Calvin Robinson & Robyn Henderson-Espinoza: Has woke theology gone too far?
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- Опубліковано 28 кві 2022
- Anti-woke Anglican ordinand Calvin Robinson engages with Transqueer Latinx theologian Dr Robyn Henderson-Espinoza on whether 'woke' theology is creating a more inclusive faith or a dangerous diversion from historic Christianity.
For Dr Robyn Henderson-Espinoza: linktr.ee/irobyn
For Calvin Robinson: / calvinrobinson
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One of the things I have been noticing the woke spokesmen have in common: use of big words to discribe nothing. Wereas non-woke persons speak normally and it has real content.
💯
And list all of their accomplishments, and degrees, while attempting to sound humble in order to assert their authority in the subject.
“You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks out of his own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies.”
John 8:44
It is obscurantism to confuse, deflect and avoid being pinned down to anything.
“I don’t like labels.”
Proceeds to love labels.
Right😂
The most helpful function the labels serve is to confirm a severe lack of self-awareness.
Thank you Calvin for robustly upholding clear and self-evidently true biblical understanding!
Thanks for having Calvin. It’s as simple as he suggests: we should “ identify” as Christian at all times everywhere. Key seems to be the focus on Christ as opposed to all the social construct nonsense, all focused on SELF.
At the 24 years I was dramatically rescued by Jesus from a demonic spirit. The next day I was born again, free from 2 areas of addiction. 16 years later, ten years into a good marriage, a homosexual spirit, I believe, came on me, causing me to feel sexual attraction to men. I held my ground (Eph 6:13) for one full year, after which it departed. I believe many psychologically vulnerable people who are not solidly moored to the truth of God can fall prey to such an overwhelming attack. So yes, prayer is very important, and perhaps in some cases deliberate exorcism. Be Blessed!
Calvin is spot on here. I'm fortunate that (so far) my church of England church that I attend hasn't given in to wokeism....
Did you watch-listen to their dialogue? Calvin said the opposite rather the church of England is the Meca of wokeism.
@@vecumex9466 yes I did watch it - You haven't understood my post though.
The church of England has been rotting for a long time now, it will come to your church too, there are very few brave people left.
Their related schools has given into false gospel
I would argue any group that preaches counter to the gospel is not part of the church, since the church in itself is the body of Believers (Romans 16:5) not the building. Part of me is baffled by the fact that people are even willing to debate heretics like this the disciples would have just said “your not a believe because of a,b,c” and moved on and excommunicated the individuals until they repented which is the biblical thing to do according to Paul. I do like Calvin though he’s is a very smart man.
Thank you Justin for your perseverance! I'm not sure I've ever heard two such ideologically different people talk more congenially. Thanks also to Calvin and Robyn for conversing without hurling accusations or shouting at each other. This kind of open, respectful exchange is exactly what our world needs right now.
I actually prefer the heated debates that turn into sparring matches, they are way more entertaining to watch then respectful discussions
Are you serious! The "they Latinx ..." person is a fraud.
I find it staggering when the C of E should be crying out for people like Calvin that he gets rejected whilst others who barely believe in Christ let alone the scriptures go on to be ordained.
It's because he would show the bishops for what they are, hireling shepherds.
That the the weakness of a religion that wishes to expand and control the world.
I myself could do a theology degree in Christianity as an infidel and climb the ladder of the church.
@@hexa1905 "the weakness of a religion that wishes to expand and control the world."
That's not Christianity.
Well said. Exactly what I've been thinking ever since I heard that Calvin had been forbidden ordination, and on what grounds. The CofE is indeed in desperate straits. God is not mocked.
Hold the Line Calvin Hold the Line ! 🙌
Wow, so impressed by Calvin's commitment to biblical truth. The really sad part is Robyn is counseling and teaching others as a "theologian." He is leading many people away from biblical truth. Tragic
I've learned long ago that anyone can be a "pastor" or "theologian" in every single heretical theological position under the sun. I'd take an old lady who can't even read but who has truly lived out, robust faith in Christ teaching me than some of these "theologians". This person teaches at Duke Divinity School for goodness sake......yikes.
The problem with that is according to the bible their blood is on his hands. He will be asked of their blood
@@jackisgallant clearly a confused woman, but woman nonetheless 😅
@@jackisgallant Yeah very clearly a woman dressing as a man which is sinful. She is a false teacher leading people to hell.
@@ryankmyles3922 Clearly a confused man. But a man... without question. Robert ( not ' Robyn') is deluded.
Thank God for Calvin! 🙌 May God continue to bless and make a way for you as you faithfully speak the truth of God’s word. I found Robyn’s worldview to be really quite confused and contradictory and not a coherent one! Hats off to both for a respectful conversation 👏
I've got a lable for Calvin. "Good and faithful servant." God bless him.
I think we have really lost focus on God when we say things like I'm willing to be a Christian as long as I can do what I want to do.
A discussion, not a debate.
Quite civil. Interesting and worthwhile.
Very well moderated.
“I use terms like trans-queer-LatinX because of apophatic theology.” Wait, what? Apophatic theology is about how God is beyond all names and beyond all categories. Why would this inspire us to apply labels to ourselves? Every human is an image-bearer, and has nearly limitless potential to reflect God, and you think the appropriate response is to slap labels on yourself? “Sure, I’m a microcosmic infinity reflecting the macrocosmic infinity, but what’s REALLY important is that I’m gay.”
Brilliant comment.
Right?!
@@otaku4Gaijin nerd 4 white pipol?
Glad I'm not the only one seeing the hypocrisy here.
@Alex Stock William Franke has a paper about this titled "A Negative Theological Critique of Postmodern Identity Politics," if you haven't already read it. :)
I agree with Calvin. The Archbishop of Canterbury is coming from a woke world which is disappointing.
Welby is blindly given into a warped world so his attitude is warped
The Archbishop is destroying the CoE, thinking he is saving it. He is a Trogan Horse and does not know it.
Amen, Calvin! Amen!
'Celibacy is not a dirty word.' God calls us all to live holy lives because God is holy.
Calvin, I admire your being true to Christ's teachings and to your mission. Speaking from my own experience, I know that truth hurts more than anything else. That is the reason why you get attacked so much. Of course, it is easier to give in to our desires rather than abstain from them. As an Orthodox Christian I share all of the beliefs that you have addressed in this episode. Prayer and fasting are key to true enlightenment and without them I doubt that anyone will be able to be saved. Hedonism is the opposite, and thus it should be remembered that it opens a door (or rather, a gate) to hell. It is so good to see that there are still people around who realize that, and, which is more important, are prepared to speak out and to face defamation.
God help you, Calvin, and guard you 🙏🙏🙏!
Thank you, Justin, for inviting Calvin and for all of your work!!!
God bless you all!
This was such a wholesome conversation. Wish it could’ve gone longer! Thanks for doing these Justin! This is exactly what we need right now
I pray for Robinson that he continues to stand up for the Gospel.
I wish that I would can to sit with Calvin Robinson for a hour and talk about Christ and today's society.
Dr Calvin Robinson Brilliant Gentleman
I'm a Latino and is known that overwhelming that the Latin community don't like the term Latinx, so Robyn is like they offer a solution for a problem we don't have.
Just hearing Robyn's introduction should be enough for anyone to answer the debate question.
"I'm quite orthodox in my theology in fact" -Robyn Henderson-Espinoza
@@lancewren6870I think he was not joking, just delusional
Thank you Calvin for standing for truth...
“I don’t like labels” - but I’m queer, Latinx, non binary, liberationist, etc…
His hypocrisy is showing lol
I just read this today, and the guests in this video brought it back to mind:
Woe to those who draw sin along with cords of deceit,
and wickedness as with cart ropes,
to those who say, “Let God hurry;
let him hasten his work
so we may see it.
The plan of the Holy One of Israel-
let it approach, let it come into view,
so we may know it.”
Woe to those who call evil good
and good evil,
who put darkness for light
and light for darkness,
who put bitter for sweet
and sweet for bitter.
Woe to those who are wise in their own eyes
and clever in their own sight.
Both guests?
Surely only one guest?!?
@@sandracoombs2255 Both. I mean, sure, the one is obvious... but the other still plays the "racism is evil" power game. Got does not do this. In fact, He judges the races and the nations in the end.
Amen! Porscheguy19,
All the children of devil, the Father of lies will be casted in the fire of damnation for all eternity.
Heaven & Earth will pass away but My WORDS will never pass away.
King Jesus, the Maker of heaven & earth & everything that in them & under the earth!!!
Taking notes! I think conservatives are starting to get the picture of how to have these dialogs. The most important thing is to REJECT THE FRAMING. The best responses we can give a lot of the time is "I don't know what those terms mean."
No, you delegitimise the terms and use your own more handy terms/framing
Great conversation, thank you all.
Wow, what a fantastic conversation!
Thank you for hosting this. This was a great example of how we should handle each other when on different sides of beliefs. People r too triggered now days. This was great to see something actually discussed respectfully with having different opinions. Thank you for doing this. We need more of this.
There are as many “silent majorities” around as there are people who claim to speak on their behalf.
God bless and have mercy on every one in this conversation.
Also it's interesting when Robyn says she and Calvin interpret scriptures differently but she rarely quotes scripture and when she rarely does she does so incorrectly. Praying for her.
Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put forth sweet for bitter and bitter for sweet. Repent Robyn.
43:27 it's incredible how much depth is hidden behind this one liner.
Just one of many seemingly simple statements that shows how complicated the world has become.
I feel like Calvin managed this conversation exceptionally well.
I would say it was an interesting conversation but I think illuminating is more appropriate.
So refreshing to hear people thoughtfully discuss without yelling at each other. Great people, very helpful.
Yeah, but respectful discussions are not nearly as entertaining as debates as sparring matches
That's about where it ends, she needed to be called out as a false teacher.
Thank you Robyn and Calvin for this great conversation!
Thank you for being both clear and humble towards each other despite very clear differences.
When was Robyn clear?
Thank you for your clarity and helping to reawaken my desire to live a Christian life.
This conversation was well done, really liked listening to both perspectives.
I love how even Justin's fixed smile looks patience-strained for this one
God bless you Calvin and I hope you can find a place to do ministry and I hope you can be a trailblazer for forming a British Anglicanism outside the decrepit and tottering institutional C of E along the model of American Anglicans
Wonderful talk!
We aren't black or white. We are all a shade of brown. Some are a lighter brown and some a darker brown. Depends on how much melanin we have. We are just people. One race.
Thank you Calvin. ⭐️
These people can’t defend their ideas hence they resort to word salads and using words they admit they can’t define
This ‘conversation’ makes me imagine a talk show host starting a conversation with ‘we have Lucy here today who is a theologian who wants us to consider “did God really say?” We aim to have a helpful discussion on this subject …
Jesus chose 12 ordinary men, with ordinary understanding to plainly get his message and mission accross. This new culture of 'Academia-eese'. The jargon is clouding obective truth, logic and common sense.
Phd's and decades of study, make big words, not true compassion.
Thank God for people like Mr Robinson who can respectfully yet plainly put across the word of God, understood by sense and reason, true plain theology.
Have doctors testified before governments as to the safety of homosexual sex acts. For example, see WebMD; it states that anal sex can cause urinary tract infections for both gay and straight couples.
@@CH-qc1zt I wonder how long it will be before they remove such information from WebMD and the like.
This issue affect 5 times as many straight couples than gay couples.Straight couples need this information. That is reason enough to study it.
@@CH-qc1zt Some research has already been done on this issue, or we wouldn't have known as much as we already do. It's just a matter of getting medical professional to testify. This should be easy since it does not affect only the gay community by the straight community as well.
Robyn represents everything wrong with the mainstream church right now, sad to say, but is very likeable at a personal level
She represents everything wrong with society right now! A narcissistic focus on difference instead of focusing on what unites us
I have no idea what ‘mainstream church’ you are talking about. Dr. Robyn has been pretty clear that they don’t see themselves as part of the institutional church
I deeply wish more places would stage good-natured debates like this. Not sure if this is indicative of a weak brain, but I find people hashing issues out is the most helpful way for me to draw my own opinions.
Perhaps you’d be surprised by how many civil & deep conversations occur in public fora. I’m think Gospel Simplicity, Jordan Peterson, and Bishop Barron, just for a narrow start.
Same here - I listen to these debates a lot. Helps me to become clearer on my own position towards certain issues.
As a Baptist, a real one, or at least raised Baptist, I would like to assure the audience that Robyn’s “Baptist” position is very, very far from traditional Baptist theology…
I’m sure that most of the cultures of the world, developed and undeveloped, have different words for male and female that are not based on power dynamics nor are socially constructed. It would be very interesting to talk with an anthropologist and see if there are differences cross culturally.
Not really at all…. I mean currently the west is different but throughout history…. Yes there is examples of gender neutral language…. For GODLIKE beings or items that are not gendered…. Or a spiritual term…
It irks when people flash their degrees. Especially within theological debates. If a time machine existed, I suppose they could jump in it, zoom back to the time of Christ, and rattle off their degrees in theology to Jesus, Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, etc, and tell them that they understand them better than they understand themselves.
This was a clear distinguishing between coherent sound Biblical Truth provided by Calvin and the incoherent twisting of Sctipture to "scratch itching ears" by Robyn.
This was refreshingly respectful by all. We need more of these conversations. I think it’s due to all participants being Christian and using that as their main platform. He was the perfect model in navigating relationships. Thank you!
No one the girl or guy?? Is a Christian.
"I don't like labels" says an individual who uses labels in every sentence.
This is a professor?
She said that she doesn't like hypocrite yet she is one.
She said she dislikes labels yet she uses a plethora of then to describe herself.
Here's another one, she says she is a Christian yet she uses labels that contradict her declaration!
Despite the fact that I view many of her beliefs as fundamentally heretical I must commend the lady in this debate for having the decency and bravery to engage in it in the first place, may we pray for her to see the light of God.
Great conversation! Thank you.
I am not from the UK nor the US, culture I live in is different, so I do not have hands-on experience with this matter.
This was the first time I heard anything coming from Calvin Robinson & Robyn Henderson-Espinoza, so I did not come from any of the polarized camps, but admittedly with a bias towards valuing every person's humanity, and with the belief that God fundamentally loves us.
I was AMAZED how composed, understanding, informative, and rational Robyn was. I wish I had that ability. To truly be more understanding of "others". I believe that is fundamentally Christian.
Thank you once again for this conversation!
"male (zakar) and female (neqebah) He created them"
"No you see when they said zakar and neqebah they imported the idea of man and woman into the text. It doesn't say what it says it does because we either have to take all of scripture literally or all of it metaphorically and we can't determine which is which based on context..."
"And in Jesus Christ there is neither male nor female, neither slave nor master, for all are one."
@@MrSeedi76 Yes we are one in Christ, we are the body. Doesn't mean we don't have biological differences! It is very clear there are differences between man and woman and different roles for each.
"To live faithfully is to live Biblically". Great by Calvin
Robyn never quotes with Bible with giving her opinions.
I'm deeply offended that Robyn uses Latinx and completely ignores her Scotx heritage. What a confused irrational mess....
I love Calvin's questions!
What a lot of gobbledegook Robyn Henderson-Espinozadid did spout.
However Calvin was excellent, no wonder the CoE bishops are scared of him.
I’m sure Robyn will be warmly welcomed by the church and unbelievable audience 😂😂
Calvin, The Lord Jesus upset quite a few people didn't he. God bless your wonderful witness. Hope you read this.
See Calvin Robinson along with other speakers at Unbelievable? the Conference on Sat 14 May www.unbelievable.live
Why is it that I know who is who before I watch the video? I must be amazing 🕺🏻🕺🏻🕺🏻
13:45 as a brown man from Chile I ask… what war on black and brown people are we talking about???
Go on Calvin!
Calvin thank you for your clarity, humility, intelligence, compassion but most of all for being a clear follower of Christ. Robyn you come across as confused, not knowing yourself other than through the lens of your credentials.
What sheer insanity.
“Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand”
I hope you realize that this quote was applied to a completely different context.
"Were two or three are gathered in my name, I am amongst them."
I wonder why Robyn chooses to identify as latino instead of scottish
Great Job Calvin
Robyn is absolutely progressive. My identity is first in Jesus. Period.
Lots of people talking about the translation of Adam here so here are my 2 cents.
Adam can be translated as humanity, not just man, so I think Calvin should broaden his understanding as being too literal in the English translations often isn’t helpful.
However, Genesis not only says ‘Adam’ but ‘Eve’ too so there is obviously a point of distinction between the masculine of humanity in Adam and the feminine of eve, there is no way to argue against this. There is humanity but also clearly two genders named for a reason regardless of their translation.
Not finished the episode yet but it does feel like the words ‘compassion and understanding’ are used a lot to create a sense of being the righteous Christlike thing to do rather than answering a direct question.
“Thou shalt not lie with a man as one does with a woman…” the Bible is pretty clear about there being only male and female in passages outside of the creation story. The translation of “Adam” is simply a distraction away from this. I mean use your two eyes and see the distinctions between men and women and how they interact with each other being integral to procreation (which was Gods commandment to Adam and Eve after kicking them out)
It seems for Robyn “conversation” is an end in itself. The elephant in the room is if there is such a thing as Christian truth that transcends culture, and how abstract or particular is it. Perhaps for Robyn “conversation” and the restriction of “power” in all forms is the most broad or broad at the meta level of Christian faith, whereas for Calvin it seems to be the written witness of Scripture. Both beg many questions, of course. I’m not sure many of those questions were broached in this conversation. Perhaps in future?
Unity is to be worked for! Amen.
Not with those who are heretical. Not peace but a sword.
Truth matters. Unity with false teaching is not desirable.
2 Timothy chapter 3 But evil men and impostors will grow worse and worse, deceiving and being deceived.But you must continue in the things you have learned and been assured of,and from childhood you have known the holy scriptures, which are able to make you wise for SALVATION through faith which is in CHRIST JESUS
Accountability and responsibility is part of everyone's informed, personal choices, No one should be forced to accept or be part of someone's personal choice ' your choice is yours'🙏
I audibly spit with laughter when "Robyn" described himself as "Quite Orthodox in my theology"
Too often when apophatic theology is invoked, I find it to be more of a punt, in the vein of an “it’s complicated” relationship status.
Hooooope i can make the conference, oh my word that would be soooooo cool ✝️💙
An example of Christianity dealing...or attempting to deal...with wokeism. My son is a Christian and against abortion and for, through the Spirit, attempting to live Biblically. His wife,,who ostensibly was Christian, finally came out as atheist she decided she's wasted her life being a stay at home mom, raising their two girls, whom she came to see as impediments to her doing something "important" - working and making lots of money. She took a job in Washington state and moved on (we live in Southern California). She supposedly wants my son to leave the girls behind and join her in Washington (I'm not sure that's really what she wants. Because he's a Christian, my son won't divorce her for leaving). She has come out in favor of everything that today is considered woke, considered "in", They were having one of their nightly discussions/talks and discussing abortion after 22 weeks. He did get her to agree that abortion is deliberately killing a baby (I go farther...I consider it murder). She sees nothing wrong with it but tends to think after 22 weeks is possibly not OK. She asked my son why they can't "meet halfway"? My son said he thought they were meeting halfway; they both agreed, basically, that abortion after 22 weeks is not OK. He asked his wife what represented "meeting halfway" to her. Her answer: "You coming over to my side". THERE YOU HAVE IT. THAT IS WOKEISM. YOU AGREE WITH US AND COME OVRR TO OUR SIDE, AND YOU DESERVE TO BE OSTRACIZED, CANCELLED, VILLAINIZED, IF YOU DON'T. YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED TO SPEAK...BUT WE ARE THE "TOLERANT" AND "INCLUSIVE" AND "COMPASSIONATE" ONES.
I hope Calvin you don't get worn down by negativity. The fact is that you'll never win against trolls and negativity, often probably a minority sending multiple after multiple messages.
Why’s the white lady saying she’s a Mexican dude?
I can’t seriously 😅
This man-woman-whatever started MANY sentences with "I think..." What about what the Bible says instead of what you think?
Catholic teaching is that sex is for procreation but also for building the relationship and its place is only in marriage. Building relationship is a very important part of it in Catholic teaching.
And I also would like to say that date have domesticated polarization. We have not. Conservatives especially Christian conservatives don't want to polarize anybody. We are called to love each other and that's all we want to do.
I live in Raleigh NC . I have spoken to several people from that school, and it allows many heretical teachings and is a major LGBTQ supporter. Basically deny what the Bible teaches or change it’s meaning -like Adam to support their views.
When you root yourself in the word Colossians 2:7. And of course they don’t like Calvin. John 15:18. God bless you Calvin. Keep up His good work.
Go CALVIN!
Why did Robyn keep highlighting the Greek word for Adam? The old testament was written in Hebrew. Was this a red herring? Calvin quoted "made them male and female" so what had the Greek word for Adam to do with anything?
If gender is socially constructed then I as a member of society reject the attempts of reconstructing gender.
My Spanish family say Latinx is used exclusively by white, middle class liberals determined to colonise a language and a culture with their own little empire.
I really enjoyed this conversation, Calvin is always eloquent and thoughtful and Robyn's perspective was interesting, it's nice to hear a proper conversation with no name-calling or insults. So kudos to Robyn for taking part. I wish you'd get H M Sealey on, her Christian fantasies are fantastically good at stripping religion from Christianity and just focusing on the King (Jesus) But her dystopian books are even better, she has such a good handle of where the whole identarian thing is going and how bad it could be. Just read This Broken Land or the Privileged Few and tell me you don't feel a chill.
Mine too. We reject that term.
It’s funny how people can’t seem to use a recent Western term like ‘Latinx’ without putting on an accent in order to give it a little more flavour, before immediately dropping it.
This was actually a great exchange. To be honest, I'm surprised. Not because we're incapable of these conversations but because we refuse these conversations. I applaud calvin for standing on truth but I also appreciated Robyn's conversation in spite of that. I think that She responds well to the conservative opinions that differ and there were even glimpses of common ground on subjects like cancel culture and progressivism which was refreshing to see. I respect her for coming on there and having a kind exchange because to be honest I don't find that to be common place from the position that she's coming from. I'll be praying for her, but kudos for the mutual kindness in this conversation. With no disrespect, I'm assuming Robyn's biological gender to be female by facial characteristics if im not mistaken and refuse to say otherwise. If I'm mistaken then replace every she with a He.
I'm glad we all agree DEI training doesn't do anything. Can we please stop it now?