i'm so happy they finally buffed it to make it actually viable. those damage mod changes were insanely effective at making me not feel bad for taking it!
@@ojb_ yeah, but one day you're going to blow up. I love deep pockets. I have some builds with it, some builds without. And every time I don't have it, I hate life.
@@ojb_ Ive been using Deep Pockets nonstop for the past 1,400 hours and it still makes me gag knowing people decide Vampire is somehow a better perk than it.
see, i can see why people cling to vampire, because the vamp/IW synergy can be outrageously strong in the craziest modded difficulties. having one person pop iron will, revive, and then stay alive to tag team a revive/output just a tiny amount of damage, etc. CAN be the difference between a win and a loss. because just simple revive chaining where you iron will and die having accomplished only one thing is much weaker than iron will and doing two things, because dying (even in a gunner shield) is time you're stealing from your teammates now having to revive you too. i'm of the opinion that this fail state that vampire truly shines in is rare, but i do recognize it is valuable and it absolutely exists. the problem is just that i'm also of the opinion that it's rare enough to not sacrifice a perk slot for it even at the (undeniable) loss of winrate that taking it off creates. now, i don't think vampire is as big a deal in solo versus multiplayer, because solo gives you a lot more control over where you're holding / how else you can recover / simplifies what you "need" to do in those bad situations, so it's important to state my bias too. back in the day when i still ran vampire, i found the truly cooked situations where i needed vampire to come back from a bad iron will because there was no other recovery available - really just didn't guarantee a win anyway. vampire hp is NOT enough to come back from if the situation has really gone down the tubes in true solo. recognizing that was my first big turning point against having the perk in my loadouts, and then it was a more thoughtful discussion over why i felt this way before i believed i was doing the right thing. deep pockets is underrated as hell though, and still needs to worm its way into more modded player's loadouts because they're missing out on substantial pacing gains that are easy to overlook.
Sorry for the late response (was on holiday!). I'm not sure, honestly. I am notoriously terrible at trying to balance things lol, and fat boy is actually a lot trickier to evaluate than I'd want to put exact numbers on. Seriously, this is a surprisingly complex overclock that does a lot of weird and different things that makes it definitely out of my paygrade to say anything definitive on. I do think +2 ammo would make it more appealing to general (western) modded players (who may think it underperforms currently), but the competition is breach cutter, and that competition is steep. It's hard to compete with one of the strongest weapons in the game and a tougher question to ask whether or not it really should. (like, is breach cutter even a level of fair that we should be aspiring towards?) I've been more and more on the side of the fence that breach cutter is basically red coilgun, so we probably shouldn't want everything to powercreep up to those levels, and if that's the case we have to be careful where fat boy ends up because the unique things it does definitely are strong.
@@ojb_ You mentioned western modded players. Is fatboy seen as a top pick by players in the east? Is there somewhere one could see videos or builds of these engy fatboy mains? Or is this video basically a showcase of that? BTW breach cutter being red coilgun is a good laugh.
As far as I'm aware, fat boy is still meta in most of the eastern scene. They play different difficulties than we tend to do out here - their 11x1.7 is the most common one akin to our 6x2 in terms of popularity I think, and it tweaks some breakpoints and bug speeds in a different scale than haz6/beyond tend to do so it's not a direct comparison of haz11 vs haz6 or anything like that. The impact of those changes (as well as the meta they've adapted - eastern tends to have a lot more coilgun use, for example, while it's kinda softbanned in the west) has solidified fat boy as a solid pick for what their specific difficulties / team compositions require, and the radiation in particular is important for their clear. Most of the uploaded stuff isn't on youtube but bilibili, and in Chinese. As a non-Chinese speaker myself, it's a very difficult language barrier to try and find this stuff without having someone who knows the scene more intimately link you things directly lol (and I'm not that knowledgable, sorry). Here's a scout POV of some 11x1.7 where at least the engy has fat boy so you can watch from a distance. I bet the other perspectives are out there to find but this is the best I've got so far hah: www.bilibili.com/video/BV1Ji4y1r79b/
@@ojb_ Wow thanks for the through response. Hey man don't sweat it, this is some arcane knowledge you are giving me. Look like one hell of a rabbit hole to go down. Thanks for pulling some of that stuff out.
I remember LazyMaybe saying this once and I'm here to parrot it again. "If this overclock didn't change the sound of the grenade nobody would take this". Real shit though this thing is fine, makes no sense for a non-engie main like me because why would you take one of the weakest builds on a character with some of the strongest secondaries? I can only imagine the haha funny nuke response being a genuine answer. This thing is still alright but damn dude they need make you do a mandatory license course when you get it, so many of my hosted pubs get littered with denied space, friendly fire, and mediocre dot because some happy go lucky idiot brings it and just hail mary's a group of 5 grunts for no fucking reason. Seriously I want to say theres more hate for Fat Boy because only idiots seem to use it than there is hate for being not that good lol. Good run as always boss.
honestly i think the fact that it does mediocre dot is partially underappreciated because the "denied space" really isn't as impactful as it seems because of that lol. the game's VFX makes it seem very bad and ouch oof my shields owie, but you can totally run through nuclear fallout without really losing too much because of it. i mean, look how many times i basically nuke my own ring in this run and it's not the end of the world. that dot does just enough to tickle down swarmers, jellies, and most grunts, while giving you some lingering upsides versus the guys that live through it. granted, you can argue that the other secondaries do the same thing with a LOT more ammo (and it's true), but fat boy has some unique things that it does that other secondaries simply can't. and for me that's the terrain clear. i value it as highly as i value carve c4 - when used effectively, you move literal mountains.
@@ojb_ Hmm well said. Maybe my opinion of Fat Boy is more skewered partially because I'm too used to people shooting the grenade at me and several years of Radioactive Praetorian trauma when I hear the radiation sound effect. The Swarmer tunnel example speaks the greatest to me however, If I'm not stealing free kills from my teammates am I really playing Driller? An Engie player would likely have the same mindset in the never ending power struggle to pad stats
honestly it's worse in solo than multiplayer IMO. because fat boy has some downsides (no "get off me" button like breach cutter has), you're able to lean into your teammates' strengths to pick up that slack, and that's just something that doesn't exist in solo. fwiw, fat boy is basically meta in Chinese modded, but they tend to play different difficulties than the western scene. the extra resups are nice for ammo, but honestly all that lets you do is cause more chaos and not use your shots more intelligently :) i think in the hands of a good player looking to improve / paying attention to their impact, fat boy is more than viable in multiplayer. now, will it surpass something like roll control in sheer impact? probably not, because roll control is busted. also they sit in different niches and do different things, so it's tough to compare. BUT, fat boy absolutely is takeable and really not that bad. i personally like taking fat boy into industrial sabotage myself for the quad vent value!
I actually kinda like them! They can be super toxic at times, but they might unironically be my favorite of the newest enemies added. I like that they force you to commit to pushes sometimes that you'd otherwise never have an incentive to go into. Definitely pretty fun as scout, at least. Driller... maybe not so much.
@@ojb_ this is my take on them. I love them. Commit to pushing. It encourages better play from the entire team. I also love them as driller, because I get to make crazy mole tunnels trying to find where to go. Naturally, scout is the best class to deal with them. But yeah, they are my favorite enemy in the game now.
![I Beat The WORST PvZ Knockoff [The Movie]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/l80FJTCGUuU/mqdefault.jpg)
![[DRG] Massive Content Revise - Elite Salvage Operation (Redone in Shallow Grotto)](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/aFVZQ2gmr-s/mqdefault.jpg)
Pastebin with this difficulty, in case you wish to play along (you need the beta version of CD2!):
pastebin.com/raw/3Uvs46ze
The stubby genuinely has such satisfying sounds and animations that I can’t help but use it
i'm so happy they finally buffed it to make it actually viable. those damage mod changes were insanely effective at making me not feel bad for taking it!
I don't know how to feel.. favorite drg youtuber uses and demonstrates most hated OC. This can only mean bad things for my lobbies.
well the good news is scouts still take cryo nades and people are still sleeping on deep pockets, so my impact can't be that high :D
@@ojb_ yeah, but one day you're going to blow up. I love deep pockets. I have some builds with it, some builds without. And every time I don't have it, I hate life.
@@ojb_ Ive been using Deep Pockets nonstop for the past 1,400 hours and it still makes me gag knowing people decide Vampire is somehow a better perk than it.
see, i can see why people cling to vampire, because the vamp/IW synergy can be outrageously strong in the craziest modded difficulties. having one person pop iron will, revive, and then stay alive to tag team a revive/output just a tiny amount of damage, etc. CAN be the difference between a win and a loss. because just simple revive chaining where you iron will and die having accomplished only one thing is much weaker than iron will and doing two things, because dying (even in a gunner shield) is time you're stealing from your teammates now having to revive you too. i'm of the opinion that this fail state that vampire truly shines in is rare, but i do recognize it is valuable and it absolutely exists. the problem is just that i'm also of the opinion that it's rare enough to not sacrifice a perk slot for it even at the (undeniable) loss of winrate that taking it off creates.
now, i don't think vampire is as big a deal in solo versus multiplayer, because solo gives you a lot more control over where you're holding / how else you can recover / simplifies what you "need" to do in those bad situations, so it's important to state my bias too. back in the day when i still ran vampire, i found the truly cooked situations where i needed vampire to come back from a bad iron will because there was no other recovery available - really just didn't guarantee a win anyway. vampire hp is NOT enough to come back from if the situation has really gone down the tubes in true solo. recognizing that was my first big turning point against having the perk in my loadouts, and then it was a more thoughtful discussion over why i felt this way before i believed i was doing the right thing.
deep pockets is underrated as hell though, and still needs to worm its way into more modded player's loadouts because they're missing out on substantial pacing gains that are easy to overlook.
@R4hmiel
| one day you're going to blow up
i see your c4, driller man. you can't fool me!
The best thing about the fatboy is see all the bugs ragdolls when you fire. The otimization mod was a boner killer this time 😢
right there with you tbh. i love ragdolls but my potato pc doesn't :(
Fantastic run and commentary as usual! Do you think fat boy would be overtuned if it got a buff of say +2 ammo?
Sorry for the late response (was on holiday!). I'm not sure, honestly. I am notoriously terrible at trying to balance things lol, and fat boy is actually a lot trickier to evaluate than I'd want to put exact numbers on. Seriously, this is a surprisingly complex overclock that does a lot of weird and different things that makes it definitely out of my paygrade to say anything definitive on. I do think +2 ammo would make it more appealing to general (western) modded players (who may think it underperforms currently), but the competition is breach cutter, and that competition is steep. It's hard to compete with one of the strongest weapons in the game and a tougher question to ask whether or not it really should. (like, is breach cutter even a level of fair that we should be aspiring towards?) I've been more and more on the side of the fence that breach cutter is basically red coilgun, so we probably shouldn't want everything to powercreep up to those levels, and if that's the case we have to be careful where fat boy ends up because the unique things it does definitely are strong.
@@ojb_
You mentioned western modded players. Is fatboy seen as a top pick by players in the east?
Is there somewhere one could see videos or builds of these engy fatboy mains? Or is this video basically a showcase of that?
BTW breach cutter being red coilgun is a good laugh.
As far as I'm aware, fat boy is still meta in most of the eastern scene. They play different difficulties than we tend to do out here - their 11x1.7 is the most common one akin to our 6x2 in terms of popularity I think, and it tweaks some breakpoints and bug speeds in a different scale than haz6/beyond tend to do so it's not a direct comparison of haz11 vs haz6 or anything like that. The impact of those changes (as well as the meta they've adapted - eastern tends to have a lot more coilgun use, for example, while it's kinda softbanned in the west) has solidified fat boy as a solid pick for what their specific difficulties / team compositions require, and the radiation in particular is important for their clear.
Most of the uploaded stuff isn't on youtube but bilibili, and in Chinese. As a non-Chinese speaker myself, it's a very difficult language barrier to try and find this stuff without having someone who knows the scene more intimately link you things directly lol (and I'm not that knowledgable, sorry). Here's a scout POV of some 11x1.7 where at least the engy has fat boy so you can watch from a distance. I bet the other perspectives are out there to find but this is the best I've got so far hah:
www.bilibili.com/video/BV1Ji4y1r79b/
@@ojb_
Wow thanks for the through response. Hey man don't sweat it, this is some arcane knowledge you are giving me.
Look like one hell of a rabbit hole to go down. Thanks for pulling some of that stuff out.
I remember LazyMaybe saying this once and I'm here to parrot it again. "If this overclock didn't change the sound of the grenade nobody would take this".
Real shit though this thing is fine, makes no sense for a non-engie main like me because why would you take one of the weakest builds on a character with some of the strongest secondaries? I can only imagine the haha funny nuke response being a genuine answer. This thing is still alright but damn dude they need make you do a mandatory license course when you get it, so many of my hosted pubs get littered with denied space, friendly fire, and mediocre dot because some happy go lucky idiot brings it and just hail mary's a group of 5 grunts for no fucking reason. Seriously I want to say theres more hate for Fat Boy because only idiots seem to use it than there is hate for being not that good lol.
Good run as always boss.
honestly i think the fact that it does mediocre dot is partially underappreciated because the "denied space" really isn't as impactful as it seems because of that lol. the game's VFX makes it seem very bad and ouch oof my shields owie, but you can totally run through nuclear fallout without really losing too much because of it. i mean, look how many times i basically nuke my own ring in this run and it's not the end of the world. that dot does just enough to tickle down swarmers, jellies, and most grunts, while giving you some lingering upsides versus the guys that live through it. granted, you can argue that the other secondaries do the same thing with a LOT more ammo (and it's true), but fat boy has some unique things that it does that other secondaries simply can't.
and for me that's the terrain clear. i value it as highly as i value carve c4 - when used effectively, you move literal mountains.
without fat boy, how would i steal all the kills on swarmer tunnels that my friends are farming to inflate their kill counts?
@@ojb_ Hmm well said. Maybe my opinion of Fat Boy is more skewered partially because I'm too used to people shooting the grenade at me and several years of Radioactive Praetorian trauma when I hear the radiation sound effect. The Swarmer tunnel example speaks the greatest to me however, If I'm not stealing free kills from my teammates am I really playing Driller? An Engie player would likely have the same mindset in the never ending power struggle to pad stats
Is it just because it’s solo and you get to take advantage of extra resups or is fat boy usable on 6x2?
honestly it's worse in solo than multiplayer IMO. because fat boy has some downsides (no "get off me" button like breach cutter has), you're able to lean into your teammates' strengths to pick up that slack, and that's just something that doesn't exist in solo.
fwiw, fat boy is basically meta in Chinese modded, but they tend to play different difficulties than the western scene.
the extra resups are nice for ammo, but honestly all that lets you do is cause more chaos and not use your shots more intelligently :) i think in the hands of a good player looking to improve / paying attention to their impact, fat boy is more than viable in multiplayer.
now, will it surpass something like roll control in sheer impact? probably not, because roll control is busted. also they sit in different niches and do different things, so it's tough to compare. BUT, fat boy absolutely is takeable and really not that bad. i personally like taking fat boy into industrial sabotage myself for the quad vent value!
All my homies hate scale brambles
I actually kinda like them! They can be super toxic at times, but they might unironically be my favorite of the newest enemies added. I like that they force you to commit to pushes sometimes that you'd otherwise never have an incentive to go into. Definitely pretty fun as scout, at least. Driller... maybe not so much.
@ojb_ i don't really hate them i just said it because algorithm reason
@@ojb_ this is my take on them. I love them. Commit to pushing. It encourages better play from the entire team. I also love them as driller, because I get to make crazy mole tunnels trying to find where to go. Naturally, scout is the best class to deal with them. But yeah, they are my favorite enemy in the game now.
@@ojb_ if i played driller i can freeze him - another reason chose cryo driller