Why don't they do all these stuff in the factory? I mean, Gibsons are expensive, the least they could do is to give you a perfect instrument for the price you pay.
+Wilson Phillips Played a 2015 les paul a couple days ago, sounded god damn fantastic but it did suck with this issue. The PRS on the other hand with the locking Phase 3 tuners Omfg that thing was just perfect.
'Cause they are lazy and sell overpriced crap. There is no part of a Gibson that is better than any other guitar brand. The sound is from the pickups and nothing else. And i don't even find the sound of most of them appealing. Sure they sound good in the hands of talented people w/ tons of electronic equipment. And Phil's sounds good too. But so do Fenders and even Epiphones. The Casino is a great machine. Personally if i had to go on sound alone, i would look at Gretsch. Those and Rickenbaker are the only two that really stand out to me. You're right. Gibson should set up their stuff and fix the problems. Why do you and i have to "Punk" them out to get them to work right. You and i could probably think of ways to fix the problems in about ten minutes. I don't like Gibson. And don't see the need for a set in neck. Unless it's to make the guitars impossible to fix. Anyway, good call.
I have three Gibsons; a Les Paul Custom, an ES-335 and an ES Artist. They are all prone to G and B strings going flat for the reason described very well in this video IF I leave strings on too long and I don't lubricate the nut. It really is such a simple thing to fix and usually only needs to be done once per string change, right at the start. I string-up but leave the top E, B and G loose then lift the strings out of the nut grooves and rest them on the top of the nut. I get a pencil and a knife and scrape the lead over the grooves of the nut and fill them up with powdered graphite. Drop the strings back in the grooves, blow away the loose graphite, tune up and forget about going out of tune. This has always worked for me.
Sorry but don't believe a 2k guitar should come with dinks or need to be levelled etc. Especially not when Gibson claim your guitar is 'professionally set up' in the factory. Its all down to price. If you want to be a top-dollar luxury brand you need to provide luxury or you devalue the brand. Its that simple really. Gibson have been devaluing their brand for 15 years and sales have shown that.
+cgavin1 I couldn't agree more. I had a friend who spent $3000 on a new Les Paul Standard a few months ago, and he brought it to me because he thought it should play better. He was right! The intonation was about as far out as it could get. The neck had a bow like a 30 year old 12 string, and to top it all off, it had terrible hum even with the volumes turned all the way down! I did the set up things for him, but he took it to a Gibson authorized repair center for the hum. They told him it was "normal with the hot pickups". He wisely sent it back and they sent him a different one that was just as poorly set up, but thankfully it didn't have the hum. Fast forward to Christmas morning. I had a Gretsch Double Jet in my Amazon cart that my wife found and bought for me. It was for a Variax transplant, so I wanted something cheap. This little $500 Chinese guitar is flawless! Gorgeous glossy black finish, perfect setup and the sound is just fantastic! So good that I'm squeamish about the potential transplant damage now! It wildly exceeded my expectations. For that same $3K my friend spent on a Gibson Les Paul, I bought a U.S. made Teye Coyote that kicked his Les Paul's asses in every single way. And for $2500 less, my little Chinese Gretsch is a better guitar. I think there's something seriously wrong with that myself. And I thought I always wanted a Les Paul in my collection. I'm over it.
I was really going to buy a gibson and the more i think about it the more i realize that I could put my money into another company and will get a guitar that wont NEED anything...
That was my experience anyway. I bought a beautiful PRS SE Tremonti in December 2015 from GC. I'm glad I sent in the warranty card. I'd seen a video of Paul Smith saying to give his guitars a little time to settle. Well I did what he asked me to do. But after about 4 months and two professional setups I had to admit to myself that the guitar had tuning stability problems that needed repair. PRS customer service gave me an RA number and I had to let my new PRS go for 6 weeks, on two separate occasions. They simply did not get the guitar fixed. So, due to my persistence they set up a special return through Guitar Center where I was given a full return, provided that I used the money to buy from GC. During that time I learned from the tech at GC that mine wasn't the only SE that had to be returned. So it's academic, to me anyway. Low end PRS has a tuning stability problem, and at least at that level they are no better than Gibson. Thanks
I've had 3 Les Paul models all made in the 1970's, they ALL had great tone but if you played them hard non would stay in tune, I found this surprising as coming from playing US Fender Strats for years the LP felt like a really solid better made instrument. If you used really heavy gauge strings and played Jazz it was fine but if you used 9 or 10 gauge strings and played rock you would have to tune-up after EVERY song, even my Strat's with their crappy 6 screw tremeloes stayed in tune better.Eventually I took mine to a local tech, he re-cut the slots in the nut and used a lead pencil to lube the slots, after that I had almost no more tuning problems. He said that almost ALL Gibson's factory nuts slots were way too shallow so the difference between an open and fingered string was so big it made tuning almost impossible. It came down to a poorly finished $10 part making a $1000 masterpiece sound like junk.I recently got a great deal on a PRS SE 22, same problem, a shoddy nut made it almost unusable, had the nut slots re-cut and WOW, this baby plays like butter, sounds great and as long as I don't get too crazy with the factory trem it will say in tune for the whole gig.
I have issue with my `93 studio, all the string goes sharp a bit when I playing power chords, but especially sharp is 6th string.It is really as you described, if I play with just a little bit attack 6th sting goes very sharp and after returns back in normal sounding. Does chanching nut really helps with it? Can it be a tune o matic seddles issue aswell?
i appreciate how honest you are about tuning stability. there are way too many people who like to claim that other people struggle with tuning stability because of a "lack of knowledge" and that they alone have solved those issues with certain strings and expertise.
yeah pretty much all gibby had that issue. first thing i do when i got a gibby are change the nut to tusq xl, fix the shap edge of the fret (gibby really got a crappy shap fret), change pot and cap and re setup the guitar. i dont really use locking tuner, i think the kluson did a fairly good job as long as you know how to restring with vintage kluson tuner. (actually you better off refret the whole fingerboard, gibby E string kept getting caught between the edge of the fret where it meets the binding, tho they fix this already on 2014 model)
If you use a pencil and graphite each slot on the nut, you will find this improves tuning issues greatly. Also make sure your intonation is set correctly at the bridge.
Cannot speak for others but every guitar I buy (new or used) gets a setup immediately. I prefer to use luthiers over music stores but YMMV depending where you live. Why? well then when you play it it's in the best state it can be AND a good luthier can point out any flaws and usually fix them at the same time/tell you to go back and get the store to fix it. One pointed out an unnoticed bridge crack for example on a Guild I'd bought and the shop admitted the fault/repaired it. if you've spent 1-4k on an instrument then it's silly IMHO a) to expect the factory setup to be your choice/optimum - how did they know you were going to buy it??? b) to worry about the $60-100 extra it costs for the checkup/setup so it's exactly the way you want it. Now these are my thoughts and not gospel but hope they help the undecided. One weird thing - every epiphone I've bought (SG's, Firebird, 1275, Joe Pass epi Jazzer etc) new or used keeps tune BETTER than the Gibson model of it I have???
@@OnlineMusicSwap Meh… I’ve switch to Apple in 2012… ditched my Androids for iPhones and my PC’s for all Macs… and honestly, have not had a single issue in what, 10 solid years now with heavy use. Not one single freeze up, not one single file corrupted or lost. I’m still using the 2012 MacBook daily for everything from Logic Pro to video editing… I know this may not be the case for everyone, but it seems to be the same for everyone I know who runs all Apple. Now, as for the Gibson issues… Gibson should have started fixing those issues when they decided to sell sub-par guitars for $2,000-$8,000 Fenders, PRS, hell, even my BC Rich run solid for a fraction of the cost. Love my SG, but I would be miffed if I spent thousands on it.
The zero fret adjustment nuts are pretty decent. My latest Gibson came with one fitted and its great. It allows more string adjustments and I believe it helps with any problems you might have with the D and G strings. That Guitar also turned up perfectly setup. I've really not had to worry about anything other than getting rid of the silly G-force tuning system.
Love my Hagstrom, after a roller bridge and a Zero glide nut were installed.Much much better. This was less expensive than a new guitar. A string buddy seems like a good idea also.
So true. I've bought a 2017 HP Gibson studio and the titanium nut has really helped a lot. One of the best Les Pauls I have ever played. The tuners I love and the Burst buckers are fabulous!
Hi Phil, thank you for all the knowledge. Not a tuning issue but a Gibson question for you: I've noticed a lot of Gibsons I've owned and played have a fret board that seems slightly smaller than the neck causing a little edge. Never really bothered me to play on, but I'm wondering if that's an issue, or a normal thing? Never had that issue with a fender or any other brand I've owned.
Mt Strat rarely if ever goes out of tune. Leo got it right! I do love my Les Paul, but it's always out of tune. Thanks for the advice Phillip. I might put it in for a setup.
What most people don't know is that Les Paul actually had a big blowup with Gibson right around 1960 and was in talks with Fender to bring his name and endorsement there. Gibson got wind of it and did whatever it took to keep him in the fold. That's one of the reasons the double-cutaway LP was called the SG after 1961. He designed it for Mary Ford, but he hated that guitar. (Personally, I love it. I have a '68. I wish I had a '61 or better.)
I was just in GC yesterday looking at a $2800 Les Paul. I was commenting to my wife that I couldn't believe a guitar at that price would have dings and obvious paint runs and defects. They may sound great, but at that price I want it to be perfect.
Man!!! Thank you so much! I just bought an SG and just like the story goes I paid a bunch and it jjust wouldnt stay in tuned! I was so discouraged! But thanks to you now I know! Thanks!!!
When someone taught me a different way of putting new strings on i never had tuning problems ever again. Before you wind the string loop the string under and then over then when you wind the string it locks itself down. There should be some videos out there showing it. I use 10 1/2 size strings. just that 1/2 makes for a bit of a thicker tone when doing leads on the high E. I play classic rock and blues so i do alot of bends. Well that's just what worked for me there can be so many reasons why the guitar won't stay in tune.
I buy a lot Gibson Les Pauls, Custom Shop VOS to be exact and i must say, I don't think i have ever come across a tuning problem, Maybe a fret to high every now and then.
I'll give you a tip for fixing the nut issue without replacing it!!! You accurately described the sharp and the releasing of tension through subsequent playing after tuning. What you do (you'll need nut files) is round over the curvature from the bridge side to the tuning head side (so it has a radius to change the angle) and polish out on the final bend so the string has a path to bend without encountering the factory sharp bends! Step 2 is this won't work
Les Paul need big gauge strings to stay in tune, never forget that Les Paul was a Jazz player and they use heavy gauges strings. Mine (well, actually a high end japanese made Tokai) is loaded with 10-52 and never goe out of tune stock!
That's just not true. Les Paul's original design used very large necks compared to modern LP's. Since the original LP's were in production for only 4 years, didn't sell well and disappeared, only to return in 1968 with slimmer necks and lighter bodies, there's no hard and fast rule for string gauge. Some guys use 9's, some use 12's and they come with 10's. Purely up to a given player's taste. Pretty much any guitar can be set up to work with any gauge of strings, it's mostly a matter of neck relief and ensuring the nut is cut to the correct size. And 10's are not considered to be "big gauge strings." What they need to stay in tune is proper set up.
John B You might be right, but in my experience, stock les paul tend to stay in tune when loaded with heavy gauges strings. And Les Paul was using heavy gauges, so say that the guitar is designed for heavyer gauge is not, in my opinion, out of topic. I am totaly aware of the case gibbons who use ultra lite gauge, but his guitar are barelly a les paul, they are reworked in deep so that they will be used with light gauges...just my point of view, but it works without any mods or magic nut sauce and stuff.
As a kid...I hated play my dad's guitar because the strings were heavy...I actually used . 08 on a gibson sonix. Everytime I play cat scratch fever it go out of tune.lmao....i used ,10 on 24.7 and ,09 on 25.5 My dad also got me a real Gibson gold with the p-90. i hated that guitar..becuase it nevered stayed in tune...even after he installed groovers bridge and tunners,..That was back in the mid 70's. He still paid $800 for that used intunable guitar...back when,.lol Recently got a couple of LP kits..The string that came with them were slinkies...Holy fucked wow. They're light..kind of like the way i had it when I was a kid (becuase my hand didnt have enough strength yet) Installed .10...The guitar came to life..Fuller tones..ect Plus no tnning issues. Epip or asian made guitar has less headstock tilt. Less binding..it is what it is. Im not a jazzy type of player. it's not music theory or special musical term for me to bend the living shit out of notes.lmao i play alot of blues...All 12 notes works just that same.
I'll give you a tip for fixing the nut issue without replacing the nut! You accurately described the sharp angles of the nut and the releasing of tension through subsequent playing after tuning. What you do (you'll need nut files) is round over the curvature from the bridge side to the tuning head side (so it has a radius to change the angle) and polish out on the final bend so the string has a path to bend without encountering the factory sharp bends! This is important to when your tuning the strings that you always tune upwards a give them a bends to ensure that the string tensions even out over the nut. Unless you have a Floyd Rose or are constantly doing Major third bends it will be far better! The whole design of the 18 degree headstock angle is a major element of the sustain of the design!
I have a lot of trouble with my 2012 Gibson Firebird staying in tune but I don't notice a radical angle on the strings between the tuners and the nut. Mostly I have trouble with the high E, B & G strings.
which nut do you recommend - bone? other? some people say buy lock? tuners. i have 5 yr old traditional les paul that has great sound but g string goes out of tune easily. love yr channel - what an education!
9 років тому+1
If I were to purchase a Gibson or Epiphone accoustic, would I be facing the same issue(s)? Love their accoustic lineups.
+stan broniszewski All acoustics will have some of this issue, but the bigger strings and a hard nut material make it less of an issue. Plus without bending strings the issue is not a big deal.
My fix for this problem with any guitar that I buy and do the setup on, which I do to any new/used guitar that I buy, is to take a set of nut files, and I will use a file that is just a hair bigger than the original string slot and file it out to match the original string slot, just a hair wider so that the string sits inside the slot better, then I will take that same file and on the side of the string nut that faces the tuning keys, I will carefully file the string slot at an angle facing the particular tuning key that the string will be bound to...it takes care of the string pinch, plus you don't have to lube the string slots. It has always worked perfect for me...yeah, it's a little extra work but it's worth it. At one time I used to literally MAKE my own string nuts for each guitar to alleviate the problem, but I found it easier to just do a little filing and problem solved. I also file the string saddles so that the slot has a more "rounded" shape for the string to rest in instead of the typical "V" shape that they use, that also helps tremendously, and also helps with the intonation settings. Just a few tricks that I have learned along the way.
Thanks for posting this video. I've been playing for 27 years, finally bought a new Les Paul Classic, and was very disappointed. The tuning has been a major issue (all my Fenders stay in tune). I've noticed the G and B strings don't stay in tune. Thanks for explaining.
I added a fine tuning tail piece and an above the nut string clamp, I did this on my LP, SG and on my Explorer no string clamp necessary because Gibson used Grover Tuners and the string bind isn't an issue. When I was playing in a band year round I would take my guitars in once a year to my guitar guy and have him check my intonation, frets, truss rod adjustment, test my tone and volume pots, and what ever else needed to be done. Another worthwhile investment is strap locks on all your guitars and straps. Especially if your gonna spend $2000 or whatever. I don't play much these days but when I pull any of those guitars out of the case they are still perfectly in tune.
i have a fender american deluxe strat with the schaller locking tuners never goes out of tune after stretching the strings even with using the tremlo in a floating position. it stays in tune better than my floyd rose equipped metal machine.
Day two since I have my new 2015 Gibson Les Paul Standard. It's running out of tune all the time after I hit some chords. I already spent about 5 hours playing it, the new strings should be already stretched. I starting to nervous.
At that point strings should be stretched. Did you try Lubing the nut slots? If not try D addario lubrekit. Big bends nut sauce, I little tiny bit of vasoline, or a pencil. All of these thing can stop it from falling out of tune. But if you use one of them and it still falls out of tune, but not as bad then you know it's the nut or the keys. Don't worry there is no Gibson I have worked on that couldn't be great. They make great guitars. Worst case take it to a good tech that you trust or has good reputation.
Interesting. I currently own four Gibson's; three LP's and an SG. All of them stay in tune. I previously owned a Nighthawk and two additional Les Paul's. I don't recall having issues with them staying in tune either. Weird.
+RT VIT Same here. I have never had any tuning issues, for the exception of my 1991 SG Special. Before I had a professional setup, the G would always go out of whack. Never any problems with my 2009 LP Traditional, 2012 LP Jr. Special Humbucker, or my 2014 LP Traditional Pro II. My Trad Pro II came with .09-.46, which is what she always gets now (Hybrid Slinky's), and all of my other Gibsons get .10-.46 (Slinky's on my other LP's and GHS Boomers on my SG).
Hey Phillip, I have a question for you. I've always wanted a Les Paul Silverburst preferably custom, but I found a 2008 standard for $1700. My question to you is, is that price fair considering Gibson's quality issues as of the last decade? It has an ebony fretboard and is in pretty decent condition. It has Gibson style tuners but I'm definitely going to switch those to Grovers. I would appreciate any kind of feedback!
Adam Nihei I always think a Les Paul and Strat or good purchases. Someone is always looking to buy a Gibson or Fender and it will not change for a while. If anything what I have seen is Les Paul prices going up because no one wants the new ones. Ebony is also a good thing because Gibson will not do a lot of Ebony anymore. $1700 feels high and $1500 would be a sweeter price because worst case they are worth $1200 and High they can go for $1900 so it is nice to be somewhere between. Gibson's quality has always sucked and they never effects price its more of a wow I wish they would care a little more.
Phillip McKnight I have a 2002 SG Special and a 2015 SG Standard, in my opinion the quality has improved hugely. I even like the GForce as it's really useful. I hate changing strings and I'm very lazy about tuning and love technology.
My 1978 25/50 Anniversary LP Custom (see pic on the left) used to have tuning issues back in the day, but since a switched to elixir strings years ago, and started properly stretching them out when putting on a fresh set, it stays in tune as well as any other guitar i've owned. that's my experience. oh, my LP has a beautiful brass nut, so that doesn't hurt either. thanks for your vids!
I agree Phillip. Ive owned many gibsons and the tuning issue was always there. In the old days every one just took a pencil and rub the string slots to lubricate and it fixes the issue no probleemo.....
Since part of the tuning stability with Gibson’s involves the way the strings get bound up at the nut, what are your thoughts about routing the nut out at each string so that as soon as the string enters the nut slot there is no nut material on either side of the string for the string to get bound up on? Think of a series of hollowed out V’s on the nut at each nut slot.
hey Phillip I've recently acquired a 2013 Gibson les paul standard plus top and it does suffer from the D/Games string tuning issue. has a a stock corian nut. should it be filed by a Luther to better the break angle? or would you recommend using a different nut. something akin to the zero glide nut which can be retrofitted. thanks for reading. hope to hear from you soon. Paul, UK
When my studio is in tune it sounds amazing, after 1 song it sounds outta tune ... would locking tuners help? This Gibson I have is awesome sounding and it’s depressed me about the tuning issues.
Regarding fender: my squier strat stays in tune almost perfectly. However, if I put on the tremolo bar it goes out of tune. Not even if I use it, just if I put it on, all the strings go sharp. Then when I use it, it knocks my guitar out of tune. Basically I just don't use it. How is this a functional device at all?
yeah right, D/G not a design flaw lol. I have a different issue: bought used studio pro. All strings go flat by the same amount, and occasionally sharp by the same amount on my tuner. Not a half step, but maybe half that mount on the dial. I know heating and cooling do this, but this seems excessive just sitting around my apt. Is this a truss rod issue, like its giving or moving or what? My tele does not do this nonesense. thanks
I had this problem with my ES345TD but not with any other of my Gibson/Epiphone models. I cured the problem with as you say, a proper set-up but my tech found that flat wound strings with a wound G string insured constant stability in tuning. I know that the "rockers" balk at flat wound strings but they have become standard on all my "ES" type guitars for the past 20+ years. Just a tip that I hope that it will help....
I have a 2014 les paul studio with tuning issues. Think I'll replace thr nut. Also the frets are so tall if you squeeze a chord too much it sounds out of tune. Should i get the frets filed?
Four years ago I changed a 1983 Les Paul Standard to a Graphtech nut and Graphtech saddles (installed into the original TOM bridge). This combination greatly reduced the tuning issues and then near-zero tuning problems with a whisp of "Door-Ease" (oily wax) in the nut slots. The biggest improvement was far less string breakage (at the bridge). But.... that was my fault. In close inspection, the original metal saddles were badly string cut (and a few were very sharp) after 28 years. So... now I realize saddles don't last forever. I was worried there might have been a loss of treble or sustain with the "plastic/epoxy/magic/what-ever" saddles. The sustain seemed fine.... IF there was a bit of treble loss.... it was easily restored with the amplifier. I'm glad you have a nice light LP. This 1983 has to be one of the heaviest around... it's brutal snd seems to get heavier as we get older. Still, it's an awesome instrument.
Bill here. Another issue you didn't mention is how much of an downward angle the strings have as they come over the nut to the tuning posts on a Gibson. That sharp angle causes a lot of friction between the nut slot and strings. I've found as one is winding the strings around the tuner posts, you can relieve much of that friction and string binding by winding the strings from the bottom of the posts up to the top of the post., rather than winding from the top to the bottom as it is generally done. You can decrease that sharp angle a good amount by winding in this way. It help GOBS to stay in tune. Try it, you'll see!
Wow good video , my Gibson midtown custom g string always falls out of tune and it takes a good few winds to get it "locked" in a sense. This can be really annoying during a studio rehearsal, also the nut that Gibson put on it was absolutely atrocious I had to get it swapped out with a real one immediately. But who am I kidding ? I love it to bits and I love the comments I hear about how it looks . Great guitar for the money , you can't get a custom for that money (£800)
I'm looking to get back into playing. Is there a brand out there that has the distortion sound of a Gibson, flat sort of wide neck, maybe a Floyd locking system that will stay in tune? Looking for AC/DC type sound.
Thanks, I feel better now. Q: I bought a new 2015 ES335 Studio and I really love it but it does have issues. Mainly 14th fret and higher the sustain drops off dramatically especially on the G string and I've had to raise the action higher than I'd like to make it better but it's still not awesome. Could it be a neck relief (or lack of it) issue even though the point of issue is located at the body more than the neck? Could it be fret issues? I suppose I should take it to a luthier but how do I find a good one?
The nut can cause problems only when tuning the guitar in. However, if the guitar is not staying in tune after it is tuned in, it is usually the problem of tuning machines. My LP Custom was not able to stay in tune at all. After 2 years I replaced original Grover machines with another ( noname cheap brand ) and the tuning issues are over. I wonder if Gibson even checks the guitars before dispatching. Anyway, it was my last Gibson.
Thanks to all who have replied back to me about Gibson Guitars and problems, etc. I was wondering about a comment made about the tuneamatic bridge. Should I consider a Fabre bridge setup with, titanium saddles for the wound strings? I think I will start with a lube either the d'addario or big bends nut sauce. There is nothing like the sound and the feel of a Gibson neck, and guitar, but at this point it is very irritating. I picked up a stratocaster, had not been played in months, absolutely perfect tuning, right out of the case. aahhhhhhh anxiety?
Just traded my 2014 LP trad in for a 2016 LP standard. The tuning stability on the 16 is amazing. The graphtech nut is so much better on the standard model. I don't know if the 2016 traditional has a better nut now though? Anyhow, I'm really impressed with the tuning on my new Gibson and it has locking tuners which I'm sure help stability.
I have had five Gibsons. A LP Classic, LP Traditional, A LP Custom, and a SG Standard, plus a very old J-45 acoustic I bought as my first guitar when i was 16. The only one that had issues was the SG. The neck was glued in with a little too much angle, which meant the stop bar had to be high so the angle over the saddles was not too much. Was not an issue for me because I wrap my strings around the stop bar. Was a fantastic guitar apart from that. Really nice to play and had a real attitude. it was 2009 or so GC run in vintage cherry with zebra pups. The trad was 2012 and was really nice to play too. Lacked the attitude of the SG. More of a sweet tone than bark and bite of the SG. The Classic had a great tone and played very nicely, but I messed it up putting EMGs in it when I was in a Zakk phase. I gave it to my nephew to get him to stay in school. I think it was about a 2006 one. I wore the frets out on that gat twice. The LP Custom was in the 90s. It was a Custom Shop thing. It had the Custom Shop logo inlaid in the headstock. I remember it being very nice but that's all. I remember not liking that it was heavily chambered in the end. Elegant series. I get a hankering for a Strat every now and then, but I never keep them for long. I just don't get on with them like I do Gibsons. I also sometimes buy an Ibanez, Charvel or Jackson if i am getting all shreddy. I sell them pretty quickly too. I am a one guitar guy. I get used to the one I like most and stick with it. Different strokes etc. I sold all my music gear to move from NZ to USA to get married (guitars are much cheaper in USA, so did not seem such a bad thing at the time). That did not work out, so have a PRS SE 245 for now. it has a really great tone with the SD pups it now has, but I do not like the neck. It's a pig to play no matter what I do to the setup. I also really dislike the stopbar bridge and the way it does not intonate very well. Affects playing high up the neck the most when doing semitone bends. I am getting used to it and compensating like I guess tele players learn to, but will get another Gibson sooner or later when money situation is healthy again. p.s. I remember buying a Les Paul cloned body and neck that was unfinished. I had all the binding and routing done etc. It was in 1988 or so in Auckland. I got it quite cheaply. Apparantly made by somebody in Califonia. I needed some cash so took it too the music shop. They took one look at it, got all excited and whipped out a bunch of cash. I wonder what it was and where it ended up. It was a work of art. I sold a pre law suit ibanez LP at the same time. That was a really nice gat. Party money was more important back then. Doh
In 2010 I had a Gibson Les Paul Studio faded (worn cherry) and it had gargantuan tuning problems, especially on the G. Changing the nut with a very high quality bone nut didn't help at all (a very well known luthier did it for me, and also performed a full set-up). The G continued to go out of tune almost immediately, all the time. Changing the tuners to Grover Rotomatics helped a lot, but the problem never fully went away. I even brought the guitar to a second luthier but he, too, couldn't resolve the problem . I sold that guitar a few months later.
Is this perhaps just a problem with the newer Gibson product?? I'm not arguing, I'm just thinking 💭 & wondering 🤔 since this is repeated so many times on UA-cam. I have an 81 Les Paul Custom, a 94 Les Paul Standard (with the 1950's head stock angle), an 03 Les Paul Special and an 03 SG. They literally always stay in tune. I have never had an issue with them going out of tune.
the strats are the workhorse particulary with some sort of locking system. i stopped playing my strat 10 years ago and picked it up to get it ready to sell, would you believe strummed it and perfectly in tune!!
im just telling you what i saw, maybe australian climate, dunno.. i always changed strings before a gig when i played professionally though, a broken string on a locking system means you have to stop the band and replace it or keep a spare guitar on stage. tried playing les pauls, impossible to keep in tune and too heavy to stand up all night playing in a bar or at a wedding, for me at least.
Xlnt video. Can u talk a little about routed, weight relieved les Paul's vs an all solid body. I have seen so many negative comments about routed Gibson bodies. It seems to me a lighter guitar with arguably more warmth would give players more options. Thank you.
sixslnger the truth is they are not all routed the same so there are some variables there. some people love thin line teles. I hate em. its your preference. I've owned Gibson I wouldn't recommend them. used gear is where the deals and tone are.
I have a Corian on my 78 Gibson LP STD and performs fine to this day. Isn't expensive and works better than what came on my 2013 SigT. Graphtech isn't as good, just a marketing ploy for the most pt. I can also name a half dozen other changes that suck. The metal box in the cavity was very important. I get a static charge thru the signal as I go up and down the neck on the 2013 even in humid weather! I never ever got that on my 78. Can you please address that topic in a video Phillip? I still dig Gibson but it's a shame major mods are pretty much needed rt out of the box.
odd ball Yes, that was one of the only new upgrades Gibson did in 2015 I agree with. The Brass nut is a great idea and helps so much. I also had good luck with graphite.
Question Phillip, I understand what you are saying about the D & G tuner spacing causing some tuning issues and adding lube, etc. should help. My question is this, is pleking supposed to resolve or help this issue?? Or is it just another marketing gimmick? Thanks!
What do you think about putting some kind of quality "tree" on the D & G string to reduce the angle behind the nut? Seems like it should work. Thinking about doing that on my Gretsch 5120.
It could improve it, but this is faster and cheaper. www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/PWLubrikit?Google&PPC&DSA_-_Product&adpos=1o1&device=t&network=g&gclid=Cj0KEQjwstaqBRCT38DWpZjJotIBEiQAERS6_AzoF55JPPY9aEdnAX2PmRcmk5RnOeeU3yp1KE1Mb_IaAiy28P8HAQ I would use something like this a friction reducer or a new nut. You can buy a new nut for under 20 bucks also. These will work in almost all cases.
I should add that I've never changed nuts; 87 LP, 88 335 and 80 Artist. I should note that the Artist has a brass nut (original spec) and even it will "ping" and detune without lubrication.
I had always wanted a les paul after playing a tele for years and this was very frustrating to come to terms with. after i get done restoring my tele I'll be putting a new nut in the LP along with a good toggle switch and maybe some P-rails.
Thank you! This guy has it right. 99% of tuning instability is due to friction at the nut, and Gibsons are some of the worst offenders. The best fix IMO is a bone nut, with the D and G slots turned slightly to lead the string to the tuner. Polish and lube the string slots and problem solved - no need for locking tuners. I've replaced dozens of Gibson nuts for this exact issue.
Best explanation I've received by far. I love my strat, play it daily, but have never loved my les Paul because of the tuning issues I've had with it. Play it for two songs and its out of tune and I'm not the type to tune and stop things so it's sat in the corner, thinking about its bad behavior for for years. I'll work on the setup and see if it fixes it. Thanks for the video!
I have a Epi LP Trad Pro II. Paid $350.on sale last Xmas.Reg $500. Upgraded Pups to D'Marzio Air Classics. Also a Graph-Tech nut. Plays & sounds fantastic (even before upgrades). Stays in TUNE w/ no problems.Finish is flawless. Sold my Gibson to a friend as I had problems w/ it. He traded it in for a EPI ! Need I say more?
Flatten it 17 cents and turn the tunomatic piece around to face the bridge on the any string that gives you that problem. Done deal. There are no problems that can't be fixed.
Useful video that. I thought I was going a bit mad when I bought my Gibson SG XS 2014 - sounds and plays lovely but just wouldn't stay in tune the way you'd expect. Now I know why ! However I do think it's a disgrace that Gibson can't do something about this, when you are paying enough for their products. Thanks again for this enlightening video.
The best simple explanation of Gibson issues, thanks Phillip. I love the sound of Les Pauls and the look and feel of them but always found them too heavy. Light ones do seem to exist though....you've proved it. Useful information on tuning problems generally. I find nut sauce really helps. A guitar that won't stay in tune is useless.
Thanks for the vid. I actually started learning how to set up Gibsons in 98' when I got my first one. It took some time. Then once I learned it was just part of the necessary evil. Yea the intonation too. But yea they sound great. I still love mine.
Phil, I understand your points but, I have to agree with the customer who says, " I bought a gibson les Paul and it doesn't stay in tune " From a outsider point of view , that sentence is kind of ridiculous ? A guitar should stay in tune, esp an expensive iconic brand, it's kinda fundamental 🙄
Guitars are complex and often finicky instruments made of wood and wood expands and contracts and can crack or split or many other things if it's not cared for. _Any_ guitar (any stringed instrument, for that matter) will need frequent set ups and tweaks over the course of a playing year. Just the way it is, regardless of the brand.
ok but is still say the strings should not stick in the nut of a gibson guitar, its just riduculous, plain ridiculous. i aslo dont aggree that guitars are complex, quite the reverse in fact.
Peter Butler Yeah? Try building a good one sometime, then post a video of yourself playing it. There's a lot more there than meets the eye. And, as Phil mentioned, the design of the Gibson headstock can be described as flawed, with the G & D strings breaking sharply behind the nut, which can cause binding, which, in turn, can be easily remedied. The Gibson headstock has long since become iconic, hence their reluctance to change it.
Hello John...I understand the problem but its still not good that they havnt come up with something to correct it, e.g maybe a couple of little roller string trees in between the nut and tuners? I have no intention of trying to build a guitar becasue there a lot of poeple who can build guitars that do stay in tune, i just cant beleive a company that has been building them for 70 plus years cant fix such a fundamantal problem, Iconic headstock or not. INHO of course Greetings from Bavaria
Peter Butler It's not just Gibson guitars that have these issues, which was the point I didn't make very well. I just opened a new Telecaster yesterday and it's suffering from unstable tuning right out of the box. The reason? Poor finishing of the nut, which will be easily rectified with some patience and fine grit sandpaper. I also opened a new 2016 LP Standard yesterday (in a lovely Tea Burst finish) and it's staying in tune beautifully right out of the box. Point being, these are production guitars and it's not unreasonable to expect that some setup will be necessary, given storage conditions, shipping conditions and, yes, QC conditions. Doesn't make them bad guitars, just guitars in need of adjustment. A guitar can go from so-so to great in a matter of minutes with the proper adjustments. Replacing the nut on a new guitar is an extreme measure and hardly ever necessary, something I think Phil said in passing without emphasizing that it's almost never necessary. The axe would be going back before it ever got to that. $2,800 is a lot of scratch, no doubt, for a guitar, but many, many folks overreact to the nth degree over these issues when the solution is usually as simple as learning how to set up your own guitar and then doing so.
Hey Philip, just out of curiosity I was wondering what type of Les Paul that was? It looks very similar to my 2007 GOW #34 with the black overspray on the top side.
does this apply to my Rbb Flynn Epiphone Love Death baritone model?? Cuz I really dont want to replace the original nut on it. Sadly I do have to adjust the neck as the 3d string is out too...abot a 1/2 step from freeting an octave chord at the 5th fret and then trying to at the 14th or so..way out..been awhile shince Ive tried to adjust a string thats out..anyways,I hope the nut is better because its a sig model he actually uses,lol..I need to recheck the specs to see what type of nut it has,for sure..seems plastic to me..:-(.
I just got a new 339, and I must say that I was very pleasantly surprised at how good the fit and finish is. Mine certainly has no issues with the finish or the paint anywhere. I noticed that my nut was already cut with the angle in it, but then the string crimps before the nut. In any event, tuning stability has been no worse than my strat. My one issue - easily fixed - is that I wish it had come with locking tuners, but since it came with Grover Rotomatics, the locking version of the same tuners turned out to be a drop in replacement. Other than that, it's everything anybody could want - I'm very impressed at the build quality, quite frankly. One minor critique of the video if that's ok...I wish there was less playing and strumming in between the conversation because, as cool as it looks, the volumes don't match and every time the guitar is strummed as if to put in a punctuation mark, it drowns out what was being said.
Every Gibson nut has to be set up and for me using 11's have eliminated most of my tuning issues. Will say it's a bit harder to play but worth it for tuning stability. Seth Lover created humbuckers with 12's as standard strings for them.
My Epiphone Tony Iommi SG has a graphite nut with no tuning issues. My Gibson ES-335 has a corian nut and all kinds of tuning issues. That's really crazy considering the cost difference.
The answer that a lot of people seem to be looking for is later in this long post. I look at this way; violins and classical guitars have had similar designs with headstocks for a very long time. While the headstocks themselves may or may may not be tilted on some of those instruments, the strings are bent pretty hard over the nut and into the center of the headstocks where the strings connect. Depending on how the strings are wound on those instruments, the strings could pull left or right. Those instruments are still made that way after hundreds of years. ............... I am an exclusive Gibson player at this point in rock and roll life. I have owned an Explorer, 3 Les Pauls and a Doubleneck. I still have two Les Pauls, a 91 and a 16. The 16 records very well and my playing is far better on it than on my trusty old 91 that I have played since it was new. The 91 is also amazing, but the frets are a bit worn.The 16 is now my main guitar because of results on recording playbacks. It is a really impressive guitar. I don't have the issues mentioned here in this video and never have with any of my Gibsons or with other Gibsons that I have played in all of these years, but I have a process for putting new strings on that really helps keep the guitars in tune. I learned it from a guitar store manager when I returned an Ibanez about 25 years ago because the Ibanez would not stay in tune, but it did after I began doing what I will explain here. I have used this and another trick on all of my guitars over the years including ESP, Ibanez, Yamaha and Jackson even though this first part of the process is not necessary on the guitars with locking nuts. I liked all of those guitars a lot and I happily played more than a few of them for years, but they weren't Gibsons. There is a sound, tone and feel that really inspires me to play and only Gibson has it. I have been playing ONLY Gibsons for about 26 years with very few exceptions. Before I explain further, just to get on the same page, when you are going to put a new string on, turn the stringless machine post so that the post hole openings point towards the top of the headstock and the nut. Then follow these steps. It's 1,2,3, quick but I will put a lot of detail here and it will look like 100, 200, 300. Once you follow along, you will see that it doesn't add more than 10 minutes to a string change. The first trick is what the guy taught me and it includes only winding as much string as is necessary to keep the string on the guitar. Figure out what that is on your guitar. Don't wind all of the string excess. All of that extra string around the post interferes with string tension and will stretch and cause tuning issues. Enough string for one or two complete winds around the post is what I use for the 1st 4 strings, but you may want a little more if you don't follow all of these steps. I add at least another half wind on the 5th and 6th strings. This trick is part of staying in tune on any guitar that does not have a locking nut or locking tuner. Before you wind any string, stick it through the post and determine the amount that you will cut off. Don't cut until the last step. Once you have determined how much string you will cut off, take the excess part of the string, bend it sharp (kink it) at the post hole, wrap it around the post (you will be wrapping it towards the center of the headstock). You are wrapping the string half way around the post, bring it under the string on the other side of the post and bend it back over the top of the string. Got it? ...So here is what you have at this point; Lets say it's one of the bottom 3 strings (E, B or G) ..... The string comes up the fretboard, straight through the post hole, makes a sharp left turn (kink) around the post towards the center of the headstock, goes under the string and kinks back over the top of the string. You now have a hook to prevent the string from slipping. You just made yourself a DIY locking tuner! Tighten it up. Make sure the kinked hook stays around the string as you tighten. Tune the string. Do this with all strings (the top 3 strings will be done in a mirror fashion to the bottom three. Always bend towards the center of the headstock. Bring it under the string and kink it over the top.) and tune up. ........... You can now tune and play with less tuning issues, but I do something else to make a huge difference in tuning stability. You just followed this and changed your strings. You tuned up. Now lay the guitar flat on your lap or on a table. Grab the first string with both hands. Place one hand over the pick up area and one over the 5th or 7th fret area and bend your finger tips under the first string. SO you have your fingers over the strings and under the first string at those points. As you are grabbing the string this way, stretch the string. Bend your hands away from each other. Then bend them towards each other. Stretch the string out. It will now be drastically untuned. Retune that string. Do this again and several times until the string stays very close to tuned. Do this with each string. Stretch it good, BUT Be careful not to snap the thinner strings! Tune the guitar. You should be good to go. Using a lubricant in the nut slots is useful, but I never do and once my guitars are stretched out they only require normal, minimal tuning as any guitar does. I usually try not to apply too much downward pressure on the nut as I stretch the strings, so work that out. As I stretch the string certain ways, I lift it a little off the nut or keep that hand closer to the nut at times just to reduce downward pressure. If you still have major tuning problems then your guitar probably needs a set up. Don't keep your guitar near a sunny window or heat source. That will mess up the neck and tuning. I hope this helps!
Why don't they do all these stuff in the factory? I mean, Gibsons are expensive, the least they could do is to give you a perfect instrument for the price you pay.
+Soulreaper buy a PRS
+Wilson Phillips Played a 2015 les paul a couple days ago, sounded god damn fantastic but it did suck with this issue. The PRS on the other hand with the locking Phase 3 tuners Omfg that thing was just perfect.
'Cause they are lazy and sell overpriced crap. There is no part of a Gibson that is better than any other guitar brand. The sound is from the pickups and nothing else. And i don't even find the sound of most of them appealing. Sure they sound good in the hands of talented people w/ tons of electronic equipment. And Phil's sounds good too. But so do Fenders and even Epiphones. The Casino is a great machine. Personally if i had to go on sound alone, i would look at Gretsch. Those and Rickenbaker are the only two that really stand out to me. You're right. Gibson should set up their stuff and fix the problems. Why do you and i have to "Punk" them out to get them to work right. You and i could probably think of ways to fix the problems in about ten minutes. I don't like Gibson. And don't see the need for a set in neck. Unless it's to make the guitars impossible to fix. Anyway, good call.
I swear to God that my Aria pro STG is better than any of these.
I gotta admit that my GLS Studio sounds awesome. Plays well too. Damn thing just won't stay in tune, that's what makes it crap IMHO.
I have three Gibsons; a Les Paul Custom, an ES-335 and an ES Artist. They are all prone to G and B strings going flat for the reason described very well in this video IF I leave strings on too long and I don't lubricate the nut. It really is such a simple thing to fix and usually only needs to be done once per string change, right at the start. I string-up but leave the top E, B and G loose then lift the strings out of the nut grooves and rest them on the top of the nut. I get a pencil and a knife and scrape the lead over the grooves of the nut and fill them up with powdered graphite. Drop the strings back in the grooves, blow away the loose graphite, tune up and forget about going out of tune. This has always worked for me.
Sorry but don't believe a 2k guitar should come with dinks or need to be levelled etc. Especially not when Gibson claim your guitar is 'professionally set up' in the factory. Its all down to price. If you want to be a top-dollar luxury brand you need to provide luxury or you devalue the brand. Its that simple really. Gibson have been devaluing their brand for 15 years and sales have shown that.
+cgavin1 I couldn't agree more. I had a friend who spent $3000 on a new Les Paul Standard a few months ago, and he brought it to me because he thought it should play better. He was right! The intonation was about as far out as it could get. The neck had a bow like a 30 year old 12 string, and to top it all off, it had terrible hum even with the volumes turned all the way down! I did the set up things for him, but he took it to a Gibson authorized repair center for the hum. They told him it was "normal with the hot pickups". He wisely sent it back and they sent him a different one that was just as poorly set up, but thankfully it didn't have the hum.
Fast forward to Christmas morning. I had a Gretsch Double Jet in my Amazon cart that my wife found and bought for me. It was for a Variax transplant, so I wanted something cheap. This little $500 Chinese guitar is flawless! Gorgeous glossy black finish, perfect setup and the sound is just fantastic! So good that I'm squeamish about the potential transplant damage now! It wildly exceeded my expectations.
For that same $3K my friend spent on a Gibson Les Paul, I bought a U.S. made Teye Coyote that kicked his Les Paul's asses in every single way. And for $2500 less, my little Chinese Gretsch is a better guitar. I think there's something seriously wrong with that myself. And I thought I always wanted a Les Paul in my collection. I'm over it.
I was really going to buy a gibson and the more i think about it the more i realize that I could put my money into another company and will get a guitar that wont NEED anything...
Sad right? Gibson and PRS low end are the new 'China'. Wow.
mike Braxus PRS too??
That was my experience anyway. I bought a beautiful PRS SE Tremonti in December 2015 from GC. I'm glad I sent in the warranty card. I'd seen a video of Paul Smith saying to give his guitars a little time to settle. Well I did what he asked me to do. But after about 4 months and two professional setups I had to admit to myself that the guitar had tuning stability problems that needed repair. PRS customer service gave me an RA number and I had to let my new PRS go for 6 weeks, on two separate occasions. They simply did not get the guitar fixed. So, due to my persistence they set up a special return through Guitar Center where I was given a full return, provided that I used the money to buy from GC.
During that time I learned from the tech at GC that mine wasn't the only SE that had to be returned. So it's academic, to me anyway. Low end PRS has a tuning stability problem, and at least at that level they are no better than Gibson.
Thanks
you can go over the grooves in the nut with a pencil a few times. i did this with my 339, fixed the problem right away.
You can go over the grooves in my nut for that problem out of the box for that money
I've had 3 Les Paul models all made in the 1970's, they ALL had great tone but if you played them hard non would stay in tune, I found this surprising as coming from playing US Fender Strats for years the LP felt like a really solid better made instrument. If you used really heavy gauge strings and played Jazz it was fine but if you used 9 or 10 gauge strings and played rock you would have to tune-up after EVERY song, even my Strat's with their crappy 6 screw tremeloes stayed in tune better.Eventually I took mine to a local tech, he re-cut the slots in the nut and used a lead pencil to lube the slots, after that I had almost no more tuning problems. He said that almost ALL Gibson's factory nuts slots were way too shallow so the difference between an open and fingered string was so big it made tuning almost impossible. It came down to a poorly finished $10 part making a $1000 masterpiece sound like junk.I recently got a great deal on a PRS SE 22, same problem, a shoddy nut made it almost unusable, had the nut slots re-cut and WOW, this baby plays like butter, sounds great and as long as I don't get too crazy with the factory trem it will say in tune for the whole gig.
SuperStig23 well said
I have issue with my `93 studio, all the string goes sharp a bit when I playing power chords, but especially sharp is 6th string.It is really as you described, if I play with just a little bit attack 6th sting goes very sharp and after returns back in normal sounding. Does chanching nut really helps with it? Can it be a tune o matic seddles issue aswell?
"It doesn't make it better it just fixes that issue." Ummm, yes that makes it better. A guitar that stays in tune is better than one that doesn't.
I was thinking the exact same thing.
That's why I never put a G string on my Les Paul !
is this a joke?
@@jonathanschaffer5758 r/whooooosh!
Jonathan Schaffer You gotta get out of the house more often if you can’t be sure if he’s joking or not
@@jonathanschaffer5758 No it's true. I play with only 5 strings on it 😉
same, I use thongs
i appreciate how honest you are about tuning stability. there are way too many people who like to claim that other people struggle with tuning stability because of a "lack of knowledge" and that they alone have solved those issues with certain strings and expertise.
i'll add that especially floyd rose users like to claim that they "set it up right" and that once they tune it "it never goes out of tune."
yeah pretty much all gibby had that issue. first thing i do when i got a gibby are change the nut to tusq xl, fix the shap edge of the fret (gibby really got a crappy shap fret), change pot and cap and re setup the guitar. i dont really use locking tuner, i think the kluson did a fairly good job as long as you know how to restring with vintage kluson tuner. (actually you better off refret the whole fingerboard, gibby E string kept getting caught between the edge of the fret where it meets the binding, tho they fix this already on 2014 model)
If you use a pencil and graphite each slot on the nut, you will find this improves tuning issues greatly.
Also make sure your intonation is set correctly at the bridge.
Yes did this couple of days ago and i'm pretty happy
I do that every time I change strings👍
One million dollars was a nice touch
Cannot speak for others but every guitar I buy (new or used) gets a setup immediately. I prefer to use luthiers over music stores but YMMV depending where you live. Why? well then when you play it it's in the best state it can be AND a good luthier can point out any flaws and usually fix them at the same time/tell you to go back and get the store to fix it. One pointed out an unnoticed bridge crack for example on a Guild I'd bought and the shop admitted the fault/repaired it. if you've spent 1-4k on an instrument then it's silly IMHO a) to expect the factory setup to be your choice/optimum - how did they know you were going to buy it??? b) to worry about the $60-100 extra it costs for the checkup/setup so it's exactly the way you want it. Now these are my thoughts and not gospel but hope they help the undecided. One weird thing - every epiphone I've bought (SG's, Firebird, 1275, Joe Pass epi Jazzer etc) new or used keeps tune BETTER than the Gibson model of it I have???
Imagine buying a $3,000 laptop, then being told that same week you have to buy a software update for $100 for the laptop to work.
You must be talking about Apple?
@@OnlineMusicSwap Meh… I’ve switch to Apple in 2012… ditched my Androids for iPhones and my PC’s for all Macs… and honestly, have not had a single issue in what, 10 solid years now with heavy use. Not one single freeze up, not one single file corrupted or lost. I’m still using the 2012 MacBook daily for everything from Logic Pro to video editing… I know this may not be the case for everyone, but it seems to be the same for everyone I know who runs all Apple.
Now, as for the Gibson issues… Gibson should have started fixing those issues when they decided to sell sub-par guitars for $2,000-$8,000
Fenders, PRS, hell, even my BC Rich run solid for a fraction of the cost. Love my SG, but I would be miffed if I spent thousands on it.
The zero fret adjustment nuts are pretty decent. My latest Gibson came with one fitted and its great. It allows more string adjustments and I believe it helps with any problems you might have with the D and G strings. That Guitar also turned up perfectly setup. I've really not had to worry about anything other than getting rid of the silly G-force tuning system.
I have a Hagstrom Swede that has the exact issues you describe. Sounds like the same nut/head design flaw.
Love my Hagstrom, after a roller bridge and a Zero glide nut were installed.Much much better. This was less expensive than a new guitar. A string buddy seems like a good idea also.
So true. I've bought a 2017 HP Gibson studio and the titanium nut has really helped a lot. One of the best Les Pauls I have ever played. The tuners I love and the Burst buckers are fabulous!
Hi Phil, thank you for all the knowledge. Not a tuning issue but a Gibson question for you: I've noticed a lot of Gibsons I've owned and played have a fret board that seems slightly smaller than the neck causing a little edge. Never really bothered me to play on, but I'm wondering if that's an issue, or a normal thing? Never had that issue with a fender or any other brand I've owned.
I play an SG, stays in tune pretty well but I'll check carefully now. Great video!
Mt Strat rarely if ever goes out of tune. Leo got it right! I do love my Les Paul, but it's always out of tune. Thanks for the advice Phillip. I might put it in for a setup.
Leo was a pragmatist. He threw away the rule book. Great thinker, and it shows on his guitars.
What most people don't know is that Les Paul actually had a big blowup with Gibson right around 1960 and was in talks with Fender to bring his name and endorsement there. Gibson got wind of it and did whatever it took to keep him in the fold. That's one of the reasons the double-cutaway LP was called the SG after 1961. He designed it for Mary Ford, but he hated that guitar. (Personally, I love it. I have a '68. I wish I had a '61 or better.)
I was just in GC yesterday looking at a $2800 Les Paul. I was commenting to my wife that I couldn't believe a guitar at that price would have dings and obvious paint runs and defects. They may sound great, but at that price I want it to be perfect.
Man!!! Thank you so much! I just bought an SG and just like the story goes I paid a bunch and it jjust wouldnt stay in tuned! I was so discouraged! But thanks to you now I know! Thanks!!!
When someone taught me a different way of putting new strings on i never had tuning problems ever again. Before you wind the string loop the string under and then over then when you wind the string it locks itself down. There should be some videos out there showing it. I use 10 1/2 size strings. just that 1/2 makes for a bit of a thicker tone when doing leads on the high E. I play classic rock and blues so i do alot of bends. Well that's just what worked for me there can be so many reasons why the guitar won't stay in tune.
I buy a lot Gibson Les Pauls, Custom Shop VOS to be exact and i must say, I don't think i have ever come across a tuning problem, Maybe a fret to high every now and then.
I'll give you a tip for fixing the nut issue without replacing it!!! You accurately described the sharp and the releasing of tension through subsequent playing after tuning. What you do (you'll need nut files) is round over the curvature from the bridge side to the tuning head side (so it has a radius to change the angle) and polish out on the final bend so the string has a path to bend without encountering the factory sharp bends! Step 2 is this won't work
There are Gibsons that don't have that problem. The Firebird, and to some extent, the Flying V and Marauder have have a straighter string path.
I use the tip of a #2 pencil for lube when putting on new strings applied on the nut. Cheap and sometimes free lube laying around.
Les Paul need big gauge strings to stay in tune, never forget that Les Paul was a Jazz player and they use heavy gauges strings. Mine (well, actually a high end japanese made Tokai) is loaded with 10-52 and never goe out of tune stock!
That's just not true. Les Paul's original design used very large necks compared to modern LP's. Since the original LP's were in production for only 4 years, didn't sell well and disappeared, only to return in 1968 with slimmer necks and lighter bodies, there's no hard and fast rule for string gauge. Some guys use 9's, some use 12's and they come with 10's. Purely up to a given player's taste.
Pretty much any guitar can be set up to work with any gauge of strings, it's mostly a matter of neck relief and ensuring the nut is cut to the correct size. And 10's are not considered to be "big gauge strings." What they need to stay in tune is proper set up.
John B You might be right, but in my experience, stock les paul tend to stay in tune when loaded with heavy gauges strings. And Les Paul was using heavy gauges, so say that the guitar is designed for heavyer gauge is not, in my opinion, out of topic. I am totaly aware of the case gibbons who use ultra lite gauge, but his guitar are barelly a les paul, they are reworked in deep so that they will be used with light gauges...just my point of view, but it works without any mods or magic nut sauce and stuff.
As a kid...I hated play my dad's guitar because the strings were heavy...I actually used . 08 on a gibson sonix. Everytime I play cat scratch fever it go out of tune.lmao....i used ,10 on 24.7 and ,09 on 25.5
My dad also got me a real Gibson gold with the p-90.
i hated that guitar..becuase it nevered stayed in tune...even after
he installed groovers bridge and tunners,..That was back in the mid 70's. He still paid $800 for that used intunable guitar...back when,.lol
Recently got a couple of LP kits..The string that came with them were
slinkies...Holy fucked wow. They're light..kind of like the way i had it
when I was a kid (becuase my hand didnt have enough strength yet)
Installed .10...The guitar came to life..Fuller tones..ect Plus no tnning
issues. Epip or asian made guitar has less headstock tilt. Less binding..it is what it is. Im not a jazzy type of player. it's not music theory or special musical term for me to bend the living shit out of notes.lmao i play alot of
blues...All 12 notes works just that same.
I'll give you a tip for fixing the nut issue without replacing the nut! You accurately described the sharp angles of the nut and the releasing of tension through subsequent playing after tuning. What you do (you'll need nut files) is round over the curvature from the bridge side to the tuning head side (so it has a radius to change the angle) and polish out on the final bend so the string has a path to bend without encountering the factory sharp bends! This is important to when your tuning the strings that you always tune upwards a give them a bends to ensure that the string tensions even out over the nut. Unless you have a Floyd Rose or are constantly doing Major third bends it will be far better! The whole design of the 18 degree headstock angle is a major element of the sustain of the design!
Which LP weighs 6 1/2 -7 lbs with HB's and binding? It does sound real good. My LP Jr Special (P90's) weighs a ton.
I have a lot of trouble with my 2012 Gibson Firebird staying in tune but I don't notice a radical angle on the strings between the tuners and the nut. Mostly I have trouble with the high E, B & G strings.
which nut do you recommend - bone? other? some people say buy lock? tuners. i have 5 yr old traditional les paul that has great sound but g string goes out of tune easily. love yr channel - what an education!
If I were to purchase a Gibson or Epiphone accoustic, would I be facing the same issue(s)? Love their accoustic lineups.
+stan broniszewski All acoustics will have some of this issue, but the bigger strings and a hard nut material make it less of an issue. Plus without bending strings the issue is not a big deal.
My fix for this problem with any guitar that I buy and do the setup on, which I do to any new/used guitar that I buy, is to take a set of nut files, and I will use a file that is just a hair bigger than the original string slot and file it out to match the original string slot, just a hair wider so that the string sits inside the slot better, then I will take that same file and on the side of the string nut that faces the tuning keys, I will carefully file the string slot at an angle facing the particular tuning key that the string will be bound to...it takes care of the string pinch, plus you don't have to lube the string slots. It has always worked perfect for me...yeah, it's a little extra work but it's worth it. At one time I used to literally MAKE my own string nuts for each guitar to alleviate the problem, but I found it easier to just do a little filing and problem solved. I also file the string saddles so that the slot has a more "rounded" shape for the string to rest in instead of the typical "V" shape that they use, that also helps tremendously, and also helps with the intonation settings. Just a few tricks that I have learned along the way.
Great tips!
Thanks for posting this video. I've been playing for 27 years, finally bought a new Les Paul Classic, and was very disappointed. The tuning has been a major issue (all my Fenders stay in tune). I've noticed the G and B strings don't stay in tune. Thanks for explaining.
Would graphite and/or roller nuts help with intonation?
I added a fine tuning tail piece and an above the nut string clamp, I did this on my LP, SG and on my Explorer no string clamp necessary because Gibson used Grover Tuners and the string bind isn't an issue. When I was playing in a band year round I would take my guitars in once a year to my guitar guy and have him check my intonation, frets, truss rod adjustment, test my tone and volume pots, and what ever else needed to be done. Another worthwhile investment is strap locks on all your guitars and straps. Especially if your gonna spend $2000 or whatever. I don't play much these days but when I pull any of those guitars out of the case they are still perfectly in tune.
i have a fender american deluxe strat with the schaller locking tuners never goes out of tune after stretching the strings even with using the tremlo in a floating position. it stays in tune better than my floyd rose equipped metal machine.
Day two since I have my new 2015 Gibson Les Paul Standard. It's running out of tune all the time after I hit some chords. I already spent about 5 hours playing it, the new strings should be already stretched. I starting to nervous.
At that point strings should be stretched. Did you try Lubing the nut slots? If not try D addario lubrekit. Big bends nut sauce, I little tiny bit of vasoline, or a pencil. All of these thing can stop it from falling out of tune. But if you use one of them and it still falls out of tune, but not as bad then you know it's the nut or the keys. Don't worry there is no Gibson I have worked on that couldn't be great. They make great guitars. Worst case take it to a good tech that you trust or has good reputation.
Interesting. I currently own four Gibson's; three LP's and an SG. All of them stay in tune. I previously owned a Nighthawk and two additional Les Paul's. I don't recall having issues with them staying in tune either. Weird.
Do you use 8's or 9's?
10-46 Ernie Ball regular slinky.
+RT VIT Same here. I have never had any tuning issues, for the exception of my 1991 SG Special. Before I had a professional setup, the G would always go out of whack. Never any problems with my 2009 LP Traditional, 2012 LP Jr. Special Humbucker, or my 2014 LP Traditional Pro II. My Trad Pro II came with .09-.46, which is what she always gets now (Hybrid Slinky's), and all of my other Gibsons get .10-.46 (Slinky's on my other LP's and GHS Boomers on my SG).
+RT VIT I don't think anyone can have too many Lesters.
Hey Phillip, I have a question for you. I've always wanted a Les Paul Silverburst preferably custom, but I found a 2008 standard for $1700. My question to you is, is that price fair considering Gibson's quality issues as of the last decade? It has an ebony fretboard and is in pretty decent condition. It has Gibson style tuners but I'm definitely going to switch those to Grovers. I would appreciate any kind of feedback!
Adam Nihei I always think a Les Paul and Strat or good purchases. Someone is always looking to buy a Gibson or Fender and it will not change for a while. If anything what I have seen is Les Paul prices going up because no one wants the new ones. Ebony is also a good thing because Gibson will not do a lot of Ebony anymore. $1700 feels high and $1500 would be a sweeter price because worst case they are worth $1200 and High they can go for $1900 so it is nice to be somewhere between. Gibson's quality has always sucked and they never effects price its more of a wow I wish they would care a little more.
Phillip McKnight I have a 2002 SG Special and a 2015 SG Standard, in my opinion the quality has improved hugely. I even like the GForce as it's really useful. I hate changing strings and I'm very lazy about tuning and love technology.
Thank you for the info. Is it a faux pas to want to install a string tree to redirect the D,G strings and straighten them?
My 1978 25/50 Anniversary LP Custom (see pic on the left) used to have tuning issues back in the day, but since a switched to elixir strings years ago, and started properly stretching them out when putting on a fresh set, it stays in tune as well as any other guitar i've owned.
that's my experience.
oh, my LP has a beautiful brass nut, so that doesn't hurt either.
thanks for your vids!
I agree Phillip. Ive owned many gibsons and the tuning issue was always there. In the old days every one just took a pencil and rub the string slots to lubricate and it fixes the issue no probleemo.....
Yeah i notice on Epi Dot that the G string tends to go out of tune after bending.Better check the nut first but the other strings are fine.
Since part of the tuning stability with Gibson’s involves
the way the strings get bound up at the nut, what are your thoughts about
routing the nut out at each string so that as soon as the string enters the nut
slot there is no nut material on either side of the string for the string to
get bound up on? Think of a series of hollowed out V’s on the nut at each nut
slot.
what about the modern Zero Fret titanium nut?? I have that in my guitar
hey Phillip I've recently acquired a 2013 Gibson les paul standard plus top and it does suffer from the D/Games string tuning issue. has a a stock corian nut. should it be filed by a Luther to better the break angle? or would you recommend using a different nut. something akin to the zero glide nut which can be retrofitted. thanks for reading. hope to hear from you soon.
Paul, UK
Appreciate the post. I have a PRS, but was having the same problem. Fixed now!
When my studio is in tune it sounds amazing, after 1 song it sounds outta tune ... would locking tuners help? This Gibson I have is awesome sounding and it’s depressed me about the tuning issues.
When tuning a guitar some strings do not show a steady reading on the tuner .Some are spot on, why?
Regarding fender: my squier strat stays in tune almost perfectly. However, if I put on the tremolo bar it goes out of tune. Not even if I use it, just if I put it on, all the strings go sharp. Then when I use it, it knocks my guitar out of tune. Basically I just don't use it. How is this a functional device at all?
yeah right, D/G not a design flaw lol. I have a different issue: bought used studio pro. All strings go flat by the same amount, and occasionally sharp by the same amount on my tuner. Not a half step, but maybe half that mount on the dial. I know heating and cooling do this, but this seems excessive just sitting around my apt. Is this a truss rod issue, like its giving or moving or what? My tele does not do this nonesense. thanks
I had this problem with my ES345TD but not with any other of my Gibson/Epiphone models. I cured the problem with as you say, a proper set-up but my tech found that flat wound strings with a wound G string insured constant stability in tuning. I know that the "rockers" balk at flat wound strings but they have become standard on all my "ES" type guitars for the past 20+ years. Just a tip that I hope that it will help....
Thank you for imparting your knowledge for free ! What would you use to lube the nut ?
I use Lubrekit by D Addario. I like the the applicator they use. It works great.
"Lube the nut"... Watch your words bro
I have more than one guitar so I will use it to lube my nutz !
I think there is actually a lubricant for guitar nuts called "nut lube" :)
+Will Ozellman it's actually "nut sauce" XD
I have a 2014 les paul studio with tuning issues. Think I'll replace thr nut. Also the frets are so tall if you squeeze a chord too much it sounds out of tune. Should i get the frets filed?
Four years ago I changed a 1983 Les Paul Standard to a Graphtech nut and Graphtech saddles (installed into the original TOM bridge). This combination greatly reduced the tuning issues and then near-zero tuning problems with a whisp of "Door-Ease" (oily wax) in the nut slots. The biggest improvement was far less string breakage (at the bridge). But.... that was my fault. In close inspection, the original metal saddles were badly string cut (and a few were very sharp) after 28 years. So... now I realize saddles don't last forever.
I was worried there might have been a loss of treble or sustain with the "plastic/epoxy/magic/what-ever" saddles. The sustain seemed fine.... IF there was a bit of treble loss.... it was easily restored with the amplifier. I'm glad you have a nice light LP. This 1983 has to be one of the heaviest around... it's brutal snd seems to get heavier as we get older. Still, it's an awesome instrument.
do a video on how to fix this problem please! PLEASE! I love my 2008 Gibson Les Paul Traditional but I have this very tuning issue!
Bill here. Another issue you didn't mention is how much of an downward angle the strings have as they come over the nut to the tuning posts on a Gibson. That sharp angle causes a lot of friction between the nut slot and strings. I've found as one is winding the strings around the tuner posts, you can relieve much of that friction and string binding by winding the strings from the bottom of the posts up to the top of the post., rather than winding from the top to the bottom as it is generally done. You can decrease that sharp angle a good amount
by winding in this way. It help GOBS to stay in tune. Try it, you'll see!
Wow good video , my Gibson midtown custom g string always falls out of tune and it takes a good few winds to get it "locked" in a sense. This can be really annoying during a studio rehearsal, also the nut that Gibson put on it was absolutely atrocious I had to get it swapped out with a real one immediately. But who am I kidding ? I love it to bits and I love the comments I hear about how it looks . Great guitar for the money , you can't get a custom for that money (£800)
I'm looking to get back into playing. Is there a brand out there that has the distortion sound of a Gibson, flat sort of wide neck, maybe a Floyd locking system that will stay in tune? Looking for AC/DC type sound.
Thanks, I feel better now. Q: I bought a new 2015 ES335 Studio and I really love it but it does have issues. Mainly 14th fret and higher the sustain drops off dramatically especially on the G string and I've had to raise the action higher than I'd like to make it better but it's still not awesome. Could it be a neck relief (or lack of it) issue even though the point of issue is located at the body more than the neck? Could it be fret issues? I suppose I should take it to a luthier but how do I find a good one?
The nut can cause problems only when tuning the guitar in. However, if the guitar is not staying in tune after it is tuned in, it is usually the problem of tuning machines. My LP Custom was not able to stay in tune at all. After 2 years I replaced original Grover machines with another ( noname cheap brand ) and the tuning issues are over. I wonder if Gibson even checks the guitars before dispatching. Anyway, it was my last Gibson.
Thanks to all who have replied back to me about Gibson Guitars and problems, etc.
I was wondering about a comment made about the tuneamatic bridge.
Should I consider a Fabre bridge setup with, titanium saddles for the wound strings?
I think I will start with a lube either the d'addario or big bends nut sauce.
There is nothing like the sound and the feel of a Gibson neck, and guitar, but at this point it is very irritating. I picked up a stratocaster, had not been played in months, absolutely perfect tuning, right out of the case. aahhhhhhh anxiety?
Just traded my 2014 LP trad in for a 2016 LP standard. The tuning stability on the 16 is amazing. The graphtech nut is so much better on the standard model. I don't know if the 2016 traditional has a better nut now though? Anyhow, I'm really impressed with the tuning on my new Gibson and it has locking tuners which I'm sure help stability.
I have had five Gibsons. A LP Classic, LP Traditional, A LP Custom, and a SG Standard, plus a very old J-45 acoustic I bought as my first guitar when i was 16. The only one that had issues was the SG. The neck was glued in with a little too much angle, which meant the stop bar had to be high so the angle over the saddles was not too much. Was not an issue for me because I wrap my strings around the stop bar. Was a fantastic guitar apart from that. Really nice to play and had a real attitude. it was 2009 or so GC run in vintage cherry with zebra pups.
The trad was 2012 and was really nice to play too. Lacked the attitude of the SG. More of a sweet tone than bark and bite of the SG. The Classic had a great tone and played very nicely, but I messed it up putting EMGs in it when I was in a Zakk phase. I gave it to my nephew to get him to stay in school. I think it was about a 2006 one. I wore the frets out on that gat twice. The LP Custom was in the 90s. It was a Custom Shop thing. It had the Custom Shop logo inlaid in the headstock. I remember it being very nice but that's all. I remember not liking that it was heavily chambered in the end. Elegant series.
I get a hankering for a Strat every now and then, but I never keep them for long. I just don't get on with them like I do Gibsons. I also sometimes buy an Ibanez, Charvel or Jackson if i am getting all shreddy. I sell them pretty quickly too. I am a one guitar guy. I get used to the one I like most and stick with it. Different strokes etc.
I sold all my music gear to move from NZ to USA to get married (guitars are much cheaper in USA, so did not seem such a bad thing at the time). That did not work out, so have a PRS SE 245 for now. it has a really great tone with the SD pups it now has, but I do not like the neck. It's a pig to play no matter what I do to the setup. I also really dislike the stopbar bridge and the way it does not intonate very well. Affects playing high up the neck the most when doing semitone bends. I am getting used to it and compensating like I guess tele players learn to, but will get another Gibson sooner or later when money situation is healthy again.
p.s. I remember buying a Les Paul cloned body and neck that was unfinished. I had all the binding and routing done etc. It was in 1988 or so in Auckland. I got it quite cheaply. Apparantly made by somebody in Califonia. I needed some cash so took it too the music shop. They took one look at it, got all excited and whipped out a bunch of cash. I wonder what it was and where it ended up. It was a work of art. I sold a pre law suit ibanez LP at the same time. That was a really nice gat. Party money was more important back then. Doh
In 2010 I had a Gibson Les Paul Studio faded (worn cherry) and it had gargantuan tuning problems, especially on the G. Changing the nut with a very high quality bone nut didn't help at all (a very well known luthier did it for me, and also performed a full set-up). The G continued to go out of tune almost immediately, all the time. Changing the tuners to Grover Rotomatics helped a lot, but the problem never fully went away. I even brought the guitar to a second luthier but he, too, couldn't resolve the problem . I sold that guitar a few months later.
Lubricate with what? Does Big Bends Nut Sauce work?
+Mark Powell You are correct. I was concerned that other groups used the fraise. So I just used Guitar. Good Catch thanks for posting.
+Phillip McKnight Wrong post. Big Bends works great, I use Lubrekit by D Addario because I like the applicator and swabs that come with it.
+Mark Powell Graphite powder or shaved pencil lead
+Phillip McKnight could u make a video showing us how to fix the problem in depth?
Is this perhaps just a problem with the newer Gibson product?? I'm not arguing, I'm just thinking 💭 & wondering 🤔 since this is repeated so many times on UA-cam. I have an 81 Les Paul Custom, a 94 Les Paul Standard (with the 1950's head stock angle), an 03 Les Paul Special and an 03 SG. They literally always stay in tune. I have never had an issue with them going out of tune.
+Phillip McKnight, you mentioned that SGs go sharp. I'm having that problem; what should I do?
the strats are the workhorse particulary with some sort of locking system. i stopped playing my strat 10 years ago and picked it up to get it ready to sell, would you believe strummed it and perfectly in tune!!
im just telling you what i saw, maybe australian climate, dunno.. i always changed strings before a gig when i played professionally though, a broken string on a locking system means you have to stop the band and replace it or keep a spare guitar on stage. tried playing les pauls, impossible to keep in tune and too heavy to stand up all night playing in a bar or at a wedding, for me at least.
Xlnt video. Can u talk a little about routed, weight relieved les Paul's vs an all solid body. I have seen so many negative comments about routed Gibson bodies. It seems to me a lighter guitar with arguably more warmth would give players more options. Thank you.
sixslnger the truth is they are not all routed the same so there are some variables there. some people love thin line teles. I hate em. its your preference. I've owned Gibson I wouldn't recommend them. used gear is where the deals and tone are.
I have a Corian on my 78 Gibson LP STD and performs fine to this day. Isn't expensive and works better than what came on my 2013 SigT. Graphtech isn't as good, just a marketing ploy for the most pt. I can also name a half dozen other changes that suck. The metal box in the cavity was very important. I get a static charge thru the signal as I go up and down the neck on the 2013 even in humid weather! I never ever got that on my 78. Can you please address that topic in a video Phillip? I still dig Gibson but it's a shame major mods are pretty much needed rt out of the box.
my gibson midtown custom was awful at staying in tune, till i had a brass nut put on it, now its a badass mother
odd ball Yes, that was one of the only new upgrades Gibson did in 2015 I agree with. The Brass nut is a great idea and helps so much. I also had good luck with graphite.
The Les Paul has been around how for how many years and they haven't fixed it yet?
Question Phillip, I understand what you are saying about the D & G tuner spacing causing some tuning issues and adding lube, etc. should help. My question is this, is pleking supposed to resolve or help this issue?? Or is it just another marketing gimmick? Thanks!
that is mostly for frets and action, but I would think it would help some
What do you think about putting some kind of quality "tree" on the D & G string to reduce the angle behind the nut? Seems like it should work. Thinking about doing that on my Gretsch 5120.
It could improve it, but this is faster and cheaper. www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/PWLubrikit?Google&PPC&DSA_-_Product&adpos=1o1&device=t&network=g&gclid=Cj0KEQjwstaqBRCT38DWpZjJotIBEiQAERS6_AzoF55JPPY9aEdnAX2PmRcmk5RnOeeU3yp1KE1Mb_IaAiy28P8HAQ I would use something like this a friction reducer or a new nut. You can buy a new nut for under 20 bucks also. These will work in almost all cases.
True re cheaper and probably what I will do but when I pinch the D and G strings together behind the nut it does look good.
Phillip McKnight I just color the nut slots with a pencil, which did the job for me
Bram Claes yep, that works great.
I should add that I've never changed nuts; 87 LP, 88 335 and 80 Artist. I should note that the Artist has a brass nut (original spec) and even it will "ping" and detune without lubrication.
I had always wanted a les paul after playing a tele for years and this was very frustrating to come to terms with. after i get done restoring my tele I'll be putting a new nut in the LP along with a good toggle switch and maybe some P-rails.
So good to know! Then I found a video on the String Butler. Apparently that solves the issue. But, it detracts a little from the appearance.
do you get a check from Gibson when you're done finishing their job?
Thank you! This guy has it right. 99% of tuning instability is due to friction at the nut, and Gibsons are some of the worst offenders. The best fix IMO is a bone nut, with the D and G slots turned slightly to lead the string to the tuner. Polish and lube the string slots and problem solved - no need for locking tuners. I've replaced dozens of Gibson nuts for this exact issue.
Or just use a string butler. I put Grovers on my 79 Standard and haven't had any tuning problems. I do need a fret job though lol.
Best explanation I've received by far. I love my strat, play it daily, but have never loved my les Paul because of the tuning issues I've had with it. Play it for two songs and its out of tune and I'm not the type to tune and stop things so it's sat in the corner, thinking about its bad behavior for for years. I'll work on the setup and see if it fixes it. Thanks for the video!
Consider a quality roller bridge as well, the bridge tends to be another place where the strings bind.
I have a Epi LP Trad Pro II. Paid $350.on sale last Xmas.Reg $500. Upgraded Pups to D'Marzio Air Classics. Also a Graph-Tech nut.
Plays & sounds fantastic (even before upgrades). Stays in TUNE w/ no problems.Finish is flawless. Sold my Gibson to a friend as I had problems w/ it. He traded it in for a EPI ! Need I say more?
hey man, any idea why I can't get intonation on my g string? it is sharp at the 12th fret, and there's no room left to go back on the bridge. thanks.
Flatten it 17 cents and turn the tunomatic piece around to face the bridge on the any string that gives you that problem. Done deal. There are no problems that can't be fixed.
+alex tworkowski didn't think of turning the piece around. thanks.
Lee Dress If you need more, you can modify the nut or get a compensated nut. They are used all the time on acoustics. You'll be fine.
Just a question....what’s your opinion on Chibsons.
but....how do we fix this issue ourselves Philip..?
"That's near enough for jazz..." Alvin Lee..August 17 1969.. ;)
Useful video that. I thought I was going a bit mad when I bought my Gibson SG XS 2014 - sounds and plays lovely but just wouldn't stay in tune the way you'd expect. Now I know why ! However I do think it's a disgrace that Gibson can't do something about this, when you are paying enough for their products. Thanks again for this enlightening video.
The best simple explanation of Gibson issues, thanks Phillip. I love the sound of Les Pauls and the look and feel of them but always found them too heavy. Light ones do seem to exist though....you've proved it. Useful information on tuning problems generally. I find nut sauce really helps. A guitar that won't stay in tune is useless.
I've also adjusted the stop tailpiece so there is coverage on the strings in the back and my guitar is staying in tune a lot better
Thanks for the vid. I actually started learning how to set up Gibsons in 98' when I got my first one. It took some time. Then once I learned it was just part of the necessary evil. Yea the intonation too.
But yea they sound great. I still love mine.
Phil, I understand your points but, I have to agree with the customer who says, " I bought a gibson les Paul and it doesn't stay in tune "
From a outsider point of view , that sentence is kind of ridiculous ?
A guitar should stay in tune, esp an expensive iconic brand, it's kinda fundamental 🙄
Guitars are complex and often finicky instruments made of wood and wood expands and contracts and can crack or split or many other things if it's not cared for. _Any_ guitar (any stringed instrument, for that matter) will need frequent set ups and tweaks over the course of a playing year. Just the way it is, regardless of the brand.
ok but is still say the strings should not stick in the nut of a gibson guitar, its just riduculous, plain ridiculous. i aslo dont aggree that guitars are complex, quite the reverse in fact.
Peter Butler Yeah? Try building a good one sometime, then post a video of yourself playing it. There's a lot more there than meets the eye.
And, as Phil mentioned, the design of the Gibson headstock can be described as flawed, with the G & D strings breaking sharply behind the nut, which can cause binding, which, in turn, can be easily remedied. The Gibson headstock has long since become iconic, hence their reluctance to change it.
Hello John...I understand the problem but its still not good that they havnt come up with something to correct it, e.g maybe a couple of little roller string trees in between the nut and tuners?
I have no intention of trying to build a guitar becasue there a lot of poeple who can build guitars that do stay in tune, i just cant beleive a company that has been building them for 70 plus years cant fix such a fundamantal problem, Iconic headstock or not.
INHO of course
Greetings from Bavaria
Peter Butler It's not just Gibson guitars that have these issues, which was the point I didn't make very well. I just opened a new Telecaster yesterday and it's suffering from unstable tuning right out of the box. The reason? Poor finishing of the nut, which will be easily rectified with some patience and fine grit sandpaper.
I also opened a new 2016 LP Standard yesterday (in a lovely Tea Burst finish) and it's staying in tune beautifully right out of the box.
Point being, these are production guitars and it's not unreasonable to expect that some setup will be necessary, given storage conditions, shipping conditions and, yes, QC conditions. Doesn't make them bad guitars, just guitars in need of adjustment. A guitar can go from so-so to great in a matter of minutes with the proper adjustments.
Replacing the nut on a new guitar is an extreme measure and hardly ever necessary, something I think Phil said in passing without emphasizing that it's almost never necessary. The axe would be going back before it ever got to that.
$2,800 is a lot of scratch, no doubt, for a guitar, but many, many folks overreact to the nth degree over these issues when the solution is usually as simple as learning how to set up your own guitar and then doing so.
Hey Philip, just out of curiosity I was wondering what type of Les Paul that was? It looks very similar to my 2007 GOW #34 with the black overspray on the top side.
+Craig Melvin That was a Gibson Standard.
does this apply to my Rbb Flynn Epiphone Love Death baritone model?? Cuz I really dont want to replace the original nut on it. Sadly I do have to adjust the neck as the 3d string is out too...abot a 1/2 step from freeting an octave chord at the 5th fret and then trying to at the 14th or so..way out..been awhile shince Ive tried to adjust a string thats out..anyways,I hope the nut is better because its a sig model he actually uses,lol..I need to recheck the specs to see what type of nut it has,for sure..seems plastic to me..:-(.
I just got a new 339, and I must say that I was very pleasantly surprised at how good the fit and finish is. Mine certainly has no issues with the finish or the paint anywhere. I noticed that my nut was already cut with the angle in it, but then the string crimps before the nut. In any event, tuning stability has been no worse than my strat. My one issue - easily fixed - is that I wish it had come with locking tuners, but since it came with Grover Rotomatics, the locking version of the same tuners turned out to be a drop in replacement. Other than that, it's everything anybody could want - I'm very impressed at the build quality, quite frankly.
One minor critique of the video if that's ok...I wish there was less playing and strumming in between the conversation because, as cool as it looks, the volumes don't match and every time the guitar is strummed as if to put in a punctuation mark, it drowns out what was being said.
Every Gibson nut has to be set up and for me using 11's have eliminated most of my tuning issues. Will say it's a bit harder to play but worth it for tuning stability. Seth Lover created humbuckers with 12's as standard strings for them.
does somebody know what is he playing at 0:37?
My Epiphone Tony Iommi SG has a graphite nut with no tuning issues. My Gibson ES-335 has a corian nut and all kinds of tuning issues. That's really crazy considering the cost difference.
The answer that a lot of people seem to be looking for is later in this long post. I look at this way; violins and classical guitars have had similar designs with headstocks for a very long time. While the headstocks themselves may or may may not be tilted on some of those instruments, the strings are bent pretty hard over the nut and into the center of the headstocks where the strings connect. Depending on how the strings are wound on those instruments, the strings could pull left or right. Those instruments are still made that way after hundreds of years. ............... I am an exclusive Gibson player at this point in rock and roll life. I have owned an Explorer, 3 Les Pauls and a Doubleneck. I still have two Les Pauls, a 91 and a 16.
The 16 records very well and my playing is far better on it than on my trusty old 91 that I have played since it was new. The 91 is also amazing, but the frets are a bit worn.The 16 is now my main guitar because of results on recording playbacks. It is a really impressive guitar.
I don't have the issues mentioned here in this video and never have with any of my Gibsons or with other Gibsons that I have played in all of these years, but I have a process for putting new strings on that really helps keep the guitars in tune. I learned it from a guitar store manager when I returned an Ibanez about 25 years ago because the Ibanez would not stay in tune, but it did after I began doing what I will explain here. I have used this and another trick on all of my guitars over the years including ESP, Ibanez, Yamaha and Jackson even though this first part of the process is not necessary on the guitars with locking nuts. I liked all of those guitars a lot and I happily played more than a few of them for years, but they weren't Gibsons. There is a sound, tone and feel that really inspires me to play and only Gibson has it. I have been playing ONLY Gibsons for about 26 years with very few exceptions.
Before I explain further, just to get on the same page, when you are going to put a new string on, turn the stringless machine post so that the post hole openings point towards the top of the headstock and the nut.
Then follow these steps. It's 1,2,3, quick but I will put a lot of detail here and it will look like 100, 200, 300. Once you follow along, you will see that it doesn't add more than 10 minutes to a string change.
The first trick is what the guy taught me and it includes only winding as much string as is necessary to keep the string on the guitar. Figure out what that is on your guitar. Don't wind all of the string excess. All of that extra string around the post interferes with string tension and will stretch and cause tuning issues.
Enough string for one or two complete winds around the post is what I use for the 1st 4 strings, but you may want a little more if you don't follow all of these steps.
I add at least another half wind on the 5th and 6th strings. This trick is part of staying in tune on any guitar that does not have a locking nut or locking tuner.
Before you wind any string, stick it through the post and determine the amount that you will cut off.
Don't cut until the last step.
Once you have determined how much string you will cut off, take the excess part of the string, bend it sharp (kink it) at the post hole, wrap it around the post (you will be wrapping it towards the center of the headstock). You are wrapping the string half way around the post, bring it under the string on the other side of the post and bend it back over the top of the string.
Got it? ...So here is what you have at this point; Lets say it's one of the bottom 3 strings (E, B or G) ..... The string comes up the fretboard, straight through the post hole, makes a sharp left turn (kink) around the post towards the center of the headstock, goes under the string and kinks back over the top of the string. You now have a hook to prevent the string from slipping. You just made yourself a DIY locking tuner! Tighten it up. Make sure the kinked hook stays around the string as you tighten. Tune the string.
Do this with all strings (the top 3 strings will be done in a mirror fashion to the bottom three. Always bend towards the center of the headstock. Bring it under the string and kink it over the top.) and tune up. ...........
You can now tune and play with less tuning issues, but I do something else to make a huge difference in tuning stability.
You just followed this and changed your strings. You tuned up. Now lay the guitar flat on your lap or on a table. Grab the first string with both hands. Place one hand over the pick up area and one over the 5th or 7th fret area and bend your finger tips under the first string.
SO you have your fingers over the strings and under the first string at those points. As you are grabbing the string this way, stretch the string. Bend your hands away from each other. Then bend them towards each other. Stretch the string out. It will now be drastically untuned. Retune that string. Do this again and several times until the string stays very close to tuned. Do this with each string. Stretch it good, BUT Be careful not to snap the thinner strings! Tune the guitar. You should be good to go. Using a lubricant in the nut slots is useful, but I never do and once my guitars are stretched out they only require normal, minimal tuning as any guitar does.
I usually try not to apply too much downward pressure on the nut as I stretch the strings, so work that out. As I stretch the string certain ways, I lift it a little off the nut or keep that hand closer to the nut at times just to reduce downward pressure.
If you still have major tuning problems then your guitar probably needs a set up.
Don't keep your guitar near a sunny window or heat source. That will mess up the neck and tuning.
I hope this helps!
I’ve got a Gibson Explorer with a string lock that pulls the strings straight through the nut, would this still be an issue for me?