Is playing to track cheating?
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- Опубліковано 21 лип 2019
- My band Sungazer plays to backing tracks - are we cheating? Or are we simply continuing the tradition of Pierre Schaefer and the electroacoustic avant-garde of the 1950's? Or...is that just a pretentious way of justifying lazy practice?
I was recently on an episode of PBS Sound Field where I jammed with Nahre Sol, a classical pianist, and LA Buckner, a gospel/R&B drummer, and talked about our different backgrounds and approaches to playing. Check it out!
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Definition of Acousmatic Music
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ELECTRONIC MUSIC is the new acousmatic music
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The relationship of Husserlian phenomenology to the work of Pierre Schaeffer
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3 Fantaisies for Solo Flute, Op.38
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Peace,
Adam
HEY GUYS! I was recently on an episode of PBS Sound Field where I jammed with Nahre Sol, a classical pianist, and LA Buckner, a gospel/R&B drummer, and talked about our different backgrounds and approaches to playing. Check it out!
ua-cam.com/video/ABQ_0ys3It0/v-deo.html
Also, the background music from 2:01-2:29 is in 17-EDO, where instead of 12 notes per octave I used 17.
Adam I love your videos, keep it up man!!!!
Just came from that video. Nice jam there! Really impressive how Nahre jammed so naturally, knowing her background
Is that All Star you were talking over?
69th like
nice that you can convince yourself in a discussion with ... yourself.
Adam "question in the title, answer in the thumbnail" Neely
He's the anti clickbait clickbait
Didn't expect to see you here, Sawtooth!
It's much more effective than clickbait for me.
@@isetmfriendsofire it's way better and more effective than clickbait for three reasons, 1: he's being honest from the start, so it's trustworthy. 2: it wakes up the curiosity about why he says that, and 3: everybody knows his videos are worth the time.
@@LicMegags Too true, too true
When you realise this video is just 14 minutes of Adam arguing with Adam
Standard Rudy Ayoub stuff.
You mean live Adam arguing with an Adam backing track?
He's totally cheating! A real self debate would be done with a mirror and no electronic enhancements.
*Socratic dialogue intensifies*
Adam Neely vs Nadam Eely
I guess we’re all Contrapoints now
Two of 1975's biggest hits were 10cc's "I'm Not In Love" and Queen's "Bohemian Rhapsody," both of which featured massively overdubbed vocal sections. Both bands used backing tapes for shows, but neither band lipsynced with the tapes (Queen even left the stage during the Galileo Galileo part). This allowed the audience to realize they were hearing prerecorded voices that were impossible to reproduce live, and everyone was fine with this arrangement.
you need better examples- yes KISS today uses track but theyre old- in the 70;s it would have been disgracrful
“You smug VSauce wannabe” made me fall out of my chair and wake up my family. Thank you.
yeah me too man, i always fall out of my chair when there are crossovers between distantly related YT channels
Yeah.. that's a nice homage..
There's a pub bassist on YT smashing the lick on a bass for 5 hours straight.
No wait, it's Adam Neely.
Wait why is so many people liking this comment it ain't even funny
@@unputocalvo because the L I C C
I love your anti-clickbate
It's such a nice breath of fresh air compared to the rest of this site.
Speaking of which, is clickbait cheating?
And I wish more people copied it
r/antiassholedesign
@@thealientree3821 *Vsauce music intensifies
As a member of a symphonic metal band, I think the line is drawn by WHICH instruments are in the backing track. If the instrument CAN be easily played live, it SHOULD be. For example, it simply isnt realistic to incorporate an entire choir or orchestra on stage for every live performance, so it makes sense to use a backing track. If you are lip synching or pantomiming a guitar performance, it feels much more disingenuous.
There's also the added bonus that if you play to a backing track, you can always guarantee an accurate set length.
I agree. A local death metal band in my city (Dischordia) released an EP with some parts with non-standard instruments for the genre, including flute and marimba. When I saw them play it live, they did all of the standard instruments (drums, guitar, bass, vocals) and even the flute live, but the rest was on a backing track. They obviously put a lot of effort and thought into the show, and it was a well-executed and engaging performance. As a three-man band, there is a limit to what they can do live, and hearing the sounds from the recording played over the live performance enhanced the overall experience.
Yeah it's different for different styles. When I go watch some honest death metal I don't want to hear studio sounds I want to hear the loud and somewhat rough live sound. If it's just the studio version why even bother. It's completely different for bands that use non standard instruments.
Since you mention symphonic metal. Let's consider Nightwish. For some songs the songwriter writes part for an entire orchestra, but usually the band isn't touring with an orchestra. It would be ridiculous to expect everything would be played live. The band wouldn't be what it is without those instruments written into the songs.
Of course, since Nightwish was brought up, even a sick singer isn't always an excuse...
I would also say that it should not just be POSSIBLE, but also REALISTIC. In the rug rundown for Periphery I believe, he mentions that there are backing tracks of another guitar playing harmonies in a few parts because “it just doesn’t make sense to take a sixth person to split the money with, because they would be a fourth guitar player and would have a few lines per song, nothing that would be musically satisfying” which makes complete sense to me.
What’s the name of your band
So that's why Ed Sheeran always has to explain his loop pedal to the audience every time he performs.
Yeah, and that's why his looper pedal is so large.
@@ClockworkCreep naw bro, big looper means you get moar toan
hes ed sheeran not a rocker
@@saltybutsain6348 the way you spelt that was funny
Yeah, all you lazy guitarists should stop using delays and just play everything a bunch of times ...
I've noticed that a pianist was doing just that at a concert two weeks ago. He had some effects pedals, so he just wanted to get the timing perfect I guess. Real and authentic™ AF
Rob Scallon did a video where he imitated a delay effect by having multiple guitarists playing the same thing at slightly different times.
I really think this is a stretch in terms of an analogy. We're talking about modulation of sound vs. sound source. I don't think the comparison holds water.
Perhaps it's even a joke
Mfw when you can't afford a Carbon Copy but still want the gaze
"We can do research, too. That's when we are at our most obnoxious."
What is most obnoxious is positng what we've just heard spoken only moments ago.
@Russell WhiteWhat is truly obnoxious is pointing out that I pointed that you pointed out.
@Russell White The fact that you're so insistent on being pessimistic about the amount of time that we'll be here is the really obnoxious part
@@kameqblindweaver8296 Hmm, but is it more obnoxious than pointing out that he's being pessimistic when he's simply pointing out facts though? (Oh wait, so he's obnoxious toward facts??)
That guy on the classical guitar was hilarious
he nailed it xDDD
In all seriousness though, if you ever put distortion on a classical guitar it sounds SICK. Look up the Nylocaster with distortion pedals to hear.
"Is music some kind of zero sum activity with a clear loser an winner?"
Yes, didn't you have Asian parents and music competitions?
c o m p e t i t i v e j a z z
No
@@michaels882 first one to hit the butter notes loses.
lmao true
"Vsauce wannabe"
I'm dead
Don’t forget “smug”
Yeah is this the first time he referenced vsauce🤔 many people comment that this is vsauce for music but adam never talked about that I guess
I like his Vsauce-style style more than the broadcast-television documentarian style he tried on 'The worst jazz solo of all time'.
1:41 fourth wall was broken and was a little too much to handle for Adam.....
His face KILLED me
didnt i just see you on that reddit story video or am i losing it
You didn't even put the right time stamp🤨🤡
I feel like everywhere I turn I see a comment of yours
"musicians of the past didn't use backing tracks"
Have you even seen how much instruments there are in orchestras? You can't expect a rock band have that amount of sound density.
And didn't RUSH play several tunes live -- with a sequencer playing on auto, essentially a backing track?
@@redgrey1453 As did The Who and Queen. Queen would use a track when they did Bohemian Rhapsody because they couldn't do the opera bit live. The Who would use a track for songs like Baba O'Riley, Won't Get Fooled Again, Who Are You, Eminence Front and a few others because they've got synth parts in them.
Some would argue that it isn't meant to.
Not me, but some.
Two words:
Pink Floyd.
@@redgrey1453 Not until the 80s, I believe. Before that it was all triggered live via pedals, Ged or Alex playing Moog Taurus pedals. Once MIDI came along, they started to use programming, but they never used actual tracks, that I know of. 6 and 1 half dozen of the other and it is the same as using a drum machine on stage rather than a tape recording of a drum machine, but using the machine adds an element of DANGER lol. Whereas I always used a DAT then a MiniDisc player, with the drums on one side and the instruments (at one point bass and synths, eventually just synths) in the other, depending on what band members I could get. Drummers were always the hardest for electro bands where I couldn't also get a keyboard player.
Working in the theater world, I am more off put by the use of backing tracks to replace human musicians for which the producer doesn't want to pay. Why have a 13-piece orch when I can get away with 6 and some rockin tracks. It feel like a true subversion of the intent of live theater.
what's next? projecting actors on a screen instead of them playing their parts live?!
@@realGBx64 Well... We aren't as far from that as you might think. I saw a touring cast that used vocal tracks on top the cast to "sweeten" it up. Felt like a church children's musical.
We struggle with this in our opera shows, since string players are hella expensive and you need a conductor for a performance that not many people are going to pay to see. The farthest we can pare it down is one live pianist to save money. It’s a tough situation for non-profit community theater to struggle with. Bigger shows like regional theater and Broadway tours should have live musicians, though, otherwise it’s just karaoke.
@@doubleclickdrama Dude we already have it. They're called movies. They were being sarcastic.
@@realGBx64 I thought that's how they did the Michael Jackson show after his death XD
After watching this, I can safely say that backing tracks are to be used as a SUPPLEMENT, and not a REPLACEMENT.
This is the answer. I would never, ever go to a live show if I knew that all of the members were miming their parts. Why would anyone do that? But I also know that a local band can't hire an entire orchestra to come play at their bar gig - I accept someone slapping some MIDI strings behind their performance, especially if every other band member is busily occupied.
It could be a gateway drug (I mean "supplement") towards no performers needed at all...and then why the hell are you going outside your house to listen to a recording?
It all boils down to feeling the connection, the relatability of the human elements (the emotions, concepts, and experiences that music expresses). I agree with you; if there's at least one actual live performer during a "live" performance, then we still have human relatability present for the music. But if we eventually get to a place where people go out to see a "live" performance with absolutely no person present then we have to wake up immediately to whatever pill we're consoling ourselves with.
They’re fine as a replacement in settings where getting a good performance is likely impossible, for example in many outdoor settings. Otherwise miming feels wrong in a live setting.
And for most if not all of the piece.
See, the main problem i see with playing to track isn't that it's pre-recorded, but that it's "fixed".
How much do you think adam improvises when playing sequence start? I'm gonna say... Barely any improvisation at all.
The thing about live concerts that i like though is exactly that: the unexpected, the improvisation, making do with what you got and evolving the performance in the moment.
If in that moment adam showed where his instruments failed twice in a row they failed a third time too, what would he have done?
If that happened and i was a listener, i would have liked to see him arrange/improvise rather than hear something like "welp guys midi control's bonkers show's over goodbye see ya"
Like ffs, my favorite album of all time, Relayee by Yes got played love only like, twice, and both times there were audio issues on both play and recording... Yet i still enjoyed that.
Because it was, well, live(even if i wasn't there at the concerts tbh), the band had to show they actually knew what they were doing and try to give a decent show anyway, and without putting instrument failures to the conversation, emerson lake & palmer and deep purple also dod a lot of improv or at least variation compared to base songs during their lives, and theirs are some of the best live showa I've ever listened to(live in Stockholm, made in japan, welcome back to the show that never ends, etc)
For non Acousmatic sounds, perfect. Couldn't have phrased better myself
"Shut up you Vsauce wannabe !" Adam's throwing some mad shade at himself. It got a laugh out of me. 😇
How can you possibly criticize someone that criticizes himself? Pure genius really.
I guess, as always, honesty and transparency are key here
I think that’s why people don’t mind electronic music being pre-recorded - they never expected it to be played live
To be fair, at the super bowl, the Red Hot Chili Peppers were forced to mime everything do to logistical problems and actually didn't even plug in their guitars as a sign of protest.
there's a difference between playing to a backing track, and miming. If someone's miming at a live show, that's when you can feel cheated
Yeah, bad analogies there.
What if the singer has a last minute problem like a cold or a vocal chords injury ? For big stars it's not that easy to cancel a huge show with thousands of fans coming from everywhere. And for a small band its not easy to cancel their gigs because.. You need to eat
@@thesteaksaignant depending on the band they either do a instrumental set, cancel the show or get someone to fill in on vocals for that night.
@@thesteaksaignant But that is why big stars cancel shows sometimes. I would want my money back if Mraz came out and just played guitar while his vocals played on backing track. But for a club with local bands? I wouldn't mind much. It still would be a bummer of a show if the music was vocal intensive like any mainstream music with lyrics throughout the song. But it can be explained away by bands at venues where people aren't expecting a spectacle. Backing track solutions are not universal.
@@SamBorgman I essentially agree with you, but I can see why in some cases the decision can be made. For stars it can also be the production that pushes for that solution to avoid the loss of money.
I love that you actually had a good debate with the "Doubter" with actually points, not just painting the audience or opposition as asking stupid questions
The retorts were pretty stupid
For me it depends on the band and the expectations of the show. I went to see Muse and the show was so tight and they sounded just perfect. I know they had tons of backing tracks, but it contributed to the show as a whole, just a big epic performance. If I go to see a jam band though I'm expecting that the songs could sound very different form the album and there's potential for the band to suddenly change directions because they're all in the moment. Playing perfectly composed pieces and pure improvisation both have their places depending on the purpose of the show.
When I was a kid, I actually saw James Taylor in concert. He used that reel-to-reel on "Shower the People" for the backing vocalists, prefacing it with a dry, "Portions of this program may have been prerecorded."
ah "acousmatic" another word for me to casually slip into conversations to make people think im smart
Make sure to drop in more. Musique concréte and especially spectralism.
ME! omg
Why do you think I watch adam neely videos?
Also, "congruent".
I think that's also a mathematical term, but I don't remember what it is.
Ah yes, one extra large combo. With extra acousmaticism, please
Yeah dude, technology is totally killing music. That’s why I never use instruments or mics.
Gavin McMahan I don’t even have a phone . Technology is bad and Thomas Edison was a witch.
thats not.... the point how could you have missed it so much
The sarcasm is strong in this one 😎
@@frozec8568 wooosh
i agree with you bro
For me, to go to see “live music” is really to see the artist interact live with their creations, whether the music is being recreated in that moment or simply being backtracked or even lip-synced. What you’re witnessing is the LIVING relationship between the music and the performers. We are seeing, in a live performance, is what the art means to the artists/performers. You don’t get that from listening to music at home. You don’t even get that from watching a performance on UA-cam. It is, quite literally, a *momentary* event. There will always be variations on how a performer views the music they’re playing at different times. Live performances mark these variations. These changes should be welcomed because that means the artist/performer is developing. Even though it *seems* like it’s the same performance, it never is, because the ever-growing artist is never the same. Contexts are never entirely the same. Major events can happen to the performer between one concert and the next, changing the relationship between them and the music. Whether it’s how they play, what they are playing, or even how they’re interacting with the audience, members, or themselves, the relationship is constantly morphing. In live performances, we are watching artists *live* (l-ih-ve) WITH and IN what they have created and are creating.
I go to a concert, watch the band (one of my all-time favorites) and the singer killing it when the lady next to me says, "Did you know he/she really isn't singing right now. It's a recording. The singer has laryngitis." Granted it's a live show which IS sounding great AND I can't fault the singer for being ill, but am I going to get the same feeling of satisfaction now that I know this? In spite of the fact the band is just rocking the house, having an incredible night, am I going to one day look upon it as one of my favorite concerts ever? No way. The singer's voice was spliced in and I know that fact from the very 1st song.
So at that point I don't give a damn if the singer is "interacting" with his/her creation, or that I'm witnessing a LIVING relationship between the music and the performer. Of course there is a momentous connection between the performance and the performers, that's a given and it's huge, but by their own choice they are now doing a public thing and selling it for money. I want my money's worth. And a lip-synced performance, sick singer or not, is TO ME not as legit. I won't fault the band for their choice to perform, but it won't be as real an experience for me.
Who knows, maybe the only two audience members who know the singer isn't singing is the lady and me. All the others watching, feeling and hearing have no idea there's a recorded singer up there, so their experience will be unfettered by their ignorance. Maybe some of them will say it was the greatest show ever by the best band ever. And to contradict myself a bit, what if that lady hadn't told me...?
So then would you create a specific word for live performed music without any soft of backing tracks/music that is not coming from the artist at the specific moment? Because I'd would be going to those types of concerts, even if I had the choice to go to a concert with backing tracks, I woudn't. I would save my money for those special, niche concert type where the performer makes the music 100%.
@@jbmw16 I've had musical projects before where the entire act was just me and someone, and I programmed drums and recorded bass and played keyboards, and when we performed live I would play guitar over the backing tracks that I had performed because I couldn't find anyone to play the music live. The style of music was niche and it wasn't some sort of band where I could hire people, it was original music where any pay for shows gets funneled back into the band. So, in your mind, artists like myself should be robbed of playing live? The singer and myself would be performing every show. And as I added members to the band, we got closer to not having to use pre-recorded tracks. Until finally we were able to play a few shows before imploding. Probably from gaining all of the new members with all of the opposing opinions, rather than just her and I in the first place, making our music and doing just fine. Electronically based bands have frequently used programmed drums on recordings, so theoretically, they are also being performed live as they were on record. Programmed.
6:25 It feels inauthentic when I hear the word "non-acousmatic" but see the word "non-acousmastic". My cross-modal synthesis gets all messed up.
1:45 “you smug Vsauce wannabe” I laughed so hard I accidentally held my breath and nearly suffocated
So good
yeah lmao
he's finally with that joke
But you can see Ed Sheeran’s loop pedal and hear him creating his “backing track” live. It’s obviously not prerecorded...
You're forgetting average Joe who doesn't know what a loop pedal is and still thinks autotune is a magic voice that makes a bad singer great
@@colmivers I dont know if he does it at every show but when I saw ed live he explained how his loop pedal worked at the start of the show so that people wouldnt get confused by the sound of a 4 piece band coming out of one person with a guitar
@@colmivers Hmm. Watching Madonna at the Eurovision song contest recently, was embarrassing, until the Autotune chromatic mode was turned on for the second song. And yes, it made a bad singer sound...."acceptable"????
*There’s a pub singer on telly...*
Well we know what looper is but it’s only because we’re sad nerds
Going to a concert only to have the musicians play mostly prerecorded music is like going to a Broadway show and seeing a video of the performance.
dude, i would love that opportunity! if broadway keeps refusing to put out pro-shots to the public, id be down for seeing either a live show or a video of the show, just as long as i actually get to see it (but srsly Broadway please please release more pro-shots i beg you)
Like a movie theater?
Yah and if you want a play to be actually real you need the actors to actually die like in Romeo and Juliet or else it isn't a true performance
I got way too excited when you mentioned Pierre Schaeffer. Studying his work is what finally opened my mind to electronic music after years of saying I only liked "real" instruments.
Adam Neely: This is not an authentic experience
*shows acoustic electric guitar solo
I died 😂
not even just acoustic, classical/nylon string acoustic!
That solo is basically legendary.
Yes! Finally, Adam admits he is the Vsauce of music.....
Or is he?
* cue Vsauce intro music *
Hey! Vsauce, Adam Neely here
But *WHAT*... is Adam [weird music plays]
@@sciencecompliance235 is SOUND?
Reading "cue Vsauce intro music" made it play in my head.
Personally, one of the reasons I like live performances in the first place is hearing the creative way they try to recreate the energy of studio version with the constraints they're under, knowing they can't overdub themselves a hundred times. I think a lot of artists put too much emphasis on sounding identical to the original without questioning whether that's necessary, because what sounds good in a studio versus a club versus the Staples Center are all very different things.
So I guess that's my problem with backing tracks. It takes a puzzle that's historically been fun to watch musicians solve and glues the pieces together.
"We can do research too
*That's when we're at our most obnoxious!"*
Yes, that is what he said
No one:
Marching band kids: BuT mArChInG bAnD iS a SpOrT
Drum Corps International would like to have a word with you
bandos*
Let's Jam
Especially those quint players
@@TheOnlyBootlegger You mean Marching Band International.
I remember some fat asshole band kid got out of basketball conditioning because he was in marching band and he thought that marching band was harder. He puked his guts out during tryouts.
Something you don't bring up yet (unless I missed it):
Permitting backing tracks opens up new creative avenues for composers. It lets them work around instruments that aren't present in their band, it let's them combine more layers in their songs and more. It's just another tool of the trade, which comes with costs and benefits.
I'd say you missed the most compelling reason why sometimes people are right to not want their live musicians to play to a track. I think a lot of people (myself included) often really like the creative constraint of a live show needing to be the music a group of people can make together using the instruments they can play. The question of what instruments and technology are available to musicians has shaped every genre and musical tradition we've ever known, and in a way using a backing track while performing is sidestepping this productive creative constraint, often going against some traditions of the style of music the band is trying to play.
Another perspective on the same point: I don't think it's unfair for a concert listener to be a little disappointed to find out that a band sidestepped the question of how to translate a composition and arrangement on a record into a live show with a limited ensemble. That challenge can lead to some very interesting musical places. It's kind of the inverse challenge of a three piece band coming into the studio and working with a producer to build out the arrangement to make a more interesting/ functional record. Granted, using backing tracks isn't the only way to lose this dynamic of the constraints of live shows often making for more interesting music (The Eagles), but from what I can tell, most of the times when bands use backing tracks it's to fill a gap between what they can do alone, and the studio version of the song.
PS I definitely don't think of this as a rule, I saw a 21 Pilots concert with my sister where they used backing tracks for most instruments and it was absolutely insane (because in their pop/rock// whatever genre, the spectacle is more important than this quest for musical intrigue). I also saw a Horse Lords show once where the keyboardist often took breaks from playing keys to use his computer (Max MSP) to mangle, warp, and sometimes just directly play back pre-recorded material, that was also amazing. To me a lot of it has to do with genre, and even beyond that the kind of sociological place of the musicians in question. Obviously working musicians want to be masters of their own fate in the way they write and play their music, but I also think it pays to think about your historical place, the traditions that are coming to bear on you, and why people like what they like.
Yeah I agree. One of the coolest things for me is seeing a beatles tribute band try and play their songs with only two guitarists, a bassist, and a drummer. And maybe a keyboard player. One band I've seen a lot does an absolutely mind blowing cover of A Day In The Life where they manage to sound like the whole double tracked orchestra with only a keyboard player as an extra. That's part of the fun, working out how to play these incredibly complicated things with the bare minimum amount of instruments. It's a game of arrangement and that's really interesting to me
Though I don't dislike the use of backing tracks either. But yeah just a lot of what I play is turning things like electronic music into solo acoustic guitar songs and making it sound good. I love arranging. So I love seeing other musicians doing that too. It's not about getting an exact replica of the recorded track, it's about making something new and interesting because of the constraints you're put under.
"The question of what instruments and technology are available to musicians has shaped every genre and musical tradition we've ever known"
Yeah, and the computer and digital audio workstation are technologies available to musicians, and they are shaping the current musical tradition.
@Matias vanorder gonzalez Since you mentioned the Twenty One Pilots.
I've seen a lot of their live shows and I was kind of disappointed that their approach plays almost no role in the argument of this video. Because they don't use the occasional backing track while performing the rest of the song live, it's usually the opposite. Drums, some piano stuff and most of the singing (and nowadays a trumpet played really off tune by Josh Dun) are performed live, at least the other 50% are completely backing track or pre-recorded loops (In case of the trumpet, please stick to that).
Now the point is; I still believe the two of them to put all of their heart and energy in their live shows, you can clearly see that. Also they do not want to trick anybody, I think no one who goes to a TOP concert expects the songs to played 100% live. And nobody will go "WAIT A MINUTE, Tyler is crowdsurfing but the singing is still going on. I got them! They're CHEATING!"
What this tells me is, there is no "right" way of presenting music right, it's all to do with situation and context. Depending on the genre, the festival, the musician, the band, the instruments used etc. the audience expects a certain part of music performed live. If that expectation is confirmed by the actual show - good. If not - maybe acceptable, if there is no feeling of foul play. If someone with an acoustic guitar pretends to play an electric guitar solo and fakes all the emotional body movement too - that's ridiculous. But again, if I EXPECT someone to make fun of faking with backing tracks and the see the guitar solo Adam showed in the video, it's all right again. Again, it's all to do with context, no performance is bad in itself. Also, no amount of real instruments used is good in itself.
Let's all just accept what the musicians want to offer us and, as long as there's no really obvious faking, enjoy what we get. It makes life much easier.
You judge the talent of a singer by how they can do it in person, not with autotune, or 20 takes in the studio.
Same way with guitar, keys. If it's all a backing track, it makes it seem the producer played all the instruments in the studio and we get the "pleasure" of seeing the musicians move their hands and lips to a track.
@@noeloumard9106 I was watching some of their old concerts on UA-cam, and they definitely put in the energy for only 2 people
"Music isn't a sport" "Music isn't a competition"
Drum corps international would like to know your location
Guh
Beatboxing community would like to have a word with you
@@djevon4853 I don't know anything about dci I've never marched it or anything 👀
DCI is crazy you actually have to buy and pay for everything and the training hours are strenuous and rigorous. winter drumline in high school alone we didnt go home until like 7pm
imagine if the old timers thought corps nowadays use backing tracks
1:45 "yOu SmUG VsAuSE WAnNa-bE"
yikes! dat be sum self hate rite der
Not just wannabe Vsauce but ALSO bill wurth at 2:20
Not a fan of that skit tbh. It's a bit too much at this point lol
It's true, lets be honest.
Very Contrapoints.
@@Altroante Yeah I did figure that people wouldn't like that kind of skit there so I wouldn't blame you for saying that. This reply was totally pointless I know.
I went to an open jam session at a bar once where I performed 3 of my own songs using sequenced tracks, with me singing and soloing. What was fun was on the last song, a drummer and guitarist joined me and took over playing the song when the sequenced tracks ended. Great jam!
I could have used all of your videos when I was in performance arts highschool. You are a better instructor than my highly dismissive and pretentious jazz instructor. I played bass and became extremely discouraged for a million reasons. But you make several points that clear up so much and unlike my formal teachers, you make me want to play music. Thank you, so much.
I use backing tracks to secretly play the licc over my own bassline
BASS
Also, Deadmau5 shows are 100% prerecorded, its about an experience of the whole show, not just the music.
And really, Deadmau5 is a genius and anyone denying that either doesn't know him or is lying
Yeah, He has openly said that he focuses more on visual experience than performing authentic live music. But atleast since the cube came out, he has real synths playing midi tracks to ableton live. So there is some sort of live music thing there but mostly its planned out on ableton and midi tracks for synths.
it makes a huge difference for me to feel the illusion that Deadmau5 or another DJ is "in control" of the session -- triggering sounds, reacting to the audience, being in the moment. a 100% preset playlist can achieve this illusion. but some (a lot?) of DJs fail at this. kind of interesting.
What show?
@@IndigoDesert6 If its a performance that the audience enjoys, more power to him, even if he's not actually playing. Its showbiz, not football.
😂😂😂 "There's a pub singer on the telly..." Got me everytime
You never cease to amaze me with these videos. As I've watched your channel over the years, you have really made some fundamental changes in how I think about music and life with your videos, and this is just another time that that has happened. I really want to thank you for bettering me as a person.
Lol would love to see Devin Townsend put on a concert where every instrument/ layer is played live... the band would be as big as the audience
Exactly dude has 30 tracks on vocals alone for one song lol. All his voice. Gotta create clones just for that.
@@crowing3886 Michael Jackson used to do that throughout the 1988 bad tour, where he would have the vocals backing track and the live background sing together to make it sound as one. he did this particularly with his voice, because performing the dance moves would take too much breath.
@@theshyguy1580 true, that's how backing should work as a enhancement, not a complete replacement.
Heard this argument and thought I'd share: Some concert goers attend shows to see musicians do things that other musicians can't. i.e. improv over difficult chord changes, sing high/low notes that are difficult to hit, or hear a favorite song performed in a new way. In this circumstance people aren't going to the concert to listen to the music, they're going to watch a performance. If the performance they paid to see isn't really happening why shouldn't they be upset? Imagine going to watch a play or musical and instead the theatre puts on the movie version of the show. This isn't what you wanted especially if you've already seen the movie.
Indeed people go to the theatre now and see just a TV programme of the real event!
I gotta say, I was on the anti-track side of the argument before I saw this video but the points you presented really convinced me.
Normally I'm already on your side before I see one of your videos, but in this case I wasn't, and it really opened me up to just how good you are at presenting a counter-argument.
Keep it up, your videos are so genuinely valuable!
Totally not paid btw
Why have a live video?
I think the most important thing to get across is to make sure the audience does not feel like they are being deceived.
Adam is finally waking up to his meme potential
I am proud
Mateusz Grzesiak we all are
Did Adam just use pre recorded lines to have an argument with himself?
I think it's a Knowing Better (youtuber) reference, though I may be wrong
That's cheating!
I can't believe we just watched a pre recorded video over the internet. I'm totally robbed of the authentic experience.
he does it all the time
@@MMM-rw6bl wait really? I definitely didn't know it at all
1:38 So Self-aware. I almost spit out my coffee. 👏
I've watched the Phantom of the Opera musical very recently, and discovered the last notes of the main theme, when the Phantom brings Christine to sing at the top of her vocal range, are pre-recorded. Considering they are the highest notes of the entire show, that the show itself plays twice a day and the lead singer has a substitute only twice a week... yeah, hitting a E6 twice a day almost every day can damage your vocal chords even with the best training. Pre-recording in this case is necessary to not destroy someone's ability to sing.
But I had to read this, because the pre-recording blends perfectly with the live performance and you can very well see Christine sing and even strain herself to reach the note, even if the actress isn't really reaching for it - she acts like she is and that's what makes it real. And she CAN reach that note, she just can't reach it so many times without side effects, like Yo-Yo Ma couldn't play strings without the instruments or even themselves being hindered by the cold.
IDK I felt like it was relevant to the discussion
Man I am SO glad black-and-white-telephone-filter-Adam is back
Bands like Tesseract play with some elements of backing tracks so they don’t require numerous members to play layered music live
It's pretty much the only way that they can perform their music, a lot of people seem to forget how difficult it is to ensemble more than 2 or 3 people on stage, specially for a touring band.
everyone plays backing track
even small bands have extra tracks and in ears with click tracks
Fabián Riquelme Yeah. It’s difficult. So why bother assembling more musicians. 🙄
Almost every progressive band does it.
You should see what Eluveitie pulls off live!
I think this simply boils down to why does an audience want to see a live performance?
Electronic music > dance with friends
Orchestra > See the culmination of combined synchronized efforts to achieve a certain sound > Be impressed
For one you're having a social experience, for another you are watching talented performances. If instead of an orchestra you had a backing track with one performer playing the triangle, it's not impressive so you lose the experience. It's "cheating" in the attempt to impress (why the audience is interested).
Same idea as a play if you showed scenes on a screen rather than act them out it becomes this "what's the point?" feeling.
That being said, plenty of audiences can be somewhere between these specific motivations or have entirely different motivations. I mean if triangle guy wants to do his thing he can, but *most* people wouldn't care even if it sounds great.
So long as you have an audience, do whatever you want
I agree, any musician can argue as to why they do this or that, but if the audience asked you, can you perform that/this now and you can't deliver without backtracking, the novelty is lost. Backtracking is good to supplement missing parts to make a complete music,(i.e. playing solo with drums backtrack) but when a musician relies on backtracking to play the music for him. It might not be cheating, but it is without a doubt a deception. It doesn't matter if he fooled 99% of the audience Or he can actually play the music, because in that moment, he was a fake fooling the audience it was him playing the music. Performing well in high risk scenarios is part of being a great musician.
It makes a difference to me whether the backing tracks were created by the performer(s). Music technology, like technology in general, is moving so fast our sensibilities and mores are still catching up. All in all, it's fuckin' wonderful.
Adam Neely vs. Nega-Neely
Nega Chin
neely'nt
thank you so much for this Scott pilgrim reference
OK from now on may everyone refer to you as "Smug Vsauce Wannabe"
There is a huge difference between adding effects or programmed voices to your live performance and syncing. And yes, I think even at big public events everything should be played live. Without the possibility to fail there is nothing special about a live performance. They could just play the CD then.
It also manipulates your perception of art and performance in general. Performances are not supposed to categorically go down flawlessly. The culture of miming musical performances devalues the actual live performances because you hold them to another standard. And last but not least events that have lip-synced live performances pretend to invest in great live performers and risk something going wrong while they actually play it safe.
@@mangolassi_. When some instruments are performed live, and others are not, it is not like a CD being played. For instance, I had a band where it was just me and a singer. I programmed drums, and performed the keyboards and basslines. I prerecorded those things, and had them on a tape while I played guitar over top of them. I enjoy playing live. And my singer and I both were still performing. Over time, I added a guitarist to take over and I started playing bass, thus reducing the amount of taped instruments. And right before we broke up, we got a drummer and decided to cut the keyboards down to one song that the singer could play them on live, and went fully live. That was always my preferred goal. But until I found the necessary components who wanted to be in the type of band I had, I could not attain that. And I don't want to give up playing live simply because you don't think I should. Now, I don't think full bands should perform to backing tracks to flesh out their sound, or to provide backing vocals, or something. A drummer can always start a drumloop or something and play over that in the monitors, sure, but there really are limits in my mind.
recently i saw a live performance of a group of 5 singers , one of the singers couldn't go to health reasons and they played his parts with a narrower EQ and reverb among other fx, making clear that he was far away but still there in someway it was an awesome way of handling the situation
hey wanabe vsauce, adam here
is music a sport?
*vsauce theme starts*
except the vsauce theme is remixed into the lick
I want the _real authentic experience_ not a backtrack of Vsauce's music played virtually through my mobile screwn
Space violin - > obama is an alien - > area 51 confirmed
I've seen enough on this planet to know that somebody would have actually gone through that mental process.
Carbon fibre looks more like crocodile skin than an aerospace material, thus:
croc violin -> obama is a reptilian
Carbon fibre is black -> you can fill in the rest
Some dumb nigga would've actually retroactively thought something like that and used it as a conspiracy. It already happens now
I really need to listen to this Sungazer's live performance. Pretty pleeease.
I just realized I been binge watching your videos for t least 6 hours... I can't believe it's already 8 in the morning.
One thing I've taken away from this experience is this: Watching you is like watching Jeopardy.... There is a lot of information being received while learning nothing ;D
The only thing I can REALLY remember is how you got too high once...... a shitty singer in a wedding ruined an elton john song, and playing out in the street is called busking..... That busking thing I won't forget. At least I've expanded my vocabulary!!! Thank you Adam!
Adam's videos would be a lot shorter if he responded to every criticism with "Well, that's just your opinion man".
Well that’s just like, your opinion man
I appreciate this so much
Much shorter but also much less informative
Mozart would have creamed his pantaloons for backing tracks
Could you imagine if that dude had a DAW?
@@joez6235 he would need a pc with 128 gigs of ram and double server grade xeon cpu
Joe Z how can you possibly know this
@@joez6235 ahahaha yeah totes bro ive pondered about that before 👍
@@user-cw9lf3gl6x lolol ...Mozart would have used Linux i reckon, so 32 gb max Id say :P
"You smug Vsauce wannabe" - OMG, you made my day, that is so funny...
Lets not forget, Queen had to do this for their live performances of Bohemian Rasphody, after all, that operatic section just can't be played entirely live. It was recorded with 108 overdubs. So for that section, they actually leave the stage and let the tape play.
I've been a big fan of The Who for over a decade and have never seen anyone complain about their use of tape tracks for "Baba O'Riley" and "Won't Get Fooled Again." I've also been a fan of They Might Be Giants for longer, and I think I remember people upset when they switched from backing tracks to a live band.
That's pretty hilarious. To be fair, TMBG's sound changed a LOT when they switched over to a live band.
Not Constant eh? Nope, Elle.
Yes, i was going to comment about The Who
And you're right, those two songs is always played with backing track but people still waiting them to doing it in every concert
"There's a PUB singer..." LOL
This reminded me of the Stop Making Sense concert video by Talking Heads. On the song "Psycho Killer", David Byrne starts by saying "Hi, I've got a tape I wanna play" and setting down a boombox which he presses play on, and at the same time a TR-808 drum machine (located offstage) starts playing. At the time when the video was made it would have been relatively rare to see a live band playing along to a drum machine except in a "pub singer" type environment - so the boombox fulfills a similar purpose to the reel-to-reel in the video - to make the "backing track" more acceptable to the audience. Before I saw your video I never really understood why he did that, but this gives it some context I needed. Thanks for making this! It gave me a lot to think about.
Rush has been doing stuff like this to fill out their live performance for decades. They triggered midi sequences and samples during the live performance, which is really like playing an extra instrument.
I thoroughly enjoyed this video. Thank you, smug Vsauce wannabe
Its definitely cheating, it robs me of the experience of the possibility of making fun the professional musician when they make mistakes while playing live. I want my money back!
Yee Sen Chai 😂😂😂
It's actually not a bad point. With a true live performance there's an element of risk - I guess it doesn't make a difference if you don't know it's fake beforehand, though.
@@stoferb876 That isn't the same risk though. A musician failing is human and dramatic, where as a machine failure is more annoying and blameable.
I like it when performances aren't perfect. Small mistakes add a certain charm.
@@KeithPickeringGuy When playing to a track, there is also a huge risk of screwing it, so....
Btw all those background mini musical pieces, such as the one at 2:02, are super cool. They work really well with the narrative.
Adam should collab with Adam more often. Really awesome content.
Buckethead plays to nothing but backing tracks, his shows are always awesome!
He spins nunchucks to a backing track.
Not the same as he doesn't have a pre recorded guitar track.
stimpson j cat its still "Playing with a backing track" which, according to music experts, is A NO NO no matter what the circumstance
Nah...
Using a solo virtuoso guitarist as an example is reaching pretty hard though
1:42 literally every one of Adam's fans the first time they saw one of his videos: 1:42
That acoustic electric guitar solo knocked my socks off. Total status move
Just wanted to drop this.
This channel is fire. I've been watching these videos for years and you always somehow come up with the best questions everybody has in such a objective way. Love your channel and will continue to do so!
In the early 80s I was in high school seeing concerts where synth sequencers were used ... and later full MIDI rigs with a number of clocked segments to songs - and none of it stopped the spontaneity or creativity or energy.
Several years ago we went to see Pat Metheny’s Orchestrion (TL;DR Metheny is the only live person of the 50+ instruments you hear - and see), and initially things were a little cold because there was not enough room for the music to breathe, it was just recreating what we knew from the album. But part of the show was the ability of Metheny to trigger and program live, and so suddenly manipulation of the ‘backing tracks’ was part of the show ... which was incredible.
Amazing you saw Orchestrion LIVE!! WOW!
I regularly have to play with a duo or trio without a drummer, because otherwise the band would be too expensive - that's a reality too, at least here in Germany. A bridal pair or a venue holder who wants a Top 40 often isn't willing to pay 3 or 4000€. So he sticks with 2000€ for three musicians, PA, light etc. The music, aside from guitar, keyboard/piano and of course the vocals, comes out of the OnSong app for my iPad. It's kind of frustrating, because I think we would be perfectly abled to perform the music completely live, but without these kind of gigs I 100% wouldn't be able to support my family and my career as a working musician.
€2000? where in Italy?
Just make sure you disclose it, and no one is deceived into paying for something they don't get.
You have it easy: the lack of drums clearly means you're using backing, so if people didn't like it, you'd be out of a job quickly. So clearly people are okay with tour mixed live/prerecorded experience, same as at a concert with only a singer.
@@BrunoNeureiter Germany
Bro this video is an absolute masterpiece!!!!
I absolutely love the waythat you play out the argumentative dialogue between the two dichotomies...reminds me of the same inner turmoil I deal with on a daily basis regarding every decision of even the smallest importance lol
Well done sir!!!
This is the first channel putting the answer in the thumbnail for the question from the title
When I hear an 808 I literally picture the numbers 808 in huge round pulsating green font. Why? 😩
Meth
Nigga what
For me it's a big black textureless 3d model of a kick drum suspended in cyberspace and pulsating with every hit
synesthesia
I think of sine wave that is so damn distorted it's actually square wave
An 808 kick drum looks like a 20 inch rimmed cadillac trunk shaking + rattling windows
I feel playing live without any sort of backtracking will make you a better musician because it teaches you a understanding of importance of skill. Also in a group/band you would be more flexible as musician which can help you play with others.
Playing along with other music will make you a better musician. Weather that music is played by a live person, or a recorded person doesn't matter at all. Playing with a live person certainly has its benefits. But playing with a backing track literally makes zero difference in your musical skill. Skill comes from practice alone. And some things simply cant be done live.
“All this machinery making modern music can still be open hearted. Not so foolish hearted it’s really just a question of your honesty. Yeah, your honesty. One likes to believe in the freedom of music, but glittering prizes and endless compromises shatter the illusion of integrity.”
I think you missed the most important critique of using a track. Live music is exciting because it's not going to sound exactly the same every time even if you want it to. Using a track eliminates that element and overall makes it more boring because now even the form is locked into place and every section is going to be exactly the same every single time. As a musician who has performed on cruise ships, I absolutely hated playing along with tracks nearly every show.
Edit: Even a looper is completely fine because it's going to vary subtly performance to performance, and the form also isn't completely locked. For me all of this has nothing to do with the visual aspect at all or being worried about "cheating." Tracks are COMPLETELY different from electronically enhancing your live sounds (singer volume, kick EQ etc)
2nd edit: You sort of covered this at the very end of the video but then didn't really refute the point and just went back to your points about cheating and lies.
Right, the skill / risk element.
You have control over what isn't on tape. If you have a drummer, keyboardist, guitarist and bassist live, and some synths and percussion on the backing track, it may lock the general chord progression and structure into place but everything else is fair game. The singer could just scat-sing the entire song. Part way through everyone could decide to do one of the verses in a faux reggae style. And of course, every solo is different!
And, with technology as it is, one can even make dynamic backing tracks. All it takes is another band member at the PC syncing everything together.
Tracks are a shortcut that are artistically inferior to just getting more live musicians to play the extra parts. It's an economic shortcut, not an artistic one. It is always more interesting to hear live interactions. I'm sorry but if you disagree with this you must not see live music very often or have any taste for improvisation (hint: great bands get away with small improvisations on every single part, at all times, not just the soloist.) Look at albums like Mark Guiliana's beat music, and maybe you'll see what I'm saying. Imagine that album played with one of the synth players taken away and replaced with a track. Sure, it still would work and sound good. But it's inferior.
Yes! I too think it's the stakes that matter. The fact that the whole band could mess up & stop, but one element would keep on playing, is what ruins that. It's like being in a theater production where one actor is a robot, or a holograph. Also, thanks for bringing up the looper. If they completely sampled someone's voice and someone had to play it out on keyboard, it'd still have that risk.
But what TheGerkuman said makes me think; there remains a level of possible improvisation…
Not if you're improvising over it.
I know people are saying long ass paragraphs but can you collab with Davie504
Bass battle 👍🏼
How would Adam collab with a meme channel?
@@Pvkasz Adam doesnt have any channel memes? At all? Are you sure? D E F G E C D
@@Pvkasz Maybe he can get #Davie504 to do some more musical stuff again.
Adam should teach him the L i C k
For me the main reason for seeing someone live is seeing the slightly imperfection of a live performance.
I already know the song in it's perfected studio version, but having a live performance brings variation, a entirely new experience, every performance is unique!
that's what i want to see, the raw unfiltered experience!
I need to see my idols be 100% in the moment, having fun, making mistakes. Just so i can remind myself that they are human and that what they do isn't impossible for me to achive!
If you don't get what i mean just watch a live performance of the band AJR, when they are on stage it looks like there isn't a thing in this world that could bring them more joy
Sungazer is legit one of my favourite bands of all time because it’s the perfect music to me cause people that like crazy math rock and complicated theory can love it but it also just sounds amazing even if you don’t care about theory at all and all the music is so extremely cool and interesting and groundbreaking
in conclusion: kinda
In conclusion:
Yos
In conclusion: Well yes, but actually no
On the Ed Sheeran loop pedal "Drama", I've started to notice that TV producers have started to have his pedals in shot when he's manipulating them, possibly removing the disconnect... if people know what pedals are
I think it's a good and important technique to clue people in, but i don't think people who are not intimately familiar with this style of performance are familiar with the loop pad/pedal as an instrument. And ultimately it does not fully remove the disconnect, it's just something that people, having been introduced to the instrument, have to internalise and get used to on their own time.
I was introduced to the looper by Reyn Owehand at one of his live performances decades ago and loved it IMMEDIATELY in spite of not seeing the pedal - my brain went like "wait, i understand how this works, he has a machine that allows him to play with his past self from 10-20 seconds ago by accumulating the sound electronically" and my brain also hallucinated a picture of him being in 4, 5 places on stage at the same time thanks to a wonderful fantastical soundscape, but... i understand how it would make someone surprised and angry rather than surprised and blissful.
People don’t know what pedals are.
@@kellanmurakami5340 people think overdrive and distortion is just the natural sound of an electric guitar.
Hi!, Greek here.
"akousmatikoi" (someone tried to write "Ακουσματικοί" using latin characters) is pronounced "akousmatikeé" and it's an adjective at it's plural form (so it refers to pythagoras students)
If I went to see king gizzard and the lizard wizard live and they played all of nonagon infinity none stop but it turns out they didn't do the transitions live, I may as well have got a cover band who can't play the instruments, but I still get the point, on the other token, if king gizzard played all of murder of the universe, hearing han-tyumis voice isn't that bad as it's basically impossible otherwise