some context of where I’m coming from. I dictated this because I knew the answer would be, so if some of it doesn’t make sense, I apologize and do your best. Thanks for watching my video. Oh, and I agree, paramedics themselves do not treat on the lean, but often the EMS bill is paid through a lien. So then I think it’s up to the employer to adequately pay the paramedic for their time, because I think it’s even more obvious that paramedics respond to things that will give rise to a lawsuit, maybe even more than your average orthopedic surgeon.
@MikeRafiLawyer Saying you have a right does not make it the right thing to do. It is that very practice that is incredibly immoral. You are implying that you are doing a favor by paying someone what they are worth in the first place. It is not a favor. It is the bare minimum. Just because the legal system allows you to subject someone to free labor does not make it ok. The exorbitant fees are tangential to my argument. You did address it in part. Firstly, contract work is notoriously expensive. Look how much concierge medicine costs. It is jaw-dropping. That is the closest thing to contract work medicine has, and it compares to some of the figures you give. It is inappropriate to extrapolate contract pay to an annual salary. Youre comparing apples to oranges. The work done as a contract employee is not consistent, and no one said they had consistent work at 3k an hour. Second, my argument refers to the statement that it is part of our job to testify or give deposition. We are not agents of the court. It is NOT part of our job to give deposition. It is attorney's that have decided they want to pile that responsibility on us. We are already being forced to become billers, social safety nets, and accoutants. On top of all of that, you push more onto doctors by implying absolute responsibility to be contract workers of the court. Just because it is necessary for your case does not give you any right to disrupt someone's life and claim they have responsibility because it furthers your agenda as an attorney. It is unethical and blatantly self-serving. If payment for services were required, then my argument would be different, but acting as if it is a favor to pay someone what they are worth is disgusting. My obligation is to treat my patient. I do not have the responsibility to make them finacially whole just because I provided treatment. If they got hurt because of my treatment, that is a different story. I only mention this because I sense that response coming. I do not want this argument to keep branching as it has already veered quite far from my original point. To summarize: Just because getting deposition from someone is nessisary for your case does not make it that persons responsibility. It is YOUR responsibility as an attorney to convince that person to do what you want. That motivation could be anything and does not have to be money. You can't get what you need, so you are applying the only pressure you have, which is social shaming by implying neglect of a responsibility that you claim exists as a premise to your argument. Im saying that your premis of responsibility doesn't exist to begin with. Your argument is a way to make your job easier through dishonest representation of a situation to suit your own desired outcome. A neglect and cop out of your responsibility as an attorney.
My responsibility isn’t to convince doctors to testify. My responsibility is to do what’s best for my client, and my client alone, so long as it is ethical. If the doc will willingly testify, great. If not, he will be compelled to do so. I don’t have to convince… that’s not how this works.
Right across the border in Florida we do remote expert depositions and if the doctor doesn’t show up he could be held in contempt of court. If the fees are too exorbitant either party may move to request the court review the fees and if necessary order the doctor to charge reasonable fees. In a BI case we (defense) had a doctor charging $3,000 per hour and $15,000 for trial testimony. His claim to fame was Harvard (undergrad lol, but he still used the Harvard edu email). The plaintiff moved for reasonable fees and the court agreed lmao 😂 his fees were cut in half, case settled and he walked away with nothing. Edit: spelling
Doctors are pretty unhappy giving depositions, I'll tell ya that much
Doctors are unhappy in general lol, working in pharmacy every time we have to question a doctor for dosage or regarding interactions they get grumpy
@@juggftw4868 that's why there's a shortage ;)
No one in the medical field wants to give depositions.
@@juggftw4868 and that's why there's a shortage ;)
@@mattglasgow4383which sucks cuz it can take months to schedule and you gotta pester them the whole time just to get a date set that works for the doctor and both parties
It’s also pretty disgusting in veterans benefits law. Doctors will sign up to be examiners for VA and have no clue what their role in the process is, what the legal standards are, what the medical research says, and so on. It’s probably worse because they’re literally signing up for it and not putting in the effort to learn.
but if you dare send an application to your local best buy for a basic cashier position.... they still expect you to have at least a year of experience before they hire you.
It’s almost like people who apply for government jobs tend to want job security with no expectation of competency.
Imagine that but in every facet of the medical field too. Welcome to socialized medicine.
@@fangorn23thats an entirely different topic
@@coltonbaker6968nah it's a contrasting example that sharpens the point
Are the higher ups putting in effort to train them. It falls upon management to train employees not employees to train themselves
Some doctors figure they can price themselves out of the market if they don't want to "get involved" in a legal case. Most judges have no problem correcting that attitude. To be fair, many doctors stop those antics when they learn the money comes out of their patient's pocket.
I mean... they may be able to charge for a depo... but a subpoena to court is just that.. they get the same as any other witness
Most states, the lawyer, can only ask for records. It's up to the provider to decide to go to the case.
My dad does depositions about 3-4 times a year as a physician and does it for no additional charges.
❤
your dad is a chad. Also probably has nothing to hide
@@nocturn9x Not wanting to testify, or requiring a lot of money to testify, is not indicative of having something to hide. Good try, but that's a fail. They are usually greedy, not hiding something.
He's getting scammed. He'll have a great time when the liability for being deposed comes back and your family loses everything so he can be altruistic to lawyers.
Where I come from, cops get double or triple time for going to court to testify if it's their time off. So yah, everyone cashes in except jurors.
If you were on trial for murder (and you didn't do it), would you rather have a jury who all reluctantly accept their community responsibility? Or a jury who all gamed the system so they could make easy money and get away from their job that they hate?
The act of protecting normal people from bad actors should be enough of a reward, if you're financially able to do that.
@@creativecraving Having to go to court and testify and being grilled under cross examination is a VERY stressful experience. No matter who you are or how often you have to do it. Not everybody does well in that situtation even if they are a good professional otherwise. They SHOULD get extra pay and you are quite smug and obtuse to suggest that they should altruistically feel "rewarded" for that obligation. And yes, they are OBLIGATED, they don't get to refuse.
@@impalamama7302 Hi. I was talking about the jury. Someone Said the jury deserves the same compensation as the expert witnesses.
@@creativecraving Really? My bad. When you said "the act of protecting people from bad actors" it sounded as though you were talking about the cop getting paid more money for testifying for court.
@@impalamama7302 No, the cop is one of the potential bad actors that innocent people must be protected against. Thanks for understanding! 😊
“Hey only lawyers can do that!”
I freaking love these shorts. I love hearing you detail your job like this. Thank you
As someone who has both worked in a personal injury firm, and worked in healthcare, the reason most doctors charge that amount is because they don’t want to be in court and use the money as a deterrent. If you sign up to be a police officer you know you will testify in court, but if you are going through med school testifying in court is not as expected and not a core part of your job.
Imagine you were injured. You go to the doctor. And you treat with that doctor for two years. You owe tens of thousands of dollars in medical bills, because you’ve paid your deductible twice, paid out-of-pocket cost, paid for prescriptions, and so on. Not to mention, you were out of work for months and your finances are in really bad shape because of this car crash you were in. Your lawyer tells you that in order for you to win your case against the driver who crashed into you, there needs to be testimony from your treating doctor.
And that’s because medical testimony is almost always required to show that your injuries were caused by whatever happened to you, in this case a car crash, and explain to the jury how you were treated medical and how much your bills cost. You’re rarely allowed to go to court and hand the jury your medical records and bills-you need expert testimony from your doctor.
And then you find out that the doctor treated you, is going to charge an exorbitant amount because you are inconveniencing them. (Most doctors don’t do this; some do however).
How would you feel? Would you do that as a doctor? If so, then you and I are just very different.
@@MikeRafiLawyer i’m not a doctor but I do understand it.
It’s not as simple as showing up to court, especially given opposing counsel will drag you and your reputation through the mud. To flip it around, how would you feel if I was to go through your credentials nitpicking everything about you and claiming you are a bad lawyer?
Now take that and remember that these are doctors who don’t work with lawyers on the regular. They take those nitpicks as personal attacks not courtroom strategies.
I’m not saying it’s right, I agree to some extent that the doctors owe a duty to their patients that extends into the courtroom, but I also understand that when someone is in med school this isn’t something they usually consider and would avoid if given the opportunity.
Blah blah blah weasel words blah blah blah.
Blood sucking lawyers set their own fees. Physicians do not. Except for having to deal with this sort of BS, that is 99.9% looking to line lawyers pockets. If your expert is over priced, get a different expert.
What’s that? No one else will do it because your case is bogus?
Fair market value is what a willing buyer and a willing seller agree to absent duress. Look it up. If you can’t get a cheap witness, your are under market, you cheap bastard.
@@MikeRafiLawyer if all that were the case I'd find a lawyer competent enough to simply use the medical records.
those things should be as good as the doctor's word unless you are trying to say the doctor provided faulty care.
@MikeRafiLawyer image the doctor didn't treat you because he didn't want to go to court and couldn't give an f off price, now you are treated by a inferior doctor and end up losing you eyesight however your in luck because he's great in court.
I felt like I was on trial providing evidence in a deposition. Left feeling like awful. I wish they let us know and trained on this in med school. Such a wonderful legal and medical system we have.
Should people not have legal remedy for their injuries?
Not a doctor, but an expert.
The doctor is probably giving you an F off price. He may have an ethical issue with the case, or he just might not want to be part of the legal proceeding. He is a doctor after all, he could have gone to law school if he wanted.
If I remember correctly, this clip is from a series of clips about doctors and court cases, so he might be specifically talking about doctors who make a career out of being a court expert more than a practicing physician
Testifying to the care you gave can bring to light mistakes you may have made and not realised, it can open you up to a deeper level of scrutiny and it also means you need to either take time off work or take off personal time
I dont agree with it but these are the reasons i can see to them overcharging as a deterant
Giving statements is not expensive.
Cancelling most if not all patients for the day, reviewing the appropriate literature, talking with colleagues about what they would have done in the case, getting a lawyer of their own to prepare itself, worrying about the statement, paying monthly or annual payments for a security law contract, this is what is expensive about a doctor giving a deposition. Honestly there is no point in doing the deposition on the doctor's own office because going to the court physically is the least expensive part of the deposition.
The point of this video was that doctors dont do any of that. They spend usually 1 hour at their office. 🤦🏻♂️
@@MikeRafiLawyerYou see the one hour deposition, not the prep that goes into that deposition. It would be like a client of yours getting mad that they have to pay you so much after you settled a case in one hearing. All the prep that went into the hearing is why you charge so much.
@@MikeRafiLawyer oh, you mean like how lawyers make you pay $250 for a phone call yeah. They spent 30 minutes with you and there goes more than I make in a day and I have an effing security clearance.
yah this clip sounds very much like a typical hypocritical lawyer mad because a doctor didn't want to be involved with god knows what.
especially when anyone with a brain will know the first accusation the other lawyer will bring up is "you are being payed to take the stance you are!"
@@gohantanakawhat kind of lawyers are you using?
Consultation is usually free and then it’s more like 100 to 200 an hour. But that’s not going into the lawyers pocket, it goes to pay the employees and rent the building. Then the lawyer gets what’s left over if they own their own practice. If not then they get a fraction of a fraction.
Just like an electrician doesn’t get the whole hourly rate in their pocket when they own their own business, or plumber or HVAC, neither does a lawyer. Their fees are still much higher but to try to pretend like a lawyer gets 250 bucks in their pocket for a phone call is some heavy voluntary ignorance.
Yes, it’s disgusting for doctors to do that.
And yes, it’s also funny coming from an attorney.
Since when do attorneys charge thousands of dollars an hour? Get real.
Yup fucking lawyers complaining about exorbitant prices
@@DormantGolem have you ever paid a professional?
It isn't because those charges go to the defendant, not the lawyer.
@@nocturn9x Yes, I myself have worked with and am friends with accountants, lawyers and doctors. Just because I also benefit from such things doesn't mean I can't shit on the exploitative behavior of such practices. It would not however feel as exploitive or need to be if entry to such professions wasn't capped at such a high price. there's a reason when you have an Indian doctor they seems far more genuine than American one.
As an inspector and a reluctant expert witnesse (on occasion) it's like scheduling an extremely stressful argument where some asshat (the opposing lawyer) will misconstrue what you say, try his best to make you look like a fool, and frame everything in his favor. You've got to think about the question asked and you have to think about why they're asking it. If you don't you'll get talked into a corner quickly. Rember that these dudes argue and play with words for a living.
Tldr; Yeah going to court is a massive pain in the ass. Im not stepping foot in that place without getting paid.
You recently did a video about how your job isnt courtroom paperwork, its working with clients. I'd expect the doctors feel exactly the same way as you do on those days where you want to quit.
Exorbitant? Maybe - in some cases.
Every other professional mentioned here is a salary or wage worker. They're paid the same for the time they're giving the deposition or preparing for it - and not by the injured person. They also have had ONE contact to give a deposition about - either the incident (as in a cop) or the trip to the ER, or the autopsy in a death case.
The treating physician is NOT automatically paid by anyone for the time in giving the deposition, or in preparing for it. Preparing for the deposition can also consume MANY hours, if they are providing continuing treatment, with multiple contacts and tests to review. Considering how long it can take to actually get a case into court, they may have been doing so for a year or more.
A lawyer talking about how much doctors charge 😂
That showed just how insanely there doctor are charging
@@deddrz2549 yeah haha 🤣 I would like to see the comparison haha 😂 in any case it's still ironic
Exactly😂 Lawyers when they see a will: lets take it all😂
His envy was showing.
Pretty entertaining hearing a person injury lawyer complain about exorbitant fees... :)
How are our exorbitant… what are our fees when we lose? What are our fees in a $5,000 case that takes 2 years?
@@MikeRafiLawyerI like most of your videos, and this is not to be rude:
Would you be willing to have the same compensation structure for doctors who witness for you? A smaller comparison from what you earn, but a set % of the winnings?
This issue with that is that doctors wouldn't have the ability to spread out that risk. They don't usually have multiple cases at the same time, so they are taking a bigger risk of never getting paid for depositions because they don't do it a lot.
Btw I agree that thousands is usually exorbitant and I think that's your main point.
@@chasechapman2020
Docs getting a percentage of the winnings is a horrendous idea. If the other side was aware of it, they would so so quickly point out that the testimony is biased because the doc stands to make more money if it leads to a win.
Of course, you could always point out that a doc (or any expert witness” brought in and paid by one side could be biased, but at least it’s a fixed compensation for their time regardless of what they say.
Doctors are not technically paid by the state. Asking a private citizen to give a deposition should 1000% cost money to a law firm. If the opportunity cost of doing business is high enough (in place of giving the deposition), you have to compensate fairly.
Not really. If you're treating injured parties you should be aware you may need to comply with subpoenas and get paid what everyone else does.
Fairly, totally. Unreasonably high, no.
@@JustinFromMDnah, just because you want the ability to force other people to work doesn't mean it's a good idea... It means you are pro indentured servitude and nothing beyond that lol
Fair is what you agree to pay and what the physician agrees to accept. That’s the definition of fair market value. Look it up.
@@MikeRafiLawyer i would argue lawyer fees are unreasonable, and that's you doing the job you are trained to do.
if a doctor wanted to argue in front of a judge and jury he (or she) would be a lawyer.
If me on a jury gets 5 dollars an hour there’s no way he should get any more than his normal rate.
And lawyers and judges and court reporters ….
Doctors went to school for 10 years and spent so much time and money. Time is gold for them! So it’s fair enough!!
Then you'd never be able to get a doctor to testify.
@@RotGodKinga subpoena is a hell of a thing.
@@glennnelson7917 Lawyers are not required to take your case. If you think a lawyer is worth 5 dollars, good luck.
I feel this should be massively discouraged. If doctors value money over the truth, surely there’s a risk of bribery from one side to lie about the findings
My grandfather was the chief toxicologist of a major northeastern us city and he could, but didn't charge up to 50k a day for legal cases. Generally they would use the employees for court ordered situations so he usually was only expert testimony.... Even still he would do them free, or for his typical days worth of pay bc he felt it was gross to capitalize on the suffering of other people, but I'm sure that's incredibly rare to find.
instead of paying them directly you should be able to pay into a court trust account that gets deducted from their damages if they lose.
Problem is that the doctors he is referring to are not the ones being sued. They’re the ones needed by the plaintiff to help illustrate the care they were provided, and in turn paint a bigger picture about the extent of their injury and the affect to their life after.
And I believe even with a subpoena, a fact witness such as a non-party physician can charge a “reasonable” fee for their time.
But I also am not a lawyer and could be totally wrong, so.
It always disguised me how much they changed. You could tell right away the super skummy ones
Doctor here:
Testifying while easier than actually providing treatment, it opens you for scrutiny on and of everything you said, did and wrote down
Edit: why would you not want scrutiny?
Its not that you dont want scrutiny, or just want the money. Its that every person will find a fault with every treatment with every case every time.
For example, we had a case of a guy who came into my ER complaining of nausea, drowzyness and some chest pains.
This is NOT AT ALL cardiac arrest symptoms, yet, we triaged him, run an EKG on him asap.
Smoker, diabetic, overweight 55 year old male.
Nothing out of the ordinary, he left triage and sat in the waiting area deemed a Yellow priority patient (must be seen within 45 minutes), probably the cause of nausea, drowzyness etc. Were NOT cardiac in nature.
10 minutes after leaving the triage area, he falls to the ground, becomes unresponsive and a code blue is initiated by the admissions staff.
We take him to the code blue area and reanimate for 30 minutes. The guy comes out and is under observation, heavily unstable and barely has a pulse.
Not even 5 minutes later he goes into cardiac arrest again, at this time after 45 minutes he dies.
Protocol was followed to the T. We missed no diagnostic opportunities, didnt miss crucial steps and our diagnosis algorithm was flawless.
Yet, we got a lawsuit. The personal injury lawer on the other side brought a professional court doctor to dtate we should have run more tests, that we should have done this or the other. That because he was overweight we could have suspected this or that fringe diagnosis. Luckly our lawyer was amazing and showed that the professional court doctor barely practiced if at all and that his suggestions would cost the patient money, the hospital's time and resources and bring forth almost no benefit if any to 99.9% of patients.
However, the judge told us that if the guy had one or two more suggestive symptoms, or that if we had waited for triage 20 minutes instead of 5, then we would have lost.
You became a doctor for the wrong reasons lol, where you work ima be sure to avoid that crap hole
So? Why would you be afraid of scrutiny if you have a legitimate train of thought backed up by diagnostic evidence?
as it should be right??
Dont shoot the messenger guys
Why is that a bad thing??? Every doctor should be scrutinized
*The pot calling the kettle black*
You don’t know how personal injury lawyers get paid huh … I have lots of videos about it.
I know it's a combination of trial winnings plus a kickback from Satan
They should have the price set up front to be the same as the patient pays the doctor! Not the insurance, the patient.
It's like that in other countries...
@@PabloEscobar-ws8rz 'MURICA 🇺🇸🦅🦅🦅
the amount they charge the insurance /is/ the amount the patient pays the doctor, since the patient pays for the insurance.
I mean ... $15/hr is just a bit ridiculous to charge for giving testimony on a patient. Either the chart notes should be good enough and you don't pay the doctor or at least pay what seeing 2-4 patients would see in that hour 🤷♀️ would you want to be paid less than minimum wage (where I live $15/hr is less than the minimum wage) after over a decade in schooling/training, taking on hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt only to be paid less than minimum wage because someone thinks that they should only pay the COPAY of a visit that would take far less time than a deposition?
Your comment makes no sense.
Thousands of dollars is just wrong, but so would only paying the copay of ONE patient.
Forcing people to do things is immoral. I hate the greed and lack of awareness of you people
I'm a doc and I deserve to be paid for my expertise and time. Plus, an attorney also charges their client for it. So it's not like they're paying me directly.
Attorneys always whine about how privileged we are until you realize they tried getting into medical school first and couldn't
The amazing luck is that every time they hire somebody they agree with the lawyer.
Shocker! 😱
My uncle is an orthopedic surgeon who has retied to do insurance work. He told me that 'Doctors hate lawyers on general principles. Until they need one, and then they hate them even more.' 😅
We are bike helmets. Everyone hates us until they and hit their head.
Not a Lawyer mad about fees 😂😂😂
the lawyer complaining about another professional charging for their valuable time. Right. If they’re going to be made liable for future deposition work may as well charge upfront. look forward to even more expensive healthcare America.
The lawyer is charging fair market value for their job. If you don't like it, find another one.
The doctor is charging monopoly money for the only source of information. If you don't like it, lose your case.
Healthcare in America isn't exorbitantly expensive because Doctors have to testify in cases. It's exorbitantly expensive because corporations turned it into a for-profit business.
When i got in a car wreck many years ago getting treatment outside of a hospital was impossible. Nobody wanted the headaches
Half the cost of healthcare is to offset the cost of those that can’t pay too, so what he charged isn’t at all what he actually got
Usually less than half.
He’s a personal injury lawyer. He doesn’t charge unless he wins. He’s essentially putting time and effort in for free all the way up until he either wins or loses. At no cost to the person who’s been injured because I mean; you’ve been horribly scarred and disabled and just broken mentally, and to get any chance at money for treatment or whatever else, you have to pay for a lawyer? I mean that’s absurd. And it’s cruel. Which is why it’s only, hey, if we win, we get some of the money for the work we did but we won’t charge you for this work. And it is a lot of work. It’s a pretty good model from what I can tell. A morally right one. I wouldn’t say every person goes for the moral route but I believe he does.
Why should a physician charge less than a lawyer?
touch'e . Its ok for us lawyers to ream your ass , but not a doctor. That bothers him .
Yeah. Technically I'd trust doctors before I would lawyer's in general
Yeah, charging exorbitant amounts for depositions is about as bad as taking 40% of a law suit settlement.
Wait wait wait wait. Wait. I could charge for being deposed? HOW DID I NOT KNOW OF THIS?!
Because your only subject matter expertise is gobbling hotdogs
I’d love to see a video about some of the mistake doctors make in the legal system (beyond charging goofy amounts)
As a med student, testifying seems terrifying
Talking about doctors like everyone talks about lawyers
Does the defense then not have the ability to depose/cross examine the physician as well? Surely there is a logical reason for this behavior that isn’t the ‘doctors are money grubbing and hate legally helping their patients’ message of the video.
Those student loan aren't paying it self
Temporarily suspend medical licensing until they give their testimony.
Every doctor has its own graveyard
😂A lawyer calling others out for overcharging people!😂😂😂
Police are paid as part of their job to testify. The most ridiculous comparison I've ever heard 😂
Totally agree
You don’t think doctor who treat injured people know they will need to testify in the person’s case?
Imagine you were injured. You go to the doctor. And you treat with that doctor for two years. You owe tens of thousands of dollars in medical bills, because you’ve paid your deductible twice, paid out-of-pocket cost, paid for prescriptions, and so on. Not to mention, you were out of work for months and your finances are in really bad shape because of this car crash you were in. Your lawyer tells you that in order for you to win your case against the driver who crashed into you, there needs to be testimony from your treating doctor.
And that’s because medical testimony is almost always required to show that your injuries were caused by whatever happened to you, in this case a car crash, and explain to the jury how you were treated medical and how much your bills cost. You’re rarely allowed to go to court and hand the jury your medical records and bills-you need expert testimony from your doctor.
And then you find out that the doctor treated you, is going to charge an exorbitant amount because you are inconveniencing them. (Most doctors don’t do this; some do however).
How would you feel? Would you do that as a doctor? If so, then you and I are just very different.
If I were a medical doctor I'd charge as much as I could get away with in the hope I'd not be called. Under cross examination sooner or later I'd be tortured as to why I'd provided specific emergency lifesaving care, not other care that might, with the benefit of the hindsight of blood test or scans, been been more appropriate. Reputation destroyed overnight for the equivalent of choosing the wrong lottery numbers before it is even drawn.
A lot of doctors charge 5 thousand per day regardless of the length of the deposition. That’s very reasonable considering they’re missing a day of work for this. High paying specialities can easily earn more than a couple k per day and even the lowest earning docs can earn 1500 per shift they cover. Add a 100% premium for that and it’s not hard to get thousands per hour of deposition.
lol you’ll know if you’re in a room with a paramedic because they will definitely tell you in the first five seconds 😂
A lawyer thinking testifying in court is part of a doctors job is disgusting to me. No its not like medical examiner's and cop's, part of their job is explicitly investigating (possible) crime. A doctors job is to help people by treating their injuries/diseases, and they should spend as much of their (working) time as possible doing just that. So, of course, they will charge a lot if you try to get/force them to testify because they don't want to be in court. They want to actually help people.
The third leading cause of death is medical mistakes. Nope, see you in court
You're objectively wrong.
And the lawyer just charges a dime
Highschool friend went on to become a doctor, he used being an expert witness to pay off his student debt. Hes not personally a fan of the practice, but he got what he needed out of it
Well, it's probably fairly uncomfortable for the doctor compared to his normal work. And he's probably taking on more financial risk, or at least feels like he's taking on more risk.
In that light, it seems justified to charge more than he does for his normal work. But thousands per hour does seem excessive.
yes it pisses me off when people get annoyed at how much lawyers charge when they don't realise that 'experts' will easily charge more, yet they never get bad press
Medical knowledge is a commodity and physicians have a monopoly on it. That’s why they can charge big fees and call the shots (you have to wait on them but they don’t have to wait on you).
Lawyers charge a lot as well. I can't afford to get anyone to take my case
Taking a doctor away from providing care for others to testify, is pretty interesting. Also, lawyers charge like 40%.
The flip side of this is that it makes the price signals favor treating over testifying. If you wanted to spend more time treating and diagnosing than testifying, price is one way to do that.
This happened to me. I lost my accident case because he wanted 5k to testify. I didn’t have that. That was 35 years ago. I still suffer greatly from the broken back. The person who hit me was an illegal alien way back then.
Yeah only lawyers get to set their own fee schedule!
There should be a standard rate given to expert testimony.
Well... some lawyers here in my country ask for 800 bucks/hour for being on the phone or making photocopies... that's quite normal. so what's your point?
Try suing one if you want to see an unhappy doctor at a deposition.
They're allowed to charge you? At that point isn't that obstruction of justice or something? Can you not just subpoena them and force them to do it?
You can, but then you have to worry about whether a pissed off doctor will even be an asset to you if they’re forced into court without the pay they wanted.
I may be going insane but is this a repost?
It seems familiar to me too
I was thinking the same, maybe just a different clip on the same topic?
Not a repost, but experts say that people have to hear the same thing three times for a really to sink in. So I’m just trying my best.
There was a similar video (but not the same) of doctors charging extremely high amounts to testify.
And they pass along that expense to you and the insurance companies, 'cuz they gotta pay that too...
That's ridiculous
Ya, kind of like the fees attorneys charge...
Personal injury attorneys are paid a % of the recovery… very different than a doctor who treats the patient (pursuant to insurance) and then wants an hourly rate as if they make $5,000,000 a year, when they actually make $450,000.
@@MikeRafiLawyer LEGAL MAXIM ● Tantum bona valent, quantum vendi possunt. 𝑻𝑯𝑰𝑵𝑮𝑺 𝑨𝑹𝑬 𝑾𝑶𝑹𝑻𝑯 𝑨𝑺 𝑴𝑼𝑪𝑯 𝑨𝑺 𝑻𝑯𝑬𝒀 𝑪𝑨𝑵 𝑩𝑬 𝑺𝑶𝑳𝑫 𝑭𝑶𝑹. (Black’s Law Dict. (9th ed. 2009) p. 1874, col. 2.)
I am rich. My next door neighbor is an emergency room physician. In 2019 (last time we talked about it), he was paid $375 an hour by the hospital, overtime eligible, full benefits. Just as a point of comparison.
A lawyer complaining about being charged exorbitant amounts 🤔
I was thinking the same thing 😂
Where are all these mystical lawyers that apparently charge too much? Have you even met a lawyer?
@@SaintRubicon You liked your own comment didn't you?
@@SirLongBongFatRipps I saw some facts and I knew I just had to like the comment.
What's also disgusting is how much lawyers charge
How much do we charge?
It's amazing how much of societies problems come down to how doctors think and what they're taught. And the type of personality they tend to be due to certain jobs attracting certain types of people.
There should be a cap for what Drs get paid for a depo.
I charged $700 an hour then donated the proceeds to my laboratory so they could go out to lunch.
That would be super illegal in most of Europe.
If you got called in as a witness or if they suspect you screwed someones treatment up, you WILL be at the meeting unless you want them to revoke your license
To be fair, they could be spending that time helping more people
Probably because they don’t want to do it. It’s not their job to get tied up into legal proceedings.
It often is when they treat injured patients who were in a car crash or something like that
Can say the same about lawyers…
If a doctor wants to charge just decline to pay and subpoena them then they get no money and if they don't show they get a charge
Sure, but now you have a doctor who is annoyed at you. And you’re trying to get him to testify for your client.
Of course they should tell the truth either way, buuut you can tell the same true story in different ways.
I’m not saying this is how it should be, I’m saying this is how it is.
It's pretty funny watching a personal injury lawyer complaining about exorbitant doctor requests for depositions.
"They so greedy! Now gimme 30% of the judgement!"
100 years ago "why did you become a doctor? to help people." today "Why did you become a doctor? $$$$"
It really bothers me lawyers charge so much for providing basic services too
Do you have any advice to a law student about to graduate this spring and start his career after the bar exam? What do you think they should focus on most in the beginning? What should they try to learn and what skills are most important to improve?
Your tie reminds me of the new Call of duty Modern warfare 2
Unrelated but where did you buy that tie,
? It looks amazing
There should be a cap on what they can charge + it would be a deterrent to testify
I’m sure mike doesn’t charge exorbitant rates either
If there was a problem with the doctor's treatment he provided, why wasn't he subpoenaed as a witness?
It's actually a doctor's job to treat patients, not give depositions.
The time you're taking them away from doing their ACTUAL job, is time they could be spending with patients. Sorry, I'm with the doctors here.
Remember, the deposition is _for_ one of their patients.
Seems like reading comprehension is a dying art with how many dumbasses missed the "far beyond their normal rate" part of the story. No one is sayong doctors cant charge the amount they would be missing, just that doctors that game the system and charge exorbitant amounts are kinda trashy.
Maybe listen to the video again before you "pick sides" in a video thats not about picking sides.
The deposition is to help a patient... And its not like it takes an entire day. I am a doctor by the way lol
It's probably to deter people from pulling them in when they're not needed
Make giving the depositions (for free) mandatory to keep medical license.
US health system is so broken that you have to be prepared for the court actions of you ever treat anyone. That's messed up
Let’s talk about the exorbitant costs of lawyers. Medical school is not easy nor lacks time commitment during our youth. Often our own health’s are sacrificed in the process to provide patient care. Maybe get off your high horse
Thats called a red herring. The cost of a lawyer plays no part in what doctors choose to charge
It absolutely does.
It sets a market rate.
Why should I doctor who went to school for 12 years with 500,000 in debt work for free for the "goodness of their hearts" but scummy lawyers should make millions off of cases??? @@nickoftime602
@@nickoftime602 and that’s called neglecting to incorporate the full picture in regard to legal fees and overall fees people have to pay for litigation. The deposition, arguable one of the most important components of the case, has fees that pale in comparison to what the lawyers are often charging.
The person who's paying for the doctor to testify is the defendant, not the lawyer. Also, lawyer rates are minuscule compared to what doctors charge to go to court
@@potato_nugget makes sense. There’s a cost associated with cancelling all of our cases or neglecting our patients for a day
My question is, can I charge for testimony as a paramedic?
If so, can it be more than the 20/hr that my company pays me?
Yes, and … you can try… the injured person pays the bill, so… up to you…
A lot of people are under the impression that doctors, hospitals, places of healthcare etc, do not be truthful about options, and that they are free from any wrongdoing they may cause/contribute
So sadly a lot of people don’t take the proper steps…
How much is your charge per hour Mr. Robin hood?
I don’t charge hourly…
A doctor’s job is to treat people. That’s what they signed up to do.
This guy is acting like it's our job to service the legal system. Imagine being so indoctrinated in our corrupt and overly letigious legal system that you think it is part of a Doctor's job to testify in court. I already went to school for an absurd amount of time to learn medicine and how to diagnose and treat my patients. It is a disgusting misrepresentation of doctors. His argument implies, if you have a job, you have a moral and ethical responsibility to testify. On what planet does that logic follow. Such a dishonest and quite morally reprehensible argument. He is really showcasing how scummy lawyers are. Thinking everyone owes you their time to testify... the level of narcissism it takes to make the statements he did is honestly incomprehensible.
If you treat patients on a lien, then it is your job to testify... because that’s how you get paid out of the settlement or the verdict. What kind of medicine do you practice?
@@MikeRafiLawyer @MikeRafiLawyer You've just changed the parameters of the argument. We aren't going into "if-then" scenarios. You did not link the full video and as far as I can tell there isn't one. Regardless, a paramedic doesn't agree to testify just because they need a job to feed themselves and put a roof over their head. To extend the argument to other professions tells me it doesn't matter if it was a lien because a paramedic can't treat on a lien. Paramedics do no have perscription authority. You could at least acknowledge your arguemnt has some very inappropriate implications.
- Family medicine
The starting point is that all people who have knowledge of things that affect issues in a lawsuit may be deposed. Doctors and other medical professionals know that they are going to treat people who are injured in ways that spawn lawsuits. That’s just common sense. We have every right to subpoena witnesses, regardless of their profession, and pay them nothing but a witness fee. Usually around $35. Out of respect, lawyers typically offer to pay medical providers their reasonable hourly rate.
In the workers comp setting, where I practice, a doctor’s hourly rate is limited to $800. So I’ve had situations where a doctor will give testimony in a work comp case $800 an hour. I don’t handle those cases but many times there’s also a companion personal injury case. So I will go to depose that doctor in the personal injury case, and they will want let’s say $3000 an hour. For the same exact testimony.
Their testimony is required because the plaintiff has to offer expert testimony from a treating provider to show, the injuries occurred, how they retreated, what the prognosis is, and what the bills were. So the testimony is essential.
I am fine with a doctor saying to me I make X amount per year divided by hours, and this is my hourly rate. But that’s not what happens.
$3000 an hour is roughly $6 million a year- the majority of doctors, the overwhelming majority, do not make that per hour across the year. I take exception when doctors are looking to make more money to testify about the medical treatment they performed, how much they make actually performing medical treatment.
There are sometimes when a doctor wants to charge so much for sitting for a deposition that I could literally go and hire a world renowned expert in the field to review my client’s medical records and provide testimony about it for less. But, that hurts my clients, because juries generally want to hear from the doctor who actually laid their hands on the plaintiff and treated them.
It doesn’t hurt me personally. I paid the expense upfront, and that’s just part of my job. It hurts my clients/the doctors’ patients, At the end of the day, those expenses are paid by the injured person. So if their doctor charges them $3000 versus $1000, my client who is hurt, maybe has been out of work, has medical bills, and whatever else, has to pay an extra thousand dollars.
When a doctor does want to charge an unreasonable rate, we then ask the judge to review it. Because under the wall, even though there’s no limit on how much doctors can charge per se, the rate has to be reasonable. And it’s been interesting to see doctors try to defend charging exorbitant amounts per hour Just to sit in their office and answer questions.
I hope this gives you some context of where I’m coming from. I dictated this because I knew the answer would be, so if some of it doesn’t make sense, I apologize and do your best. Thanks for watching my video.
Oh, and I agree, paramedics themselves do not treat on the lean, but often the EMS bill is paid through a lien. So then I think it’s up to the employer to adequately pay the paramedic for their time, because I think it’s even more obvious that paramedics respond to things that will give rise to a lawsuit, maybe even more than your average orthopedic surgeon.
@MikeRafiLawyer Saying you have a right does not make it the right thing to do. It is that very practice that is incredibly immoral. You are implying that you are doing a favor by paying someone what they are worth in the first place. It is not a favor. It is the bare minimum. Just because the legal system allows you to subject someone to free labor does not make it ok.
The exorbitant fees are tangential to my argument. You did address it in part. Firstly, contract work is notoriously expensive. Look how much concierge medicine costs. It is jaw-dropping. That is the closest thing to contract work medicine has, and it compares to some of the figures you give. It is inappropriate to extrapolate contract pay to an annual salary. Youre comparing apples to oranges. The work done as a contract employee is not consistent, and no one said they had consistent work at 3k an hour.
Second, my argument refers to the statement that it is part of our job to testify or give deposition. We are not agents of the court. It is NOT part of our job to give deposition. It is attorney's that have decided they want to pile that responsibility on us. We are already being forced to become billers, social safety nets, and accoutants. On top of all of that, you push more onto doctors by implying absolute responsibility to be contract workers of the court. Just because it is necessary for your case does not give you any right to disrupt someone's life and claim they have responsibility because it furthers your agenda as an attorney. It is unethical and blatantly self-serving. If payment for services were required, then my argument would be different, but acting as if it is a favor to pay someone what they are worth is disgusting. My obligation is to treat my patient. I do not have the responsibility to make them finacially whole just because I provided treatment. If they got hurt because of my treatment, that is a different story. I only mention this because I sense that response coming. I do not want this argument to keep branching as it has already veered quite far from my original point.
To summarize: Just because getting deposition from someone is nessisary for your case does not make it that persons responsibility. It is YOUR responsibility as an attorney to convince that person to do what you want. That motivation could be anything and does not have to be money. You can't get what you need, so you are applying the only pressure you have, which is social shaming by implying neglect of a responsibility that you claim exists as a premise to your argument. Im saying that your premis of responsibility doesn't exist to begin with. Your argument is a way to make your job easier through dishonest representation of a situation to suit your own desired outcome. A neglect and cop out of your responsibility as an attorney.
My responsibility isn’t to convince doctors to testify. My responsibility is to do what’s best for my client, and my client alone, so long as it is ethical. If the doc will willingly testify, great. If not, he will be compelled to do so. I don’t have to convince… that’s not how this works.
Right across the border in Florida we do remote expert depositions and if the doctor doesn’t show up he could be held in contempt of court. If the fees are too exorbitant either party may move to request the court review the fees and if necessary order the doctor to charge reasonable fees.
In a BI case we (defense) had a doctor charging $3,000 per hour and $15,000 for trial testimony. His claim to fame was Harvard (undergrad lol, but he still used the Harvard edu email). The plaintiff moved for reasonable fees and the court agreed lmao 😂 his fees were cut in half, case settled and he walked away with nothing.
Edit: spelling