Thank you for watching! In case you wanted a bit of behind the scenes insight on the video, originally this was supposed to be a pretty short 7 minute video without any of the extra voice acting. The more I wrote the script however, the more I realized how much the anime left out in regards to Shirou's characterization. That being said I still left out a substantial amount of what makes Shirou a fascinating character but I wanted to keep the video more focused as opposed to a full blown character analysis. If you have any questions about the video or about Fate in general, please let me know and I'll get back to you as soon as I can! One more thing, I dunno why I said "Honnoji Temple" I was supposed to say "Ryoudou Temple" just a weird mistake on my part.
Most of what you've said is actually in the adaptation just implied through visuals barring "I don't want to burden him". For example, when Archer Calabolg'd Caster ufotable intentionally slow-motioned and framed it at Shirou's perspective with an accompanying "That's". Then the Caster dialogue you mentioned in this video happens. When Saber and Shirou was trying to escape from Ryuudou Temple, Shirou's eyes were glued to Archer vs. Assassin fight. The "It's rare to hear speak ill of someone" and the comment about Archer's technique happens in the after credits. Saber being bitter about Shirou copying Archer's techniques happens the next episode. The point of the date scene can already be surmised from the dialogues by Tohsaka to Shirou in the previous episode. The audience is reminded again when Rin said "You're back to normal. I'm glad." after a snarky comment from Shirou. Upon realizing this, Shirou asked Rin why she slept over and then thanked her. At the bus on the way home, Rin asked "Did you have fun". Shirou then answered : "Well, I haven't goofed around like that for a long time" but his tone and facial expressions are pretty telling. Rin then said "Look, if you had fun just say so." and telling him he was rude. Shirou denies this but Rin said: "You're subconsciously slamming on the brakes." followed by her commenting to let go whatever happened in the past. Cut to Shirou's facial expression. This then became a build up to the Taiganapping.
Shirou copying Archer's techniques doesn't get across the internal conflict Shirou has about being infatuated with someone he is both hates yet respects because he sees himself in him. While those scenes do illustrate that Shirou is mentally conflicted it doesn't quite get across what Shirou is feeling and why. The implication is there but it was difficult for many viewers to truly empathize with him because they couldn't get a full handle on what his deal was.
I thought the after credits already gives this internal conflict. Saber: Well, it's rare for you to speak ill of someone. But you aren't angry at Archer for attacking you." Once Saber starts complimenting Archer, Shirou flashbacks to Archer vs. Assassin in which his facial expression says he can't deny what Saber said but suddenly made snarky comment about Archer's sword skill saying he failed to kill Shirou even from behind. Next scene Shirou reflects about his mistakes that night and said he can't lose to Archer the bastard after hearing what he said during the Caster convo. Even back in episode 6 during the discussion about Servants and tools, you get dialogues like "Well..", "Regrets" and listen how Shirou's JP VA applied the tone. Also observe the"All in the name of seeking the grail" scene which had Shirou's facial expression downcast.This conversation with Archer clearly affected the next scene when Taiga says: "Saber-chan was really mad at you" in a joking manner then Shirou says "I bet..." in a serious tone glancing sideways downward. Taiga then took a note of this (notice the pause and facial expression) so she instead delivered a good news about Mitsuzuri ( her tone was serious for once) to change the mood.
Again, what you describe is the anime simply implying but never fully fleshing out these concepts in any sort of detail. At most the audience can gather in a vague sense that these concepts are present, but because they aren't conveyed properly they're difficult to be latched on to and properly understood. This then leads to the audience finding it difficult to empathize with Shirou because at best they may only have a vague interpretation of his inner conflicts.
I can't speak for others but I thought it's pretty clear by episode 16, 19, 20, 21 what Shirou and Archer's issues are. I'm a bit adamant about this topic cuz I think this is a good thing especially in a visual medium. I see this as an improvement over their Fate Zero adaptation of being too direct when it comes to dialogues. You aren't directly told about stuff but rather it's up to the audience to put the pieces together provided that the narrative culminates it to something which are the episodes I mentioned.
@@rajder656 i know, the idea just occurred to me and i explained it for no apparent reason, do you really think i wouldn't know that it was a joke nor that shiro wants to kill himself after watching most fate series??!
I think Shirou's feelings about Archer are pretty well summed up with the infamous line: "Just because you're correct doesn't mean you're right!" He agrees with Archer objectively, and accepts the truth to his methods, but he cannot morally accept Archer's ethics.
@@scurreith3667 it's the same as "People die when they are killed." he means that a person, _humans_ are dead once they're "dead". they dont get back up, they dont regenerate, they dont show any level of "life" or even "animation". The dead are meant to stay dead. if it gets back up after you've "killed" it? It cant be human. Humanoid, human-like, even human tempered and mannered, yes, but clearly not your bog-standard human.
@@Xenmaru00 In context it also means that he shouldn't rely on Avalon to survive his reckless stunts, 'when you die there's no coming back from that as it should be'. That he should take care of himself more and live
That line wasn't translated right, though didn't exist in the VN anyways. But FYI, in Japanese Anime Shirou said "Your correctness is not the correctness I need". (Which quite honest is just as blend and unconvincing). Originally in the VN, it wasn't a question about morals, but a clash when faced the fact that whether his emotions were genuine, or him simply imitating Kiritsugu as his way to cope with hopelessness. Shirou wasn't trying to imply he is correct, or that his feels were real (unlike the anime Shirou which is implying his feelings are real). VN Shirou stood back up because he realized and was fully embraced the fact that his emotions are indeed fake, but is okay with being just a tool, because even if the ideal didn't come from his feelings, he believed in Kiritsugu, and the ideal he tries to protect is beautiful, even if it's not his. Even if may be hypocrisy, and even if he himself condemns it in the end, it's the action itself that is the most important. This is the central theme of the route (which the anime completely misunderstood), and why the author sets up a scenario for Shirou to convincingly defeat Gilgamesh in the VN after delivering the line *"there is no rule that an imitation cannot defeat the original."* Answer was literally the climax of the route, and Gilgamesh's fight is the _application of its theme._ UBW is probably the worst adaptation done by ufotables, right up there with Oblivion Recorder. Coincidentally, they have the same director.
@@SoysauceML I just watched UBW like a day or two ago, and it was my first enterance into the Fate series, and having planned on playing the VN, this was actually incredibly helpful. It confused me so much why Shirou would be ok with becoming Archer eventually despite seeing how it IS the reason his ideals become distorted (in that it is the act of achieving those ideals that crushes the one holding them in the first place), and then he somehow beats the STRONGEST FUCKING SERVENT EVER, but the UBW route through this lens make so so much more sense. I haven't seen any other fate, so any recs or other explanations as awesome as this one that I should see?
No the original shirou never took a similar path to emiya, refused alaya, and met saber in Avalon after ascending the throne. Unlock all path and possibility gives you that hidden ending in fate/stay night vn
@@taipao6661 that’s Fate Shirou. The absolutely first ever/original Shirou did not bond with Saber, mourns the death of Ilya hella, and forms a contract with Alaya. Archer Shirou came before any of the Shirous in the VN
@@DanielSantosAnalysis *The only times Shirou cried in Fate, are in the bridge scene with saber, anything involving Illya in HF...and Saber Alter saying that shirou is a bad cook*
"While shirou understands that what Archer's saying is _correct..._ " *Me:* _Say the thing!_ "That doesn't necessarily mean that..." *Me:* *_Yeeees!_* " _...What archer says should be completely trusted_ " *Me:* goddammit
i think you want to say "While shirou understands that what Archer's saying is correct That doesn't necessarily mean that What archer says should be *Right* " and that s what i thinking when Daniel saidd that
One important thing to keep in mind about Shirou is that he completely lost his identity during the Fuyuki fire. Not only did he forget his original name and everything about his background, his entire personality, values and dreams were scorched down to a blank slate. In his own memories of the fire, he describes himself almost as if from the outside, walking aimlessly through the flames without a goal in mind aside from taking the next step, until he just physically can’t anymore and collapses. Meanwhile, Kiritsugu during the Fuyuki fire had also lost everything - not only had he, within his mind, cast aside all his loved ones for the sake of his “mission,” he was now witnessing the failure of epic proportions said mission had turned into. He was incoherent, searching through the ruins desperately to try and find absolutely anything he could do or anyone he could save to redeem himself to any extent. And he found Shirou. At that moment, Kiritsugu was genuinely happy, from the bottom of his heart. The knowledge that he had managed to save anyone at all from the disaster was salvation itself - he probably would have killed himself without that. And that happiness was the first thing Shirou, in his new identity as a blank slate, latched onto, and the only thing he registered as a positive emotion in that hellscape. From that day onward, for Shirou, the deal was done: the prime value in his mind now was saving / helping people = good feeling. In other words, saving and helping people would from then on be the only thing Shirou derives any positive emotional feedback from. Most crucially, Shirou never recovered from this until FSN: he never rebuilt a “normal” emotional frame of reference for things and events, and always had extreme difficulty generating genuine positive (or negative) feedback from things that would normally trigger it. The UBW anime highlights this when Mitsuzuri points out that she’s never seen Shirou really smile - in actual fact, almost nobody has, because Shirou is almost never happy. Sure, he can enjoy things superficially, but not on any level deeper than “this is nice.” Even things he excels at and spent years on, like archery, he gives up without a second thought when simply asked to and doesn’t think back on with regret, resentment or any emotion at all. He’s also almost never unhappy. He doesn’t react at all when he’s being hurt, insulted or otherwise abused, for instance by Shinji - and I don’t mean he restrains himself very well, the abuse just doesn’t register as any kind of emotional stimulus he should respond to to any extent. Shirou simply does not feel anything about almost anything that concerns him directly. The only thing he feels good about is helping people. The core thing to understand here is that this is not a matter of moral fiber. Shirou is not a good person - if anything he’s deeply selfish. Shirou is clinically insane. He has a completely externalized set of priorities. He doesn’t decide anything based on what it means to himself, only based on whether or not it helps other people. He doesn’t even value his own life at all except insofar as it can be used to benefit others. And it freaks people out a lot when they realize this: Rin is the obvious and explicit example in UBW, but Shinji, for instance, was once a really good friend to Shirou, only to eventually grow genuinely disturbed by how little Shirou valued himself and put distance between them because of it. So essentially, the thing to remember is that Shirou wants to save everyone because saving everyone is the only thing he derives happiness and self-worth from, and his entire value system and worldview is based on that. Asking Shirou to not help, to not fight, to not risk his life for other people, is akin to asking the average person to walk off a cliff.
He does get better in the different FSN routes though, yes? I'm a bit confused, but from what I gather, your comment is about Shirou as he was before the war. In the Fate ending, he gets the all-consuming love for Saber to bind him to something different. In UBW, he gets a reality check from Archer, and an anchor to that reality in the form of Rin. And in HW he has his core motivation slightly altered when he decides to put Sakura ahead of the rest of the world. Also, I don't think clincally insane is the best way to describe him. That is a legal term ascribed to people who can't distinguish fantasy from reality. Shirou has very different motivations and emotional stimulae than other people, but he can clearly tell what is real and what isn't.
That’s why he’s so similar yet at the same time completely different from Kotomine Kirei, who only gets emotional stimuli from other people’s suffering
@@96ace96 yes you are right, i just use ‘clinically insane’ word because i haven't word about it. Heaven's feel in start only transferred her dream into sakura's happiness but he changes lot in heaven's feel. He can't help sakura to destroy world. Sakura's happiness is more important for him but it doesn't mean he totally disgrace. He also wants to protect fuyuki also because they can't live without world. He wants to protect sakura from her evil. His change can also be noticed during the fight of ‘nine lives blade works’. He promise berserker to protect illya also. He also didn't kill rin even though she tries to kill sakura. Shirou only protect her.
@@96ace96 yes he can easily tell what is wrong or right but during situations like someone is in danger. He completely lost his composure and logic and jumps to save that someone. The best example is when rin asks her why he tries to save illya. He gove the answer that he didn't know anything about reason. It is actually a big conversation in visual novel not like anime. Kirei is very similar to shirou. He also know what is right and wrong. He wants to become ‘good’ person but he can't able to become like this. They both tries to understand their existence. Fate shirou developed as a person. His ideology didn't change but his personality and his attachment toward his past also changed. Ubw's shirou's development is actually quite big.
@@96ace96 Shirou of ubw understand that he's dream is not childish. It is just like we human think a utopian world where everyone can live happily but it is impossible. It doesn't mean we started to disregard this idea because it is not possible. We always try to make world like utopia even though we failed. It force us to improve and develop better world to live. It causes the best world possible to live. That's why shirou still follow it. Archer forget that due to his killings. He was able to make a better world for humankind. He will not succeed properly but he can save save most people possible. In ubw, he realize the true nature of his personality that he just try to become hero to copy that smile on kiritsugu. He is just a hollow like kirei who get pleasure by making other happy. He has not any morality. His morality is just made by his dream. But he wants to change that he wants to become hero so that he can create a better world for humans or undo the hell like that fire 10 years ago, not for some selfish needs. He accepts his personality but also create a goal in his mind that ‛he will create a situation where most of the people will be saved’, which is before only present for feeding his psychological need. That's the big picture that Archer lost. He was too fixated on the people he had to kill, he lost sight of his original goal. He pursued it because it found it beautiful to make everyone happy. It is not wrong to follow his dream if it has beautiful conclusion. Yes, he kill many people but he was able to make a better world for whole humanity. It is the development of shirou over archer that the ideal is not wrong, and that Archer has lost sight of the big picture (because fundamentally Emiya Shirou can only feel happiness by making other people happy, a fate where he saves the many by killing the few is tragic for him), in pursuing the borrowed ideal, he was able to save a lot of people. His work as a counter guardian saves millions, when CG are deployed, that means they have to deal with event that will cause massive catastrophe. Most of the time its human, because human are idiots. That's the tragedy of EMIYA. He has forgotten the reason why he pursued the ideal in the first place, and his conflict with his past self made him remember. From the start he was aware of the ideal's flaw, but as long as he finds the conclusion beautiful, there's nothing wrong with pursuing it. Nothing is perfect, and sometimes you have to give up your dream for something more important. But it doesn't mean that it is wrong. The improvement Shirou made over Archer is toning down his suicidal tendency, he's going to try his best, but he's not going to sign away his afterlife willy nilly like Archer foolishly did. Because of his previous nature, he actually never try to save someone but only feed his psychological need by showing that he help someone. Therefore, he only tries his best to save everyone. He will never regret for anyone's death. He defines justice as everyone should have the opportunity to be happy. He will try to save everyone. He will try to create a opportunity. So that he can save everyone. But if he fails to save everyone. He will not regret for it. He always try to save everyone even in extreme case. If he can't save everyone. He tries to create a situation where he can save everyone. On the other hand Archer and kiritsugu tries to find a best way to save most people. If Shirou can't able to save everyone even with his tries. He will not regret for it. Sorry for this ‘essay’.
That is pretty ironic, considering Archer knew if he killed his former self he would cease to exist. Maybe kid Shirou didn't necessarily have a "death wish", but by the time he's the Legend of Justice he welcomes ending his existence to escape from the hell he created for himself. It makes the line from "The Dark Knight" All the more significant. "You either die a hero, or live long enough to be a villan." Shirou is a hero, but sees himself as a villan not living up to his own expectations by the time he enters the 5th Holy Grail War as Archer. That in itself adds a layer of depth to this series that makes it worth the watch.
@@JReaLBiz86 archer already exists in the throne of heroes, he explains that killing Shirou wouldn’t cause him to cease to exist. It’s more of a revenge story
@Not so Wealthy Gamer there is also a version with the h scenes modded back in as well, that's probably the one you found. Not sure if it's a setting you can change.... I would head over to beast's lair forums and see if someone there knows how to remove them if it's important to you.
@@angelolawton965 It really didn't make sense with his whole desire to save people. He was willing to trade one life for another and empower a serial killer to kill alot more people(as far as he knew). Those aren't the actions of a hero but an idiot or a monster, who refused to even look for any other options or trust his allies.(seriously, the very next moment in the scene we see saber cut the wires Tagai was being held with. If he had just let her do her thing she would have been fine and they would have just needed to stall until archer showed up. All throughout the anime I was bugged by the fact that Shiro is so inflexible in everything about his beliefs, that he buys needing to not save people to save others when he is living proof that you don't need to. Kiritsugu didn't kill anyone to dig a child out of the rubble of a disaster. If what he cared about was helping people than he should have focused on disaster relief, curing diseases, trying to change society so that the issues that cuase war and suffering could be mitigated. On top of that he could have an actual life and other things to live for so that his ideals don't consume and destroy him like archer. I kept waiting for the anime to have him realize any of this but he never does and it made the entire thing feel stupid and even ruined some of the final fights for me as they felt empty.
@@joelsasmad You mean when he decides to trade Saber for Taiga? One of the things I definitely hate about the anime is how unimportant she seems to Shirou up until that point, she's literaly the main reason why he is not a *completely* menatlly broken individual, she was the closest family he had during the years after Kiritsugu's passing and she only could help him as a sister, never fulfiing the role of an adult. Still, she is the most important for Shirou, and the thing is that Shirou strives to be a hero, and he probably would sacrifice himself in order to save others, but he does have his priorities in the end even he doesn't like to admit it and is those who are close to him, because in the end he is in great part a selfish individual and actually a really fleshed out character, a person with things that he like to do and hate that depending of the circumstances and his current understanding and capacities is forced to confront a reality that defies what he is, what he wants to be, what he chooses to be and the part of himself that he can't seem to control, without the understanding of those things many moments in the story aren't that meaningful. He CAN sacrifice the ones he truly love in order to serve the... "Greater Good", but he's so destroyed in the inside that doing so would kill most part of his own humanity and the remains of his self.worth *cough* Mind of Steel eniding *cough*. One thing about Stay Night is that the theme about heroism is not if it's good or bad, the focusing point is always Shirou and if HE should strive for said ideal due his current situation in every route but that¿s the thing about these adaptations: The Story IS sbout Shirou Emiya, you adapt him poorly, the story is adapted poorly; and no good flashy animation can change that, UBW in that sense is pretty superficial, bad adaptation in it's worse moments and quite good at times making good parallels, but it doesn't hold on it's own as a story unlike the OG Route.
While I love Kiritsugu's character, it's troubling to see him used as a way to diminish Shirou, it makes me feel as if people don't get either of them.
I can never get enough breakdowns of Emiya Shirou's psychology and survival guilt. It's so unique and a crutch for his ideals. It's just so fascinating how natsu made such a creative, real and tangible person. Also, awesome presentation man
Thank you! I didn't aim for this to be specifically a breakdown on Shirou, but rather a demonstration of how the removing of certain aspects of his characterization affected him in the anime adaptation. Had I done a more straightforward character analysis the video would no doubt be much longer.
Shintai my apologies your message was clear nonetheless. When you started pulling references from the absence of the anime portraying that psychology I got excited...but yes anime only watchers would definitely miss this and think of him what he delivers face value. I believe from seeing Heavens Feel they add more self narration. Which I believe is equivalent to spiderman and how he talks to himself. Again great video!! I luv shirou the hero
I am glad you enjoyed the video, I like Shirou's character a lot and I think it's a monumental shame that he has gone so long, so thoroughly misunderstood by the anime community at large. I am glad my video has already helped people appreciate his character more than they did before.
The inner monologues can obviously clarify logic, but I feel ufotable and even studio Deen still conveyed his personality to me. I feel those who misunderstand Shirou are missing more subtle clues that the VN is more blunt about.
OtakuDaiKun I'm working under a belief that the English VA for unlimited blade works is responsible for the interpretation stated in the video, as I feel his voice makes a character sound whiney, even if his actions argue the opposite.
@Insidious no it’s not. The ‘Archer’ route isn’t from any of the three Fate/Stay routes. It’s from its own separate route where Illya was the heroine instead of Saber, Rin, or Sakura.
His Survivors Guilt really does play a part into why Archer became so bitter. He wanted to save others as a way of making up for the lives he couldn't save in the fire. He became Counter Guardian because he thought he was given the power to save more lives, but he ended realizing that he has now killed far more people than the fire ever did. On a different note though, there are alot of things that relates Shirou to Archer that only works in a Visual Novel... Both are actually prone to shit talking, its just that Shirou's words go through a "good guy" filter between his brain and mouth, Archer just lets the insults fly. There was a line in Shirou's mind "I've yet to make tea that satisfies Tohsaka" which I just can't help but laugh a little when remembering Archer's small huff of pride when Rin praised his tea. Remember how Shirou's entire left side went haywire after using projection magic? Take a look at Archer's sprites and you'll notice that his left hand is tensed or clenched. There's a moment where Shirou "gestures to Tohsaka to 'go to hell'", which Archer apparently still remembers as he does the exact same thing when he begrudgingly goes to clean up. There's also two scenes that were removed from the anime and I really wonder why. First is the scene of Archer returning Rin's pendant. After hearing that its a family heirloom, Archer very hurriedly takes out the pendant of his timeline and gives it to Tohsaka saying "You don't have to be that strong." Aside from it being strangely out of character for Archer, its something which Shirou says to Rin later on. Another is Rin repairing Shirou's window. Its a minor one but Rin reparing a hole Shirou's house on her first visit? Guess what Archer did as his first "job" at Rin's Mansion...
@@mattyhowls Yeah Archer Returned it in the show they didn't fuck up that hard its just that they didn't show the opposite where Shirou specifically brings the pendant home in the VN
I believe the issue people have with him as a character stemns from the fact that the anime atempted to communicate Shirou's inner conflicts through subtle visual nods, but people didn't pick on that due to multiple factors, and even if they did, they still couldn't understand that he's a fundamentally broken individual, clinging on to a borrowed ideal that brings forth his warped and contradictory path of becoming a hero of justice, something the Heaven's feel adaptations thus far, had a much easier time given the context of that entire arc.
I was just about to comment on that. I always thought Shirou was off. But even then I didn’t know he kept putting himself in harm’s way because he felt guilty about being protected, and not just out of a lack of self worth. They really were too subtle for their own good.
Agreed but they could have put some of his monologue on how he doesn't want to endanger Archer during Caster fight. They did this with Shirou's thoughts on the twin swords.
Just rewatched deens fate, zero and ubw. I agree but I think part of why ufotable subtle with some aspects with Shirou's character was they likely assumed people had already seen the deen anime. There was heaps of subtle visual queues they did in the series, one that stood out was when they first meet Ilya Sabers visual realization that she was Iri and Kiritsugu's daughter
Since Fate Stay Night was a visual novel so much characterization occurs through thought which is never really explored in anime. Good job on giving insight on what source material Shirou is really like.
When Shirou finally learns the proper way to use his magic circuits his 'switch' as puts it is to put the barrel of a revolver in his mouth, prepare the hammer and fire the weapon at himself
The thing is that in the adaptations, while Shirou is poorly handled, Archer was well adapted in the animated format. Not just that in the Fate and Heaven's Feel route he's a badass, but in the UBW (In the anime at least) he's arguably the best character. Unlike Shirou, we can see and comprehend Archer's actions and motives. I didn't play the Visual Novel yet, but I think that this is because we don't need inner monologues to understand him in the VN. If that's the case, then Archer is much easier to adapt into an animated format, while Shirou proves quite hard.
Well I like archer more than shirou for simple reasons. Shirou is a deconstruction of a hero. Deconstructions oF characters are well written but not written to be liked. Archer isn’t a deconstruction but a result of the deconstruction. It’s more relatable to like the Result then the actual Deconstructions. However this isn’t a hard and fast rule, but I believe it works in this scenario.
One my favorite protagonist characters yet so misunderstood it's stupid. Shirou can't live a normal life, he more soldier if you think about. I swear I hate how they don't show more of his character. Thanks for the video bro. Also is shirou more anti hero than hero.
A lot of it comes from Nasu's writing style. He's extremely heavy on two things: exposition and inner monologue. So much of Shirou's character is delivered to the reader through Shirou's thoughts. If you subtract the inner monologue from the visual novel, then i don't think its exaggerating to say that you'd be subtracting 50-60% of the story. Most of Nasu's works are like that. Tsukihime, Fate/Extra, KnK. However, the 'show dont tell' method of Ufotables anime (don't even get me started on DEENs anime) kind of takes a significant portion of the depth of the stories out of them. It ends up turning a deep character study into survivors guilt and a deconstruction of heroism and shonen tropes and turns it into something that focuses much more on the 'awe-factor' of heroes fighting each other. Something much more... shonen. That's why, i think, alot less of Shirou's character came to the fore-front in the anime when compared to say.... Kiritsugu. If Urobuchi is a better writer than Nasu is debatable... but Uro's style of writing is considerably more 'show-don't-tell' than Nasu's.... having his characters experience the effects of their personalities rather than 'ponder it forever' as Archer puts it.
Krescentwolf While the show and don't tell may work for some characters like kiritsugu it doesn't work with shirou however I will say it will work with him if given proper excution, thats one of the prombles with the anmie addaptation is that shirou is poorly exacuted. Not only that what adds more to prombles is Fate/zero die hards or anmie secondaries and those are the ones that make want to climb though your phone and punch them, there either hypocrites or have one sided opinions aside from that. Not only that but shirou does go against most of the shouen trops. Shirou is more of a realistic character but with shattered mindset and his inner clash with realism and idealism and this cause further complications in his life.
I actually feel like FSN light novel portrays Shirou as such a stupid/ stubborn/ sexist/ man dominent superior complex character I've seen in quite some time. He's the type of character who get a boner even in the most dire situation because Saber is touching him... (I'm like WTF) The anime in UBW actually "fix" Shirou as a character because all of his stupid action and sexist comments are skipped and only his "cool side" is showcase in the UBW adaptation. And yes, I finished the VN version already, as well as watched both UBW and Heaven's Feel anime/ movie, and I think I dislike Shirou even more after playing the VN. I were more neutral toward Shirou before I play the VN, but once I see all his monologues and unnecessary pandering/ getting horny every 5 secs/ make sexist comments every 10 sentences, I actively dislike Shirou now. I swear UFO anime studio notice how disgustingly sexist/ horny Shirou is in the VN that they literally remove almost all of them in the anime.
Ventus S 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂.Lol the fact that you made this Iong i laughed for some time power of asshole eroge protagonist is strong. 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😊😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 oh by the way boner intensefies.
Well, he even got a boner on Illeya in the VN when she's sitting on him despite he's on the brink of being killed. I recently finished VN so it's still fresh in my memory.
Amazing video man! Emiya Shirou is my favourite fictional character of all time. I just finished the Realta Nua VN recently (all 3 routes) and I think the monologues for Shirou's character give readers more of an understanding of his character and how much of a broken individual he really is. I personally really liked Shirou as a character ever since I watched Ufotable's UBW anime, but the VN solidified him as my personal favourite character. The way his character was depicted in the Heaven's Feel route is insane, not going to spoil it for those who haven't experienced that route though :) Anyway fantastic video Shintai, its cool to see Fate content on UA-cam as its a franchise that's not really talked about all that much, which is unfortunate because its AMAZING (And it's my favourite franchise XD) :D
I am glad you enjoyed the video! It's good to hear that the UBW anime inspired you to read the VN. Some people just watch the anime and think that's all there is to it, which is a shame since the VN adds so much more to the experience.
I really do agree on all points you have made about Shirou, despite me having only watched the anime and not the visual novel yet. It really irritates me when he is likened to other characters, like luffy and naruto, when yes, they all share the "Protect everyone/the world" but Shirou took it to the extreme and acted like a machine which showed how broken he was but at the same time admirable. It wasn't a stupid reason such as "because I'm the protagonist and nakama power(looking at Fairy Tail mostly)" that all shonen protagonist seem to automatically say and do. But in Shirou's case it was very simple, because he saw it as a beautiful thing to do but also knows the limits to it but keeps on striving for that outcome. And we all know how EMIYA ended up in life, which proves that good intentions does not mean a happy fairy tale life. Anyways, sorry about this long paragraph that you already know but you reminded me why UBW Shirou and EMIYA are both my favorite main characters in all of anime. Also is there any place to download the VN so that I can read on heavens feel or to watch the movie?
Finally, someone covered this topic in an easier way instead of just having to type out paragraphs about the differences. I applaud you for the effort.
I hope ufotable does a fate route adaption....the VN gives so much more perspective into shirou's thoughts that u can not do in an anime adaption, but i think a better adaption than DEEN stay night nontheless would give people better feelings about Fate Shirou
not really, even among VN readers, fate route is often ranked as the lowest and weakest. seeing it with shirou's perspective wont change much, it is the most straightforward and basic of the routes with a story that you can find in a ton of shounen series. fate route is also the only route in the VN that just has one ending unlike the other routes that get two endings.
Thank you so much for this video. Shirou is very misunderstood by a lot of people, and while it's understandable that not everyone would be a fan of him, I almost always get the view that people misunderstood him and aren't willing to dig deeper to why his character was the way it is in the first place, which is understandable. The anime adaptations in general cut a lot of stuff out by not having monologue, as Nasu's writing style with his VN basically portrays everything the characters think in their mind, which pretty much makes up half of the text. Your video perfectly encapsulates a lot of what makes Shirou an amazing character in my book, so good job.
I never once thought of him as stupid. Personally, I see him for what he a guy with a SEVERE case of Survivor's Guilt and PTSD from the fire. His character is the most realistic in the series.
I usually viewed Shirou as the representation of the purest form of justice because what he went through. using the different routes as vehicles to explore that justice and develop him as a character, in fate he becomes a hero of justice, unlimed blade works he becomes a hero of justice with more wisdom behind his ideal and heavens feel he drops the hero of justice and become a hero who protects those he cares about ,and nothing else really notable character wise.
It breaks your heart when you play or watch the series simultaneously. Looking at shirou so broken that he shattered his own ideal at HF is heartbreaking for me
@@cain2280 i dont consider that he broke exactly his ideal on HF, but changed its direction, despite what he thinks, he does become a hero solving the issue of the war and the countless victims the shadow produced and save the person he loved, its a different direction compared to the other routes, and despite that, it has the more "happier" ending, as fate route shirou is the closest to EMIYA, is one that in one wrong turn will become the EMIYA that sits on the Throne of heroes, while the one in UBW accepts that destiny and embraces it fully, having the core of that ideal hero of justice he had, HF shirou has a less broad ending and more of a closed one, sacrificing sakura in HF would been against his own ideals too,so all 3 come close to what we call emiya shirou
@@HaxeRain Nasu says that none of the 3 Shirou's are likely to become Archer, despite Fate route being closest to Archer's timeline. This is because the variables were not the same. Archer didnt go through any of the same things the 3 FSN Shirou's did. You can consider each route actual characterization for Shirou starting at the beginning of the war and ending and the end. Shirou finds his own reason to exist in each route, but emiya shirou cannot live without pain to himself or living for others. All that matters is the decisions that he makes are done with his own will and for a substantive reason. Fate route is Shirou honoring Arturia's memory, cementing his hero of justice ideal that he comes to learn the truth of later but still follow with her in his heart(because it was not completing the ideal he was searching for) UBW is proving Archer wrong about said ideal and acknowledging its flaws straight out much earlier than Fate route and UBW And HF is Shirou disregarding the ideal because it conflicts with the reality that he chose to lead with Sakura. My favorite is actually fate route because SHirou's growth is more subtle, having to overcome his PTSD from the fire when Kotomine makes him confront it, and unconsciously aknowledge his own flaws when he is trying to protect and save Arturia from her fate, as she has already been going through what Archer did and was warning him and her both about. Last episode is at the end of the story because fate route shirou, despite not actually going through the extreme shifts in world view the other routes do, clearly has to learn about all of that over the course of his life when confronted with hard choices he cant settle with determination alone, but that's also how young people transition into adults normally
I met Emiya Shirou in UBW, without any prior knowledge about him at all. Boom -- instant connection. I did catch UBW's clear hints at Shirou's survivor's guilt, as well as the other aspects covered in this video... yet peaking at his thoughts during the date (5:27) is just devastating. It is absolutely heartbreaking, even if we already knew this was going on inside him... It's just that much more real and ubiquitous, and it just crushes my heart.
My introduction to the fate series was through UBW abridged by Project Mouthwash. Loved it and decided to check the real thing but was kinda confused where to start. I watched Fate Zero, FSN 2006, and UBW anime. I enjoyed them for the most part but wasn't completely sold. So a few days ago I finally decided to visual novel and boy am I GLAD I did!!!! Such rich characters and world and by god are the fight scenes hype to read ESPECIALLY when the bomb ass soundtrack plays. Loved it!!!! I am currently close to ending the UBW route and I am enjoying it quite a lot. Shirou is a much deeper character than I expected. Gonna wait to finish the HF route before I even touch the movies. Hats off to Nasu for writing such a gripping story and characters. To anyone who wants to get into the fate series, I would thoroughly recommend the Visuap Novel as the starting point. Trust me its well worth the time investment :)
The problem of thought monologues being left out of anime adaptations is incredibly common which becomes quickly apparent if you read any light novels and compare them with their anime counterparts. Anime consistently poorly portays the inner thoughts of characters or just doesn't at all leading to creating almost COMPLETELY different characters for the adaptation. This was a greatly insightful video that helped me put into words what i thought about shirou but couldn't quite place my finger on and also shed some good light on the source material that makes it more apparent, great video.
The thing about adaptations is that they are supposed to follow the rule of "show, don't tell", while books and anything that isn't visual have to do the opposite. But that being said, there is a way around it for adaptations. Instead of saying that Shirou has survivor's guilt or struggles with letting himself be happy or letting anyone save him, show him be happy only to be saddened and try to distance himself. Show him having nightmares to the fire or visiting the site of where he was found. That is where the anime fail. They failed to adapt these core traits of Shirou through visual story-telling.
Even more worse someone said that gudako is better character than gudao, dude they are literally same person just with different gender. Just say you want cute anime girl as mc is not that hard.
Honestly I understood Shirou’s character very well through the anime and I think it was subtle things that you kinda have to look more into. I understood his survivors guilt very well and I was able to pick up on it and understand his character simply by facial expression and subtle word choices. He and the heroic spirit Emiya are two of my favorite characters even before I knew of their connection.
I've always loved Shirou's character. For me he was always a more realistic style of hero in a way. It was like the writer looked at a standard shounen hero and thought "now how to make this a believable character..." The result, a twisted mess of a man, which makes him more interesting and dynamic than one would normally get, especially in the Heavens Feel route where we get to see his gradual shift in mentality to something incrementally closer to a recognisable norm
Can totally feel this, first time I watched the anime without any knowledge I hated Shirou, he was helpless idiot that couldn't stand to watch, inmature with the classic cliche that "I'm an anime protagonist, I'm kind, wanna save everyone, have all the girls but I can't do shit by my own". I re watched the UBW anime and could feel Shirou as a character a little more. Now after playing the visual novel he has become one of my favorite characters of all time, not only from anime. The will to keep fighting for his ideal, in Shirou's words, "even if he's not able to reach it, he will endlessly keep fighting for it."
XD Whoa this video came out of nowhere, but it's great to inform people who haven't read the visual novel. I read the VN prior to watching the anime adaptations and felt a pretty big disconnect between the two Shirou's. It really sucks; the anime has slick action scenes while the VN provides very intimate experiences with the characters. I wish I could have both!
I know how you feel. The anime adaptation of the Shirou vs Archer fight was great, but the emotional impact of The Answer scene from the visual novel was amazing.
@@nopeyoudontknowmyname9153 Live a long painful life, knowing that you will never truly be a good person, and that the rest of your life will be nothing but the endless pursuit of slight changes to your personality that will never satisfy your egotistical view of yourself.
The thing about ufo adaptation that pisses me off the most is that they left out the fact that Kiritsugu dies right after Shirou promised to fulfill his dream in his stread which would've made people sympathize with Shirou a tee bit more as to why he's so crazy over his stupid ideal.
I used to feel all these things about Shirou. It wasn't till VN readers informed me of the kind of character he's supposed to be, and watching UBW and later fates has made him one of my favorite characters ever.
Really though, after reading through the VN, I'm really glad I listened to people in that regard. It really made me realize more about Shirou's character and make me symphatize with his character. I can understand people who hate him, but not those who hate him for the wrong reason.
Shirou is my favorite character and Unlimited Blade Works is my favorite route. Always has been. I feel like it's the story where Shirou overcomes himself and grows not only as a person, but as a hero. Being able to acknowledge that weakness and turn it into a strength and become more than you were before is, I feel, the mark of a true hero. And the fact that Tohsaka is able to stick with him even after some of the reckless things he does, not only shows how much she cares, but that she understands on some level that the things that made him the way he is were completely out of his control and she accepts him for who he is regardless of it.
Most people would say Legolas, but Shirou and Archer are why I got into archery. Yeah, Archer's cool and badass, but Shirou's admiration of his skills just kind of got into me and led me to practice.
Shirou is so interesting cause of how he contrast to his predecessor Kiritsugu, his similarity with Kirei, and his "successor" Avenger. He is by definition, all 3 of the things those man in a way admire.
Yep. Kiritsugu and archer both admire shirou for his values even if they disagree. Matthew and kirei as well are jealous of shirous purity. Its also what causes rin and sakura to fall for him and especially arturia who mirrors him in that purity
Shirou was extremely calm and level headed during UBW when Medusa used her bounded field. Something even Tohsaka was incapable of doing. In fact, we even see him not bat an eye when he focused on Sakura. When the bounded field was removed, Shirou actually felt like a machine.
So TL;DR Shirou has a survivor's guilt which warps his Altruism (his very essence) to the next level. Also, I believe that if all three Shirous personality merge, I think the personality would be more "normal": he's optimistic about his ideal (Fate), knows its flaws yet strives for it (UBW), and knows how to be selfish for his loved ones (Heaven's Feel)
Thats basicly oath under snow Shirou he threw away his desire to be a hero of justice to save his younger sister Miyu eventhough doing so will doom his world as she's the holy grail of his world nescary to save a world runing out of mana. He said screw it I know the consquences but I love my sister and I wont let you sacrifice her just to save the world.
@@chromosaur2560 oath under snow shirou is like someone wrote a bad fanfiction based on shirou and tried to out edge the original shirou and give him tons of over the top silly badass moments without understanding the core thematic purpose of the original vn character. while also giving him a silly original character sister to dote over and put his entire life into for some reason to give any kind of context to his actions as a weird hf clone Oh wait, i just decribed the reality of things
I love stories involving characters suffering through survivor's guilt. Tales that immerse themselves in deep, philosophical questions about what it means to be a hero, the lines between selflessness and self-hatred/ duty and obsession, and the true nature of a person willing to sacrifice themselves for complete strangers while those that care for them suffer as a direct or indirect consequence of their actions. You can't help but feel both admiration and pity for such characters, because in front of you stands someone who undoubtedly deserves to be happy and to be at peace-- and yet can't be, because they won't allow it for themselves. Hell even the character I have in my avatar is an example of one such person, very similar to Shirou in that regard (though a bit more emotionally standoffish and broken).
As someone who went into the anime from the VN who has tried to explain why shirou is a good character to my friend I thank you now I have a video I can point them at
Here's a list of things anime only's don't know about shirou: Shirou is mentally disabled, he has survivor's guilt. Shirou is "sexist" in the fate route because he'd rather himself be in danger then artoria, Shirou doesn't like archer in the beginning of UBW because he feels like a burden to him, blaming himself for anything that bad happens. Shirou is aware of that he is a bit delusional (as mentioned before), and when tohsaka confronts him about it in UBW, he both agreed and disagreed with everything she said, which is why he looked so confused and disturbed in the anime. The reason why when he fought archer and the sky went cleared was because he finally fully understood UBW from paying attention to archer's actions, he took control over it. It returned to a sunset when he fought gilgamesh because the red shows the rage he felt when he remembered illya's death, the yellow shows his happiness that he finally was able to make the world of his dreams to become an ally of justice/a hero of justice.
maybe I just notice more details, but I've always known that, even though I'm an anime only. so when he said that anime only people think of him as reckless and stubborn, I was genuinely suprised
Many, many thanks to you for making this video. I feel like many misunderstood Shirou and put him into the cupboard with all the same "hero"-protagonists. And i really feel like you've showed those people that made this mistake, that they certainly can pull him out of there and set him on the display of those few, very unique characters created purely from ficiton. I feel like especially Shirou contradicting himself and taking note of it is what makes him feel more "real" than most other characters.
The Heaven's Feel movie seems to be conveying his personality and inner thoughts quite a bit better through visuals alone. The sight of the burning Fuyuki that Shirou sees when Kirei brings up the fire, for example.
I’m kinda late, but... You know how people compare Kiritsugu and Shirou, calling the second one trash? Those guys totally didn’t try Heaven’s Feel route, the moment when you decide to let Sakura die, Shirou becomes Kiritsugu 2.0 and destroys the Holy Grail... and Type-Moon called it a bad end
I actually read the fate route in the VN before rewatching unlimited blade works and it just made me so much more invested in his character. I feel like I really didn't get him at all at first but afterwards I saw so much of myself in him. During the whole scene where Emiya is fighting archer and Last Stardust plays I legitimately started crying just with the power of the moment. At first I thought it was just cool but it was so much more resonant and powerful understanding his character. I definitely agree with you.
This is why i always says people need to watch fate stay night 1st no matter what and try to read the visual novel if possible before trying to watch fate/zero. Many people were overrating Emiya Kirritsugu's Ideals and actions and compared shirou to him, made many unfair and wrong judgement on both characters.
I feel like you did a pretty good job summarizing some of my thoughts of the anime adaption of the series, the main ones anyway, and how Shirou gets portrayed in them. But really, this is a problem with many VN-to-anime adaptations in general. Trying to adapt what is basically a book's worth of text ("Fate/Stay Night" in particular has a text count greater than the "The Lord of the Rings" trilogy combined if I remember correctly) into a visual medium with a limited budget and time restrictions usually have notable issues to some degree. Add in stuff like how internal monologues usually gets removed and it gets even messier. And that's not even getting into how the 3 routes of "Fate/Stay Night" were purposely set up to play off each other which makes adapting them properly that much more difficult in general. Like at the end of each route, Shirou ends up at different conclusions regarding his ideals due to the experiences he had in each particular route. Even if the adaptions were done perfectly, comparing and contrasting what would essentially be three full on 2-cour shows would be asking for too much out of most people. I mean, no offence, but this is the same community that, still to this day, misquotes Shirou's "People die when they are killed" line despite how it makes complete sense in context. Unfortunately, Shirou isn't the only aspect that tends to falter in these adaptations, Ufotable's adaptions especially. I've noticed several times of details getting changed or thrown out the window entirely just to make some action scenes look cooler but to the detriment of some world building or characters. Like how in the VN, Assassin never managed to utilize the full power of his Tsubame Gaeshi for a variety of reasons but the anime treats him like he did...several times. Shinji in particular is another character in general that, while the hatred for him is at least justified since he is supposed to be unlikable, I feel like a lot of people completely miss or just don't understand the purpose of his characterization. Not helped with the adaptions making him progressively come off as being worse and worse. I'd even say he's probably even more misunderstood than Shirou is, but that's a different topic entirely. But yeah, good job with the video.
"No offence, but this is teh same community that, still to this day, misquotes Shiru's "People die when they are killed" line despite how it makes sense in context" I am not sure why I would take offense to that, but the actual problem is that the line is a mistranslation that turned into a meme. Shirou never actually says it like that, there has been some revisionist history going on where the joke has become a twisted reality. Either way I am glad you liked the video, it looked like you were able to get some frustrations off your chest with this comment.
I didn't mean offence towards you in particular, but more that I was being snide by talking down about others to make a point, which isn't something you really should do in any kind of discussion as it's pretty unprofessional. And yeah, I know that it's not a completely accurate translation, though I've also seen people say it is accurate but just less wordy so I don't know what the exact case is considering I can't speak or read Japanese myself. Nasu's writing style apparently isn't the easiest thing to translate so there's actually a couple instances of this. But regardless, it's still something that mostly makes sense in context but is constantly being taken out of context as part of a joke to devalue a character. That's all I meant.
The funny thing is, the mistranslation came from the 2006 Studio Deen adaptation, technically whoever mistranslated it didn't even mistransalte Nasu's writing itself but rather the anime version's which you would assume is probably a more streamlined interpretation of the text. Oh well I can't speak Japanese either so what the hell do I know? I do agree people tend to state it as a way of dismissing Shirou or Fate as a whole and it's just absurd. I remember one person used it to deride the character and when I corrected him, his response was "I know it's wrong, but I don't care, I am going to make fun of it anyways because Fate sucks" or something along those lines. I mean fair enough if you're not a fan, but if you're gonna make fun of it, why do so when you know the joke is inherently disingenuous? That sort of behaviour bothers me.
Ah yes, I remember being annoyed with the portrayal of the Assassin fights. >VN: Assassin uses TG while on different elevation, technically making it only two strikes at the same time (hard to dodge, but possible); in second fight blocks Saber’s blow to put her in the right spot, but in return bends his sword slightly, leaving a hole in the technique >anime: casualy gets in the right position and fires of full TG...too bad Saber rather easily dodges the supposed undodgeable attack; second fight same as the first, except now Saber just cuts him after dodging (I mean, what did he expect after that first time?) It honestly feels like they were trying to make Saber look more badass...at the cost of other characters being a lot less threatening (similiar thing happens earlier with Berserker).
I know this is five years later, but another example of Ufotable changing things for no reason is the entirety of the Shirou vs Kirei fight in Heaven's Feel.
Finally someone standing up for Shirou! ☺Thank you! It is really sad how people tend to judge and put labels on him too easily, not that I can blame then but its just too much sometimes. I hope this video can get alot of views so at least even for a bit we can change some of the perspective that anime fans tend to think about Shirou.
Shirou deserves so much more credit than what he gets, if I help contribute even in a small way to helping people understand him better, than I've done what I set out to do.
man I undesrtood shirou without no hwlp of the vn, it was obvious he was keeping to himself, and that is why he is one of my favorite characters, then I asked my friends, and they all had shallow interpretations of him.
It's probably thanks to a lot of people who discredit Shirou's depth--even if it's understandable that they don't agree with Shirou's mentality--that Shirou never got the appreciation from the common audience that he deserved (shoutout Digibro). I mean seriously, I struggle to think why him as a protag is so underrated. Considering how unrelatable yet sympathetic his character is, I can understand him not being popular, but for him not being given his due? Absolute travesty.
I’ve always loved Shirou as a protagonist and while yeah it’s a shame the inner thoughts you showed in the video weren’t in the anime with UFO had to work with I still think they did a admirable job. Still great video man. Also what were your thoughts on the UBW dub?
I wish they included at least some of Shirou's inner monologue. Having him speak over some of the fight scenes, maybe a still of who he's talking bout. It's doable in the medium, but it can be hard to do well.
AnimeWolf7 regarding his guilt, did Shirou ever learn that it was Kiritsugu’s fault? Cause I’m sure he’d have a different opinion of himself if he knew the truth.
Skyrogue Yes he learns about what Kiritsugu did during the 4th war in Heaven's Feel thanks to Kirei. I'd say afterwords he views Kiritsugu similar to how he felt about Archer in UBW but I could be wrong about that.
The problem, I always felt, is that VN Shirou is a legit complex character, and none of the animes have had the depth to really do it justice, they've all been kinda shallow action series, when the original was borderline horror in a lot of ways.
I suffered from survivals guilt and it's actually kinda painful if you try and put shirou in your perspective just imagine looking at people dying around you and you survived and because of this they develop this trauma its basically saying in your head "Why did I survive? And "I am unworthy of this other people deserve happiness more than me" you just focus on him being a hero of justice and sometimes that's why people hate him it's hard to adapt this into anime and because he didn't said that much about it making it misunderstand shirou's character Shirou is stupid I can't deny that since I was also stupid I lended a hand on everyone even if got beat up and because of this he's character portrays such a perfect copy of a person suffering from survivals guilt Like I said the main reasons people hate him is because you cannot relate to him at all being a HERO OF JUSTICE you just forgot his trauma and just literally hated him for being a hero of justice like shirou said what's wrong with it when I was still suffering from it I watched fate stay night and I liked shirou's character for some reason I couldn't understand and now that I grew up and got a therapy it's all clear now About shirou abandoning saber for taiga let me put you into decision would you want to put your somehow resembling familyinto danger for somebody you just met some few days ago? Literally people are so focused on it plus if you're talking about shirou's wish did you think he wanted to be in the holy gra war no heck no
@@heliosjollywolf9552 Damn yes! I just finished the goddamn VN yesterday and started UBW right away. He's a fucking bad character. An intolerable mc. As a long time enthusiast, I can say that this is the first time that an mc annoyed me as hell
realist here but idealism isn't the issue its the fact people simply have lost the ability to empathize with others no matter what. Hint just look at the atheist movement and their intolerable hate of anyone religious. Another place to look into is politics and you can see this is rampant in all parties but is most prevalent in the so called progressives. Simple selfishness taken to the extreme. But yup hit the nail on the head there archer is the selfish shiro.
I used to be a Shirou hater back when I watched Fate Zero and UBW (Didn't watch dean anime, nor was heaven's feel out), but after watching Heaven's feel, as well as other anime where Shirou appear and character analysis and getting to know the character better, I became a Shirou simp, he is the best waifu in fate.
I discovered Shirou like this : -Deen fate route adaptation - VN Then the rest And I can’t understand who anyone would believe he is as described by “anime only”
Its weird that after years of people telling me to read the Fate Visual Novel, it never occurred to me that they were saying was: "Go read the Book." I'm embarrassed to say that the concept never clicked for me until now.
I never understood why so many people hated him. As someone who has only seen the fate and ubw routes, I thought the ubw anime did an amazing job in portraying shirous character, and stapling his as one of my favorite anime characters
@@DanielSantosAnalysis I'd do my best to keep them away tbh. Getting people into Fate these days means your ultimate goal would be pushing them into gacha hell.
@@SonnyFRST Obviously that wasn't my intentions, I wanted people to get into the VN. It kind of bums me out to think that the gatcha game is what most people seem to know Fate for these days.
@@DanielSantosAnalysis Also, Visual Novels kinda suck (It's only when they're slapped on top of another genre, like with Ace Attorney, Danganronpa or Zero Escape, that they work, because then the lack of gameplay is remedied)
I watched the anime unlimited blade works, I diden't really see what he did as particularly stupid. In fact I admired him in a lot of ways to be honest and throughout unlimited blade works I was rooting for him and believing that he could do it. I started out with Fate Zero and got introduced to Shiro through his dad and had an instant connection to him then and there. From there on in unlimited blade works I rooted for him and I could certainly tell he was badly effected by his youth. Overall, not knowing most of this information, it was still pretty easy in my mind to understand Shiro, sympathize with him and believe in his ideals, which I did and was convinced entirely by the end that he was right.
Great video and analysis of characters. I always find it intriguing how many people think Shirou is simply annoying, when he is one of my favorite character in the fate franchise, but you really managed to explain it in a way for everybody to understand how complex his psyche is.
To be honest, if I hadn't played the visual novel before I watched the anime, I'm not 100% certain I would have picked up on everything about Shirou and I might not have understood his character on the first time through. And if I had misunderstood his character I probably wouldn't have watched UBW more than once. So I can understand how people who only watched the adaptation could not like him. Because I understand his psychology I can appreciate and like his character despite his flaws. Shirou is one of my favorite characters BECAUSE I understand him. So thanks for this video...I hope people who never played the VN will watch this and watch UBW again with a better understanding of him. PS. Saber is #1 wifu
Thank you for putting into concise and critical words what I've been telling people about Shirou, I've always thought that Shirou and Kiritsugu were on equal footing as protagonists of their own shows. Yet it's so hard to contextualise that contrast them against each other as they so SO different. So when I think which is the better protag I stop myself and say how different they are. Went on a bit of a tangent but my point is people don't give the subtext of Shirou's actions enough thought, except for you, well done mate.
SleepingPhoenix Kiritsugu is not as broken as Shirou, Kiritsugu still have more human feelings on them, a man that wants to become a machine, Shirou is a machine that wants to become a man but a complex machine can't be fixed regardless.
Even though I only saw the anime and didn't play the visual novel, I actually feel like all you said managed to come through pretty well in the anime as subtext, While they never have Noriaki Sugiyama/Bryce Papenbrook say these lines, I feel the context and the prior scenes, the camerawork and the music all allow you to see into shirous mind and understand all this without needing the monologue. This is just my opinion though, I loved this video, I think it was very well made, thank you for making it
Thank you for making this video. I love Shirou's character, and I see too many people just dismiss him without having even read the visual novel, where you actually get to see his true personality and thoughts.
I think most of the misunderstanding of shirou comes from the first adaptation that didn't delve into archers backstory. Since Archer is (SPOILERS) future shirou he has all of shirous self worth issue while also realizing that his ideals are childish and naive. Without the jaded future version explaining how in the end his ideals caused him more pain then simply dying like he always believed he should have that death just seems like the better option, the way he presents himself as stupid and naive.
To be fair to ufotable though, it _is_ pretty difficult to adapt stuff like that into anime without turning the whole thing into an exposition dump. And they did a much, much better job of portraying Shirou as a likable protagonist than Deen ever could. There, he's just an idiot.
Nine Flames It would have been sweet if they shoehorned in condensed narrations into the previews for the episodes, during the little montages. If they did it right, that'd be a neat way to incorporate something like that.
Or they could have used a Monogatari-esque style. You know, with actual text on the screen to show the character's inner thoughts. Either way, I'd imagine adapating anything written by Nasu into anime would be a challenge thanks to his particular style of writing. The Kara no Kyoukai adaptations suffer from many of the same problems touched on in this video: there is a distinct lack of exposition because most of the time only the spoken dialogue made it into the adaptation, which is why that series is so confusing if one watches it in chronological order.
Oddly enough, the only successful Shirou who got adapted in anime (Not counting Archer since he's always awesome) would be Miyuverse Shirou. I guess because they condensed his story in a way that him and Miyu are the focal point of the story. Also, he's basically the mixture of all 3 route but removed the needless exposition and executed perfect hence he's been one the fan's favorite Shirou that even comparable to Archer. You don't need tons of monologue to understand his struggle, you don't need a bunch of mana transfer or Romcom tropes to understand the familial love between Shirou and Miyu. I think making him more aware, smarter and more mature due to how his world works made his choice more relatable. We also follow his story since his childhood with Kiritsugu so it's easier for us to understand how much Kiritsugu influence on him. Not to mention by eliminating the harem (though Sakura was still there) and the much more interesting Servant, you can see how he shined as a standalone character.
Er, shirou has never had a harem. HA counts I guess. But he has never had a harem in any of the routes. Having a relationship with different people in entirely different timelines doesn't make a harem.
Huh? He indeed has a harem. For the Fate route, even it's on and off with saber, Rin and Sakura still had the hots for Shirou. UBW literally had an ending where Shirou had a threesome with Saber and Rin. Heaven's Feel was basically Rider, Sakura and Rin. Illyaverse Shirou got Illya, Kuro, Rin and Luvia. In what universe do you think Shirou is not a haremancer? Heck, even Carnival Phantasm made a exclusive episode about the Harem joke.
This is the problem with adaptations. (This is going to be large, but first) Nice video, this made it simpler for me to understand Shirou's character a bit more, after all, if you just watch the anime, you won't get his survivor's guilt and the way his ideal works with it until the very last episodes, where he fights Archer. Now, to the point: You just can't easily dapt into an anime, or a movie a character who inner monologues while narrating at the same time (Most of VNs characters case) It losses sense with the sole question of, why would he be narrating if we can already see what's going on? Maybe you can get in the script a small thought, but not the whole VN monologue, which on itself, would either not be enough, or would simply look and sound bad. As an example, the fight between Archer and Assassin. They should have gone with Assassin just playing offensive while Archer played defense for the first trade, just to then give Shirou a face expression or his sight focusing onto Archer and giving a small inner thought like "His technique is..." before fainting, and probably proceeding with Assassin praising or making a remark into Archer's trained technique (despite being mostly improvised) "For an Archer servant, you're quite skilled with those swords of you" It would probably look bad but it would give a small depth into Shirou's character. As with the chapter of Tohsaka, Saber and Shirou hanging out, there's really small place to introduce his process thought. As ex, while he's having fun, he would make a small thought remarking on him just passing by that part of the city and never enjoying it's activities "So.. this is what I have been missing out all along?" just to then proceed to the end of the "date" This, gives you 2 options on adaptations. Or you either risk a failure an get in some small monologues Or you don't include his inner monologues other than the key ones (Ex: Archer vs Shirou fight, once he realises about Archer's past). Obviously, I am not a screen-writer. But that's the way I see things at least with this one.
i first got into the fate series back with the deen adaptation and i didn't think much of shirou at the time but after actually reading the VN shirou quickly became one of my favorite characters in fiction.
BOOM That was sick Thank you for this video, I feel like I should read the novel now and BOI I'm writing this at the end of the video and I hear some recognizable chillhop. I can remember the name of the track but yes, love this video even more now. Shout outs to you my man. Wavy stuff. I'll hit you with the sub c:
I've only watched UBW but I always liked Shirou and viewed him as such a complex and broken character, especially after the reveal of Archer's identity. Thanks to your video, now I understand him better and like him even more.
And this is why I tell prospective interested people to start with the Visual Novel, rather than any adaptation. The best way to understand a story and its characters is through the source material. It had been ages since I read the original, but I've always held it in high regard. I don't even remember any of those lines. But now I know why I liked the VN best. Thanks so much for this work!
most adaptations change the charachterisation depending on how the people who adapt it percive the charachter(allthough n this case nasu wrote the episodes so i don't know if he just forgot his own charachter) the umineko adaptation and higurashi adaptation do the same and have no idea how to handle their chaeachters and comes of as bad.To make things even worse they even took out important clues to help you solve the msyteries to the point even if you got the answer it would make no sense.I just wish some VNs would get a better adaptation than what they got.I also hope my favourite VN the house in fata morgana gets adapted some day to get more recognition(the same with rose guns days cause no one talks about that one)
I don't think Nasu forgot, he said his intention with the anime was show how Shirou's character appears to those that don't know what he's thinking. I mean, I kinda get that for him just re-treading the same ground in the exact same way would be boring but it had an adverse affect on the show.
I agree completely. Love the character of Kiritsugu (I see him more as a tragic and sad charcter rather than a cool/badass one) and what his presence means in both Fate/Stay Night and Zero to Shirou and Kirei. But Shiroudefinitely fascinated me as a character and has easily become one of my favorites. He's so easy to understand just by reading and so layered at the same time, there's a lot I can say and talk about him that it saddens me that many misunderstand him and don't even want to try to know him more.
Kiritsugu is interesting?? Nah. Infuriating? Yes. An "unusual" experienced assassin throwing tantrum in a war where the reward is the omnipotent wish?? Wtf?
@@cynt4416 I think you don't see whole zero series. In finale, he refuse to ask a wish because holy grail or more precisely angra mainya only show him the worst possible way of his wish. Kiritsugu understand grail was corrupted.
Anyone that hates on Shirou but hasn't played the VN doesn't even matter to me, tbh. Those inner monologues and so on are *needed* to understand the depth of Shirou's character. There is so much more to him than the various anime have shown.
Great video man, i really like it because from what i saw on the internet Shirou is a character that is very easy to misunderstand for those who only watched the anime and it does clarify a lot of things about him even if we focus on just one scene. One thing i would like to point out is that in my opinion the moment where he looks at archer's swords 17:16 is not purely admiration for Archer, but also his nature as a sword incarnation working subconsciously. While it is true that he doesn't pay as much attention to berserkers axe-sword, its because it was prepared by the Einzbern together with the catalyst so it holds neither power nor history. Every time a noble phantasm appears it gets lots and lots of attention because it is subconsciously analyzed on sight.
![Don't SLEEP On EMIYA [Fate/Stay Night/FSN]](/img/n.gif)
Thank you for watching! In case you wanted a bit of behind the scenes insight on the video, originally this was supposed to be a pretty short 7 minute video without any of the extra voice acting. The more I wrote the script however, the more I realized how much the anime left out in regards to Shirou's characterization. That being said I still left out a substantial amount of what makes Shirou a fascinating character but I wanted to keep the video more focused as opposed to a full blown character analysis. If you have any questions about the video or about Fate in general, please let me know and I'll get back to you as soon as I can!
One more thing, I dunno why I said "Honnoji Temple" I was supposed to say "Ryoudou Temple" just a weird mistake on my part.
Most of what you've said is actually in the adaptation just implied through visuals barring "I don't want to burden him".
For example, when Archer Calabolg'd Caster ufotable intentionally slow-motioned and framed it at Shirou's perspective with an accompanying "That's". Then the Caster dialogue you mentioned in this video happens. When Saber and Shirou was trying to escape from Ryuudou Temple, Shirou's eyes were glued to Archer vs. Assassin fight. The "It's rare to hear speak ill of someone" and the comment about Archer's technique happens in the after credits. Saber being bitter about Shirou copying Archer's techniques happens the next episode.
The point of the date scene can already be surmised from the dialogues by Tohsaka to Shirou in the previous episode. The audience is reminded again when Rin said "You're back to normal. I'm glad." after a snarky comment from Shirou. Upon realizing this, Shirou asked Rin why she slept over and then thanked her.
At the bus on the way home, Rin asked "Did you have fun". Shirou then answered : "Well, I haven't goofed around like that for a long time" but his tone and facial expressions are pretty telling. Rin then said "Look, if you had fun just say so." and telling him he was rude. Shirou denies this but Rin said: "You're subconsciously slamming on the brakes." followed by her commenting to let go whatever happened in the past. Cut to Shirou's facial expression. This then became a build up to the Taiganapping.
Shirou copying Archer's techniques doesn't get across the internal conflict Shirou has about being infatuated with someone he is both hates yet respects because he sees himself in him.
While those scenes do illustrate that Shirou is mentally conflicted it doesn't quite get across what Shirou is feeling and why. The implication is there but it was difficult for many viewers to truly empathize with him because they couldn't get a full handle on what his deal was.
I thought the after credits already gives this internal conflict. Saber: Well, it's rare for you to speak ill of someone. But you aren't angry at Archer for attacking you." Once Saber starts complimenting Archer, Shirou flashbacks to Archer vs. Assassin in which his facial expression says he can't deny what Saber said but suddenly made snarky comment about Archer's sword skill saying he failed to kill Shirou even from behind. Next scene Shirou reflects about his mistakes that night and said he can't lose to Archer the bastard after hearing what he said during the Caster convo.
Even back in episode 6 during the discussion about Servants and tools, you get dialogues like "Well..", "Regrets" and listen how Shirou's JP VA applied the tone. Also observe the"All in the name of seeking the grail" scene which had Shirou's facial expression downcast.This conversation with Archer clearly affected the next scene when Taiga says: "Saber-chan was really mad at you" in a joking manner then Shirou says "I bet..." in a serious tone glancing sideways downward. Taiga then took a note of this (notice the pause and facial expression) so she instead delivered a good news about Mitsuzuri ( her tone was serious for once) to change the mood.
Again, what you describe is the anime simply implying but never fully fleshing out these concepts in any sort of detail. At most the audience can gather in a vague sense that these concepts are present, but because they aren't conveyed properly they're difficult to be latched on to and properly understood. This then leads to the audience finding it difficult to empathize with Shirou because at best they may only have a vague interpretation of his inner conflicts.
I can't speak for others but I thought it's pretty clear by episode 16, 19, 20, 21 what Shirou and Archer's issues are. I'm a bit adamant about this topic cuz I think this is a good thing especially in a visual medium. I see this as an improvement over their Fate Zero adaptation of being too direct when it comes to dialogues. You aren't directly told about stuff but rather it's up to the audience to put the pieces together provided that the narrative culminates it to something which are the episodes I mentioned.
"Shirou does not want to end his own life"
*Cough* Emiya *Cough*
XD so true
@@castleofshadows its a joke
@@rajder656 i know, the idea just occurred to me and i explained it for no apparent reason, do you really think i wouldn't know that it was a joke nor that shiro wants to kill himself after watching most fate series??!
cough satan cough
Rin: I just want to stand on the corpses of six fallen heroes drinking ginger-ale from a goblet touched by the blood of Christ.
Teenage girl stuff.
I think Shirou's feelings about Archer are pretty well summed up with the infamous line: "Just because you're correct doesn't mean you're right!" He agrees with Archer objectively, and accepts the truth to his methods, but he cannot morally accept Archer's ethics.
As much as people meme that line, those that know what he's saying get an entirely different feeling.
@@scurreith3667 it's the same as "People die when they are killed." he means that a person, _humans_ are dead once they're "dead". they dont get back up, they dont regenerate, they dont show any level of "life" or even "animation". The dead are meant to stay dead.
if it gets back up after you've "killed" it? It cant be human. Humanoid, human-like, even human tempered and mannered, yes, but clearly not your bog-standard human.
@@Xenmaru00 In context it also means that he shouldn't rely on Avalon to survive his reckless stunts, 'when you die there's no coming back from that as it should be'. That he should take care of himself more and live
That line wasn't translated right, though didn't exist in the VN anyways. But FYI, in Japanese Anime Shirou said "Your correctness is not the correctness I need". (Which quite honest is just as blend and unconvincing).
Originally in the VN, it wasn't a question about morals, but a clash when faced the fact that whether his emotions were genuine, or him simply imitating Kiritsugu as his way to cope with hopelessness.
Shirou wasn't trying to imply he is correct, or that his feels were real (unlike the anime Shirou which is implying his feelings are real). VN Shirou stood back up because he realized and was fully embraced the fact that his emotions are indeed fake, but is okay with being just a tool, because even if the ideal didn't come from his feelings, he believed in Kiritsugu, and the ideal he tries to protect is beautiful, even if it's not his. Even if may be hypocrisy, and even if he himself condemns it in the end, it's the action itself that is the most important.
This is the central theme of the route (which the anime completely misunderstood), and why the author sets up a scenario for Shirou to convincingly defeat Gilgamesh in the VN after delivering the line *"there is no rule that an imitation cannot defeat the original."* Answer was literally the climax of the route, and Gilgamesh's fight is the _application of its theme._
UBW is probably the worst adaptation done by ufotables, right up there with Oblivion Recorder. Coincidentally, they have the same director.
@@SoysauceML I just watched UBW like a day or two ago, and it was my first enterance into the Fate series, and having planned on playing the VN, this was actually incredibly helpful. It confused me so much why Shirou would be ok with becoming Archer eventually despite seeing how it IS the reason his ideals become distorted (in that it is the act of achieving those ideals that crushes the one holding them in the first place), and then he somehow beats the STRONGEST FUCKING SERVENT EVER, but the UBW route through this lens make so so much more sense. I haven't seen any other fate, so any recs or other explanations as awesome as this one that I should see?
Shirou: i wanna BE him!
Counter Force: I can help
Archer: noooOOO!
Alaya/Counter Force is a bitch
Chris Crimson abridged?
@@bellamydoucette9530 without it humanity would wipe it self
No the original shirou never took a similar path to emiya, refused alaya, and met saber in Avalon after ascending the throne.
Unlock all path and possibility gives you that hidden ending in fate/stay night vn
@@taipao6661 that’s Fate Shirou. The absolutely first ever/original Shirou did not bond with Saber, mourns the death of Ilya hella, and forms a contract with Alaya. Archer Shirou came before any of the Shirous in the VN
It's simple. Anime doesn't show how good Shirou is at cooking. Such character just can't be disliked.
Not even wrong.
No, how could you forget the spinoffs!?
Then you haven't seen Emiya-san Chi Kyou no Gohan
what? there's the spin off tho that emiya can cook anything
@@DanielSantosAnalysis *The only times Shirou cried in Fate, are in the bridge scene with saber, anything involving Illya in HF...and Saber Alter saying that shirou is a bad cook*
"While shirou understands that what Archer's saying is _correct..._ "
*Me:* _Say the thing!_
"That doesn't necessarily mean that..."
*Me:* *_Yeeees!_*
" _...What archer says should be completely trusted_ "
*Me:* goddammit
Hah!
i think you want to say "While shirou understands that what Archer's saying is correct That doesn't necessarily mean that What archer says should be *Right* " and that s what i thinking when Daniel saidd that
I was just thinking it was the difference between factually correct and morally right
@@faresdadi9263 It is. It's just fun to look at it at face value.
It's funny the line your referencing has been memed to hell but is actually quite a good line when you understand what it actually means
One important thing to keep in mind about Shirou is that he completely lost his identity during the Fuyuki fire. Not only did he forget his original name and everything about his background, his entire personality, values and dreams were scorched down to a blank slate. In his own memories of the fire, he describes himself almost as if from the outside, walking aimlessly through the flames without a goal in mind aside from taking the next step, until he just physically can’t anymore and collapses.
Meanwhile, Kiritsugu during the Fuyuki fire had also lost everything - not only had he, within his mind, cast aside all his loved ones for the sake of his “mission,” he was now witnessing the failure of epic proportions said mission had turned into. He was incoherent, searching through the ruins desperately to try and find absolutely anything he could do or anyone he could save to redeem himself to any extent.
And he found Shirou.
At that moment, Kiritsugu was genuinely happy, from the bottom of his heart. The knowledge that he had managed to save anyone at all from the disaster was salvation itself - he probably would have killed himself without that. And that happiness was the first thing Shirou, in his new identity as a blank slate, latched onto, and the only thing he registered as a positive emotion in that hellscape.
From that day onward, for Shirou, the deal was done: the prime value in his mind now was saving / helping people = good feeling. In other words, saving and helping people would from then on be the only thing Shirou derives any positive emotional feedback from.
Most crucially, Shirou never recovered from this until FSN: he never rebuilt a “normal” emotional frame of reference for things and events, and always had extreme difficulty generating genuine positive (or negative) feedback from things that would normally trigger it. The UBW anime highlights this when Mitsuzuri points out that she’s never seen Shirou really smile - in actual fact, almost nobody has, because Shirou is almost never happy. Sure, he can enjoy things superficially, but not on any level deeper than “this is nice.” Even things he excels at and spent years on, like archery, he gives up without a second thought when simply asked to and doesn’t think back on with regret, resentment or any emotion at all. He’s also almost never unhappy. He doesn’t react at all when he’s being hurt, insulted or otherwise abused, for instance by Shinji - and I don’t mean he restrains himself very well, the abuse just doesn’t register as any kind of emotional stimulus he should respond to to any extent. Shirou simply does not feel anything about almost anything that concerns him directly. The only thing he feels good about is helping people.
The core thing to understand here is that this is not a matter of moral fiber. Shirou is not a good person - if anything he’s deeply selfish. Shirou is clinically insane. He has a completely externalized set of priorities. He doesn’t decide anything based on what it means to himself, only based on whether or not it helps other people. He doesn’t even value his own life at all except insofar as it can be used to benefit others. And it freaks people out a lot when they realize this: Rin is the obvious and explicit example in UBW, but Shinji, for instance, was once a really good friend to Shirou, only to eventually grow genuinely disturbed by how little Shirou valued himself and put distance between them because of it.
So essentially, the thing to remember is that Shirou wants to save everyone because saving everyone is the only thing he derives happiness and self-worth from, and his entire value system and worldview is based on that. Asking Shirou to not help, to not fight, to not risk his life for other people, is akin to asking the average person to walk off a cliff.
He does get better in the different FSN routes though, yes? I'm a bit confused, but from what I gather, your comment is about Shirou as he was before the war.
In the Fate ending, he gets the all-consuming love for Saber to bind him to something different. In UBW, he gets a reality check from Archer, and an anchor to that reality in the form of Rin. And in HW he has his core motivation slightly altered when he decides to put Sakura ahead of the rest of the world.
Also, I don't think clincally insane is the best way to describe him. That is a legal term ascribed to people who can't distinguish fantasy from reality. Shirou has very different motivations and emotional stimulae than other people, but he can clearly tell what is real and what isn't.
That’s why he’s so similar yet at the same time completely different from Kotomine Kirei, who only gets emotional stimuli from other people’s suffering
@@96ace96 yes you are right, i just use ‘clinically insane’ word because i haven't word about it. Heaven's feel in start only transferred her dream into sakura's happiness but he changes lot in heaven's feel. He can't help sakura to destroy world. Sakura's happiness is more important for him but it doesn't mean he totally disgrace. He also wants to protect fuyuki also because they can't live without world. He wants to protect sakura from her evil. His change can also be noticed during the fight of ‘nine lives blade works’. He promise berserker to protect illya also. He also didn't kill rin even though she tries to kill sakura. Shirou only protect her.
@@96ace96 yes he can easily tell what is wrong or right but during situations like someone is in danger. He completely lost his composure and logic and jumps to save that someone. The best example is when rin asks her why he tries to save illya. He gove the answer that he didn't know anything about reason. It is actually a big conversation in visual novel not like anime. Kirei is very similar to shirou. He also know what is right and wrong. He wants to become ‘good’ person but he can't able to become like this. They both tries to understand their existence. Fate shirou developed as a person. His ideology didn't change but his personality and his attachment toward his past also changed.
Ubw's shirou's development is actually quite big.
@@96ace96 Shirou of ubw understand that he's dream is not childish. It is just like we human think a utopian world where everyone can live happily but it is impossible. It doesn't mean we started to disregard this idea because it is not possible. We always try to make world like utopia even though we failed. It force us to improve and develop better world to live. It causes the best world possible to live. That's why shirou still follow it. Archer forget that due to his killings. He was able to make a better world for humankind. He will not succeed properly but he can save save most people possible.
In ubw, he realize the true nature of his personality that he just try to become hero to copy that smile on kiritsugu. He is just a hollow like kirei who get pleasure by making other happy. He has not any morality. His morality is just made by his dream. But he wants to change that he wants to become hero so that he can create a better world for humans or undo the hell like that fire 10 years ago, not for some selfish needs. He accepts his personality but also create a goal in his mind that ‛he will create a situation where most of the people will be saved’, which is before only present for feeding his psychological need. That's the big picture that Archer lost. He was too fixated on the people he had to kill, he lost sight of his original goal. He pursued it because it found it beautiful to make everyone happy. It is not wrong to follow his dream if it has beautiful conclusion. Yes, he kill many people but he was able to make a better world for whole humanity. It is the development of shirou over archer that the ideal is not wrong, and that Archer has lost sight of the big picture (because fundamentally Emiya Shirou can only feel happiness by making other people happy, a fate where he saves the many by killing the few is tragic for him), in pursuing the borrowed ideal, he was able to save a lot of people. His work as a counter guardian saves millions, when CG are deployed, that means they have to deal with event that will cause massive catastrophe. Most of the time its human, because human are idiots. That's the tragedy of EMIYA. He has forgotten the reason why he pursued the ideal in the first place, and his conflict with his past self made him remember. From the start he was aware of the ideal's flaw, but as long as he finds the conclusion beautiful, there's nothing wrong with pursuing it. Nothing is perfect, and sometimes you have to give up your dream for something more important. But it doesn't mean that it is wrong. The improvement Shirou made over Archer is toning down his suicidal tendency, he's going to try his best, but he's not going to sign away his afterlife willy nilly like Archer foolishly did.
Because of his previous nature, he actually never try to save someone but only feed his psychological need by showing that he help someone. Therefore, he only tries his best to save everyone. He will never regret for anyone's death. He defines justice as everyone should have the opportunity to be happy. He will try to save everyone. He will try to create a opportunity. So that he can save everyone. But if he fails to save everyone. He will not regret for it. He always try to save everyone even in extreme case. If he can't save everyone. He tries to create a situation where he can save everyone. On the other hand Archer and kiritsugu tries to find a best way to save most people. If Shirou can't able to save everyone even with his tries. He will not regret for it.
Sorry for this ‘essay’.
"Shirou is not suicidal"
Archer: lol
That is pretty ironic, considering Archer knew if he killed his former self he would cease to exist. Maybe kid Shirou didn't necessarily have a "death wish", but by the time he's the Legend of Justice he welcomes ending his existence to escape from the hell he created for himself.
It makes the line from "The Dark Knight" All the more significant. "You either die a hero, or live long enough to be a villan." Shirou is a hero, but sees himself as a villan not living up to his own expectations by the time he enters the 5th Holy Grail War as Archer. That in itself adds a layer of depth to this series that makes it worth the watch.
@@JReaLBiz86 nah. he admits that it's impossible for him to die since he's outside the passage of time. He said he was taking out his anger on shirou
@@destinyblade1167 he wanted to prevent him from coming archer too he didn't want him to go down the same path
@@JReaLBiz86 archer already exists in the throne of heroes, he explains that killing Shirou wouldn’t cause him to cease to exist. It’s more of a revenge story
he's not suicidal, he just has survivorship guilt.
ReadTheVisualNovel: the Video
Not even wrong.
@Not so Wealthy Gamer thanks for BLESSING me with H scenes
@@nada2663 thanks for BLURSING me with H scenes
@Not so Wealthy Gamer You know the Realta Nua version removes the H scenes right? also has an extra ending
@Not so Wealthy Gamer there is also a version with the h scenes modded back in as well, that's probably the one you found. Not sure if it's a setting you can change.... I would head over to beast's lair forums and see if someone there knows how to remove them if it's important to you.
Shirou is a key example of why people who have experienced traumatic events should get therapy
Ah yes therapy, a strange and foreign concept to most Asian countries.
Him and Shinji Ikari.
@@azechase6597 Unfortunately true, and the reasons range from faith to family image
wait
I thought they had senzu beans for that
@@Koorosm hol' up, senzu beans heal trauma?
I liked Shirou, without even reading the source material.
Even after saber got shanked because of him making her stand still with a command seal
@@angelolawton965 It really didn't make sense with his whole desire to save people. He was willing to trade one life for another and empower a serial killer to kill alot more people(as far as he knew). Those aren't the actions of a hero but an idiot or a monster, who refused to even look for any other options or trust his allies.(seriously, the very next moment in the scene we see saber cut the wires Tagai was being held with. If he had just let her do her thing she would have been fine and they would have just needed to stall until archer showed up.
All throughout the anime I was bugged by the fact that Shiro is so inflexible in everything about his beliefs, that he buys needing to not save people to save others when he is living proof that you don't need to. Kiritsugu didn't kill anyone to dig a child out of the rubble of a disaster. If what he cared about was helping people than he should have focused on disaster relief, curing diseases, trying to change society so that the issues that cuase war and suffering could be mitigated. On top of that he could have an actual life and other things to live for so that his ideals don't consume and destroy him like archer.
I kept waiting for the anime to have him realize any of this but he never does and it made the entire thing feel stupid and even ruined some of the final fights for me as they felt empty.
@@joelsasmad You mean when he decides to trade Saber for Taiga? One of the things I definitely hate about the anime is how unimportant she seems to Shirou up until that point, she's literaly the main reason why he is not a *completely* menatlly broken individual, she was the closest family he had during the years after Kiritsugu's passing and she only could help him as a sister, never fulfiing the role of an adult.
Still, she is the most important for Shirou, and the thing is that Shirou strives to be a hero, and he probably would sacrifice himself in order to save others, but he does have his priorities in the end even he doesn't like to admit it and is those who are close to him, because in the end he is in great part a selfish individual and actually a really fleshed out character, a person with things that he like to do and hate that depending of the circumstances and his current understanding and capacities is forced to confront a reality that defies what he is, what he wants to be, what he chooses to be and the part of himself that he can't seem to control, without the understanding of those things many moments in the story aren't that meaningful. He CAN sacrifice the ones he truly love in order to serve the... "Greater Good", but he's so destroyed in the inside that doing so would kill most part of his own humanity and the remains of his self.worth *cough* Mind of Steel eniding *cough*.
One thing about Stay Night is that the theme about heroism is not if it's good or bad, the focusing point is always Shirou and if HE should strive for said ideal due his current situation in every route but that¿s the thing about these adaptations: The Story IS sbout Shirou Emiya, you adapt him poorly, the story is adapted poorly; and no good flashy animation can change that, UBW in that sense is pretty superficial, bad adaptation in it's worse moments and quite good at times making good parallels, but it doesn't hold on it's own as a story unlike the OG Route.
My turning point when i liked shirou was when i forgot her name girl confronted shirou about the joke she made and that he didnt laugh
@@Fenrishidishi You mean where Ayako told him that he never smiles and he has a mini-ptsd flashback?
Seeing modern fate fan thinking he's shit because he's not "cool" as kiritsugu hurts me so much
While I love Kiritsugu's character, it's troubling to see him used as a way to diminish Shirou, it makes me feel as if people don't get either of them.
If you think kiritsugu is "cool" you've completely missed the point.
@@r.k845 I don't
@@MrThecrazyzombie never said you did. It was a general statement.
Well, you can blame the way the anime adaptation of UBW missed the mark on him, not on how well Zero portrayed Kiritsugu.
I can never get enough breakdowns of Emiya Shirou's psychology and survival guilt. It's so unique and a crutch for his ideals. It's just so fascinating how natsu made such a creative, real and tangible person. Also, awesome presentation man
Thank you! I didn't aim for this to be specifically a breakdown on Shirou, but rather a demonstration of how the removing of certain aspects of his characterization affected him in the anime adaptation. Had I done a more straightforward character analysis the video would no doubt be much longer.
Shintai my apologies your message was clear nonetheless. When you started pulling references from the absence of the anime portraying that psychology I got excited...but yes anime only watchers would definitely miss this and think of him what he delivers face value.
I believe from seeing Heavens Feel they add more self narration. Which I believe is equivalent to spiderman and how he talks to himself. Again great video!!
I luv shirou the hero
I am glad you enjoyed the video, I like Shirou's character a lot and I think it's a monumental shame that he has gone so long, so thoroughly misunderstood by the anime community at large. I am glad my video has already helped people appreciate his character more than they did before.
The inner monologues can obviously clarify logic, but I feel ufotable and even studio Deen still conveyed his personality to me. I feel those who misunderstand Shirou are missing more subtle clues that the VN is more blunt about.
OtakuDaiKun Dub or Sub?
madestmadhatter I've seen both but since the VA's change in English the Japanese voice is more consistent.
OtakuDaiKun I'm working under a belief that the English VA for unlimited blade works is responsible for the interpretation stated in the video, as I feel his voice makes a character sound whiney, even if his actions argue the opposite.
madestmadhatter I see. I can understand that though I like the dub.
OtakuDaiKun yeah, and he's not a bad VA either, it's only when a character starts yelling that he really falters.
Tl:dr Shirou is a tsundere.
Edit: Huh. Didn't think my throw away comment would become my most liked one.
Rin and Shirou are a match made in heaven then.
Of course. UBW is the Archer route after all.
You guys have no idea, it's super clear in his interactions with Rin in Fate Hollow Ataraxia.
the subtlest tsundere ever!
@Insidious no it’s not. The ‘Archer’ route isn’t from any of the three Fate/Stay routes. It’s from its own separate route where Illya was the heroine instead of Saber, Rin, or Sakura.
His Survivors Guilt really does play a part into why Archer became so bitter.
He wanted to save others as a way of making up for the lives he couldn't save in the fire. He became Counter Guardian because he thought he was given the power to save more lives, but he ended realizing that he has now killed far more people than the fire ever did.
On a different note though, there are alot of things that relates Shirou to Archer that only works in a Visual Novel... Both are actually prone to shit talking, its just that Shirou's words go through a "good guy" filter between his brain and mouth, Archer just lets the insults fly.
There was a line in Shirou's mind "I've yet to make tea that satisfies Tohsaka" which I just can't help but laugh a little when remembering Archer's small huff of pride when Rin praised his tea.
Remember how Shirou's entire left side went haywire after using projection magic? Take a look at Archer's sprites and you'll notice that his left hand is tensed or clenched.
There's a moment where Shirou "gestures to Tohsaka to 'go to hell'", which Archer apparently still remembers as he does the exact same thing when he begrudgingly goes to clean up.
There's also two scenes that were removed from the anime and I really wonder why.
First is the scene of Archer returning Rin's pendant. After hearing that its a family heirloom, Archer very hurriedly takes out the pendant of his timeline and gives it to Tohsaka saying "You don't have to be that strong." Aside from it being strangely out of character for Archer, its something which Shirou says to Rin later on.
Another is Rin repairing Shirou's window. Its a minor one but Rin reparing a hole Shirou's house on her first visit? Guess what Archer did as his first "job" at Rin's Mansion...
I distinctly remember Archer in the UBW whipping out the Pendant when Tohsaka claims she lost it
@@mattyhowls Yeah Archer Returned it in the show they didn't fuck up that hard its just that they didn't show the opposite where Shirou specifically brings the pendant home in the VN
I believe the issue people have with him as a character stemns from the fact that the anime atempted to communicate Shirou's inner conflicts through subtle visual nods, but people didn't pick on that due to multiple factors, and even if they did, they still couldn't understand that he's a fundamentally broken individual, clinging on to a borrowed ideal that brings forth his warped and contradictory path of becoming a hero of justice, something the Heaven's feel adaptations thus far, had a much easier time given the context of that entire arc.
I was just about to comment on that. I always thought Shirou was off. But even then I didn’t know he kept putting himself in harm’s way because he felt guilty about being protected, and not just out of a lack of self worth.
They really were too subtle for their own good.
Agreed but they could have put some of his monologue on how he doesn't want to endanger Archer during Caster fight. They did this with Shirou's thoughts on the twin swords.
Just rewatched deens fate, zero and ubw. I agree but I think part of why ufotable subtle with some aspects with Shirou's character was they likely assumed people had already seen the deen anime.
There was heaps of subtle visual queues they did in the series, one that stood out was when they first meet Ilya Sabers visual realization that she was Iri and Kiritsugu's daughter
Since Fate Stay Night was a visual novel so much characterization occurs through thought which is never really explored in anime. Good job on giving insight on what source material Shirou is really like.
The Iron Giant "I am not a gun"
Shirou "I am a sword"
Kiritsugu "I am a gun"
I never noticed that
Groot:"I am Groot"
For his neutral special, he wields a GUN.
When Shirou finally learns the proper way to use his magic circuits his 'switch' as puts it is to put the barrel of a revolver in his mouth, prepare the hammer and fire the weapon at himself
Gun... Magic?
Also it is stupid how they fawn over archer and shit on shiro, when archer is just a bitter shirou
bitter=edgy=better to angsty teenagers
Where does that leave EMIYA Alter
The thing is that in the adaptations, while Shirou is poorly handled, Archer was well adapted in the animated format.
Not just that in the Fate and Heaven's Feel route he's a badass, but in the UBW (In the anime at least) he's arguably the best character.
Unlike Shirou, we can see and comprehend Archer's actions and motives. I didn't play the Visual Novel yet, but I think that this is because we don't need inner monologues to understand him in the VN. If that's the case, then Archer is much easier to adapt into an animated format, while Shirou proves quite hard.
@@glitchedknights323 in the trash where he belongs.
Well I like archer more than shirou for simple reasons. Shirou is a deconstruction of a hero. Deconstructions oF characters are well written but not written to be liked. Archer isn’t a deconstruction but a result of the deconstruction. It’s more relatable to like the Result then the actual Deconstructions. However this isn’t a hard and fast rule, but I believe it works in this scenario.
One my favorite protagonist characters yet so misunderstood it's stupid. Shirou can't live a normal life, he more soldier if you think about.
I swear I hate how they don't show more of his character.
Thanks for the video bro. Also is shirou more anti hero than hero.
A lot of it comes from Nasu's writing style. He's extremely heavy on two things: exposition and inner monologue. So much of Shirou's character is delivered to the reader through Shirou's thoughts. If you subtract the inner monologue from the visual novel, then i don't think its exaggerating to say that you'd be subtracting 50-60% of the story.
Most of Nasu's works are like that. Tsukihime, Fate/Extra, KnK. However, the 'show dont tell' method of Ufotables anime (don't even get me started on DEENs anime) kind of takes a significant portion of the depth of the stories out of them. It ends up turning a deep character study into survivors guilt and a deconstruction of heroism and shonen tropes and turns it into something that focuses much more on the 'awe-factor' of heroes fighting each other. Something much more... shonen.
That's why, i think, alot less of Shirou's character came to the fore-front in the anime when compared to say.... Kiritsugu. If Urobuchi is a better writer than Nasu is debatable... but Uro's style of writing is considerably more 'show-don't-tell' than Nasu's.... having his characters experience the effects of their personalities rather than 'ponder it forever' as Archer puts it.
Krescentwolf
While the show and don't tell may work for some characters like kiritsugu it doesn't work with shirou however I will say it will work with him if given proper excution, thats one of the prombles with the anmie addaptation is that shirou is poorly exacuted.
Not only that what adds more to prombles is Fate/zero die hards or anmie secondaries and those are the ones that make want to climb though your phone and punch them, there either hypocrites or have one sided opinions aside from that.
Not only that but shirou does go against most of the shouen trops.
Shirou is more of a realistic character but with shattered mindset and his inner clash with realism and idealism and this cause further complications in his life.
I actually feel like FSN light novel portrays Shirou as such a stupid/ stubborn/ sexist/ man dominent superior complex character I've seen in quite some time.
He's the type of character who get a boner even in the most dire situation because Saber is touching him... (I'm like WTF)
The anime in UBW actually "fix" Shirou as a character because all of his stupid action and sexist comments are skipped and only his "cool side" is showcase in the UBW adaptation.
And yes, I finished the VN version already, as well as watched both UBW and Heaven's Feel anime/ movie, and I think I dislike Shirou even more after playing the VN.
I were more neutral toward Shirou before I play the VN, but once I see all his monologues and unnecessary pandering/ getting horny every 5 secs/ make sexist comments every 10 sentences, I actively dislike Shirou now. I swear UFO anime studio notice how disgustingly sexist/ horny Shirou is in the VN that they literally remove almost all of them in the anime.
Ventus S
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂.Lol the fact that you made this Iong i laughed for some time power of asshole eroge protagonist is strong. 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😊😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 oh by the way boner intensefies.
Well, he even got a boner on Illeya in the VN when she's sitting on him despite he's on the brink of being killed.
I recently finished VN so it's still fresh in my memory.
Amazing video man! Emiya Shirou is my favourite fictional character of all time. I just finished the Realta Nua VN recently (all 3 routes) and I think the monologues for Shirou's character give readers more of an understanding of his character and how much of a broken individual he really is. I personally really liked Shirou as a character ever since I watched Ufotable's UBW anime, but the VN solidified him as my personal favourite character. The way his character was depicted in the Heaven's Feel route is insane, not going to spoil it for those who haven't experienced that route though :) Anyway fantastic video Shintai, its cool to see Fate content on UA-cam as its a franchise that's not really talked about all that much, which is unfortunate because its AMAZING (And it's my favourite franchise XD) :D
I am glad you enjoyed the video! It's good to hear that the UBW anime inspired you to read the VN. Some people just watch the anime and think that's all there is to it, which is a shame since the VN adds so much more to the experience.
I agree, more people need to read the VN, there's so much more info provided in it :)
I really do agree on all points you have made about Shirou, despite me having only watched the anime and not the visual novel yet. It really irritates me when he is likened to other characters, like luffy and naruto, when yes, they all share the "Protect everyone/the world" but Shirou took it to the extreme and acted like a machine which showed how broken he was but at the same time admirable.
It wasn't a stupid reason such as "because I'm the protagonist and nakama power(looking at Fairy Tail mostly)" that all shonen protagonist seem to automatically say and do. But in Shirou's case it was very simple, because he saw it as a beautiful thing to do but also knows the limits to it but keeps on striving for that outcome. And we all know how EMIYA ended up in life, which proves that good intentions does not mean a happy fairy tale life.
Anyways, sorry about this long paragraph that you already know but you reminded me why UBW Shirou and EMIYA are both my favorite main characters in all of anime.
Also is there any place to download the VN so that I can read on heavens feel or to watch the movie?
Thanks man.
where can i find the VN
Finally, someone covered this topic in an easier way instead of just having to type out paragraphs about the differences.
I applaud you for the effort.
Hah, I am glad you liked it.
I hope ufotable does a fate route adaption....the VN gives so much more perspective into shirou's thoughts that u can not do in an anime adaption, but i think a better adaption than DEEN stay night nontheless would give people better feelings about Fate Shirou
You're like in every Fate video I have watched...like, damn you're everywhere.
Agree. people bash Fate route even tough they didn't properly experienced it unless they played the VN. Deen adaptation was a mess.
MrInuhanyou123 i like seeing u in all Type-Moon vids i visit :3
not really, even among VN readers, fate route is often ranked as the lowest and weakest. seeing it with shirou's perspective wont change much, it is the most straightforward and basic of the routes with a story that you can find in a ton of shounen series. fate route is also the only route in the VN that just has one ending unlike the other routes that get two endings.
Thank you so much for this video. Shirou is very misunderstood by a lot of people, and while it's understandable that not everyone would be a fan of him, I almost always get the view that people misunderstood him and aren't willing to dig deeper to why his character was the way it is in the first place, which is understandable. The anime adaptations in general cut a lot of stuff out by not having monologue, as Nasu's writing style with his VN basically portrays everything the characters think in their mind, which pretty much makes up half of the text. Your video perfectly encapsulates a lot of what makes Shirou an amazing character in my book, so good job.
ExtremeSManpig
So, Nasu's writing style is kinda like Nishioishin with Araragi?
I haven't read Monogatari LN's so I can't compare directly, but judging from the anime's constant monologues characterising him, I'd say it's similar.
I just finished the entire fate series but I just can't like shirou, sorry. He is not a worthy protagonist at least for me
@@ayanamirei4845 Well, everyone have their own opnions. Shirou will always be the number 1 MC for the majority of people in Fate Series.
I never once thought of him as stupid. Personally, I see him for what he a guy with a SEVERE case of Survivor's Guilt and PTSD from the fire. His character is the most realistic in the series.
I usually viewed Shirou as the representation of the purest form of justice because what he went through.
using the different routes as vehicles to explore that justice and develop him as a character, in fate he becomes a hero of justice, unlimed blade works he becomes a hero of justice with more wisdom behind his ideal and heavens feel he drops the hero of justice and become a hero who protects those he cares about ,and nothing else really notable character wise.
Yeah, that's not what Shirou is actually supposed to be about, he's more of a commentary on shounen protagonists.
In Oath Under Snow he becomes the ultimate onii-chan
It breaks your heart when you play or watch the series simultaneously. Looking at shirou so broken that he shattered his own ideal at HF is heartbreaking for me
@@cain2280 i dont consider that he broke exactly his ideal on HF, but changed its direction, despite what he thinks, he does become a hero solving the issue of the war and the countless victims the shadow produced and save the person he loved, its a different direction compared to the other routes, and despite that, it has the more "happier" ending, as fate route shirou is the closest to EMIYA, is one that in one wrong turn will become the EMIYA that sits on the Throne of heroes, while the one in UBW accepts that destiny and embraces it fully, having the core of that ideal hero of justice he had, HF shirou has a less broad ending and more of a closed one, sacrificing sakura in HF would been against his own ideals too,so all 3 come close to what we call emiya shirou
@@HaxeRain Nasu says that none of the 3 Shirou's are likely to become Archer, despite Fate route being closest to Archer's timeline. This is because the variables were not the same. Archer didnt go through any of the same things the 3 FSN Shirou's did. You can consider each route actual characterization for Shirou starting at the beginning of the war and ending and the end. Shirou finds his own reason to exist in each route, but emiya shirou cannot live without pain to himself or living for others. All that matters is the decisions that he makes are done with his own will and for a substantive reason.
Fate route is Shirou honoring Arturia's memory, cementing his hero of justice ideal that he comes to learn the truth of later but still follow with her in his heart(because it was not completing the ideal he was searching for)
UBW is proving Archer wrong about said ideal and acknowledging its flaws straight out much earlier than Fate route and UBW
And HF is Shirou disregarding the ideal because it conflicts with the reality that he chose to lead with Sakura.
My favorite is actually fate route because SHirou's growth is more subtle, having to overcome his PTSD from the fire when Kotomine makes him confront it, and unconsciously aknowledge his own flaws when he is trying to protect and save Arturia from her fate, as she has already been going through what Archer did and was warning him and her both about. Last episode is at the end of the story because fate route shirou, despite not actually going through the extreme shifts in world view the other routes do, clearly has to learn about all of that over the course of his life when confronted with hard choices he cant settle with determination alone, but that's also how young people transition into adults normally
I met Emiya Shirou in UBW, without any prior knowledge about him at all. Boom -- instant connection. I did catch UBW's clear hints at Shirou's survivor's guilt, as well as the other aspects covered in this video... yet peaking at his thoughts during the date (5:27) is just devastating. It is absolutely heartbreaking, even if we already knew this was going on inside him... It's just that much more real and ubiquitous, and it just crushes my heart.
My introduction to the fate series was through UBW abridged by Project Mouthwash. Loved it and decided to check the real thing but was kinda confused where to start. I watched Fate Zero, FSN 2006, and UBW anime. I enjoyed them for the most part but wasn't completely sold.
So a few days ago I finally decided to visual novel and boy am I GLAD I did!!!! Such rich characters and world and by god are the fight scenes hype to read ESPECIALLY when the bomb ass soundtrack plays. Loved it!!!! I am currently close to ending the UBW route and I am enjoying it quite a lot.
Shirou is a much deeper character than I expected.
Gonna wait to finish the HF route before I even touch the movies.
Hats off to Nasu for writing such a gripping story and characters.
To anyone who wants to get into the fate series, I would thoroughly recommend the Visuap Novel as the starting point. Trust me its well worth the time investment :)
Know where I can read the visual novels?
@@kedimendez8452 Here is a helpful guide www.reddit.com/r/fatestaynight/comments/7qh6ho/fatestay_night_vn_installation_guide_vii/
@Kumagawa Misogi Here is a helpful guide www.reddit.com/r/fatestaynight/comments/7qh6ho/fatestay_night_vn_installation_guide_vii/
The problem of thought monologues being left out of anime adaptations is incredibly common which becomes quickly apparent if you read any light novels and compare them with their anime counterparts. Anime consistently poorly portays the inner thoughts of characters or just doesn't at all leading to creating almost COMPLETELY different characters for the adaptation.
This was a greatly insightful video that helped me put into words what i thought about shirou but couldn't quite place my finger on and also shed some good light on the source material that makes it more apparent, great video.
The thing about adaptations is that they are supposed to follow the rule of "show, don't tell", while books and anything that isn't visual have to do the opposite. But that being said, there is a way around it for adaptations. Instead of saying that Shirou has survivor's guilt or struggles with letting himself be happy or letting anyone save him, show him be happy only to be saddened and try to distance himself. Show him having nightmares to the fire or visiting the site of where he was found. That is where the anime fail. They failed to adapt these core traits of Shirou through visual story-telling.
You’re quite a lot of visual medium. It’s not like we could just have Shirou stand around for like 7 minutes having nothing inner monologues.
It's even worse now that a lot of people's first experience with Fate, is FGO.
Dont remind me
i saw someone say that fujimaru ritsuka is a better mc than kiritsugu and shirou. What the hell is wrong with those people
I mean that's ok but if someone sees FGO as a whole lot better than FSN, well that's just plain retarded at this point.
Even more worse someone said that gudako is better character than gudao, dude they are literally same person just with different gender. Just say you want cute anime girl as mc is not that hard.
@@pablo9234 I may like fgo more but ritsuka is literally a self-insert character.... well that makes more sense actually
Perfect video
...
Honestly I understood Shirou’s character very well through the anime and I think it was subtle things that you kinda have to look more into. I understood his survivors guilt very well and I was able to pick up on it and understand his character simply by facial expression and subtle word choices. He and the heroic spirit Emiya are two of my favorite characters even before I knew of their connection.
I've always loved Shirou's character. For me he was always a more realistic style of hero in a way. It was like the writer looked at a standard shounen hero and thought "now how to make this a believable character..."
The result, a twisted mess of a man, which makes him more interesting and dynamic than one would normally get, especially in the Heavens Feel route where we get to see his gradual shift in mentality to something incrementally closer to a recognisable norm
Can totally feel this, first time I watched the anime without any knowledge I hated Shirou, he was helpless idiot that couldn't stand to watch, inmature with the classic cliche that "I'm an anime protagonist, I'm kind, wanna save everyone, have all the girls but I can't do shit by my own".
I re watched the UBW anime and could feel Shirou as a character a little more.
Now after playing the visual novel he has become one of my favorite characters of all time, not only from anime. The will to keep fighting for his ideal, in Shirou's words, "even if he's not able to reach it, he will endlessly keep fighting for it."
XD Whoa this video came out of nowhere, but it's great to inform people who haven't read the visual novel.
I read the VN prior to watching the anime adaptations and felt a pretty big disconnect between the two Shirou's.
It really sucks; the anime has slick action scenes while the VN provides very intimate experiences with the characters. I wish I could have both!
It's a shame since people who watch the anime just assume Shirou is a bad character, not realizing there's a lot more to him.
I know how you feel. The anime adaptation of the Shirou vs Archer fight was great, but the emotional impact of The Answer scene from the visual novel was amazing.
Shintai Maybe Ufo can prove us wrong with the 2 remaining movies of HF. For now we can only cross our fingers and hope
I suffer from survival's guilt so i understand this. thanks for explaining it to everyone.
Machine Master if you don’t mind me asking, what happened. You don’t have to answer but just curious.
@@sammyc1842 My cousin took my place in a tragic incident and ordered me to live for him.
Machine Master oh jeez. I’m so sorry to hear that.
@@nopeyoudontknowmyname9153 Live a long painful life, knowing that you will never truly be a good person, and that the rest of your life will be nothing but the endless pursuit of slight changes to your personality that will never satisfy your egotistical view of yourself.
Dude I feel you. I went to therapy for God knows how many years and I still have issues with people giving me a hand.
The thing about ufo adaptation that pisses me off the most is that they left out the fact that Kiritsugu dies right after Shirou promised to fulfill his dream in his stread which would've made people sympathize with Shirou a tee bit more as to why he's so crazy over his stupid ideal.
I used to feel all these things about Shirou. It wasn't till VN readers informed me of the kind of character he's supposed to be, and watching UBW and later fates has made him one of my favorite characters ever.
Really though, after reading through the VN, I'm really glad I listened to people in that regard. It really made me realize more about Shirou's character and make me symphatize with his character. I can understand people who hate him, but not those who hate him for the wrong reason.
Honestly I admired Shirou Emiya so much and many people think badly about him because they didn't understand him so I thank you for this review
Well i'm one of those who doesnt like shirou
@@ayanamirei4845 then why are you here?
Shirou is my favorite character and Unlimited Blade Works is my favorite route. Always has been. I feel like it's the story where Shirou overcomes himself and grows not only as a person, but as a hero. Being able to acknowledge that weakness and turn it into a strength and become more than you were before is, I feel, the mark of a true hero. And the fact that Tohsaka is able to stick with him even after some of the reckless things he does, not only shows how much she cares, but that she understands on some level that the things that made him the way he is were completely out of his control and she accepts him for who he is regardless of it.
As a huge fan of the VN, I am very glad this video exists to inform anime only fans of what the anime could not practically show them.
Most people would say Legolas, but Shirou and Archer are why I got into archery. Yeah, Archer's cool and badass, but Shirou's admiration of his skills just kind of got into me and led me to practice.
Shirou is so interesting cause of how he contrast to his predecessor Kiritsugu, his similarity with Kirei, and his "successor" Avenger. He is by definition, all 3 of the things those man in a way admire.
Yep. Kiritsugu and archer both admire shirou for his values even if they disagree. Matthew and kirei as well are jealous of shirous purity. Its also what causes rin and sakura to fall for him and especially arturia who mirrors him in that purity
@@MrInuhanyou123 Doesn't make sense with "archer admires shirou" cause if you finished UBW then you know.
Shirou was extremely calm and level headed during UBW when Medusa used her bounded field.
Something even Tohsaka was incapable of doing.
In fact, we even see him not bat an eye when he focused on Sakura. When the bounded field was removed, Shirou actually felt like a machine.
So TL;DR Shirou has a survivor's guilt which warps his Altruism (his very essence) to the next level.
Also, I believe that if all three Shirous personality merge, I think the personality would be more "normal": he's optimistic about his ideal (Fate), knows its flaws yet strives for it (UBW), and knows how to be selfish for his loved ones (Heaven's Feel)
Thats basicly oath under snow Shirou he threw away his desire to be a hero of justice to save his younger sister Miyu eventhough doing so will doom his world as she's the holy grail of his world nescary to save a world runing out of mana. He said screw it I know the consquences but I love my sister and I wont let you sacrifice her just to save the world.
Demi-Fiend of Time He still doesn't have his ideal, ya know? He's more like a siscon Heaven's Feel!Shirou in that regard.
@@chromosaur2560 oath under snow shirou is like someone wrote a bad fanfiction based on shirou and tried to out edge the original shirou and give him tons of over the top silly badass moments without understanding the core thematic purpose of the original vn character.
while also giving him a silly original character sister to dote over and put his entire life into for some reason to give any kind of context to his actions as a weird hf clone
Oh wait, i just decribed the reality of things
I love stories involving characters suffering through survivor's guilt. Tales that immerse themselves in deep, philosophical questions about what it means to be a hero, the lines between selflessness and self-hatred/ duty and obsession, and the true nature of a person willing to sacrifice themselves for complete strangers while those that care for them suffer as a direct or indirect consequence of their actions.
You can't help but feel both admiration and pity for such characters, because in front of you stands someone who undoubtedly deserves to be happy and to be at peace-- and yet can't be, because they won't allow it for themselves. Hell even the character I have in my avatar is an example of one such person, very similar to Shirou in that regard (though a bit more emotionally standoffish and broken).
17:22 Get yourself a man who loves you as much as Shirou loves Archer's swords.
As someone who went into the anime from the VN who has tried to explain why shirou is a good character to my friend I thank you now I have a video I can point them at
Here's a list of things anime only's don't know about shirou:
Shirou is mentally disabled, he has survivor's guilt.
Shirou is "sexist" in the fate route because he'd rather himself be in danger then artoria,
Shirou doesn't like archer in the beginning of UBW because he feels like a burden to him, blaming himself for anything that bad happens.
Shirou is aware of that he is a bit delusional (as mentioned before), and when tohsaka confronts him about it in UBW, he both agreed and disagreed with everything she said, which is why he looked so confused and disturbed in the anime.
The reason why when he fought archer and the sky went cleared was because he finally fully understood UBW from paying attention to archer's actions, he took control over it. It returned to a sunset when he fought gilgamesh because the red shows the rage he felt when he remembered illya's death, the yellow shows his happiness that he finally was able to make the world of his dreams to become an ally of justice/a hero of justice.
Sexist? How is that sexism???
@@wetbread4243 dude do you know what does " mean
maybe I just notice more details, but I've always known that, even though I'm an anime only. so when he said that anime only people think of him as reckless and stubborn, I was genuinely suprised
That's not being sexist....
@@heaven.3031 thus the quote marks around the word sexist
Many, many thanks to you for making this video. I feel like many misunderstood Shirou and put him into the cupboard with all the same "hero"-protagonists. And i really feel like you've showed those people that made this mistake, that they certainly can pull him out of there and set him on the display of those few, very unique characters created purely from ficiton.
I feel like especially Shirou contradicting himself and taking note of it is what makes him feel more "real" than most other characters.
This is the first time I've been interested in a visual novel.
He's been my favorite character in fiction ever since I finished reading F/SN.
nice pfp.
The Heaven's Feel movie seems to be conveying his personality and inner thoughts quite a bit better through visuals alone. The sight of the burning Fuyuki that Shirou sees when Kirei brings up the fire, for example.
Oath Under Snow.
They are most certainly better directed that for sure.
I’m kinda late, but...
You know how people compare Kiritsugu and Shirou, calling the second one trash? Those guys totally didn’t try Heaven’s Feel route, the moment when you decide to let Sakura die, Shirou becomes Kiritsugu 2.0 and destroys the Holy Grail... and Type-Moon called it a bad end
I actually read the fate route in the VN before rewatching unlimited blade works and it just made me so much more invested in his character. I feel like I really didn't get him at all at first but afterwards I saw so much of myself in him. During the whole scene where Emiya is fighting archer and Last Stardust plays I legitimately started crying just with the power of the moment. At first I thought it was just cool but it was so much more resonant and powerful understanding his character. I definitely agree with you.
This is why i always says people need to watch fate stay night 1st no matter what and try to read the visual novel if possible before trying to watch fate/zero. Many people were overrating Emiya Kirritsugu's Ideals and actions and compared shirou to him, made many unfair and wrong judgement on both characters.
I feel like you did a pretty good job summarizing some of my thoughts of the anime adaption of the series, the main ones anyway, and how Shirou gets portrayed in them.
But really, this is a problem with many VN-to-anime adaptations in general. Trying to adapt what is basically a book's worth of text ("Fate/Stay Night" in particular has a text count greater than the "The Lord of the Rings" trilogy combined if I remember correctly) into a visual medium with a limited budget and time restrictions usually have notable issues to some degree. Add in stuff like how internal monologues usually gets removed and it gets even messier.
And that's not even getting into how the 3 routes of "Fate/Stay Night" were purposely set up to play off each other which makes adapting them properly that much more difficult in general. Like at the end of each route, Shirou ends up at different conclusions regarding his ideals due to the experiences he had in each particular route. Even if the adaptions were done perfectly, comparing and contrasting what would essentially be three full on 2-cour shows would be asking for too much out of most people.
I mean, no offence, but this is the same community that, still to this day, misquotes Shirou's "People die when they are killed" line despite how it makes complete sense in context.
Unfortunately, Shirou isn't the only aspect that tends to falter in these adaptations, Ufotable's adaptions especially. I've noticed several times of details getting changed or thrown out the window entirely just to make some action scenes look cooler but to the detriment of some world building or characters. Like how in the VN, Assassin never managed to utilize the full power of his Tsubame Gaeshi for a variety of reasons but the anime treats him like he did...several times.
Shinji in particular is another character in general that, while the hatred for him is at least justified since he is supposed to be unlikable, I feel like a lot of people completely miss or just don't understand the purpose of his characterization. Not helped with the adaptions making him progressively come off as being worse and worse. I'd even say he's probably even more misunderstood than Shirou is, but that's a different topic entirely.
But yeah, good job with the video.
"No offence, but this is teh same community that, still to this day, misquotes Shiru's "People die when they are killed" line despite how it makes sense in context"
I am not sure why I would take offense to that, but the actual problem is that the line is a mistranslation that turned into a meme. Shirou never actually says it like that, there has been some revisionist history going on where the joke has become a twisted reality.
Either way I am glad you liked the video, it looked like you were able to get some frustrations off your chest with this comment.
I didn't mean offence towards you in particular, but more that I was being snide by talking down about others to make a point, which isn't something you really should do in any kind of discussion as it's pretty unprofessional.
And yeah, I know that it's not a completely accurate translation, though I've also seen people say it is accurate but just less wordy so I don't know what the exact case is considering I can't speak or read Japanese myself. Nasu's writing style apparently isn't the easiest thing to translate so there's actually a couple instances of this. But regardless, it's still something that mostly makes sense in context but is constantly being taken out of context as part of a joke to devalue a character. That's all I meant.
The funny thing is, the mistranslation came from the 2006 Studio Deen adaptation, technically whoever mistranslated it didn't even mistransalte Nasu's writing itself but rather the anime version's which you would assume is probably a more streamlined interpretation of the text. Oh well I can't speak Japanese either so what the hell do I know? I do agree people tend to state it as a way of dismissing Shirou or Fate as a whole and it's just absurd. I remember one person used it to deride the character and when I corrected him, his response was "I know it's wrong, but I don't care, I am going to make fun of it anyways because Fate sucks" or something along those lines. I mean fair enough if you're not a fan, but if you're gonna make fun of it, why do so when you know the joke is inherently disingenuous? That sort of behaviour bothers me.
Ah yes, I remember being annoyed with the portrayal of the Assassin fights.
>VN: Assassin uses TG while on different elevation, technically making it only two strikes at the same time (hard to dodge, but possible); in second fight blocks Saber’s blow to put her in the right spot, but in return bends his sword slightly, leaving a hole in the technique
>anime: casualy gets in the right position and fires of full TG...too bad Saber rather easily dodges the supposed undodgeable attack; second fight same as the first, except now Saber just cuts him after dodging (I mean, what did he expect after that first time?)
It honestly feels like they were trying to make Saber look more badass...at the cost of other characters being a lot less threatening (similiar thing happens earlier with Berserker).
I know this is five years later, but another example of Ufotable changing things for no reason is the entirety of the Shirou vs Kirei fight in Heaven's Feel.
Finally someone standing up for Shirou! ☺Thank you!
It is really sad how people tend to judge and put labels on him too easily, not that I can blame then but its just too much sometimes.
I hope this video can get alot of views so at least even for a bit we can change some of the perspective that anime fans tend to think about Shirou.
Shirou deserves so much more credit than what he gets, if I help contribute even in a small way to helping people understand him better, than I've done what I set out to do.
Shintai is like the anonymous person who wrote that poem/verse about Shirou after his death (the same verse Servant Archer uses for his UBW). :D
This is amazing! I always hear about how detailed the VNs are, but never really thought that there was this much to take from it. Thanks man! :)
man I undesrtood shirou without no hwlp of the vn, it was obvious he was keeping to himself, and that is why he is one of my favorite characters, then I asked my friends, and they all had shallow interpretations of him.
16:35 "I love swords so much."
Nice Arcueid pic King
It's probably thanks to a lot of people who discredit Shirou's depth--even if it's understandable that they don't agree with Shirou's mentality--that Shirou never got the appreciation from the common audience that he deserved (shoutout Digibro).
I mean seriously, I struggle to think why him as a protag is so underrated. Considering how unrelatable yet sympathetic his character is, I can understand him not being popular, but for him not being given his due? Absolute travesty.
I’ve always loved Shirou as a protagonist and while yeah it’s a shame the inner thoughts you showed in the video weren’t in the anime with UFO had to work with I still think they did a admirable job. Still great video man.
Also what were your thoughts on the UBW dub?
I didn't watch the whole thing dubbed, but what I did see sounded decent.
I'd recommend it Tony Oliver did an amazing job dubbing it like Zero.
I wish they included at least some of Shirou's inner monologue. Having him speak over some of the fight scenes, maybe a still of who he's talking bout. It's doable in the medium, but it can be hard to do well.
AnimeWolf7 regarding his guilt, did Shirou ever learn that it was Kiritsugu’s fault? Cause I’m sure he’d have a different opinion of himself if he knew the truth.
Skyrogue
Yes he learns about what Kiritsugu did during the 4th war in Heaven's Feel thanks to Kirei. I'd say afterwords he views Kiritsugu similar to how he felt about Archer in UBW but I could be wrong about that.
The problem, I always felt, is that VN Shirou is a legit complex character, and none of the animes have had the depth to really do it justice, they've all been kinda shallow action series, when the original was borderline horror in a lot of ways.
I really hated him after watching UBW but now he's my 2nd favorite MC
@@spiralspural8806 whose your first
@@spiralspural8806 Who's your first? :D
@@spiralspural8806 I liked him since the start, but after reading the VN I liked him even more and he's now my 1st favorite MC.
I suffered from survivals guilt and it's actually kinda painful if you try and put shirou in your perspective just imagine looking at people dying around you and you survived and because of this they develop this trauma its basically saying in your head "Why did I survive? And "I am unworthy of this other people deserve happiness more than me" you just focus on him being a hero of justice and sometimes that's why people hate him it's hard to adapt this into anime and because he didn't said that much about it making it misunderstand shirou's character
Shirou is stupid I can't deny that since I was also stupid I lended a hand on everyone even if got beat up and because of this he's character portrays such a perfect copy of a person suffering from survivals guilt
Like I said the main reasons people hate him is because you cannot relate to him at all being a HERO OF JUSTICE you just forgot his trauma and just literally hated him for being a hero of justice like shirou said what's wrong with it when I was still suffering from it I watched fate stay night and I liked shirou's character for some reason I couldn't understand and now that I grew up and got a therapy it's all clear now
About shirou abandoning saber for taiga let me put you into decision would you want to put your somehow resembling familyinto danger for somebody you just met some few days ago? Literally people are so focused on it plus if you're talking about shirou's wish did you think he wanted to be in the holy gra war no heck no
So basically all the people who think Shirō is a bad Character are incapable of making basic inferences?
OR, they just cannot relate to him at all. I read Fate/Stay Night first, and couldn’t do it.
and because shirou is an idealist wich is very hard to relate to already.... i wouldnt be surprised if more people related to archer than shirou
@@heliosjollywolf9552 Damn yes! I just finished the goddamn VN yesterday and started UBW right away. He's a fucking bad character. An intolerable mc. As a long time enthusiast, I can say that this is the first time that an mc annoyed me as hell
realist here but idealism isn't the issue its the fact people simply have lost the ability to empathize with others no matter what. Hint just look at the atheist movement and their intolerable hate of anyone religious.
Another place to look into is politics and you can see this is rampant in all parties but is most prevalent in the so called progressives.
Simple selfishness taken to the extreme. But yup hit the nail on the head there archer is the selfish shiro.
I'd say the people who hate Shirou are just simply incapable to empathize with people who have different views from their own.
I used to be a Shirou hater back when I watched Fate Zero and UBW (Didn't watch dean anime, nor was heaven's feel out), but after watching Heaven's feel, as well as other anime where Shirou appear and character analysis and getting to know the character better, I became a Shirou simp, he is the best waifu in fate.
I discovered Shirou like this :
-Deen fate route adaptation
- VN
Then the rest
And I can’t understand who anyone would believe he is as described by “anime only”
I come back to this video occasionally to watch it. Great video man
Its weird that after years of people telling me to read the Fate Visual Novel, it never occurred to me that they were saying was: "Go read the Book."
I'm embarrassed to say that the concept never clicked for me until now.
Here's hoping you're inspired to try it out! If you can get past the questionable fan translation, the VN is pretty great.
I never understood why so many people hated him. As someone who has only seen the fate and ubw routes, I thought the ubw anime did an amazing job in portraying shirous character, and stapling his as one of my favorite anime characters
I never really noticed all the stuff that missing in the anime. After reading the VN my mind just filled it in.
Oh boy, it's both impressive and infuriating to see him dance around the big spoiler regarding Archer.
Hah! I wrote it so that even non-fans could watch it and follow along which would hopefully inspire them to get into Fate.
@@DanielSantosAnalysis I'd do my best to keep them away tbh. Getting people into Fate these days means your ultimate goal would be pushing them into gacha hell.
@@SonnyFRST Obviously that wasn't my intentions, I wanted people to get into the VN. It kind of bums me out to think that the gatcha game is what most people seem to know Fate for these days.
@@DanielSantosAnalysis Either that or them taking forever to wrap up the Heaven's Feel movies.
@@DanielSantosAnalysis Also, Visual Novels kinda suck (It's only when they're slapped on top of another genre, like with Ace Attorney, Danganronpa or Zero Escape, that they work, because then the lack of gameplay is remedied)
I always loved Shiro and Archer, now even more. Thanks for the video.
I watched the anime unlimited blade works, I diden't really see what he did as particularly stupid. In fact I admired him in a lot of ways to be honest and throughout unlimited blade works I was rooting for him and believing that he could do it.
I started out with Fate Zero and got introduced to Shiro through his dad and had an instant connection to him then and there. From there on in unlimited blade works I rooted for him and I could certainly tell he was badly effected by his youth.
Overall, not knowing most of this information, it was still pretty easy in my mind to understand Shiro, sympathize with him and believe in his ideals, which I did and was convinced entirely by the end that he was right.
Actually one of my favorite videos from you.
Great video and analysis of characters. I always find it intriguing how many people think Shirou is simply annoying, when he is one of my favorite character in the fate franchise, but you really managed to explain it in a way for everybody to understand how complex his psyche is.
To be honest, if I hadn't played the visual novel before I watched the anime, I'm not 100% certain I would have picked up on everything about Shirou and I might not have understood his character on the first time through.
And if I had misunderstood his character I probably wouldn't have watched UBW more than once.
So I can understand how people who only watched the adaptation could not like him. Because I understand his psychology I can appreciate and like his character despite his flaws. Shirou is one of my favorite characters BECAUSE I understand him.
So thanks for this video...I hope people who never played the VN will watch this and watch UBW again with a better understanding of him.
PS. Saber is #1 wifu
As usual great video. I haven't played the VN myself but I saw some playtgroughs and I agree with some of the points brought up on this video.
Only some? I thought I made a pretty solid case, hah.
Shintai Alright edit I agree with all the points made in this video.
D-d-d-d-do it !
Thank you for putting into concise and critical words what I've been telling people about Shirou, I've always thought that Shirou and Kiritsugu were on equal footing as protagonists of their own shows. Yet it's so hard to contextualise that contrast them against each other as they so SO different. So when I think which is the better protag I stop myself and say how different they are.
Went on a bit of a tangent but my point is people don't give the subtext of Shirou's actions enough thought, except for you, well done mate.
You're very welcome.
SleepingPhoenix Kiritsugu is not as broken as Shirou, Kiritsugu still have more human feelings on them, a man that wants to become a machine, Shirou is a machine that wants to become a man but a complex machine can't be fixed regardless.
Even though I only saw the anime and didn't play the visual novel, I actually feel like all you said managed to come through pretty well in the anime as subtext, While they never have Noriaki Sugiyama/Bryce Papenbrook say these lines, I feel the context and the prior scenes, the camerawork and the music all allow you to see into shirous mind and understand all this without needing the monologue. This is just my opinion though, I loved this video, I think it was very well made, thank you for making it
I'm glad you liked it :)
At least in the heavens feel adaptation they were able to understand his character.
I think he's a great mc even without reading the VN, but maybe that's because I knew about survivor's guilt before
おはよう将軍💙😺💙😺💙❤️🎸❣️❣️😺😺💜😺💜😺💙😺💜⚔️
Thank you for making this video. I love Shirou's character, and I see too many people just dismiss him without having even read the visual novel, where you actually get to see his true personality and thoughts.
10:17 JUST BECAUSE YOU'RE CORRECT DOESN'T MEAN YOU'RE RIGHT
........... I can't deny that when I wrote that in the script, I couldn't help but think of that line.
Let the memes be dreams
Lmao
People die when they are killed
I think most of the misunderstanding of shirou comes from the first adaptation that didn't delve into archers backstory. Since Archer is (SPOILERS) future shirou he has all of shirous self worth issue while also realizing that his ideals are childish and naive. Without the jaded future version explaining how in the end his ideals caused him more pain then simply dying like he always believed he should have that death just seems like the better option, the way he presents himself as stupid and naive.
To be fair to ufotable though, it _is_ pretty difficult to adapt stuff like that into anime without turning the whole thing into an exposition dump. And they did a much, much better job of portraying Shirou as a likable protagonist than Deen ever could. There, he's just an idiot.
Nine Flames It would have been sweet if they shoehorned in condensed narrations into the previews for the episodes, during the little montages. If they did it right, that'd be a neat way to incorporate something like that.
Or they could have used a Monogatari-esque style. You know, with actual text on the screen to show the character's inner thoughts. Either way, I'd imagine adapating anything written by Nasu into anime would be a challenge thanks to his particular style of writing. The Kara no Kyoukai adaptations suffer from many of the same problems touched on in this video: there is a distinct lack of exposition because most of the time only the spoken dialogue made it into the adaptation, which is why that series is so confusing if one watches it in chronological order.
Oddly enough, the only successful Shirou who got adapted in anime (Not counting Archer since he's always awesome) would be Miyuverse Shirou. I guess because they condensed his story in a way that him and Miyu are the focal point of the story. Also, he's basically the mixture of all 3 route but removed the needless exposition and executed perfect hence he's been one the fan's favorite Shirou that even comparable to Archer. You don't need tons of monologue to understand his struggle, you don't need a bunch of mana transfer or Romcom tropes to understand the familial love between Shirou and Miyu. I think making him more aware, smarter and more mature due to how his world works made his choice more relatable. We also follow his story since his childhood with Kiritsugu so it's easier for us to understand how much Kiritsugu influence on him. Not to mention by eliminating the harem (though Sakura was still there) and the much more interesting Servant, you can see how he shined as a standalone character.
Er, shirou has never had a harem. HA counts I guess. But he has never had a harem in any of the routes. Having a relationship with different people in entirely different timelines doesn't make a harem.
Huh? He indeed has a harem. For the Fate route, even it's on and off with saber, Rin and Sakura still had the hots for Shirou. UBW literally had an ending where Shirou had a threesome with Saber and Rin. Heaven's Feel was basically Rider, Sakura and Rin. Illyaverse Shirou got Illya, Kuro, Rin and Luvia. In what universe do you think Shirou is not a haremancer? Heck, even Carnival Phantasm made a exclusive episode about the Harem joke.
This was so good. I grew an admiration to Shirou and Archer thanks to you. Subbed
This is the problem with adaptations.
(This is going to be large, but first)
Nice video, this made it simpler for me to understand Shirou's character a bit more, after all, if you just watch the anime, you won't get his survivor's guilt and the way his ideal works with it until the very last episodes, where he fights Archer.
Now, to the point:
You just can't easily dapt into an anime, or a movie a character who inner monologues while narrating at the same time (Most of VNs characters case)
It losses sense with the sole question of, why would he be narrating if we can already see what's going on?
Maybe you can get in the script a small thought, but not the whole VN monologue, which on itself, would either not be enough, or would simply look and sound bad.
As an example, the fight between Archer and Assassin. They should have gone with Assassin just playing offensive while Archer played defense for the first trade, just to then give Shirou a face expression or his sight focusing onto Archer and giving a small inner thought like "His technique is..." before fainting, and probably proceeding with Assassin praising or making a remark into Archer's trained technique (despite being mostly improvised) "For an Archer servant, you're quite skilled with those swords of you"
It would probably look bad but it would give a small depth into Shirou's character.
As with the chapter of Tohsaka, Saber and Shirou hanging out, there's really small place to introduce his process thought. As ex, while he's having fun, he would make a small thought remarking on him just passing by that part of the city and never enjoying it's activities "So.. this is what I have been missing out all along?" just to then proceed to the end of the "date"
This, gives you 2 options on adaptations.
Or you either risk a failure an get in some small monologues
Or you don't include his inner monologues other than the key ones (Ex: Archer vs Shirou fight, once he realises about Archer's past).
Obviously, I am not a screen-writer. But that's the way I see things at least with this one.
i first got into the fate series back with the deen adaptation and i didn't think much of shirou at the time but after actually reading the VN shirou quickly became one of my favorite characters in fiction.
BOOM
That was sick
Thank you for this video, I feel like I should read the novel now and BOI I'm writing this at the end of the video and I hear some recognizable chillhop. I can remember the name of the track but yes, love this video even more now. Shout outs to you my man. Wavy stuff. I'll hit you with the sub c:
I've only watched UBW but I always liked Shirou and viewed him as such a complex and broken character, especially after the reveal of Archer's identity. Thanks to your video, now I understand him better and like him even more.
And this is why I tell prospective interested people to start with the Visual Novel, rather than any adaptation. The best way to understand a story and its characters is through the source material. It had been ages since I read the original, but I've always held it in high regard. I don't even remember any of those lines. But now I know why I liked the VN best. Thanks so much for this work!
most adaptations change the charachterisation depending on how the people who adapt it percive the charachter(allthough n this case nasu wrote the episodes so i don't know if he just forgot his own charachter) the umineko adaptation and higurashi adaptation do the same and have no idea how to handle their chaeachters and comes of as bad.To make things even worse they even took out important clues to help you solve the msyteries to the point even if you got the answer it would make no sense.I just wish some VNs would get a better adaptation than what they got.I also hope my favourite VN the house in fata morgana gets adapted some day to get more recognition(the same with rose guns days cause no one talks about that one)
I don't think Nasu forgot, he said his intention with the anime was show how Shirou's character appears to those that don't know what he's thinking. I mean, I kinda get that for him just re-treading the same ground in the exact same way would be boring but it had an adverse affect on the show.
Unpopular opinion:
Shirou is a more interesting protagonist then Kiritsugu.
I agree with you, Kiritsugu is a good character but Shirou is a game changer for me.
I mean most of the people who have read the VN agrees with you
I agree completely. Love the character of Kiritsugu (I see him more as a tragic and sad charcter rather than a cool/badass one) and what his presence means in both Fate/Stay Night and Zero to Shirou and Kirei. But Shiroudefinitely fascinated me as a character and has easily become one of my favorites. He's so easy to understand just by reading and so layered at the same time, there's a lot I can say and talk about him that it saddens me that many misunderstand him and don't even want to try to know him more.
Kiritsugu is interesting?? Nah. Infuriating? Yes. An "unusual" experienced assassin throwing tantrum in a war where the reward is the omnipotent wish?? Wtf?
@@cynt4416 I think you don't see whole zero series. In finale, he refuse to ask a wish because holy grail or more precisely angra mainya only show him the worst possible way of his wish. Kiritsugu understand grail was corrupted.
Anyone that hates on Shirou but hasn't played the VN doesn't even matter to me, tbh. Those inner monologues and so on are *needed* to understand the depth of Shirou's character. There is so much more to him than the various anime have shown.
Great video man, i really like it because from what i saw on the internet Shirou is a character that is very easy to misunderstand for those who only watched the anime and it does clarify a lot of things about him even if we focus on just one scene.
One thing i would like to point out is that in my opinion the moment where he looks at archer's swords 17:16 is not purely admiration for Archer, but also his nature as a sword incarnation working subconsciously. While it is true that he doesn't pay as much attention to berserkers axe-sword, its because it was prepared by the Einzbern together with the catalyst so it holds neither power nor history. Every time a noble phantasm appears it gets lots and lots of attention because it is subconsciously analyzed on sight.
love your content, bro. scrubbing through some of your older stuff, appreciate the work.