check out the twist at the end of this integral.

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  • Опубліковано 15 січ 2025

КОМЕНТАРІ • 71

  • @sweetcornwhiskey
    @sweetcornwhiskey Рік тому +36

    Nice video! There was one step that was left out - when you perform integration by parts here, the limit as y -> infinity of sqrt(2y-1)*arctan(1/y) is zero, but there's more steps that are required to show this. This is because the limit is of type infinity * 0. It's not too difficult to show that this is zero using L'Hopital's rule though

    • @clementcoine1581
      @clementcoine1581 Рік тому +5

      Or simply use that arctan(t) ~ t in 0

    • @DrR0BERT
      @DrR0BERT Рік тому

      I agree. It isn't obvious that this would be 0.

    • @Kapomafioso
      @Kapomafioso Рік тому

      Yeah that was a little weird how quickly he went through that bit. It's not that straightforward that the term goes to 0 at oo, because the square root bit grows to oo, too, but slower than arctan(1/y) goes to 0.

  • @gregsarnecki7581
    @gregsarnecki7581 Рік тому +11

    11:53 what a superb semicircle he drew! Totally nailed all three points. That's a lot harder than it seems. Kudos Michael!

  • @laurensiusfabianussteven6518
    @laurensiusfabianussteven6518 Рік тому +10

    that real number extension is simply beautiful

  • @Hipeter1987
    @Hipeter1987 Рік тому +9

    "Spicy contour integral" - quite the teaser! 😂

  • @The1RandomFool
    @The1RandomFool Рік тому +7

    At 14:12 he's missing a factor of e^(i*theta) in the parameterization of the half circle, but the conclusion is the same.

    • @StanleyDevastating
      @StanleyDevastating Рік тому

      but in polar co-ordinates dz = r d\theta . Isn't he just using that?

    • @The1RandomFool
      @The1RandomFool Рік тому +2

      @@StanleyDevastating If z = R*e^(i*theta), then dz = R*i*e^(i*theta) * dtheta. He moved R*i outside the integral, but missed the factor of e^(i*theta) in the integrand.

  • @byronwatkins2565
    @byronwatkins2565 Рік тому +1

    At 20:35, sqrt(2y-1) approaches infinity making that an indeterminate form and making it NOT obvious that the limit is zero.

  • @Ravi-ng3ee
    @Ravi-ng3ee Рік тому +4

    Make a playlist for integrals!!!

  • @juniorcyans2988
    @juniorcyans2988 Рік тому +1

    Amazing!

  • @Zaxx70
    @Zaxx70 Рік тому +1

    9:05 When t tends towards infinity, there is an indetermined form infinity times zero, should have done a bit more work to show that the limit is indeed zero.

  • @pawel_maslanka
    @pawel_maslanka Рік тому +1

    that was indeed a really surprising twist, i did not expect that

  • @thierrytitou3709
    @thierrytitou3709 Рік тому

    At 9:08 :
    sqrt(2y-1)×arctan(1/y) = sqrt(2)×[y^(1/2)]×sqrt(1 - 1/2y)×
    [1/y + O((1/y^3))] and therefore is equivalent to sqrt(2)×y^(-1/2) as y -> +oo thus the limit is 0

  • @SEJEONGLEE-h1g
    @SEJEONGLEE-h1g Рік тому +1

    Dear Dr. Penn,
    thank you for your nice work, excellent board schemes and well-prepared explanations. It is a real joy to watch and learn from your videos.
    Can I suggest that, in case you tackle integrals, it might be good to show how the functions (integrand) graphically look like.
    Thank you!
    P.M.H.

  • @Calculus58
    @Calculus58 Рік тому +1

    I found it easier to differentiate both sides of the t substitution at the start, then substitute for cos and sin in terms of t and rearrange. Saves having to remember the derivative of inverse cos.

  • @erfanmohagheghian707
    @erfanmohagheghian707 4 місяці тому

    I was surprised that you didn't even mention that the square root is multivalued and you need either a branch cut or semicircle around z=1/2
    It's true that the integral will turn out zero, but leaving it out was bad.

  • @Noam_.Menashe
    @Noam_.Menashe Рік тому +4

    Don't you need to isolate x=1/2 from the contour? It's where a branch cut happens.

    • @xizar0rg
      @xizar0rg Рік тому +1

      I believe that happens in his argument explaining why we only need the Real part of the contour integral.

    • @nameless3556
      @nameless3556 Рік тому +1

      I agree that this should at least have been brought up. I'm very rusty on contours and complex square root functions, though.

    • @SuperSilver316
      @SuperSilver316 Рік тому

      How he chose to do this avoids this particular hiccup, but I would in general I would have opted for a keyhole contour around with a branch cut taken from (-inf,1/2). That makes for a harder problem overall since you need to estimate the circle around the branch point also, but you should ultimately arrive at the same answer.
      You could also avoid it by make the variable change 2t-1 = z^2, and contour integrating that rational expression, but I need to look at that a little deeper just to make sure, this just gets rid of the square root and also the branch point by proxy.

    • @SuperSilver316
      @SuperSilver316 Рік тому

      Yup both methods I suggested yield the same answer, if you go the route of branch point you have to be very careful with how you compute residues for, as your choice branc will determine what those square root functions will yield.

  • @bot24032
    @bot24032 Рік тому +2

    9:08 is it not 0*infinity?..

    • @emanuellandeholm5657
      @emanuellandeholm5657 Рік тому +3

      the inverse tangent "wins". Try L'H or a truncated Taylor series

    • @bot24032
      @bot24032 Рік тому +1

      @@emanuellandeholm5657 ok. still believe this should have been said though

    • @emanuellandeholm5657
      @emanuellandeholm5657 Рік тому

      @@bot24032 sure

  • @Alan-zf2tt
    @Alan-zf2tt Рік тому

    lol @ ~ 13:00
    Is it Re as in Real or is it Re as in R times exp( # )?
    Nice and subtle for sure 🙂

  • @reubenmanzo2054
    @reubenmanzo2054 Рік тому +5

    Actually, the numerator in the y substitution can be simplified.
    z=arctan(1/y)
    tan(z)=1/y
    y=1/tan(z)=cot(z)
    z=arccot(y)
    Therefore, arctan(1/y)=arccot(y)

    • @TheEternalVortex42
      @TheEternalVortex42 Рік тому +7

      How is that helpful though?

    • @leif1075
      @leif1075 Рік тому

      Can't younsolve WITHOUT the second substitution and just skip to integrationnby parts?

    • @reubenmanzo2054
      @reubenmanzo2054 Рік тому +1

      @@leif1075 It looks cleaner, which 90% of the time, means the process will be cleaner as well.

    • @leif1075
      @leif1075 Рік тому

      @reubenmanzo2054 but you can still.solve if you skip the second substitution and go into integration by parts directly as i wouldhave done, can't you? Thanks for answering. Not sure how someone would think it would look cleaner though unless you've seen this type of problem before.

    • @reubenmanzo2054
      @reubenmanzo2054 Рік тому

      @@leif1075 From experience, you're usually better of with a stand alone variable, than dealing with a reciprocal. This is especially the case when working with differentiation and integration because you won't have to worry about the chain rule.

  • @holyshit922
    @holyshit922 Рік тому +1

    My approach
    t = tan(x) substitution
    Integration by parts with
    u = arctan(2/(1+t^2)) dv = dt
    After my propositions we should get integral of rational function
    2Int(2t^2/(t^4+2t^2+5),t=0..infinity)
    2(Int((t^2+sqrt(5))/(t^4+2t^2+5),t=0..infinity) + Int((t^2 - sqrt(5))/(t^4+2t^2+5),t=0..infinity))
    2(Int((1+sqrt(5)/t^2)/(t^2+2+5/t^2),t=0..infinity) + Int((1 - sqrt(5)/t^2)/(t^2+2+5/t^2),t=0..infinity))
    Int((1+sqrt(5)/t^2)/(t^2+2+5/t^2),t=0..infinity)
    u = t-sqrt(5)/t
    Int((1 - sqrt(5)/t^2)/(t^2+2+5/t^2),t=0..infinity)
    v = t + sqrt(5)/t
    Or we can do partial fraction decomposition

    • @richardheiville937
      @richardheiville937 Рік тому

      I have proceeded in the same way!

    • @SuperSilver316
      @SuperSilver316 Рік тому

      Interestingly enough, a function as crazy as this, does admit to an anti derivative that has a closed form Solution, it’s defined rather wildly with ar tangents and imaginary units but it’s a pretty cool result if you play around with it.

    • @holyshit922
      @holyshit922 Місяць тому

      In fact one of these substitutions for integral of rational function will be problematic on this interval
      so partial fraction decomposition seems to be better option
      Indefinite integral also can be quite easily calculated

  • @gp-ht7ug
    @gp-ht7ug Рік тому +1

    Was it necessary to pass through a contour integral?

  • @monikaherath7505
    @monikaherath7505 Рік тому +3

    Question: how do people come up with or discover such crazy integrals?
    Do people just stumble upon it while solving crazy integrals? Or are there Ramanujan-like mathematicians out there who are able to just "see" things like this or "sense" that such integrals will have special results?

    • @ianbennett2443
      @ianbennett2443 Рік тому +1

      im not super sure but i'd imagine a lot of the time people start with a result and work backwards. like for indefine integrals, it's easy to come up with a weird function, differentiate it, then put the derrivative under an integral, and then give that integral to someone. it also might be pattern recognition, where when people solve a *lot* of integrals, they start to notice that when you have "this thing" in the integrand, then the result will look like "this other thing", and then the process would be combining different "things" you think are interesting/funny into one intergral in a new way, and seeing if you can solve the intergral you just made.

    • @MrMctastics
      @MrMctastics Рік тому

      The same question could be asked of all further mathematics

    • @TomFarrell-p9z
      @TomFarrell-p9z Рік тому +1

      Mathematicians get to pick their integrals. Engineers and physicists have to solve (or not) the ones they are given! 🙂

    • @КонстантинАлександрович-г5э
      @КонстантинАлександрович-г5э Рік тому

      @ianbennett2443 Is it much different to what Ramanujan did?

    • @CM63_France
      @CM63_France Рік тому

      One method is to perform a "zero's order integration" as Michael call them and explained us a while ago. You can start with a function as crazy as you want.

  • @Happy_Abe
    @Happy_Abe Рік тому

    Why is there an iR before the integral at 13:45

    • @inigovera-fajardousategui3246
      @inigovera-fajardousategui3246 Рік тому +2

      When differentiating the parametrization z=Re^itheta, you get dz=iRe^itheta and then you pull iR out of the integral

    • @Happy_Abe
      @Happy_Abe Рік тому +1

      @@inigovera-fajardousategui3246 why do we differentiate the parameterization?
      Isn’t there a missing e^itheta then in the integral?

    • @SuperSilver316
      @SuperSilver316 Рік тому

      He might have dropped the term, but we do need the differential of our parametrization

    • @Happy_Abe
      @Happy_Abe Рік тому

      @@SuperSilver316 why’s that?
      I’m not familiar with the concept

    • @neilgerace355
      @neilgerace355 Рік тому

      ​@Happy_Abe Yes but at 14:30 he shows the integral goes to 0 anyway.

  • @gilperalta4068
    @gilperalta4068 Рік тому

    In real life, from a layman's perspective, what hypothesis does the original equation try to show or represent?

  • @davode76166
    @davode76166 Рік тому

    @maths_505 can you solve it by Feynman technic? For example with d/da arctan(a.(cosx)^2)/(cosx)^2)?

  • @rainerzufall42
    @rainerzufall42 Рік тому

    It doesn't change anything of the argument, but how do you get i R in front of the integral? z = R e^(i \theta) => dz = i R e^(i \theta) d\theta [ = i z d\theta ]. Okay, I admit, that explains i R, but where's the missing e^(i \theta) gone? It is lost! But as I said, it doesn't change the argument for R -> \infinity...

    • @rainerzufall42
      @rainerzufall42 Рік тому

      @The1RandomFool concluded this in a shorter comment... ;-)

    • @davidcroft95
      @davidcroft95 Рік тому +1

      Just a classic Micheal Penn mistake

    • @rainerzufall42
      @rainerzufall42 Рік тому +2

      @@davidcroft95 I believe, he does it intentionally! He wants critical thinking from the viewers!

    • @rainerzufall42
      @rainerzufall42 Рік тому +1

      Or it's just laziness! ;-)

  • @leif1075
    @leif1075 Рік тому

    Jesus Christ WHY IN GODS NAME WOULD ANYONE substitue t for 1/y thats random and out of nowbere..why not solve witbout thst substitution..like uae integration by larts at that point or substitue the whole sqrt 2t -t^2 ewuals y would make so much more sense..come on now.

    • @d-nize
      @d-nize Рік тому +1

      0 is a Pole in This case.
      Improper Integrals are easier to handle. Thats why you substitute t=1/y.