Mesa/Boogie Mark V 6L6 vs EL34 Tube Shootout Comparison
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- Опубліковано 19 лис 2010
- 6L6 vs EL34 Shootout in this Mesa/Boogie Mark V comparison video. Which has the best tone for you? Decide for yourself!
For tones we used Channel 1 - Fat Clean, Channel 2 - Mark I, and Channel 3 - Mark IV with a Suhr Standard. Our 1x12 Combo has a Celestion Vintage 30 speaker and we mic'ed it with a Shure KSM27 and Electrovoice Raven.
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www.haggertysmusic.com/shop/me...
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I gotta admit your camera quality was crisp for this being 10 years ago lol
13 now, lol
This is the way to do a comparison: very little talking up front; and NO talking, and quick edits during the demonstrations to permit direct comparisons. Well done. Other UA-cam testers take note!
Very nice. The quick switch between the two without much talking made this a very valuable video to be able to hear differences.
The differences between these two tube types is so minor that the EQ section of the amp is more than capable of making up the difference to give you whatever tone you want out of either of them. The only reason why people think EL34s sound dramatically different to 6L6GCs is because Marshall amps used EL34 and EL84 tubes for availability reasons, and Fender amps used 6L6GCs and 6V6GTs, because that's what was available more easily in the US.
The tonal differences between these two companies was entirely a result of the huge differences in preamp designs. If you want to know how much of a difference even a few minor changes can make in a preamp circuit, compare a Fender 5F6A Bassman, and an early Marshall JTM45 that used virtually the same circuit, with KT66 valves and a few component values changed. Then compare that Marshall with a later Marshall that changed the tubes to EL34s with the same transformer, and then compare an even later version with the "correct" transformer for EL34s. Each combination has it's own charm, which comes more from the interaction between the characteristic plate impedance of the tubes and the output transformer design that anything else.
There is about as much difference between a 6L6GC and an EL34 (or 6CA7) as there is between a 6L6GC and a KT66 in a different direction, which is to say, not much. Stop obsessing about tubes, pick the ones you like, and play your guitar.
Gemma Seymour the el 34 have a loose low end and loose low end is not something easily fixed with eq .
I’m sorry but when you’re only including Marshall and fender in the tube comparison you’re missing the point. Amps built around the el34 and el84 tubes have a tighter more midrange focused sound while 6l6 tubes have far more loose and bass focused sound. It’s why a peavey and Mesa cranked up to full high gain are preferred by guitar players with low tuning and 7 strings. While the bands that play the faster and tighter metal with traditional tuning almost all go for the el34 and el84 sound of tight mid range. The 6l6 provides the low tuned guitars more definition and sustain for long grinding notes that are meant to fill in space and rumble the ground. The normal tuned thrash and speed metal focused on playing fast needs a tight mid range sound that can capture each note and push it to the front of the stage and bite with every progression. The power tubes are so important because of how the project the sound. How they process and power the sound that will come out of the speakers. If your goal is to play Iron Maiden than a Mesa boogie or peavey isn’t going to sound good. If you want to play korn or cannibal corpse those songs won’t sound right on a Marshall or orange amp.
@@stevederp9801 that's right... What's more powertube difference is probably not in frequency response (this is really the result of signal distortion -compression)... Powertubes in guitar amp work in nonlinear point of operation. There is different compression, clipping and recovery which is not possible to equalize, because it is dynamic - happens in time domain. Different order of harmonics appear because of distortion and it emphesizes different frequencies. What's more even the same tubes in class a vs ab give more difference in sound than different tubes both in ab pushpull ;)
It doesn't matter how and why. The sounds are different. My favorite tones are a strat on a Mark with 6L6s and a LP on a Mark with EL34s. Swap them and you notice a serious difference in tone.
That's funny because 6L6 in EVH 5150III amp in the other video (Stay Metal Ray's video) sounds more midrangey than the EL34 that he put inside his EVH. The EL34 sounds more bassy which is usually the characteristic of the 6L6 according to the power tube fanatics. Maybe it is impossible to EQ but it is all depends on the circuits.
I would just like to say thank you for these excellent amp demonstrations. By far the best I've seen on the internet.
You absolutley do the best most informative videos on UA-cam. To my ears they sounded near identical. If I could pick up anything it's that the 6L6's sounded a little warmer and heartier, but it could be my imagination. Maybe if I was in that room with I could better tell a difference. Thanks for posting.
Just want to thank you guys for putting out very informative and helpful video's. Much appreciated!!
If you really want to hear the difference between 6L6 and EL34 valves, you must play the amp Master Volume on 10 so that the power amp is overdriving.
I used to walk from Trebleshooter to Haggerty’s as a teenager while mom shopped downtown for candles and stuff. Used to see Don a lot!
Cool video, thanks for taking the time to make this!
Really great video. Thanks for keeping it short!
One of the most useful videos on comparing these two types of tubes, thank you very much! This is also very important because the Mark 5 25 which has EL84's is out so if you like the 6l6 tubes better than the EL34's you should get the Mark 5 over the Mark 5 25.
The 6L6 tubes have a more open loose sound and the clean channel is where these tubes shine. I also found they don't break up as much as the EL34's. So for lead it does not have as much punch.
The EL34's offer a tighter sound, slightly smaller sounding especially on the clean channel. It breaks up better
Great comparison, the differences are a little subtle on the video but its definitely more noticeable in person.
I've been meaning to get some EL34's for my Mark IV.
Also, Jaws Of Life!! Nice!
Great comparison. You can actually hear the subtle differences.
I am really enjoying your Mesa Boogie videos. Very interesting!
That guitar and the player are as awesome as the demo! Fine work sir excellent!
Exactly what I was looking for. Thank you! From my ear, the clean channel with the 6L6 has a better bass response, everything else to too similar where such using the tone controls on the guitar can shape any difference. Just my take.
Very good comparison!
Just reinforces why I prefer 6L6's, interesting demo and thank you
Very professional comparison. Great player and handsome too.
@sonofmickel It's a pretty common practice to use two microphones on a guitar amp, and blend them together. The amp, speaker, and mic placement were not moved when swapping out tubes, and the mic levels were exactly the same.
Great video. Thanks for taking the time. I'm surprised how close they sound here. I've done this before and they sounded farther apart in my test. I'm an EL guy personally. I know 6L6 do cleans better, but I like the slight grit of an EL clean. Just has more character in my opinion.
I've tried many power tube combinations, my mark IV sounds with more cojones with 6L6's, but I can appreciate how the EL34's can suit some styles better
cool video. nice playing
Well done! 6L6 for sparkle and chime and EL34s for Crunch!
thanks for the great vid bro.
Glad I watched this. My rectifier tube in my Mark V blew and I was considering just switching all the power tubes out for EL34's. To my ears, there's barely a difference in the gain channels, and the clean channel (which I use quite often and which in my opinion is extremely underrated in this amp) sounds much better w/ the stock 6L6's. Thanks Dan!
Thanks for the demo. Helpful. :}
I'm planning to buy another Mark V for the EL34s and run both amps with the RJM Ultimate Gizmo. I can't wait!!!
Nice! There's a low mid bark sound and tighter low end in the EL34. The 6l6 sounds a bit more scooped and cleaner when compared.
I changed my 6L6's to JJ EL-34's and i couldn't be happier. I can't believe that it's the same MK V. I had a good friend of mine who happens to be a certified MESA tech install and mod my MK V-when I got it back, it has 11watts more power, the clarity and punch and elasticity of each channel has been magnified immensely.THE BEST AMPLIFIER DECISION I HAVE EVER MADE. I bought my MK V for it's versatility, but now it completely slaughters every other amplifier I have played since having it modded.
@m8lg8r In person I hear very little difference between power tubes in this particular amplifier, and part of the motivation for making this video was because of that. It just doesn't make a drastic difference, at least to my ears. I don't notice a particularly different "feel" either, and we absolutely had the amp cranked to get power tube coloration. With some amps power tube swapping makes a bigger difference... like the Rectifier.
@ManAliive Thanks for taking the time to watch! We try to film every Monday and post every Friday, so we are always looking for new ideas if you have any suggestions.
I liked the part you played Jaws of Life from Petrucci! Very nice!
IMO the 6L6 sound better clean, and the EL34 sound better overdriven.
That is why fender amps often sound better clean than Marshall and marshall sound better overdriven than fender
Depends whether you like your mids level or scooped.
Wanna have both? Just go to blackstar silverline 💪😁
@@mcfek7575 SRV played his clean in Marshalls and OD through Fenders
6L6's clean are AWESOME!
I would say the 6l6s gives you a fatter tone with more low end and the el34s gives you a bit less low-end thus making it a bit more mid-central. And the el34 is also a little, just a little bit more crunchy but seems to be a little less tight while the 6l6 gives you a tight low-end thus making the sound overall a bit more tight.
I prefer the 6l6s.
@littlephil23 Petrucci's solo album is just sick man! I need to buy the tab book so I can learn how to play this stuff correctly. I would love to knock out Damage Control, and Animate-Inanimate one of these days! Thanks for watching.
@ttosh001 I didn't notice a noise difference... but they were both loud and filmed at different times. What you hear on the recording will really tell the story. As far as playing goes, they really felt almost the same! I would say the EL34's have a slightly quicker, more urgent attack that responds faster to your picking.
Jaws of Life on 6-string. That's a new experience right there.
Thanks for the video. Just listened with good headphones, the difference on Ch.1 & 3 is very slight, although Ch.2 I could hear a bigger change. Now I've heard this, I'll just stick with the 6L6's as the difference isn't enough to warrant buying a second set of valves. I'll just use my Tube Screamer if I need a little bit extra.
Sisters is such a great song. Didn’t even care about the tube comparison after hearing that.
The EL34 is this comparison shown it slight more edgy and glassy. When playing 'clean ' music, IMO, the 6L6 is more toneful. For OD and hard rock, the EL34 sounds a bit more strident and forward.
I'm disappointed you couldn't find less descriptive adjectives. You'd be a great salesman but you said absolutely nothing.
Slightly fuller mid range with the EL34s, but very subtle. Good demo.
Good vid. Love the Mesa too. 6L6s sound like boosted EL34s to me.
@haggertysmusic I can't wait for his next solo album, he's supposedly been working on it for a while now (or so I've gathered from interviews)
Hopefully it comes out soon!
Nice video with quick changes. I couldn't really hear too much of a difference. Is there a difference in feel ? I'm guessing the amp was cranked high enough to get power tube saturation ?
@Acidrain1993 That guy has had so many classic boogie tones. We just finished filming the Mark IIC+ circuit on the Mark V, so I played the pull me under riff. It's a great feeling to just nail that kind of tone!
@haggertysmusic Shisse! I was searching youtube for speaker tests! I was looking for the difference between the C90 and V30 speakers and your video came up in the mix. Of course you are right, you just did a tube swap. Sorry for the confusion. I still find the test flawed because of different frequency responses of the mics. The "control" is lost from a single mic test.
@neosonic66 You are quite right in what you say and I would totally agree if I were using a combo or head and cab. I however use a Boss GT effects straight into a Marshall 50/50 EL34 and I don't really want the tubes to colour the sound. I just want them to add a bit of warmth and have enough headroom for the preamp to sound how it sounds. I know what you mean though, and I also like my little Peavey Bravo for that very reason (2x EL84).
@tsunx4 My thoughts exactly. Too bad you can't have both and change via a foot switch. Kinda like the fasel inductor switch on certain wah pedals these days. We'll have to wait some more for that one.
@sonofmickel
The two mics never moved only the tubes. It's a very comma practice to close mic the amp with a dynamic mic " SM57" and then put a condenser mic further back "but be careful about keeping it in phase"
@srvledoux9 You should contact the amp builder to make sure you can put EL34's in the amp without modification. If you can, why not try it out?
One thing I like about he 6l6 distorted is that they seem to maintain the full spectrum of the different frequencies. The EL's sound more ballsy but there is some frequency loss IMO
haha sweet bit of marco Sfogli's theres hope in there dude!!
ah the vintage 30 and EL34 - match made in heaven
Definitely more midrange punch from the EL34s, and slightly more bass from the 6L6s. Good demo, thanks.
Hello Haggertys Music! You can get a vintage tone with this amp? Sounds really good? When using a 2x12 cabinet with Celestion G12H that would make it sound more vintage? Thank you!
I recently purchased this amp. I got the Head and 4X12 V-30 Cab, as well as the 1X12 combo.
I'm doing EL34 in my personal 1X12 Combo.
Thank you video editors and DP's and especially to the video talent guitarist in this video. (it's necessary to have guitar talent like this to do ANY proper demo.
Did you succumb to the variac mode as per Mesa Boogie suggested operation , or did you stick with full power mode ?
The 6l6 has better low but el34 is littlebit clearer and has better high-end. Thanks for the good comparison!
@richmondjames1 I think the audio is fine over youtube if you listen on decent speakers, and honestly, I don't feel there is a huge difference in sound between power tubes in this amp, and that is accurately conveyed in this video.
@marvenmema You're very welcome. We have new videos every week!
Just one I wish somebody would play a tele through channel 1 set to the "tweed" setting using 6L6 tubes doing some typical Roy Buchanan kind of playing.
wow 6l6 sounds pretty good with deep bottom end
to my ears the 34s were waaaayyyyy sweeter for the cleans & moderate gain, but those 6l6s, tightened right up on the riffs & made those lead notes sing, nice job!
@fretbuzz59 Thanks man! On some of our videos I've gotten a little windy! :-) I try not to, but MAN it can be hard!
I like them both for different reasons. I would be nice if there was a way to have both installed and have he ability to switch between the 2. The 6L6 seems a bit warmer on the clean, thicker on the crunch and high gain. The EL 34 seems thinner and slight brighter on all channels. This isn't a bad thing it's a what tool works for what your trying to do.
i prefer the 6L6 for the clean channel... sounds great!
Damn, wasn't expecting much difference, but the 6L6 definitely sounds more natural and full.
both sound great but they are definitely different sounds. I'm partial to 6L6s myself but could easily fall in love with an EL34 amp.
If you can't hear the difference, try again with some good headphones. It's pretty drastic when you get the full sound.
I have a Mark V. I prefer the El34 for almost all settings. The difference is slight but, the El34 sound harmonically richer to me and feel just a bit better.
I thought the Mark IV mode sounded just a bit cold with 6l6's as well.
@akettviking Honestly, I'm not convinced it's UA-cam. Listening to the full quality audio, the differences are subtle. Even sitting right in front of the amp, the differences are subtle, at least IMHO! I personally don't hear a night/day difference in this amp when changing out power tubes... but that's just me!
It's just taste. I had 6L6's in my Krank rev1 but I modded it for EL34's and now it has more bite, it's thighter and has more of a lower mid punch
micd up its tricky to spot the difference IMO. but when you're in the room I'm sure it has a totally different feel. My dual rec came to life with el-34s but its a mid scooped amp and 34s boost mids. However the Mark is a mid driven amp anyway so I would think 6l6 would help define it in the low end. just my thoughts on the matter until I can afford a mark myself lol.
messed up i like both and would use for different music 6l6 for southern rock el34 for blues,funk
@1234ibanez Coloring the sound in the power amp stage is where the magic really happens in a tube amp in my opinion. It's all personal taste, but I'm a fan of really driving my amp with power tube distortion. The coloration due to the EL-34's is what makes a Plexi sound so good for example, it's not the 12AX7's in the pre. I feel like I get a much tighter bass response and more pleasant distortion with low gain in the pre, and slamming the power tubes.
what needs to be shown is the setting for each to see how they eq'ed and such, just a suggestion
6l6 my preference! great sound! el 34 more deflated l for Mark v! also it depends on the type of guitar that uses.! for fender 6l6 ....for gibson el34. thanks for this video.
What about response? I mean lots of combinations of power tubes could sound similar. But for me it comes down to how the amp responds to my touch. There are certain places on the neck of my guitar that I get a sweet set of overtones and natural harmonics based on how I play, pick attack etc. Different gear may not produce those subtleties whereas to the listeners different amps might sound alike. But to the player the responsiveness may or may not be there depending on the amp.
generally speaking I find a comparison video that plays a full riff then changes sound easier to compare rather than changing sound mid riff. Play the same thing twice , one time for each sound.
I m planning to change the Tubes in my Marshall AFD 100 , because there in for more than 3 years and heavy usage ,
So this Vid is very intresting for me , its Possible to put different kinds of Powertubes in and Auto Bias them , its easy as changing underwear :-), , ok the 6L6 Tubes got More Balls and sound better .
Great vid and Playing Dude ( Oh Mark IV is The BEST Amp ..)
6L6 for Cleans..EL34 for Dirt. What to do, what to do, what to do! Great demo!!
can I also change the 6L6 to 6v6 in these mesa amps?
@srvledoux9
If it's an adjustable bias and you have a bias probe or know where to check plate voltage then go ahead.
IN CH3 6L6 IS NICE
Differences are subtle. For me amp sound has more to do with circuit design, components, etc. The subtleties have already been mentioned in other posts, I won't reiterate.
vai , beatles, then i don't know the other songs...only slight variation to my ears b/n valves both sounded ok
to me the EL34s sounded more snappy punch in the higher gain functions but the 6L6 had a fuller sound on the clean, pretty close though
Nice comparison, man. Very useful to do it as you have done, instantly back-to-back without any pause between. I could really hear the difference: I closed my eyes and could often (not always) tell exactly when it changed. I like them both! The 6L6’s sound more crisp and articulate, but the breakup of the EL34’s is smoother and more pronounced. But on the downside, the 6L6’s can sound a little cold, and the EL34’s can sound a little mushy and indistinct. Is there such a thing as an amp that has both-a pair of 6L6 and a pair of EL34, running simultaneously? Hmmm...
+fzzzzzzzy a little late but as you probably know by now one of those would be the mesa boogie road king 2
+fzzzzzzzy You can do El34, and 6l6gc combo in the Hughes and Kettner Coreblade according to the manual..."Coreblade saves sounds straight from the amp to a USB stick so touring artists can travel ... TSC even lets you operate EL34 and 6L6GC tubes simultaneously!" I'm really tempted to buy some, and try it out soon, because I've been thinking of rounding that top end presence a bit, from the El34, and I'm curious if it would tame it, but still allow some of the El 34 chime and presence. I wonder if it matter which set of tubes came first?
fzzzzzzzy a little late of a reply, but check out the egnater rebel series
@mazsenior
Agreed 100%, to my ears the 6L6's sound a tad fuller and smoother for the clean stuff but the EL34's have more edge and bite for the driven stuff. I guess the only solution is to have a pair loaded with each type and run the guitar via a splitter-box into both! Just need a lottery win now.
@akettviking Nope. The Vintage 30 is only rated for 60 watts, but Mesa/Boogie will ship them with the V30 if it is requested. You just have to watch out for how hard you drive it. I like to stock both the standard mark v with the C90's, and a few with V30's. I think the V30's sound so much better!
I have this amp, I almost sent this amp back until my rep told me to try it with EL34s, it is a very mean amp now.
Will 6V6 tubes work on the Mark V?
i like el34 ..but then im thinking for amp wich will be more classical instruments
@haggertysmusic I thought the 6L6s had a bit more bass (most noticeable in the clean channel), and sounded brighter. The EL34s had a more rounded, rolled-off treble tone. From that alone, I'd say the 6L6s sounded better, but I'm sure some minor EQ tweaking could get you where you wanted to be regardless of which tube type used.
Can't really tell what's going on on the clean as the 6l6 samples are just louder
Thumbs up for playing Petrucci's Jaws Of Life
6L6 and other beam power tetrodes always sound better than pentodes..
meh, depends on the sound you're goin for.
I have to say, when this video came on I could not tell the difference between either tubes. It was on in the background while I was messing with my pedal board cable situation. I had to watch/listen again to tell any, although very slight, changes. Which leads me to conclude that unless someone with a high tuned ear is trying to hear a difference then the average person, say the person listening to your band play perhaps, isn't going to notice at all. If these tracks were in a mix I would assume that you wouldn't be able to hear ANY difference in tube.
+Steve L There's very little difference in channel 3. The EL34s are actually a little better in channel two but just slightly. I don't know how you didn't hear the difference in channel 1 though. 6L6 tubes have a lot more bottom.
I was expecting 6L6 clean better, el34 drive before watching video. But 6L6 winner both clean and drive for me.