DCS Ka-50 Black Shark - How to fly with the Trim, Autopilot Channels & Modes + Interactions & Tests
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- Опубліковано 17 лип 2024
- This video should help clear up some of the confusion about how to fly the Black Shark (Werewolf / Hokum), exactly what all the autopilot channels and modes do, how they interact and when to use which.
Skip straight to the 10:11 to get the summary of Autopilot Mode overrides, 25:16 to see the results in averaged seconds of the tests or 27:16 to see a shorter Summary of everything. Otherwise, use the timestamps below to skip to specific sections.
To support the channel: www.buymeacoffee.com/volkvoort
00:00 Intro
01:13 Autopilot Channels & Trim
04:49 Why not Tapping trim?
05:42 Altitude Hold
07:36 Stop here if you’re new
08:14 Flight Director
10:07 Autopilot Modes Summary
11:07 Auto-Turn on Target
12:08 Route Mode
15:34 Hover mode
18:39 Descent mode
19:20 Autopilot Channels Off
20:36 Collective Brake
21:07 Tests & Partial autopilot
21:13 Trim Reset
23:27 Special mode
23:44 Common issues
24:49 Test Results & Conclusions
25:16 Test Results Table
27:16 Summary
This video is in the order I feel you should learn the Black Shark in, so not every fact of the Channels are mentioned before I move onto Autopilot Modes. If you’re new to the Ka-50, you really can get by and fly really well with just Hold-Trim - everything else is just more icing and options you can choose to learn over time. The Modes turning you onto a target or polishing your hover are not perfect - it’s still down to your piloting finesse, which flying with Hold-Trim will reinforce. This is not always that easy if you’re new to helos. Of course, with its shape, powerful engines and fairly heavy mission loadout, the Ka-50 flies quite differently from other current DCS helos before one even brings in the autopilot dampening, correction and the coaxial rotors. With hovering, pop-up attacks and extreme ranges you can engage from and the need to aim complex weaponry in a single-seater Attack Helo, the flying techniques are also somewhat different from the utility/scout helos.
The tests are clearly flawed. The turns aren’t the best for any situation, and while consistent in my inputs using saturated & hair-trigger curves on most tests, each method of trim vs. autopilot channels on/off behaves differently, sometimes banking or pitching in a way that’s not best to get the turn done in the shortest time for that mode. Additionally, subtle differences in when the maneuver starts, whether the Black Shark was 1kph faster or descending 1m/s more does affect these tests. I would think for the most part the conclusions drawn would apply. Do not expect these test results to hold up in every weather condition, temperature, altitude, etc.
I did run some more tests not shown, including what trims altitude hold, which didn’t make the cut because it’d be a painfully long to show the effects. Some outlier results were also cut from the tests when I noticed a variable like the descent rate at the start of the maneuver (just from instability in the flight and not controls) throwing it off.
I clearly have my biases on which modes I prefer, but if anything, perhaps you can learn a few things on the subtler details and nuances of every flight mode and method and then figure out for yourself what works for you in which situation. Pretty much everything I mention I’ve tested in the DCS simulation during August + September 2020 - so it’s not a guide on how the Black Shark should fly vs. real life, but rather how it does behave in the simulation (as at the current version of DCS Open Beta). One think I know I didn’t test was if Route Datalink Ingress overrides Airfields (I know it does Waypoints), but I’m pretty sure it should, given they won’t have the same functionality or need as Target Points.
There are already some excellent videos out on navigation, HUD symbology, the datalink & PVI-800. RPM & elements related to your piloting I’ll cover in a later video. I show some methods for controlling the Ka-50, but check out other videos, including the original “eagledcs” youtube channel, for tips on how to fly helos in general and for maneuvers or acrobatics with coaxial rotors.
And yes, I’m still figuring out the best ways to video edit in keeping it compact without being too jarring as well as a more level voice over. And no, I ain’ no pilotologist, nor do I have special knowledge of the real Ka-50/52.
I guess if one wanted to expand on this it would be checking out various climb rates at different power levels, pitches and altitudes; exact effects of the Bank, Pitch and Heading channels, acceleration rates with various loadouts, differences in left vs right bank/rudder, proving if “Special Mode” has any effect at all (pitch?) or that Flight Director only dampens the light R-Alt light but technically still uses Radar altitude in the background mechanics rather than Barometric as it appears. Or going off the deep end with unique hair-trigger curves to get the maximum turn out for every combination of trim method vs. AP channel, loadout and speed.
Hope it helps - Ігри
Addendums/Corrections: (1) Flashgod pointed out Force-Feedback stick users typically use "Default" Special Trim. "Joystick without Springs and FFB" is for e.g. people who weaken or remove the spring out of their springed stick, so it won't return to centre but there also isn't any hydraulics/magnetics keeping it in place.
(2) FFB users should tick Force-feedback under Misc. Tab. Everyone else should UNTICK this setting as it can cause random issues.
(3) Ramsay has posted a fix here for Microsoft FFB (/Side-Winder) stick users where releasing trim makes it trim 90deg clockwise instead. You need to use "FF Tune" to swop x/y axis as per his post forums.eagle.ru/topic/255365-elevator-trim-mappings/?tab=comments#comment-4571579
Uff, you are my saviour! I am starting with KA-50 and I spend 2 sessions figuring out how to trim works... And the blame was on FFB settings, as I am using an X52 Pro.. and I have FF activated, so I can't recenter the trim until I unticked the damm option... Thanks a lot!
@@diabolesco it's the little things
Definitely need a beginner friendly series that breaks this up. You obviously know what you're talking about but teaching that is an art in and of itself. Thanks for the effort though
thanks, and wilco
Helicopters are harder than I anticipated. I tried the blackshark and couldn't keep it stable no matter what I did...
that turn into a sort of hover at 7:40 just blew my mind, i have to practice a ton, this video is gold
Much obliged
This is a criminally under watched video! All KA-50 pilots should watch it, goes into fantastic detail about all the weird quirks of flying it that you don't get in any other vid.
Kind words, thanks.
I've owned the Black Shark for a couple years but never really got into it. Now with Black Shark 3 I'm starting to learn to fly on the hoggit training server and I never 100% got the autopilot/trim to work the way I wanted it. I always tried to fly into a direction while NOT holding the trim key and then just bouncing around in the air trying to gain control. Never realized you had to hold down the trim button while turning. I wonder how it looked like yesterday evening to the Apache pilot, I ended up crashing into the ground because it just got worse. Thanks for this video, it was really really helpful for someone who's completely new to helicopters!
Good to hear. The part that it helped, not the part that balled up the Apache ;-). Seen pilots (of some production Ka-50 version) tapping trim, rather than purely using hold trim, but in DCS/for our Ka-50 version, yeah, hold trim works much much better for most situations.
you really went all-in with the analysis! Fantastic work!!
Comment for the algorithm, keep the content coming, my new fav DCS rotor head channel. Also awesome intro.
Hey Volk. Interesting how your UT video popped up on my suggestions. Great video man!
Thanks. Interesting in what way? As in you were searching for something completely different, or that it was one of the suggestions for Ka-50/Ka-50 how-to-fly?
@@volkvoort interesting that I was recently on the BSD discord & your name popped up
@@cam-man7350 ah, gotcha.
Thanks man! Iv been trying to fly this bird for a loooong time and it finally makes more sense!!!!!
Glad to hear it. The third vid on spinning/wind also helps give a bit more context to what it's doing when and why.
@@volkvoort i'm learning it and just got it. I crashed it several times.
@@mathgasm8484 crashing is just an accelerated learning technique ;-)
I almost hear the postal dude ahah. Thanks for the vid !
Cool. Thank you for this. Subbed. Now your channel is my go to place for everything Shark.
my pleasure
Great, great stuff! Thank You.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Great video thank you, subscribed.
Thanks
Thanks for guide!
Happy to help
Great videos!
Thanks!
Awesome vid brother, a little quick in parts but I thankyou & I'm going to view again. Total beginner here but so wanting to eventually fly campaigns in the beautiful Black Shark 2 😉
Great the hear... the campaigns...eh. Possibly not the highlight of the Shark, largely due to wingmen AI hasn't always remained intact over time. Think Deployment campaign, while first on the list is not the one you should start with.
@@volkvoort Oh yea, I know all about Ai not doing what their supposed to & bugs & what not but hey we work with what we've got huh & still over all DCS is the best. Thanks Volk, appreciate man 👍
@@volkvoort Any good campaigns?
@@vrking2754 I'm not specifically aware of any. Got tired of the AI not working and broken triggers on deployment, tried some other stuff where you're meant to magically see a Zu-23 in a forest which FLIR wouldn't even pick up... not the best record. That said, I think I've recently experienced the AI using Vikhrs again, so maybe it's better now. Or try out that Jungle Strike - Training Grounds from Nixon...plays long enough to be a campaign ;-)
@@volkvoort Thank you very much. I will check that out. I asked my AI wingman to attack ground targets in the Caucasus shooting range instant action mission and he did, so maybe there is some hope. 😊
Man you are a here thx for teaching me how to fly this badass hello bird
Thanks. Check out the "Heading & Flight Dynamics vs. Spinning, Wind & Turbulence" one as well - helps explain (some) of the other funny flight tendencies.
i tend to only use autopilots when enroute or trying to autohover, otherwise its easier for me to have it disengaged and just keep on the move when engaging enemies
My guide to the Black Shark autopilot :-
Before takeoff push blue flight director button until it illuminates and shows "ON"
After landing push blue flight director button until it turns off
Heh. Agree to disagree. But as long as you know the compromises of the stability you're losing and more manual flight - it's a viable choice.
@@volkvoort Me and the Shark go back to the days even before DCS World, we are old friends - I much prefer the manual flight option
Great vid, I think the main issue with people flying the Blackshark is they are not flying in the correct mode for the given situation and end up fighting the autopilot and getting in a bit of mess. The whole point of the systems onboard were to allow the pilot to fly hands-off where needed to do mission planning etc..
As you mentioned if you are low level and require authority over the helo that is what the flight director is for , you can hold the trimmer button in AP mode to achieve a similar characteristic but IMHO that would be for a very short duration or an emergency situation IRL. I often see that people are solely flying the bird around permanently holding the trim instead of using FD mode and while I have no evidence to support my notion that this is not really the correct way to fly, there is a reason there is an FD mode.
In full AP mode, I use a combination of holding the trim button and tapping, in FD mode I treat it as a normal helo and tap trim.
The other thing with the Blackshark which you mentioned is you have to use the rudder a lot to help with stable turns.
Once you get a hang of the systems (it will suddenly just click) the Shark is an incredible Helo just to fly around and great fun but until it clicks it can be extremely frustrating as it will just fight you.
Nice analysis. I've seen the counter-point, where new people are recommended to "just use FD" and that's where their learning ends. The trim tapping I think can work for Force Feedback sticks, but with springed stick (and accompanying trim default trim setting), tapping trim sets the stick position immediately which then exaggerates your intended trim/position, especially on the larger movements. IRL I've heard they never used FD (don't have a source to confirm this though) and most IRL footage I've seen they use tapping. But there's probably a bunch of mechanics in terms of the hydraulic + magnetic effects on the IRL Shark's cyclic which our desktop equivalents along with DCS probably don't capture perfectly.
Personally I slant to using Hold-trim majority of my flight, but I also maintain that's the the only correct choice - it's whatever works for you, as long as you're aware of the other methods and when switching would be more beneficial for your current flight regime.
Thanks for the compliment, btw.
@@volkvoort Yes agreed, part of the prob most of us don't have proper Helo controls so there will always be an element of gameness to the helos, although it does look like Virpil is working on some. One thing that does help is in VR you can not see your real-world stick so it removes a little of the element of a spring center feel stick for me.
It would certainly be interesting to hear a RL shark pilot talk about how they flew the bird and the reasons behind it, perhaps the systems were set up to allow a certain amount of freedom in regards to choice to fly ?? Although that doesn't sound very Russian lol.
Out of curiosity what would you assume FD mode is used for IRL ? as I mentioned I have no evidence to say anything I have said is correct it's just what seemed logical if doing NAP flying etc..
@@Johnny641 I read in the early days of the competition, to prove to some of the detractors that the autopilot systems and coaxial rotors offloaded the pilot, one guy flew a length at 2m AGL. But can't tell you if that was with the current suite of control systems we have in the sim now - some of those might have been upgraded over time from pilot comments. But yeah, there'd be a lotta things I'd like to know from a real Kamov engineer/pilot about it. That would be really interesting.
@@volkvoort thanks for the info and happy flying. 👍
THX
Everything in this is gold. But it's like somebody went grocery shopping and just emptied the bags of food on the kitchen floor, with apples rolling everywhere and the eggs smashed in a pile. I was completely lost trying to chunk it into topic sections with my ears. When you start a new topic you need to at the very least pause, or change your voice tone a little to show that it's a new idea and not part of the last thing you were saying. "Right, that's the dampening channels done, now I'm going to talk about the Flight Director". Something like that.
Yeah, first vid I did. Was meant to just be that one vid, everything you needed to know, done. You'll see later vids I change the pacing etc. I still like to script things so I don't waste your time, but not this condensed anymore.
@@volkvoort That makes sense. I thought I'd seen some of your other videos due to the distinctive title animation and hadn't noticed it there.
Very informative thank you. Unfortunately, I was confused and unable to follow you when you was discussing waypoints, autopilot with data link.
Thanks. The PVI-800 following waypoints, target points and airfields are tutorials in their own right as there's quite a bit going on there. Same with ABRIS points of interest, the stuff you can search there and the whole datalinking thing.
I'm afraid I'm not sure how to simplify it much, but if you're up for a read, here's another way of explaining it:
In the bits I could cover on, at least how it affects your flight:
Essentially Route mode can guide you to a datalink target (press the type of target already selected on your datalink until the right one flashes on your ABRIS, then press Ingress), or to something on your PVI-800 navigation panel. In the video I reference the PVI-800 as engaged or having a steerpoint if it's in Operational Mode (not in edit mode on the knob), you pressed Waypoint, Airfield or Target Point and then a number of that point that's already stored on the PVI-800.
The Shark will only follow one thing at a time, so in order of priority:
Auto-turn to Target (whether you did it from the helmet sight, slewing hat or a uncaging after selecting a datalink contact and then pressing ingress)
Route Mode on with PVI-800 Target Point button & a valid number of that Target Point lit up
Route Mode with a stored datalink target chosen and Ingress button pressed
Route Mode on with PVI-800 Waypoint or Airfield button & a valid number of that Waypoint/airfield lit up. For waypoints the DH/DT switch makes it either head straight towards your waypoint, or try to rejoin the "track" and then go towards the waypoint. Assuming your ABRIS waypoints and PVI-800 waypoints are the same, which would be the case in most startups, then essentially having it follow the desired track will try to go back to the blue line between waypoints so it can then travel along that blue route towards the waypoint, rather than heading directly to that waypoint.
If you have nothing selected on the PVI-800 (in other words no Target Point/Airfield/Waypoint buttons are lit along with a number) and no Datalink point is selected with Ingress button on, then Route mode just tries to level you out (called "Route without Task").
The only other fiddly bits I covered was that as soon as you have the PVI-800 Target Point button on, and a number selected, then on the datalink panel above trying to select a datalink target just changes the icon of your PVI-800 target point - in other words one PVI-800 target point is selected you first have to press the Target Point button to switch it off before you can start selecting a datalink target so that you can ingress to that.
In that section I just also mention that if your PVI-800 is disengaged (just nothing lit up), then the diamond on your heading tape (top of your HUD) is usually the heading you last trimmed at. However with these autopilot modes, like Route mode, you can have it follow a different heading while still showing you your previous trim heading.
If you haven't saved datalink targets yourself - often the case if you're just killing something with a Vikhr the moment you lock it, and you don't have wingmen sending you datalink targets, then you don't have to worry about that bit.
Let me know if this helped in some way.
Volk, thank you for taking the time to reply. I appreciate the in-depth response and it makes things a little clearer. Currently, I don’t play MP, so as you stated, I won’t really have much use for Datalink. I need to get my act together and get on line.
Very informative, overly informative, sooooo much informative....But it kills the attention after 10 minutes...Divide this. Sooo much.
Hehe, hence that caveat of stopping after the first 7-8 minutes. Tried packing everything into this 1 video. I probably will split it up later, but will take some work repacking it differently.
@@volkvoort talk slower, show what you are talking by pressing the button and talking about the button, talk slower, and divide it in 4 videos.. and it will be perfect.
@@keepwalking6041 GOTTA GO FAST!! I have a more beginner-friendly, paced out version planned, but still scripting it out.
I was watching this because I'm interested in learning the KA-50... then I realised I couldn't make heads or tails of what you're speaking about. To me it just sounds like latin for all I know 🤣. I think I'll stick with fixed wing for the moment...
Hehe. The first 7 minutes are what matter. It is the easiest helo to fly, it just has a lot of optional modes to make it easier. So in terms of fixed wing, thing of it as just having the autopilot on as the default, and you're just interupting that momentarily for maneuvers if you want, with the main difference that trim isn't little nudges but setting it as you have the stick, and of course giving power makes it go up rather than faster laterally.
@@volkvoort thanks for the reply. I may still want to learn it soon, it seems very capable and i like how it looks
@@jasonjaafar It definitely is mean looking and equally capable.
How do you deal with trim and AP when you need to dodge incoming missiles or see yourself in a close fight with another helo? I don't see "holding trim" as an option (I need that thumb available!), flight director might be too floaty, and no AP means I'm fighting 2 helicopters now (lol). How do you do it?
Dodging a missile (i.e. I guess just diving behind cover really) while holding trim is easy enough. You could also use the emergency autopilot disengage if you're feeling in control. As for jousting another helo up close - that is genuinely difficult, for any helo. You could use Flight Director them, absolutely, to avoid the corrections - though it doesn't alleviate the strain of needing to use trim to be able to do larger deflections (not an issue unless you use FFB).
If each tip was an oz of water, this amazing fellow would be pouring a huge bucket into your mouth and you just swallow what you can...all the rest has to be mopped up later. I just learned a tremendous amount...and feel like I just gave birth at the same time.
Heh - that's one enlightened baby, congrats. At some point I should revisit this, but from a new Shark user perspective, instead of a everything-about-the-thing-in-minimal-time-waste perspective I had back then.
@@volkvoort I should let you know, after watching this I took my next training flight, and after 1 hour 31 mins I landed after doing the confidence course and not one incident. Your training just helped me pass that course after bombing out entirely 9 times previously. Thank you, brother. Keep doing what you do.
Really great video, thanks but at times I can't tell if you are sounding severe or its just your accent. Are you Danish by any chance?
South African
Your genius is obvious, but ignores the average intellect and ability to absorb information. in this format, it's information overload. You might consider breaking this video into a 10 part series. In each episode, slow down and the student can benefit from your expertise. As is, your students head spins faster than the k-50 rotors, and in opposite directions! Thank you for sharing.
Thanks. Was my first vid, where I primarily wanted to address what people thought the flight director did, and cram in every other bit they might wanna know about how it's flying. And then I edited to save viewer time, but yeah, ended up very condensed. And I've learnt a few extra things on the flight techniques since as well. I'm absolutely intending on revisiting this later, though not sure yet if it'll purely be a zero to hero type thing to get you up & slinging missiles asap, or breaking down this, of which I think 2/3 you don't need to know when you're starting out (well, in the sim, IRL guess they has to know everything).
Great information. I just wish you talked a little slower and gave me time to see what you were doing and with what you were saying a little slower so it has time to register in my brain what you said and did. Other than that Great work. Just really wish you took a little more time so we had time to register what you said. I was lost again from what you said at 3 minutes trying to figure out what you were saying at 4 minutes in..
My Brain Is Melting... Sorry but I got to go I cannot stand trying to keep up with you anymore.
Maybe someday I'll revisit these early ones and split them into multiple "first time in the Shark" stuff, but as-is it's the catch-all-everything of flight controls and method in a hopefully not-timewasting length. If my speech pattern itself here is too fast, maybe try the [Shift
I bet this is an awesome informative video, but you're speaking too fast, at the same time we have to see the buttons in the cockpit and read the text at the bottom.
It's way too much information at the same time.
You need to..... pause... a bit more after each sentence please.
On the text page at 10:11, please use a regular font and colour instead of at outlined font, which is harder to read.
Keep up the good work and I'll just have to watch the video 3-4 times more, to fully understand all of it.
Cheers from a half 🇿🇦🇩🇰 all the way from Denmark.
The font changes up a few videos down the line. This first one I wanted to give the full context of it's flight in one video. Apparently there's a certain stigma to 45 minute tuts existing, so I was a bit ruthless on the edits then - that also changes down the line. *Maybe* someday I'll recreate these and split them up a bit in shorter, less information-dense ones...but will have to see, the trimmer / flight stuff is so interlinked it kinda makes sense as one vid.
very good info
but
you will need to get a new mic, your wordsarerollingintooneanother
Noted, thanks. Think of it as bad rapping ;-)
Ah 64 d or shark ? Which is the best to start with as a noob?
That's a very difficult question. And I suspect this questions's going to build up a looong list of arguments over time.
I'm gonna say Shark. Startup sequence is harder (not automated) and the cockpit layout isn't as intuitive. But after that, just the basics of getting from A to B and putting 30mm or ATGMs on target is easier. Once you start delving in deep, it gets complex though.
Apache has a very automated startup, but past that there's quite a few steps to everything - intuitive stuff, but you gotta do them. Needs a bit more attention to pilot and more to gun. Then again that's also comparing the current state of early access.
Ultimately though, I'd recommend get both, or failing that, just learn the one you're most interested in. There's gonna be a learning curve and practice required.
@@volkvoort thanks. I have now apache and i have first to setup controller write i guess because i get stuck at the tutorial i dont know what button to use" WAS-up left stick" or something. I will buy shark to. Also i would like to controll it woth xbox one conteoller .i am watchin lot of vids on yt...i need so much time to spend omg
Hehe. Yup. There be a learning curve. Purely running gamepad is maybe better than keyboard & mouse, but will be slightly an uphill battle. Maybe check out Tuuvas's channel if you need help setting it up for gamepad ua-cam.com/channels/E51yVGI-AQ_2YhRAIvP6lw.html
@@volkvoort I will check it thanks. Is there no way to download keybinds that already someone made?
@@georgiodavid You can check out the ED user files - there might be some bindings you can import.
Razzle dazzle than a tut you can follow.
First vid, tried to make it the answer to everything. Hardly any razzle dazzle compared to tuts without any substance and all jokes or fx. Slow down the vid to 75%, or watch it piece by piece like I recommended. Or, just go check out the other vids/youtube guides I mention at the end. I don't recall them covering all these details, which is why I made this (to fill in the blanks), but they go at a slower pace, probably better if you've never flown the Shark.
Great video but you go too fast
Yeah, someday I should revisit these first 2-3 super-tuts and break them down into smaller bite-size "beginner series" ones that's a better pace especially if you're completely new.