I Regret Going To Law School at Chapman Fowler School of Law - I Lost My Conditional Scholarship
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- Опубліковано 18 чер 2024
- I’m sharing my experience of losing my conditional scholarship. This video represents my opinion and personal experience with Chapman University Fowler school of law.
It’s not meant to discourage or persuade anyone from attending law school.
I also want to add that i reached out to the dean of students and the dean of the law school to ask for a second appeal and was told in a very brash way no. They said that if I was having difficulties paying for law school that I should look for a job.
I failed 3 times, i lost money to reviews that never helped but the major thing is that I've not lost hope
Passing the LSAT is when you study hard,if you can't study or you don't have time for your studies I'd advise you get yourself help like Mr Thomas
I had interest in working with him but I was discouraged by my friends out of ignorance 😔
I have a cousin who never studied much,we studied together but she gives most of her time to her phone than studies after writing the LSAT test she passed and I failed😣, I asked her how she did it, just found out she got her help from Mr Thomas ..
Sometimes hard work doesn’t pay you have to back it up with smartness🤓, I think your cousin understood that perfectly
Please does anyone know who this Mr Thomas is? I really need to speak with him I’m frustrated.
girl this randomly came up on my algorithm but you are very compelling!! we NEED more people like you speaking up in this predatory industry. you're doing the right thing!!!! keep spreading the word!!!!
Thank you
Hey, this is an incredibly hard thing to share. Thank you so much for sharing your story and helping other folks in your potential situation.
Thank you
Law schools are for profit businesses. Law school staff, faculty, Deans, Admissions Officers and folks who work for the Career Services Offices lie their a__es off all the time to lure in students and get those sweet, sweet student loan dollars. Many law school students are not seen as "students" at all, but rather as "student-loan-conduits". The money flows from the government, as "student loans", through to student, and into the coffers of the law school. Law schools will pitch people with all sorts of nonsense: come see our amazing International Law Program, or study Sports Law, or perhaps even Space Law! I have been practicing law for over a quarter century--haven't met a Space Lawyer yet. Or someone who works full time in "International Law". As for "Sports Law" people watched that silly Tom Cruise movie "Show me the money!" and convinced themselves that they too could go law school, become a "Sports Agent" and make big bucks while chilling with LeBron James! These folks end up working at Starbucks. Use your common sense and avoid Law School like the plague.
@@echoingamyI don’t blame you at all for being duped by this university’s scholarship system! It is purposely predatory!!
@@stuff1784 Law student's student loans pay for the BMWs and Mercedes Law Professors drive. Law School in the US, in 2024, is a huge scam. I am glad I went to law school back in the early 90's, when the tuition was far, far lower and there were actual jobs for new JD's.
Shoutout to your bravery in posting this! This was a great explanation of the law school curve and how conditions scholarships are predatory.
Thank you
This is a really crappy situation and I'm so sorry to hear about it. With your stats I'm so surprised you applied to a law school with such a poor reputation, but I see how they get you. I had a very similar situation happen to me, luckily, I was able to read between the lines early on and realized just how predatory my school was. I did everything in my power to get as high of a grade possible my 1L year in order to transfer out or at least keep part of my scholarship. Went from a school ranked 150+, where 50% of students lose their scholarship to transferring to a school ranked top 30 with a huge unconditional scholarship.
Do you recommend being a lawyer? Can i make 6 figures if i dont go to t14?
You are so brave! Thank you so much for talking about these predatory practices. Wishing you well in Law School!
Thank you so much for posting this. Good things come to good people
I'm so sorry to hear of your struggle. You can make a law review article out of your story and publish it at a legitimate law school. Godspeed to you!!!
Thank you
Looking into socal law schools as a career pivot and this was very helpful. So sorry to hear about your situation and good luck with whatever you decide. The way you presented the information was phenomenal - you'll be a great trial attorney!
I am so sorry. I am praying for you now. I’m applying to law school rn and this is a real eye opener!
I am thinking of going to law school too. Ive see a bunch of vids on yt that aaw ita very saturated, scarcity of law jobs, and low pay, 30k-50k with a law degree!
Sheesh! I got into Chapman for fall 24. Looks like I won’t even be considering this place. Thank you sm for the info! Wishing you the best.
I'm about to be a 3L at Chapman and I have to say it's one of the best decisions I've ever made. It's an amazing law school with outstanding professors. I'm choosing to take on the debt, I don't have a scholarship. However, I think if you are offered a scholarship that's conditional, most schools operate this way to incentivize those who have a scholarship to strive for the highest GPA. All law schools have curves, and although Chapman has a comparably lower curve than other law schools, you can't escape the curve in law school. Nor can you escape bad grades and disappointment in law school. It's the way it is and you just have to make sure you work harder/study more the next time around because the amount of studying required to pass the bar is unlike anything most people have to do in their education.
I appreciate you sharing your story. Please keep spreading the word.
WOW, this is eye opening and I fully appreciate you sharing this. I have a a conditional scholarship offer from Chapman.
Thanks for sharing this.. our conditional gpa is 2.6 to keep our scholarships in miami.. I’m going to look further into any possible predatory practices. Keep you head up girl! You’re smart and you will come out on top regardless, with or without loans!
Oh and please keep us posted on what you decide to do!
Thank you. I will
Thank you for explaining this! I didn't even know this was a thing...
thank you so much for sharing your experience & explaining that curve! im applying to law schools this upcoming cycle so im definitely going to factor in schools' grading systems when i make my choice, as I fear a competitive system like Chapman's probably fosters competition and even hostility amongst students.
Thank you for listening. You’re right it felt very competitive.
Girl I’m so sorry! It’s crazy when things out of your control end my crushing you completely. This is an extreme nightmare
Thank you 🙏
Thank you for sharing your story! Law schools need to be more transparent!!
They wouldn't make a any money, and most of them would go out of business, if they were honest. Did you know that there are TEN LAW SCHOOLS in the state of Pennsylvania? The state can't reliably provide jobs to the graduating class of one law school every year. . .so it has 10. That means that JD's will be asking "Sir, do you want fries with that?" post graduation. People say they didn't know the legal job market was overcrowded before applying to law school. . .but if you go to a state that has 5 or 10 law schools, and say you didn't see a problem with that, then you are a special kind of stupid.
Tysm for speaking up! I’m sure you can get through this, they’re so evil, trapping innocent young students on purpose
This video is sooo informative thank you so much !!
With your ability to see injustice combined with your courage to speak out, leads me to believe that your going to be an outstanding attorney.
Sorry to hear that. Most law schools are predatory but luckily you are spreading good information. Everything you said is true. If each year will cost you 101k, minus the 47k scholarship., that means that you will finish school with 255k student debt. That is insane. There has to be another way to do legal education because the banks are the ones taking advantage by pitting students on debt for the next 20 years. They made money on interest by just lending money
Please don't give up !! The world needs MORE people like you that make a difference... I thought it was the end of the world when I was an E-2 working in Supply Dept. I ordered 20 boxes of soap for the crew while on deployment in Yemen. 20 pallets of soap were landed one after the other for 72 hrs. Nobody slept....Everybody hated me and knew my name and face... I was crying ...but my Captain came over to me and said *Cheer up* " each time one of my pilots land and take off at sea. It brings us all closer to a Battle *E* Award for the crew. And this also brings me closer to Admiral.
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USS Boxer 2001-2003
@emojidinosaur7300 my best to all your loved ones SHELLBACK
wow, thanks for sharing your story. very eye opening. hope your doing well. and this type of thing should be illegal/ prevented / taken to court and stuff.
Thank you.
Wow, that sounds so stressful on top of how stressful law school already is. I’m a govt attorney and to me law school was worth it. But I never aspired to be a top corporate lawyer anyway-I was poised to be a philosophy PhD up until my last year of undergrad lol. I’m close to having my loans forgiven and the pay is reasonable. I tried a position that required billable hours for a year but it was soul-crushing lol. It’s been my experience that unless you work for the govt, you have little to no work-life balance
Wow mind opening experience. I heard that Chapman is known to admit any body into law. Sounds like predatory bait and switch with the scholarship as Chapman might not want to be a pit stop before students transfer some where else. Thank you. You have moved me liked and subscribed!
Wow this just showed up randomly in the algorithm. But thanks for posting your story. Fascinating and unique situation most would not even realize. Hmm you know this is a great question for Dave Ramsey! Another option is to not take out loans and apply elsewhere? Take a year off and work while you reapply.
Sadly, this is pretty common. I have been watching Nathan & Ben (LSAT Demon) and they constantly warn of this type of thing. Have you considered the JAG program via the military? I don't know about this option but it may be something to look into for active duty service.
Sorry to hear that, hopefully things will go better for you next semester. I recently finished my first year at Pace Law School which is not quite as predatory as that, but still pretty bad, since 90% of the school is on conditional scholarships. Of a class of 200, roughly 60-75 lose their scholarship each year, at a school that costs $50k. I've spoken to many of my sectionmates who will sadly not be returning because they lost their conditional scholarship.
Though I have to say to your point about transfers and about them taking their sweet time on the appeal process, I think its probably not so sinister. You won't really be able to transfer anywhere at median, no matter what your GPA is, and GPA is less important because you can use your class rank to show where you actually lie. Likewise, I'd chalk the delay in responding to appeals to incompetent administration rather than any actual animus.
Anyway, hope you have a better 2L.
I’m considering quitting. I’m glad you like Pace. I visited the campus in white plains.
You purchased this school. Did your due diligence fail you ?
You want to return your purchase because it's not what you thought?
You have options.
Pace at least has good employment outcomes even if their scholarship policy is a bit predatory. Definitely not the worse situation and I know lots of Pace alumni, all of them seem to be doing quite well. Now's there's a law school in Long Island that's even more expensive than Pace and has much worse employment outcomes.
@@andrewc673 its a bit difficult to hear that after going through Pace OCI, which was essentially nonexistent compared to seeing the OCI of my friends at other schools. For private sector there were 2 V100 firms that did resume collect, and that's it. For public sector there there was the NYC law department, and 2 DA's offices. That was unbelievably pathetic. I sent out over 100 applications to big law firms, and despite being top of my class, law review, lots of solid work history, and just doing a summer internship with a federal judge, all I've gotten were a few screeners that have led to nothing, and total radio silence from 95% of the firms. One firm (Cravath) even literally required me to put the name of my school in the subject line of my application email. That way I suppose they didn't have to waste the 5 seconds to open my resume before throwing it out because I'm not going to the right school. Comparing myself to my friends at Fordham and Columbia who were below median but already have biglaw offers, it really makes me question what value this school has. It is super frustrating to think about all the effort I put into doing well in school not mattering, just because of elitist hiring practices.
I at least expected a robust public sector OCI, but that list was truly pathetic. Hopefully I can get something at the NYU public interest law fair in January.
@@echoingamy Do not borrow 200K for 2 years at a low ranked law school. I wouldn't borrow that much to attend Harvard Law, and I am a practicing lawyer with over 25Y experience. You have options, you know the right decision, and I applaud your bravery for posting this video and warning others about The Law School Scam.
Hey Amy,
Thank you for sharing your story. This is predatory. They clearly used you for your incoming stats (which were excellent) and then did not share with you the full facts behind the scholarship. It was likely in the fine print, or you had to do some research, but the fact that they awarded you the conditional scholarship but did not inform you of the very real risk of losing it makes this practice very dishonest.
I really wish the best for you. Thank you for your vulnerability.
Thank you Tekla
I like how this is one of the first videos that comes up when looking up this school. I know I will avoid it in my applications
Issues like these are why I have NEVER trusted private universities. They cost SO MUCH money and they have their own special rules that don’t apply to the public universities. It’s like the private universities aren’t as regulated.
really important video but so sorry this happened to you
Lol I got a conditional scholarship offer but you have scared the hell out of me. Thanks for being brave and crying on camera and not editing that out I was almost considering the offer until I realized I have no idea what their curve is and its probably just like this otherwise why would they even offer it conditionally. My GPA upon entering has no bearing on them lol Absolute scam.
Thanks for your story, Amy. Wish you went through LSAT Demon first with Ben and Nathan, but I think you'll be fine in the end. You seem very smart and hopefully your channel will help you pay off your debt. Good luck to you.
Lol. I like your optimism 😀 thank you ♥️ that’s very nice of you to say
Is the lsat demon good? I got 3 months to take my lsat in June
Yes! You MUST check it out. Take a listen to their podcasts and free demon account to try it out. These guys have the 411. They've been around for at least 10 years, went to law school themselves and have graduated thousands of students in the 170's range for T14 schools, allowing them to go to law school for free!@@iFrankie.
yes
@@iFrankie.
Wow I didn't know about all this, I also thought they were bad but how hard can it be to keep it? Now I know I'll never ever do a conditional scholarship ANYWHERE.
I wonder if they gave you a week to decide whether to attend as a test…which is why they later denied your appeal. I agree with the poster who said to withdraw and reapply to a much better school. Good luck to you!
Thank you.
It's honestly criminal that they charge 61k a year, really Ivy league equivalent prices, for a legal education with recognition that will barely stretch past towards North LA. Thank you for your service truly. Have you considered just dropping when they canceled your scholarship and applying to a different school after a hiatus?
Thank you for your comment. Yes. I’ve considered dropping out
@@echoingamy I hope you seriously consider it as a viable option. 200k in debt with a starting salary around maybe 60-80k a year means a lot of your years in practice basically paying off interest. You have a high GPA and with some work on your LSAT you can reapply and get scholarships at way better schools. I wish I had a 3.9 like you. That's a free Ivy league law education with a good enough LSAT.
I think the high price is part of the scam. They charge high prices and many assume the price means a high quality education, but it's probably average. Then the scholarship is there to suck you in and accept the offer. Once in, you are stuck and they make their money off the subsequent years. This school does not sound much different that those bogus colleges that advertise on TV. High price, low value and students leave with mountains of debt and can barely find a good paying job in their field. I think 60-80K is not even a reasonable expectation considering how saturated the legal field is.
Thank you for sharing, I had no idea.
I'm curious why, with your stats, you applied to such a low ranked law school and so late in the cycle? Did you consider waiting until the next cycle opened so you could apply early to better schools?
Thank you for posting
As a person who was strongly considering Chapman, this is eye-opening.
Thank you for sharing, it can be hard to do for some, but the grass is always greener. Same thing happened to me. I decided the debt was not worth it. I decided to get into accounting. Got my Masters - 0 debt unlike law school. I also secured a job before graduation (unlike a lot of chapman grads). Started making around 70k just when covid happened and I was working remote. Now I'm at around 90k and I just had my CPA application accepted - should have license shortly. CPA is harder than the bar they say though, not sure a bout the cost - the company I worked for reimbursed me for anything related to the CPA. Good luck, and wish you the best
Thank you Chris!
Sorry tough situation. Did you use all your GI bill benefits for your undergrad?
DO NOT GO BACK!!! It’s smarter to drop out before you take on that debt and it’s not a top tier school and you’re not at the top of your class so job prospects are likely to be average at best when i comes to $$.
This seems to be the norm in lower ranking schools. Yale and Harvard don't use curves. In fact, Yale does even do letter grades.
Hello, I had a question. I recently got a conditional scholarship from Chapman. I noticed they lowered the required gpa to a 2.000. Does that make it easier or harder to keep it.
I was going to apply to Chapman Law!! This video has made me rethink. Thanks for sharing your story. ❤️
hey hope your okay, im considering law school and now I know to watch out for this predatory practice :(
Don't go 200k in debt for a T3 school who's median private sector salary is 85k and 75th percentile is 100k. Withdraw and reapply to law school all over again and get a free non conditional ride, which is very possible with your stats. Some schools EVEN give living stipends. Do your research, some people had to take this extreme measure and guess what - the law schools don't count you as a transfer, but a 0L and you won't have any debt. You can also apply to schools with 2 yr accelerated jd like Suffolk law in Boston, so that year won't seem wasted. I did TONS of research and law school is something you have to be very cautious with, few people know how predatory so many of them are!!!! Do careful research. For example, some give conditional but require you NOT be in academic dismissal like New England Law. There's so much nuance in this situation. My biggest like feeling with all this that just upsets me is how good your stats are, like another person said - you could have gotten into tons of schools and for sure gotten full nON conditional scholarships!!! And you still can.
I don’t think I can start over with school. My hearts barely in it now to continue
Not all law schools have conditional scholarships. Be careful when applying to law schools
I feel so bad for you. Thank you for sharing your story to warn other people. Is it possible you can retake the lsat and reapply?
I haven’t looked into it. The lsat is very difficult
@@echoingamy the lsat is difficult. I took it twice and got a 172. I used LSATDemon to help me study. It’s an expensive program but it helped me out.
Santa Clara does the same shit!! Almost 50% lose their scholarships each year it seems for a school with abysmal bar passage rate. I know a guy who lost his (Santa Clara) and heavy-loaded his 2/3L classes so he can graduate early with *slightly* less debt 🤔
The vanishing full ride scholarship is pretty common in law school
They promise more than they can offer to reel you in and take it away 😅
I don't think anybody should expect a scholarship when they enter a professional degree it's a given that the schools like law school or any other professional degree or certification we'll leave you with that it's just a given that even though you finished the degree you will be indebted for practically the rest of your life. It should just be expected and perhaps one of the deciding factors whether to go and pursue a degree in such a field
Wow, WTH is wrong with them, I hope you’re doing okay 🩵
I’m doing okay. Thank you ♥️
A lot of these low ranking law schools have forced grading curves that weed many students out after their first year. Also, the conditional scholarships are predatory.
So what did you end up doing ? Also because you were applying in April is that why you were limited to applying to different schools? Did you get into any other schools? You should’ve been able to get into a non sketchy school with those stats? Sorry for all the questions
Good for you.
If you're ever feeling feisty, you could "wonder" how their unofficial education on how to create an atmosphere for coercion holds up with accreditation standards 😉🌸
I'm sorry to hear that. But unfortunately, private law schools do this knowing that you might not fulfill their required GPA in order to keep your scholarship or obtain academic probation. As for competing to get a law firm job, it all depends on who you know, if you have experience/worked in the legal field. It's not all about your grades, unless you want to enter into BIG LAW. I HATE the misconception that grades are end all be all. Because it's not true. I am a primary & others who did not get 3.0 GPA example that it's possible to get into a good law firm, even BIG LAW. SO, DON"T BE DISCOURAGED!
Thank you
@@echoingamy If you want to excel in law school you have to work on your writing skills. Get study aids, use resources in school, get tutoring. You have to learn how IRAC works and use it very well by issue spotting, applying the black letter law to the facts, & concluding. Look at Themis or Helix.
I actually did well in some classes. The particular classes I did poorly in happened to be the classes were the instructors gave the least amount of instructing. The classes went something like: did you read? Do u have questions? Alright see you next week.
@@echoingamy Well that is how law school works. The professors expect you to learn what you need to know and do via your readings. And if you didn't understand a particular concept, you ask them. I'm sure they lectured as well, not just did you read... If you still want to attend law school, don't give up. Or if you want something related you can get a Masters in law or a paralegal certificate & work for a law firm as an paralegal/legal assistant.
@@gemalopez6885That was my suggestion. I've been a career paralegal and have at various points earned what some new associates at small firms make. But EA, find a way to keep going, land a job that can pay off your debt as fast as possible. If you do quit or take a break from law school, see if you can land a law firm job with tuition reimbursement. My paralegal program was paid by my Big Law firm. And many companies will pay for Masters or law degrees if you work for them after you graduate. I mostly worked in litigation and made a decent living. But practice areas like Governance pay much higher. You have options. Explore them all before you totally quit. Good luck! P.S. Your explanation re: this shady grading practice shocked me. Keep sharing. It really will help others.
This is terrible. I would file a lawsuit against the school. I am an alumni from Chapman., Did you take out those student loans?
Agreed - but the highest performing students on scholarship are (presumably) trying to get out of Chapman and transfer to a higher ranked school. So, how does this impact lower ranked students? I’m sure there’s a minuscule benefit as a result of these students transferring out (assuming they aren’t local and can leave without any family or job/obligations). The low curve is to keep their bankroll for the next 1L entering class and cross-collateralize the bait and switch scholarships for incoming 1Ls, while recouping the losses on the previous 1L class scholarships going into 2L by the students paying full price in that class.
If you lose the scholarship going into 2L, just cut your losses and get an MBA in accounting/CPA.
I feel your pain
I wanted to go to this law school. I’m happy I didn’t go to law school at all only because of the debt I would have accumulated. If I get rich somehow, I may go!
They do this at my school as well. Its very disgusting behavior by the law schools.
Honestly, I wouldn't normally suggest this, but you may be better off dropping out at this point. I'm pretty sure California lets you apply to take the bar without a J.D. and New York lets you take the bar without a J.D. as long as you have 1 year of law school and apprenticeship experience at a law firm. Might be a good option for you at this point.
Thank you for your comments. I haven’t decided
@@echoingamy good luck friend!
Are u still in Chapman. Maybe we were in same track when I took crime or contract law
Sorry that you’re going through this but why are you relying on conditional scholarships when the post 9/11 gi bill covers some of the tuition, Chapman also offers the yellow ribbon program for all veterans an extra 17k I believe.
Can VR&E also help?
Thank you. I used the gi bill for undergrad. I don’t qualify for vr&e
This does not surprise me since Chapman is a high-cost private university. With that said, do not despair. Just plan on landing a six figure job after law school so you can pay off those loans.
wow I got accepted by Chapman too!! thank you for sharing your experience.
Don't go. Trust me, the JD is not going to help you on the job market, and the student debt will be a lifetime burden. There are lots of fields that need workers, teaching, Nursing, Accounting, Radiation Techs, Truck Drivers, Airplane Pilots and the list goes on and on. People go to law school because lawyers are glamorized in silly movies like "Legally Blonde". . . and wildly inaccurate depictions of how law is actually practiced on the show Law & Order, and similar shows. Life isn't a TV show or a movie. Do something practical instead of pursuing a JD at a low-ranked school.
I'm currently applying to online law schools that are accredited by CA State Bar because I don't want to end up in 6 figures of debt. I appreciate you sharing your story about Chapman and the grim reality of law school scholarships in a way that is factual and professional and even keeled.
Northwestern California University School of Law??
This sounds like a nightmare
If you are reading this, please Don't Go to Law School. Factually, licensed attorneys work for $22.00 per hour doing "Temporary Document Review Projects." My plumber, who runs his own plumbing business, charges $140 per hour. He is in his late 20's. My Electrician charges the same. He also runs an Electrician School on the side, and makes far more money than most attorneys do. I run a successful solo practice, and I run into unemployed and severely underemployed lawyers all the time. Where I live there are signs on the side of the road with dollar symbols, advertising cash signing bonuses for nurses with as little as 2Y of education, but instead of doing these jobs, and getting paid well, dummies go to law school and flounder in the grossly flooded/oversaturated legal job market afterward. Don't make a big, life-changing mistake. Don't go to law school.
I worked as a paralegal in a government agency for 30 years in civil service. Originally I had planned to go to law school but changed my mind when I saw attorneys who were let go because of a new Attorney General remain unemployed for years. The staggering debt of attending Law School makes it a silly choice for most people,
Modern US law school prey upon gullible people. Some fool will get a bachelor's degree in "Philosophy" or a similar worthless major, move back home with the parents, and start stocking shelves at the local grocery store while struggling with student loans. Then they will decide that they want to be like Tom Cruise in A Few Good Men, or Elle Woods in Legally Blond, or a character on the TV show Suits, and go to law school. Law school recruiters will gleefully lie to them about their amazing career prospects--as long as they pay the school 150K or more in tuition, financed by student loans they will never repay--and off they go. Students, and potential law students, should really know better. There are No Jobs for most law school grads because the job market for lawyers is grossly oversaturated and has been for decades. There are 10 TEN ABA ACCREDITED LAW SCHOOLS IN THE STATE OF PENNSYLVANIA. Does anyone reading this honestly believe that there are jobs for 10 entire classes of law students every 12 months in one state? There are 8 law schools in Virginia, 6 in tiny D.C. . .you get the picture. You could study Nursing for 24 months and have far better job prospects than 7Y of college and law school, followed by a tough 2 day Bar Exam.@@loralieisa
This situation is especially shitty because you have great stats (161/3.95) and could have definitely gotten a less predatory full ride scholarship at another California school.
Honestly, you shouldn’t pay for law school. Chapman/95% of law schools are not worth $103k of debt per year.
Obviously she knows that dude. But the school knew a lot better than her. Taking advantage of a veteran…. Disgusting.
Were you able to transfer to another school?
This practice should be illegal. These schools should be sued. Do not continue this degree and talk with a lawyer about your options
Thanks.
Please please send this video or write to the CFPB, Consumer Financial Protection Bureau
If it’s not to late, I would drop out and settle for public law schools. I’d say that will cushion the blow to the debt you take on*
I'm not a lawyer, hell im not in law school yet, but how is this not illegal??
The data is somewhat readily available. The ABA records and publishes how many students had conditional scholarships and what percentage of those students lost them. It's still an incredibly shitty process, but people can do their due diligence to see which schools do this and which ones don't.
I’m not sure why it’s legal. Except that Laws haven’t caught up to the present needs of society. Conditional scholarships are a fairly new creation.
It is called a bell curve. Sorry you had a terrible experience.
You got screwed over, it sucks, no way to sugar coat it really. Did you have any mentorship during the application process? I ask because you applied incredibly late in the cycle (April 2022). Ideally, you wanted to send in your applications in August 2021 because most law schools operate using rolling admissions. You have some big decisions ahead in considering whether or not you want to continue at Chapman and take on 150-200k in debt. If you do the 10 year public interest/loan forgiveness route, you could have all your debt forgiven. Feel free to PM if you want to brainstorm some options. I just finished taking the bar and have a bunch of free time.
What are you going to do now?
Honestly I hoped you dropped out. If not, you still should. The school is sleazy, and the chances of getting a job that is good enough to repay that debt aren't that good. The ROI isn't there and there is no guarantee you'll even get a job at all. I graduated from law school in 2009 and I don't even practice law but my student loans are paid thankfully.
Thank you
Law school Deans, Professors, and the folks who work at the Career Services Office all know that they are scamming their own students, promising them jobs that don't exist. There are TEN LAW SCHOOLS-10-in the state of Pennsylvania. 8 in Virgina. 6 in tiny DC. That's 24 law schools in 2 states and a tiny "District". There aren't enough jobs for half those grads, probably not enough for 25 percent of them. If you are teaching law school in a state with 10 of them, you have to know your students are getting screwed, paying big tuition for jobs they will never get. It is all very dishonest, shameful, and wrong. The ABA doesn't care, and students like you end up with a worthless degree and in a job unrelated to practicing law.
You couldn’t get a job or u just didn’t want to practice law?
The first lesson about the law it's a business
Don’t worry, my friend was in 200k debt (
Loyola) from law school and in 3 years she has managed to pay it almost all off she has 30k left. She now makes 130k top law and worked her way up, all of this was accomplished by living at home
Thank you
@yoyoyo111able Your friend is lucky she was living with her parents but she had no paycheck for 3 years after tax. Its not worth it. I have friends who have associate degrees who make six figures doing software development or tech sales. The legal sector is saturated, there are too many lawyers and the law schools know this but they over enroll and engaged in predatory practices.
@@melissagreye8445 EXACTLY. There are plumbers and electricians who make over $100K a year, and people with law degrees who work doing "temporary document review projects" for $22.00 per hour. Society programs people to believe that all lawyers are wealthy, beautiful, powerful people who fight for justice in big, dramatic courtroom battles. . .the reality is wildly different than that, and not in a good way.
The lower ranked the law school the more nonsense for the students. The more prestigious the law school, the better the student is treated.
Watch yer back.
Why apply so late in April? Did you do any research on law schools before applying? Soooo many questions, but good luck.
I used the lsac school search to find law schools to apply to
What is the rationale behind curving?
Traditionally law schools expel the lowest ranked. I believe now they’ll let you keep going.
That grading system is so sad its funny
This isn’t unique to law school. When you look in the underbelly of anything you’ll find shit like this going on.
This is a 109 ranked school.
3.96 and 161 LSAT and you went to chapman? Why? It’s a lower tier law school.
I think partly I was influenced to go because a UA-camr vlogged the school while she was going there. I didn’t get a chance to tour or visit the schools in CA, but I knew I wanted to go to CA. I also expected that rent would be cheaper because it’s not LA or Malibu. Rent is actually the same if not more.
@@echoingamy Well, you did great in undergrad. Chapman is a con and you deserve better. It’s just an unfortunate situation. Someone wrote that you should cut your losses, drop out, and re-apply to a different school and start over. It’s not a bad idea. I just can’t fathom being 200k in debt with a law degree from Chapman. Best wishes.
hold on what do people do in law school, why does it cost so much, like if I want to learn about law wouldn't it just be me reading books about the law, so why are we paying so much to reading books on your own... also now that we have AI, can we we not just ask the bot about the law and get an answer right the way without dgging into books? I just don't know why people pay so much for "education" you won't even get a job that would pay you enough for the time you lost and the debt you are in, not to mention many companies are already cutting jobs due to AI... We should really rethink education.
There was recently an incident in NYC where a lawyer with 30 years of experience in litigation used chatgpt for his legal research and it just made up cases. He submitted that to the court, and the judge and opposing counsel saw right away that it was using bogus nonexistent caselaw. So now he's probably going to be disbarred for doing that. So don't put education in quotation marks, not just anyone can be a lawyer with no training.
As for why law school is so expensive, I agree that it's ridiculous and unjustifiable. Though the cost at public law schools is generally around $20-25k, which is still massively overpriced, but a far cry from the $50-65k at a private school. The fact is that since you can get unlimited student loans that can never be discharged in bankruptcy court, the schools can just charge whatever they want and people will pay it. Supply and demand is completely distorted, because they don't have to worry about pricing people out by being too expensive, so long as they're willing to take on the student loan debt.
@@warnegoodman you need to factcheck GPT4.0 for now for sure, but AI will get better over time, just think about how good google is now days comparing it back when it was version 4.0, anyways the point is this education system is a scam.
I attended Chapman Law and I loved it. I’m sorry to hear you didn’t have a good experience. Conditional scholarships are tough, but it’s common among law schools and that’s a chance you take when you accept admission. And you’re right, the curve sucks because people are forced to lose their scholarships. I don’t think Chapman deserves to be called out for this though, because you would’ve had a similar experience at any law school offering a conditional scholarship. I agree with your overall opinions on the predatory nature of law school scholarships, but I disagree with the way you framed your message putting Chapman at fault, when that’s just how the system is. If you attend law school, you know that student loan debt is always a possibility. And yeah it sucks, but that’s what we sign up for. I just hope no one feels discouraged going to Chapman after watching this video, because they have a great post 3L bar prep program that you won’t find at other schools.
But, I truly hope you find your way, and everything is up from here!
Hopefully she passed the bar exam 😅
I’m so sorry, you seem to be a great student and don’t deserve that! I’m an undergrad at Chapman that struggled academically and then started using their academic resources, but I made that decision to late and lost my scholarship 🥲
I’m so sorry.