Alia Atreides: Understanding An Abomination | Dune Explained
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- Опубліковано 30 тра 2024
- In-depth analysis of Alia Atreides, also known as Saint Alia of the Knife and the Womb of Heaven. She is the sister of Paul Muad'dib Atreides.
Like many characters in Dune, Alia’s story is a tragedy - maybe the most tragic one. Hers is a story about a woman predestined to destroy herself. Alia is an abomination and to really understand Alia and her suffering, we need to understand what it means to be an Abomination.
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I think Alia is one of the under appreciated and under developed characters in Dune.
There is a MAX series in the cards this fall, but it's a prequel inspired by something written by the son of Frank Herbert, rather than by "Children of Dune".
I disagree about under development, it's just development that most people can't understand even on their 5th reading. She gets a boat load of development in the books, and we even see her inner mind's workings a lot. Unless you're talking about in the most recent film, which obviously has her not born yet.
I feel the exact same way, she doesn't get a lot of love. I wish she could live and get the love she deserved. Leto and Ghanima are also preborns but they had each other so they didnt fall into abomination but Alia had no one.
Worse, leto and ghanima could have called their mom for help much earlier, but they chose to let alia fall further under the baron's influence (only other way out of that loneliness), probably to justify seizing the throne from her.
The movie version however, comes off as a much darker person to start with
Her mother deserts her.
I hate Jessica for what she'd done to Alia. Afterwards, she didn't even care for her.
The Bene Gesserit conditioning was too strong, she partially overcame it for Leto and Paul, whit Leto dead and Paul Emperor she returned to the sisterhood, no much of a mother then.
Didn't she admit she feared her and that's why she ran. Because she knew what she'd done to her and couldn't face it.
I dislike Jessicas character completely
I just hate Jessica in general
Why not?
7:24 "They revered her, feared her even prayed to her, but no one really knew her... " I really love this. Good piece of writing!
Jessica felt bad at the end of the book because she realized after seeing Leto II and Ghanima who also were abominations were able to overcome them. She felt she could have saved Alia if she didn’t isolate her.
Alia was done so dirty. She needed love and support, and she had none.
Wow I’ve never heard her told with so much empathy and thought. She truly is a tragic character.
Alia and her predicament, makes me consider myself in a new light, what if somewhere in the future one of my descendants developed the ability to connect with their ancestors, including me? I fear the idea that I could be plague upon those I love who are not yet born, with all of my own insecurities, ambitions and old hates. The mere possibility makes me want to be a better person inside, not just what I present to the world, that perhaps finding balance in myself affects more than just me. It puts a new spin on your legacy.
what a beautiful thought
@@nadanah183 Thanks, always cool to hear from a kindred thinker. Beauty makes thoughts worthwhile I think.
I’m hoping that Villeneuve can incorporate a lot of this in his Dune Part 3, even though most of this happens in Children and not in Messiah.
I really don't know how he will manage to adapt those books...
I know Villeneuve's said he doesn't plan to do an adaptation of "Children of Dune" (where Alia's full tragic arc plays out) after he's completed "Dune Messiah", but if he changes his mind, I have NO doubt - based on his filmography - that he could get an Oscar-winning performance out of Anya Taylor-Joy here.
There are elements of Alia's "Greek tragedy" arc in his "Incendies", of duelling psyches in "Enemy", of "lost souls" in "Sicario" as well as nuanced, thought-provoking but also gut-wrenching treatments of key characters throughout his films...
We'll see after we collectively gauge the reaction to "Messiah"...
@@PeloquinDavid I think Children of Dune gonna be TV series or smthing.
@@PeloquinDavid Tbh I don't see how he could adapt Leto II arc for a mainstream audience.
What was done to Alia puts Jessica on the Big Botch list.
If Abomination is such a bad thing no doubt Jessica having been educated by the BG should have already known what could happen to her and her child before she took the water of life.
She was willing to sacrifice Alia to assure Paul and her own place among the Fremen. Alia was more likely to die than survive as abomination. Remember, Alia was the pregnancy ordered by the BG rather than Paul.
You make me sad as if she was a real person. That was an amazing, poignant video. Well done.
Glad you enjoyed it
She's obviously both, that's literally how she was written on purpose. Leto II as well. Arguably Paul also, and many others in the stories.
I felt the sadness throughout her journey while reading. Thank you for explaining it beautifully.
Jessica was really to blame here. She should have never left Alia on Arrakis with Paul. Instead, she should have taken her to Caladan and helped her to control her Other Memory. Paul's imperial court just had too much intrigue and Alia felt too pressured to be able to handle it, especially after Paul walked into the desert. Her heavy use of the Spice to try to attain Kwisatz Haderach level prescience didn't help either. This wouldn't have been a problem if she had been given peace and training.
She should never have taken the water of life while pregnant, she knew the exact consequences of it and yet she chose to sacrifice her own daughter. And i personaly think she was also wrong for chosing to have a son (paul) instead of a girl as she was supposed to. Overall jessica was a selfish person
@@ikram-258 - It parallels the bad decisions that Paul also made. Jessica underwent the Spice Agony to ensure her and Paul's place among the Fremen by becoming their Reverend Mother. Just as Paul would repeat the act in order to become their Mahdi. All of this was to get revenge on the Emperor and the Landsraad. Alia was sacrificed on the altar of politics.
@@ikram-258 Jessica had Paul out of love for Leto (giving him what he desired) not out of selfishness. I think she, too, desired revenge for what happened to the man she loved, though she wouldn't let herself say it out loud. When Paul showed his desire for revenge, Jessica did everything she could to help him attain it, so she could enjoy it vicariously through him, but after taking the Water of Life, both Paul and Jessica were no longer the people they were before.
best Alia video on youtube! Thank you for making this. (I never find such a video about Alia on YT)
Really enjoying your videos. Thx ❤🎉
Please don't give your fetus mind-bending substances
wake up babe mr valaritas dropped another bangerrrr!!
I love your commentary! The way you commentate is so engaging!
This was a fascinating character study, well done. I’d totally forgotten how creepy Alia was in the 80s version, and how tragic she was in the miniseries
The background song in your videos is tickling the edge of my memory...a haunting tune, but I can't place what game or soundtrack I remember it from.
Your videos a really well done and the narration is superb. ❤
Hey, thanks a lot!
Honestly this is a pretty damn good video. Well done!
What I don't get is Alia's exclusion in the films. I mean, she's a HUGE part of the first book! Starting from Part Two of Dune she's alive (4 years old, if I'm not mistaken, given that she's sixteen in Messiah).
Exquisite video!
I'm really liking your videos
thank you! very cool
Looking forward to learning why Jessica took Water of Life when she knew she was pregnant. Was there no possibility of waiting until Alia was born? I am aware of the general outlines of the plot but haven't read the books yet. They are on the list, though!
Also I happen to rather like Daniela Amavia's performance in the miniseries.
I wonder if Jessica could have said something. In the books, there isn't much time for Jessica to get her sea legs before she is forced into becoming a Reverand Mother.
@@angellover02171 It doesn't really matter what Jessica wanted, as she is just a written character. What matters is Frank Herbert chose her character do take those actions in furtherance of his novel's plot. She couldn't act any other way than how he wrote her. Lots of people in the novels are forced into action by other events; it's kind of what drives plots in good books.
I thought only a male has access to the memories of every ancestor (quizats haderach). And females only the female acenstors. Technically Alia should not be having the memories of Baron Harkonnen, no?
I also wonder this
Yeah I think this is because she is an abomination
Alia was preborn, and probably has similar genetics to that of Paul, which should give her powers of a Kwisatz Haderach.
@@haihuynh8772 hmm, not so sure. I understand, that she had endured difficult circumstances at birth and before birth, but if that would have been explicitly mentioned in the book, it would have been convincing :)
She is a preborn which is diffrent from your regular bene gesserit
There was no Alia. She was born with all her anscestors memories before having any of her own. She was an empty shell for a dominant personality to take.
Nice video !
Great job I was really disappointed Alia was missing from the films.
Wow, nice one bro.
Awesome vidéos.
And why is your pseudonym Valaritas, like the word written on the door in Kingkiller ?!? :o
huge fan of Kingkiller ;)
@@ValaritasYT it's my favorite series :D
I'm new to the book and just recently finished the first 3 of the whole series. My biggest question to Alia's demise was: why the hell she went mad all of a sudden in book 3? I saw no sign of her losing control to her inner selves or going insane in the first 2 books at all. I didn't even understand why Benes call her an abomination and fear it so much, at least I didn't see a clear and strong reason in the first 2 books.
Because she has lost hope that her family would be there for her and was willingly surrendering to the voices as they were the only source of comfort possible
Why didn’t her mother tell the old witches no I can’t drink the water of life, I’m pregnant
Alia was both victim and villian. Poor girl. It was nothing that she wanted but she couldn't escape. She, her mother the Lady Jessica, Chani and Ghanima were all victims of other people's greed. They were so strong and intelligent, but Frank Herbert doesn't fully develop them. They were all pivotal to Maud Dib's becoming the emperor.
wow, I definitely should watch Children of Dune...
Reading it (or listening to the audiobook) might be better, though the TV miniseries by that name from about 20 years ago is a pretty faithful adaptation of both "Dune Messiah" and "Children of Dune" (albeit with inevitably much lower production values than Villeneuve's two films, thus far...)
Any credits for the Artists you used? I'd like to check out their stuff.
As every photo is rolled out the credit is at the bottom and then it fades
What is this music? Thank you!
Jon Sumner - Desert Winds
A sad tragedy poor Alia she just wanted love before she lost her mind and control.
What a video🎉🎉
Idk how Lady Jessica can live with herself after all she's done. I guess she was another poor soul that needed to be sacrificed to achieve The Golden Path, but goddayum man lol. Imagine seeing your son turn from Paul into whatever the hell he was at the end, depressed as f***. Then everything that happened to Alia and Jessica watching her final moments - which I can only imagine being one of the most disturbing things someone can see - and then jumping out. Sheesh.
She's one of my favorite characters
The changes in the new Dune movie(s) I feel give more agency to Chani and Irulan I look forward to part 3
Tragic character. Used by others, including her own family. She didn't ask for or deserve what happened to her.
Mr Valaritas, you will be huge one day!
Imagine that your child is born with all the memories of their forebearers. Every plan, scheme, Gom Jabbar et al just present in their little mind from birth. All the memories of all previous Reverend Mothers before. It’s a wonder that Alia is coherent at all
All villains are victims anyway. There's no such thing as evil. The causes of evil are the same as your car dying on the road. It's always because individuals are damaged, or innately defective...or both.
Evil is absolutely always the result of systems having failed for some reason, or having developed incorrectly.
And emotion is always one of those flaws. More importantly, all the depictions of "cold logic" in all media are always anything BUT logical in any way. "Cold-blooded" doesn't even mean "unemotional" to begin with. Everything everyone believes is completely wrong.
She is my favorite character
Lore of Alia Atreides: Understanding An Abomination | Dune Explained momentum 100
She was a victim. The whole reason the Bene Gesserit hated abominations is because of what happened to her. Jessica was cruel for what she did and I've never really seen a satisfactory answer for it.
Dam, Alia Atriedes, sounds like a real Greek tragedy.
💔💔💔💔💔💔💔💔💔💔💔
Alia is a victim. She loves her family but she is haunted by the legacy of the Benne Gesserit and the spirit of Vladimir Harkonnen
The real villain's name is Paul.
Yes but in my opinion the author doesnt do a great job portraying hin the way he intended to be . Maybe its because of the german translation i read idk.
Was it too late for Alia to try the hypno-trance that protected Ghanima from the horde? Perhaps she was too old by then.
😢
She WAS a victim. Now that her entire personality has ben overwritten by centuries of memories from Reverend Mothers she is a villian.She perpetrated the holy war just as much as her mother did in this movie.
She got harkonnen curse.
She’s a million percent a victim from birth she was dealt a bad hand
Yes.
Not knowing who she is IS who she is. Did she commit suicide, or did she kill the ancestor who was taking her over? THAT is NOT suicide. None of us know who we are truly, but we can always know who we are not.
I’m gonna say it. Jessica was the real villain in Dune. If she had JUST had the daughter she was supposed to have, all the stuff in the Dune series would have been avoided.
Even in the new movies, she is a manipulative narcissist.
She's a definite villain, but not a narcissist. She didn't start as a villain, and her journey into villainy is interesting. She loved Leto, and a narcissist can't truly love someone more than themselves. She was a lot more timid before the Atreides were wiped out, and I think she was driven by revenge just as much as Paul, and after drinking the Water of Life she knew how to gain revenge--raise Paul up to Emperor. Everyone else suffered for it, including Paul and Alia.
If you have read the books….she is both.
In part 2 why she's still in the womb tho?
Not a bad choice I guess...
Cowardice
DV chose to skip the 2-4 years between her birth and the final events on Arakis.
Dennis’s adaptation could set things differently so it is questionable whether She shall fall the same fate as in the books.
Most probably to spare us from a CGI toddler or (technically too old) child actor. It's difficult to do that well. There are a lot of bad examples.
You can either have a scary villain or a sympathetic villain. People who liked Dune because its villains were obviously villains aren't going to like the sequel.
she will be inthe third movie with duncan idaho double
Come on
She lost control and dear great granddaddy took over , more or less
So why did Paul was called abomination if he drank that blue thing as an adult?
Reverend Mother Mohiam called him that in the movie, but in the book it was Alia who was called that, as a child changed by the Water of Life in utero. In the movie she called Paul that out of spite because he was the Kwisatz Haderach but she couldn't control him.
@@rikk319 ohhhhh I see. Thx for the answer!
or neither.
Honestly I think you're more sympathetic to her than the author, and he framed it more as just a natural and inevitable end in a way that just didn't ring true to me at all. One of my biggest problems with the book tbh, which I think is the worst written of the first four that I've read. Maybe Herbert just has problems not overly focalising the narrative and judgments that derive from it on one or two characters though.
I loved her, thought she was a bad ass!
Furiosa！
Glad we can all agree that those who are most vulnerable, are those in their own mother’s womb.
She was preborn, not her fault, so victim
Alia was a victim
Both
She’s a victim.
Alia : *Ah Lee Yah*
waifu
Seriously? Sympathetic or not, the girl was psychotic
good video but its a-LEE-a. not AL-ee-a
Within few mins you have Admitted that By what Villeneuve had done in part 2 F### up Seriously Bad and most Forgive Villeneuve (not me)
Villain. Unfortunately. Immensely Tragic.