The 44 Gear Rally machine. Gravel, or not?
Вставка
- Опубліковано 10 жов 2023
- Yoeleo link: tinyurl.com/ysfu4rxd
10% discount code is PEAKTORQUE - but check your geometry against a known frame first, most of the sizes are fine, however i cannot recommend the 58cm.
Thanks again, to all the Patrons.
Patreon.com/peaktorque
Thanks to Veloforte for feeding me! 20% off for all PT viewers using the code
PeakT-20 at tidd.ly/45uc9Db
PT Merch: peak-torque.com
15% off for Patrons
Control tyre (GP5000) - tidd.ly/3GEF512
Powermeter (Assioma) - tidd.ly/3Z98OXb
Reference powermeter (quarq) - tidd.ly/3WJx9Bn
Head unit:
amzn.to/3C5xMwQ - UK link
amzn.to/3G3sEKM - US link
105 Rim brake holy grail groupset bargain - tidd.ly/3BNlkSb - Наука та технологія
"It's a fucking gravel bike, it doesn't need to exist. Why shouldn't I be able to just make it stupid?" Best description of gravel I ever heard..... funniest, also.
Hope you enjoyed this build! I certainly did although frustrating at times. Yoeleo want to offer 10% off with the code PEAKTORQUE - however I recommend you check your geometry against a known gravel bike first. Most of the sizes are fine but personally I cannot recommend the 58. The reason for the 2x + classified should become clear in the classified review!
A lot of your complaints regarding toe overlap can be solved by being good at riding bikes.
@@cystenergy have a day off Karen
@@PeakTorque It's easy. Just unclip every time you have to turn the wheel. Sorted! ... lol
Gotta be real@@PeakTorque your content comes from a fixed mindset and results in your being forever salty about the little things.
Switch your perspective to a growth mindset and you will actually be happy in life.
As others have said, you are wanting a different bike to what you got. Go look at a Norco Search S1. Also, get good noob.
@@cystenergy wait. So you really think toe overlap on a extra large frame is ok? wow.
Such a cool story with your mum and Rothmans, awesome! I was brought up around forest and single venue airfield rallying, trackways etc and I’d love to be involved in that sort of thing one day. For now, bike are enough 🤣
Yep , I told Yoeleo about toe-overlap on G21 2 years ago on their 1st generation ,obviously not changed. They need lengthen top tube and/or fork rake.
Thanks for the info
Regarding the aero features (seatpost, cockpit): I don't think Yoleo did something wrong with their choices, it's just that you are looking for a more MTB-side gravel bike and they are providing a more road-side racey gravel bike
It does seem like most of the features are more all road, except for the tire clearance.
Outside of 1% of riders, no one is riding 40kph+ on a gravel bike, unless you are using your gravel bikes as a road bike. Aero is completely pointless and the option to put a dropper post would be far advantageous to all riders.
Exactly what i mentioned in the video 😊
@@echtogammutthe slower you are, the more time you save with aero gear. It's a smaller percentage of your time than a fast person but it's still more time.
I think the important thing is it looks cool, which sells more bikes, especially to the consumers who buy frames from these manufacturers. It would be really nice if these companies included (pluggable) downtube ports. They'd also have to do the same with the forks, or offer an external routing fork option.
Just throw on 150 mm cranks, move your cleats completely forward and off you go. Would also match the idea of having a Frankenbike 😅
changing cleat position will mess up your stroke but shorter cranks would probably work best as a solution
Re: toe overlap it's because a lot of Chinese brands just copy-paste their road bike design parameters to gravel ... steepening HTA (and slackening STA) on bigger frame sizes to make steering on a longer wheelbase snappier. I don't think FC is something they even think about - it's purely derivative. I still have about 20mm of toe overlap on my much longer FC XL Revolt though - big feet and mid foot cleats. It's liveable and after a while you work around it. On my single speed track bike I have something like 60mm of toe overlap ... that can be lethal if you're not concentrating / don't backpedal your foot out of the way when turning sharply in traffic.
To be honest, PT losing his mind about the toe overlap is hilarious, as someone who has always had toe overlap.
Haha. PT really think that 2020s bikes are made for actual riding. No. You suppose to get rid of excess money, make couple photo for insta and dump it to the garage. That's what those bikes are made for.
That's one amazing paint job! If you don't ride it much, at least it will make good wall art.
I have a 56cm surly midnight special and that has toe overlap with 650b wheels! There are many that say they don't notice it, but it will drive you mad if you try to climb some tight switch backs (have to time your pedaling and use loads of peak torque to get around corners). It means it not really suitable for gravel or bikepacking.
Exactly. It makes the bike so compromised. I don't know why so many people here seem to think it is allowable.
My 54cm Surly Straggler (almost identical frame geometry) has toe overlap with 32mm tires! Almost launched myself off a pedestrian bridge finding that one out. Never had toe overlap before. Thankfully I run it as a road bike and don't run into it too much. But it's a cyclocross bike that can fit up to 42mm tires. Makes no sense to me.
@@PeakTorqueThey live in Florida and have small feet 🤔
I get your frustration Peak, so sorry, hope you solve it soon. The Rothmans and Mom story is great, I love rally too. I'll get some Groupe B or Montecarlo theme on my next gravel bike! Cheers!
Toe overlap for a large sized bike is unforgivable. At least on smaller sizes you can go 650b which is proportionally sized vs. 56cm or 58cm on 700c.
Hey, question with regards to the integrated cables in the headset. You said it was difficult to preload, and everything bedded in after a short period of riding. I have seen headsets with plastic spacers (gf reinforced nylon, i think) often come loose, no matter how tight you preload them. What's your take on polymers as a load bearing material? Do you think it's generally fine, or does have to much give under compaction?
How would putting a short travel fork in the front of the bike? Would that slacken the headangle off enough and make the wheel base longer to stop the toe overlap?
Love your reviews 👍👏. Honest and clear
lol, gotta' admit that toe-overlap is fk'd up on what is essentially a dirt bike.
EXACTLY. Why so many comments saying it's normal and tolerate it? Clearly not sending it down anything slightly technical.
3x10 Shimano Deore Touring gives 671% with 48/36/26 and 11-40 :P
Super cool paint job and back story.
In terms of stack/reach, the XL TCR is in a small club of bikes long and low enough to actually suit me. Others which work are the H1 geo Treks, a few Canyons (some Ultimate CFs, some Aeroad generations), a thing called the Merlin Inferno (which I've got) , a thing called the Boardman SLS (the first generation disk brake model, at least, which is old enough that the brakes were post mount). I use 177.5mm cranks and mount my cleats as far back as possible, so I get toe overlap on most bikes which I _should_ fit on.
I used to vent my opinions of toe-overlap but stopped doing so since the usual response would be ”learn 2 ride n00b”. Nice to watch someone else sharing my beliefs. I still hate it tho and is very aware of geometry when checking for new frames. I even size the wheels down to 650b and shorten the cranks since I love really wide tires. Sensible manufacturers should have different forks for different sizes of a frame. Wouldn’t that perhaps fix Yoeleo’s problem with this frame? I guess (haven’t checked) they took a shortcut and use the same fork for all sizes?
That's the problem with this industry. Why would you tolerate such an inherent geometry issue? I haven't had it on any other bike from TT to DH and I've owned and ridden A LOT of bikes. The crazy thing is the front center is SHORTER than my TCR (a road race bike with a short wheelbase)!!!!
Well, obviously you can draft closer to your buddy now - because that is what you do on a monster gravelbike, right? 😅
@@PeakTorque I'm not sure the TCR is the best bike to draw the comparison against. A lot of racey road bikes have quite long top tubes to get that low and long position more readily. Having a look at geometry geeks I can see some closer numbers between the Yeoleo 58cm and certain CX bikes as well as some endurance/allroad bikes that are designed to fit a lot of inflexible and older riders- maybe this was a jumping off point for the frame design.
Toe overlap is a funny thing- it drives some people up the wall but for others it only takes a few rides for them to adapt and forget about it completely. I'm sorry to hear it's been such a sticking point on what should be a really special bike for you. There's people out there riding technical trails on track bikes and cx bikes- maybe if you give it more of a whirl you'll find a groove for it. Alternatively maybe you can find broader utility for it in a more traditional gravel setting rather than on the more mtb side.
Cheers for the thorough review.
Sir, What gear inner cables are you using? cheers, m
How was the habdlebar flex? Considering their one piece road bars
What kind of gear cable are you using?
For no toe overlap (and classified hub), Ridley Kanzo Adventure... Or if you don't mind skinny tyres Canyon Grail
Real cars, real roads real fast.
About galvanic corrosion with aluminium BB inserts in carbon frames: Is there any way to prevent this? Or is it just inevitably going to happen? I too have a carbon frame with a T47 BB insert.
I'm quite small (168cm) and only bike i have toe overlap is my track bike, but there it isn't problem at all.
Coincidentally 😁 my gravel (geometrically it's more CX) bike also have rally inspired paint scheme, but Martini (Lancia)
And i agree with you, you can ride really narly stuff on this kind of bike.. they have to update geometry on larger sizes
Would it be possible to fit an aftermarket fork ?
Can you get an eccentric / tilt headset to increase the rake and reduce the toe overlap?
I've been binge watching your vids. I reckon this is as emotional PT as you can get. Definitely not a gcn sponsored vid xD
how did you fit a double road crankset on the frame? I am using a 50/34t and it almost touches the frame. how can I fix this?
I get some overlap on my 56 cm road frame. Size 46 shoes, 25mm tires, 172.5mm cranks and cleats is back as far as its possible. Overall i sit quite good, but will probably go down to 155mm cranks when the ones I ordered is delivered (InfoCrank IC2).
Supposedly, aluminum inserts are often wrapped in fiberglass to galvanically isolate them from carbon fiber.
But if you can properly align a bottom bracket shell, why not press fit bearings? Thread in is just a wasteful compromise.
Anyone have advice on what to do with a headset that keeps coming loose? Every 200 miles I've got to retighten it. Does this normally mean the headset is faulty? Fork? Frame? My local bike shop hasn't been all that helpful. I've resorted to adding lock tight to the top cap bolt yesterday.
Send me a picture or two of the setup to peak torque at outlook dot com and we'll diagnose it
Would an Angleset be possible? Plus a bigger offset fork?
I just got my 3rd set of Yoeleo wheels (gravel, road and track) and their manufacturing is tip notch as always. Im surprised with the T47 BB, theyve been able to supply well made wheel and frames.
Always been frustrated with their short frames, going to sell my 58cm R12 cause i wasnt able to make it fit.
Congrats on the ridiculous overkill on the gear range, always wondered about this setup since i first heard of the classified hub. Like another bike i heard of with a rohloff rear hub on a pinion gearbox 😂
You need a canyon grail, they got the geometry better.
Slack-R makes offset headsets where you can change the angle by up to 1.7 degrees. I fitted one to and older mountain bike and dramatically improve the feel going down steep hills.
It wouldn't work here. With the integrated headset and all the cables
Would using shorter cranks solve your toe overlap issue?
No. Foot overlap is about 45mm. 5mm ain't gonna change that!
Cool bike. Classifieds hub is interesting, but I would go mullet 1x12 with it (say 10-50 cassette with a 44-46 (?) On a gravel bike for what I ride on my weak legs.
Could not help to notice the corrosion on the front TQ 180 adapter's bolt...mine has the same 😢
I have toe overlap with 700x45c on my 56cm trek checkpoint...only bike I've ever experienced it.
There are 2 gravel bike types: 1. aero and narrow tire for compact gravel (like Kanzo Fast) and 2. slacker headtube, wide clearance, heavy duty frame for impacts and cargo mounts.
What I see in this video is not an in-between, but a frankenstein of both types: race geometry (steep headtube = toe overlap) and aero cockpit, while it has mounting points and wide tire clearance.
I can't think of any scenario that this bike would fit in, but I would either 1. run 650b+700c to relax the angles and install a riser handlebar or 2. go narrow gravel tires and use it for long distance bikepacking. In fact, I would sell this bike. Never gives me a good feeling.
What? I thought toe overlap is a normal thing that you just have to learn to live with. I'm 183cm tall and I have more toe overlap than that on all of my drop bar bikes. My only bike that doesn't have any is 150mm travel full sus that's about two sizes too big for me.
Never had it on any bike
sick color scheme!
They struggle to find a 6'4" test rider in the devel phase.... 😂
I'd look into picking up another fork from Enve or Whiskey with a larger fork offset -
though IDK how possible that is with a fully internal routed bike - that's a big OOF
My Aspero5 has toe overlap. It's my favorite bike.
I have the same problem on my Carbonda CFR 686 in 56cms, guess they dont think much about bike geometry over 54cms frames.
You need to try a Carbonda 696 gravel frame. Probably won't have the toe overlap (i don't with my 58cm at 6'2"and cleats slammed all the way back), standard 27.2 round post, external cables and can fit 29x2.1 or 650b x 2.35. You can also get the custom paint!
Also, at your height, consider getting a 60cm
The 707 offers even more progressive geometry. I really enjoy mine for both fast riding and bikepacking. No toe overlap with 50mm tyres and sz 45 shoes.
I ride a 58 Trek Boone for road and gravel and have a lot of toe overlap with road and gravel tires on.
Seems weird that the sizing chart on Yoeleo's site doesn't include the front center and wheelbase measurements like they do for their other bikes. Have you measured the front center to see what it is?
The problem is with your dura-ace drivetrain. GRX cranks are 6mm wider, GRX pedals give you another 5mm width. SRAM Road Wide is of the similar concept.
Minor toe overlap on my Merida Scultura S/M(52cm) frame too. Friend has the same bike and problem. ~175cm tall. Not as bad as seen in this video though. And as you said, not as much of an issue on the road.
Such a shame, would be great to have many good direct to consumer options out of china to try make the market more competitive.
Toe overlap is something I can’t avoid. I’m just 177cms tall but my shoe size is UK 12 (47).
How do you like your shoes? I would certainly like your opinion on theses. Maybe what made you choose them over another model or brand.
Good video on the bike as well
The rx8 are super long and narrow for the size. The upper has separated from the sole in a few places but I've used them for about 8k so far this year.
i have the rx8 as well. great shoe, but as PT mentioned definitely get a size up. i'm a 44 in my nike's but 45 in my RX8s
Unfortunately some frames have the same problem, I have TIME 2023 road bike (size S = 51-52cm) and noticed that sometimes I can touch the front tire with the nose on my shoe, however I never encounter this problem while cycling on the road, only when I stopped and tried to turn the front wheel having foot towards the tire. I have 170mm Rotor crank arms.
Yeh but this is an OFF ROAD bike. If you are aware of that side, normally the front end is much much longer for stability.
I get toe overlap on my 61cm Carbonda 696 with a 42mm front tyre. Doesn't help I run my cleats all the way back, but still.
Thank you for the engineering rant-infused review! Quite refreshing.
Do you think it could be discussed with Yoeleo to release a different fork (bigger rake, maybe some offset) to eliminate toe overlap? Maybe fome suggestions for different forks that would help resolve the issue?
cheers!
I think they're going to sort the issues for the next one!
Watched again and i think i have a solution. Flat pedals and running shoes. I have a pair of Brooks beasts for everyday riding. And a pair of Hokas for when i want to go fast. Hokas are stiff as a board! Please try it, that bike is AWESOME!!!!!
The second you mentioned toe-overlap I thought that the steering angle looked a bit steep - even from my computer monitor sitting in my office.
For me the toe overlap was the most annoying thing after switching from MTB bikes. I had to re-learn how to ride to avoid catching the toe with the tyre (but it still happens from time to time, even after switching to shorter cranks). I've noticed that you still have some spacers under the stem. If it was an aluminium frame, you could slacken the head angle with an external bottom headset cup (obviously with all the other consequences like raising the bb), but I'm sure you know that. Not sure how high it should be in your case, though. But it's carbon frame with IS headset, so afaik that's not possible. Perhaps adding some extra height to lower bearing crown race would do? But it probably would need to be massive.
Well I'm not prepared to deal with it, honestly. I'm just going to ride my hardtail because it doesn't have limits on technical trails. This is slow on road, and impossible on tech. So the type of terrain where i can comfortably ride is barely available here (wide, non technical smooth gravel roads).
Would changing to 27.5 do anything to alleviate the issue?
@@jackmcnaughton360 For me it would, after switching to 165 cranks it is only around 10 mm of overlap (little bit more for winter shoes). I've already considered this solution, but there are many cons. The most important ones are the cost of new wheels and the limited choice of gravel tyres. And the smaller wheels will bounce a little bit more in rough terrain. There are not too many real gravel roads where I live, for me it's rather riding on forest roads with roots and stones. If there is some gravel, it's more like stones the size of walnuts 🙂
I have 181cm and even on properly sized HT (2019 Cannondale Trail 4 in LG) I have a toe overlap. Not to mention road or gravel bikes.
So what are you going to do with the bike? Just keep the road wheels on it and use it as a comfortable road bike?
Could Lauf fork solve issue for you?
Hardtails and gravel bikes are still two different worlds...
The first time I rode my new gravel bike I was like: yep MTB is much more fun xD
You could try a different fork with more rake to fix the toe overlap.
But I'm not sure about the handling
bummer. so frustrating dude, especially with all the effort and backstory. I'd be so pissed off! love the vids.
Nice to aee Yoeleo putting themselves out there for scrutiny. Ive got two of their wheels and really like them. My experience with them is they are straight up, i really think theyll take what you say and improve their product. Was a very useful video. When is GCN bringing you in as a contractor for bike reviews?😅
Yeh the wheels are solid.
I’m 6’4” and I’ve never NOT had toe overlap. What am I missing out on?
Same, 186cm, and I've never had the problem
😂😂😂
i have a yoeleo r11 in a 58 and have the same problem with the toe overlap
They call it a 59 for some bizarre reason. Also have an R11, they have a pretty short wheelbase and steep head angle which makes them pretty snappy, took me a little time to get use to it but I love it. 6'3 and size 11s and get a bit of toe touching but on a road bike you very rarely turn the bars past 10 degrees each way. Only time I may notice it catch is if snaking up a 25% + climb but your only going 4 mph anyway. I also have my cleats slammed as far back as they will go on the shoes and a 32c front tyre.
Oh man, what a bummer. Such a nice bike with such a crazy gear ratio and now this. I have toe overlap on almost all of my road and triathlon bikes. But I'm only 1.74m tall and wear a shoe size of EU45. So unfortunately I am used to it, but it is still annoying on 180° turns. But I've even had road bikes where it worked. It is crazy that this has not been taken into account in an off-road bike, especially in such a large frame size. Killer. It's really bad because the weight distribution is already unfavorable. Of course there are some CX frames that are also very, very "race-like", so short and agile. Oh man. Almost unrideable off-road, at least very frustrating and not much fun.
I get toe overlap on all my road bikes and my gravel bikes, riding 56cm frames at 183cm tall, however I do have size 45/46 shoes (Dont know what that is in UK sizing) so maybe thats why
Same here. 184cm and 46 shoes and I got toe overlap with my TREK Emonda size 56. Had it on all my road bikes.
Same issue here, but I’m only a 42. TBH I only remember a single ride where is was an issue. If I’m turning hard, my foot will be dropped into the corner at the 6 o’clock position anyway, we’ll away from the wheel.
Maybe a fork with a lot of rake would chill that thing out.
Cool story about your mom. The bike just doesn't scream Rothmans livery from a distance though. Maybe if it had more blue on the bottom or the blue stripes were thicker. I have a 58cm Space Horse and the toe overlap is the same. It's only going to be for straight levee riding.
I spent some time on bike insights when I was speccing a new road build last year and I briefly considered Yoeleo but the toe overlap seems to be a theme with them. Mind you, I'm taller than you
Maybe you don't wanna hear it but I feel like my Canyon Grizl has non of these problems. And you can fit 2.1" tires on it, its incredibly stable at higher speeds and I have 0 issues with the pressfit bb (surprisingly)
Exactly my point. These problems are not normal or acceptable.
I'm still a SRAM DualDrive fan with 3 internal gears and 8 external standard gears (HG hub)
PT you trendy stylista 😉 another great vid
I had an escort rally pack 2 litre as my first car👍.. i wouldn't worry about that bonded in BB as I've had a few frames ex China with BB68 and no issues. You probably need the 60? My diverge is similar regarding a steep head andbget very close to overlap on a 58cm.
I guess your road cranks you put on the grave bike are reasonably long? Maybe shorter cranks would help with the toe over lap. Would also give you more ground clearance. But I get the issue regarding thee geometry being very short for off road.
172.5mm. even 20mm shorter would not help. And no one makes 152.5mm cranks
6' tall; 45 shoe size; Trek Crockett 58cm and Litespeed Watia L (57cm), no toe overlap, both 700c; I set cleat to the center of the ball of my foot
think that frame is pretty expensive if you look onto the complaints. Think Carbonda/ Flybike has a way better price-performance, but the don't do any marketing so basically that's the point where yoeleo adds some pounds.
I’m just over 6’1”, and I have a size 58 2021 Specialized Roubaix. It has some pretty bad toe overlap, as well. It tend to only happen on very tight turns, which I only really encounter when turning around on a road. But it always catches me off-guard. No way I’d want that to happen off-road.
FWIW-I am 6’ and on 56 G21 the only way I can get overlap in my 44 size shoes is if I mount the cleats 5 cm behind the heel 😂
All these Chinese bike companies seem to be ignoring us tall people. The small geometry that these companies tend to have is basically what kept me from trying out a Chinese carbon frame
I think the problem is that these companies are in Xiamen, Guangzhou, etc. If they were in the North there would be loads of tall Chinese people to test.
The easiest way to keep prices down is sticking to sizes the majority needs. It makes sense as they also don't have great bikes for ultra short people either
But they make a 58, which is generally for 6’2” ish+ people. They just fucked the geometry for everyone.
Chabuduo ain't good enough. BTW my neighbour has a new Polygon Path gravel bike in medium. Exact same issue and he's not a big fella. Unfekinbelievebul. Cheers for the non-shilling. Hope to see a lot more on the freewheel / hub shifter soon.
Chabuduo is how they do everything.
great rant.....
Gutted about the toe overlap mate. Would a shorter crank help?
Considering you have 26 million gears to choose from.
Oh diddums, welcome to the toe-overlap life. You're a short king like the rest of us now
I would just go back to my hardtail if that's the norm.
Mama PT ❤
Not related to this video. Why do all modern aero bikes (Spec., Cann., BMC) have a big gap between the front wheel and the down tube? I always thought there is a big aero penalty on that. Especially for being on the front of the bike.
put a piece of tape on the end part of the tool to remove/install the BB, it won't scuff the paint
Its not the tool that scuffs it, its the bb itself!
oh I see... haven't got this issue on my end, I use grease thus it glides on the paint... thank you for tue great content!!
I am 1.94, shoe size 46. I have toe overlap on pretty much every cx bike I have ever ridden. With gravelbikes I would say at least 80% of them...
I'm 192, EU47, only one bike in my entire life has had toe overlap, and that was a ~2009 hybrid, back when the biggest frame was ~56cm with 140mm stem.
I'm 1.92 with EU46 shoes and used to have the same problem with my old CX bike. Now I have a Giant TCX in an L size, and there is zero toe overlap. Even when setting it up for gravel with 42mm tires there is no overlap, and the difference in confidence it gives you when pedaling through tight turns is amazing.
Toe overlap - haha. Yolo indeed.
Oh well, that's trashed them ! It's good to give people the facts, and the makers should learn from your input.
“Have they not sold any 58?” I think the answer is “yes”
Asian people prefer short wheelbase because they perceive it as lighter and more convenient heaving it up a flight of stairs to their flats.
Building a gravel bike for the "technical stuff" but putting a dura ace rear derailieur on it: chaindrops incoming
Not a single chai drop yet! Moved the cage to the highest spring tension position and that's definitely helped.
What a shame 😩 looks incredible though!
Put a set of flat mtb pedals on it and wait for a new fork?
Shorter cranks?
5mm wouldn't help much
Close yet so far, kind of typical for the bike industry 😂😂
That's a quirky build! A gravel bike with steep road geometry. Pedal spacers and an aftermarket fork probably wouldn't be enough. Modified shoes with clown- like cleat forward position too might. With the crazy ratios it has, you might not sprain your Achilles!