You know that one comedy sketch that went viral, with the Scottish guy who just could not understand that a kilogram of steel and a kilogram of feathers weighed the same, because steel is heavier than feathers? This felt like an hour of you trying to get Donny to understand that a kilogram is a kilogram. You are amazing, and I applaud your incredible patience.
I actually loved watching that guy grapple with the steel vs feathers thing, because you can SEE him brushing up against the concept of density and trying SO hard to understand the disconnect. Unfortunately, that doesn't happen in this case.
I hate to admit this. But sometimes the only way to get some experts to open up and actually teach you anything is to get them into an argument within their field of expertise. A lot of "experts" will never talk to you about it otherwise. I get the strong impression that GG is the exact opposite. Find her at a random coffee shop and ask her a question. I feel that if she had 2 hours to spare, she would fill both talking about it. And I would love every minute of it.
I really love that too because he is desperately trying to tell her that she has no reason to feel that way and she does not budge on it. I love that she is so assertive and calling SFT when he’s up being ridiculous or absurd
@@jdlech I would love to catch Gutsick at a coffee shop then, although I feel I would love after 20 minutes because I don't want to annoy her too much.
This was a "debate" the way a kindergartener debates the teacher about the letters of the alphabet. But props to you for your patience. Also, props to Standing for actually asking the questions and being willing to publicly lose face by asking qualifying questions and admitting what he doesn't know. That's the only way any of us learn and it takes vulnerability especially when you're under massive pressure by your audience and affiliates to prove your point. But you were truly on point in that debate by sticking to your point and not letting him change topics so he had to get to this point. We need more debaters who do this because it's the only way to make it clear where the evidence and burden of proof lies. I really appreciate what you do by refusing to let the waters be muddied and bringing the evidence.
It's not even devastating to his case!! Erica pointed out that they could just consider australopiths an extinct and unrelated species of bipedal apes, and their case would be unharmed! If anything it'd be strengthened, since you could boil down all the similarities between humans and australopiths as being a result of their bipedal stance. They have no problem accepting that some dinosaurs walked on two legs and others walked on four, so why do they want to disagree that it's possible that there just used to be bipedal apes? It would make their argument way STRONGER
@@catpoke9557you are right except that would give evidence to evolution as a whole on man. They need man to be a special case that God created whole cloth without change. We were created in his image. No emotion necessary. It would be powerful evidence if they were doing science. But they have a conclusion and are working towards that.
@@A2forty It wouldn't provide evidence for evolution IF they used the excuse I mentioned! That's why I mentioned it. They could argue that there just used to be bipedal apes, nothing to do with evolution, just like how there's both bipedal and quadrupedal dinosaurs. They could've said it's like that. And if they did, then they'd have excuses to explain why australopiths look so similar to us. They could argue they look similar because our body plan is good for a bipedal creature.
Thanks a lot Erica. You’re one of the best debaters when tackling a topic you’re passionate about. These apologists already died on the hill of “nuh uh”. Let’s educate and motivate the coming generations.
SFT is a bad faith actor. He might have been polite but it was a constant stream of gaslighting and fallacies from him. I think you’re right though. He knows his position was BS. He lied through his teeth to keep to his dogma.
I like how you discuss things with donny even though EVERYONE else gets annoyed that he's actually asking good questions at the end. They can see it unraveling and they're starting to get really uncomfortable with the cognitive dissonance. It's almost textbook lol Great job as always, E!
I came here to see if anyone else had brought that up. It seemed to me as though all speakers at the end (other than Donny and Erica, of course) reeeeeeally didn’t want Erica laying out the irrefutably bipedal position and angle of the foramen magnum in all Australopithecus skulls. That’s the kind of evidence that can change minds, if the people listening are receptive.
It's so strange. They should be relieved she's doing this. She actively gave them a BETTER argument for their point, and the only reason I can think of for them NOT taking it is pure stubbornness. You don't have to say that australopiths were a human ancestor just because they walked upright, if you just class them as a fully bipedal ape. Was brachiosaurus not a dinosaur just because it stood on four legs and the ancestral dinosaurian condition was bipedal? Of course not. It was just a different type of dinosaur that walked in a different way. Creationists could use the EXACT same argument with australopiths. They could even use their bipedal stance as an excuse to explain why they look so human, as they'd need to look more similar to humans than other apes since they walked a similar way to us. Australopiths are definitely human ancestors, but for those who disagree, saying they were bipedal STILL works in their favor rather than against it. It makes them more intellectually honest and it opens the doors to arguments that, while still flimsy, are much stronger than the argument that australopiths were quadrupeds. There is variety in animals, and there is variety in how they walk. All dinosaurs today walk on two legs, but in the past, it was not like that. Many walked on four. They could just make the same argument for apes. All apes today (not including humans since these particular people don't count them as apes) are at least partially quadrupedal, but in the past some were entirely bipedal. They could easily make that argument, and Erica made that clear to them, yet they ignored it.
lab leak happened. Remember those religious camps in Australia?
Рік тому+62
The fact that you have to tell him what is a problem for his position is telling. Also he keeps moving his position. If you were allowed to talk for a little longer, it feels like he would have said that the whole Australopithecus genus are human :)
After growing up around YEC it is extremely cathartic to see this nonsense refuted by someone who actually knows what she's talking about. EDIT: Wow those people who chimed in at the end are absolute brain cases, they'd be better off muting themselves and letting Donny speak (and that's saying something)
Irrefutable evidence that irrefutable evidence is irrelevant to the "faithful". 1 Corinthians 1: 19: “For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent. 20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?
@@IRGeamer The bible writers seemed to have a dislike for intellectuals. Probably because they could steal away those the bible writers wanted to lead. "Ignore evidence! We have the feelings!"
what I heard Donny say is: "I like the conclusion Ella Been arrives at. I don't agree with any of her premises, but I agree with her conclusion... in short, Evolutionists can't show me a single animal that is part human, part ape - because if they do, i can just cut it up and say THAT part belongs to a human, and THAT part belongs to an ape." Also, "Said-uh-buh."
I remember way back when I was in my twenties how young creationist and literal bible readers would frustrate me. The frustration never completely goes away as you get older and even older'er
"I wish I could quit you..." I get it, tho. Donny is the king of BS mountain, and it's hard to not want to get into the fray and take him on when he spouts the same nonsense over and over. You did a great job getting into it with him for nearly 2 hours!
You can tell he WANTS to be honest. His nervous laugh betrays him. She paints him into a corner. He knows it. She knows it. So he throws hail mary passes. Needs more study. I agree w some and not all. Its all human. Its a collection and mixing. The only piece he didnt throw out was God Said It. If you are going to argue w Erika, bring your A game. And learn to pronounce the big words.
We learned this from flat earth. People who earnestly want to learn truth don't put the word their names and parade around with it. Those who do, only LARP with the aesthetics of being the super special smort big brain man
Erika “look, this Bike’s front fork is attached to this wheel, this must be a bike wheel” SFT: “that wheel belongs to a 1997 ford taurus” Erika: “how would the wheel of a midsize sedan end up attached to a bicycle? also, I don’t think a car tire would even fit on this bike, also also, it says ‘huffy’ on the tire” SFT: “must be a coincidence”
SFT: "but HOW closely is the fork attached to the wheel?" E: "...it's attached, look! They're attached!" SFT: "Because I'm not sure we have the same definition and wouldn't there be rust after all this time and so they can't be VERY attached"
@@andchimeras SFT: "it can't be attached because the nuts and bolt have rusted away, so the wheel must be the a Ford Taurus that drove over the bike and died on top of it."
This time I think Gutsick Gorilla would have been more appropriate: you shred! You were clearly fighting lies, intentional, desperate lies and did it well! Peace and
Man, that was so frustrating 😅 it's like he can only hold one element of an argument in his head at a time. Erica: this is a human pelvis. Standing: ok. E: and this is an Australopith vertebra. S: ok. E: so Australopiths were bipedal. S: but that's an Australopith vertebra? E: yes, with a human pelvis in articulation, meaning they belonged to the same individual. S: but that's a human pelvis? E: ye... Yes... In articulation with an Australopith vertebra. S: Ah, so it was a human and Australopith buried together! E: no, it was a single specimen in articulation, in situ. S: but the vertebra is Australopith? 🤦🏻♂️
The vertebra and the pelvis are human. That is why the vertebra is more similar to extant humans than it is to extant non-human apes (chimpanzees, bonobos, gorillas, etc.). If a human-looking vertebra is articulated (fossils of a creature found in proper arrangement in one location) with a human-looking pelvis, then both pieces are human. This is what I said in the discussion. Lucy's pelvis looks human because it IS a human pelvis. It is representative of a pygmy human. Isolated bones that look more ape-ish (what evolutionary taxonomists refer to as non-human ape) that are mixed into the Australopithecus collection are not human. This is why I pointed out the collection of bones (both articulated and isolated) that are labeled Australopithecus is a mixed collection (human and ape - or non-human ape). Therefore, the vertebra articulated with the pelvis in Sediba is human - as I iterated in the debate.
@@StandingForTruthMinistries "if a human-looking vertebra..." Yes, that's exactly where you keep getting lost, it seems. It is explicitly NOT human looking, which is why it was stated over and over again, by Erica as well as the professional you were citing, that it is in fact an Australopith vertebra. It is distinctly different from any Homo vertebra, and it is characteristically identical to all known Australopith vertebrae.
@@ACallToReason No - it looks human. And it is human. The minor variations in what you call an Australopithecus vertebra and pelvis are not that far out from normal human variation. The flared hip for example can easily be explained through environment, epigenetics, and morphological degeneration (including pathology). The pelvis and vertebrae of both Lucy and Sediba are very dissimilar to extant apes (chimpanzees, bonobo, gorilla, etc.).
@@StandingForTruthMinistries no offense, but I don't think you're really qualified to make that kind of claim. The experts who specialize in very specific fields of study unanimously disagree with your layperson's opinion. I'm not qualified to analyse the data either, but at least I know that, and I also know how to defer to those who know more than I do when trying to learn things outside of my ability to personally evaluate.
@@StandingForTruthMinistries of course Lucy and Sediba are dissimilar to extant apes; they aren't extant apes. They also aren't human, as evinced by critical analysis of their anatomy.
You telling Donny that you'd literally rather die than have him use the phrase "paleo experts" killed me. 💀💀 You deal with SFT's discordant shenanigans with the strength of a patience elemental. I truly admire your mental fortitude.
You know, it was nice to see Donny having an almost earnest conversation, and doing things like admitting that he changed his mind on some factors when he learned more that came out about Lucy (albeit misguided conclusions still but I think the general motivation being there is always a good point) and even criticized other YEC on some points, but it almost gave me whiplash when the others came into the background literally groaning and complaining that it needed to wrap up and by the end were almost yelling at y'all.
First off, they got that way because they probably literally don't understand the words coming out of Erika's mouth. Second, they probably felt Donnie slipping out of the grasp of their faith group a little too much and desperately wanted him to not change his mind entirely. For how active he is in this community, if he changed his mind totally on YEC it would be a big blow to them. They'd rather be totally wrong and ignorant and save face with their little cultists than face the repercussions of admitting they're making all this shit up.
@@ChristopherSadlowski I think you’re spot on, friend. Donny’s seems to be a risk for them to have around anyway, because he’s shown that he CAN change his mind (erroneous though his conclusions might be, at times). In fact, I might be wrong here, but I think they didn’t start butting in until just after he said he made ANY change of mind about Lucy/Australopithecus afarensis.
This gosh darned fellow really just said Lucy was a Pygmy human? Australopithecus Afarensis? The Incredible Hulk could not make such a leap. The skull! The hands! The feet! ARE YOU KIDDING ME!?!?
Not quite. He thinks the human looking parts are pygmy humans and the non-human looking parts are just some random non-human ape. Paleoanthropologists are just mixing the two together and pretending they're one species. Which makes no sense, as Erika explains at great length.
I love it when people out themselves as being intimidated by someone literally just not getting tripped up by bad logic. "Numismatic King" probably couldn't keep up and got so twisted up about it he had to start up one of those classic dumb baby tantrums: "If you're so smart..." And he actually thought that little nugget of petulance was worth butting in to add!
Sigh. Homo-like doesn't mean that it is Homo. It means that it is _like_ Homo. I would ask why this is so hard for him to understand, except I know why Donny can't seem to understand - he's stuck in that indoctrinated frame of mind which says there _can't_ be transitional species and that is why he's constantly struggling to wrap his mind around what he's seeing (with the added handicap of not having actually studied any of this in an academic setting so most of this is stuff he's picked up on his own and mostly from YEC sources). Well, unless he's just deliberately being obtuse because he's made a career out of telling Young Earth Creationists what they want to hear. It was hard enough for me to break out of the YEC mindset - that indoctrination goes _deep._ But if I had financial incentives to resist accepting the evidence in front of me? Well, I probably still would have ended up rejecting it eventually, but it would have been that much more difficult to do. And for the record, I held on to YEC even after I rejected the notion of Christianity, the Christian god, and eventually even a personal god. I was an agnostic that heavily leaned deist primarily because the YEC indoctrination was that strong. YEC was literally the very last thing I ended up rejecting. And looking back, it's so weird. I think most ppl would assume it would be the other way around.
I usually hate debates, but I've watched this to the end, for the algorithm. It was painful. Also it's funny how he considers Lucy a human while there are other creationists who reconstruct her as far from human as it's possible for an ape. Complete with a statue of a gorila-looking thing. I would say it feels a bit transitional.
That's why I like Erica as a debater. I feel like she's very calm and polite compared to some other debaters. It makes it way less worse as opposed to when they are just shouting and stuff
@@psychologicalprojectionist It's easier poking holes in someone else's arguments than actually coming up with your own - even though I'm sure you'll seize the opportunity to flip that around and apply it to creationism to score some rhetorical points. Too bad I pointed that out, and spoiled the fun.
Creationists a couple decades ago: "Where are the transitional fossils? We'd believe that evolution is true, but there are no transitional fossils." Creationists now: "Those fossils that look so transitional are actually a convenient mix up of homo sapien bones and "ape" bones. They just happened to crash into each and die. Nice try evolutionists."
And also, when they crashed into each other, or when their remains were swept together by a stream or landslide or whatnot, all the human heads and torsos somehow got lost, and all the ape hips, legs and feet got lost as well. Every time. Somehow. But maybe somewhere, yet to be discovered, there are sites full of human heads and torsos, and ape hips, legs and feet, and the YEC “researchers” will be able to say “Hah! There’s your mirror-image ‘transitional species’, _Homo quadrupedensis!”_
Man i am an evolutionary biologist, and i would NEVER every make any hard claims about human evolution or morphology because its not my field (but ericas) I wouldnt even talk about evolution of animals i dont work with. But SFT is an expert on geology, evolution, morphology genetics ajd physics and he disagrees with all of the experts. Truly a thinker of our times.
The patience you have in dealing with such rigid obstinacy is truly amazing. I wish there was an award for such because I’d definitely put your name in for consideration. You’re such a lovely person.
Gosh Erika, you are one of my favorite people ever, hands down. You get to do what you love and at the same time inspire, empower, and entertain the rest of us. Much love!!
He would argue that although the crust was in articulation with toasted bread-like loafy material, he was not in fact toast but a pygmy flatbread because the Bible does not mention toast😆
Oh my god. He literally SAID the thing. "Wait, but you said EXTANT PRIMATES. Australopithecus vertebrae are completely different." "..........yes." HE WAS SO CLOSE TO UNDERSTANDING THE POINT.
@@raysalmon6566 I don't suppose there's any merit in denying it. At least there is merit in honestly assessing the given information to see if it is true. Maybe there's something deeper you'll discover in your quest to verify and validify your beliefs without the burden of cognitive dissonance and confirmation bias interrupting the progress. Just something to consider. If something is not true, you would want to know, right?
@@middlegroundlogic well you certainly hsve evolution narrative down so what would be the cognitive dissonance problem of failing to explain how the first living reproductive cell could of evolved
@@raysalmon6566 I'm confused about what you mean about me having the evolution narrative down. I definitely don't. There's more to study than I can possibly put the time into. What I'm looking to do is make sure that I don't make any claims to certainty about anything that I can't have peer reviewed, critiqued, and corrected if necessary. If you're interested in a real exchange, I would be happy to have it. I'm certainly open to the conversation.
Well argued, and fantastic job. Here is one tactic that helps me when arguing with people. I find it useful for them to get out their full thought and then dissect what they have stated. You did this to a large extent already in the video, and a fantastic job. Sometimes when we pre-empt their point to the finishline, it makes them feel like they are not being clear to you and gives them the "well, they don't quite understand my issue." It sometimes helps me break through to the other side. Actually never mind, rewatching it you did in fact do this as much as you could have. You have to force them at some point. Fantastic job. Any reasonable person would have been convinced.
When I was brought up in YEC the argument was there are no transitional fossils. Now the argument is “these fossils that look precisely how we would expect transitional fossils to look, aren’t transitional they are a hodge podge of human and ape bones” seems to me these are precisely what I would expect if evolution was true. Ape like and human like bones in the same animal.
This is actually an indication that you talk with a person who worships himself as decider of reality and as deity without directly admitting it. The creationist attitude in such a case (or when it comes to flatearther, who claim they won't even accept a view from orbit of the globe) is just a masquerade for those people to dwell in their own (very infantile) smugness and Egomania. I did run into people like that and shifted the topic to try to force an admission that they are equally fallible humans (like anyone else incl. myself). You usually can't make them do it. Because denial of reality contains the denial of being just a human. This is identical to asylum patients unable to accept they ain't Napoleon or Jesus.
They're right, too, because many people DO see it happen in daily life and don't believe it. For a long time there were cats breeding outside my house (not my fault mind you, my dad's fault, but I took care of them) and I could SEE the changes that happened as the generations went on. I saw evolution in action. The cats all started off giving birth to more or less the same kittens. Gray, orange, calico, black, all with the possibility of piebald genes, color point genes, and dilute genes. Now some of the cats are born with hair that curls in the summer, others not. Some started to be born with the CHOCOLATE gene (which is very rare) and may have even evolved it entirely on their own, it's unclear. Color point kittens have nearly phased out of the gene pool. Black kittens have also nearly phased out of the gene pool- they're almost all chocolates now. Fully colored kittens (ones with no piebald) are significantly more common now and were nearly nonexistent before. Calicos are more rare. The cats have more successful survival rates than in the past. Most kittens survive to adulthood now, whereas before most of them died at a young age of fading kitten syndrome. I can go on. Observing the change with time as the population evolved was VERY fascinating. My dad still doesn't believe in evolution, despite seeing it happen.
I LOVE that in the end even Donnie’s yec buddies were pissed at how ridiculously stubborn he was being (although they’d justify the reaction as just to him taking too long lol) I gotta go watch some of your non-sft videos to get the Donnie Deals taste out of my mouth now lol
Ericka, I’ve watched so many of your videos that even though this was mostly a calm and polite exchange, for some reason every time Donny talked I could still hear Tchaikovsky playing in the background.
I put my skeptic goggles on to get into the mind of Donnie and his pals a bit and I think the pictures you showed really helped especially of that paper you pulled up at the end showing that humanlike pelvis actually attached to a nonhuman vertebral column was super compelling and I would of gave up right there.
Yea I would have given up once I realized that the vertebra has been classified by a paleoanthropologist, who specifies as a vertebra expert, as not human.
I see Donny wants to split Australopithecus into two distinct genera. Some whose features are definite close to non biped apes and the others. Then say that the others are definitely human (I.e Lucy is a pigmy). Nevermind the fact that we have distinctively nonhuman jaw and magnum, non-human feet, and non-human vertebrates on bipedal non-homo apes.
@@adeyemi120 I feel like if you look into this stuff enough you end up having to accept evolution as legitimate. Donny is either on that path or has already accepted it and is in denial. The fact that he's researched it so much and come this far set Erica on a path to do a thorough debunking haha. He started asking some legit questions towards the end and his buddies were trying to shut him down lol
@@Natheist oh I wholeheartedly agree! I used to be a creationist like Donny and dove so deep into all the research trying to figure an alternative to evolution mainly out of spite of being told I am wrong…. I failed so hard I questioned my faith in Christianity within 5 years… Now, out of spite of being thought the wrong thing my whole life, I dive into research to figure out how Christianity became what it is today. Mainly to educate my family of how much bullshit they try to instill in me... Yes I’m spiteful lol. I like understanding how things work and felt I was done a disservice by being born to a dogmatic sect of Christian.
Creationist & apologist arguments consist entirely of tactics to hand wave your arguments away. It feels like he isn't getting it at all, because once he realized that your argument was valid/sound, he KNEW it must be wrong, because it would shatter his worldview and do some crazy things with his career. It was clear when he realized he couldn't argue.
I love how “its a really fuzzy situation, therefore creationism” is so common when creationism states the lines are very distinct and evolution says it’s supposed to be fuzzy
"How did chumps come from humans if there are still chumps?" Go Erika! Sheesh, these salesmen talk slow. Thanks for not dumbing it down for us lay peeps. You're an awesome enlearnicator. Whoop whoop x
I got it!!! His whole argument is an archeological "no true half-scotsman" fallacy. Does this bone look human? Then its human, because there are no true "half-humans."
Oh boy. Donny is doing the same thing here that he and the other guy did in the heat problem video from a hundred years ago: "I blend the theories together because part B of that one and part # of this one say I'm right, even though they cannot both be correct! :D" Jfc.
The argument was extremely clear to a complete layperson. It was hilarious that he instantly decided he knew a lot more than the paleoanthropologist who specialises in vertebrae when he realised he was going to be forced to admit that Australopithecus is neither "ape" nor human. Loved it!
I absolutely loved this exchange. You were fairly clear throughout and I feel better informed. Mad respect for shutting Bubbles down. I don't know what he was so keen to say after your bit, but I'm guessing it was nonsense. #evolution #paleoPals #got99problemsButHeatAintOne
Self care is important. If you can't get through it because your soul is trying to claw its way out of your body that's okay. You tried, that's all that counts.
So, I think the most telling point in the discussion was somewhere in the latter half (I was driving and couldn't note the time) when you asked him, roughly, "Given all of the evidence I've shown you, what would your response be?", and his reply began with, roughly, "Well, beginning with my starting point as a creationist....". And I thought, well, that's the whole thing right there. Standing isn't going to be swayed by any evidence; he's going to find some way to force whatever evidence he's given into his predetermined boxes. I've had a lot of discussions with creationists, and it's become clear to me that they don't grasp the idea that someone could accept a conclusion they didn't believe before based on evidence. They think everyone is like them, that everyone interprets evidence do as to keep their beliefs intact. I also find it telling that the longer the conversation went, the more frequently he interrupted you, and, after asking you questions, interrupted you to do a mini-Gish Gallop by adding another point that wasn't related to his own question. Overall, I agree you demolished him. You did a great job staying focused and calling him out when he added irrelevancies. 5 👍
I love how you keep this to the point Erika. Great style. The intro was essential for understanding why the focus on pelvis and the whole absolutist mentality of the human/non-human concept of Creationists. Bubbles is still interrupting, trying to end this discussion.
So let me get this right, Donny thinks that every Austalopithecus individual, which according to google numbers over 300, has been a mash up of human and ape bones? That’d be one absolute hell of a coincidence.
@@StandingForTruthMinistries Really now? Do make a list for us mortals so we can bathe in your wisdom. Do tell what bones are human and what bones are ape.
@Anthropomorphic Trilobite I'm waiting to see if he is going to try and find a Australopith skull without an anterior foramen magnum : spoiler, he won't find one.
I had to keep on trucking while I listened to this. Only thing that came to Mind was: if you’re prepared to defend a YEC view on fossils why not just postulate a neck and vertebrae that has some heavy S curves to put the upright walking skull on the knuckle walkers he wishes were there. I’m so glad you’re out here Mrs Gibbon. And even better that you’re laying down the law on these tools.
![Intro to Tool Dev in Unity - An Improvised Live Course [part 1/4]](/img/n.gif)
I love how quick you are to agree with Donny when he (occasionally) makes a correct point. The mark of an excellent teacher.
1:47 Dress to kill for sure. Perhaps an evolutionary leap in fashion especially for a modern day hominid
@Black Lesbian Poet Only if you also get remedial English lessons.
You're not even a good sock puppet.
@Black Lesbian Poet you ok buddy?
Testing to see if I can post
@blacklesbianpoet1228Hell yeah! Now ... what am I agreeing to? 😊
Standing for Truth needs to change his name to Falling for Bullsh!t.
Very much agree.
Maybe its an ironic name like calling a big guy Tiny.
@@L_Train little John, very English.
I like Aron Ra's "Stooping for Lies". 😁
Maybe "running from truth"?
You know that one comedy sketch that went viral, with the Scottish guy who just could not understand that a kilogram of steel and a kilogram of feathers weighed the same, because steel is heavier than feathers? This felt like an hour of you trying to get Donny to understand that a kilogram is a kilogram.
You are amazing, and I applaud your incredible patience.
Limmy's Show is great! You should also see their episode on Water
Is he American? If so, this would probably happen.
@@f.u.m.o.5669 limmy is very clearly Scottish.
@@vrknyght8207 I'm talking about Donny. Americans can't understand the concept of a Kilo.
I actually loved watching that guy grapple with the steel vs feathers thing, because you can SEE him brushing up against the concept of density and trying SO hard to understand the disconnect. Unfortunately, that doesn't happen in this case.
I never imagined you saying "no homo" would be a common occurrence in a debate, but I guess it makes sense.
I was looking for this comment.
No Homo
I feel like there's snarky t-shirt potential here
Really want to hear Lil' Wayne mention australopithecines, then say pause.
SFT: "All the features of all the skeletons that look humanlike are just human, even when found in articulation." + No true Australopith fallacy.
also I really respect your being willing to just say “I don’t want to talk to you, I don’t enjoy talking with you” and standing firm on that
I hate to admit this. But sometimes the only way to get some experts to open up and actually teach you anything is to get them into an argument within their field of expertise.
A lot of "experts" will never talk to you about it otherwise.
I get the strong impression that GG is the exact opposite. Find her at a random coffee shop and ask her a question. I feel that if she had 2 hours to spare, she would fill both talking about it. And I would love every minute of it.
I really love that too because he is desperately trying to tell her that she has no reason to feel that way and she does not budge on it. I love that she is so assertive and calling SFT when he’s up being ridiculous or absurd
@@jdlech I would love to catch Gutsick at a coffee shop then, although I feel I would love after 20 minutes because I don't want to annoy her too much.
@@ridleyroid9060I mean, and with all due respect, who wouldn’t love her after 20 minutes of getting to know her?? :B
He insists on making Lucy the only Australopith in the world. It comes off like Dunning Kruger, but it’s just more of his gaslighting.
This was a "debate" the way a kindergartener debates the teacher about the letters of the alphabet. But props to you for your patience.
Also, props to Standing for actually asking the questions and being willing to publicly lose face by asking qualifying questions and admitting what he doesn't know. That's the only way any of us learn and it takes vulnerability especially when you're under massive pressure by your audience and affiliates to prove your point.
But you were truly on point in that debate by sticking to your point and not letting him change topics so he had to get to this point.
We need more debaters who do this because it's the only way to make it clear where the evidence and burden of proof lies. I really appreciate what you do by refusing to let the waters be muddied and bringing the evidence.
Gutsick: ...why can't you just say that they're bipedal and be done with it?
Donnie: (thinking) BECAUSE IT'S DEVASTATING TO MY CASE!!
Besides which . . . humans are not the only bipedal animal! What about birds?
@@pompe221 *Diogenes smiles knowingly*
It's not even devastating to his case!! Erica pointed out that they could just consider australopiths an extinct and unrelated species of bipedal apes, and their case would be unharmed! If anything it'd be strengthened, since you could boil down all the similarities between humans and australopiths as being a result of their bipedal stance.
They have no problem accepting that some dinosaurs walked on two legs and others walked on four, so why do they want to disagree that it's possible that there just used to be bipedal apes? It would make their argument way STRONGER
@@catpoke9557you are right except that would give evidence to evolution as a whole on man. They need man to be a special case that God created whole cloth without change. We were created in his image. No emotion necessary. It would be powerful evidence if they were doing science. But they have a conclusion and are working towards that.
@@A2forty It wouldn't provide evidence for evolution IF they used the excuse I mentioned! That's why I mentioned it. They could argue that there just used to be bipedal apes, nothing to do with evolution, just like how there's both bipedal and quadrupedal dinosaurs. They could've said it's like that. And if they did, then they'd have excuses to explain why australopiths look so similar to us. They could argue they look similar because our body plan is good for a bipedal creature.
Thanks a lot Erica. You’re one of the best debaters when tackling a topic you’re passionate about. These apologists already died on the hill of “nuh uh”. Let’s educate and motivate the coming generations.
SFT is a bad faith actor. He might have been polite but it was a constant stream of gaslighting and fallacies from him. I think you’re right though. He knows his position was BS. He lied through his teeth to keep to his dogma.
I like how you discuss things with donny even though EVERYONE else gets annoyed that he's actually asking good questions at the end. They can see it unraveling and they're starting to get really uncomfortable with the cognitive dissonance. It's almost textbook lol
Great job as always, E!
I came here to see if anyone else had brought that up. It seemed to me as though all speakers at the end (other than Donny and Erica, of course) reeeeeeally didn’t want Erica laying out the irrefutably bipedal position and angle of the foramen magnum in all Australopithecus skulls. That’s the kind of evidence that can change minds, if the people listening are receptive.
It's so strange. They should be relieved she's doing this. She actively gave them a BETTER argument for their point, and the only reason I can think of for them NOT taking it is pure stubbornness. You don't have to say that australopiths were a human ancestor just because they walked upright, if you just class them as a fully bipedal ape. Was brachiosaurus not a dinosaur just because it stood on four legs and the ancestral dinosaurian condition was bipedal? Of course not. It was just a different type of dinosaur that walked in a different way.
Creationists could use the EXACT same argument with australopiths. They could even use their bipedal stance as an excuse to explain why they look so human, as they'd need to look more similar to humans than other apes since they walked a similar way to us. Australopiths are definitely human ancestors, but for those who disagree, saying they were bipedal STILL works in their favor rather than against it. It makes them more intellectually honest and it opens the doors to arguments that, while still flimsy, are much stronger than the argument that australopiths were quadrupeds. There is variety in animals, and there is variety in how they walk. All dinosaurs today walk on two legs, but in the past, it was not like that. Many walked on four. They could just make the same argument for apes. All apes today (not including humans since these particular people don't count them as apes) are at least partially quadrupedal, but in the past some were entirely bipedal. They could easily make that argument, and Erica made that clear to them, yet they ignored it.
Nothing closes a mind faster than religious dogma.
lab leak happened. Remember those religious camps in Australia?
The fact that you have to tell him what is a problem for his position is telling. Also he keeps moving his position. If you were allowed to talk for a little longer, it feels like he would have said that the whole Australopithecus genus are human :)
On a long enough time line Donnie will claim every ape is a human.
@@zackc3767 -- If "Human" must be a fully inclusive group, then eventually he'll call all life human.
@@TlalocTemporal - I'm willing to share my humanity.
One Day at a Time Erica. I started an SFTAnonymous group. There is Hope.
Life meth, Never do SFT. Not even once.
After growing up around YEC it is extremely cathartic to see this nonsense refuted by someone who actually knows what she's talking about.
EDIT: Wow those people who chimed in at the end are absolute brain cases, they'd be better off muting themselves and letting Donny speak (and that's saying something)
They're going to need an icu after that Savage burn!
@@zemorph42 Not even a miracle can account for that heat
Irrefutable evidence that irrefutable evidence is irrelevant to the "faithful".
1 Corinthians 1:
19: “For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.
20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?
@@IRGeamer The bible writers seemed to have a dislike for intellectuals. Probably because they could steal away those the bible writers wanted to lead. "Ignore evidence! We have the feelings!"
YEC is only one version of creation ....
Evolution has the embarrassment of not being able to account for the first living reproductive cell
what I heard Donny say is: "I like the conclusion Ella Been arrives at. I don't agree with any of her premises, but I agree with her conclusion... in short, Evolutionists can't show me a single animal that is part human, part ape - because if they do, i can just cut it up and say THAT part belongs to a human, and THAT part belongs to an ape."
Also, "Said-uh-buh."
I remember way back when I was in my twenties how young creationist and literal bible readers would frustrate me. The frustration never completely goes away as you get older and even older'er
Even I was in my twenties once. Then dirt was invented. 😆
@@rembrandt972ify God is real
@@AndrewBarton-ho1iu
You're welcome to believe that.
Most atheists don't. We just don't want to be forced to follow your religious rules.
@@AndrewBarton-ho1iu If God was real you'd be able to show evidence of him. Too bad you can't.
@@rembrandt972ify Well... any God 💃🤖 you would want to talk about to humans 👥👥👥👥.
His inability to correctly pronounce "sediba" is literally driving me crazy. Your patience is that of an atheist saint.
"I wish I could quit you..."
I get it, tho. Donny is the king of BS mountain, and it's hard to not want to get into the fray and take him on when he spouts the same nonsense over and over. You did a great job getting into it with him for nearly 2 hours!
2 hours? where's the rest?
@@HedlessChickn It was on this 8+ hr live stream. ua-cam.com/users/liveH_dE6l2qUWE?feature=share&t=17252
@@HedlessChickn Standing for truth my ass!! I call him "Sitting on lies"!
LOL, Donny sure is the king of "BS mountain"! iirc, that's located somewhere in "BS country", where Hovind rules the land. 🤭
You can tell he WANTS to be honest. His nervous laugh betrays him. She paints him into a corner. He knows it. She knows it. So he throws hail mary passes. Needs more study. I agree w some and not all. Its all human. Its a collection and mixing.
The only piece he didnt throw out was God Said It.
If you are going to argue w Erika, bring your A game. And learn to pronounce the big words.
Oh my gosh I love the childish attacks at the end about being smart 😂 that such a self own on their part. You did great Erica
Based on all of the evidence I have seen, if someone has "Truth" in their username... they have no idea what truth is.
that actually checks out😂
We learned this from flat earth. People who earnestly want to learn truth don't put the word their names and parade around with it. Those who do, only LARP with the aesthetics of being the super special smort big brain man
Only Sith deal in absolutes :P
@@Ugly_German_Truths These are not the truths you're looking for :p
I think if YEC's saw an Australopith walking down the street (well ok, across the savannah plain), they would STILL say it didn't exist.
Erika “look, this Bike’s front fork is attached to this wheel, this must be a bike wheel” SFT: “that wheel belongs to a 1997 ford taurus” Erika: “how would the wheel of a midsize sedan end up attached to a bicycle? also, I don’t think a car tire would even fit on this bike, also also, it says ‘huffy’ on the tire” SFT: “must be a coincidence”
"With God all things are possible!" Yeah Standing, I'm also the king of Poland because God told me I am. What a lame argument.
SFT: "but HOW closely is the fork attached to the wheel?"
E: "...it's attached, look! They're attached!"
SFT: "Because I'm not sure we have the same definition and wouldn't there be rust after all this time and so they can't be VERY attached"
@@andchimeras SFT: "it can't be attached because the nuts and bolt have rusted away, so the wheel must be the a Ford Taurus that drove over the bike and died on top of it."
@@ChristopherSadlowski I support your claim to the throne.
This time I think Gutsick Gorilla would have been more appropriate: you shred! You were clearly fighting lies, intentional, desperate lies and did it well! Peace and
Man, that was so frustrating 😅 it's like he can only hold one element of an argument in his head at a time.
Erica: this is a human pelvis.
Standing: ok.
E: and this is an Australopith vertebra.
S: ok.
E: so Australopiths were bipedal.
S: but that's an Australopith vertebra?
E: yes, with a human pelvis in articulation, meaning they belonged to the same individual.
S: but that's a human pelvis?
E: ye... Yes... In articulation with an Australopith vertebra.
S: Ah, so it was a human and Australopith buried together!
E: no, it was a single specimen in articulation, in situ.
S: but the vertebra is Australopith?
🤦🏻♂️
The vertebra and the pelvis are human. That is why the vertebra is more similar to extant humans than it is to extant non-human apes (chimpanzees, bonobos, gorillas, etc.). If a human-looking vertebra is articulated (fossils of a creature found in proper arrangement in one location) with a human-looking pelvis, then both pieces are human. This is what I said in the discussion. Lucy's pelvis looks human because it IS a human pelvis. It is representative of a pygmy human.
Isolated bones that look more ape-ish (what evolutionary taxonomists refer to as non-human ape) that are mixed into the Australopithecus collection are not human. This is why I pointed out the collection of bones (both articulated and isolated) that are labeled Australopithecus is a mixed collection (human and ape - or non-human ape).
Therefore, the vertebra articulated with the pelvis in Sediba is human - as I iterated in the debate.
@@StandingForTruthMinistries "if a human-looking vertebra..."
Yes, that's exactly where you keep getting lost, it seems. It is explicitly NOT human looking, which is why it was stated over and over again, by Erica as well as the professional you were citing, that it is in fact an Australopith vertebra. It is distinctly different from any Homo vertebra, and it is characteristically identical to all known Australopith vertebrae.
@@ACallToReason No - it looks human. And it is human. The minor variations in what you call an Australopithecus vertebra and pelvis are not that far out from normal human variation. The flared hip for example can easily be explained through environment, epigenetics, and morphological degeneration (including pathology). The pelvis and vertebrae of both Lucy and Sediba are very dissimilar to extant apes (chimpanzees, bonobo, gorilla, etc.).
@@StandingForTruthMinistries no offense, but I don't think you're really qualified to make that kind of claim. The experts who specialize in very specific fields of study unanimously disagree with your layperson's opinion. I'm not qualified to analyse the data either, but at least I know that, and I also know how to defer to those who know more than I do when trying to learn things outside of my ability to personally evaluate.
@@StandingForTruthMinistries of course Lucy and Sediba are dissimilar to extant apes; they aren't extant apes. They also aren't human, as evinced by critical analysis of their anatomy.
Re vertebrae discussion: “If I ignore all the differences then they’re the same!” -SFT
You telling Donny that you'd literally rather die than have him use the phrase "paleo experts" killed me. 💀💀
You deal with SFT's discordant shenanigans with the strength of a patience elemental. I truly admire your mental fortitude.
You know, it was nice to see Donny having an almost earnest conversation, and doing things like admitting that he changed his mind on some factors when he learned more that came out about Lucy (albeit misguided conclusions still but I think the general motivation being there is always a good point) and even criticized other YEC on some points, but it almost gave me whiplash when the others came into the background literally groaning and complaining that it needed to wrap up and by the end were almost yelling at y'all.
First off, they got that way because they probably literally don't understand the words coming out of Erika's mouth. Second, they probably felt Donnie slipping out of the grasp of their faith group a little too much and desperately wanted him to not change his mind entirely. For how active he is in this community, if he changed his mind totally on YEC it would be a big blow to them. They'd rather be totally wrong and ignorant and save face with their little cultists than face the repercussions of admitting they're making all this shit up.
@@ChristopherSadlowski I think you’re spot on, friend. Donny’s seems to be a risk for them to have around anyway, because he’s shown that he CAN change his mind (erroneous though his conclusions might be, at times). In fact, I might be wrong here, but I think they didn’t start butting in until just after he said he made ANY change of mind about Lucy/Australopithecus afarensis.
This gosh darned fellow really just said Lucy was a Pygmy human? Australopithecus Afarensis? The Incredible Hulk could not make such a leap. The skull! The hands! The feet! ARE YOU KIDDING ME!?!?
Not quite. He thinks the human looking parts are pygmy humans and the non-human looking parts are just some random non-human ape. Paleoanthropologists are just mixing the two together and pretending they're one species.
Which makes no sense, as Erika explains at great length.
I love it when people out themselves as being intimidated by someone literally just not getting tripped up by bad logic. "Numismatic King" probably couldn't keep up and got so twisted up about it he had to start up one of those classic dumb baby tantrums: "If you're so smart..." And he actually thought that little nugget of petulance was worth butting in to add!
That was really pathetic, yeah
Proving every day you can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason theirself into.
Sigh. Homo-like doesn't mean that it is Homo. It means that it is _like_ Homo. I would ask why this is so hard for him to understand, except I know why Donny can't seem to understand - he's stuck in that indoctrinated frame of mind which says there _can't_ be transitional species and that is why he's constantly struggling to wrap his mind around what he's seeing (with the added handicap of not having actually studied any of this in an academic setting so most of this is stuff he's picked up on his own and mostly from YEC sources).
Well, unless he's just deliberately being obtuse because he's made a career out of telling Young Earth Creationists what they want to hear. It was hard enough for me to break out of the YEC mindset - that indoctrination goes _deep._ But if I had financial incentives to resist accepting the evidence in front of me? Well, I probably still would have ended up rejecting it eventually, but it would have been that much more difficult to do.
And for the record, I held on to YEC even after I rejected the notion of Christianity, the Christian god, and eventually even a personal god. I was an agnostic that heavily leaned deist primarily because the YEC indoctrination was that strong. YEC was literally the very last thing I ended up rejecting. And looking back, it's so weird. I think most ppl would assume it would be the other way around.
I usually hate debates, but I've watched this to the end, for the algorithm. It was painful.
Also it's funny how he considers Lucy a human while there are other creationists who reconstruct her as far from human as it's possible for an ape. Complete with a statue of a gorila-looking thing. I would say it feels a bit transitional.
God, same, powering through the Donnie “hm. I don’t think so” bs so I can hear our fav Gibbon ❤
Her patience is amazing holy cow
This is genuinely laugh out loud funny several times. Every time GG is like "okay, so you realize you're saying X?" is
Admission is the first step to recovery. We are rooting for you girl!
I love hearing you argue passionately about this. But man conflict sets off my social anxiety sometimes...
Same. I have to do something else while listening to debates.
That's why I like Erica as a debater. I feel like she's very calm and polite compared to some other debaters. It makes it way less worse as opposed to when they are just shouting and stuff
Me too
No it doesn't!
@@Dr_Wrong lmao. Yeah-huh it does!
All the anti-apologetics coming hard and fast of late! Got to love it 🕊️
And destroying apologetics with the truth and rationality.
Warning negative energy will creep out yr feet tell it's time for Jesus energy wash.
@@raya.p.l5919 are you having a stroke? You might be having a stroke.
@@ChristopherSadlowski UA-cam Comments Doctor here, chiming in; definitely a stroke.
@@psychologicalprojectionist It's easier poking holes in someone else's arguments than actually coming up with your own - even though I'm sure you'll seize the opportunity to flip that around and apply it to creationism to score some rhetorical points. Too bad I pointed that out, and spoiled the fun.
Creationists a couple decades ago: "Where are the transitional fossils? We'd believe that evolution is true, but there are no transitional fossils."
Creationists now: "Those fossils that look so transitional are actually a convenient mix up of homo sapien bones and "ape" bones. They just happened to crash into each and die. Nice try evolutionists."
And also, when they crashed into each other, or when their remains were swept together by a stream or landslide or whatnot, all the human heads and torsos somehow got lost, and all the ape hips, legs and feet got lost as well. Every time. Somehow.
But maybe somewhere, yet to be discovered, there are sites full of human heads and torsos, and ape hips, legs and feet, and the YEC “researchers” will be able to say “Hah! There’s your mirror-image ‘transitional species’, _Homo quadrupedensis!”_
Man i am an evolutionary biologist, and i would NEVER every make any hard claims about human evolution or morphology because its not my field (but ericas)
I wouldnt even talk about evolution of animals i dont work with.
But SFT is an expert on geology, evolution, morphology genetics ajd physics and he disagrees with all of the experts.
Truly a thinker of our times.
The patience you have in dealing with such rigid obstinacy is truly amazing. I wish there was an award for such because I’d definitely put your name in for consideration. You’re such a lovely person.
Erika great work! I applaud your patience when it comes to the repetitiveness that seems to show itself when you have these conversations.
Gosh Erika, you are one of my favorite people ever, hands down. You get to do what you love and at the same time inspire, empower, and entertain the rest of us. Much love!!
Dude was scrambling for an answer and even his buddies thought he was toast. well done
He would argue that although the crust was in articulation with toasted bread-like loafy material, he was not in fact toast but a pygmy flatbread because the Bible does not mention toast😆
So sorry for your relapse. Don't give up, you can do it!
Oh my god. He literally SAID the thing. "Wait, but you said EXTANT PRIMATES. Australopithecus vertebrae are completely different." "..........yes."
HE WAS SO CLOSE TO UNDERSTANDING THE POINT.
This was really fun and frustrating 😆
Excellent work Gutsick. Sliced and diced and served on a platter 🤗
Erica is SO awesome! She is the communicator we all needed speaking against YECs
well she will not be able to deny that Jesus said God created everything
@@raysalmon6566 I don't suppose there's any merit in denying it.
At least there is merit in honestly assessing the given information to see if it is true. Maybe there's something deeper you'll discover in your quest to verify and validify your beliefs without the burden of cognitive dissonance and confirmation bias interrupting the progress.
Just something to consider. If something is not true, you would want to know, right?
@@middlegroundlogic well you certainly hsve evolution narrative down
so what would be the cognitive dissonance problem of failing to explain how the first living reproductive cell could of evolved
@@raysalmon6566 I'm confused about what you mean about me having the evolution narrative down. I definitely don't. There's more to study than I can possibly put the time into.
What I'm looking to do is make sure that I don't make any claims to certainty about anything that I can't have peer reviewed, critiqued, and corrected if necessary.
If you're interested in a real exchange, I would be happy to have it. I'm certainly open to the conversation.
@@middlegroundlogic well i always go back to the first living reproductive cell could not of evolved
I choked on my drink when you said, "No homo." 😂
Well argued, and fantastic job. Here is one tactic that helps me when arguing with people.
I find it useful for them to get out their full thought and then dissect what they have stated. You did this to a large extent already in the video, and a fantastic job. Sometimes when we pre-empt their point to the finishline, it makes them feel like they are not being clear to you and gives them the "well, they don't quite understand my issue." It sometimes helps me break through to the other side.
Actually never mind, rewatching it you did in fact do this as much as you could have. You have to force them at some point.
Fantastic job. Any reasonable person would have been convinced.
When I was brought up in YEC the argument was there are no transitional fossils. Now the argument is “these fossils that look precisely how we would expect transitional fossils to look, aren’t transitional they are a hodge podge of human and ape bones” seems to me these are precisely what I would expect if evolution was true. Ape like and human like bones in the same animal.
I remember having a conversation with someone that said if they saw evolution happening they still wouldn't accept it.
This is actually an indication that you talk with a person who worships himself as decider of reality and as deity without directly admitting it. The creationist attitude in such a case (or when it comes to flatearther, who claim they won't even accept a view from orbit of the globe) is just a masquerade for those people to dwell in their own (very infantile) smugness and Egomania. I did run into people like that and shifted the topic to try to force an admission that they are equally fallible humans (like anyone else incl. myself). You usually can't make them do it. Because denial of reality contains the denial of being just a human. This is identical to asylum patients unable to accept they ain't Napoleon or Jesus.
They're right, too, because many people DO see it happen in daily life and don't believe it. For a long time there were cats breeding outside my house (not my fault mind you, my dad's fault, but I took care of them) and I could SEE the changes that happened as the generations went on. I saw evolution in action. The cats all started off giving birth to more or less the same kittens. Gray, orange, calico, black, all with the possibility of piebald genes, color point genes, and dilute genes. Now some of the cats are born with hair that curls in the summer, others not. Some started to be born with the CHOCOLATE gene (which is very rare) and may have even evolved it entirely on their own, it's unclear. Color point kittens have nearly phased out of the gene pool. Black kittens have also nearly phased out of the gene pool- they're almost all chocolates now. Fully colored kittens (ones with no piebald) are significantly more common now and were nearly nonexistent before. Calicos are more rare. The cats have more successful survival rates than in the past. Most kittens survive to adulthood now, whereas before most of them died at a young age of fading kitten syndrome. I can go on. Observing the change with time as the population evolved was VERY fascinating.
My dad still doesn't believe in evolution, despite seeing it happen.
I LOVE that in the end even Donnie’s yec buddies were pissed at how ridiculously stubborn he was being (although they’d justify the reaction as just to him taking too long lol)
I gotta go watch some of your non-sft videos to get the Donnie Deals taste out of my mouth now lol
Ericka, I’ve watched so many of your videos that even though this was mostly a calm and polite exchange, for some reason every time Donny talked I could still hear Tchaikovsky playing in the background.
I like how you got SFT to admit relatedness
This guy is so sure he is schooling you 😂 his laughs of confidence while saying "well it's human" it's so funny
it's not confidence, it's nervousness
I put my skeptic goggles on to get into the mind of Donnie and his pals a bit and I think the pictures you showed really helped especially of that paper you pulled up at the end showing that humanlike pelvis actually attached to a nonhuman vertebral column was super compelling and I would of gave up right there.
Yea I would have given up once I realized that the vertebra has been classified by a paleoanthropologist, who specifies as a vertebra expert, as not human.
I see Donny wants to split Australopithecus into two distinct genera. Some whose features are definite close to non biped apes and the others. Then say that the others are definitely human (I.e Lucy is a pigmy). Nevermind the fact that we have distinctively nonhuman jaw and magnum, non-human feet, and non-human vertebrates on bipedal non-homo apes.
@@adeyemi120 I feel like if you look into this stuff enough you end up having to accept evolution as legitimate. Donny is either on that path or has already accepted it and is in denial. The fact that he's researched it so much and come this far set Erica on a path to do a thorough debunking haha. He started asking some legit questions towards the end and his buddies were trying to shut him down lol
@@Natheist oh I wholeheartedly agree! I used to be a creationist like Donny and dove so deep into all the research trying to figure an alternative to evolution mainly out of spite of being told I am wrong…. I failed so hard I questioned my faith in Christianity within 5 years… Now, out of spite of being thought the wrong thing my whole life, I dive into research to figure out how Christianity became what it is today. Mainly to educate my family of how much bullshit they try to instill in me... Yes I’m spiteful lol. I like understanding how things work and felt I was done a disservice by being born to a dogmatic sect of Christian.
@@adeyemi120 your story is the same as mine almost word for word haha good to know we're not alone
Creationist & apologist arguments consist entirely of tactics to hand wave your arguments away. It feels like he isn't getting it at all, because once he realized that your argument was valid/sound, he KNEW it must be wrong, because it would shatter his worldview and do some crazy things with his career. It was clear when he realized he couldn't argue.
It's OK Erica, the first step of dealing with a problem is admiting you have one :).
Erica got so popular in such a short time. I hope she still reads the comments; I've been watching her from the very beginning
"The *_ape_* bone connected to the *_human_* bone...?
I hear the word of the Lord!"
🤨
I love how “its a really fuzzy situation, therefore creationism” is so common when creationism states the lines are very distinct and evolution says it’s supposed to be fuzzy
So fuzzy we managed to figure out nearly exactly how it works *eyeroll*
Just cause they can’t understand it, doesn’t mean it isn’t real.
It feels like another iteration of the god of the gaps.
"How did chumps come from humans if there are still chumps?"
Go Erika!
Sheesh, these salesmen talk slow.
Thanks for not dumbing it down for us lay peeps.
You're an awesome enlearnicator.
Whoop whoop x
I got it!!! His whole argument is an archeological "no true half-scotsman" fallacy. Does this bone look human? Then its human, because there are no true "half-humans."
I love this channel. You are so fun to listen to.
You enjoy motormouth telling you that you are an ape.
Lost of nervous laughter from Stooping and I love it…..well done.
If my relapses & addictive "problems" were being RIGHT ON THE INTERNET, I'd fuckin brag, Erica.. just like your are doing so in an ever so humble way
Erica laid out her argument beautifully and Donny said... words. Keep up the great work!
These videos are perfect for background noise while you work. Thanks Erika!
Oh boy. Donny is doing the same thing here that he and the other guy did in the heat problem video from a hundred years ago: "I blend the theories together because part B of that one and part # of this one say I'm right, even though they cannot both be correct! :D" Jfc.
The argument was extremely clear to a complete layperson. It was hilarious that he instantly decided he knew a lot more than the paleoanthropologist who specialises in vertebrae when he realised he was going to be forced to
admit that Australopithecus is neither "ape" nor human. Loved it!
This whole thing gives the same energy as that SpongeBob episode where manray is trying to give Patrick his wallet 😂
YES!
"But I don't want to talk to you, Bubbles."
: chef's kiss :
The metal gymnastics these people do…. Is so insane
For a graduate student, you're doing an incredible job. Keep up the good work. 👏
You did well. The guys in the background are not strong enough to defend their position with actual evidence.
Creationist apologists the living embodiment of the "Patrick Wallet" and the "Why male models?" meme.
I finally get to see the Donnie Deals Fallacy in action!!!! 🤩
I would imagine that by the end of that conversation, Donny's shoes were smoking due to the extraordinary amount of tap dancing.
I absolutely loved this exchange. You were fairly clear throughout and I feel better informed.
Mad respect for shutting Bubbles down. I don't know what he was so keen to say after your bit, but I'm guessing it was nonsense.
#evolution #paleoPals #got99problemsButHeatAintOne
i wish I had a fraction of the passion she has.
I'm sorry Erika I couldn't finish this one...he just refuses to process your words and it hurts my soul
Self care is important. If you can't get through it because your soul is trying to claw its way out of your body that's okay. You tried, that's all that counts.
Loved this debate. On a side note, your jacket is so cool Erika! The fashion is on point and we love to see it.
Is he really this dense or is he completely dishonest? Most likely both.
Disingenuous would be more apt.
Erika, you are the best. I'm trying to figure out how my granddaughter can be just like you. Honest, sweet, and smart!
Very fun discussion even when painful to listen to. 😅
Donny moving the goal posts. Looking at a partial skeleton: "Completely articulated?" Next he'll want video of the death and burial of each specimen.
So, I think the most telling point in the discussion was somewhere in the latter half (I was driving and couldn't note the time) when you asked him, roughly, "Given all of the evidence I've shown you, what would your response be?", and his reply began with, roughly, "Well, beginning with my starting point as a creationist....". And I thought, well, that's the whole thing right there. Standing isn't going to be swayed by any evidence; he's going to find some way to force whatever evidence he's given into his predetermined boxes. I've had a lot of discussions with creationists, and it's become clear to me that they don't grasp the idea that someone could accept a conclusion they didn't believe before based on evidence. They think everyone is like them, that everyone interprets evidence do as to keep their beliefs intact.
I also find it telling that the longer the conversation went, the more frequently he interrupted you, and, after asking you questions, interrupted you to do a mini-Gish Gallop by adding another point that wasn't related to his own question. Overall, I agree you demolished him. You did a great job staying focused and calling him out when he added irrelevancies. 5 👍
“The books I’ve read…. And own….” 🤣🤣 THIS CAN’T BE A REAL HUMAN HAHA
Science is hard to refute without it
You are very patient with someone who will likely never listen or change his mind. Thank you for sharing this it was good to hear.
1:00:16 "There's only one bipedal vertebra and it's human"
Diogenes is spinning is his grave rn
Diogenes was thrown out to be eaten by dogs and wild animals so really all I imagine is the skeleton of Diogenes running up for some payback.
I love how you keep this to the point Erika. Great style. The intro was essential for understanding why the focus on pelvis and the whole absolutist mentality of the human/non-human concept of Creationists.
Bubbles is still interrupting, trying to end this discussion.
So let me get this right, Donny thinks that every Austalopithecus individual, which according to google numbers over 300, has been a mash up of human and ape bones? That’d be one absolute hell of a coincidence.
Not every individual. The collection as a whole is a mix of human and non-human ape bones.
@@StandingForTruthMinistries Really now? Do make a list for us mortals so we can bathe in your wisdom. Do tell what bones are human and what bones are ape.
@Anthropomorphic Trilobite I'm waiting to see if he is going to try and find a Australopith skull without an anterior foramen magnum : spoiler, he won't find one.
Great video I wish the others wouldn't interrupt
This was frustrating. Always just ignore and dodge.
Boy, can SFT dance. Thanks for another amazing, enlightening video!
Ooh some juicy content to listen to at work tonight 😊
I had to keep on trucking while I listened to this. Only thing that came to
Mind was: if you’re prepared to defend a YEC view on fossils why not just postulate a neck and vertebrae that has some heavy S curves to put the upright walking skull on the knuckle walkers he wishes were there.
I’m so glad you’re out here Mrs Gibbon. And even better that you’re laying down the law on these tools.