SHADY $100,000 Super Mario Bros. Sale Exposed
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- Опубліковано 5 вер 2024
- The $100,000 Super Mario Bros. sale that started the sealed game market bubble could have been a sham, according to court documents.
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➡Court Documents here: gofile.io/d/Yg...
Do you think the Super Mario sale qualifies as a "sham"? Or do you think it was normal?
Download court docs ➡gofile.io/d/YgReU4
OG SMB for even $1,000 seems high to me TBH.
100 percent sham no question only crazy people will believe it's worth that much. Even if it was a factory sealed one it'll probably stand out triple-digit that's about it
It was something done to artificially inflate values of a collection and create a craze of people thinking their collections are more valuable than they actually are. I wish the same could be done legally to key people who inflated values in the Pokemon Community too, even those who had interest or stake in PSA. I remember just 10 years ago in 2014 being able to purchase a vintage Wizards of the Coast Base Set or Expedition Booster Box for $650 at most and it took 12-16 years to get to that value. Now in just 10 years (really just in the last 5 years) they were inflated to 5 figures value and are completely out of reach for most people. 😡
Makes no sense.... completely nonsense.
To collect certain items; sure understandable give a person a challenge, a meaning to their life, the feeling of nostalgia....
But a program that's in plastic, in which the program is accessible WORLDWIDE 24/7 is worth so much money that can feed numerous families is hilarious.
It's sad ppl get scam cause of "collection items" and they use their logic and feelings to justify why it's worth stupid $$.
I just find it mind-blowing that a nes game is worth that much....
@@Aragorn7884 and you are right...the game worth 20$ at most.
It seems strange for a group of people to purchase something Ian?!?!?
What about Bart, Martin and Milhouse purchasing Radioactive Man #1!?!?!
Got em!
I’m glad people caught my sarcasm. I was ready to come back to a bunch of “shut the hell up” comments.
Great reporting as always. :)
But look how well that worked out. The issue was destroyed 😢
@@80s_Kid_and_Collectibles They did legitimately help increase the value of it.
These WATA purchases never smelled right at the time but good god were they absolutely blatant with their dishonesty! I can't believe it took this long to surface.
People will buy a PET ROCK. People want to believe.
Great video, Pat! I stand by my original sentiment I made back when this all started. A reputable third party grading company should never, ever, be involved in the sale of an item they grade. This is considered to be a major conflict of interest in the antiques and collectibles trade. It is also extremely unethical and considered to be a form of market manipulation in most cases. In my opinion, the relationship between WATA Games and certain high profile collectors, auctions houses, and other participants in the trade that have a vested financial interest in these items, should also be investigated. I am terribly saddened that some in the video game collecting community still support these unethical practices and defend these actions. Always remember that the end result of any alleged successful market manipulation, is always massive speculation. The speculative bubble that ensued in this market was in my opinion, a direct result of these actions. Making matters worse, the same collectors that originally defended WATA Games and other participants (claiming they did nothing wrong) are the exact same collectors that are now being hurt financially by the falling prices of these items, once the speculative bubble broke. These same collectors fail to realize that due to these potential unjust actions, the video game collecting market is now seen in a very negative light. To those still defending these actions, you are in the wrong; you are wrong, and history will prove you to be wrong. There is no defending this, so regardless how much you like graded video games, please just stop.
Agreed! But no need to feel sorry for the demented dentist or Mad Dog. They deserve all of it😂
Spot on. Only correction I'd made make is that you're referring to them as collectors, while I'd say call them what they are/were: speculators.
Welcome to the graded collectibles market. Your precious CGC and coin grading companies would never have a wrap sheet long enough to stretch across the earth. Of course you would never expose that cuz you are invested in that boomer stuff. Coins are dead and will soon go back to sinking like the Titanic. Have a great weekend
@@larrycopeland3517 I don't defend any company when they engage in this. That said, coins are currently up 10% to 20% while the graded video game market is down exponentially, so you don't know what you are talking about here, but then again, I don't think you understand speculation or market manipulation either. And unfortunately for you, facts don't care about your feelings.
@@hrwise89 You're definitely not wrong!
Wata should've played Wall Street Kid. Then they would have known that insider trading is illegal. Too late now.
This is a great comment! LOL!
I don't think any of those people ever bought a video game with the intent of ever playing it. Therein lies the problem, I suppose.
I’m just patiently waiting for Mad Dog Collections to explain why none of this is shady🙃
I'm waiting for that breakdown
You think he's in on it???😯
@@MasterZebulin As in he facilitated the shady transactions in the video? Nah. Those guys were criminal/greedy.
He just has a shameless bias (cognitive dissonance?) due to how heavily invested he is in slabbed games.
@@justsayin4632 I think his bias is mighty suspicious. 🤔
@@MasterZebulin He's sold like two things from his game collection and they don't even make a dent compared to the world class collection of other stuff he has. He buys them because he loves them, not because he needs, or cares, to invest in them.
I'm surprised that those shady looking grifters turned out to be scam artists!
I think back when this all started I "speculated" that most of the high auction prices were just collectors passing the games back and forth. I never expected they'd have the balls to NOT EVEN SELL THE GAME IN THE FIRST PLACE like with that 100K Mario
My cherished childhood memories don't need to live in an acrylic box with a foil sticker on it.
Download the game and play it....
@@panagiotischristo **GASP**
@@panagiotischristo that's it. Embrace the forced change!
Yeah, no thanks.
If you're getting games graded you could probably afford a play copy tbh
What a stupid comment. I love how the anti graders pretend that ROM carts don’t exist or emulation doesn’t exist.
And no “news outlet” has any update on this since May 2022…. Unreal
It's interesting that all these other collector markets paralleled each other before 2020, all seeing 'pumps' from (buyers groups). Same exact thing happened in sports cards - and other markets, of course.
This and sports cards went totally insane 😮
Whenever I walk by a WATA and/or HA booth at a convention, I have to restrain myself from flipping them the bird. What a bunch of grifters.
I would blame the conventions allowing these organizations (wata and whatever) to be invited/enter.
Let the bird fly. I am sure they would appreciate the feedback of how welcome they are their
Say hi to Brett Weiss when you do. Slimy crypt keeper is a HA shill now after the amico shilling went nowhere.
@@panagiotischristo Because censorship is the answer to things I don't like.
@@MeatKowalskifraud is not protected speech.
Meanwhile, I'm still enjoying my NON-GRADED sealed copy of Dragon Quest III that I bought last year for $30.
is it still sealed?
Yes, I have it sitting on a shelf that I refer to as my "Dragon Quest Shrine". I have copies of all the main numbered games, all in playable condition. The sealed copy is just a bonus for display.
How are you enjoying it if it’s sealed? Legit wondering
@@Jones25ful it's the feeling of owning it and being able to state it as fact. Or at least that's what I think. It's not a fact that's going to impress most ladies though.
why are you pretending rom carts don't exist? legit wondering@@Jones25ful
As they say, "There's a sucker born every minute".
Capitalism requires that a sucker be born every minute.
Trying to make a collectable market when the public has no interest will inevitably lead to fraud.
Great video Pat. As a game collector this whole thing has been so painful. Thank you for your thoughtful insight.
So basically all the suckers that took the bait and insulted Pat instead of listening to him are now trying to sue to get some momey back? Lol
I’ve always thought that this graded games racket was a sucker trap, but thanks for staying on top of it Pat & Ian. 🏆
When Lawyers and the people paying them get involved this stuff can take incredibly long periods of time to filter through the legal system, and most observers lose interest way before that. ⏳⏳⌛️💸💸💸
I remember hearing about this when it happend, it stunk from the beginning . Sad part is if the market had blown up with six figure sales this might have been forgotten. Kudos on calling out the BS from the start guys.
This is my surprised face 😑
Going full Jobst, friend of the channel.
I might be more likely to join Scientology than buy a slabbed game in this day and age.
Take a 🥃 every time you hear the word "allegedly" 🥴
Lol...
I mean if they don’t say allegedly It can potentially open them up for litigation since it could be interpreted as slander. Hopefully everyone is alive post shots 😂 😅
I died....... but i did get better.
@@Beoslasherthank you. Aragorn is clearly 16 or something, because anyone with any court \ legal experience in ANY form understands what you just said.
But hey! Don't let the obvious get in the way of what is supposed to be a funny joke.
34 readers agreed that it is funny because they don't know anything about the law. We'll see how funny *that* is the next time they get bopped in court by a crooked Murtaugh who tells them they have to agree to an illegal search during a traffic ticket. Whoops! I guess they shoulda learned the *first* thing about legal proceedings.
Maybe they'll buy *my* Super Mario cartridge for only $90k
Dunces.
it’s called being an ethical and responsible adult, and also protect you from civil liability.
>was he on the advisory board?
>no
>did he hold any other positions?
>yes, he was chief advisor
hahaha this is hilarious
These people should be in jail and their assets seized but who we kidding? That ain’t gonna happen and they’ll get away with it
Rich people that steal from the poor don't go to jail.
Who was the victim?
You wanna know what's sad? More than one person involved in this did do jail time for fraud back in the 90s over a coin grading scam.
Rick Harrison - "Wata is the company that grades these. These are the ones you can trust."
Got a PSA email talking about graded DVDs/Blurays yesterday
I friggin loved this on the audio podcast. Lookin forward to some Pat-rage this afternoon
@@neoturfmasterMVS "Nothing else going on." Yet here you are, Mr. Family Man.
There was an entire (now going out business) industry that evolved around "fractionally" selling collectibles under a similar guise (retained ownership). I wonder what this might mean for those businesses down the line (investors on those platforms were destroyed)
i have a similar level of contempt for card grading. im perfectly capable of deciding if a card is "lightly played" or "near mint" with my own eyeballs. i really don't need someone else to certify that a card is a 10/10 or whatever
I'm glad these WATA scumbags are being taken down. The $100k Mario never made any sense. One of the most popular, best-selling NES games... for $100k sealed? I don't think so. Heck, I wouldn't even put it past them to have faked the shrink wrap.
gloss sticker games are not shrink wrapped. BUT I wouldnt be surprised if they put glue on the sticker. I sold my gloss cib mario at the height of the boom for the now record price that will NEVER be beaten again. I think if it came back for sale, maybe $5-8k.
Why is anyone still giving these guys any money? Or VGA for that matter? My first impressions of these companies was that they were just silly, mostly harmless organization selling a bit of fun to insecure game collectors needing someone to tell them exactly how wonderful their sealed videogame is. But as time goes on they seem much more sinister than I first imagined.
it could be worse on a PAWN Stars episode 1 guy wanted to sell this same game with a the same 9.4 grade for 1 MILLION dollars but Rick declined to make ANY offer.
he offered 10 dollars lol
and guess who they got in! Dennis Khan. And that same one was the one that sold for 1.5 Million....
Slithering snakes, wow. Jim Halperin was let off with a slap on the wrist back in the 80s for inflating coins.
The Consistently Accurate Podcast
This whole situation is mind-boggling. Thank you for this coverage, great video sir
Man I thought this was an old video, I thought this started when I was in HS lmao
There is a new news article floating around about Zelda holy grail item and heritage auctions asking the seller to come down to Florida.
Should of sold Feb 22-24 2024
It's worth noting Deniz was recently canned from Collectors Universe. Had this not happened, all this may not have come out, but he could also be pissed off and exaggerating the details here to get everyone in deeper trouble. Just something to keep in mind.
I really LOVE your conclusion "just a bunch of rich collectors trying to make themselves richer". It's clearly what happened with all this wata-sh*t (and graded games in general)
that is literally how the art market has worked for decades
you all know nothing is going to happen to wata. they still gonna be grading an absurd amount of games.
The thing that always got me is that these things where bought as investments. I paid a hundred thousand dollars for a single dirt common game and expect it to be worth more in the future. Meanwhile, where was this money for the truly one of a kind Nintendo Playstation made a similar amount of money and I am sure that if that went to auction again would make more this time around.
The question I have now is: how many other people are doing this sort of thing? Okay, not everyone has their own auction company, but there are some seriously messed-up prices (and scalpers too) on these things. Funnily enough, it seems some retro game prices have started to normalise, but certain games still haven't (look at Pokemon or old Mario games - the same games that have far more supply than any other on the market).
I love how wata didn’t even have to do this. They had a decent looking business model initially, and sleek, good looking packaging. They would have had a multimillion dollar empire had they just done what they set out to do🙃
I want to like this video 60 times, thanks for speaking up for all the real collectors out here.
Point proved. Imagine the manufacturing of the stock market.. easier to do when no one pays attention to the physical trade in a larger market.
bronty, now that's a name I've not heard in a long time. I really disliked the sealed game and prototype cult over on NintendoAge.
And they bought out Dain's collection and Nintendoage
Nintendo Age more like Nintendo Lame 😮 am I right
Thanks for updating. I enjoy ya'lls work and passion.
did you guys see the zelda sale on heritage yesterday for almost 300.000 USD?
300,000$ or 300.00$?....
And for what!?....are ppl that sad?...you have Ian and Pat making fun of ppl who involve themselves with nft and how is these games any different....cause it's tangible?
Zelda game is everywhere.
@@panagiotischristo 300k USD, i am impressed that these still sell for such amounts.
i am surprised you paid that much lol
And now (or has been for awhile) this is happening with VHS tapes. How long until blu ray and 4K?
btw it is also happening to vinyl records now.
Here is my issue with the pricing of these in general before we even get into the obvious insider trading here: Anyone born in the 80s who was a teen in the 90s will understand this, but, for context it wasn't like today where you have xbox or playstation and PC. In the 90s at any point the smallest number of systems that were actively making games at any one point was probably 4, and in the mid 90s I think it was 6 or 7, maybe more...but...to everyones aunt and uncle, parent, grandparent no matter what you owned, you had a Nintendo, and every kid who was a gamer had at least one Christmas or birthday where they got a game for a system they didn't own. I don't care if someone has a complete in box never opened Mario 2 or 3, you can't price it like its the last one of its kind when we all know there have to be at minimum 20 of these that just got tucked away in basements or attics and will eventually surface and make these $100k price points dop to far more realistic $1k price points. And this is assuming that some dentist office that used to be a electronics store doesn't have a entire box of sealed Mario 3's in the back storage, which I think is more likely then not. This isn't coins or baseball cards we don't have true population reports on video game carts, it was stupid to ever price them like this or think they would hold their value
As soon as Pat said "Ian" I thought Pat was going follow it with "We have a scumbag".
I don’t collect video games but been subbed to you guys for years. I collect comics and somewhat the genres cross over. Anyway, we have a range of grading companies but the main one being CGC. They are always in and out of deep water for similar things as Wada…shady activity. Any hobby that has a financial value will attract bad characters who ruin it for everyone
They will get a fine, slap on the wrist, and everyone will go away "shamed" and filthy rich.
Was this the Super Mario that was on pawn stars?
IIRC, yes it was.
I’ve believed this has occurred for years at heritage. They have a division that auctions lab equipment. I’ve seen the exact same equipment sell multiple times on heritage, each time for multiple thousands of dollars, and each subsequent time less than previous. It seemed to me heritage was pumping up the auction prices and if they didn’t get a real bidder at a high price, they will just reauction it a month later. Sounds like something very similar happening with their video game auctions.
This happens with all of the big auction houses and every big grading company for all collectibles.
@@Robert-nu4vc It doesn’t surprise me!
Thanks for continuing to cover this story. What you are doing here, and Reserved Investments, is documenting something the legacy media is ignoring, except for the endless 'do you have treasure in your house' ad articles.
I should of sold my sealed skies of Arcadia legends when these games were going for big bucks
i fucking love this show
HA was at Too Many Games last year with WATA games everywhere. Their logo was on everyone's lanyards, I refused to wear it and bought my own. I wish more convenient guests push to get rid of these guys.
Oh, no, obvious scam turns out to be scam.
I remember seeing a lot of this stuff at the time thinking this seems like such a scam. Is wild cause it pumped up so much of the retro market even the none graded stuff so people just wanting to play old games
I love all the "allegedly", now I need more 'Pat math'
Thanks Pat. You seem to be the only one covering and exposing them.
And now Kenneth is the Director of video game grading at CGC....hmmmm
Yes, this game is not worth $100k. Why are you two so concerned about graded game values (other than for clicks)? Don't like it, don't buy them. That's how free markets work. I love how Pat forgets to mention that he was also on Pawn Stars trying to sell two NES carts for a shit load of money. A tad hypocritical. Oh, and Ian, you really want there to be laws for not releasing a finished movie? What is your justification for that horrible take?
Pat seems to try to gatekeep the entire sealed games market. Presumably because he believes that only specific items such as the NWC carts should have any significant value (because that's what he owns). In contrast, he believes sealed early print first party key NES titles shouldn't be worth a fraction of what they sell for. He is also A-OK with Heritage Auctions whenever an NWC cart is involved, and has quoted sales prices of NWC carts from their site before to support his values for them.
@@blarky I wonder if he is going to complain in 50 years when the majority of sealed NES games/carts aren't worth anything because most of the people in the hobby have moved on or passed away? Maybe an encore appearance on Pawn Stars?
There IS NO such thing as a free market. Stories like this one prove it. These sales exist as nothing but intentional market manipulation by whales.
@@blarky NWC carts have been coveted by video game collectors the 90s, and have always garnered a high value without these sort of practices. These items have a historic record of high sales for decades. That's why I am "A-OK" with the prices they get in auctions and private sales, because they are far more trustworthy of a track record than a game worth 1K one year being worth $1 million two years later.
@@MeatKowalski 50 years from now we'll all be retired, dead, or in cryo-stasis.
Great video. Really breaks down the deposition for a not so smart guy like me.
I wish you’d both come back weekly. I so miss this podcast weekly.
Please keep covering this case. This behavior is horrible.
thanks for doing actual gaming journalism
The sad part is, no matter how much the WATA, CGC and VGA bozos get exposed, the greedy lemmings and sheep will continue to send in games to be graded thus F’ING up the hobby for the genuine collectors and fans who truly appreciate it even further.
How does it F-up the hobby?Please explain.
@@MeatKowalski do your own research meat
@@peanutmansemporiumofrandom7472 Answer the question. You made the comment, I am asking you to explain. How does grading a game F it up for others?
This is why I feel that WATA graded games aren't worth the plastic they're encased in. You'd have to pay ME to accept a WATA graded game in my collection.
Also, as for "maintaining an interest" in an item you sell...are you KIDDING me? Hey Pat, I wanna sell you my PS5 Slim Disc edition for $450. But I still want to keep it at my place and play on it anytime I want to. How's that sound?
If full ownership was never given over, then there was no sale. This whole bubble started because of a scam, and when the scammers got exposed, they panicked and tried blowing up the bubble more to cash out before it burst. And now, if the bubble hasn't burst on this aspect of game collecting, it's close to that point. A guilty verdict or some kind of plea deal...ANYTHING other than an (unlikely) full not guilty verdict in favor of WATA and the graded game market bubble is blown.
Froggy Flips? Is that you on the left?
where theres money theres corruption
Great video. Thanks for bringing all this to our attention.
This whole thing just makes me sick. Can't really think if any other words right now for it.
Thank you for exposing this trash company.
thanks for the update! You called it
I still dont get why so many collectors still buy wata graded games. I personally would not want to support these types of people ever. It seems like everyone just forgot about this.
I'm a collector and a gamer. I have ONE game that is brand new sealed. It's Shaq Fu on the Genesis. All my other games, some 2000+, are available to play at a moments notice.
I know it won’t happen but I want WATA completely shuttered and completely delegitimized.
Karl jobs thanks
The graded sports cards is the same thing.
Someone needs to go to jail
Do you feel weird being on Pawn Stars for the NWC cart and so was Dennis Kahn about the Mario Cart?
So Pat now what? This completely screwed up the market as a collector who do you trust? I mean I personally I dont have any graded games. I sold all my sealed stuff years ago, But I would love to get an honest answer as to how much my NES Test Station is worth. Another thing what about company's like this Limited Run Games for example theres others like limited run I just cant think of right now but limited how how many in each print of individual games ? That should determine prices how many made . How does one find out how many limited run switch games were in the print for each individual game. I really want to acquire all blk box games in CIb/or/SIb form but how do I know Im not over paying for them. I mean I have most of them loose but I would really like to start going for a lot of NES Cib's of loose carts i already have but Im scared.
An item is only worth what you’re willing to pay for it🤷🏻♂️ Using that metric, it’s impossible to “overpay”.
Collecting is collecting, and people are willing to shell out what they are comfortable to. If you think its too expensive, you can always haggle the price. For LRG and other companies that make a limited # of physical releases of specific titles, you can look up their print run, easy enough for that. Heck, it might even be listed on wikipedia for the numbered LRG titles.
There's another company that does it that puts the #/# on the back of the jacket (can't recall the company at the moment and not searching through my collection to find out). That makes it easier of course, but remember that once a game gets pricey enough, some unknown party will also make a fake copy and sell it online. It wouldn't be difficult to buy a Switch case, print out an official looking cover sleeve and a cartridge holding that game in it as well.
🎯 Key Takeaways for quick navigation:
00:01 🕵️♂️ *Background on Wata Games and the $100,000 Super Mario Bros. Sale*
- Discussion on the ongoing class action lawsuit against Wata Games.
- Recounting the timeline of events surrounding the $100,000 sale of a Super Mario Bros. game.
- Analysis of the initial reactions and suspicions regarding the sale.
03:02 💡 *Unveiling Ethical Issues and Manipulative Practices*
- Revelation of ethical dilemmas and conflicts of interest involving key figures in the sale.
- Analysis of how the sale was orchestrated to inflate the retro video game market.
- Explanation of the significance of undisclosed information about the sale.
05:18 📉 *Impact on Retro Video Game Market and Legal Ramifications*
- Examination of the legal arguments presented in the class action lawsuit.
- Discussion on the alleged fraudulent practices and their consequences.
- Analysis of the implications of the lawsuit on the retro video game collecting community.
19:22 🎮 *Potential Million Dollar Video Game Sale*
- Speculation about the possibility of a million-dollar video game sale.
- Dan Moresca's interview discussing the potential risks and profits of selling the game.
- Public identification of one of the buyers, Richard Lei, on Pawn Stars claiming a $1 million price tag.
21:27 💰 *Market Manipulation and Demand Surge*
- Manufactured $100,000 sale of Super Mario Bros. game and subsequent price surge.
- Increased demand for game grading services and inflated prices through Heritage auctions.
- Discussion on the negative impact of market manipulation on organic growth and valuation of video games.
24:42 🕵️♂️ *Role of Dan Moresca in Game Sales*
- Dan Moresca's involvement in selling games to Eric Nyman's investing group.
- Revelation of Moresca's profit-making and engineering of game sales behind the scenes.
- Call for more recognition of Moresca's role in the manipulation of the game market.
27:42 📰 *Call for Accountability and Reporting*
- Criticism towards media outlets for false reporting and lack of full disclosure.
- Call for journalists to issue retractions or updates regarding manipulated game sales.
- Mention of Mark Haspel's involvement and the role of Water employees in game grading and sales.
Made with HARPA AI
Holy s*** what happened to Ian he literally looks like he's giving side quests
Herritage Auctions and Wata Games Controversy?!?!? Again? SHOCKED! SHOCKED! well not that shocked.
I would have got away with it too… if it weren’t for you meddling gamers!
I loved him in the cartoons, the figure looks awesome. The attention to detail is amazing.
Isnt this old news?
Ian "I'll talk about WATA if you want, but I'm just over it for the last 4 years" Ferguson
Did you missed the word "Sales" in the thumbnail?
Reminds me that someone ought to look into some of the bullfuckery regarding even Reserve List Magic the Gathering cards, so many of the same red flags, warning signals echo in my head when I think back t othat.
Ian looks like a weed head young version of Gandalf....
Can't wait for stuff about that Mario 64 copy ;p
I just saw an article about a sticker sealed Zelda NES going for $700,000...i wonder if this is another Wata situation
this is why cgc grading step in for better grading and authorize
CGC is knee deep in a bunch of scandals right this moment.
@@jbbrolicyeah but their better also it because someone didn't want to do their job and keep things in order when getting the shipment from people who wanted their comic books graded. it been handle and fix.
@@djexotic07 for selling... Sure use CGC... Use whoever (just because grading massively boosts prices people will pay..) I wouldn't BUY CGC graded items at this juncture however.
It's alot of BS
Deniz Conman
I kept preaching since the beginning that them individuals we're dirty even I didnt know the extent of how bad the situation really was? Yet it didnt surprise me they got away with this that long because gamers are the most easily manipulated people on this planet. It was just another reason why Wata got away with it that long because many of gamers and resellers thought Wata are great for the retro gaming community! Now the truth is all coming out thanks to the help from Pat, Ian, and Karl Jobst 🙂
I haven’t seen a new punk video in a while.. when did Ian become homeless?