The Failed Plan to Save Venice
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- Опубліковано 24 кві 2023
- A $7BN flood defence system isn't enough to keep Venice afloat.
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I am an engineer, I live in Venice and I do work on this project. The gates might have a lot of drawbacks, but at least they are not visible. The lagoon of Venice is practically a natural reserve, especially in the vicinity of the sea inlets: the gate project in the Rotterdam style was rejected exactly for this reason (and the inlet in Lido is almost 2 km wide, compared to the 0,4 km of the dutch project). The gates themselves are huge, they can easily withstand a tide of +3 m and need very little modification to go above this threshold. The main concerns lie with the environmental impact of their activation: firstly because they consume a lot of energy, secondly because they impact on the vital interaction of the lagoon with the Adriatic: in the worst case scenario, it is expected that by the end of the century, flooding above the 110 cm threshold will occur for 180 days per year, thus this problem needs to be carefully handled. For the concerns about the navigation and trade, an offshore port (with an underwater train connection) is being studied, an idea which could also remove all the container and cruise ships which are still allowed to enter the very shallow water of the lagoon.
I knew the cruise ships are often allowed into the shallow waters. Considering the number of tourists in Venice, which I have heard also puts pressure on Venice's infrastructure (both physical and social), it sounds like a good idea to relocate the port outside the lagoon. Like Paris and Kyoto, Venice only became such a renowned city thanks to its residents actually living there after all...
It is always very complicated to discuss about infrastructure in Venice, not only due to the very strict environmental and architectural constraints, but also because of its complex relation with the touristic fluxes. By the way, I never got the fuss of media about Venice sinking and becoming a new Atlantis: yes, this city is doomed, but not because of climate change (we have a chance of overcoming it), but because of overtourism, which is making it absolutely uninhabitable. And this scaremongering only helps make the situation even worse.
@@G.F620 can I ask (outside of the whole cruise ships thing) what the biggest issue with tourism is? I went just before the pandemic and was blown away by the city, I would love to go again with more money but I don't want to be part of the problem
@@jameshetherington1
Venice residents dropped from 175.000 in 1951 to 50.000 in 2022, amongst the reasons few of them are
- An increased cost of living caused by tourism
- Higher cost of housing (it's more convenient to have a short stay B&B rather than a long term tenant)
- A decrease in quality of life (traditional shops replaced by low-quality souvenir shops)
- Lack of spaces for the youth
- Lack of rewarding job opportunities
Venice is being transformed in a theme park for tourist and locals are moving to Mestre (the closest city on the mainland)
There’s no way the literally just sacrificed effectiveness with aestheticd-
Another reasons why MOSE is not operated more often is that Tides and floods are essential to keep the Lagoon ecosystem alive.
That could have been handeled differently as well.
ah yes, because the local ecosystem is more valuable than centuries of architectural history and over a quarter million people.
@@clothokaftan at least they don't destroy the local marine ecosystem for some cool islands that will get flooded like in Dubai
@@clothokaftan yeah, it is. you can defend the city and the people in ways that minimise impact to the ecosystem
@@robbieaulia6462 touché, fair point.
edit: on the ugly islands i mean, they're an eyesore.
Honestly as a Venetian I have to say that the Mose works pretty well. The 110 cm threshold was chosen as at that level the flood only takes a small portion of the city. The real reason it won't be turned on more often is because Venice still is a sea city, and we can't stop the traffic more often. The cost is not really a problem, that figure you have shown was while in the early days, where the "electronic" stuff was not ready and there were few compressors, so a lot of people were needed to operate it. Now it's almost finished and the operating cost came down a lot.
As far as San Mark Basilica is concerned that is an ancient building, and unfortunately built really low on the sea level, so a different system was needed to fill the gap between the basilica flood and the activation of the mose for the whole lagoon. In any case there was already a system that protected the crypt from the water, this new system was a more drastic choice but mainly for the salt creeping trough the bricks into the wall damaging the marble and the mosaics.
Glad I got to see San Mark’s several years ago. Lovely city!
This is UA-cam. We need a little drama to keep our attention and make us take the "right" position. Thank you for your input. Most don't read it.
Yet Mose doesn't work. What's so wrong with putting dirt on the outside of the city? Lol
@@HowManyHintsDoYouNeed Why doesn't it work? It works beautifully now! Putting dirt outside the city is challenging because we still use canals to transport people and goods. I guess we can as last resort fill the whole lagoon and swap from boat to cars, but that would wipe out the whole lagoon ecosystem that there's outside the city (the lagoon is almost a national park). Also it would take out what makes the city unique, but better than completely submerged!
@@karellen00 the lagoon where they pollute 24/7?
Am I the only one left thinking that the system is awful if you need 80 people and 2 days to turn it on? How did this ever get funded?
It doesn’t need 2 days to be up and running, what they meant is that the gates are on faraway islands from which the operating crew could not come back when the system is on, because of the same bad weather that required it to be activated in the first place.
Welcome to the EU.
@@socalstr what does germany have to do with this?
As someone else said, the 2 days mentioned isn't the time it takes to turn on but rather the typical duration of a flood event. Also 80 people isn't too ridiculous when you realize it's split between 3 locations. Much like ships/boats, the crew size is probably dictated by damage control situations not normal operations.
@@socalstr the netherlands would like a word.
I love these videos when you do a follow-up to the projects that you guys covered and whether things went according to plan or not.
This video (partially) starts from the wrong premise that Venice is trying to block ALL high tides.
Its objective is to block all EXCEPTIONAL high tides (over 120cm). St Mark Square is 80cm over the 0 level. So it is perfectly normal that St Mark and the lower points go underwater with below 120cm high tides.
That said, due to subsidence and rising sea levels that will overcome Mose in 100 years or so, it is indeed correct that it is time again to raise the city level itself.
I am confident Venice will win this new race for its survival, as it did all past ones 😉
And, am I the only one who thinks that the issue of subsidence alone would not have fixed the very high tides, so they actually need both?
You start with the wrong premise that its ok to be underwater....
@@trumpisthemessiah7017If the parts of the city that do go underwater with normal tides are designed with this in mind, it is not wrong. Now I don't know if they are or not or if they could be slightly redesigned to make that happen but no just because something occasionally floods doesn't mean it isn't supposed to many places are designed with some occasionall flooding in mind.
@@trumpisthemessiah7017 idk, Venice as a city is probably doing better than whatever podunk flyover hellhole you probably crawled out of
It costs 0.004% of its build cost to operate. If it operated 100 times a year for 100 years it would only cost half its build cost over 100 years, it probably wont last 50. Not sure the operating cost is a real reason.
While that might be logical, it's not how a city council/government thinks. A city council wants to know how much money to set aside for things in advance because they have to worry about reelection. In politics, it's usually much easier to justify even a monstrous one-time cost that will theoretically eventually be worth it, than to keep authorizing much smaller (but still rather large) sums of money going down the drain 80-100 times per year. That, plus closing the ports to ships = some upset businesses and private citizens, which are a city council's worst nightmare. Even if the staff needed to operate the gates were all volunteers, and even if the machines somehow ran for free, there would still be a huge incentive for the city to say "no, we can't be switching it on two or three times a week".
(TL/DR: Bureaucracy sucks)
I heard that some of the money did not reach the proper service but again it could be false informations!
Its income loss. 1 cruiseship
Dude, for sure there’s either money laundering or fraud. No way it takes $300K to raise a few barricades. 😂😂
Italy is literally world's capital for organised crime, corruption runs deep and has done since the 40s, it's literally part of the government. Are you really surprised? Just look at the Genoa bridge collapse which was purely attributed to politicians, officials and contractors pocketing the cash instead of upgrading infrastructure they KNEW was outdated and risked collapse; it was entirely preventable. Look at the Costa Concordia disaster. Italy has a massive issue like this at every level.
09:40 This was an ideal setup for a pun around sunk cost fallacies
The system Is meant to stop the biggest floods, not all floods (which always happened). The system Is also meant to permit a recyirculation of water in the laguna. The big ships are the big problem of the city because of the waves created by them, if it can block them the better. Venice is an Italian city, not an other Disneyland.
100% wrong. Salt destroys the brickwork, and the city did not go underwater in the past. So maybe you shouldn't get your information from Disneyland, and instead read an actual book kid...
@@trumpisthemessiah7017They... they said not a Disneyland. They meant that Venice isn't some paradise that sone people think it is. It is still a city and just like other cities it has its own set of issues that it can't solve without creating other issues. I don't think they're equating it to Disneyland.
You need a lesson in English language, buddy
I remember my professor warning us about this project 3 years ago. He was actually one of the first people that got contacted to give feedback to this project, he shared this idea with some colleagues from Utrecht university and they came up with the idea to pump salt water back into the ground where previously fresh drinking water had been stored but depleted over the years. Haven’t heard from him since, but I have been told that he prefers working with Oman simply cuz there are less bureaucratic problem then in Venice.
The water moves through the ground. Pumping saltwater into the ground is not a good idea..
I was taught in school over 50 years ago that Venice was simply not sustainable. Way too much development sinking the city. Yes it was a large issue then
So how exactly is that plan of raising the whole city up by 30-35 cm supposed to work? How would they do it while preventing damage considering it's already been used in other cities?
Some Cities are sinking due to the consumption of ground water. If you want to raise a city, just do it the other way round and pump water into the ground.
@@oO0Xenos0Oo Yeah, but if the ground raises unevenly, many historical landmarks will crumble...
@@thetimelapseguy8 That's where you need engineers thinking really, really hard.
@@thetimelapseguy8 The plan is to pump the water into the sand layers in the depth of 600-800m. This will be a very slow process that takes 10 years for a 30cm increases. Thats enough time for the somewhat flexiible clay layers above to settle evenly. And i guess the process would be monitores constantly and the amount of water that is pumped into numerous holes adjusted to make sure no area is rising to fast.
They pull a Chicago. You just take it and lift it over there!
Fighting flooding in a city built at sea level is literally fighting gravity.
I've been to Venice twice and it's such a magical city! I pray we find a long term solution FAST!
I read somewhere a few years ago that the tourist ships were the worst destructed factor in Venise! One year not long time ago when there was drought and the ships could not go through, they could see the clear water and the fishes at the bottom!
If I remember correctly, the clear water was because of covid: lockdowns and thus reduced tourists and travelling meant less pollution in the water
Cruise ships are an environmental, unsustainable nightmare. Polluting, consuming huge amounts of fuel, all of what should become part of the past. The people who ride on them perpetuating the problems of tourism, which is also unsustainable.
It beats me why so many selfish people feel ENTITLED to go on a holiday once a year, particularly on kitsch cruise ships with their kitsch entertainment.
Stay in your own home/country and spend your holidays improving/supporting your local community.
@@bobmarshall3700 you are just buckets of fun. How dare someone work all year saving up their own money to enjoy one week of vacation. No sightseeing, don't go explore, and enjoy nature outside the cities, just work 365 days a year and never ever leave your community especially to have 'fun'.
Cruise ships are awful though, not a great place to vacation.
Fascinating, sobering video. Well made and very informative. Thanks so much for this.
This is one of those situations where hindsight truly is 20/20. When the city was first built, people were not thinking about how large it could get. It isn't a great site for a large city at all. It certainly is novel and a beautiful place. No one can take that away from it. Eventually mother nature will win this battle..sadly.
My plan;
Step 1) Consult the Dutch.
Step 2) Do as they say.
I think you might wind up with a landlocked city then. Stops the flooding though.
When I look at the design I think they already consulted the Dutch. When mose rises it looks like big blocks of Gouda cheese 🧀 😅
@@MLWitteman Are you Dutch?
@@SomeKidFromBritain yes, I am.
@@MLWitteman I am British.
It would be interesting to see you do a video on my favourite hotel in Venice. The close for almost 2 years and renovated the building, but also added flood defences to stop the ground floor flooding. The Gritty Palace is not far from St Marks but is very discrete and off the main drag. great video 2x👍
Well done, I live near Venice and you touched every point
I love to see more follow-ups on older video-projects
Very enjoyable as usual 👍
You are gay ? Touch the member at maneskins
if NL can engineer a whole country below sea level, I'm sure Venice will figure it out eventually 🙄
They'd have to get rid of their watery view!
I am sure SpongeBob would do a better job at soaking up the water ....I remember that this project has been going on forever (like everything else in Italy as far as I remember.) Money vanished in the pockets of "someone" , nothing done, back at square one again and much political blah blah.
@مريم قريشي Won’t work
No they aren't dutch
@Steve Sherman Well said. There are enough places available around the coastline to build a city on safer ground. They did look for trouble by building it here.
As always, an excellently presented discussion of interesting issues. The state this wonderful old city has found itself in tells us everything about where the world stands, on the verge of collapse.
Maybe so, but Venice has had a very, very good and long run as maritime cities on fragile coasts go. The world is littered with ruins, places that are only museums now, abandoned places, places that grew and shrank to villages, nations and civilizations that are dust. If Venice had to choose between being a living commercial city and a museum [basically, keep the lagoon open but relocate habitation to the mainland versus seal the lagoon and end port traffic but keep the islands as a low population museum city] those would be better choices than many human places have faced in the past and will again.
such a beautiful city - hope they find the best solution...
Masterworks might as well just buy B1M and Tomorrow's Build at this point to save marketing $$ 😂
Fascinating video, never knew the situation was this bad. Regarding pumping water to raise Venice, surely this will cause structural issues, especially in a city where buildings are so old?
Old stone looks pretty on the island.
They will eventually , upgrade the floaters to be more cheaper to operate.
What they are doing makes perfectly sense. When the tide is between 80 and 110 cm the only area of the city that is at risk of flood is St Marc square. That’s it.
But if you raise the barrier too often the water in the lagoon does not get cleansed by the tide. And the lagoon would become a stinky swamp. Also,given the fact that the city wasn’t built with a sewer system. The canals are. So between 80 and 110 cm the glass barriers are the simp,e and perfect solution, and when is higher, then you need the Moses, and so the rest of the city is safe.
You got it 100% right chap. Ciao.
Underwater traveling may be a bright future for Venice!
they would need to waterproof the buildings otherwise they will crumble
@@TeddyKrimsony it's a joke
We'll be taking subs to see Venice instead of the Titanic
As an Italian I’m upset we can’t properly protect one of our most important cities
I watched a PBS video on the subject that said the cruise ships were an environmental problem. The city was planning on stopping their entrance into Venice.
Cruise ships are an environmental, unsustainable nightmare. Polluting, consuming huge amounts of fuel, all of what should become part of the past. The people who ride on them perpetuating the problems of tourism, which is also unsustainable.
It beats me why so many selfish people feel ENTITLED to go on a holiday once a year, particularly on kitsch cruise ships with their kitsch entertainment.
Stay in your own home/country and spend your holidays improving/supporting your local community.
Those glass walls sounds great in combination with the barriers 🥰
I bet those huge cruise ships contribute to the underwater erosion of the foundations . I have seen many of them in Venice right up close to San Marco. The displacement they cause is massive. Good idea about an offshore port with an underwater connection
Even easier they could have an offshore port with smaller ferries transporting people to Venice. Small enough to use the canals. It would be a lot cheaper than building a train track.
Not mentioned here, is that Venice, the historical city, is competing with a massive port nearby. The modern port facilities are larger than Venice and their users are very powerful people, and organizations. The port would obviously like for traffic to be open at all times.
Wouldn’t that benefit Venice? Less traffic in a city whose infrastructure is overwhelmed.
I don't know where the video made its research: the MOSE is working according to plan, engineers knew perfectly well that St Mark square (the lowest area of the city) would flood slightly even with MOSE operating, the new barrier on St Mark square was built to remedy that. All the big tides of the last year have been prevented by MOSE and even its detractors admit it is working. Where do you get your info?
Non prendertela, sono tutti ingegneri da tastiera, non conoscono il problema e chiedono di farlo fare agli olandesi. Possiamo strillare tutto il giorno che sono poco informate ma non capiranno lo stesso.
Exactly. I don't want to defend something if it isn't worth defending, but the narratives about the MOSE project and reality are often very different. It's a terribly difficult challenge and it's more than likely that any solutions will have many drawbacks. It seems to be equally challenging in getting this message through.
Love your videos
See, this is why it's a good idea to read the comments sometimes. I hadn't considered the environmental impact. It makes a lot of sense when you think back to the dolphins playing around in the canals during in spring 2020. That's got to be a pretty diverse ecosystem, and one Italy works to maintain, if there are dolphins, and ones that will come so close to people.
According to another documentary I watched about this issue is also down to the cruise ships. Venice is not really an ideal location for cruise ships. Not only that but many of the tourists that alight the ships cause a helluva lot more foot traffic, and many of the tourists don't even purchase that much overall from the city
Last I heard, they were still drawing fresh water out of the underground void.
Installing a desalination plant so that they can stop drawing water out, and pumping a mixture of solid fill (eg sand) and fresh water back in would make far more sense. If the raft theory is right, it may be possible to raise the ground considerably further than 35cm, if it was done gradually over a long period of time.
I have no idea why, but I haven't seen this channel before but knew exactly what the voiceover would sound like 🤣 awesome as b1m :)
Would it have been cheaper to build a sea wall plus some locks?
Cruise ships could dock outside the sea defences if there was a rapid mass transit to transport visitors into the city.
Exactly right. They must give up the cruise liners to survive.
there are also environmental reasons, water needs to flow continuously for the lagoon ecosystem to work. the Netherland, as an example, are virtually a lake. Venice is not.
@@MondayMornings Check Oosterscheldekering. It's a massivee stormsurge barrier that closes off an inlet where under normal weather conditions water flows freely in and out. Built with consideration of those environmental reasons.
Or Maeslantkering, which closes off a river (that also happens to be one of the world's busiest inland shipping lanes)
Years ago, I read an article about Venice, in their wisdom, pumping water out of a fresh water aquifer under the city, causing it to sink. This happened in the 60s, if I remember the article correctly.
Anybody else hear of such a thing?
Ironically, the ancient Roman technique of building an aqueduct from the nearby Dolomites would’ve benefited Venice more than the modern solution of pumping water from the aquifer under the city.
Yes, it was partially the fault of the industries at Marghera, just in front of Venice, who took a lot of that fresh underground water. However, the North Adriatic plate is slowly going down at a rate of 2 millimetres per year. And add the sea levels that are rising... The only solution in the long term is to pump the city up.
this would make sense, they fucked up.
@@colincopland3665 modern? wells are modern now? ok...
@@lcfflc3887 yeah! how DARE they drink water!
jfc is there anything at all in your head?
Only a matter of time before i watch Established Titles videos about this Masterworks deal.
I was in Venice in 2017. There was some flooding in st.mark’s square. There was a smalll plank to walk along as there was some water in the square.
It was a gorgeous town, but very derivative. The same five types of shops repeated.
Had the best pizza in Italy, the best spaghetti carbonara I’ve ever had, and and amazing gondola ride.
It’s an amazing city that I would forever recommend a visit.
If there wasn't an essential container port in that lagun I would suggest just sealing it up so it would become a lake, then pumping out water slowly so the city would always be over water. Just an idea though
Yeah, the long therm solution is to dam the openings in the lagoon barrier and put a big ass lock somewhere.
@@tjibbeettema8759or maybe 3 locks, but I think closing it up would make the lagoon a big dead body of water, too salty, too polluted, and very very still, as of today no rivers flow into it anymore.
Just build a port out of the lagoon. And build roads/train to connect it to the city center.
First, Venice would need to install a modern sewage system, since the tides would no longer flush raw sewage into the Adriatic.
Second, just closing the lagoon's openings wouldn't necessarily keep the sea out as the Adriatic's levels continued to rise.
@@DurantImboden The lagoon has seawall made to protect from rising sea levels. So closing up the 3 enterences with more seawalls should hinder the water to come in the next 50 years. If they pump out the water of the lagoon they can make a proper suage system under the canals, however it wouldn't be cheap. The salt water also damages the city building so reverting one of the original rivers back to the lagoon so it can be closed and opened depending on the water lever would be great.
One reason gates are not raised that's not mentioned. The cities sewer system flushes directly into the Canals. Tides are essential to flush the wast out to sea and keep the harbor ECO system healthy..
building a big gate and then not being able to use it because it's too expensive to operate is just the pinnacle of incompetence bravo
Various solutions that come to mind to save Venice:
1) Construction of concrete, waterproof pontoons using underwater mining techniques under buildings sitting on petrified wood foundations in Venice.
This is a radical solution.
The higher the sea levels rise due to global warming, the higher Venice will rise with this measure.
However, in this option, the buildings will be disconnected from the foundation and their originality will be partially damaged in this way.
2) Gradually raising the ground by injecting concrete under buildings and under petrified trees in Venice.
For this process, it is possible to inject not only concrete but also deeper water.
In this way, there will be an opportunity to temporarily save time.
And since the buildings are not disconnected from the foundation, there will be no problem of originality.
3) The rise in sea level will be monitored, and the flooded ground floors will be abandoned to the sea, and Venice will be used for accommodation until the 1st and, in time, the 2nd floors are also flooded.
Perhaps, 30-40 years later, all of Venice will be under water and Venice will now be an underwater historical asset, limited to diving tourism, to watching from the surface with boats suitable for sub-pancakes.
While Venice gradually disappears under water over time, an imitation Venice built on concrete pontoons can be built in the lagoon, similar to the first option suitable for the Venice concept.
And in this way, the Venetian spirit is somehow kept alive.
In the final analysis, I am absolutely certain of that.
Venice will be largely submerged before the end of the century.
Historical buildings and everything in them will be destroyed due to the damage of salt water.
If no recovery work is done.
I am in favor of the first solution that is difficult, expensive and requires technological innovations.
I want Venice to be a floating city that will exist for centuries to come, and most importantly, a living city.
Man I hate those Masterwork sponsorships...
Yeah, it's always the crappiest products and scams that sponsor creators -- Ray Con ear buds, Raid Shadow Legends, Manscaped, etc., etc...
I wonder if it wouldn't be possible to do an IJsselmeer on the whole lagoon? That seems like a much more sensible option than risking structural damage on the entire city by raising it up.
Glass barrier is the final boss of mechanical engineering.
It needs alot of continuous upkeep, special paints , sand blast, salt water is real harsh on the comonents. Then I think it needs regular greasing and swaping old grease out.
I'm proud to say, that I visited this beautiful city before it'll be sunken
Last news I saw was they were in a drought and many of the canals were dry.
Atlantis 2
never Venice will sink!
It's hardly surprising that structures slowly sink when built onto sediments within a lagoon in a seismic zone. Add to this the steady influx of alluvium, the deep dredging to accommodate large ships and the constant thrum of engines that only arrived on the scene less than 100 years ago. It is politically and financially much cheaper to invoke the pernicious effects of 'climate change' rather that tackling the root causes of the destruction of this magnificent city.
Hi this maybe a stupid quest but with another video of your's they pumped concrete into the walls of a tunnel to strengthen it. Now her is my quest the raising with water may work but what about swapping the water for compressed concrete. It could push the land up with it push any water down the away and harden the ground making it much more stable.
I am happy I visited Venice several times before it was to late.
Why don't they seal the lagoon and have one narrower entry/exit that is a giant lock that can group vessels several at a time to let them in and out, like the Panama canal?
Cause the water in the shut-off lagoon would get stagnant pretty fast. Also it would stil fill up, as there are some smaller rivers stil bringing in water. So you'd have to have an artificial system of pumps and pipes rotating the water from the lagoon into the sea and back. You can miagine how much energy that would consume, having pumps pumping water back and forth 24/7 .
@@MTTT1234 i mean yeay but better than the city becoming the new atlantis
@@MTTT1234have a look how the Dutch dealt with much more severe conditions in their Delta works project.
You don't need pumps. You use low tide to let water out.
But you are correct. Closing it off even a little will cause silting up of the lagoon.
That's probably happening now already.
@@critical_always also there is much less tide if any in the mediterranean vs the netherlands which is more oceanic. I think ecological impact would be huge and is not just about the city but the surrounding nature as well.
If they'd designed the systems in the 2000's/10's surely there was enough information available on climate change, and if not, shouldn't they have done some studies? I mean it's a lot of money to spend on an outdated system.
5:03 it was designed in the 1980s
@@tigershark2328 Sorry, but that just makes it worse (the fact that they didn't do any major changes to the designs).
Because they know the problem is not climate change, it is the city continues to sink into the mud below it. The system is designed to protect from storm surges and does not address sinking at all.
The system was designed in the 80s but it was considered controversial since the beginning and its construction went through a lot of postponements. The whole city of Venice is a UNESCO site, plus the lagoon is a protected marine ecosystem so it was stopped dozens of times by cultural / environmental associations. Italian slow bureaucracy and a trial for corruption also didn't help. Anyway it's not outdated, it's still not complete and at the moment it works in an "experimental mode" but it's already doing a lot for the city.
😂😂😂
Thank you
Very interesting! Will pumping water under the city stave off sinking by some years?
They gotta ask The Neatherlands for tips. Their flood engineering and planning is top notch 💕
your mom makes it flood every time she calls me
I would have thought that the cost of operating the barriers would easily be covered by the profits made by local businesses and their exorbitant prices to the tourists.
Yeah…. All at the cost of the locals. Those overly priced products do not benefit people who just want to feed their families. They can’t afford to live in their own city.
Well yeah, taxes paid for the barrier. Just like all government projects.
what about adding tunnels under the city or expanding the river deeper in to the country?(the second one might cause floods somewhere else)
Simple thing sometimes are best ones, like WALLS. Close the city and make 2 gates that can lower sea lvl between them for ships!!!
At the end it would cost less and do better job then it does now!!! They can even take entrance fee for ships, for maintenance of wall!!
Make fancy walls that fits the Venice and you can add another thing on tourist attraction!!! ITS THAT SIMPLE 🙃
Can you do a video on the engineering that it would take to "raise" Venice? I'm trying to understand how that would work.
My guess is that they’d just bury pipes and connect them to pumps that send water down.
Close off the lagoon permenatly, make the locks bigger so they can accomadte fishingboats and build a port outside the lagoon connected by metro or train to the city center to accommodate the cruise ships. This solution will also make the city a bit less popular, so they fix their over tourist problem aswell.
They can’t shut the lagoon off completely due to the stagnant water that would result. The fishing would evaporate and water would stink. They don’t have a sewage system so that complicates things too. They need to be able to flush the city.
@@harperwelch5147 The smell would be abysmal.
@@harperwelch5147 also the ecosystem lives with the water refreshing every time the tide lowers, the natural islands called barene that protects the city also from flooding are reducing in size due to altered water flow and rivers that used to flow into the lagoon were deviated outside. You can't close off the lagoon for every high tide, the system is designed only for the exceptional high tides that occure a couple of days at year
I live near Venice, I'm italian. Things are quote different, you are telling a very partial Truth. Mosè Is really helping a lot, I hadn't trust in this project but I was wrong.
I'm not going to bet my gelato yet. I can see how I might want to. Thanx 2morrows! ❤
Data from this and other projects like that of the Netherlands could help places like Bangladesh from being submersible...
Also the ecosystem of the lagoon can not survive if the barriers are closed, because stop the exchange of water between the lagoon and the sea.
Is it for the people or the critters? If it's for the critters let it sink. If it's for people then do what the people want to save it for generations.
There actually is an even more ambitious plan to build a damn across the Strait of Gibraltar, which would make it possible to lower the level of the whole Mediterranean. The problem with that is that all countries along the Mediterranean would have to agree about the new sea level of the Mediterranean and the connected Back Sea. That's countries from Spain to Russia and from Morocco to Israel.
Atlantropa? I’ve heard of it.
That is an old proposed plan that currently no-one has even an interest in looking into. It's disadvantage outweigh its advantages by a massive amount.
@@MDP1702 There’s even a book called The Atlantropa Articles.
@@adamcheklat7387 I know it is a thing, but not one seriously considered by any government.
@@MDP1702 It’s more of an alt-history novel in which the project was made. And the aftermath is not pretty.
imagine if the netherlands were in charge of saving venice
I'm not a Dutch genius but I can clearly see the barriers only cleared the water by about, two feet. And that's on a day with calm seas and good weather 😂 (From the thumbnail alone)
Maybe Venice should consider engineering a new harbor outside of their barrier islands, then lowering the water level on the inside as the city continues to sink. It would probably be a lot simpler and cheaper than doing what they've been doing.
According to other comments, that would have a huge environmental impact on the lagoon. If the ships can’t get past the barrier, then neither can the fish. The entire ecosystem would die. Also, other commenters have said the periodic floods themselves are also needed for wildlife.
I’m confused. They decided large ocean liners are not to be allowed due to their wake. The barrier has been working. So how many times has it failed to work?
There is literally only one ocean liner left still sailing the oceans. Do you mean cruise ships and cargo ships?
Pull up the historical paving stones, dump in a few hundred truckloads of a lighter stone like shale that won't cause too much settling, reset the paving stones a meter higher. The individual buildings can be jacked up.
I don't know how to activate it nor flood system but seeing the shorts from this video about the system somehow I knew it won't works 😅
Knowing when to turn off the life support system is key. Usually its much sooner than it acually happens.
Maybe the time is near.
I thought they had problems with too many tourists.. and wanted to charge people to go in and see the city… So I really dont get it why big cruiseships cannot go somewhere else and people can take the train or get to Venice by smaller boat .. I would just seal of the lagoon and make special channels for fishingboats.. industrial can go on smaller transportboats… They need to listen to some Dutch engineers !
It would make sense, though I don't know that there's sufficient cruise docking along the coast. Venice is the famous ship port for the region.
What a unique beautiful city 😮
My favorite part is that a 7billion dollar megastructure is erected to make the problem worse for a high operation fee, when the real solution to the flood is not "stop water coming in", it's "make the water flow out faster"
... Flow... Where? It has to have somewhere.... To go. And it's the bloody ocean, not some rain or a river. Where you gonna put the several hundred thousand kilometers cubed of ocean water? Down the kitchen sink?
It is a little irritating to see how many (even experts in their specific fields) fail to appreciate the multidisciplinary nature of the challenge and the risks associated with ANY decision, even the most carefully thought-out. Making references to other places in the world that have to negotiate sea level changes (which can occur for may different reasons) but that have drastically different conditions only gets you so far...Venice has unique challenges and will require uniquely tailored solutions. Now that the MOSE is in operation, it's just false that it's a simply a failure. It's working as expected for the most part. Yes, we all know about the Netherlands, but this is not the Netherlands an thankfully enough people in Venice and Rome understood that.
Great video. Best solution? 1. Remove all bureaucrats from the project. 2. Put engineers and contractors together in the same room. 3. Have it built by the Dutch.
last i've heard was not flood but drought in Venice.. what a surprise
is the texas wall going to have the same issues?
Raising Venice is not feasible at the moment and it is something that has been under consideration for decades, the problem which is not simple, it is not a matter of raising a building but an entire ancient city and Extremely fragile, then the mose was already known at the time that it was not enough but the government of the time (Berlusconi) wanted to do it anyway because it was a pharaonic work. The costs have also risen due to the various bribes taken by politicians including the then president of the Veneto region Galan in addition Piazza San Marco is the lowest point in Venice and therefore the first which widens even with low tides.
Hi the Netherlands here can we help?????
I am glad I had visited Venice
I’m no engineer, but why not put in a permanent concrete sea wall most of the way and only have a small opening/boat lift/canal like entrance for boats and stuff to enter with? That way they can charge a toll for anyone who wants to enter and they won’t need to cover anywhere near as much land.
Along the whole wall you could have pumps sucking out tonnes of water too. Only downside is that it’s probably not very eco friendly…
Amazing how money can be a factor for critics. If you want Venice to survive cost is irrelevant.
Venice makes money as it stands, if its underwater its makes nothing.
Would make sense, especially as tourism picks up, apparently tourism contributed 3B euros to the city in 2016.
@@magnusturner1893 the locals hate the tourists there
i think an underwater city would bring in alot more money than a city with water canals
@@stian1236 They may hate the tourists, but they certainly don't have a problem taking those tourists' money. It's laughably hypocritical. If, as a city, you are going to make a point to fully embrace, heavily invest in and focus primarily on the tourism industry, you don't have any room to complain about tourists, especially if those tourists are the primary source of revenue for those complaining about tourists. If people in a tourist town don't want tourism, then take it up with their local government and everyone else who does want tourism enough to fully embrace it. Also, be sure to tell those tourists to go someplace else and take all of their spending money with them and to never come back. They can't have it both ways.
None of this matters anyway, as very few of those locals are actually willing to incur the huge revenue drop that would come with eschewing tourism altogether, despite what they may claim. They can always move to a town that doesn't embrace tourism completely. They won't, though. As always, actions speak louder than words.
Ngl that sponser placement was aweful
Who cares
@@maxcastelli881 ;(
Can you open individual gates? Or is it all or nothing? If that’s possible leave most of them up but drop enough for ships to go by? Then you’re just raising a few gates vs all of them when needed.
Beautiful Venice
The idea is futuristic, the model is still in beta testing, I wonder what the later generations will look like.
Have the billionaires that priced all the residents out of the city pay for it.
Phew, I still have many decades to visit.
you'd think they would devise a system that can dump all of this floodwater out of the city efficiently like the underground flood control system of tokyo does today, some of the chambers in that system are so massive it could house a small city inside it. no matter how soft the foundation level of the city is, eventually you'll hit bedrock. which will be the perfect depth to build such a system, it wont be intrusive on the "aesthetic" that the city seems to care more about than their own lives at this point.
also i have to ask, why the fudge is a 7 Billion USD floodgate system still requiring 80 people to manually raise the gates when we are in the age of full automation? there are flood control systems now that barely need anyone on site for standard operations and only need to be there for the routine maintenance. why is this incredibly expensive system already so unbelievably outdated?
As a young woman, I was intrigued by Venice, but honestly, now when I see people sloshing through the water, it just appears unsanitary to me. I bet that place smells terrible at times.
Touch me,young woman,as italian, italian they have giant members, all for you,the my italian member ,large mmmmmh, member member member member ❤
There must be something Italy is doing wrong and Dutch are doing right. Maybe collaborate?
the italians are italians
Simply the italians do not want to reclaim land from the sea like the dutch but to mantain the lagoon as it is.
They need waterflow to preserve the different species that lives in that habitat, mantain the passage of all the ships and protect venice at the same time.
Not an easy job to do all at once!
@@mariogendarini3238 no it’s not that… Dutch started out protecting them self against flooding. Problem is that Italy is sadly corrupt.
Dutch lack corruption beyond belief
@@loremmarston5997 come on now, italy it’s not a third world country!
Mose had corruption problems and delays like all the big projects in major countries, look at the new berlin airport.
This barrier was made that way for a lot of reasons and corruption isn’t one of those.
IT IS NOT SINKING,, THIS IS WHY EDUCATION IS SO IMPORTANT.. Water levels are rising..