Navajo and Irish language similarities
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- Опубліковано 23 лис 2021
- I've been learning Navajo (Diné bizaad) and Irish (Gaeilge) languages recently and have been struck by some similarities between them. The most striking feature they share is that both languages have personal forms of propositions.
I started learning Irish at the Oideas Gael language school on the beautiful Donegal coast (check them out at www.oideas-gael.com/en/ and @Oideasgaelbeo). I've been leaning Navajo with Duolingo and have found @daybreakwarrior 's content really useful and informative. - Комедії
Good video! My brother studied languages at the Defense Language Institute Foreign Language Center in California. The pace of study was intense. Students had to master the language course in 36-64 weeks. Psychologically it was very difficult, but fortunately he was helped by Yuriy Ivantsiv's book "Polyglot Notes. Practical tips for learning foreign languages”. The book " Polyglot Notes" became a desk book for my brother, because it has answers to all the problems that any student of a foreign language has to face. Thanks to the author of the channel for this interesting video! Good luck to everyone who studies a foreign language and wants to realize their full potential!
Thank you. Sounds like an interesting book.
Irish for people is "Duine" and pronounced almost exactly as the Navajo..
Well spotted!
Very interesting. He's understanding of Irish is way better than mine but he needs to brush up on his pronunciation
@@jfurlong25 he pronounced alot of the words better than most irish students who resort to a weird english/irish pronounciation conglomerate
Pretty close, yeah. “Diné” has final-syllable stress and a raised pitch accent, though.
'Duine' is person (singular). 'Daoine' is people.
Very nice video. I like the comparisons.
I understand where you are going... if you think about the sentences literally translated. When we use the phrase, "Mósí shił yá’át’ééh," I don't understand it as, "With me, cats are good." I understand it as, "I like cats."
For example, when I hear, "He made bank," I don't think of someone making a literal bank. I think of someone who made tons of money. Or when you say, "I'm old school." I don't think of a literal school but that the speaker does things in a more traditional sense.
I think when we learn these phrases, we need to wrap our minds around how collectively certain words are understood vs how they literally break down.
Nice video.
Your pronunciation is very good! 👍
Thanks so much for your comments. I’m honoured! I couldn’t agree more with the points you make. One of the things I love about learning languages is developing the collective understanding that you describe, so that it becomes automatic. Here I’m looking under the hood of Irish and Navajo to compare, but to learn a language you have to take it on its own terms.
I think there also a danger of exoticising languages that coin new words from existing stock. When people say Chinese for telephone means ‘electric speech’ they fail to realise that English for telephone means ‘distant voice’ using elements from Ancient Greek. When people use the word though, it just means telephone and they don’t break down the meaning.
Thanks again for taking the time to comment. It made my day to hear from you.
I knew where this video was going and yet I still watched. Goodness me, you are a treat to watch.
Great to to see someone trying our native language. I am not fluent in it, but there are just a few little corrections on the pronunciations. For - Is maith liom, maith is pronounced like you would say mah, and aige is pronounced like egg-eh. Also aici (with her) is not pronounced like Italian, it is like 'aki'.
I speak Munster Irish and his pronunciation of many words, including some of the times he says “maith”, sounds like Ulster Irish to me. I agree though that his “aici” sounded Italian.
That's a regional dialect. Munstar Irish says "maith" like "maw" and Connaught says it like "my"
Yes, sorry to have butchered the Irish a bit there. My only exposure at that time was a weekend's intensive course in the Donegal Gaeltacht - hense the Ulster pronunciation of 'maith'. I've had more lessons since and have got access to better resources now.
@@DaveHuxtableLanguages No need to apologise. We’ve been butchering the English language for hundreds of years. Go n-éirí leat.
I'm Diné and Irish American! This makes me so happy to see! 💖
So glad to hear that. Thanks for letting me know. Lá fhéile Pádraig sona dhuit! Nizhónígo St. Patrick's Day Nee Adoołee! ☘️
I clicked on a suggested video more to distract the dog from sounds outside than for something to watch, to my surprise an hour later I'm subscribed, moving onto my fourth video of yours and you're talking about Midleton where i grew up!
Fantastic. Great to have you aboard.
Love the info on Navajo and Irish. One note: Irish has no soft Gs or soft Cs. They are always hard. So you pronounced "giota" like "jitta" and "aige" like "edge a" but that's wrong. In both cases the G is hard not soft. No pronouncing G like a J. Similarly in Irish you never pronounce a C like an S.
Thanks for that. I’d had more lessons since then and hopefully now my pronunciation is much better.
@@DaveHuxtableLanguages most of Ireland will probably argue that "better" is highly subjective if you've chosen to learn Irish in Donegal :D
This is absolutely fascinating! I’m so thankful to have found your channel and also see your support of marginalised languages!
Wonderful!
This is fascinating Dave. I'm currently writing a book (fiction) but involves the Sioux tribe. Would be so helpful, if you could just tell me what this language sounds like on first hearing to European ears. Would the settlers have found it familiar in some way or completely alien? In the old westerns, any Native tribe always speak the native language as if they just learned it yesterday! Each word with a gap in between but I am sure this is not how it was spoken.
The first two things are also similar in Japanese. "To have" is the same - described by two verbs meaning "to be" but "to like" is kind of different because it's not even a verb in Japanese but strictly an adjective - so you'd say "The cat is liked (by me)"
Interesting. Thanks for sharing.
@@johnmckiernan2176 it does make it sound like a menu choice, put like that. Which in that part of the world it could well be, I guess.
I've read that goidelic languages such as Irish shares those same features with semitic languages. Built on that is the idea that early inhabitants of Ireland spoke a semitic language. The sharing of these features with Navajo neatly debunks that idea!
Glad to debunk that one. Linguistic coincidence is a thing.
at the end of the video you said "thank you" in irish as if it was addressed to a single person "agat" :) i hope you wanted to thank all of us watchers :)
I did of course want to thank everyone. I’ve noticed that lots of UA-camrs address the audience in the singular, though, as if they’re talking directly to me - the viewer.
When my wife and I were looking around a museum in Tuba City, Arizona, we heard two people speaking Navajo. I noticed that the unvoiced l (ł) sounded exactly like the ll of Welsh Gaelic.
That is incredible!
Love how your Navajo pronunciation is better than your Irish! Kindred spirit here; among our shared interests is my look into both of those languages. Navajo is preternaturally lovely, and, of course, its ł is the same as the Welsh ll, another Celtic commonality.
If you get the chance, look at these similarities among Hawaiian and the Goidelics. There are many, eg plural indefinite article “nā,” word for day “lā,” usw.
Is there an interesting video to make about the relationship between American and Irish English. I remember once speaking to a young woman at my college in London for five minutes thinking she was one of the American students before realising that she had a Dublin accent!
Good idea. I’ll add it to the list.
It's quite possible she _did_ sound American, though. Younger Irish -- and many other -- accents are increasingly influenced by the US. I remember sharing a whinge with a friend from Texas who complained that her daughter sounded too American. What she meant was that Texans were losing their drawl, y'all. Even if not quite American, the accent in Ireland is certainly more homogeneous than heretofore.
@@ps200306It's a kind of fashionable thing I think, for some young Irish people to use an American accent. I'm Irish and I find it strange! When I started university, I met several Dublin people among all the multicultire of university, and asked them if they were American (because they sounded American!). They each looked at me with a confused expression and said "no, I'm from Dublin". I'm sure it's just a trendy thing, like the no longer cool 1990s accent used in California, for example (as seen used by Hilary in The Fresh Prince of Bel-Air).
I'm only a student myself, although I was raised with a little Irish and much Hiberno-English, but your Irish pronunciation is a bit rough - while some could be chalked up to dialect, there were a few English sounds replacing Irish sounds and basic pronunciation rules broken. Without sounding cruel it's actually made me feel better about my Irish, but also recognise the wealth of the Hiberno-English I was raised with as a key to many of the native sounds and grammar of the Irish language.
I must say I was rather struck by how well the dance and music meshed in the beginning, I'm loving your videos generally (the Scots one was great) and I'd love to see you feature Irish more often.
Interesting stuff indeed!
Glad you think so!
how fascinating!
I love language enthusiasts like you
Me too!
It's an interesting topic.
But, not being familiar with either Irish Gaelic or Navajo, I struggled to keep track of which language was being referred to, and which language the example displayed came from. How about displaying on the screen the name of the language along with the example?
I hadn’t considered that possibility. Thanks for the suggestion. I’ll do that in any future comparison videos.
Navaho has SOV word order and postpositions rather than prepositions , the same as Turkish .
When you said goodbye & thank you at the end, it would have been more correct to say "go raibh maith agaibh" as you're talking to more than one person. Your channel is awesome btw :)
Glad you like the channel.
I don’t know if that’s what I was thinking at the time, but it’s supposed to be a good idea on UA-cam to address the audience in the singular to make the connection more personal.
Great video! I've been speaking Irish since I was a young fella, and found thus very interesting.
Incidently, I know the place where the lads at the start were dancing quite well, An Spideal. Irish still spoken strongly there.
That is so cool. Thanks for letting me know.
I have a Navajo wife and I am learning Navajo. Obviously she and her family will be a great resource. Where did you learn Navajo?
Hi Charles. I wish you every success with your studies. Is your wife a fluent speaker? So far, I’ve used Duolingo, which is OK to get some basic vocab. I’ve also watched as many UA-cam videos as I can find. Eventually I’ll get an online teacher.
where do i buy navajo wives
Fun to see a natural blond speak such refined Diné! (then switch gears so widely.) May I suggest that if you talked with your mouth a very slight bit more closed, the tone would be spot-on. My impression was your Diné was beautiful but with your mouth stretched a little wide. And that reminds me of a Diné teacher who once suggested that talking through a more closed mouth was a way to reduce the drying of the mouth in the desert, as the conservation of drinking water and persevering without water figures heavily in the culture. Great work, sir, cheers
I hear they have no word for 'it's my round' just like Welsh.
This is remarkable!
As an aside, did you mean to say, "Hop - ee" or "Hope - ee"? My dictionary says it's the latter.
Good vídeo!
Thanks!
❤❤❤
There is a dog at me but cats also please me.
❤
what are your thoughts on the similarities between Lingala and Japanese?
I’ll have to research that one.
Have you done a video on the similarities between Japanese and Turkish?
The particles, the word order, and stuff like that seem to make it easier for a Turkish person to learn *spoken* Japanese than for a lot of other language speakers.
Doesn't help with the written language though, which is the biggest pitfall for learners!
(Don't know if Turkish has the 'wa'/'ga' conundrum - that may be uniquely Japanese.)
We have loads in common not just language
Indeed.
Hello from Coyote Canyon NM Navajo nation USA
Ya‘at‘ééh Jonathan!
@@DaveHuxtableLanguages hello I'm not really good at in writing a novel but I can speak it very well it is very interesting what I've learned from watching your video thank you and you always walk n beauty
Every day is a school day!
Are you able to regionalise an accent accurately, to within a few square miles?
The reason I ask, is that during the Yorkshire Ripper enquiry, Detective Chief Superintendent George Oldfield, West Yorkshire Police, placed great importance on the accent of the 'suspect', received on a cassette tape goading his failure which, when analysed by so called 'language experts' was from a very small area in (I think) County Durham, almost no bigger than the size of a village.
Poor old George placed far too much importance on the tape, as the Yorkshire Ripper turned out to be Stephen Sutcliffe, a Bradfordian. Many years later, the tape was exposed as being made by a Detective Constable, whom I believe, received a term of imprisonment for wasting Police time.
My interest?... I was a serving Police Officer in Humberside Police at the time, and whilst Humberside saw no murders, every Police Force in the country was on alert, for a very long time.
Cats do very well please me, and I love it dang it!
😻
What the hell this is such a great and interesting video, why hasn't it blown up?
I know! Im still trying to work out how to please the algorithm.
@@DaveHuxtableLanguages the algorithm is a weird unpredictable mess, but honestly you have such an incredible gift to be able to organize information like this into such a digestible format, your video on anti-racism is genuinely the best explanation of our social situation I've ever seen in a video format. I hope to god you start collaborating with other UA-camrs and getting a dedicated following, you deserve way more views than you're getting and it's rare to see that, it's usually the other way around. Im gonna start sharing your videos around on discord and Reddit and whatnot, I would definitely try to post some stuff to Reddit too, they got a community for everything and you would be more than welcomed by a lot of em. Cannot Express enough gratitude and awe at your content man, keep it up!
@@GettinJiggyWithGenghis Wow. That is so kind of you. Thanks so much. The Reddit tip is a good one. I’ll try that out.
@@DaveHuxtableLanguages It's because Irish and Navajo are such minority languages. Do videos for Spanish, English, Arabic and Chinese. Watch them soar.
In the description you meant prepositions, not propositions, right?
Some languages will say, I a dog own or belongs to me, which atleast makes sense in English still.
I’m learning Portuguese right now and it’s very interesting because it seems like it uses the same verb as Spanish for like but uses it more like a transitive verb the way English says “I like something” rather than as a reflexive like Spanish “Something pleases me.” I think “Eu gostou uma coisa” -> “I like a thing” but using “am pleased” as “like”.
I think in Portuguese, it’s gostar de. I remember a song that was basically “Ella não gosta de min.” over and over.
Yáʼátʼééh!!!!! I am learning Welsh, Hawaiian, and Navajo.... Irish and Scots Gaelic are on my bucket list.... Ahéheeʼ for this video.
Wyt ti'n dysgu Cymraeg. Da iawn.👍🏴.
Very interesting video! Thank you. Your Irish pronunciation definitely needs a lot of work though :)
Thanks for letting me know. I've had two short intensive goes at learning Irish, two years apart, so that might explain it. Which were the most egregious errors?
@@DaveHuxtableLanguages
Honestly, on second listening, some of the things that struck me as "wrong" could just be features of a different dialect so for all I know you could be pronouncing everything perfectly in whatever dialect you learnt!
I'll tell you things that stood out to me (I'm also just a learner so take this with a grain of salt!)
These are the things that I'm almost certain are "incorrect" and not dialect features:
3:58 "aige" should have a hard g sound (not a j sound); "aici" should have a hard c sound (not a ch sound)
These are the things I'm less sure about:
2:33 The stress in the sentence should be on "maith" and "cait". Also "maith" should have a longer vowel sound like "maah".
3:31 "leat" should be more like "le-at" than "li-at" or even just "lat".
@@user-td4do3op2d That’s possible, since I learnt what little I know in Donegal.
@@DaveHuxtableLanguages I'm from Dublin and learned Leinster Irish. The pronunciation is very different, but yours sounds fine for Northern Ireland.
@@enigmatist666 Go raibh mile maith agat. Yes, so far my experience of Irish has been a course in Donegal and an online teacher from Belfast.
My name in English is costello but in Irish it's mac oisdealbhaigh quite a tongue twister
I had no idea yours was an Irish name. I’d always thought it was Italian.
@@DaveHuxtableLanguages Think of the singer Elvis Costello. :) In Ireland, the emphasis would be on 'Cost'; in England, it's on 'tello'.
Scots Gaelic too?
Actually the Choctaw raised about €6000 in today’s money and it was not just them but they were joined by missionaries and traders
Along with the Quakers - shipping food into Ireland as aid, at the same time the brits were shipping the food back to britland.
Re. different ways of saying I LIke: A parallel thing in French is their way of saying "I miss you.": "Tu me manques", which we anglos might read as You miss me. But the actual sense is something like: You are missing, to me.
Irish cats are kind
ua-cam.com/video/oM-l318gnB8/v-deo.html
The languages of Native Americans (Aztec, Maya, Inca, and other Native Americans) are Proto-Turkish or Turkish.
Native Americans use thousands of words in today's Eurasian and Asian Turkish.
But Native Americans have used words for thousands of years, allegedly in many Latin (Italian, Spanish), Hebrew, Arabic, and ancient Egyptian languages. How does this happen?
Scythians, Etruscans and Sumerians brought their language to the regions they dominated.
These words gave thousands of words to Latin, Hebrew, Arabic, Persian, and the ancient Egyptian language.
Immigration of Scythians from Asia to Eastern Europe Western Europe migrated to the islands of Scotland (including the Irish region) that we call Britain today.
Etruscans established states in the region of Italy and France.
The Sumerians established a state in the Mesopotamian region.
Scythians, Etruscans, Sumerians, Native Americans are Proto-Turk, their language is Proto-Turkish or Turkish.
Aztec, Maya, Inca and other Native American names of Kings, geographical places and settlements, names of Gods are Proto-Turkish or Turkish.
Etruscan, Scythian, Sumerian, Aztec, Maya, Inca, and other Native American languages are in the Proto-Turkish language group.
I'm no language expert but a language although not related can sound similar when it's spoken the pronunciation when it rolls of the tongue and the the structure is that what this video is trying to tell us??
Yes, it’s mostly about fun coincidences.
Maith an fear!
Go raibh mile maith agat!
This is really interesting! Room for improvement with the Irish pronunciation, you may have worked it out from seeing it written rather than hearing it spoken? Very impressive if so, but no substitute for hearing it spoken live.
May I ask what Irish dialect you are learning? Because that pronunciation sounds very much foreign to my Munster ears 😅
Ulster - but it had been a while, hence the errors.
@@DaveHuxtableLanguages Ah I see. Get back to it! More speakers never hurts!
How (much/deeply) do you perceive parallels between such properties of languages and the thinking and behavior of people speaking them?
Since there is such an interdependence of language and thought, I am not surprised that the concept of having something is not a thing in many languages but in the one of capitalist imperialism.
I’m not greatly convinced of any parallels. The verb ‘to have’ in English predates capitalism by millennia.
kediler bana iyi geliyor... guess the structure is similiar with turkish...athabashkan means the father,ancestor of the leader or chief...most probably around 20.000 years ago a common primitive protouniversal language was spoken,agglunitative,with ancient turkish words in siberia,and the structure even spread to europe...
Fascinating!
hi do you a know any Romani? tank you 🙏🏽❤
Sadly not, but I’m always curious about languages.
@@DaveHuxtableLanguages I a will a teach ya some my a freind 🙏🏽❤
@@DaveHuxtableLanguages I'm in awe of ya speaking so many tongues amazin a tank ya 🙏🏽❤
Your irish accent is excellent.
Wow. That’s good to hear. Thank you!
Actually, while your command of Irish vocabulary and grammar may well be superior, your pronunciation has a few wrinkles. "Aige" is pronounced EGG-A not EDGE-EH and "Maith" is pronounced MA with a fairly short A. Nonetheless, fair play to you for your broad knowledge of languages. It would be unreasonable to expect a polyglot to get it all perfect. I say this as an aging, struggling student of Irish, a language that has cracked my skull for many a year.
@DaveHuxtableLanguages I would be very interested in your opinions on the classification for irish...in terms of difficulty. Level one = dutch, afrikaans, Level 4 = chinese etc.....and you think the Level for irish ? Cos I am an attempted polyglot who marvels at how challenging irish is compared to french or Indonesian. The orthography...nightmare, the lenition & elypsis...torture, the genitive case....only for native speakers....the regional accents...mutually highly variant,
What say you Dave ?
It means resembling a stag/deer
And do you?
@@DaveHuxtableLanguages I should hope not
A shi, shi leechaa eh (that is my dog) in Navajo. I am Navajo.
The word "like" originally meant "to please" in English, as in "It likes me not."
Wow. I didn’t know that. Thank you!
@@DaveHuxtableLanguages You're very welcome!
Instead of saying there is a dog at me or of me you could say a lives with me or dwells with me
That’s true. But in these languages, we also talk about there being a problem or a car by us.
I'd like to learn abouit some similarities between Welsh and other Athabascan languages, I know the welsh ll is pronounced similarly too ł
Hi Saber. Apart from both having the ɬ sound, I can’t think of anything else they have in common.
Hi Dave Huxtable, polyglot. This is interesting, so there is connection between Navajo and Irish peoples/languages. A bit of a stretch, but it made me think of Elvis' film 'Stay Away Joe' in which he plays a Navajo indian and he had irish blood on his mothers side. Interesting stuff.
Linguistically, I think it’s more of a coincidence than a connection. There are interesting connections between people, though as you say.
@@DaveHuxtableLanguages Thanks Dave.
Yet another reason the Irish and Native Americans are long lost besties.. I'm Mohawk Indian and my gf of 17 years is Irish American and we get along perfectly.. We grew up very similarly; Big poor drunk families that love to strum guitars and sing old songs.. mine just happened to have black hair and dark skin. Other than that, very much the same.
I love this post. My mum’s family were Irish so I can relate to the drunken singing, though in our case it was round my nana’s piano.
@@DaveHuxtableLanguages exactly.. I think most oppressed peoples turn to music and sometimes alcohol.. I've been sober for years now, but back in the old days of being a barfly my Irish American best friend and I had a dream.. and that was to open the first Irish/Indian bar and call it "Tonto O'Reilly's"... Twenty years ago we could've done it, but not in today's culture. We'd be cancelled... But man, I think that would've been one hell of a joint!
There was no famine in Ireland in the 1840s
You were learning Irish and Navajo At The Same Time????? We're not worthy, we're not worthy!!!
Ma tha thu airson tuilleadh Gàidhlig na h-Èireann ionnsachadh, theirig gu Discord far a bheil mòran servers matha anns a bheil duine aig a bheil Gàidhlig uabhasach math.
Ní Gàidhlig an t-ainm, tá sé ach gaeilge, nó "irish" i mBéarla
@@needlehead9888 Tha fhios agam. Sin a thuirt mi.
Tapadh leibh airson a ’mholaidh.
@needlehead Tá Levi ag scríobh i nGaeilge na hAlban
@@leviway8874 Not exactly. You referred to 'Irish Gaelic'; it's just called Irish. :)
Go han-mhaith déanta seo 👏 Beannachtaí ó Éirinn 🇮🇪
Go raibh mile maith agat!
But call themselves, Day-nay, Diné-Navajo and Irish Duine.
Yes, that’s a cool coincidence.
...Finnish, Estonian...
Cool. I didn’t know that.
Okay. I did not know that about the Choctaw. Seriously, that is Christian (by which I mean extremely compassionate) behavior.
That.... they were better men than I.
instead of Cats please me I'd say I'm pleased by cats to give the idea 🤔
You would be better off comparing Navajo with Tibetan. The cultures have similarities also.
Sadly I’ve not yet studied Tibetan. It would be fun to see the similarities.
The were both almost destroyed by the English as well
You have a dog, but you like cats. Hmmm...peculiar.🤔
The other man’s pet is always greener. .
@@DaveHuxtableLanguages I do apologize for my attempt to be obtusely funny, I know , just couldn't resist🙂. Thanks for sharing your knowledge, it's truly fascinating.
Great video but the pronunciation is really funny for the Irish